 It's great pleasure to be here with Jennifer Morone. She will be speaking about the future of capitalism, but she will be speaking from a very personal perspective and a very political perspective, I think. She incorporated herself. Jennifer became a company, not publicly listed yet. If there's an IPO, you'll be able to buy a share. But she is a company and I think the idea, she'll tell us better, is that you have to be a company to survive and thrive in today's capitalism. She's been working with a foundation and a movement, Radical Exchange, and around Jennifer the company, a whole ecosystem has been developing and building. There's no better way to look at that fascinating project and the way it's been turning out than to see this presentation that Jennifer is going to be leading, and then we'll be back here for questions. Jennifer. Thank you, Bruno, and thank you for coming and for, I'm very happy to be here. So I'd like to start with a little scope of what everybody thinks. How many people here like to work for free? How many people like to get paid for the work that you do? That's not even half. It's surprising. Well, actually, we're all already working for free. Every day, you create value in your lives for some of the biggest tech companies in the world and they're becoming monopolies. Now, if you were here back in 2011 at the World Economic Forum or even read their report, you would have likely heard of this issue, which they said was the digital economy and the new asset is the personal data. And the problem was identified back then that you have these contributors and you have the people that want the data and who sits in the middle but the companies and they create products and services that have become less and less of value to capture our data and then they sell those in other products to their true customers. And so when I heard about this and when Snowden came out with his revelations, I was quite disturbed. And so I did an artistic gesture as a reaction. Oops, sorry. We are all data slaves. I don't know about you, but I've had enough of being exploited. You know who's got it made? Corporations. If companies can make money from my information, information that I generate just by being alive, then so can I. I've decided to play their game with a little twist by bringing the whole process down to the individual by incorporating my identity. So my solution was to create a legal container that I could then try to collect and control my personal information from. And so I looked at the ways in which I emanated data all the ways and I went as far as I could to collect it. Here's just 25 data points showing the blinking red light is the heart rate. And it shows everything that you can collect just from a phone and maybe a Fitbit or something like that. And so that allowed me to try and do that, but also try to bring it to the market. So I cut it up into the categories that I saw we were being cut up into. But this was my provocation. This was a protest. It wasn't that this is where I think we should go. I was trying to say there's a value we're all creating and is this where we want to go? Where do we want to go? And so I started to think of alternatives because any protest needs a solution or demand and I was thinking well if everybody had to become a personal corporation we need something more collective a collective data broker and data unions and eventually five years later this thinking brought me to meet other people such as Glenn Weill who wrote the book radical markets and founded radical exchange and together we have been thinking about what these ideas would look like and with many others we want to move beyond critiquing to actual alternatives and The ideas I'm going to present here there are two of them So one will continue with data and then I'm also going to talk about voting But there are ideas that we don't think that they're exactly those that need to be implemented But that hold a sense of the broader principles that we could implement So we see data as what is created by us its life and They're uniquely forming patterns of social commitments that we create through the variety of communities that we take part in and This weaves this web of social data that is vibrant and expanding and could be so much more if there was a different structure So one part of a data dignified world is where this new type of institution So you still have a similar structure, but at the top you have what we call mids mediators of individual data and Instead of these being for-profit companies or they could be profit companies But they act like fiduciaries on the behalf of people where they can collectively bargain for us and sell our data That we deem is okay to sell that we agree and we decide and That money and services come back to us and it creates more of a closed-loop system Now to illustrate this further. I'd like to give an example of Jane Jane belongs to several mids. There's a music mid a cooking mid an energy mid and a health data mid with the music mid she Is a musician and so it's something like Spotify, but she actually is a member of it. It's not C corporation or a private company and so she makes music she received some income from that and There are listeners who pay a subscription but also receive some income from Their data analysis and then there are programmers that keep developing the platform Then she's when she's cooking she has some bots and technology in the environment and she It's kind of like having a child in the room in the kitchen with her where she's teaching it what she's doing What ingredients are and what? What are the methods that we we eat and cook? Now I want to move on to another idea. This is a second idea of voting when we have large populations like we have especially in China with many different interests one person one vote starts to break down and So we're working on this idea that comes from again Glenn Wilde who wrote a paper back in 2014 with Eric Posner and More recently we've been working with Santiago Siri of democracy earth to create an interface and It's called quadratic voting and how it works is instead of having one