 by a show of fingers, who would say former President Trump is at least partially responsible for Roe v. Wade being overturned by the Supreme Court? You just watched a snippet of probably one of the most baffling voter panels I think I've ever seen. So that panel features women from Pennsylvania who voted for Donald Trump in 2020. But the interesting thing is they don't agree with the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade. So based on their position, one would think that they would not only blame Trump for Roe v. Wade being overturned, but perhaps also reconsider supporting him going forward. But they're not going to do that. Now, as you saw, none of them actually do blame Trump for overturning Roe v. Wade. But as the clip goes on, one of the women finally admits that maybe he's a little bit responsible for Roe v. Wade being overturned. So we're going to watch that followed by MSNBC's Joy Reid's reaction. So none of you would say that he's at least partially responsible for it? Maybe just a little bit, because of his Supreme Court nominations. Now, Joy, take that. I had to show you that because her reaction was so relatable, because there are some things that you can't rationalize or justify or try to explain away. Some things just make you go, what's going on here? And, you know, it's nice to see an actual pundit have a human reaction. But I mean, even the person there who was the closest to being correct only conceded that he's a little bit responsible for overturning Roe v. Wade, which I guess is nice of her to point out since he did appoint the Supreme Court justices that voted to overturn Roe v. Wade. But I mean, it begs the question, if Trump's not responsible in their eyes for overturning Roe v. Wade, then who is? And their answer may surprise you. It probably won't, but nonetheless, here's what they say. Now, they were twisting themselves in their pretzels, saying that they still support President Trump and they were blaming it, in part, Democrats for the reason why Roe was being overturned. Of course, Democrats who have been pushing for abortion asked to take a listen to that moment. We nominated the people to the Supreme Court who were more conservative, but we could go back and say that Ruth Bader Ginsburg could have stepped off the Supreme Court earlier and they could have got the liberal judge, but she didn't she didn't resign. The Democrats are to blame, of course. Why wouldn't we assume that they would blame Democrats for this? Now look, in some ways, sure, you can blame Democrats, right? They didn't codify Roe v. Wade into law when they had a majority in the Senate and the House. But I mean, the logic here is so interesting because what that one lady said is objectively true, but it's the messenger who I take issue with. So she said that Ruth Bader Ginsburg didn't retire, right? So if she retired, Obama would have been able to replace her and Trump wouldn't have been able to stack the Supreme Court with justices who voted to overturn Roe v. Wade. And that's true. But the problem is, if you're seemingly against his Supreme Court picks, why would you vote for him in the first place? Like that's what doesn't click with me. Now, furthermore, it's ridiculous for them to pretend like Trump isn't responsible, considering the fact that he literally said multiple times that he wants credit for Roe v. Wade being overturned. The fact that I was able to terminate Roe v. Wade after 50 years of trying, they worked for 50 years. I've never seen anything like it. They worked and I was even, I was so honored to have done it. Well, I did something that nobody thought was possible. So if Trump is admitting that he's responsible for Roe v. Wade being overturned and saying that he wants credit for it, how can they still not blame him for it? I mean, the logical assumption is that they probably haven't heard him say those things and they don't know that he wants credit for it, right? I think that's fair. So what happens then if they're told that he said those things and that he wants to take credit for Roe v. Wade being overturned? Well, let's see. Former President Trump has said publicly that he is, quote, proud, unquote, that he, quote, terminated, unquote, Roe v. Wade. What's your reaction to that? I don't like that comment. I think it's terrible. I like Trump, but then I do disagree with that part of his beliefs. But on the same sense, I get his religious beliefs and I get a lot of the religious, I understand a lot of people's religious beliefs on that situation. So I'm so like torn in the middle where me personally, I don't believe it and I can't believe he says it like that. But on the other hand, I could see how and why he would be proud of that. Okay. Angie, what about you? Kind of gross. Gross that he said it. Yeah. Why? I can believe that I said it, but it's just gross to think it that somebody can even be that disrespectful. But yeah, that's all. Why is it disrespectful? It's disrespectful to women. Okay. Anybody else have a different view than Helen, Lisa and Angie when you hear that Trump said that he's proud that he terminated Roe v. Wade? I mean, he said his mind is something and he accomplished it. So I'll give him that. Well, I mean, he followed his dream of fucking over women like me. So even though I am a little bit salty about the fact that he took away my civil rights, I can still respect him for following through on his ambitions. Cool, I guess. Now, the First Lady was very clearly struggling to fight through the cognitive dissonance. But overall, once they were informed about Trump's comments, they actually did change their tune, at least a little bit, which is encouraging, even though it shouldn't be. But I mean, we're in a