 Live from Seattle, Washington, it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the CloudNative Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. Okay, welcome back, everyone, it's theCUBE Live here in Seattle for day three of three days of wall-to-wall coverage. We've been analyzing here in theCUBE for three days talking to all the experts, the CEOs, CTOs, developers, startups. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman with theCUBE coverage of here at Doc, not Doc or Con, KubeCon and CloudNativeCon, getting down in the middle. So close, John, so close. A lot of Docker containers are around here. We're taking on the Kubernetes. Our next two guys got a startup, hot startup here. We've got Norman Shea, head of business development, log DNA, new compelling solution on Kubernetes, give them a unique advantage. And of course, Daniel Berg, who's a senior engineer at IBM. They have a deal, we're going to talk about the startup and the deal with IBM that highlights kind of the new model, the new world's developing. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having us. I'm going to get you on a DockerCon sometimes. I'm going to get you on a DockerCon. A container's certainly been great. Talk about your product first. Let's get your company out there. What do you guys do? You have something new and different. Something needed. What's different about it? Yeah, so when we started building this product, one thing we were trying to do was finding a logging solution that was built for developers, especially around DevOps. We were running our own multi-tenant SaaS product at the time, and we just couldn't find anything great. We tried open-source elastic, and it turned out to be a lot to manage. There's a lot of configuration we had to do. We tried a bunch of the other products out there which were mostly built for log analysis, so you'd analyze logs maybe a week or two after, and there was nothing just real time that we wanted. And so we decided to build our own. We overcame a lot of challenges where we just felt that we could build something that was easier to use than what was out there today. Our philosophy is for developers in terms of we want to make it as simple as possible. We don't want you to manage or even think about how logs work today. And so the whole idea, even if you go down to some of the integrations that we have, our Kubernetes integration is two lines. You essentially hit two QCTL lines, your entire cluster will get logged directly, logged DNA in seconds. That's something we show oftentimes at demos as well. Normand, I wonder if you could drill in a little bit more for us. What I always look at is a lot of times, the new generation, they've got just new tools to play with and new things to do. What was different? What changed it is just the composability and what a small form factor. I would think that you could just change order of magnitude in some of the pricing of some of these. Tell us why it's different. Yeah, I think there's three major things was speed. So what we found was that there weren't a lot of solutions that were optimized really, really well for finding logs. There were a lot of log solutions out there, but we wanted to optimize that. So we find two in Elasticsearch. We do a lot of stuff around there to make that experience really pleasurable for our users. The other is scale. So what we're noticing now is if you kind of expand on the world of, you know, back in the day we had single machines that people got logs off of, then you went to VMware where you're taking a single machine and splitting it up to multiple different things. And now you have containers and all of a sudden you have Kubernetes, you're talking about thousands and thousands of nodes running in large production servers. How do you find logs in those things? And so we really wanted to build for that scale and a usability where for Kubernetes we'll automatically tag all your logs coming through. So you might get a single log line, but we'll tag it with all the metadata that you need to find exactly what you want. So if my container dies and I no longer know that containers around, how am I going to get the logs off of that? Well, you can go to LogDNA, find the container that you're looking for and know exactly where that error is coming from as well. So you're basically storing all this data, making it really easy for the integration piece. What does the IBM relationship fit in? What's the partnership? What are you guys doing together? Yeah, I don't know if Dan wants to... Go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, so we're partnering with IBM. We are one of their major partners for logging. So if you go into the observability tab under IBM Cloud and click on logging, LogDNA is there, you can start up a LogDNA instance. What we've done is, IBM brought us a great opportunity where we could take our product and help benefit their own customers and also IBM themselves with a lot of the logging that we do. They saw that we had a very simplistic way of thinking about logs and it was really geared towards when you think about IBM Cloud and the shift that they're moving towards which is really developer focused. It was a really, really good match for us. It brought us the visibility into the upmarket with larger customers and also gives us the ability to kind of deploy globally across IBM Cloud as well. I mean, IBM's got a great channel on the sales side too and you guys got a great relationship. We've seen that playbook before that I think we've interviewed and all the other events with IBM. Startups can really, if they fit in with IBM, it's just massive. But what's the reason? Why the partnership, explain. Well, I mean, first of all, we were looking for a solution, a logging solution that fit really well with IKS, our Kubernetes service. And it's cloud native, high scale, large number of clusters. That's what our customers are building. That's what we want to use internally as well. I mean, we were looking for a very robust, cloud native, logging service that we could use ourselves. And that's when we ran across these guys, what, about a year ago? Yeah, I mean, I think we kind of first got introduced at last year's CubeCon. And then we went to Container World and we just kept seeing each other. And we just kept on rolling with it. So what we've done with that integration, and what's nice about the integration is it's directly in the catalog. So it's another service in the catalog. You go and select it and provision it very easily. But what's really cool about it is we wanted to have that integration directly with the Kubernetes service as well. So there's a tab on the integration tab on the Kubernetes, literally one button, two lines of code that you just have to execute. Bam. All your logs are now streaming for the entire cluster with all the indexing and everything. It just makes it a really nice, rich experience to capture your logs. This is infrastructure as code. This is what the promise was. Absolutely is. Very seamless integration. And the backend just works. Now talk about the Kubernetes pieces. I think this is fascinating because we've been pontificating and evaluating all the commentary here in the Cube. And we've come to the conclusion that cloud's great, but there's other new platform-like things emerge. You've got Edge and all these things. So there's a whole new set. New things