 Thank you. There we go. Excellent. Hey. Lisa. Hey. Here buddy. Great. Well, I'm going to get started. So. Hello everyone. Good afternoon and welcome to the May 3 2021 art and public places meeting. I will now call this meeting into order. I'm going to start with a little housekeeping before we get started. The meeting a reminder to committee members to keep your audio on mute unless you are speaking. And next, as members of the public join this meeting, you will be participating as an attendee. As an attendee microphones and cameras will be muted. And they will only be able to view the panelists while listening while items are being presented. And as members of the public join this meeting, we will be re naming your phone to maintain your privacy. It will be renamed resident. And the last four digits of your phone number. You will still have the opportunity to speak at the initial public comment. Or and or during individual items. Recording secretary, please walk us through how public comment. Sorry, how the public will be able to join and participate in this meeting? Thank you. After each agenda item is presented by the chair. The chair will ask committee members for comments and then open it up for public comment. Once the chair has called for public comment, the chair will ask the public to raise their hand if they wish to speak during public comment. If you are calling in to listen to the meeting audibly, you can dial star nine to raise your hand. The chair will then call on public public members of the committee for comment. And once the chair has reached three minutes, a timer will appear on screen for the committee and public to see. Once all live public comments have been heard, the meeting host will play voicemail public comment. The zoom host will then read in any email comments. Thank you, Aileen. Now recording secretary, will you please take roll call? You're on mute now. Member Nathanson. Here. Chair Kiefer. Here. Member Fuentes. Here. Oh wait, let me put my, sorry about that. Member Jones Carter. Here. And Member Edzerian is present at this time. Great. Thank you. Now moving on to item three, public comments. This is the time when any person may address matters not listed on the agenda, but which are within the subject matter of the jurisdiction. The public comment may, sorry, the public may make comment on agenda items when the item is called. If you wish to make a comment via Zoom, please raise your hand. If you are dialing in via telephone, please dial star nine. Each speaker is allowed three minutes. Eileen, are there any public comments? There are no raise hands at this time, nor are there any email or voicemail comments for the meeting. Thank you. Moving on to four, approval of minutes. Item 4.1, approval of minutes for the April 5th, 2021 meeting. You have all received the comments of the minutes. Were there any changes or corrections necessary? Not seeing any. Would someone like to make a motion to approve? Some moved. Great. Is there a second? I second. I'll second that. Wonderful. Are all members in agreement to accept the minutes as received? Yes. Yes. Great. The minutes are accepted as received by unanimous vote. Thank you. All right. Moving on to item 5. To section 5, reports on upcoming events and accomplished events. Item 5.1, selection of vice chair per council policy 000-42 public art. The vice chair shall be elected by the APPC members on an annual basis. Do we have any public comments at this time? No. There are no public comments at this time. All right. Moving on to the recommended action, selection of the vice chair. Do we have any nominations for vice chair? Lisa. I would like to nominate Melanie Jones-Carter. Do we have a second? Second. Second. Great. All right. Do we have any discussion at this point? All right. Will the recording- I think it sounds great. How about that? Yes. Yes. And Melanie, you can nominate yourself and all that. One time is enough, I think. Okay. I think we would just check, would you accept the nomination? Oh, I do accept. Excellent. Great. Thanks, Melanie. Tara, do you have any comments or any items to share about the vice chair position? Not really. I think that it's a position that assists the chair in times when the chair cannot perform. The duties of chair and I will work with both of you to make sure that the information that we do to prepare for meetings is shared between the both of you and keep that conversation open to help support you however I can. Great. Thank you. Sorry. I should have asked before going into the nominations for vice chair, but does anyone have any questions about the position or about the policy to elect a vice chair on an annual basis? I will move forward with the nomination for Melanie. Will the recording secretary please take roll call vote? Member Ballingotner? Oh, I apologize. If you could just give an aye or a yes. Oh, sorry, I thought we were voting. Sorry, we're voting. We're voting! Yes, aye. Yes, thank you. Member Nathanson? Yes. Chair Kiefer? Yes. Member Fuentes? Yes. Member Jones Carter? Yes. Noted that member Azirian is not present and therefore not voting. And the motion to elect member Jones Carter as vice chair has passed by unanimous vote. Thank you. Eileen and the APPC. Thank you. All right. Moving on to item 5.2, we have the APPC activation discussion. Staff will share next steps for the ad hoc task forces discussed at the April 5th meeting. Additional dialogue about committee purpose, roles, and responsibility of members is included in this conversation. Tara, would you please introduce this item? Sure. Thank you, Kristen. So this is taking up a little bit where we left off after our discussion last month. About breaking off into task forces to tackle some topics that were kind of brought up as areas to develop in our strategic plan and having the APPC active in that process in a way that will help develop new policies, potentially lead to development of new policies or procedures and other components of the program. And so we had the three identified task forces which were diversity, inclusion, access, inequity, engagement, and project development. And so we can talk a little bit about those next steps with those groups a little bit later. But in order to really talk more about what the APPC, what the committee members' roles are and responsibilities, how the committee engages with each other during meetings and during the task force meetings, how the committee engages with the public, how the committee and staff engage with each other, and just what would help with the implementation of some of the goals we have identified through our strategic planning process in terms of how these meetings function. Obviously we know there's somewhat of a barrier or maybe some amount of discomfort with Zoom meetings, so we understand that that may be a component. But we wanted to have that conversation with the committee in relationship to this kind of activation idea for the APPC and what we can do to investigate that, and what are some of the things we, staff, myself, and Raisa can do to support that. I wanted to kind of give it over to Raisa to help with this conversation, and then we can come back around to the task forces. Yeah, I mean, I think to put it even more bluntly is can we change the culture of what the Armed Public Places Committee has been for years? And to be fair, all of you are new from what it was, but there are a whole diverse sort of feelings of formality and restrictions, or what is our purview, versus what do you want it to be? And we've been struggling with this, just with this committee, but as a whole in the city, as we've shifted to having less of an ability to connect individually on a personal level with our fellow committee members, or board members, or what have you. But then also, we have this opportunity right now, a couple of years ago when the entirety of the program moved from the Parks and Rec, Recreation of Parks, People's Fourth Places, Recreation and Parks Department, when it moved over to economic development, we started to really push on concepts of what it was and what it can be as it relates not just to public art and art in the community, but the economic opportunities related to it, and how all of the board, the committee members can be ambassadors, etc. So this is juxtaposed