 Okay, we're back for the five o'clock block today, and this is Think Tech, I'm Jay Fidel. We're talking about community matters today with John Friedman, and he is actually in Singapore. Say hi, John. Hey, good evening, everybody. Yeah, title of our show today is, what is the title of our show? What's it like to live and work in Singapore? And we're gonna divide that up to live and work. So the first thing is live, you know, John is a local guy, that's what John is. He's found himself halfway around the world in Singapore, which has a population of something in the order of three times all of Hawaii, which is not that big, and it's really small. It's 700 square miles, it's pretty small. And so there we are with five million people crammed in 742 miles, that's pretty impressive. And everybody seems to get along. The place is very clean, the place is prosperous even at the time of COVID, and John's doing great. And I just wanna know what life is like for John in Singapore versus what it has been like in Hawaii. So welcome to the show, John. Thank you, Jay, it's good to be on and appreciate you having me here share a little bit of, I guess, life across the Pacific. Yeah, really a long way, with the 26 hours or 28 hours flight, it's a long way. Anyway, so let's talk about what it's like to be there. I mean, I was there, but it's probably 10 years ago or more. And I have to say that I really enjoyed it a lot. I thought it was a really easy place to live and especially eat, eating was good. But here we are and you're living in the time of COVID. And I guess the question, the primary question I think everybody wants to know is how is life in Singapore in the time of COVID? And what's it like for the people? What's it like for you? Yeah, sure. I guess maybe just to provide a bit of backgrounds. So I was born and raised in Hawaii. I grew up in New Iwanu, attended Punahou up until fourth grade and then went overseas for the rest of my education. I moved out to Singapore in 2007. So I've been here for about 13 years, just over 13 years now. And as you say, Singapore is a really dynamic city, city-state so much has changed in the past 10 years since you were last here. And certainly even in the extended couple of years that I came out for you, but Singapore never stands still. Even during COVID, I dare say we were all locked down, but there was clearly a lot of action going on behind the scenes. And I think if I just sort of reflect back on the year, we were one of the first countries to, I guess, receive the virus to be infected as it were. Singapore has a roaring trade with China and we're essentially an international transport hub. We have millions and millions of people coming through or we used to have millions and millions of people coming through our airport every single day. And obviously the end result was that we were exposed to the virus very early on. I think it was March, first or second week of March when I guess the numbers started picking up and the government sort of went into rapid response declaring Dorscon Orange, which was like a sort of risk assessment level which hadn't been in place since SARS back in 2003. But I guess the big difference between then and now and perhaps lessons that Hawaii or the US or any other developed nation can learn is to learn from the past and to put in place new measures and systems so that you're better prepared for when these pandemics occur in the future. So I think our health system or our public response system I guess had evolved significantly since 2003 since SARS had last sort of hit the island. And so the government had a sort of framework from which to operate and it was tough at first. And at that point, I guess the spread of COVID-19 was still pretty much isolated to this part of the world outside of China. You had it in Hong Kong, you had it in Singapore. It was slowly kind of expanding to neighboring nations but it really hadn't hit the West. And there was a lot of I guess, you know, uncertainty. There was a lot of I guess, yeah, from my position here from my position here, we reacted quickly. The government put in place a number of sort of response systems to stop working in the office and minimize sort of public transport and cut down on sort of conventions. And obviously Pineside is 2020 and we've learned and we've evolved and iterated along the way. But I think the best thing that's come out of it or I guess what's helped us get to this sort of point where we can kind of see a light at the end of the tunnel is a clear and coherent direction from policymakers which yeah, I will refrain from comments but at least that's kind of been the experience here in Singapore. Yeah, well, so drill down and unpack a little of that. You know, in the US, you have confusion at the top and you have people all over the country who reject whatever the common knowledge is, the science, the scientific knowledge. And as a result, we've had a really bad pandemic in the United States. It's really percentage-wise worse than the world. And I think that's largely government. I always felt that Singapore