are going to come up. And it's not going to be just called cloud. It's going to be something else. There's Edge, you've got cameras, you've got data, you've got all kinds of stuff going on. Kubernetes seems to fit a lot of these new emerging use cases. Where does the Kubernetes fit in? You said you built on Kubernetes. Why is that so important? Explain that one piece. Yeah, I mean, I think there's, Kubernetes obviously brought a lot of opportunities for us. The big differentiator for us was because we were built on Kubernetes from the get go, we made that decision a long time ago, we didn't realize we could actually deploy this package anywhere. It didn't have to be, we didn't have to just run as multi-tenant SaaS product anymore, and I think part of that is for IBM, their customers are actually running, when they're talking about an integrated logging service, we're actually running on IBM cloud. So their customers can be assured that data doesn't actually move anywhere else. It's going to stay in IBM cloud of where they could be. This is really important. And because they're on the Kubernetes service, it gives them the opportunity of running on Kubernetes, running on a managed service. They're going to be able to put log DNA in each of the major regions. So customers will be able to keep their log data in the regions that they want it to stay. Great for compliance. Absolutely. It's been a compliance dream, right? Got to have it. Especially with the EU. How about search and discovery? That's fit in, just simple. What's your strategy on that? Yeah, so our strategy is if you look at a lot of the logging solutions out there today, a lot of times they require you to learn complex query languages and things like that. And so the biggest thing we were hearing was like, man, onboarding is really hard because some of our developers don't look at logs on a daily basis. They look at it every two weeks. Jerry Chen from Greylock Ventures said, machine learning is the new, ML is the new SQL, to your point. You don't, this complex querying is going to be automated away. Yep, yes. And you guys agree with that. Oh yeah, I totally agree with that. You talked about it on our interview. Yeah. Norman, I wonder if you could bring us in a little bit of compliance and what discussions you're having with customers. Obviously GDPR, big discussion point we had. We've got new laws coming from California soon. And so how important is this to your customers and what's the reality kind of out there in your users? Yeah, you know, compliance was, our founders had run a lot of different businesses before. They had two major startups where they work with eBay and they had to, compliance was the big thing. And so we made a decision early on to say, hey look, we're about 50 people right now, let's just do compliance now. You know, I've been at startups where we go, let's just keep growing and growing and we'll worry about compliance later. Yeah, bite you in the ass big time. Yes. You know, we made a decision to say, hey look, we're smaller, let's just implement all the processes and the necessary needs. Well, the needs there too, that's two things, right? I mean, get it out early, like security, build it up front and you got it in. Yep, yep, and remember earlier we were talking and I was telling you how within the Kubernetes service we like to use our own services to build expertise. It's the same thing here. Not only are they running on top of IKS, we're using log DNA to manage the logs and everything across the infrastructure for IKS as well. So we're heavily using it. You know, this also highlights Daniel, the ecosystem dynamic of having, when you break down this monolithic type of environments and there's sets of services, you benefit because you can tap into a startup, they can tap into IBM's goodness, it's a somewhat simple biz dev deal other than the rev share component of the sales. But technically, this is what customers want at the end game is they want the right tools, the right job, right product. Right. If it comes from a startup, you guys don't have to build it. I mean, exactly, let the experts do it. We'll integrate it. It's a great relationship and then teams work really well together, which is fantastic. What do you guys do with other startups? If a startup watch and say, hey, I want to be like log DNA. I want to plug into the IBM cloud. I want to be just like them and make all that cash. What do they got to do? What's the model? I mean, we're constantly looking at startups and new business opportunities, obviously. We do this all the time, but it's got to be the right fit, right? And that's important. It's got to be right fit with the technology. It's got to be a right fit as far as culture and team dynamics of not only my team, but the startups teams and how we're going to work together. And this is why it worked really great with log DNA. I mean, everything, it just all fit. It all made sense and it had a good business model behind that as well. So yes, there's opportunities for others, but we have to go through and explore all those. So Norman, I wonder if you care, how's your experience been at the show here? You know, we love to hear, you know, so many startups here, record setting attendance for the show. What were your expectations coming in? You know, what are the KPIs you're measuring with and how's it met to what you thought you were going to get? No, it's great. I mean, we, previous to the last year's coupon, we had not really done any events. We were a small company. We didn't want to spend the resources and but we came in last year. And I think what was refreshing was people would talk to us and we're like, oh yeah, we're not an open source technology. We're actually a log vendor. And we can, and what we said was, hey, we'll project that end to end experience. And people were like, oh wow, this is actually pretty refreshing. I'm not configuring my Fluent D system, Fluent D to tap into another elastic search. There was, you know, not a lot of that. I think this year expectation was we knew the size doubled. We still wanted to get the message out there. We knew we were hot off the presses with the IBM public launch of our service on IBM Cloud. And I think we were expecting a lot. I mean, we more than doubled what our lead count was and it's just, it's been amazing conference. I mean, I think the energy that you get and the quality of folks that come by, it's like, yeah, everybody's running Kubernetes. They know what they're talking about. And it makes that conversation that much easier for us as well. Now you're a CUBE alumni too, it's the boob, look at that. Well guys, thanks for coming on, sharing the insight. Again, great to see you again. Great commentary. Again, having the distinguished engineering and these kinds of conversations really helps the community figure out kind of what's out there. So I appreciate that. And if everything's going to go on Kubernetes too, we should put theCUBE on Kubernetes with these videos. We'll be on them. We'll be out there. Yeah, absolutely. It's theCUBE coverage day three, breaking it down here. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman. That's a wrap for us here in Seattle. Thanks for watching and look for us next year, 2019. That's a wrap for 2018, Stu. Good job. Thanks for coming on, guys. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for watching. See you around.