between the core functions of what the committee is. There are certain requirements you have to meet, there are certain things you have to do, as well as the formality of the a Brown Act committee in general. So that's juxtaposed in that piece of it too. What can we be, how can we work within those structures to meet the personal needs and goals of this committee? Because each of you have said, sometimes it's almost painful when you're in committees, it's like, okay, you know, Member Kiefer or Chair Kiefer, can you talk to Member Jones Carter? So how do we sort of blow this up and make it a less formal committee that flows with ideas and flows with a conversation within the confines of the Brown Act thing? So that's sort of what we're throwing out too, and I'll stop there and see if you guys have questions or thoughts. And then I can give you examples if needed on what we're trying in other areas for other committees. And I have to say I even got another subcommittee, which is three council members to stop saying, well, council member Sawyer, we call each other by first names, which you guys all do anyway, just to encourage this more informal discussion again within the confines. So I throw that out in terms of the shift of culture of what you've seen or what you would like to see. And I can keep talking, but yes, Jeff. I will gladly jump in because this is music to my ears. I find the formality of process somewhat stifling, and then the nonprofit realm in which I usually function, although we are very conscious of transparency and to invite the public in, although we certainly know we could do a better job. But the informal way in which we conduct business, and this has been through my entire career, sort of flies in the face of official government sanctioned committees and bodies. But one of the things that I find really exciting over the last couple of decades, and especially in the last few years, is that in the art and culture community, there's been an increasing interest and welcoming to the sort of collaborative nature of project development and the desire to invite the community in and to get into dialogues with the community. So we have this process going on for public art where we're having some events and communications and focus groups and things that invite the community in. But I feel like probably a good indication that we really don't engage with the community is that people don't show up for these meetings and they don't interact with us and we don't hear public comments. So I've been working with this APPC group now for over a year and I've never heard a public comment. And I find that really kind of disappointing. Of course, I've been in situations where the public is actually up in arms and really mad about what we're doing in public art. But I just think that we need to open the doors to basically go in both directions and create a two-way street with the community so that we can have a dialogue and we can maybe develop some projects that are really community-based and collaborative. I know that there have been some, but I kind of like the idea of a public art program leaning more in that direction rather than, and certainly the UNAM project for Courthouse Square is inviting the community in. But I really love the idea of having sort of a basic philosophy of collaboration and partnership with the community. And can I push on that one second? And then I think Melanie, it looks like you might want to speak, but I want to say something on that public engagement part. Like that is something in and of itself that I think is really interesting. One is we're expecting people to come to us, but how do we shift that dynamic? Because access is an issue, right? Equity access is an issue. So what are the roles individually that we can play and what do we individually want to do in that, which kind of speaks to the committees, like these sort of rolling a benefit of committees that we'll get to in a little bit. Meaning that if we have subcommittees of a committee, you don't want those to be stayed. No, if we do the ad hawks and we sort of advance things, then we can again start shifting the change or creating that change we're looking for. Because I have to say, I wouldn't show up at 3.30 on a Monday, right? You just don't know. The engagement is not to sit here and listen to us do specific things in a formal way. But it's that conversation you're having with your neighbor or at an art fair or, you know, with somebody you just happened to meet. And then that's where the ideas spark. So I think that piece of it is a beautiful entree into access and engagement. But how do we flip it? How do we flip it so we don't expect people to show here, but we show in the community? Melanie, were you going to say something? Yeah, I was going to say, I, you know, every, I take the press Democrat and people think, oh, we'd still take a newspaper, but I do. And I'm always seeing articles in there about artists. And I was thinking, you know, I've read something and I was like, I'd like to find out a little bit more about this person, how they did it, how the project came to be. And so I was thinking, you know, if we can get more invite more of those people into our meetings, you know, to just discuss, well, this is the process that we can't that we use to, you know, create this mural or we did this and, you know, and more and more people would know about our program and know, and we could find out ways that we could help them. I think it would be beneficial to get our name out there a little bit more, so that people do know that we are a resource out there for art projects. So can I ask on that one, then like digging people in that because I think that I think it would be helpful to introduce them here. But then, you know, again, looking at both sides of that is, what do you guys feel is your role in the community? I'm like, because it doesn't stop here, but I know this has been a conversation with previous members of what am I allowed to do? What is my purview? I mean, is there are there questions about that? Yeah. Yeah, that actually is one of one of my questions. And then, in addition to that question, too, as a member of the APPC and when I'm reaching out to the community, and I want to know what do I have to offer? What can we as as a group and as when we're trying to reach out and we want to support artists around what are we going to offer them? What can we give? And how are we supporting them? So, so there's two things that I'm thinking about this. So one is, like, something that's so lovely about this committee is that it's not like these policies that it's like, oh, you're not going to over promise on like minimum wage or something like this, right? You're going to over promise potentially on the possibility of arts and culture in the community, right? And that's not that's not a make or break over promise. That's something we can certainly look to. So, you know, the one of the things that we always say with appointed committees, which this is or the Planning Commission is understanding the values and the desires of the place that the person who appointed you where they're coming from. And in this case, we have a phenomenally supportive council for with an interest in arts, culture, place making, etc. So it's really it would be really hard for you guys to be in a position where, you know, where you deny a project that would be totally against the values of whoever appointed you, right? It would be just like, I just don't see that happening. So number one, that that takes any pressure off of you in terms of your commitment, or a lot of pressure off of you in terms of your commitment to the council members, right, your appointed council member. But the other one is, I mean, gosh, Lisa, we don't know yet, right? The and that happens through dialogue, but ongoing dialogue. So what are we giving them? There's a couple of things like we could give them access to a pathway, right? So one of the sort of ad hoc committees is, is, you know, looking at some of these, these things, how do we put together toolkits? Or, or how are we, like, how are we engaging? And I think the thing is, is not always to have an answer. But to keep these things, it's like, even I don't know, is a good thing, but how do you connect it? And how in the