 Hey friends, welcome what you're watching behind the scenes divine intimacy radio And we're gonna start the show. I think we'll just jump in. What do you think? Yeah, it's part two Mike set go This is Danis Stephanie Burke. Welcome to divine intimacy radio your radio haven of rest your hermitage of the heart Your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw upon the wisdom of the saints To navigate the tumult of this difficult life with joy and peace and patience And prayer and prayer sometimes patience For you, this is part right part two of the series on Heretics and prayer and just to be clear The church is the only one who has the ability to formally call anyone a heretic and I'm not it's not coming from me The first guy we talked about in the first series was Miguel Molinos who was Actually actually condemned as a heretic That's why that's the title of the the series, but don't don't misunderstand me I don't have the authority to designate anyone as an heretic. That's good because I really don't want you carrying that cross I want you to have that authority now, and I you know, that doesn't mean we don't talk about You know issues, you know and problematic texts and things and and I will say, you know We tend to we we love to be on the positive side of things that we have thousands and thousands of posts at spiritualdirection.com and a very tiny percentage are more like this show And we rarely ever name names, but I thought today Got a lot of questions in about different authors on prayer, and I thought, you know, sometimes it's important I think to have clarity. I think a lot of times people look to Quote unquote the berks for clarity just tell us how do we navigate this in a way that keeps us safe They desire it. Yeah, because so much of the info out there can be really squishy. Yeah, because people don't want to be clear Right. So well, let's jump into the questions The first one is what is this new mindfulness thing I Watched a video by a priest named father Ian Van Huisen and he seems to think it's a good thing. Is it? the answer is In in 2000 foot tall letters and oh, it's not a good thing I know father Ian. He's a Nice guy nice, you know, sweet-spirited priest He and I have had in-depth conversations about this in the past but unfortunately he got caught up in a resurgence of the The eight-fold path of Buddhism Attempting to integrate it with Catholic teaching and this goes back to a false Really a rejection and I'm not accusing father Ian of this I'm just saying Fundamentally you have to reject what Jesus said when he said don't pray like the pagans to do this I mean, it's just not that complicated. The other thing is I don't Jesus doesn't need Buddha to Give you the peace that he promised you He's the one who came to set the captives free You know, you know, it's fundamentally at the core of that I think is in our society and I think in our flesh in our weakness We want something that's just gonna be easy, right? I do this and it's gonna give me a result Right, which is is really central. I mean it's based in self-reliance, right this self-reliance I need to control God. I need to tame God. I need God to do what I want him to do He's not, you know, I feel unseen unheard. He's nowhere for me. Therefore, I'm gonna go create right this encounter with God rather than By the means the Lord has given us in church and the doctors of the church humbling ourselves picking up our cross and and learning to be holy as we walk through prayer and Allowing in making ourselves little waiting for the Lord to come down upon us and Purify us and have a real encounter with him, right? So it's it's about control and This taming of the relationship. I think it's interesting. It's interesting theory Yeah, though rather than getting into the any details on mindfulness The best book written on it is called a Catholic guide to mindfulness by Susan Brinkman who's a journalist and It has a forward by dr. Anthony Clark and the the book was also reviewed by dr. Anthony Lillis dr. Lillis has been the The academic dean of three seminaries and he's the academic dean of the Aval Institute dr. Clark is is has a PhD in Buddhist studies and And Carl Olson of Catholic World Report as well is notable in his study and writing on Buddhism so this thing is a super well researched Summary, I frankly I could I know all the claims on the other side and I could care less I mean, they're just spurious. It's just I you know, is it well-intended. I hope so It's very expensive, you know a lot of money to be made that always makes me suspicious But the bottom line is mindfulness is not the same thing as the sacrament of the present moment It is not a proper to integrate these things with the Catholic faith and if you read this book and and you Really are want to be dead center in the Catholic Church. You won't mess with this stuff It's it's I even can't I even had contact with a guy Who actually ended up having to go to an actress this because of his practice of quote mindfulness and so I mean It's really it. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah, no good. It's really an attempt to Catholicize Buddhism it is I mean, it's the same thing as it's a replay of centering prayer It's like oh, I see something in the non-christian east. No strata te says whatever is good, you know And other religions should be should be, you know praised, you know, which I mentioned on the last show That's not all no strata te says it says that these things are only a reflection of the ray if they are true and The real sources in Jesus the way the truth and the light and I'm quoting the passage No one comes to the father, but through me. So yeah Mindfulness phase right now crazes a replay of centering prayer It's it's a trying to integrate non-christian eastern spirituality with the Catholic spirituality, you know And I just can't say it enough. Jesus doesn't need Buddha To give you the peace that he promises that he died for that he gave you this the entire sacramental economy for You know, all that we need in the church to come to peace Is in in the church and I'm not excluding sound Catholic psychology Based on real science not popular You know goofy pseudo non-christian eastern junk Yeah, and I mean I would really challenge folks that if they're very very serious about encountering the lord Take up into the deep watch the series Implemented into your life study discernment of spirits and do it with fervor and you will encounter the living god amen You will encounter him. I can assure you that and what she's talking about the end of the deep series My book is is sold a huge number of copies and people really loved it and said, you know, we speak all around the country talking about it and Someone came to us and said would you please, you know create a video series? So I don't have to wait for you to come to my parish or whatever And so we did last year and and I it really turned out beautifully It's uh, it was very expensive to produce but We decided to make it free. So we just want many people to pray. Yeah So spiritualdirection.com is where you'll find it. Yeah, I think there's a little banner still a little banner that pops up on that Yeah, all right Um If you had to pick just three books. Oh a positive question. Thanks be jesus If you had to pick just three books on prayer that you would recommend to help anyone to pray What would they be now? I'm I'll do mine and you can do yours. Maybe they'll be the same. I don't know Into the deep the one I wrote because and I wrote it May sound self-serving, but I actually wrote it because there's a lot of good books on lexiodovina By tim gray and these other good, you know, reliable authors There wasn't one though that was designed for Exactly. What do I do once I set the book down? How do I how do I practice it in the most practical sense? So into the deep would be number one the second one would be Prayer a great means of salvation and perfection which I helped to bring back into print Through sophia institute press. I wrote the forward for it by saying alphonsus agree It has the best arguments in the history of all humanity In print on why mental prayer is so is necessary for your salvation He actually taught if you don't practice mental prayer, you're not making it So that book and then the third would be the better part by father john bartunek Which isn't necessarily a book about prayer But it's a book that leads you through every single gospel passage In four volumes and teach it and helps you to encounter christ the teacher christ the friend christ in my life You know and really Appropriate the scriptures and really get to know jesus through scripture. So those would be the three Um, there's others like father jack filib time for god, you know, that sort of thing. They're awesome. What what's your three? Well, you took all about the books of prayers. I mean, that's all the books on prayer that I would have picked. I think Um, that would be where I'd go, but I can trump all of that. Yeah and say holy scripture Well, that's into the deep right, but I but what I'm saying is Going to the lord it's it's living It's transformative and so in order to employ Into the deep and prayer and the gospel of In the better part and those studies is getting a great catholic bible And utilizing it. Um, it will change your life. It's living He's living he is the word made flesh And so we encounter him in it. It's extraordinarily beautiful and I know, you know I've had some events recently and I've said bring your bible, you know to the retreat As I did a retreat for women and you know, it's it's always kind of a hit or miss I don't know if everybody's going to show up with the bible because a lot of people don't actually have a really good catholic bible You need a good catholic bible Get one. Yeah, you know, there's a great one published by uh, sofi and stupress catholic readers bible I think it's what it's called and and it it took out they took out all of the Numbers and stuff like that. You can read it like a novel. Yeah, and it's actually pretty helpful. It's a unique new way of New I mean it's the way it was originally all those numbers and divisions weren't in there in the greek And the original manuscripts, but it does kind of declutter it a bit And I found it but there's something really beautiful about having a leather Yes, right bible with the pages and all that One other is a divine intimacy divine intimacy father gabriel st. Mary which is why this radio station Right this radio podcast is called divine intimacy. Yeah, and our marriage is called divine intimacy because it's a transformative Retreat yeah marriage retreats. Um So it is transformative the thing about that text is it's a daily meditation on spiritual theology I mean it is just but it is the best ever compiled. Yeah I just challenge people to pick it up and read that one little passage a day and not be Especially for really affected for a land and seriously surgical seasons. It's really I would brace myself every day I would turn the page when I when I was you know Committing to that because I turned the page to see what the new theme was. Yeah, and it was like Oh, no the theme's on humility because it would just break through in my day. So it's beautiful So ewtn's religious catalog course is always trustworthy to find these kinds of books spiritualdirection.com as well When we get back from the break, we'll talk about how do we know if we're practicing contemplative prayer or not? When your markets that go this