had a smart government back to the time of Lee Kuan Yew, smart and also capable of implementing policy. I mean, for example, Singapore is the cleanest place probably in the universe. And of course, we've all heard the thing about chewing gum and getting cane but it actually is a very clean place. And you don't get to be a clean place unless you have mechanisms to enforce the rules. Otherwise people take advantage. So I would guess in the case of COVID if somebody said you got to wear a mask then you're bloody well better wear a mask or else. Am I right? Exactly. I mean, in the past, you've heard sort of criticisms and naysayers about the sort of pedantics or the sort of heavy-handed approach perhaps by the Singapore government having lived here for 13 years. I mean, look, I fall disclosure. I've drunk the Kool-Aid. I'm like, I've bought into the story but you know what? I think this is a great place to live. I wouldn't have stayed here if it wasn't. But yeah, to your point, it's transparency. It's clarity of direction. It's cohesion at the top. It's admitting your mistakes. There was a lot of I guess confusion a little or I guess lack of clarity or confirmation in terms of having to wear a mask at least in the first couple of weeks. And obviously the government whilst trying to manage the pandemic and the sort of the continued spread is also sort of playing its role in trying to look after its citizens and ensuring their wellbeing and their sensitivities but at the same time ultimately looking after the sort of the health when it comes down to it. So I think what I'm trying to say is they were sympathetic to the needs of special populations in society, whether it's the elderly or the children. And so there wasn't like a sort of didactic sort of you must wear masks from day one. However, when it became clear that there were scientific evidence to prevent the spread of disease through the air, then it was a very sort of clearly worded message. Everyone needs to wear a mask. And this is what happens if you don't, you will be fined first time offender $300 and that sort of escalates up to $1,000. Oh boy. So like suck it up, wear a mask. Like you do your part for the betterment of society. This isn't about your right to breathe air. Like, I mean, I've heard the news clips that were coming out from other states in the union and just like it's crazy. Well, you know, when I did visit Singapore and I saw you then 10 years ago, I went to see a fellow named Dwayne Gubler. He's a doctor. He's an infectious disease expert out of NIH back when a world known, a world expert in infectious diseases. Mostly tropical infectious diseases. And he was here in Hawaii and he did not, he did not realize the promise of his appointment at the John A. Burns School of Medicine. And he was disappointed in that and he left and took a job at Duke, at Duke in Singapore. This is why I met him there in Singapore. And they treated him so well. They gave him all the researchers, all the facilities, everything he wanted. We had him on the show not too long ago about COVID I might add. And it struck me that Singapore understood fully well how important it was to have medical expertise, epidemiological expertise. And so they would support, and Duke was supporting, that's Duke, you know, the American University with facilities in Singapore. So Singapore encouraged Duke to come. And Singapore and Duke, what is it, the National University of Singapore, NUS, they encouraged Dwayne Gubler to come. As a result, Singapore has some, you know, global quality infectious disease people. So, you know, it seems to me that there are experts in Singapore in medicine that it fully understands the needs, Singapore needs, you know, to have those experts. And it is scientifically driven. Policy is scientifically driven in Singapore. And I think that's what I hear you saying. Yeah, and you know, I think what you're talking about sort of extends beyond simply the healthcare sector or the specific industry. I mean, it's reflective generally if I can, I guess, share my thoughts around here. The evolution of Singapore over the past 55 years, you know, the nation became independent in 65 after it broke away from Malaysia. And you mentioned Lee Kuan Yew, the founding father, previously setting that vision, setting the tone for what policy would look like in Singapore in the future. And again, I think as a young nation, it's had to sort of recognize its shortcomings, whether it's sort of intellectual or resource, you know, geopolitical, et cetera, et cetera, and act proactively in sort of solving for that. So whether that's, you know, the health and safety of its citizens by bringing in sort of best in class researchers in the medical profession to build up our own sort of infrastructure and knowledge base, the same can be said about many other industries, you know, financial, now technology, I mean, even to the point, I mean, this is my own sort of passion project, but, you know, we're trying to solve food security for Singapore, but it goes, you know, beyond Singapore, it goes, you know, we're