 Welcome to this episode of Talk of the Town. I'm James Milan, and today I am talking to Laura Kiesel. Laura is a resident here in Arlington for nearly 10 years now and an independent advocate and journalist. And one of her focuses of concentration for sure is the area of housing. And Laura, first of all, let me thank you for being here. I appreciate you taking the time. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here. Great, and we do want to talk about housing, the issues around housing and affordable housing in particular, generally, but we want to concentrate mostly on how things are playing out here in Arlington. And I know that you are, it's a funny word to use, I was going to say, you're in the privileged position in a sense. You're in the special position, I would say, to speak to this of somebody who is in an affordable housing situation yourself, right? Yes, I live at Capital Square Apartments, which is one of the main properties for the Housing Corporation of Arlington. And I've lived here for going on seven years next month. Okay, and so I think before we came on air, you and I were talking about the fact that it is rare indeed for warrant articles such as the two that you are part of the sponsorship team for, and that we will discuss in further detail as our conversation moves forward, but for warrant articles around affordable housing to be written by somebody who's actually in your situation is a rare thing. I think you haven't heard of anybody doing this yet, right? Yeah, I think this is the only warrant, or we have two warrants that is authored by renters entirely by renters and I think it's the only one, and I think it's the only one we've had at all that has been authored in part by an affordable housing tenant. So I'm going to ask you to kind of set the parameters of the conversation for us here, but just, you know, leaning on your expertise in this area and having you talk about what the situation is with affordable housing in this area, you know, in the Boston area and then kind of start to zero in on what the story is here in Arlington. So the Boston metro area, it is one of the most expensive rental markets in the country. I believe it may be at this point it's been vacillating back and forth between the third most expensive and the fifth most expensive I think as of a year or two ago it was the third most expensive rental market in in the country. So, and there's also other parts of Boston metro that are particularly notorious in 2017 I believe it was there was a study by rent cafe that found that the Boston metro area was the single most expensive and cost prohibitive market for single so unmarried women, due to a combination of the cost and wage gap issue being larger here than the other major cities. And we have one of the largest, I think it might be the largest wealth, racial wealth gaps in the country there was a really explosive report that came I think it was from the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston in four or five years that show that the median net wealth for black and African American households was $8 so not $8,800 but $8 whereas the median wealth for white households was basically almost a quarter of a million dollars so $248,000. So we have a lot of disparities by, by race and gender to that really exacerbate that housing problems here. Yeah, and as you said it is, I think everybody is aware of a couple of basic kind of facts or premises that we can proceed forward on and one of those is yes, this is an incredibly expensive place to rent or try and own a home. And then Arlington itself is, you know, introduce us to what the situation is here in Arlington clearly it mirrors, it mirrors the situation in Greater Boston area to a large degree. Yeah, so the Arlington is reflective of to an extent the problems with the larger metro area but in some ways and this is why we felt the need to do these two specific warrant articles. Arlington is behind a lot of our municipal neighbors in affordable housing so the state mandate is that each municipality should strive to have at least 10% of their housing stock be affordable housing, and Arlington is barely over half of that threshold we're at 5.7%. And we're behind all of the municipalities we border with the exception of Winchester, as well as a lot of other ones that kind of compete with us with population and demographics. So, even though we can say well, you know it's a problem with the whole state or the whole city like we, we can't just fall back on that we have more responsibilities to we need accountability to do more for affordable housing because even by the standards of the Boston metro area we're falling behind and we're not doing enough to provide genuine affordable housing for those those who need it. I was surprised by this because I knew it was 5.7%, but when we were doing our research to compile an FAQ. I was surprised that in the past, almost 20 years so 18 years. We've only increased our affordable housing stock by 0.1%. So it's only gone up from 5.6 to 5.7 since between 2001 and 2018. We really need to catch up and do do a lot better than that. Yeah, I have to say, I'm glad that you brought that last statistic up because I was going to if you didn't in that I was struck really really struck by that. And in some of the materials you shared with me before, before our chat today to see that, and especially that compared to the surrounding communities which you said already, we are lagging here in Arlington but the degree to which we're lagging when you put that point 1% to those figures that you had cited from other communities, Cambridge at 14%, Belmont event, I shouldn't say even but Belmont at 6.5%, etc, and other surrounding communities also really for want of a better term, I'll just say it kind of putting us to shame in that in that sense, especially because I'm sure it's not that Arlington was that much closer to affordable housing goals and aspirations beforehand that clearly is not the case. So there is work to be done in town and I do know from speaking to residents and town officials over a number of years now that this rhetorically, at the very least, this seems to be a very high priority for a lot of people here in town. So let's talk a little bit about about what to do about it then assuming people