end, do you have like the sort of, you know, sort of all these disconnected dots, and over time, you begin like pulling them in and, and connecting them to other things that only happens over time, right? And through connection and through that engagement. So I don't know if there's an answer, but you, to me, just the ability to sort of be bold about it, knowing that you're not going to over promise something that's going to be really like, what, what did Lisa just say? Will perhaps allow, I don't know if that answers your question, or your, or that, that helps at all. Yeah, I don't know either. It's just, it still keeps it pretty open. I am. Okay, so, so like if somebody said, so like we were at the protests, right, last June and July and August. And people wanted to, they were like, there's a good group of people who wanted to do art as a response, right? And we were, you know, at the time nobody knew, like we even us were like, I don't know, can, can public work? Well, it all came back to Tara. And it all came through one person versus saying, okay, I'm present in the community. Let me take this back. Let's us find the answer is a better thing than we don't have a process. But saying I hear you, and we can figure this out is better than saying no, or better than saying that's not my purview. So I think even being able to say everything's in my purview, we can connect this, I'm bringing it back in open discussion and saying, Hey, I met somebody who wants to do XYZ. Maybe it's not an ATPC thing where it's like we have to put out an RP right and check qualifications, but we're like, oh, we can connect that to open and out, or we can connect that to out there SR. That's a step forward. And then I would say too, I would love to see it where you don't just hand it off and be disconnected because it shouldn't be a staff thing. It should be an all of us thing. Okay. Okay, so basically, when we're reaching out there, we're going to ask questions. We're going to see what community members, you know, want or need or what they have a vision of, and see how we can meet those or how we can help facilitate to make that happen. Yeah, I mean, because, you know, this strategic plan that we have, we've had it for just over a month now or so, right? And there are a lot of elements to it. But it's not a Bible where you're like, you can only do this thing. There's not like fill in the bubble and it's only that bubble that, you know, is the right answer. But that it's, I think we're going to have to feel comfortable having messy conversations and pushing ourselves to have messy conversations to understand, number one, what we have capacity for as individuals on this committee have recognition of what staff, I mean, you have such a limited staff, what falls within who's purview and where it fits within the strategy. But I want to encourage those messy conversations and I want to encourage openness about frustration, right? Because if you're sitting in silence, like, I don't know, it doesn't seem like it. Well, we don't know. We don't even know what your frustration is. Maybe there's even a creative way to answer that. Curious about the, I guess, the Brown Act and what we're allowed to do and not allowed to do. So, the other day, I had a fairly long conversation with Kristen Madsen, Creative Sonoma. And we were just talking about how to re-engage members of the art community. Before the pandemic, a number of us, especially executive directors and CEOs, were meeting on a fairly regular basis. There were also people who were program and marketing people from various museums and performing arts groups, arts educators, people were kind of getting together in formally organized meetings as well as just meeting over beers at the beer bar and or whatever. And so the pandemic kind of stopped all of that. And most of us ended up retreating into our own organizations. And I know for myself, kind of in a survival mode, you know, what do we have to do for this museum to survive? And I know most of my colleagues have been doing the same thing. But now that we're seeing maybe a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel and also kind of somewhat inspired by our board getting together in an informal gathering in our sculpture garden. Kristen, who wasn't able to attend that particular event, but she said, you know, maybe the museum has a good venue for people to come together. So I'm thinking from my perspective as somebody who runs this really nice venue with outdoor as well as really big indoor space. If we wanted to have an event and invite the public to come and engage in conversation. So how do we do that? You know, I think it could be really or it doesn't have to be here. It could be at LBC or some other place. Yeah, so I mean, that's okay. So Bronex is something we have to be aware of. So like if there's something on an individual basis, right, you can say, Hey, Tara, can we put this on the agenda? Right. So we do have to agendize it. And we do have some structure. So you don't get to have a free for all conversation that's so open that unless we can figure out how to say, you know, a conversation on, you know, mission based culture or something like this, we can do for a couple of times, like we can figure out is there a way to sort of, if there's a general area of topics we want to do. And then if there are events, I mean, unless you're saying, again, there's very few times when we have decision making things where you're selecting somebody or you're assigning a budget or it's, it's recommendations that that sort of are read into the record. Those are the things where you have to worry about serial meetings, like, like you tell Lisa, who tells, you know, and who tells Melanie, you know, when it goes up the thing, those are the things we can't really do. But most of the conversations in terms of, Oh, I have an idea. Hey, we thought about this. Those are conversations that once it's agendized, then we can formalize it. So, you know, as an example, counsel, they go out to dinner, you know, they used to go out to dinner once a month, or once a quarter. And it's perfectly fine. You just can't talk about something that requires a decision. The having an event would be awesome. You can talk about what you do on the board or what we could, you know, the committee rather, what, what kinds of decisions you make, or if somebody has an idea, and you want to agendize it. I mean, that's beautiful. You know, we could definitely do that. I was just thinking, you know, when you have that party and nobody shows up, though. That one. We'd have to work really hard to get people interested to come, I think, or, I don't know. I like what you're talking about, Jeff, when I was actually at your museum yesterday for the first time, I just spent the afternoon there and monitored the whole thing. And that sculpture garden is such a great space. And I was thinking, yeah, a space in place, even like as we're coming into the summer, and like, I don't remember which night is the courthouse and all that downtown, well, I spent so long, but Wednesday, right? Is it Wednesdays? Yeah. Those kind of things that are, that people start to have a rhythm with being, we could set up places within places where people are meeting, that we kind of recreate and redefine a space, you know, so we're not actually saying come to our thing, and we have to get, but we're not only telling people, but we're also their present and we might surprise some people. I was also thinking about just the, not to go on and on, but the many kinds of social practice projects that are going on around the world that are actually pop up in places where people are and ask questions and invite people, whether it's with a chalk on a board or something very noncommittal, get people's responses and answers. That's just the beginning. I'm just talking about low level senses of someone going, wow, I was touched, I was connected, and then hopefully we're actually socially present ourselves too, to make connections. And I don't know, does that ring a bell with anyone? It absolutely does. I've followed a couple of public artists who really focused their work on public engagement and really worked to create collaborative pieces of art where it's, you know, getting input from the public. I'm thinking specifically of an