talking about, you know, sustainability of the food system over the next 10, 20 years, which I guess, you know, the COVID-19 pandemic has really shone a light on. Singapore is trying to, I guess, position itself and reinvent itself to, you know, latch onto new opportunities, new industries, new needs for society, global society, you know, we cannot sort of stand by. I mean, as you mentioned at the start in your introduction, it's a tiny little island state, you know, a third, maybe a quarter the size of Oahu where the population nearly four times the size, you know, it's got one of the highest, you know, urban densities on the planets, at the same time GDP per capita is also one of the highest. So it's done very well for itself in the past 50 odd years of independence, but there's, you know, enormous challenges ahead for, you know, the next 50 years for Singapore to be getting to what they'll call SG100 celebrations. And, you know, part of the reason why, you know, I've decided to stay here for so long and, you know, have made my home in Singapore is that I believe that, you know, the policymakers and the ones who are sort of clotting the course of the nation ultimately have their citizens at heart and in mind. Yeah, oh, it's really extraordinary how, you know, if you watch the policies and watch the moves that Singapore makes, from the time of Lee Kuan Yew on forward, been smart, always smart, you know, and achieved fantastic, fantastic achievements. You know, here's a country, a nation state with very few natural resources. And yet it manufactures electronics. It has more trade and shipping than you can shake a stick at. It is a hub in Asia and the world, and it retains that. It keeps on trucking year after year. And my guess is it'll make that 100th birthday without any problem and be better off. And I'll take another guess and say, you'll be part of bringing it to that point. Now I want to tell you that in the early days of think tech, one of the things we were really interested in and in those days, it was a hot topic, not only, you know, in the world, but also in Hawaii and it was aquaponics, aquaculture. And the idea was, you know, to create food. And one of the centers, if you will, I guess this is before you went to live there. One of the centers was this building in Singapore where you grew food. You grew produce along the sides of this glass round building. And you could feed a lot of people with this one building by just growing produce in these special receptacles along around the building. And it was world famous for that. There were other places in the US and in Europe that were doing it, perhaps not at the same level as science or scope. And I wondered, you know, A, do you know about this? Is this happening? And B, this is the big one. To what extent are you part of that, John? I think like many other sort of innovative industries and sort of advances in technology, there's a time and place. And perhaps I think what you're referring to, unfortunately may not exist today, this particular structure, maybe, let's think about sort of clean tech revolution and sort of renewable energies and stuff like that and the amount of investment that went into that space in the early 2000s and it all kind of fizzled out. And yet here it is sort of receiving new life from the new potential administration and renewed focus. Going back to the sort of the food story and actually the ministry has come out and declared 2020 as the year of the Singapore food story. If it wasn't for COVID-19 and the need to respond to this like extraordinary challenge, there would be a lot more, I guess, going on about the Singapore food story and I guess tying that back to a very bold, ambitious target, which again, the Singapore government set for itself last year in 2019, they declared or they established a campaign called 30 by 30, which means they have set out the goal to produce 30% of domestic or I should say, national nutritional needs by the year 2030. And right now the statistics are actually surprising quite similar to Hawaii in terms of the amounts of imports that we rely on. I mean, it makes more sense perhaps in Singapore, we rely on approximately 90% of imports to feed us. I mean, the fact that that statistic is similar still to what you kind of baffles me. But I need this to say, I mean, agriculture as an industry has for the last 20, 30 years as Singapore has evolved and focused more on, I guess, downstream manufacturing and higher value added sectors. Agriculture has diminished down to less than 1% of GDP. Now bring that forward to the present day and faced with climate change and supply chain disruptions as we've all experienced during COVID, Singapore as a nation state is really trying to figure out, all right, how do we survive? Not just politics and COVID, but like how do we continue to feed our people over the next 20 to 30 years? We are situated right in the center of Southeast Asia which is gonna be one of the most bustling economically vibrant corners of the planet over the next 10, 20 years. As a region as a whole, population growth