is danis devaney burk. Welcome back to divine intimacy radio talking about prayer ticks heretics False teachings about prayer. Thankfully the last few questions have been pretty positive Um, and I think we've got some more positive questions. I think or at least I don't have to talk I don't like naming names But uh, which we did in our first and second, um first three segments Uh, how do I know if I'm practicing practicing contemplative prayers? So you you touched on that was it the last show or the previous segment was the last show So let's define contemplation. Shall we okay? So this is out of my book. Um Uh navigating the interior life. So contemplative prayer infused contemplative prayer Is a supernatural gift that originates completely outside of our will or ability In god by which a person becomes freely absorbed in god Producing a real awareness desire and love for him this often gentle Delightful and sometimes nonsensible like encounter Can yield special insights into the things of god and results in a deeper tangible desire to love god and neighbor in thought word Indeed It is important to note that infused contemplation is a state that can be prepared for But cannot in any way be produced by the will Or desire of a person through methods or ascetical practices, right? So to To your point when it was you talked about it earlier It's only something you can live a contemplative life Which is but which is what we call in the community of apostolate VA what we live which is prayer and a ceaseless it's it's Nurturing silence into your day Seeking more of god seeking a rhythm of life Having a specific plan on how to pray and how to pursue Holiness right rather than just kind of winging it And it avails ourselves of all the graces that the lord wants to give us. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's just worth repeating that the contemplative prayer The way you begin is the way you begin in prayer to dispose yourself is through meditation Or discursive Christian meditation, which I was teaching my book into the deep daily a specific time and place Going through getting to know learning the life of Jesus talking to Jesus about his life receiving wisdom from him And making changes as you Experience the need for changes. Go ahead. Yeah, I mean some people can hear Oh the same exact time and think of it as something rigid or whatever And what that does for us when we get so I like to think of it as first fruits so That It was transformative to me to decide what I was going to give to god What time I was going to commit to him and show up for that time every day And because our life was so busy, we were both working, you know in outside jobs Then I needed to do that before the children got up before the world was noisy before my brain was too noisy as well And so I would get up very early. I still do to this day And I give that time to the lord and what that does is It makes my body my friend And it also says lord, I've committed this time to you. It's and I'm giving I'm availing myself of what you want to give To me because I know your promises are true and I'm committing by an act of a ceaseless By showing up every day in that time. And so what that does is it makes prayers so much easier Once you get past the problem of getting up every day at the same time Showing up is really transformative at the same every day. It's not about being rigid. It's about availing yourself And and committing that time and not taking it back right and so if you're in If you're doing that daily for several years You're you're going to confession once a month minimum You're at mass regularly. You're not you're fighting against mortal and venial sin You will begin to conquer habitual sin. It is normative And you will find yourself At a place where you can no longer meditate anymore Where it's too difficult and it's in it just it you know But never that phase never happens because it's always difficult But where you can't do it at all and now i'm talking john of the cross teaching That happens after you've gotten rid of habitual mortal sin usually after the rid of habitual venial sin And you're in this transitional state between the purgative and the illuminative way And the lord begins to change your prayer and you're you're able to be more silent with him and that sort of thing That's the precursor the prayer of simplicity. It's called is a precursor to Contemplative prayer, but contemplative prayer can only be prepared for and you can desire it to But there is no method and contrary to The teaching of the centering prayer movement. There's no method that you can get there and in fact Back to sort of the prayer tick thing if anyone says you can do contemplation By a method other than Ignatian prayer they're Lying to you and it's false teaching and it's not orthodox. Okay Um, my parish doesn't provide any formation on the deeper spiritual life Um, uh, what are the resources you recommend that I could pursue in this area? Well, one we've mentioned a bunch of times the into the recent the new film series We've done called into the deep which you can find out on spiritualdirection.com at no cost Uh, uh, though it's a beautifully produced Um What do you call a seminar on prayer? It's like serious five Half hour somewhere in there and then with questions and answers. There's a little booklet. I think you can get it for free even Yeah, download You can do it with a small group. You can do it in your parish. You can do it individually too. Yep. Yeah All completely of course orthodox and rooted in the teachings of the church I think that's you know, that's one resource another is um, some of the courses that we have at the avalan Avala Institute are amazing. I'm presently teaching as I mean we're recording