 independent media makers and films like Project Kashmir bring to the table in terms of what we call responsible storytelling? Well I think that from a point of view of the Ford Foundation and myself and as a filmmaker and in many ways reasons why we started partnering with ITVS on this project to bring films from other parts of the world to the United States but also to also recognize the value of the films that they produce about people and lives in this country is that when you look at a film like this you're immediately confronted with the story behind it. In a short clip like that you're confronted with the immense impact of migration and movement in the world and how we leave homes and go to other places and the large implications of that not only on the place that you leave but on your very life and how you live with the memories and the connection to those places. But at the same time for me we were talking about all of the impact of new media and how it affects our lives well I can't remember a phone number anymore. I hardly remember names because there's so much information that we're taking in every day but storytelling and narratives like these they stay with us. They have real impact in not just in what we remember how we recall things but it has real impact in terms of how we begin to use that to make sense of a much more complicated world and I say complicated because we're confronted with so much of it now. We have so much contact with it. So in many ways when we first started working with ITVS I want to go back to that because it was not long after 2009-11 and I just arrived at the foundation and there was a real concern about how much the American public had knowledge how much knowledge we had of other parts of the world and other people in the world. And we realized that yes there was a need to kind of enlarge the international reporting and to work with NPR and things like that. But it was also important to bring real life stories to people that in fact there was a real opportunity when you produce content around people's lives you bring all the issues that they're confronting but you also begin to understand that they're not just living in those issues and their lives are not just different from ours but there's so much that we share that we all want to have access to knowledge and we all want information we all want security and we want dignity. But at the same time I think we all want to be able to freely express ourselves and in that moment of free expression that moment when in fact you're looking at story you understand that there's opportunities to see what we share and I think that has so much a lot to do with this idea of how do you use narratives and stories for peace building. It is in that moment when in fact we recognize that we might have difference of agreement around political or ideological differences but there's so much that we also share in terms of what we want from our lives and what we have to deal with in our lives and what we live with and what is most important in our lives. So we felt that these narratives coming this two way highway of narratives was a very important thing to be a part of and to support especially in an effort to try and bring a sense of what does it mean to engage the conversation of peace and on what terms you begin to start that conversation and often it is where you find those moments of shared interest and shared experiences. It makes a lot of sense that these sorts of things are on the public media platform but how does public media stake out this middle ground where this kind of storytelling and conversations around them can happen and where does it get the credibility that seems so endangered everywhere else? The credibility is very, very important I think it's significant that even after 40 years of public media I think because of it, the American people rank PBS and NPR as the most trusted organizations way up on the trust meter and one of the reasons, even though sometimes it's breached there is a firewall that we are committed to of independence for filmmakers and creators, content producers and this firewall means that people can speak their mind and they have an opportunity, more importantly beyond a soundbite to tell the story. You really can't give a story dignity if you're trying to fit it in a three second spot or a tweet you really need time to get to know the person behind the story. I thought this clip was so amazing because we were all left thinking, did she have tea? Is she going to have tea? Is it going to be that easy? With all the barriers and you want to get to that part where you are sitting down and you're having tea, in order to do that you really have to find, some people say compassion I would just go for something, not as far as compassion just a connection, that this person is not the other there are these differences but only through story, authentic storytelling can we start nodding, well that's me or that's my mother or that's somebody I know, I know you and unless you get to the I know you part then nothing ever happens because the disconnect that is promoted over and over with all of the benefits we have through constant communication there's a huge disconnect as well for what passes as meaningful communication so I truly believe public media's role is more important than ever before and that we have an opportunity to step up to the plate and move beyond a lot of the wonderful things we're already doing but to intensify our storytelling through ITBS through other new storytellers who have a point of view and who really need a seat at our public television and radio and online table because I've said many times it's their table Mir, it seems like your network has really shaken up the media landscape in Pakistan since it was launched in 2002 how do you combine your network's brand of responsible storytelling with the demands of your marketplace Thank you. Since this is an event on peace let me begin by saying salam aleikum to you all which in our language means peace be upon you so I'm actually right now on a sabbatical I'm at Harvard and for a year because of my wife she wanted to do a sabbatical so I had to join her and so there was this course I took very interesting one probably the most infamous professor known for a lot of wonderful insights, philosophy but also obnoxious nature and at the end of the class he was trying to make this great epiphany point to us and I haven't been really understanding much but everybody else seems to be really into it so at the end I raised my hand and I said Professor, I am confused and all of a sudden this pinball silence everybody is like, what the hell have you done and he seems to be a little bit upset so he walks up close to me and leans over, everybody is like now silent looking at what's happening and he goes, Mir, that may be progress for you and I think I finally understood the value of confusion and I think at the end of the day part of the media I think no jokes aside is to help each other be confused about each other and so we in that attempt tried to do that January 1st this year the largest media group in India and the largest media group in Pakistan we began with the headlines in our newspapers which my family business owns with this tag which said in India it said Love Pakistan and in Pakistan it said Love India and we confused a lot of people but at the end it was basically it's a peace campaign called Aman Ki Asha which is a passion for peace and that's how it began and eventually we have a peace album as well out with the largest, most popular singers in both India and Pakistan performing we are making money out of it I'm not ashamed to tell you we have the largest record label in Pakistan the Times of India group which