in the next 10 years is gonna be 250 million. That's like the equivalent of another Indonesia popping up in our sort of backyard around Singapore. And so when Singapore as an island relies on 90% of its food imports and we've suffered all these sort of border control risks during COVID, we're thinking to ourselves, well, geez, can't go on living like that. That's just not safe and secure. So going back to topic, there's been a really strong movement sort of supported by and sort of driven by government to encourage innovative solutions for food production in the islands, whether that's, you mentioned aquaculture. Obviously, the seafood industry in Southeast Asia is enormous, but we cannot continue to fish. I will refrain from using any stronger verbs there, but we cannot continue fishing the seas in the same manner as we have done for the past, however many decades, centuries. We will literally run out of fish to eat. Same thing with on-ground agriculture. We cannot continue to rely on methods and sort of producing our food through systems that we've sort of relied upon for the past 50 years when faced with climate change and rising population and constraints of natural resources. This is not just, this is not something you need to Singapore. This is a global sort of situation which we as a species are facing and we need to help solve. So Singapore has been very proactive in what it's doing in helping to solve that, not just for its population, but also for the region around us, again, going back to your point about I guess the evolution of industry and how Singapore continues to reinvent itself. We see a real opportunity to create intellectual property to build new companies and solutions in the area of whether it's water purification or food manufacturing, protein production, urban agriculture and sort of leafy greens, et cetera. All of this is now really starting to come up to the surface. We've been inspired by really exciting and incredible advances in agriculture technology and food technology, which has really been driven by the West, by the US and by Europe. And now those are starting to be sort of those ideas and those technologies are being exported and adapted around the world. We see these sort of food hubs springing up in the Netherlands, in Israel and now Singapore hopes to be that sort of food hub for the future for Southeast Asia. Yeah, if you have the high technology, you don't need that much space to do it. And so you can create food with this kind of technology and not only be well fed, but export it to other places. This is the future of the world. So you're in the right place, John. And Ag Fund, I take it, Ag Fund is a company they're associated with and Ag Fund, I take it, is doing that. Yeah, so Ag Fund are actually started off in Silicon Valley. So Ag Fund are itself is an American venture capital firm. I guess the opportunity that the founders saw back in 2013 was basically just a blank space, statistics are a report from Deloitte in 2015 exposed that within the entire venture capital investment space, less than 3% of dollar value of investments was going into agriculture technology. And again, this is supporting innovative technologies, entrepreneurs, startups, which are trying to solve these big questions around food production and sustainability of the food system. This is an industry which employs over 40% of the global population and really upon which we all rely for our daily sustenance. And yet, the numbers clearly didn't match up in terms of investing in and supporting that change. So that was, I guess, the blank space that Michael Dean and Rob Leclerc identified when they were setting up Ag Fund or in Silicon Valley back in 2013. They set up a news portal and have created like a community really, an ecosystem for anywhere from investors, corporates, researchers, policymakers, just to learn more about exciting and innovative technology that was emerging in this particular industry and how it was being applied, who, which sort of corporations might want to pilot some of these projects, acquire them to into their own sort of business lines, et cetera, et cetera. So that was the sort of genesis of Ag Funda along the way. And I think this is definitely what resonates with me coming from the investment banking background is the need to educate more investors around the opportunity, both from a commercial perspective, but also again, kind of a philosophical argument around how do you invest your money? How do you channel your money towards sort of more impactful investments? And so that was very much kind of part of the mission of Ag Funda to create a platform to educate as well as to funnel investments into this particular sector. So that's what we're doing at Ag Funda. The company sort of expanded its operations, its geographic footprint to this part of the world just last year, which is when I got involved. Let's say the stars aligned, it was when I was looking for my next sort of move out from the investment banking space. I had been working in public markets for over a decade and was looking for