political climate where politicians have basically become deities and political parties have devolved into political cults. So if someone is willing to at least try to fight that tribalist instinct and challenge their own beliefs, I can appreciate that at least a little bit. So credit where it's due, right? I'm grasping here trying to give them credit where I can find it. But that still doesn't change the fact that supporting abortion and Trump is a major contradiction. But it's not the only contradiction here because they also self-identify as, wait for it, feminists and they still support Donald Trump. So let's see how they square that. Tell me what it means to be a Trump voting feminist. And Susan, your contradiction. Say it again. A contradiction. Why is it a contradiction? Because as we've all seen, Trump doesn't necessarily treat women as equals. Okay. Kathy, what does it mean to be a Trump voting feminist? Well, that is sort of like an oxymoron. But I look at his generation and in business back in the 60s, 70s and 80s was so different. And nowadays, it's turned around the Me Too movement and everything else. And I'm hoping that he's adjusting to really how to treat women. And have you seen evidence that he's adjusting? Not yet. Michelle, you voted for former President Trump in 2020. What does it mean to be a Trump voting feminist? I guess it's my choice if I want to vote for him or not. I can agree with some of the things that he's done and said. But I also have the choice to be disgusted by some of the things that he said. I mean, at least they acknowledge that it's a contradiction. But we're talking about a guy who was accused of sexual harassment by more than two dozen women and also found liable for rape until they say he still attacks his victim on the regular. He defamed her and is still defaming her. So yes, it's quite the fucking contradiction to say the least. But it gets even worse because these supporters of abortion rights are also open to a national abortion ban. I'm going to repeat that because it sounds so absurd. These women who support abortion rights and disagree with the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade are open to a national abortion ban. If all the states were at 15 weeks and it was a national 15-week ban, who would support that? Show of fingers. Every state had to be at 15 weeks with the stipulations, right? Yeah, with all three stipulations, those exceptions. So seven of you. OK, seven of you would be comfortable as long as all the states were at 15 weeks. Yeah. I mean, even say so they support abortion rights while supporting Trump, but don't blame him for overturning Roe v. Wade. And even though they support abortion rights, they'd be open to a 15-week national abortion ban. Just wow. Amazing. Trying to follow their logic here is genuinely exhausting. Now, they apparently wouldn't support a national abortion ban at six or even 12 weeks. So that's good. But I mean, they'd still be perfectly fine with 15 weeks so long as there's exceptions. But the problem is that exceptions don't actually help people who need abortions in most instances. And this was apparent shortly after Dobbs. As the New York Times explains, those with means are traveling to states where abortion is still broadly legal or are obtaining abortion pills at home because the requirements to qualify for exceptions are too steep. Doctors and hospitals are turning away patients, saying that ambiguous laws and the threat of criminal penalties make them unwilling to test the rules. And therein lies the problem. If a pregnancy is not viable or threatens the life of a pregnant person, how do you legally prove that that's the case if you're a doctor? What's to stop a Republican attorney general from accusing a doctor of performing an illegal abortion even though said abortion theoretically meets the criteria for the exception under state law? These abortions strike the fear of God into doctors and forces them to play it as safe as possible, which in turn forces pregnant people to play chicken with death. So if your pregnancy is life-threatening, well, in order to make sure there's enough evidence that you're not performing a criminal abortion, we've got a way in so you get sicker. If there is a pregnancy that's non-viable, well, you might just have to deliver that anyway and watch the baby die once it's born so that way you're not charged with murder. Can't be too safe in these circumstances. So it's barbaric. It's a barbaric system even in states with so-called exceptions, but not all exceptions are made equal. While a state like Texas, for example, may supposedly have exceptions for egg-topic pregnancies, they have no exceptions whatsoever for rape and incest, meaning that the 26,000 victims of rape who were impregnated by their rapists since abortions were outlawed in Texas are all forced to have their rapists' baby. Now, I'd assume that these panelists don't actually know about that and haven't seen the stories of formerly pro-life people now acknowledging the necessity of legal abortions, but as uninformed as they may be, I refuse to believe that someone can be so uninformed that they hold this many contradictory positions. I refuse to believe that they don't acknowledge the inherent absurdity of them being abortion-supporting feminists who also plan to vote for Donald Trump again. Now, the reason why I say this is because it's not just that they're uninformed. That's just one piece of the puzzle. Another issue is salience. It's one of the many reasons why voters make so many seemingly baffling decisions. They just don't view a particular issue as important as other issues. And when it comes to these voters in particular, they just don't view abortion as