is a counterpart in India they have a very healthy record label business as well so in the name of peace we make some money as well on the side so we have events company both countries so you know there's a huge potential for economic and peace dividends which is our first conference just finished in Pakistan and a sequel is happening in Delhi now in about three weeks and we're trying to show the campaigns going on both our media in television and in print and on billboards and we've actually calculated what is the value of peace and we're trying to bring those who value it with those who perhaps think it's peace at too much of a price and we want to understand that those are legitimate concerns and see what happens when you bring them together so at the end your question was how do you do it responsibly and also keep in mind your brand so we try to look for sweet spots at the end we are a business organization the sweet spot would be an area where you can both survive financially but also increase your brand value so in our part of the world in our sector even bad publicity is good so even being infamous at first for trying to confuse people between how they feel about each other across the border where you have a conflict for 60 years at first it seemed a lot of infimity and notoriety but slowly it's converting into something that is giving us a lot of respect as well as financial gains Rachel I wanted to ask at the President's Council on Arts and Humanities you also obviously have to think about the intersection of public interest in the entertainment industry and you're doing some work with artists and in Hollywood you have I guess the most powerful entertainment industry in the world how do you get them involved and what role do you think they can play in this kind of storytelling that's interesting the President's Committee has both on it the heads of all the federal cultural institutions here in DC the NEA, the NEH, the Secretary of State the Department of Education the Library of Congress and then it has a group of private individuals that are appointed by the President and this committee I'm fortunate to have an incredible breadth and depth of private members including some very famous actors and celebrities and a lot of people who work in Hollywood and there is especially around this group which is somewhat self-selecting a huge appetite for trying to figure out how to use their powers for good and how to engage and how to help with messaging and a number of them are doing that in their own jobs in their own lives and just trying to use these really tools of huge mass communication and in some ways the primary vision of America that the rest of the world sees to bridge boundaries and cross cultures and create these kind of connections there is no sort of coordinated effort it takes the place in studios that put extra effort and maybe don't get so much return in films that they feel like has a strong international message it takes the format especially my committee of celebrities who are willing to spend their very valuable time and energy going out to unglamorous places and talking to people and using just the attention that they garner just by showing up somewhere to draw attention to some of these other issues I wanted to say something which might be a little bit off point there's really two ways I think that storytelling is important and one is really well exemplified by the clip that we saw and it's using a story about an incredibly sensitive and fraught subject to defuse it to create empathy and compassion by the story that you're telling and then there's another way which is something that we're actually focused on in one of our projects at the committee which is using stories which may not have a particularly explosive theme but it creates an opportunity for dialogue which may have a universal theme but it creates an opportunity for dialogue and outreach into other countries where you do the same thing you create confusion in a good way about how people see America how much we have in common versus how much we don't we have a program that pairs international and American independent filmmakers and sends them to embassies all over the world and the embassies and prepares in their films as outreach tools not only in the capital city but in the environs of the country to hold master classes in universities to screen these films and hold Q&As and we just had a program just thinking about this in Beijing or in China and there was a screening in Beijing with 800 Chinese students university students and the film that they screened is not I think anything that would be on this panel it's called Icons Among Us it's a contemporary take on Ken Burns' jazz series but with contemporary jazz musicians talking about jazz in an art form and how it's created and what improvisation is and the dialogue that went on with these 800 students was fascinating because they were so confused by the idea that jazz didn't have rules and how did it work when you don't know who's supposed to go next and you don't know when you're supposed to stop and there's no clear and it led to this really interesting discussion about the difference between Chinese and American societies and the ways that we approach rules and the ways that free will and spontaneity is addressed and it didn't talk about nuclear buildup or the ethnic tensions in the north of China but all of those people walked out of that screening both the Americans and these students with an insight into the different ways that our societies can work without a judgment about which was right and wrong and so storytelling can be used because you're telling a story that creates empathy or connection because you're telling a universal story that then creates a platform you're saying that public media is really focused on community outreach now that just creates an opportunity of dialogue around common or interesting themes that can also break down some of those boundaries. Gita, I'm not going to ask if she went in for tea I want everyone to watch the show but I do want to ask how do you make a pitch for something like that with all the noise that's going on I mean how do you do it? Well I think it takes more than me organization like ITVS it takes an organization like the US government which sent me to Beirut and to Turkey this year with the program you just described it takes an audience that's willing to accept that type of material it takes taxpayer money to make these films happen so my pitch is actually very small in all of that my pitch is to find the human universal voice that I want to say and make it feel like something you stumble your words to understand I think that the fact that this is gray area this film is what excited Sinan and myself, the filmmaker that I worked with we are very much interested in asking questions and not answering them and in the time that we're in right now it was an easy pitch in fact we felt as consumers of media that we were given things in a bite sized way and that everything was so safe you just felt like we're all dressed up and really civilized and it's just time to break free of that I mean we live in a time where conflict is when you feel like you're going to throw up conflict is when you don't understand something and that's not a negative feeling and it was time to really get comfortable with the uncomfortable and also to understand and as consumers again starting with ourselves think wait a minute I don't like it when someone just sits there and starts telling me information and we wanted to make a documentary that made people feel and not feel a sense of again safety at the end of the film but made you come out of the film and go what the hell was that I don't I mean I'm so confused