this I don't know when people are going to hear the show, but foundations of prayer and union with god I teach it regularly for the avalan Institute And it goes through um, a pretty in-depth Teaching on understanding prayer from the very beginnings to deeper contemplative prayer. Yeah, and there's the third one What's that? Apostoli v. A. Oh, yeah, that's right. Um Apostoli v. A is our community We're 3000 plus strong and I don't know 50 60 countries around the world And there are small groups all over the place canada australia There are free resources free resources free courses there too. Yeah on prayer free courses on various things And and community to share and discuss this with as well Both online and individually depending on where you are in the country Yeah, we do we do free formation on the second and fourth saturdays Almost every single second and fourth saturday barring some unusual circumstance For an hour and it's always on the interior life right now We're going through with uh, I think uh, we we Sign up was like 7 000 people. Yeah, uh are going through with us through introduction to the devout life St. Francis the sales doctor of the church. Yeah, and so I don't know what we'll do after that But we'll keep going And uh, people really love it. So those are just some options. So apostoli va.org spiritualdirection.com avala-institute.com Those are some great resources um And you know, I I'd strongly recommend you help your parish I mean, you know, you can get the into the deep series and do it yourself. Yeah, I mean There's other people like you my my deacon dad st. Howard And ross went to mexico is leading Folks through this program right now for their latin series. They're doing it every friday. That's great um another kind of parish question how do How it's worded funny again I hope I don't make people feel bad if they word something by there's missing words Well last night during class. I was skipping words too How do I find how do I find folks who care about the spiritual life and really following Jesus to the full my parish feels dead I'm frustrated and feeling alone That's desolation one You got to fight that your parish probably isn't dead I you just probably haven't found the people who are like you every parish has got people like you in them And the enemy one says in that desolation to be isolated. Yeah to really feel like there's nobody like me I'm alone and and that's a real invitation to renounce that and and seek the lord and say, okay Lord, show me show me where my place is show me my tribe. Yeah, help me to find my tribe. I love that term and and so as you dive into these resources Um, especially with that bustle eva because there's there's community there Then as you draw near to the lord you will start to look up and find That there are others and you will you it just happens. It's a really beautiful thing Yeah, and I think, you know, st. John on the cross has this beautiful saying Where you find no love put love And I would say where you find no fervency put fervency where you find no orthodoxy put orthodoxy Where you find no reverence put reverence, you know So for for this person I would say Uh, I would and you know sound self-serving, but it isn't a product and we don't charge for it So get the end to the deep series. Do it. Yeah talk with your pastor And do it at the parish and and note who's there and then afterward Say, hey, would you like to start a small gospel encounter group? Right and we can even train we have free training In a full-time person. She's an awesome human being named Kathleen Bloodlow Who is dedicated to helping people start small groups and we don't charge for it Yeah, and and to that end because somebody will go, I can't run a group. I can't do that You know the thing is is the materials are so easy. You don't have to teach anything You don't have to worry about that. That's all in the video series All you have to do is get permission and see if you're you know, your priest may not know about it And as he looks into it, he might lean in as well And you might find all of a sudden that there are people around you that are hungering for more and need Need somebody else to bring it up and why would a priest want to do this, you know, we Ministered to a lot of priests through in and all of them are overworked. I at least everyone I've ever met Maybe they're all just from diocese with two to two few priests. I don't know but It's a fact that if you can make a 1 shift in your parish Of the number of people who are dedicated You it it dramatically affects parish income. It dramatically affects parish participation all of that and there's no better way to bring about conversion In your parish than introducing people to mental prayer because that introduces them to jesus And that can have nothing but a good effect So if you want to light your parish on fire, of course first and always foremost is adoration And and really reverent liturgy But after that starting little mental prayer groups And if you're a pastor and you want to reach out to us at apostolate vie We'll give you free resources to do that That's why we exist. I mean the abla foundation everything we do Is to help repurpose the catholic mystical tradition to the church to support and pray for priests and and to help the people of god Come to know him so that they are changed and they change the world around them That's what we do all day every day and we want to help So feel free to reach out to us at apostolate via spiritualdirection.com And uh, be holy would you we need you the world needs you Okay Until next time may the god of peace make you perfect in holiness May he preserve you whole and entire spirit soul and body irreproachable at the coming of our lord Jesus christ amen