recognize there's a problem. People want to find a solution. How do the warrant articles that you are that you are sponsoring or co sponsoring with with others. How are they meant to address that issue in a concrete way. So, the first warrant article which we just had our hearing last week with the redevelopment board, they vote April 5. It would basically increase the inclusionary zoning requirements for private developments right now the inclusionary zoning is that one out of six new units or 15% in private developments have to be, quote unquote affordable. And we originally proposed it as a range between one out of four or a quarter or one out of three and 33% but because we felt that maybe a third might. Well one hit a lot of resistance but to maybe it might not be as feasible because of a lot of issues with economics we settled for one out of a quarter so if this past it would be that new developments. One out of every four units have to be affordable. Now, well, I think the minimum buildings right now as it's written would still start at six build six units or more so in other words, as it gets bigger but we're actually thinking or I know some other citizens have talked about adding an addendum or a friendly amendment I think it's called to make it start at one at four units so if someone has a four unit building that they build that one of those units has to be affordable I got the spreadsheet from Aaron's work of I think, you know, different buildings from the past 15 years different developments and I think several there were several four building developments where I was thinking wow, you know, if we had higher inclusionary you know one of the each of those several buildings would have been affordable because I know some people have concerns that with one out of six well we're not we're just not getting enough affordable stock in. And also that you know it's easier to evade if people want to do just for if you know developer builds a four or five unit, then there's no affordable housing in in those units and at the same time the market rate when you're just building. There's no new high end developments a lot of times that just escalates the rent prices in the area if there's no affordable housing to kind of offset those costs and stabilize it. So, I think one way to do it is to increase the affordable housing minimums that we need for this town and I know that that was something that was actually recommended. In 2016 with the housing production plan was one way to start actually increasing the affordable housing would be to increase our inclusionary zoning amendments, but it hasn't been done yet. Yeah, so I just just to be crystal clear because you just gave a lot of information. And the, what you're seeking is to ensure that we that we have zoning such that any developer or anybody who's going to be making a building that has six units or more for now. That a quarter of those 25% rather than the current 15% or a sixth of them would have to be again affordable housing. Yes. So as you mentioned, from on the behalf of some other citizens is to actually lower that threshold from a six unit building to a four unit building, which again would would kind of include or encompass a wider, a wider array of potential new buildings. Yeah, I think as we have it right now it will still be an improvement since a lot of buildings are a lot more than four or six but I think if that threshold gets lower it will be more meaningful for if and when there are more of those four building for unit buildings. Did you, does it make sense to you right now to mention the other warrant article as well or should we table that for a little bit. I mean I can mention it really quickly. The thing the other part of this is that a lot of times even affordable housing isn't very affordable to low income people. I'm proud that Arlington at the end of fall for fall town meeting past an affordable housing trust fund. And I think that that also because some of the argument or pushback I've gotten about increasing the inclusionary zoning is that it's a disincentive for developers because it's it's not just creative affordable housing and they're not recouping their costs, but there've been a lot of changes, better in federal policy with the low income housing tax credit as well as statewide to increase the value of those credits quite a bit and also I think we're doing things locally here to help fund more affordable housing one of those things is the trust fund. However, I was disheartened that I think it was at the 11th hour and there were two competing amendments one would have earmarked the funds of this trust fund to go toward households making 60% or lower area median income, which is what actually HCA is standard is 60% am I or lower. And then there was another one that would allow households making up to 100% area median income to qualify for these funds and the 100% am I got passed. I was concerned about that so to put that in real numbers 100% area median income. I think that is 80. I think that's $86,000 $8586,000 for a single family household for a two family household that is $93,000 and for once you start getting into three family household that's like $107,000. So you're basically allowing these funds people who are middle, middle class or even upper middle class or borderline upper middle class to qualify for these funds. And let me, sorry. Sorry to interrupt you were saying one family and two family and three family do you mean like one person household or. Yeah, so it's if you're a single family household just you a single person not married no dependents no it's I think it's $85 or $86,000 my notes are in here but I that it's around there. And I know for a two family household so either if you're a married couple or you're a single parent with a child. It's $93,000 and then when you start getting into a three family households so say a married couple with a child. It's $107,000. Those are the incomes of that level, and to just plainly say what my concern is. So I talked about the median wealth gap between black and white households, the area median income in the Boston area for black and African American households is $47,000. The area median income for Hispanic households, I think it's $42,000 the area median income for white households is $86,000 so