everyone's so nothing got resolved well you know what that's why the wars go on and on and on you know Kishmir is not over Arthi by the way is here in the audience today and you know she can tell you more after this you know it's it's the fact that we want to understand I don't want you to sleep at night thinking that everything's okay in Israel Palestine or Kishmir I want you to sleep at night because you know that there are people out there there are heroes and inspiring and are going on and trying to live in these areas and you understand why they live in these areas you know if you're asking yourself why why don't people just leave the war why don't they just move out of Israel Palestine and come live in Milwaukee well then you don't understand and that's why we make these films is we wanted to just communicate we're so hard to communicate in numbers in news bites we wanted you to really feel something and that's what I think you know like Orlando is talking about emotional memory is where the answer is for us as people who are trying to change the world you know emotional memory is what we carry around with this when we open the newspaper and we see 20 people died in you know Duff Ward today well okay that's interesting you can talk about it at your parties but you really you don't care you don't understand I'm sorry I don't even understand but when you actually hear the story of someone from Duff Ward one person not 20 people and you are there for like I don't know three minutes to understand just the gray area the things you don't understand that they don't understand then you understand when you are confused you understand and that's what we need you to carry around when you open the paper every day and more people died and more people died you know even in Iraq you want to understand what it comes down to that one very indescribable feeling so that's what this film was about and I think every film we'll ever make will be about is emotion behind the news that we're all working together to create so we work very very closely with journalists in fact we'll open it now to questions if there's anyone in the audience who has something they'd like yes sir here in the front I have a short comment on the movie or whatever the spot we just saw it's about thanks to the American friends that it came 63 years later I mean this film shot would have been of some value in India or in Pakistan probably 63 years ago because there are a lot of people who suffered that kind of a fate either in parts of India and parts of Pakistan but today it's a little too late but anyway it's interesting that at least the American audience is being educated it probably should have more impact on our activities in Iraq or Afghanistan I think I'm sure there are similar situations in there and if people can project that far that maybe now my question is are these movies that you are making is to encourage peace or if that is the case the earlier session where we had the discussion whether the media should be really seeking peace and it was decided that they're not quite sure what that should be seeking but in my opinion I think if we are aiming these kinds of things the American media we should put them on peace diet because because we've been going to too many wars when I say too many American citizens who were born in India so I guess she was introduced as an Indian American we are not Indian American we are American citizens who were born in India so I would say we are really concerned that America is too much on a war path one after another I've said America is almost following the path at all Hitler really took and which really blew the world up if this is an attempt so presidents council and all of the movies you should be making to make sure that we don't venture on another war thank you I think that one of the things that from a point of view why make narratives like this to try and create an opportunity for greater understanding but also to kind of bring people into not only the conversation but the action to do something about what they see as important issues that affect all of our lives in the last panel there was a lot of discussion around truth I think in many ways we are looking more for honesty that within the story there is an honest representation of multiple truths possibly within a space because the thing in understanding that in a diverse world that we live in there are multiple truths to a moment and we try to bring that to the complexity of these pieces but it's not just about the film itself at a moment when in fact you've reached people and they are moved by it and they want to do something about it what do you do with that moment and this is where we're coming back to what something Pat was saying that a large part of this is not just the narrative itself but what do you do when people are affected by it how do you allow them to have an ability to respond now we see a lot of this happening now when we see catastrophes like the earthquake in Haiti people respond by giving money and there are opportunities that kind of go there but I think that there are many other ways in which people want to be involved they might want to be involved in understanding they might want to be involved in donating their time and participating in helping to change or do something like that or it might even be a thing where you realize that in fact your skills have real value in solving that problem how do you help create spaces where in fact these kinds of things happen in a new kind of connected environment that we're living with with the internet and other kinds of new technologies allows us to do those kinds of things how we or how filmmakers and how organizations like Ford or others think about how in fact you create those opportunities to connect people to those things I think it's a big part of taking the narrative to the next stage where in fact people can be actively involved and be a part of change I think change as someone says change happens really from people major social change in the world was about people rising up and deciding they were going to change it doesn't come and it usually starts with a question, someone asking a question they've seen something, experienced something and they ask the question and they want to get answers and how do you capture those moments and move with them and I think that's another large part of what we're challenged with when we think about the power of a narrative like Gita's what you do with that how do you help people connect with that and the film doesn't just show in the US obviously you're making it available to everyone and you're using all the ways possible to do that from traveling to a nation and sitting in a room and talking directly with people engaged in conversation to making it available so that people can have it in many different forms and meeting them where they are and that's the other big work that I think is a part of this kind of work that we're doing around narratives I was thinking as you were speaking no tidy solutions at the end all been conditioned through sitcoms so that at the end whatever somebody cries the dog barks we can be aware that that's what's happening but it's been an enculturation over so many years that as Americans we really do want that ending we really want to know so we can move on and not be so much bothered by thinking about it that this is going to be taken care of and I think more and more public media has such an important role to play in not providing those answers in posing the challenges and I just can't say enough about the work of ITBS some of the things that we're going to be doing I can't talk about because the contract as usual isn't you know done but an issue such as human trafficking nobody wants