artist named Candy Chang. Big blackboards of, you know, I want to do this before I die, or a vacant public space and, you know, putting name tags up of I wish this was a grocery store or a community gathering space, et cetera. Right. Our old houses where people before it's painted or redone, people get to write on the walls, you know, like just like, kind of, since crossing barriers that people don't, since they have the permission to do, but being right there and inviting it. And so I'm very glad we're having this conversation today and, you know, kind of spitballing and brainstorming about what, what are activities that are meaningful to us and what we think would bring meaning to our role and purview as a committee. I also see a lot in terms of a lot of potential in this role to be an advocate and to be able to translate of, okay, where are things in a process and then also where are things in terms of council priorities and how do logistically things happen because it's great if you can have a pie in the sky idea. But if there isn't the feat or the kind of roadmap to kind of identify or track how things come together, sometimes that's a big disconnect between how do things happen and going to a ribbon cutting. So I see a lot of potential and opportunity with our ad hoc committees to get more familiarity with these processes and for us to feel a little bit more in tune with what's going on and how to be more advocating for it within our own community circles. So something that's interesting too is how do you do it quickly? Like so, like, you know, and if there's something that pops up and it's like, oh, we want a response to this. How do you do it? How do you do it quickly? And I think, you know, with six, hopefully soon seven members, you can, it's less likely if you're like, hey, Tara, can you, right? So, so it's that enabling of self. And then if we come up with, you know, something again, even on the individual level, not everything has to come through the committee, right? If it's not an art and public places committee decision, maybe it can we do something like this building is going to be torn down over here and I happen to know the landlord or I don't know the landlord or DU can we contact them. We can connect that again through other programs, we could potentially connect it through the, through the out there SR program. We can potentially connect with the museum and be like, hey, museum, you know, we're going to go out and do this. You know, so I think even allowing that in the individual ideas to bubble up, even if it doesn't make it onto a monthly meeting, at least could make it to staff and we could maybe make the connections. Or you do it all by yourself and say, hey, can we promote this? And then we slap a PPC on it or maybe if we have funds, you know, throw funds at it. How do we enable those? I think that's part of it is not keeping those ideas, you know, within. I mean, I've always been like a huge advocate for sort of like street art or things that even are enabled by the government that don't seem to be, that are subversive, like we could pay for it, but it doesn't seem like government's involved at all. But it bubbles up that way. Any of those things would be wonderful. Is there a space in our agenda for, or actually this is my question. The current agenda that we have, is there something on here that has to stay? Is there anything on the agenda that you have to have at every single meeting? Approval of minutes and public comments not on the agenda generally. Okay. Okay. Because I think we could revamp our agenda to make it a little more friendly, maybe. Yeah, I mean, like it used to be like comments or updates from board members, but then that was like, well, I went to a coffee house and I saw a picture, you know, or I mean, not to belittle it. But please don't go back to that. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, I mean, okay, maybe I didn't mean to belittle it. I don't know. But what is the thing instead that is, you know, idea generation that is okay on this? Oh, and the other idea that Tarna and I were talking about, so we've done it in another committee where we have to have this formal thing, but I usually do a slightly less formal sort of agenda that has the list of like current projects, parking lot ideas, so that people can see that we're constantly thinking of things. And as it came up, I was like, oh, okay, you know what we have funding, let's pull this idea up so that our ideas aren't lost. And then we can, we can sort of act on it. And it might be, so maybe it's sort of like the repository for ideas, and maybe it's like review of idea repository or something like that. Because we can attach that as an attachment, and then we can talk about those things, right? Okay, okay. Good. You know, I love that idea, and I could see us doing something as maybe, as open in concept as review of previously presented ideas, you know, to go to this list, and then new ideas, or I like that term idea generation, or we're just a time for brainstorming. Yes. Because there are new public art projects that come online all the time, all over the country. And if we actually had a little bit of time where if one of us saw something, even if it's in another country, but you just go, wow, wouldn't this be great in Santa Rosa? Can we just kind of look at this, see if we can adapt it? Because I feel like we don't have a creative process, really, we have such a formal regimented process. And it's really different than the way we operate at the museum or a couple of other nonprofits I work with, where you just, it's like, hey, this thing happened, and you just sort of talk about it, because it was, you know, it seems really cool. And of course, the chair has been given an even more of a challenge to keep things on track, if things are going off in a tangential direction where you go, yeah, it's cool, you saw that, but we really have to talk about this other thing. So I think there's opportunity with that conversation, though, to say whether that example is consistent with current structure or current connections, or what it would take to create something of that project's magnitude in terms of our current framework. And does it support our new strategic plan? Thank you. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and that's actually the way you do it. You just say, is it consistent with our mission? It doesn't work within the framework of the strategic plan? And is there the potential to actually budget for it? Or does our current budget allow for it? And if it meets those three standards, then it's worth exploring, right? Or you can put it on that list you described, Garisa, for future consideration. Yeah, and I would add a fourth thing if it doesn't meet this committee's current budget, is there another outlet? Is there another place that you can do it? I see a lot of, am I muted? No, I see a lot of work from other surrounding art and public places committees, too. It would be interesting to maybe go to one of their meetings or see how they run and function. I mean, you could always steal ideas from somebody else without having to recreate it yourself, but that might be an interesting visit as well. Yeah, I wonder too, like, I'm just taking a step back because, you know, clearly I love the idea of taking over things that, and it's like temporary sort of outlets. Like if we hear something like, oh, there's a street that's going to be repaved or something like this, what if we, you know, jumped on it and then it became a free for all of painting in the street before it's repainted? Like maybe there are things where staff can, you know, we can add that on the list and if we hear about things, adding it on or something like this. I mean, I have to say that I get very worried about Tara's ability to do something. So it's always got to be things where can we connect and are we taking responsibility for it or it doesn't become a staff thing. And that's where I think we have the most opportunity. It's enabling you as members, it's enabling out, you know, non-member committee or community members, I think is where we have the most opportunity beyond, you know, what we have to do within even the strat plan. And Tara, do you have thoughts on this? Because you're sort of, I mean, you're pivotal to it