about, or $85,000 so about the same that this level is and whether or not this becomes a proxy of discrimination it can exclude black and Hispanic households from here. And I know that we've had a lot of talks in this town discussions about how single family zoning has been a proxy even if it was not. It didn't name it as such but it was a proxy to exclude black and Latinx households there's been a lot of discussion in housing justice circles here in the Boston metro area primarily led by people color about how these very high area median income determinants for affordable housing has become another proxy to exclude black and brown people from neighborhoods so whether it was intending to or not my concern is that very high am I is exclusionary to people of color and also, that's very high people who are on section eight vouchers I'm on a section eight voucher. Again, section eight vouchers are disproportionately held by people with disabilities, and again black and brown people, or seniors. This is too high for people with vouchers to use to access affordable housing in towns like Arlington. And so I wanted to. All right, just to, to again just just for in the interest of keeping things as crystal clear as possible. Section eight vouchers are for a certain amount of money, and clearly if an affordable housing unit in one town versus another is a lot more expensive that that doesn't those those vouchers don't increase. It's just that you have to supply the difference between the voucher and the rental. And that, and that's a, that's obviously a big problem with higher rents. Yes. And there have been studies that show a lot of section eight voucher holders particularly section eight voucher holders of color are being hyper concentrated in extreme poverty neighborhoods and aren't having access to higher income neighborhoods like Arlington. So our, our warrants in that respect is seeking to earmark the majority of those funds we have a proposed range 75 to 85% for people making at or under 60% am I just to try to ensure that most people who are the most needy can actually have funds without that affordable housing trust fund. You know I, I know that some concern was well what for home buying programs you might want to hire and am I so that's why I think this is a compromise so let's have a little bit put aside for the higher incomes for, you know, home buying opportunities or whatever but I really, I would like to see the bulk of those funds go where I think they were initially intended to go and especially during the coven pandemic where people are being pushed out into the streets or in Congress settings like shelters and institutions where because of the virus that is could be a death sentence and has been a death sentence for many people. So can I just ask you about about this because I'm sure folks are, are, you know, generally following what we're saying but is the warrant article then seeking to set as a, as a stipulation that whatever the range is that you've determined 75 let's say 75 to 85% of the funds in the in the affordable housing fund would go to people whose am I or just immediate income is 60% or less. So those truly in need compared to those from the 60 to 100% above. And so is that would that be a stipulation would that be a guide, would that be guidance for them. What is it that the warrant article is seeking. So you know how sometimes what warrants they can solidify before town meetings so we haven't had our hearing with the select board yet to get their input. I mean I hope for a stipulation it might be a guidance it's a little bit of an experiment when I spoke to Doug Heim and I asked about doing this he said, you know, we lawyer by the way. We had town council so you know he mentioned that since this has passed but we haven't established all the parameters yet it's a little experimental to be trying to do this and do an arrange. But we could try so we're trying and at the very least we're hoping to direct a lot of attention and a conversation for how these am eyes can be exclusionary but at the most we are hoping for either a stipulation or a guidance about where the priority of these funds and the bulk of these funds should go. Okay, that's great. Thank you for kind of setting these things up as clearly as you have because in a lot of ways these things are complicated and they involve various calculations and various acronyms, which are always difficult to sift through a lot of the questions for people even even with the best of intentions, and speaking of the best of intentions. I wanted to ask you about the fact that here in Arlington, I think, many of us, most of us feel that way about ourselves that we have the best of intentions in terms of our black and brown neighbors in terms of our seniors in terms of people with you know section eight and affordable housing. I do honestly think I don't think that that people are diluting themselves necessarily, but I do believe that that's part of our of the way that we see ourselves. I think we also want to see that reflected in town officials those making putting policy into place and making decisions that affect all of us. I do have a couple of good points about to make about the fact that good intentions might be genuine and still lead to some, you know, unintended and unwanted consequences. So speak to that please. Yeah, I mean so I'm a disability advocate I'm a disabled person and I mentioned this I held a housing equity panel last month and I mentioned that we have the saying that I really like try to abide by it's called nothing about us without us because again, no matter how well intentioned if anyone who's working on a policy or program if they are not getting significant input from the actual populations that are most impacted there's going to be blind spots. And whether again, whether they're well intentioned, they're going to miss stuff and it's going to make the policy. To some extent, inequitable. So it's always important to really try to talk to the people most impacted and and listen and take, take credence from what they're what they're asking for and implement that the and I. And that's what I, why I also wanted to design this warrant in mind with my own experiences about am I. So I live in the housing corporation of Arlington, and when, and a few years ago