 I think the podcast world gives you a lot of freedoms that radio doesn't, I mean on a very basic literal level things like you know an episode doesn't have to be 27 minutes 48 seconds whatever the BBC limit is and you know you can have as many episodes as you want and you can tell your story in a slightly different way and you know you don't have to kind of adhere to kind of the censorship of not having swearing and things like that. You know so I think I think it's interesting for anybody who's making audio I think now that the field has opened up massively I feel like it's there's a slightly kind of wild west quality to it I think it's still the podcast world is still even now trying to work out what it is and particularly how to make money out of it. You said that when you had the idea for haunted you kind of knew immediately that this wouldn't be right for radio what was it about it that didn't feel right? Yeah well I mean I think that often one of the because it's a question that you're asked a lot about what is radio what is podcasting and how do they differ and I think one of the things is that a story that would be told in one half hour on radio four or even perhaps as a part of a half hour can be told across many episodes as a podcast I think there's not only kind of like an ability to be more niche in podcasting there's a desire for it you know like people lap up things about the niche and the specific the minutiae and you know just these interesting stories I mean look at Estown you know which for me is and for most people probably is one of the greatest podcasts ever made you know that that story of this man and his life where not a great deal happens but at the same time it's hugely kind of epoch-changingly brilliant you know that that really wouldn't have ever been commissioned on radio four I don't think it wouldn't be they I just don't think there would ever have been a perception that that would fill you know time on radio four you know so I think that for someone where you feel like you've got stories to tell that you know you want to take the time over the podcast is great you know on radio you probably have to really frame it around something like a program at Halloween about you know why do people see ghosts or you know it would be a one-off thing about you know sort of as part of a sort of psychology season about why we see ghosts if you just said I want to do a series talking to people about the fact they've seen ghosts I think that it would be perceived as too light to sort of you know too intangible to sort of you know frivolous maybe but um and yet and yet it was because of that frivolousness that allowed you to just follow stories and and just present it to the audience yeah yeah yeah without a particular frame or an angle yeah totally I mean you know and you know obviously the BBC has huge time constraints there's a lot of people trying to get a lot of things on the BBC and you know the average radio four series I think is is you know a maximum of kind of three or four episodes on radio four you know even sitcoms now kind of you know quite often almost generally kind of four episode series now there's a lot of things competing for a short amount of time clearly in podcast land you have infinite time is the one thing on your hand you know so you're not compelled to tell the story in the same kind of like truncated way I find myself making podcasts and thinking you know hold on I don't you know I think that's the way I'd begin an episode in radio land you know that that's not the right episode to begin this but I get all my interviews transcribed because I like to be able to sort of pour through it and I sort of edit on paper before I'm not I'm not technically good I can't use sort of editing software on computer so I do sort of my paper edit of all the stuff I'm using and I often find myself actually not using some of the bits I've transcribed and going for the kind of the bits of stuff that just seem like filler at the end you know like the bit where the guy says you know is this on you know and stuff like that you know I think when I interviewed you for I ended up using the bits of you kind of you know making sure you had your tissues there because you know it was an emotional interview we did and you were worried that you might cry and you did cry and it was going to be incredibly brave but but I do think those moments you know like the fact that you knew it was an emotional interview you were talking about losing someone you loved and and you know the reaching for the tissues at the beginning is a moment that felt incredibly powerful and those is those sort of moments that would never make it into a radio program you'd never in the sort of you know fight to fit everything in you'd be kind of locked into kind of we need to get all the kind of really factual story stuff in there you wouldn't have that incredibly revealing character moment in there so I think that those are things you can latch on to as definite differences between podcast and radio that's Danny Robbins and this is the podcast producers podcast with me Neil Mossy it's a place where podcast producers share their tips and experiences so that everyone can start the podcast and keep going there's details of how to subscribe in the description thanks so much for getting to this point in the podcast and thanks again to Danny the links to him and his podcasts are in the description and if you've got this far into the podcast it's really good to have you here why not give me a thumbs up or a comment or tweet me it'd be lovely to hear from you and there's also details in the description for where you can find the next episode can you please help my daddy get 1000 subscribers just click on his face thanks bye