stronger alignment in terms of, I guess, what I was spending my time doing, the types of products, the types of investments that I was focused on. And again, it was kind of this question of what are the big challenges of the future? Where is the opportunity set? Where are the needs for society? And if I could personally be a part of that and help lend my voice to this conversation, then that was something which really excited me. Oh, what a wonderful career that would be. So do you have facilities and companies that are actually starting up in Singapore? And part B of that question is, is Singapore going to be a hub, as it is for so many things, to develop these companies elsewhere in Southeast Asia? Yes, and yes, I guess in a nutshell. As an investment firm and as a platform, AgFundor is truly global. Part of our operations include a sort of media channel, agfundonews.com. We have reporters across four continents. We are creating content. We are researching and writing about the innovations that are taking place in the agri-food system. We write research reports, free research reports. So if anyone is interested in, please feel free to drop me a line afterwards. Just talking about, I guess, the growth and the evolution of this space. We invest globally. We have, we're raising our fifth fund. We are investing in obviously early stage entrepreneurs who are really trying to make a difference in the agri-food system. Back in 2013, when AgFundor started, the majority of our deal flow was focused on North America, like 90%, I believe, to this day or at least in 2019, I think it probably, North American deal flow probably accounts for about 40%. When we started operations here in Singapore and we selected our first cohort into an accelerator program, which we've set up here in Singapore, the majority of the applications still came from overseas. We had about five applications from Singapore, big growth in India and more established agriculture sort of nations in Asia, so Thailand, Vietnam, India, obviously. Over the past 12 months, just to sort of give some reflection on the rapid evolution in this space, we just concluded a sort of more Asia Pacific-focused program where we received close to 50 applications from Singapore startups. And I guess for disclosure, the particular theme of this program was focused more around the needs of the Singapore food system. So it was urban farming, alternative protein production, supply chain innovation, et cetera, et cetera. But just to see the application number, like 10X in just a period of 12 months was really exciting for a geography which hasn't necessarily focused much on this particular sector until now. And now entrepreneurs, professionals from adjacent industries, whether it's manufacturing, whether it's healthcare, they might think about, well, how can I apply my learnings and my knowledge and sort of apply it to the food system? So for example, stem cell technology, you could be a PhD in regenerative biotechnology from the healthcare sector, but now you've got those entrepreneurs moving into food tech and exploring the really exciting space of cell-based agriculture, you know, proteins of the future, basically. Oh, this is a pivot. This is really a statement of the future. I just wonder what thing, you're talking about protein creation and growing produce such as that facility I mentioned in the early 2000s here in elsewhere, or rather in Singapore and elsewhere. But do these places link geographically to good weather? In other words, is it likely that a facility in which, you know, these companies are interested would benefit by having sunshine, by having warm weather, by having a water. I suppose water is very important to create food. And part B of that question, I love asking you two part questions. Part B of that question is, does Hawaii have a chance to get in on this? Right, so I guess my response to that would be no and yes. So, is food systems of the future reliant on resources? I guess that's what we're trying to solve for. We're recognizing that we are faced with rapidly changing climate systems and the environment around us. We're as an island state or a city state similar to I guess the resource constraints of it could be Jakarta, it could be Shanghai, it could be New York City, it could be, you know, Tel Aviv anywhere around the world. We need to think, well, I guess there's many different, I guess, topics or inspirations, whether it's carbon footprint of your supply chain or, you know, localization of food production to cater to sort of higher demographic of society or, you know, the different tastes and consumer profiles. You know, we have to consider rural to urban migration which is depleting the, you know, the manpower, the population base of the farmers who would be working in the fields and still the reliance on traditional agriculture to supply our cities. But going back to your question, Singapore is a hot place to live. You know, we average probably what, low 90s every single day of the year. You know, climate change is hyper real for us. I mean, in the past 13 years