to watch this this is painful where are you going to see this because at the end what are you supposed to do when you find out that there are no heroes in this thing that it is a huge financial boom to so many countries so it really leaves you with how do I as a person let's just say minimal good will what do I do so that somebody else's daughter or son doesn't have to live through this hell because it all touches us so these are the kinds of things that really get us to focus in a way that we come to our own conclusions and one of the things that Orlando talked about how do you move people to do things I was so impacted by the exchanges I just want to say even though I'm not there any longer it's the best investment other than public media that the American people can make in terms of the exchange program because so many people change so many lives not their own but American's lives by living in their homes by talking about their families and one of the most powerful things two messages came out of it was that majority of people came here would talk about even now the volunteer ethic of Americans how even being on giving money we're willing to help out we're willing to do something it's the positive of who we are and the other thing is the freedom the freedom we take so for granted and we had this one young man I started the first Arab Muslim exchange high school with the help of late Ted Kennedy and Richard Luger and they were spending a year in a high school and this one young man I won't say what country he called after three months living with a family in Iowa he said you've got to get me out of here and the answer said why said well the police are going to come at any day why? well this family every night when the news comes on and President Bush talks they curse and they're just cursing and cursing and I know they're going to be in terrible trouble and more profound than any lecture any brochure was the idea that's what we do we curse and curse and we don't get in so much it's true Mira I have a question what is the role of the marketplace in storytelling and do these kinds of stories still? I haven't figured that out properly yet but I do think that more benefit doubt should be given to the silent majority and to consumers and viewers for example we did this movie which I'm holding on my hand it's called in the name of God so this movie it's about these two brothers one believes in fundamentalism both are musicians at first but the other brother ends up in Afghanistan fighting jihad and the other brother thinks nothing wrong with music and Islam so I think they're both compatible so he ends up in America learning about music as a degree the brother in Afghanistan basically when he goes to the jihad he figures out that these fundamentals weren't really part of Islam and we beat the fundamentalism out of him but then the other brother who's here in America 9-11 happens mistaken identity and he ends up in Guantanamo Bay and there we beat the liberality out of him and what the movie does basically it condemns suicide bombing and it also makes music halal because it uses the narrative of prophet David Dawud el-Islam who was given the stool of music so it proves through Islamic texts that actually music cannot be haram and there was a red mosque issue going on in the middle of Islam at that time I don't know if you remember it was under siege about only a mile away from the parliament building by this terrorist huge issue and that guy actually gave a fatwa against this movie saying if Jio is allowed to launch this film without me we're censoring it the government will be responsible for what happens next and we were all very scared we still went ahead with this and you'd be very happy to know that even though this is not a typical Bollywood movie and I really thought that this is going to be just a passion expense complete right off it became the number one box office hit of Pakistan and I was shocked by this I went to three or four focus groups I went to a cinema as well and they were clapping on those very inches which I thought you know my maybe liberal or progressive upbringing or my thirst for that progressive Islam was what's clapping inside me but the entire audience was clapping at those same very moments so it's about I think also having a little bit of faith in the silent majority of Pakistan you know this Aman Ki Asha for example you know I don't know how many Americans think that that could have happened during the Cold War that if you woke up in the morning and the New York Times or the Post said you know let's love Russia and I don't know if Russia could say let's love America but it's happened in India and Pakistan so we should give a little bit more benefit out okay so right Rachel and then Gita yeah I don't mean to speak as the mouthpiece of Hollywood because I don't actually live there I did grow up there but you know I think that for better or for worse and this really gets back to the importance of public media that the American commercial film industry has made decision that these stories don't not made a decision in any kind of conscious way but has come to the conclusion that these stories don't sell in the way that other ones do and you look at what something like a film like Invictus did at the box office versus whatever the one that's out now about Jennifer Lopez who has a baby and then meets a guy who just wants to marry and you know and you really you see that and also from my own committee you know I have some of the more passionate and civically involved and we all have a pet project with a theme that we would all applaud that they've been trying to get made for 10 years and they're the biggest celebrity you know they're the heavyweights and so you know that kind of top down storytelling I think is really problematic for the American commercial media and then you have other interestingly you know approaches Frank Hutzel who's in the audience here and I know somebody named Cynthia Schneider who I don't know if she's here but she works with an organization in LA whose whole job in a very kind of non-judgmental way is to promote accurate representations of Muslims in you know commercial media and her sort of poster child is 24 and she's you know organization has worked with them a lot about the way that Muslims are represented in you know that particular series and she works with a lot of other ones and over the course of whatever seven seasons there's three I think Muslims were all the bad guys and in the last two they were actually the good guys and that's something that she's very proud of and so there's another aspect of it not trying to not necessarily or both at the same time trying to get those stories told through the commercial media but also trying to make the stories that are already being told that are perceived as commercial reflect some themes and more accurate information than we sometimes see through the Hollywood lens I was just going to share two stories that perhaps allow you to see how I'm struggling as a filmmaker to meet these challenges because you know you make a documentary and a lot of times you get people who watch documentaries you get people who actually know quite a bit and are very open minded to watch that material and we're always struggling to get more distribution differentiated distribution when we were in Kashmir we started making this film it took about eight years and when we finished I was sitting around having a beer with one of the Kashmiris and I won't tell you who he is because Arti will go tattle but he was Muslim and I'm Hindu and we're joking around we just made this whole film to change the world and bring more diversity and get people to talk to each other and he goes oh Geetha this whole time