as well. Yeah, I think that the strategic plan sets us up with essentially like a task list of things to do and it will take some time for us to do them. But once we have a lot of it in place, I think a lot of these types of things will make more sense. They'll have a place, you know, they'll have, we'll have resources, we'll have processes for the community kind of activations and the community led projects that can happen without all of the steps that it takes for the city to do a commission project. So I really go back to that as being a very, very helpful document for me in terms of implementing. So I mean, I feel like it lays out so many, so many areas where we need to invest some time to develop additional steps, different additional programs, additional things that if we're starting there to chip away at that, I think in a couple years, you know, at the end of the strategic plan, if we can, if we can get through it, I know nobody wants to hear it's going to take that long, but that's the reality, even if we're all on board and doing our piece of it, it's going to take time. That's a very extensive document given, you know, the resources that we have, it's a small team. And so I feel like if we can really hunker down and focus on implementing that, a lot of the things that you're talking about will start to manifest in various ways because I really feel like the things you're talking about are at the root of that strategic plan. I mean, the outreach we got, the input we got when we did the outreach with the public and with the arts community, when we were doing the research or when Third Plateau was doing the research for that, got a lot of this feedback from the other side, right, from the public's point of view. It's very similar along these same lines. And so the plan really responds to it. And I think that those kind of shared goals will really be met through the full implementation of it. So that's the thing that I feel is like a grounding for me because it's a document. It's been approved. We can start chipping away at it, right? It feels like a place to come back to, to see some progress starting to be made. You know, I think that some of the things that you talked about, about gauging, inviting the community to participate, I mean, that's really called for in the plan and highlighted in various ways. And I think that open houses is one of the ways that the consultants talked about that. How do we structure open houses for the committee to share what we're doing to get ideas from the public and to create more of a symbiotic relationship there that doesn't feel like the only input we're getting from the public is when they're upset about a project and then they come and complain. So, you know, I don't know, I just, I just keep going back to that plan because I feel like it's really all in there. It's just a matter of getting, getting at it and figuring out how this committee is involved with it. So I think the task forces are, are super great to start on that because I feel like the engagement one in particular fits in with just, just that. And then the project development one actually to me kind of fits in with this idea generation idea. I mean, the way we kind of wrote the topic of that task force for project development covers kind of a lot, but I actually think this kind of fits in it too. So what, what is that structure like with the task force reporting back to the full committee? Because I think, you know, on future agendas, however we revamp them, there will be report outs from the tax task forces, right? And so those report outs by the task forces would then generate conversation with the rest of committee about, well, we came up with this and this and we want your feedback and your ideas and then we can keep that kind of running list of stuff that can be attached to the agenda to come back to and revisit. So I feel like that's a good fit with that topic, task force topic. And I mean, I get frustrated with the restrictions we have with Brown Act for sure. I think that one of the things that I've come up with in the past that I would love to try to find an answer to is that the full committee can't always participate in community things because that's a quorum, right? And so I mean, it's like, how do you avoid that kind of stuff when we're trying to do this kind of work? And I mean, that's one of the reasons why task forces have just the two members assigned to each one or three to avoid that. But it also comes up if we're doing like an open house type thing, can all the members attend an open house without being a public event? I mean, a public, open to the public, public the notice to the event? We're finding ways to do that because I think there's like official members, like there, I think we are looking at ways to doing that. And I stated, because like, that's where I don't want those to be restricted, you can still as a citizen show up to face, right? But if you're going to be an official member of something you're talking about something, then maybe it's that because we actually had a subcommittee where a council member came in as a public member and commented as a public member, even though he was a council member. And I was like, you can do that. I'm like, yeah, you can do that. You're citizens, right? So I think we need we need to like follow up on that Tara, if we want to do some of these things, so that we can continue to have participation at a level where people want to show what what what are the I think we need to clarify what those parameters are. That would be very helpful for us figuring out how we want to make our our next step. And especially as things are becoming a little bit more attractive for people to start leaving their homes again, I think that would be something I would be encouraged about. So, yeah, you know, Jeff, I think like the way you guys did your strategic plan, the sort of task forces off of that where we did the the report outs. And then they got I mean, I think there were some good conversations that it sparked conversation that sort of like what we're thinking is opening it up so that people feel enabled to comment. And it's not just receiving information, but participating in the solution, even if you weren't on the task force to begin with. Because we should be checking ourselves. Go ahead. Right. Well, I think there has to be an attitude of appreciation for for creative responses and for an exchange of ideas. And certainly we have some meetings which are more formally structured because of the number of people and how much time you have available. And maybe the length of the agenda. But I think there's it's really important to have meetings where we really encourage people to give us feedback and to be able to think creatively, especially those of us who are in the arts. And so here we are a PPC is and it's an art committee. I feel like thinking outside the box is something that we should all really, we should all encourage and we should really welcome that kind of it's like if somebody gives us an idea out of left field, it's like, cool, you know, because we're talking about decisions we have to make in an art context. But I do appreciate also that that if there are decisions to be made, that that be done in a way that doesn't in any way jeopardize, you know, our status and the way that we we operate according to the Brown Act and other conventions of, you know, public decision making. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Dittar, do you want to talk about the task forces like your recommendations for like the assignments of who you heard from who you didn't? Yeah, I heard from I think four folks. And so and if anyone wants to switch around or the folks that I didn't hear from want to switch around, we can we can make those adjustments. So for the diversity equity inclusion and access task force, I have Anne and Lisa. For engagement, I have Jeff and Melanie. And for project development, I have Kristen and Nathan. And again, that's not set in stone. This is starting point for, you know, what works for people. We can add like if someone wants to be on two, multiple people want to be in two, we can do that that we can have three. So right now, just a starting point with with one person, you know, one committee member on each one with two members total on each. So I kind of kind of open that up for feedback on that. If there's any comments or questions about that. First of all, I think that sounds great for me. I told you, Tara, that I really thought community engagement would be some place where I'd like to participate. And Melanie, I would really look forward to working with you on that. I think that'd be great. So I have a I guess this actually goes to this conversation we've been having about what's appropriate and what's not. So, Tara, as I think you're you're aware and and Raisa also is that we have a community engagement committee programs and community engagement for the museum. Would it be appropriate or inappropriate to for let's say Melanie and me to have conversations with members of that committee or to go to other organizations and have conversations with people who are also interested in community engagement. Yeah, definitely appropriate. Yeah, and I think the point is connecting you guys with all of your connections outside. It would be yep. I think that is what's going to make the task forces successful. And I can provide, you know, resources there too. I also think connecting you with our city's Office of Community Engagement would be a great place to get some input resources, connections. So, yeah, it's not there's, there's, I don't know, I would say anything you can come up with is probably great and go for it. That's great. Melanie, just so you know, Magali Teyes, who's the director of community engagement for the city, the department, the office that Tara just mentioned serves on our museum's community. So, anyway, we'll talk and we'll, I'm sure you have plenty of people to reach out to. So, we'll, I think- In Palo Alto, yeah. I'm just kidding. Melanie, we need to see your dog. Oh, she's so cute. Because you got that new puppy, huh? I did. Oh, my gosh. Lola. So cute. What's your name? Lola. Oh, no. That's a great name. She just got a new collar today with her name on it. She's fancy. She's like torn it. Okay, then show and tell. Unofficial mascot for today's meeting. Yeah, she's so narrow. I can't believe it. You're lucky. So, I would just say the same thing goes for the other task forces as well. So, the diversity, equity, inclusion, and access, and project development. I mean, there are resources that I can assist with, obviously, in both of those, but the outreach that you want to do individually or as your team, the two of you on each group, go for it and start getting information, finding resources, collecting people you want to talk to, talk to those people, but again, the city can provide some resources as well. The other thing that I was thinking of is I, that kind of goes along with some of the conversation we were having and kind of plays into these task forces as well as what kind of, I don't know, exposure or maybe even professional development can we assist the committee with on certain topics that might help with broadening that kind of access to information or what you were talking about, Melanie, in terms of seeing how other public art committees function because there's a lot of resources there that I could help connect you to that are maybe more, that I've had access to as an arts administrator, but that will probably be helpful for committee members as well in some of these areas. So, I'll look into that and see if we can come up with a way to provide some of that, those resources. So, I have another question. So, you know, we have these meetings and then we come up with what we're going to do and then Tara gets to do it. So, how do we, like now, like revamping the agenda, how do we, how does that happen so that it doesn't just fall on her? Well, so I can give you my experience on the subcommittee is I actually have on the, you know, development subcommittee, one of the last things is upcoming agenda topic or items so that I can understand what you want for the next one. And I'll say, hey, look, we have to have this and this for sure. But what do you want to talk about as well? And so it helps you leave that. And in the meantime, I'm like constantly listening for stuff and then committee members will email me like this is coming up or I heard X from, you know, Y. I'll capture those and sometimes I'll put those on that sort of like idea generator list that I have or and we'll bring that up in that way as well. So yeah, I'll get like for those set that subcommittee, I'll get individual emails or and I have it on there for next next agenda. Yeah, and I think that, you know, simply reorganizing the agenda is something that I can easily do. It's mainly the content that we want to put in it that I would look to you for ideas for. I mean, I think I based on some of the other committees and subcommittees that Rice has been involved with, and other ones that I've seen, I think that we can come up with a starting point to say here's what might work better. And then it can be an item on that list review current committee agenda format. And then we can talk about if it's working or not. So, you know, I think that that's just that that's a that's a relatively easy piece that is not super burdensome for my time. It's just a matter of what what do we want to see on there obviously there will still be the action items that we'll need to include if there's a project that needs approval or whatever that might be. But I think that this looser format of ongoing discussion topics or idea, ideal list of ideas or we'll get some ideas from from looking at some examples on how we might structure that so that there's more freedom there and there's open discussion time, which I think has been missing from the agendas for a long time. And then Kristen, you still have to do that thing where there are public comments or whatever. But yeah, and I think that it's like, you know, the committee's not supposed to we have an obligation through kind of the transparency requirements to make sure that there's some amount of description on what's going to be discussed on the agenda. So the public knows do I need do I want to should I attend this meeting so I can be a part of this right. So we just, you know, being somewhat careful to stay within what we have on our agenda is still one of those kind of formalities that are important. But I think if we're reorganizing it in a way where there's open discussion about possible ideas, I mean what that's very broad that gives a lot of leeway there. One more question. When does how that how is the agenda published? The agenda is published through the city's legislature program same as city council. So Eileen does that for us as a recording secretary. I have to get her all of the information currently about five days prior to the meeting so she has enough time to publish it with the is it 72 hour Brown Act requirement currently that might change because the city did enact a open government ordinance which pushes back timelines for the public to get information about public meetings right currently it does not apply to city boards commissions and committees but it will in the future and so we will have our timelines will be moved up in terms of what information we need to have prepared and when the agenda will be published but currently it's it's 72 hours so I aim to get things to Eileen about five days prior. And you know oh go ahead and also I do we have each other's contact info like do I have it somewhere that I can't find it or maybe I need to get it again. I will send I think when I emailed you the kind of packet for a new member I included a current one from at that time now there's new members so I will generate a new one and send it to all of you. So it was the idea that like if we formed these ad hoc committees and people kind of settled up where they want to be you would just start having dialogue outside and that is that encouraged and I'm not trying to be you know dim about this I just like how do you see it rolling is it like a fair amount of conversation is there checking in regular little meetings like how'd it go. Yeah I would suggest that there are regular meetings for each task force that has staffing support so myself and or Raisa and then and then there could be assignments that you guys are working on outside of that that you're then gathering information talking to people and bringing back but there's