a very important issue. It's not necessarily important to me. I know it is to other women. Whether he's for it against it, I think he's against the late term, which I'm against the late term. But there are other issues that are more important to me. I think you should have their own right to choose what they want to do with their bodies. But I mean, it's not a number one factor on who I'm going to vote for either way. Okay. Got it. I know I'm a woman and I should have more to say about it. But honestly, it doesn't matter that much to me as it might matter to someone else. I see. Okay. Amy, what about you? It's not one of my top issues. Okay. Kathy? Unfortunately, it falls like number five. Like what I'm concerned about. It's number five. Got it. Mary Beth, same for you? Yeah, it's not one of my high concerns. Okay. Olivia? Yeah, just like Kathy said, it is important, but not like top three. It's not that important. I hate to say it, but overall, it's probably not going to determine who I vote for. It's like mid-range. I don't know how to explain. It's not something that's on my radar. Not that it's not on my radar. It's not something I need to worry about right now, except for like having an abortion is not something I need to worry about right now, personally. But I'm not sure that it would be a deal breaker on who I vote for. It means nothing in the grand scheme of everything to me. I'm going to vote who for who I think is going to do the best for my family. Okay. And abortion is not part of that consideration. At this point now. And that right there explains why these voters can hold so many contradictory political positions simultaneously, right? You know, you can be an abortion supporting feminist and support Donald Trump if you don't care that much about abortion and feminism, right? You can be an environmentalist, but not care as much about the environment as you do about other issues. Maybe you identify as an environmentalist, but it's issue nine out of 10 of your most prioritized policies. That's how people are able to rationalize these types of decisions. And that mentality right there, by the way, explains how many Americans vote. Well, it doesn't affect me or at least it hasn't yet. So I don't care. Look, Americans, for better or worse, are very selfish people and we vote based on our selfishness, right? We tend to not give a shit about things unless it affects us personally. You know, you might not care about gay rights until you find out that your daughter is gay. You might not care about paternity leave until you have a kid yourself. You might not care about Medicare for all until you have a medical emergency and you're bogged down by medical debt. And for purposes of this conversation, you might not care about abortion until you or your daughter or your sister needs one as well. Now, to be fair to these panelists, it's not just them. It's not a Trump voter problem. It's an American voter problem. If you want to say that this is a problem because we're all self interested, right? But I mean, Democrats do this too. For example, exit polls from the Democratic party primary in 2020 indicated that most voters agreed more with Bernie Sanders on policies like Medicare for all. Yet they still voted overwhelmingly for Joe Biden, a candidate who's not just against Medicare for all, but downright hostile towards it and said that he would veto it if it came to his desk. So how do you explain them voting for the person who they seemingly disagreed with more? Well, even though they support Medicare for all, it wasn't as salient to them as electability. And since networks like CNN and MSNBC pushed this idea that Biden was more electable than Bernie and the most electable candidate, well, they chose to vote for Biden even though they didn't necessarily agree with him on policy positions because beating Trump was their number one priority. It wasn't necessarily a policy, but it was a priority was more salient to them. So voters make a lot of irrational contradictory and downright dumb decisions that often results in them literally voting against their own self interests. And you know, we can usually chalk that up to a lack of information or them being misinformed, but it's also a matter of issue salience as well. And it doesn't help that we live in a majoritarian electoral system with just two viable options every election. So not many choices. But having said that, when the stakes are so high and when so many Americans say that they're dissatisfied with the political predicament that we're in, I think that being uninformed isn't a good excuse. If you're mad at the system and mad about the situation that you find yourself in, I think you have a duty to educate yourself and actually research the positions of politicians that you're voting for. And I get that we're all overworked and tired. And a lot of Americans don't necessarily have the time to scrutinize every single politician that they're voting for, let alone their own belief systems, right? But if you're as confused as these voters are, and you acknowledge that there's a lot of contradictory beliefs that you have, I don't know. I think that if you're not willing to be at least a little bit introspective, then you're kind of a dumbass, right? I don't know what else to say. We're all thinking it, but yeah, I think it makes you a dumbass if you know that your beliefs are inconsistent, but yet you still won't rethink them. That's on you. And at some point, you've got to take responsibility. At some point, these voters have got to own the decisions that they make at the ballot box. And, you know, they can't keep complaining if they keep voting for politicians that fuck them over, because you got what you voted for.