I was going to tell you I think you're so cute you know it's too bad we'll never date and he kind of sits back and he starts laughing and that's it and I here's the thing and I'm going to be honest with you I started laughing too and it was this very profound moment for me I had just spent eight years of my life making a film about tolerance making a film about how we should all get along and see the other in us all this bullshit like and I had not changed at all and so I realized there was another film to make the challenge was wait a minute let's look at what's happening with Project Kashmir I made this film it's on ITVS I'm really excited but I want more people even more people than that to watch this next film how do we get the people who watch the backup plan which I know the name of people who watch those YouTube videos to watch what we're making about tolerance so what is it that's out there what are you guys going to watch tonight when you go home certainly not my documentary because you've had enough today right you want to go watch a rerun of something funny right or maybe you want to watch an action movie those are the two things that get distribution in this country and around the world so let's go for it why not right so the next film is about semi-arranged marriage it's about love it's a romantic comedy documentary and ITVS has been so incredibly wonderful to to make this possible and it's exciting to bring humor into documentaries even more there are so many documentaries that have been very very they have actually paved the way for films like this this is not the first but it's exciting so that's what the next film is about it's why you say that you're tolerant but will you go out with a black girl will you go out with a Muslim will you go out with are you Jewish are you going to date someone who's not Jewish let's talk about it because isn't this the root of change in the world is our individual choice doesn't that dictate how we feel and these macro macro discussions when we look at the other we don't really understand do we so that's the first thing which I think is really exciting is bringing humor you know really going with what's commercial the second thing and I'll make it quick is action films this drives me crazy and it was really great to take project Kashmir out and the one thing that frustrated me I'll be honest is that no matter where I went how remote you know if they didn't have water they had a VHS of The Terminator and some other action movie and they had seen it a million times they may not read the newspaper but they watch these films and so I came back and I couldn't stop thinking about it well I don't know if it's just the way it is in life how things just come together but I had spent about 10 years of my life as an apprentice screenwriter in Hollywood and I had worked on action films I didn't know why it was just the job I got and I worked for The Rock and I worked for Blue Crash and Fast and the Furious I'm thinking there's something here there's something here and so I wrote an action film that basically would penetrate the action market and it has a total social message which is the story of the other and it's hard to explain but we're working on it and we're making a film and I don't know if you're ever going to see it I don't know if it's going to see the light of day but I'm not even going to talk about that option we're going to do it and we need to do more of this all of us need to do more of this we need to create material that feeds the beast we can't just sit back here and make our little films I understand this now I can't just keep making my films and it's interesting for that reason as is yours can I take some questions just to the lady in the back there just wait for the microphone Hello I'm Marta Janes from Peru and I'm fascinating to have this possibility with all of you here first of all in terms of storytelling for me to bring about storytelling is to bring appreciation and a big tribute to indigenous indigenous people because we have to remember storytelling comes as a very basic form of communication in round circles from indigenous people so this is the first appreciation that is nothing that comes from today's world but this something that pays tribute to what we have learned by generations second scene, the richness of diversity but also in the area of peace building I like to remind for instance years back I saw fantastic four films by a fantastic filmmaker with water dealing with the issue of widows early marriage, a widow at eight years old then we have fire the situation what happened with love between Pakistan and India and I think excellent films I realize I used to live in Nepal for many years I realize how much anger in many people these films were brought about because people like to see as one of the presenters say don't like to see these aspects that really confront with our own consciousness we all like to live in a very comfortable zone and this is what happened to the other I heard in this panel use the word other very much and I wonder who is the other and what is the truth and how we based on the truth really interpreted who is this other so I feel that using storytelling and as you said keeping it real perhaps keeping it true although it's not a universal truth but perhaps it's a truth that whoever sees and listens this has to discover opening minds that's the most important thing in peace building so that no one have one answer for everything but you have the possibilities of storytelling and basically through many uses of art to develop consciousness to perhaps if we follow the Freudian tradition through all this help us to develop a conscious about our actions and therefore I think the possibility of here I see a confrontation with what we saw in the morning we listen in the morning or I listen in the morning about facts and here what we are presenting stories and also perhaps we have to look as well on presenting the stories of human greatness that in all these very difficult conflicts there are fantastic resilient people there are fantastic resilient women there are fantastic resilient children but whose stories very little we hear about it we only hear perhaps about these also very sad parts but also there is a joyful part on the human being to see how human nature is so strong and so resilient that in spite of very difficult situation they still go in life and make it for others thank you very much yes over here in the front my name is Salim Ali I'm a professor at the University of Vermont and I'm originally from Pakistan as well I heard a first a comment about the influence of the popular commercial films my field is environmental planning and indigenous issues and Avatar is the ultimate blockbuster the ultimate syrupy noble savage saga and I think it has hardly changed any perceptions about environmental ethics when I teach my students they just kind of laugh it off so I think you need to remember that too that the fact that a movie sells and has a very clear message doesn't often make a difference but I do feel that the news media can make a huge difference in perceptions so I have a question both for Mr. Rahman and also our guest from the government there's a real challenge with regard to the news media in the US in peace building whether it's in terms of access for Al Jazeera to cable news or it's in terms of in the case of Pakistan terms of US perceptions in Pakistan so I'm wondering if you can comment on that because that's where I think the influence is much more potent even if the audience factor itself may not seem as large well one of the things that in terms of public media statistics that were done looking at coverage international news coverage and I was actually surprised