person one vote You get a number of credits So say you get a hundred credits and you have ten decisions to vote on every vote every credit Every vote is a quadratic cost of the credits, so if you have one Vote you spend one token If you want to vote twice on something the same thing you have to spend four And if you want to vote three times you have to spend nine credits And what's really important is that it it slows you down it slows the process down It makes you think about what really matters because if you want to yell as much as you want of the around one issue You can do that, but it's going to cost you and you're it's not going to matter as much so it's to incentivize spreading out what you care about and It was used recently in Colorado The legislature the Democratic legislature used it to vote on their spending bill, which they had 40 million dollars to spend on a hundred 120 million in requests so they were also voting anonymously and privately and They received more nuance in what people felt and the Representative said there was better signal with less noise and they were able to capture people's intensity on what mattered to them So now again, these are just a couple of the ideas and designs and like I said earlier, it's not Exactly about these designs. These are ways to start getting you to think Broadly move past the problems move past the critiquing and going over and over again and thinking about alternatives Some of the other ideas that we're working on relate to moving beyond private property to diversely share property To a novel approach with public funding again a quadratic way of finance and other means of increasing human increasing returns for fair efficient and complex ways and We aren't the only ones hungry for change Just in a year. We have 150 chapters around the world. There's a few starting in in China just this week and Together they're committed to embracing markets and technology to build bold visions that reflect our diversely shared lives And we believe that together we can be more prosperous and things can be more efficient and That we could grow our cooperative society So I want to end this on a deep Chinese Philosophers words that capture a bit the spirit of what we believe I Don't know how to say this in Chinese. I'm sorry Shelling junk is the philosopher and so this is close This is open Together they make flapping wings and lead these two together or leads to change So like the Chinese culture that the interaction of the Yin moon and Yang the sun the dong Which is motion and Jing motion lists are the push and pull that create new things and this is what we are Striving for thank you very much Well, I'm hoping we'll see some flapping of wings now between the audience in Jennifer questions comments Who wants to start? Hi there. I had a question a lot of the people that I hear on my Internet feed who are upset with capitalism are extremely emotional about it And there are some people who are willing to sit down and kind of think out a complicated formula for how to fix these problems a lot Of people want to bash the whole system to pieces What sort of ideas do you have for sort of a bringing? I don't know if the bringing together is the right way or how to deal with the Amount of emotion that comes in from some people on this issue But also trying to use it for a good outcome at the end. Yeah, well, we're actually With radical exchange we bring together Various groups, so we have activists and government policy makers people from entrepreneurship and tech artists as well and communicators and people in academia and they They're across the political spectrum and they they vary in there you know, I'm maybe more on the left and others are more on the right and libertarian and We don't talk really about politics though. We don't talk in that way We talk about what we fear. We talk about what we want and we talk about logical ways to To move forward but also with that's why the arts is very important with a sensitivity and still that critique critical nature of We can't just implement something because then that does create a feeling of blowing it up If it's just going to be a technological solution. We feel like it really needs to be We're all together. We're all here together at this moment and we need to work together So I think that since we lead with people and we don't lead with technology as a solution That I think that creates that and by being so inclusive That also helps. Thank you. You started by We start by discussing who like to who want to work with without being paid and It seems as we were unanimous to say that we would like to be paid for what we are doing And we know by history that women have been doing a lot to support the capitalism for free How do you integrate this in your system because all the care work around the world all the Bringing up the family, etc. Is a huge work on paid work So how you know you integrate that now precisely a lot of the work That is done and highly paid is actually not very useful people like mothers and even cleaners should be paid more and if If there's something like universal basic income or something like where people get data dividends The work that people don't need to do will drop and the work. That's more valued will be supported I also took care of my mother when she was dying and that's Not anything comparable to I think child raising, but it's another thing that I think Needs to be valued so we don't have a price and I don't know if we should move to a price base of these These functions of society but acknowledging them and treating them as just as important or more important Than a lot of jobs that we spend our time doing so that is coupled with automation then and moving towards a future where We have to redistribute the value that's being gained and being concentrated And so those are mechanisms. I don't have the exact one but data as Labor is what we were calling it but data dignity is one of the ways to try and redistribute that value The private property that I said like a different kinds of taxation harbinger of taxation where there's self-assessment on property If you