a conversation with a with a in a separate task force meeting that that then can be you know thoughts can be organized and discussed in a way where then you can bring an update back to the full APPC at the next meeting. That's what I was imagining. Raisa do you have any I know you've worked more with those types of smaller task forces. Yeah I mean I think that that works okay it would be great to have that be an agenda item towards the end of our meeting when we go over project updates possibly before that we'll we'll have time to converse about order of the agenda. Melanie I really like your comment about how to breathe some life into the agenda to make it a little bit more exciting but also to make sure that we have all of the necessary items in there so I would like I would like there to be an opportunity for subcommittee reports or updates during during our meeting time. And you know I this is just to make it easier on you Kristen. I actually you have to keep the same the essentially the same content of letting you know some of those formal statements that you have to read but you can rewrite that to make it easier for you just but you just have what I'd say look if you're if you're joining on or whatever you have to have the certain elements of it but feel free to rewrite it into your own words so that it feels more less formal even to you do you know what I'm saying like you do personalize it and I think even those things begin having a difference in how we as a culture on the committee interact or feel. Thanks for the advice. Well I mean I read it I was like oh I can't get through this um sorry I wrote it you can you can do that if you keep the just a bit there yeah absolutely great are there any further comments or questions to further our discussion this is a discussion item only so we are not voting uh on this item today I think it was a really great initial conversation and a great jumping off point for our our ad hoc committees so next I would like to move to item 5.3 we have project hold on just make sure there's no public comments on this item first thank you Eileen are there any public comments on our appc activation discussion there are no raise hands at this time okay now I will move to item 5.3 project updates Tara staff will present updates on current projects great I just have a few quick updates for Imagine Art in Old Courthouse Square the contract with Blessing Hancock was finally finalized at the end of last month and so we have moved forward with the next steps with that project which included a onsite visit with the fabricator and installers for her piece and walked through with all of the applicable city departments public works ADA building engineering parks all of us were onsite with with these guys to look at the site talk about how it will be cited what constraints or requirements will be in place how the permitting will work in all of those types of details and David Ward our project manager for that project has been following up since then with lots of additional questions and answers and all of that kind of stuff to get them settled for the next steps with that and then the engagement portion of that piece to collect the words and phrases that will be on the actual artwork is going to be starting very soon the artist was ready to move forward but we wanted to make sure that we are using a community advisory group to help with that process that was a main kind of sticking point not sticking point a main focus of the selection panel's discussion about that piece that the engagement with the community to collect the words and phrases was robust and thoughtful and solicited the kind of input that I think was desired for the project and so we have formed a community group that includes representatives from various organizations community members and our office of community engagement to start looking at how we will do that outreach the words there will be outreach through surveys but also school specific targeted school outreach and and community you know what kind of on the ground community events or activities can we do to get people interested in participating so we will be undertaking that or starting that process very soon and wrapping it up hopefully by I don't know I'm going to say June but we'll see how long we need for that part of the process for the fifth street parking garage project the selection panel met last week to kind of kick off the process and turned in they just on Friday turned in their scores of the 35 submissions that were the pre-screen kind of viable submissions and so we will be meeting again tomorrow with the selection panel to look at the top three see who ended up in the top three based on the selection panel scores and have a conversation about about that process and then once those are finalized those three are finalists are finalized they will be invited to submit their proposals for the actual project and then we'll be moving on with that process and then just quickly maintenance and conservation wellspring in coffee park by wow house the water drop sculptures received an anti-graffiti sealant coat from our conservators to protect it ongoing and it'll be regularly maintained through our contract with our conservators and did it have was it tagged no no this was a preventative measure of that we had planned on doing okay yeah no no damage has been done um I think that's it but happy to answer any other questions on ongoing projects if anyone has any do any of the committee members have any questions or comments about our ongoing projects yes I have a question are the members for the fifth street the community the art public places community members that are in the selection panel yes thank you yes the selection panel consists of Kristen and Anne as representatives from the appc and then we have Pauline block is with cornerstone as a developer downtown uh or works for cornerstone and then um we have let's see who else do we have we have chris denny who runs a design firm in downtown san rosa he runs the engine is red engine is red no is that it yeah okay sorry I always get that confused with the other one okay sorry um and then we have um kim nado who's our parking manager um and oversees the operations of the parking garage the site of the art project and then I know I'm forgetting somebody I don't have my list right in front of me can you remember christina and who's the last person uh let me get my list hold on hold on let me see if I can find it I'm sorry I didn't have that open sometimes when you're writing up your notes you forget those basic things the wrong notebook oh no worries then okay I think oh I know sorry last person Jen jennifer betheke she's a art historian and professor at Sonoma state and currently the interim director of the Sonoma state uh university art gallery ah okay sorry my apologies no that's a remember her name thank you for reminding brain fog yeah so that's the team that's the selection panel working on that project I'm excited and just so this gets asked every meeting what's happening with the fountain question I will be I will be bringing a full report to you soon very soon on this topic um I have been working very closely with um the conservator that we hired way back for the removal of the panels from the original fountain as well as with the family of Ruth Asawa on how we move forward with this project given how fragile the original panels are and so our conservator has raised additional concerns now that they've been in storage for so long and we're now looking at bringing them back up here on how fragile they are and so one of the options that is being considered is casting them in bronze oh and then installing the bronze cast onto the fountain um and uh and and there's some other considerations that go into that um in terms of um ongoing maintenance costs regarding bronze versus the originals um and then the support structure that would be needed to install the originals versus bronze anyway so I will be bringing a full report to you soon with all of the kind of background information on uh all of this that we've been working on as well as the um costs costs that we're looking at for each option and the timeline potential timeline um as far as I know there there is a a tentative soon but not specific start date for the actual