that a PBS news hour came out on top as coverage of international issues without a focus on the United States and the work that NPR is doing is just amazing and again these are complicated issues and the tendency is to want the answer and the solution this person is bad, this is happening, this is why and the treatment and sometimes it's been made fun of on Saturday 9th live the NPR approach but it takes its time and it is balanced and all views are presented for the listener and now the online participant but there's some responsibility on that other end you have to want to listen you have to have some curiosity and you have to sort of wean yourself off of the shorthand that we're so used to that an hour later you're hungry for something real so I mean I know I'm a walking commercial for public media but I just believe in in it so much in terms more now than ever before ironically because we have so many choices right now but it's a lot of nothing so taking off my Hollywood hat and putting on my government hat I don't have any words of wisdom here it's the future of media is a huge hugely complicated issue that everybody is struggling with both inside and outside of government and we don't have a ministry we don't have government-controlled media we thank God support public media which is as close I think as we come to that and they do an amazing job but you know both in terms of the economics of the media and what people are listening to and what people are tuning into it's such a more complicated beast what I think we can hold the White House responsible for is how they use the White House as a bully pulpit whether we agree or don't agree with what they're saying or you know and what the messages are coming out of what the messages are that are coming out of the administration and the State Department and all of those and how they're covered and whether they're covered well or with nuance or with you know bombast is such a deeply complicated issue and I think that the control and the role that the government plays in that is perhaps smaller than you know than we think Mayor I have something that was put in my lap here 20% of Pakistanis thought the Taliban was a problem only a year or so ago today 80% do and you think that GOTV helped to change that how did that happen who planted that question can't tell you I reveal my sources let me give some context to this situation the reason why we're able to do this peace campaign with India is because India is no longer a public any number one for Pakistan United States and by a wide wide margin you know when I meet and when I meet Americans from the government or whatever friends why how's that happening because if anyone knows anything about India and Pakistan not imaginable 10 years ago and they say what did India do nothing the question we should be asking what did America do and so you know I think you got to take things in that context so even though that part is true that I think the American approval ratings in Pakistan are borderline close to the approval ratings of one president which is not a very good place to be but at the same time yes this shift has happened that even though perhaps American approval ratings will not go up but the Taliban approval ratings have gone down by drastically and I think what happened was that the distinction was created between the Taliban's reaction as opposed to an Islamic reaction to what was happening to them and what they were doing in return and there were some videos which Taliban themselves had made and there were some videos which some flogging videos of women African and other videos which Taliban's own propaganda material stamped was aired on television which helped create you know that distinction and then obviously there was one or two people who had a lot of sympathy who represented the Taliban when they were interviewed I remember this interview went on air and he said the only time a woman should go out of the home is two times one when she marries and the other time when she dies and when he said these words I knew that this was you know this is going to change now because you know people of Pakistan no matter what we may think of them against the whole my narrative about you know the silent majority no one's going to take that line down and all of a sudden public opinion change I mean it also didn't help that he on a public proceeding he also said that once we get whatever we want we're going to invite the Islamic Uzbekistan movement so those things also didn't help sounds like a real trauma so that's another thing right that's an interesting question that as part of this you know peace process or whatever what percentage or how much time should we give to the so called enemy and in this case it helps in this case it helps so where's that fine line and how to be fair as well to the other side can I ask you a question I'm just curious about the government you know the stepping down from the larger question of how is America or the president and his rhetoric kind of presented over there but you know the Cairo speech which was a big kind of place holder for this administration and I know even though it doesn't actually get reported much in the American media even you know there's a tremendous amount of initiatives and energy and projects that came out of that in all so all those you know how do how does American rhetoric get when it's rhetoric that we might think you know would be would be positive does it not get reported does it get spawned as in general does it so the United States when you guys had your elections in Pakistan thought it was too important of election to just leave to Americans so the Pakistani media had the American elections as well and we did on SMS Geo did it and we got about 900,000 people voting about 82% voted for Obama so you know 82% is better than you know whatever our president or whatever our party got so I'm not saying that you know there's you know people love America but I think when the right things are said right actions are said I think just recently you had Hillary Clinton in Pakistan she was one of the first public officials who actually engaged Pakistanis with some of the conspiracies you know they have in their minds and some of them are actually you know there's some smoke where there's fire I get asked this question about this black water business you know what is this black water Pakistani media so crazy about black water and some people here you know very senior people they asked me why is this you know why are you adding this why does Pakistan media go berserk on these issues I mean don't you understand where do you get this stuff from and I replied I said it's New York Times I don't understand why don't you guys read the New York Times the black water issue was in the Vanity Fair it was in New York Times, Washington Post and the US Embassy took 31 days to respond in Pakistan and they logically in terms of their own logic their response was because it was such a ludicrous issue that black water wants to take over Pakistan in use but if you look at the context of black water what is the history, what is the narrative what do they be doing in Iraq they shouldn't really be in Pakistan and then you either take 31 days to ask why the conspiracy festers it's probably not the right question to ask it only fades the conspiracy right excuse me it only fades the conspiracy yes you know one of the philosophies I've heard a lot in DC is that if we engage we'll add fuel to the fire and to those people and that's why I think one of the reason I'm here because to those people I like to challenge anyone to come and actually check how hot the fire is there is no way you can help it burn further at the other end of the sector at least some people