self-assess too high it goes into a higher tax that you have to pay that goes back to the community so there's value constantly being generated issues being concentrated and Breaking that back up and sharing it I think is Is how we support those roles I Thanks for the presentation two questions You talk about the quadratic I've had exponential to grant geometrical way to to have more intensity less noise Is there really data backing up that it's the square formula who works? Well, that's one question and secondly one of the most fundamental issues we have right now is those who feel disenfranchised Don't vote isn't there risk don't vote. They don't participate Isn't there a risk that by doing that you're actually just increasing those who are either angry or who want to Hack the system. I mean, I know in Europe for example The participation rate is what is going to be correlated to the rate of extreme rights If there's a lot of participation goes down if it's Or less participation you have higher extremes. Yeah, is that really solving that is there some data backing it up? It sounds very attractive, but How much data is behind it? I guess part of the importance is to activate people to become participants and to build ways that The ideas the push is coming from the bottom up instead of the top down So we're also working with the chapters creating an infrastructure so that they can actually The ideas come from below and that their voices They're the ones working on it and to kind of diminish the state as much as possible. There is statistics research backing up that and I didn't show the diagram But what you have with one person one voter some other ones is it creates this you or w? So you have the extremes which might be leading to a lot of the problems we have now and then with quadratic voting You just had more of a wave So you couldn't use it really I think for it wouldn't be the right solution for a two-person election but for Do you support gun rights or do you want to? Keep abortion, you know these kinds of things it would be able to show people might feel like their voices are heard more as well so Again, like I said the ideas are meant to be pushed forward They're not implemented and to be tested and tried and and developed further, but it's the the principles of Making people active Participants together for a society that we share It would be interesting if some of you actually want to Defend the data economy as it exists now. Yeah That would be interesting to see your question. So don't be shy. There's a question here So I work in politics. So I'm interested in your your idea around quadratic voting and My my concern with it is that I think actually we have some version of it right now and it's actually to blame for a lot of the Inability to get things done so to use your two examples of gun rights and abortion Where I'd say we have what you're talking about is that? and The NRA and Planned Parenthood for just to give examples on one side respectively these two issues Actually serve as amplifiers for those who feel intensely about a particular about those respective issues where your speech is Magnified through your donations to these organizations Labor unions are the same way corporations play a similar role in politics through Fundraising the problem with that though is that there seems to be kind of perfect alignment between intensity of feeling and a kind of irreconcilable position on a certain thing so that 80% of Americans want common-sense gun laws But the 20% who feel very very strongly About not having any of those things have been able to amplify their voice in in a way that I think is kind of analogous to what You're suggesting through voting that they do it through donations So how do you how do you make sure that you're not actually making the the challenge of extremism? Even worse Yeah, that's a good question I Personally think that there should be a cap And that well these votes these credits should are meant to be non-fungible so you can't trade them You can't collect them or hoard them either because if you have a an election for gun laws Every few years and you save them then so with what you're do you still have the microphone? With what you're saying How how is it that so There are 80% you said in the same population that are voting on the same thing So like so that's 80% of Americans think that there ought to be common-sense gun safety laws But it's like not their number one issue there. Maybe they're primarily take a suburban mom right she cares about a lot of different things But if you were to ask her do you think we ought to have background check she'd say yeah But but the thing is she's not donating right like to a cause the people who don't want any gun restrictions Are gonna give a hundred dollars to the NRA that money then amplifies Right there their voice Structurally through the organization same with like a teachers union a lot of parents may want a different policy But the teachers through collective Donations to their pack are able to get Their agenda push in the problem then is that that then doesn't align with a moderating compromising position because the organizations willing to to kind of collect and compound that Political interests are the ones who have the least interest in that issue being resolved because their actual Their sustainability is an organization relies on the conflict. Yeah, I know I don't have an answer I think that's something that needs to be Tested out. I don't know if it's about adding Figuring out with the other issues those people care about and put placing them next to the vote But that's that's one thing that we we say it might not be perfect for that like those two comparisons having moms and gun laws, but what other ones can you put in there and what how how can you doesn't need to be much more local and then like compiled or I Think the national level is probably not the best way to take that vote and You know who are most affected at the moment in the public sphere our children are very worried about going to school So how do you? How do you say, you know if you're Want more funding for your child's