that I've lived here, I think the average temperature has risen from 28 degrees centigrade to like 31 on average. So whatever it like, it's, you know, we have 90 odd percent humidity. It's real. The government's obviously taking very proactive steps about it just earlier, like last year, earlier this year they declared a hundred billion dollar Singapore dollar 72 billion US dollar plan to tackle climate change. And in part of that, it's, you know, food systems of the future, whether it's controlled environment agriculture or recirculating aquaculture systems where you are growing fish on barges in tanks, you know, with water recirculation. So you don't necessarily rely on a fresh supply or a supply of sort of constant supply of fresh water when you can use filtration systems. You don't necessarily need, you know, more temperate climate, 70, 80 degrees like we have in Hawaii to grow leafy greens and kale and bok choy or spinach. You know, these technologies exist whether or not they make, they are sort of economically viable is the big question. You know, and we need to solve for that. We need to improve engineering systems. We need to improve whether it's lighting or energy usage. And so that is the challenge now, you know, the idea is there, the initial framework is there, but we need the version 2.0, 3.0 to continue to iterate on the sort of technology systems whether it's, you know, urban agriculture, vertical farming, you know, agriculture, protein production, et cetera, et cetera. Moving on, trying to, you know, move on to part two, you know, does Hawaii stand a chance? I mean, I've seen some really interesting sort of projects that have landed on my plate which are looking at sort of, you know, the natural resources which are available in Hawaii. And, you know, Hawaii is just blessed with great climate, wonderful, you know, land and soil now, you know, I need to be careful about, you know, in terms of let us be, I guess, prudent about how we sort of use our land and, you know, a big part of what I'm trying to solve for is sustainability in the food system. We don't just go and sort of, you know, knock down rainforests and go, you know, launch another cattle farm or something like that, but like, there are technologies available which can be, I guess, made even more productive if located in a place like Hawaii where you can leverage the abundant sort of natural resources available and then potentially, you know, use that the location of Hawaii as a showcase. Obviously, the fact that it's part of the United States is a phenomenal advantage to anyone who wants to develop technologies and export it more globally. The, you know, the regulatory environment, the trade agreements that are in place for, you know, exporting IP, et cetera, et cetera. The credibility that comes with developing technology in Hawaii is phenomenal. There's an extraordinary opportunity, I think, in this space and something which I would hope to see, you know, explored more and, you know, creating these sort of bridges of knowledge sharing and all the rest of that between Singapore and Hawaii. I think there's a lot that we can do together. Yes, yes. And you're the guy who understands both places. You're in a wonderful spot, a wonderful vantage place. Anyway, we're out of time, John. I'm so happy that we got together and actually I would like to unpack and drill down on other things you've mentioned. And I'd like to talk to you more about the technologies involved and, you know, the miracles that are being achieved and will be achieved. Before we go, I just have one other thing I want to confirm. Your dad told me that there's only one or two cases of COVID now in Singapore. I mean, on a daily basis, you have a very low number of COVID cases. I just want to confirm that to be sure I understand because we don't have that good fortune. We're doing hundreds per day. What is it like in Singapore? Well, I just checked my latest update from the Gov.sg app. So we get like, you know, twice daily updates. Seven, whether it was the latest number of locally transmitted cases. And then they break that down in terms of cases in the community, you know, newly imported cases, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, look, despite the low number, everyone is still being very careful. We've started opening up sort of more social activities like restaurants, but you're still limited to five people on a table. I have a family of six. I have to split myself into two tables. Look, it's just, you've got to be careful. We realize that this thing, you know, we're not through the crisis. There's still risk of, you know, people coming into the island, community infection, et cetera, et cetera. We just have to pull together and, you know, suck it up and just cooperate, collaborate and try to be smart and safe. And deal with the new world. Well, thank you, John. John Friedman, John William Friedman more specifically. Thank you for joining us today. It's been wonderful to talk to you. Thanks very much for having me, Jay. Look forward to speaking with you again. The same, aloha.