will be confused when you give an attitude because some people will start you know adding one plus one saying no it's not 11 it is sometimes two and I think that's an opportunity that is not being taken Geisha you'd like to say something I was just going to mention something if you had thought some in conflict zones or in hotbed situations the information that's coming out is usually through journalists in that area and you know we in America in first world countries a lot of times have stringers who are from those countries who give us the information and that's such a tricky precarious situation to be in actually when there is someone from you know Kazakhstan or Kashmir for example I'll just talk about Kashmir you know there if we want to get information even as a documentary filmmaker we have to find someone in Kashmir who wrote an article or we open up the New York Times and we read whatever is in there or we watch you know a program that's always created by someone and that person a lot of times when it's a third world country or a hotbed situation the people who stay usually are not someone like you they're people who live there and they report the daily grind and they're there for many many years and in my experience in some of these places and it's hard to get information from someone who's outside of it and so what happens is when you don't realize who wrote that article and who you're feeding your information off of you kind of forget it so let's say I'm you know when I'm doing research on Kashmir I read an article I read an article when I first started and it you know I just took it as okay that's how many people died this is what happened well then you know years later I go back and go okay this was written by a Hindu it's totally you know slanted and then I look at another article and I'm like oh this is written by a Muslim this is totally slanted like how you know very few journalists I mean there are a lot of journalists like you that are wonderful and very experienced and I think it's really important that you did stay in those situations but I think it's also interesting to look at the challenges of these journalists who are from these areas and to figure out how to work with them and how to how to negotiate the information coming to us as outsiders not knowing you're not having ten years or five years to figure it out a lot of times where last minute you know there's a war that breaks out somewhere or there's a situation that happens we don't know what we're getting a lot of time so I'd be curious to know how you deal with that in Pakistan as far as the information coming in and out yeah so it's you know I just read this book Greg Mortensen and there's a really great quote it says you know there comes a time in society where the best of the people lose conviction and the worst of us become intensely passionate and you know we see 1911 brought out all the Glenn Beck's and Sarah Palin's in America and you have to imagine in this context I don't mean to be political I think Sarah Palin's cute but would you marry him? no but you know on the other end you have to imagine in Pakistan's context we are getting a mini 9-11 you know every week and one of them is called at home by our own Pakistan Taliban and the other one is called by your American drones and imagine what will happen to us what imagine what will happen to our society and our narrative now in that context us trying to cover both point of views especially when the American point of view is silent and the American point of view who is sophisticated in marketing and jargons and narrative and soundbites and brand management yet they do not use that in Pakistan for some reason because they don't add fuel to the fire so imagine now for us trying to balance trying to find that one person who would want to risk their lives and not a victim you know so it becomes you know it's a challenge to see this you know by the way Arthi who you saw that clip on she's a journalist can Arthi stand up please where are you Arthi when you're in here somewhere she's a journalist she not only is she a victim sorry Arthi to call you that but she's a journalist with a time she was a journalist with the times of India Muslim male the other person in the film who's Muslim and tells his story he's a journalist you know so it's just interesting how that does affect what we get here and it's something we need to deal with is there any more questions right in the back there the lady please in the middle good afternoon my name is Allison Johnson and I'm actually building a peace building initiative and a smart power foreign policy approach for Northrop Grumman Corporation looking at how we can take on peace building from the private sector working with US government agencies and I'm really struck in this discussion about the challenge that public media and documentaries have in capturing history because when I look at Gita's comment about the small story with the individual who talked to her over a beer about his interest that would never you know be pursued I think about history playing into people's storytelling and understanding of each other and how more of public media and documentaries need to dive into the history of these conflicts and bring out that so that human beings understand the story in that long trajectory of history because when that's missing the same attitudes and feelings are perpetuated right because when I traveled all over Pakistan and India from as a businesswoman I learned so much about how all of it was the same land they were all the same people and then there was the partition and how that changed everything but having that history and understanding that gave me perspective about where the conflict originated from and so forth and I feel that sometimes in public media and in documentaries because of the time limit right they don't allow the viewer to get that full history of the last hundred to thousand years that creates these conflicts and to me to get behind Gita's challenge for herself and for all of us as human beings we have to dive into the history because every conflict has that long standing origin that if you look back to it right whether it's the issues in Palestine or issues in Sudan is that human conflict is the history that we've never addressed and my challenge really for public media and documentaries is how to reach the young children right our little children right your four year old daughter or son who is going to be learning about this and making sure they get the true history so that when they grow up they're not challenged to take those same stereotypes into the next generation how do we get our public media and documentaries to answer that question thank you I would say that there is a real interest in public media in history and I think that one of the things about the products that come out of public media is that it does have a very long life in schools I mean if it's real large impact is the way it does and become part of curriculum in schools it's been there for such a long time now I would agree with you enough there isn't there's a lot of American history very little history in other parts of the world and I think that is a fertile space to explore but you're also the primary audience is a US audience too and the question is how is the appetite of a US audience to dive deep into histories of other lands and I think that I'm not saying that it's not possible to make that work but I think it's always a big challenge in terms of deciding where the limited amount of funds you're going to place it here or you're going to place it in this other piece here and how that relates to a market or an audience that is primarily interested in US history you see a lot of US history on public media