school, but you want them to be safe in school. So I don't know I think in in America where it It would have to be tested I think I want to go back to the data question. So you started the presentation talking about We're all working for free, you know for companies like Facebook and Google who generate a lot of revenue off of our data So would you agree that the the dominance of companies like like those two are a sign of capitalism gone wrong and Another question is how do we gain ownership of our data? Or win it back. Do we just withdraw from the system and just kind of delete all our social accounts? What's your view? I think that there's a combination of policy and Yeah, like a Limitation on what these companies can do with the new Institution like cooperatives or data cooperatives that would act like fiduciaries, you know before the financial planners could do what they want until There were regulations put in place or a system that they had to act on people's best interests now We have a choice so whether we choose to go to one of them or not, but I Think Google and Facebook are a sign of capitalism gone wrong I think again, it's just like when there were the rubber barons and we had to break them up And they're holding on to dear life for you know the model that exists and if we go further they They are getting prepared to start paying us a little dividend here and there But I I don't think that's the right way forward in terms of us all being on welfare to Facebook or Google or You know they're going to become nations and Looking at the havoc that's been caused particularly by Facebook. I think there's too much susceptibility to being Manipulated or not our best interest when you have shareholders We have another question here But let me just ask a quick question because I think we understand the quadratic voting very well by now But how about the mediators of individual data? How would you work in practice do they sell the data that that people provide do they use it? Do they distribute a dividend after using it? Can you describe quickly how you see that? Well, there are different mechanisms for different types of data and how that would be structured So for the example of health that I didn't go into Maybe that would be you hold your data and you commit it or the the mid holds the health data For a certain community and it could be a local community. It could be a community of people with the same Genetic mutation it could be my parent was sick with this So I'm also and you know all of this information already goes to researchers and then those that goes to pharmaceutical companies So there's this transaction happening All it would be is that this mid would be the only one to maybe sell the data But they can't sell it unless the members that belong to the data that belong to the mid Grant permission that it can so you're you're in this relationship as a participant in this greater economy and you have a say in what is being sold what is not and How it is and what it goes to so it might still end up With the pharmaceutical company, but maybe that mechanism would be that you're paid or that health services are paid or That people receive royalties if you know then you have to get into patents, which is another what idea with the private property of Breaking into that as well. So I'm a global shaper. My name is Alicia. I'm from Italy, but I live and work in China. So I've seen how democracy or a more Top-down society work in different ways. Yeah I think I have a voice because I belong to communities like the global shapers But most of the people in my generation don't and what I've been thinking about is that When we have like social media or we have big corporations and governments They all give an opinion to people rather than listening to people So if we if we have a way to let the people communicate with us is usually through a complaint It's either like protesting in the streets or complaining on the website And I make it hard for you to complain or like on social media We see like the biggest threat like always like very Hasty complaints, right? So but I think as the people the thing that people naturally do is Communicate with each other to form opinions and a lot of people feel they don't have a voice in capitalism because As a design researcher, I've done this I've been interviewed people and they're like, oh, yeah I use this but I don't really need it or like I use this This is the only thing I can buy or I have this government and I don't really it don't I don't understand if there's a way to Instead of like even like monetizing monetizing on the data that we give to this company Is there a way to engage in more proactively the people so that they feel that they Can not only just give their opinion when they have to complain but give their opinion when they want to propose something Yeah, I think that's definitely something that we should be building And I don't think enough space for that exists and we have to create it so that's That's one thing that we're trying to do like I said with the chapters and building that infrastructure for the voices to be heard And then also it's more local government connecting them so that they the government goes to work with these communities But when it's such a big level like national level and the companies as well, I agree. It's not We don't have that way and that's something that we really need to create So I hope running out of time a very quick question Jennifer People try to find a word to define data some people say it's oil some people say it's capital some people say Labor what what is your word if you want a synonym of data in today's economy? What word would you pick just one word? Well, we say labor but more of the Hannah Arendt Version of labor that it's human activity and that is separate from work. Some of it is work Some of it is can be capital when it's generated by a company itself Some of it is more like resources that flow, but we think of it as labor Thank you very much fascinating discussion I think Jennifer was going to be here for a few minutes to talk to people. Thank you for coming and have a good day