I was, I first I started out market rate housing here in Arlington and I was within two years priced out it was going up hundreds of dollars in a couple years and at the 11th hour I got into HCA housing. Which I was, you know, happy to stay in Arlington I wanted to stay here. But then I had health issues and my due to to those health issues I had to scale back my work significantly and so over an eight month period my income was halved but a luxury condo went in next before the mass ab project happened and my rent started going up higher than my income, and very fortunate for me I had savings a lot of people don't that I could skim but it still was not going to be sustainable long term I eventually was going to run out of savings if something didn't change but what surprised me is when I spoke to town officials when I spoke to people on HCA is on board and I explained that I was being priced out several people were very surprised they thought that because I lived in affordable housing my rent was in cut you know capped at a certain percentage of my rent so that I could not be priced out and I was like no that's not how it works you know if you have a voucher. You know the voucher will absorb up to a certain you know they pay three quarters of your rent and you pay up to a third of your income but I'm not I wasn't on a voucher at the time. And I was like so there is no cap and since the AMI is set at a rate equivalent to what the area is if the area gets very expensive, then even the AMI you know 60% AMI can be a lot. So people were didn't know that and you know I, I'm on Medicaid because of my disability and just to also put it in context you know a lot of low income people are Medicaid when I spoke to a case worker at Medicaid and I told them what my rent was at the time. She paused and said wait I thought you lived in affordable housing and I said yeah I know I do and she's like well that that's affordable housing nowadays that's how much it costs and I was like yeah that's how much it costs in the Boston metro area and in Arlington. So I think a lot of people just think oh affordable housing, you know people, you just go in and you're not paying much and so affordable housing people can afford it. Yes. And so I think that that sometimes I've talked to people in the redevelopment for a lot of people don't understand these factors and if they're creating policies. I'm worried that some of the effects again whether intended or not is going to be that it's not going to be as genuinely affordable as they think it's going to be or protective of the lower income populations that need it. Makes a lot of sense. I appreciate very much you being here today and I want, we're running out of time but I wanted to invite you with the two or three minutes we have left. If there is anything of import that we have not failed that we have not yet mentioned and you'd like to. I invite you to do so. Just to elaborate again. The, so people on disability I wanted to mention to people on social security income only make $7 or $800 a month and that's it. And again a lot of people who don't understand disability, don't know that like for instance people told me why don't you go on SSI. I was like because my rent is literally hundreds of dollars more than what the payment is for SSI and people don't understand that so if you're on social security income, you cannot find a single housing market like market rate apartment that you can afford on an SSI check it has to be affordable housing and even then you usually need a voucher in addition to that. So, especially since we have coven coven has created an additional population of disabled people who can't work and now might temporarily or maybe permanently need to be on disability. So there's going to be people who need, who need that housing. So I want people to understand that I think also there's a lot of misunderstanding I, I know that it wasn't meant to be a harmful statement but the redevelopment board made a comment in response to affordable housing a few weeks back saying well we should look at workforce housing and the way it was presented seemed to suggest that it was mutually exclusive that people don't who are in affordable housing don't work. Many of us do. I think studies show that 40% of people who live in affordable housing work who are working age, especially my next door neighbor is a health care worker she's a medical assistant who works for private doctor practice right here in Arlington. We have daycare workers who work for people here in Arlington. So I think I want people to know that a lot of us work. Those of us who don't work due to disability or age still have a right to housing here and we still also contribute a lot economically to our towns and that's another thing to I think there was a comment about growing our economy or contributing toward progress, saying why we should invest more in market rate versus affordable housing and that suggests to that, you know, sometimes people who live in affordable housing or drains on the economy. And there have been studies that show that people who live in affordable housing they're more housing stable than other renters. So, compared to homeowners in the rental market affordable housing people actually stay in their communities longer than market rate renters. And it's unlikely to be investing our dollars in the immediate community because we're not going to Europe we're not going to California we're spending all our recreational dollars here. So I also think the town needs to also consider us an asset and I think that will be more reflective than in the policies and willingness to invest in increases in affordable housing to understand that it does pay off in many ways. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you for your activism for your advocacy your energy and and for shedding light on issues that are of real importance and often misunderstood ways that you've described here in town. I'm coming with Laura Kiesel, who is, as you can tell, an ardent advocate for affordable housing for those with disabilities for our brown and black neighbors, and and others. And it's been a really worthwhile conversation. Thank you Laura. Thank you. This is Milan, and this is talk of the town. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time.