but I think that the real value of even any of the products that come out of the service itself is that they all find their way into not just in classrooms as filmed but out and built into curriculums and used that way in classrooms so they are impacting a next generation that way on one of the initiatives that we're funding we're at the beginning of this and it is domestic, it's American archives so that all of your taxpayer monies that supported public media programs for 40 years will be preserved will be made available schools and we're working on copyright issues but the challenge in terms of history is itself, you all know the statistics our own kids don't even know history from 10 years ago and we talk about the civil rights movement and like what did you need that for we are looking at gaming and it goes to your point you have a message but a message alone can be tedious and boring and people want to be connected and inspired and so where is the audience or the people we used to think of as the receptors of things you're pushing out so they're participating and if you look at a certain age group it's gaming and we have in the works right now a history and civics game that amazing on the Revolutionary War with the kids saying who knew that this happened and the teachers are getting at high marks because suddenly they're finding out how it applies to them today and we can't do the same things the way you've always done we have a whole new generation and if we're going to connect and if they're going to be at least semi-educated beyond knowing how to tweet we have a huge education responsibility I was just going to add one thing about history regarding documentaries and films that are coming out of or films about certain areas that contest history so here in the United States there's a lot of parts of the world history is something that we all agree upon we know who the president was we know what kind of government we have unfortunately the areas that a lot of us make documentaries and films about right now are the same areas that news is coming out about and it's the exact areas where history is actually the wall that keeps us from having dialogue for example there was a film called On the Way to School which I have nothing to do with it's a beautiful film where the teacher is trying to teach in the main language and the people that are in his classroom speak a different language and through just watching their interactions and the conflict that the teacher is having with the students you understand how difficult it is for these people who don't want to speak the national language and the people who are trying to initiate some kind of solidarity and the filmmakers when I saw them in Amsterdam they had this long historical opening these cards that told the history and I had been to Turkey through the diplomatic program and I looked them afterwards and I said how did you get away with those cards if you showed this in Turkey with those cards of history they would walk out of the theater and he pulled me aside and he goes yeah we took the cards out in Turkey and that's something that's really important I think for us to understand I just want to share with you that from some of these films history is exactly what divides them India, Pakistan is a perfect example you presented some history well the history you presented it's so important but what you said half the room would have walked out if this was a South Asian audience because a lot of people wouldn't agree with that history they don't agree that the conflict started with some of them don't agree to start with partitions they don't agree that there's a conflict in Kashmir because of whatever reason versus another reason so with our documentary for example we had a year of conflict trying to figure out what to put on those opening cards for our film and in the end we put as few as possible and so anyway it's just interesting even with Iraq, Iran these areas there's still this sense of history that's exactly the heart of the conflict so you almost have to leave that and get beyond it tell the stories and forget history so they can remember it or ask the right questions I know we just have two minutes so I just wanted to ask each of you the same question but in different aspects referring to your own personal situation authenticity and storytelling how can you present that when you have things like history, business authenticity, credibility to deal with when you're trying to present a story and you have all these other factors to deal with start with you Orlando I think the opportunity is really through the personal story that in fact we all wrestle with these things and therefore they become a part of a story that's a part of our personal story and if you enter that way then you have opportunities to kind of take those very difficult questions on so I think it's really oftentimes through the personal story you can kind of reach some of those difficult questions yeah I mean just keep thinking of the old hacksaw that everybody knows here especially in light of the recent discussion that one death is a tragedy and ten thousand is statistic and the kind of stories that these films are telling the individual and the closer you can stay true to the person's individual truth and narrative the less you feel like you're talking and then waiting to talk again and the more you create an opportunity for dialogue and that's really in that sacred dialogue space is the only time that the needle shifts I'm going to tell you a story that I think affirms actually what you both have just said I asked at Frank McCourt the author of Angela's Ashes who unfortunately died last year to be one of my culture connect ambassadors and we gave him all kinds of training and we wanted him to talk to kids and not have the ambassadorial reception and all of the so called culture connect ambassadors would go into very poor areas and these kids could talk to them and then they would get a little card so they could go into an internet cafe and they would get in touch with Yo-Yo Ma and Frank McCourt but anyway I'm giving Frank McCourt this whole briefing so he goes to talk he went to Palestine and they had arranged for these kids they were Israelis they were Palestinians they've been through very very tough life and still were going through it and he opens up by saying good morning I'm Frank McCourt and you think you've had a tough childhood and with that he talked about his life in Ireland and there was such a connection he actually became one of our most sought after people because his story was their story and it was told with such truth and such compassion and passion that he had such an impact on these young people so I think it is the truthfulness where people know immediately this is true or it is not true conflict to authenticity you can't go wrong I would say conflict conflict is something that is missing sometimes from our stories or from our films or from our media and conflict is authenticity on some level there's different elements that brew so to make sure that for every feeling of safety there's something offsetting it because that's real life my grandfather used to say this great responsibility about in the media business we own a stadium and to answer your question that's what helps me keep on going back to that that analogy that we shouldn't really care with side wins what we should care about is that's a fair fight and that to me I think not only makes sense ideologically but more importantly makes sense rating wise and money wise that's all I had below Riley in the same program as Keith Lieberman Oberman that's all I had got to say thank you so much for joining us and please thank everyone on our channel today really nice to meet you