fountain construction being done by QQ Trail Corporation and so I you know that is that is something that we're still coordinating with them on obviously the panels have to go and whatever form they're on in have to go back on that the fountain so there's still that coordination there but working very closely with the family to ensure that we're doing um the best thing to prolong the artwork slice span um is where we're at right now. I'm curious to know this is just a question regarding the fountain and if doing bronze will that change the shadowing of the relief? Well it will not necessarily I wouldn't say the shadowing obviously the color may be different and the texture may be different um and that's something that the family's considering closely obviously they want to preserve the original intention of their mother's work as much as they can but they also understand the fragility of the material that was originally used and how poorly it's um it's aged um since 1985 so um so yeah there's there's definitely those considerations um the you know you can treat bronze in a variety of ways to create different colors and effects you know with patinas and so that that is one thing that is being explored is can patinas or other treatments to the bronze um close as closely as possible get to the original intention of the artwork. Thank you. Great thanks for the update Tara are there any other questions Eileen do we have any public comments for this item? We have nowhere at eight right one more time we have no hands raised at this time. Thank you for clarifying. Great now moving on to item six we have committee reports. Seeing don't believe we have any committees to report on at this time? Well that's a time for any committee members to share uh anything they'd like with the committee if there's anything any committee member would like. So committee member reports committee member reports so previously this had been any arts events attended or um any items of notice to alerts to our other committee members okay. I want to raise that it's a really cool thing Jeff at your museum that you took the golden mailbox the portal and um installed it in the history side I think that's brilliant and um it continues to do it's it's going to change in morph but that was such a creative project and it hit a chord in at the time and and to use it as a way to record I just I really appreciate the thoughtfulness and the space allotted and I I got to see it on I was kind of involved with it as a participant because I have a postal mail thing I was bringing up from LA and I got to know Jessica just through the portal and um so anyway I had a special spot that it just really well done so I'm excited to see what how it's going to engage people continuing on. So kudos. Thank you for mentioning that and um yeah the portal project uh it's got such an interesting story and so uh one of the things that I love about our museum because we're an art and history museum we can sort of look at it's like okay there's sort of a creative aspect to what this um project was in terms of the way it engages the public and encourages people to think creatively about the letters it invites people to write letters to the future or to the past but um then um part of the story are it includes the U.S. Postal Service um a cease and desist letter because of this gold mail box sitting there I guess they didn't like that so um we thought it was really appropriate to bring it into our building because of course our um our building is the old host office yeah so it's it's just it's a perfect fit um and we're also partnering um with the with the city with um public art with with the Sarah Downing installation which is now in our window gallery so I wanted to mention that as well where we're really pleased that we could partner um on that and then of course we have um our entire museum both buildings and the sculpture garden open now so please come and encourage um encourage everybody you know but wear a mask be prepared to continue to social distance I must must include that information great thank you do any other committee members have a report to make I have one more thing I did two things this weekend the other thing was I went to the monarch project um uh presentation of their um down on sabastable road they finished a large mural on the food complex I don't know if you've seen it but um I got to volunteer on it but I just wanted to go it's kind of unfortunately a cold and windy night but um Friday but it was just uh really great and um just wonderful to see that it's iterating out to more artists had tables and I just love that kind of kind of grassroots thing going on so that was great and I hope you're following what they're doing it's exciting yeah I have a question um maybe this will be something that comes back um later on through um the community engagement task force but I'm thinking about the artist Maria de los Angeles who is working on a mural uh coming up very soon in Glen ellen and I know she's going to be in town and being that she's originally from Santa Rosa even though the project itself isn't here in our city um would it be something that perhaps if we want to um host an event or sponsor whether it's virtual or in person with an artist who might be doing a project in the area if it relates to Santa Rosa in some way shape or form is that something this that that would be appropriate I guess is the question for APPC to be involved in I think that I don't know exactly um I don't have an answer exactly other than I know that something informal or something um that's more social is is fine I think that um you know we there's probably a way to work it out there's restrictions that we have like our funds have to be used in Santa Rosa right but I mean obviously we're not commissioning the project so I think that there's a way to honor her as a Santa Rosa artist um through this committee I know we could find a way to do that if that's the the desire actually I think she also is commissioned to do a mural with um Sutter Health which is in Santa Rosa although it's a private commission so but that might be a whether we're um Maria or another artist I think it's sort of a general question about um this I guess this um committee's relationship to projects that are not our projects to me that what is interesting is not like what is the specific project but is taking advantage of presenting the fact that an artist is here and and um asserting our connection in Santa Rosa while she's here um is I think an interesting concept I always think about like um the AIA or AIGA kind of lecture series um and I think that's interesting especially interesting if there's a way we can um sort of uh participate passively like uh sponsor like help sponsor uh something or you know what I mean it was the other year when AIA was able to partner with the city and did that temporary seating installation in courthouse where that was a really neat coordination and connection program so I that was amazing that was wonderful I would like to see more of those partnerships in the future yeah and again it's that taking um advantage of uh an opportunity just because it exists versus um because we have ourselves a project I think is good yeah and I'll just mention um the partnership with the AIA um I've been thinking about this ever since that project happened that I was involved in something um on the east coast years ago in which the public art program put together a temporary installation I think was up for about six months but with architects and writers who created um what they called follies but it was just a series and sort of an open space and um the we got the university and a lot of nonprofit organizations and all of these different entities um together corporations to sponsor each one of the follies and then it was so successful we came back a couple of years later and put scientists and sculptors together to as collaborative teams to create projects so it might be a fun thing to look at to actually generate a more massive collaborative collaborative kind of a project in the future where just a lot of people from different walks of life can come together to to create projects um very difficult to do if you're trying to create something permanent but for a temporary installation yeah it can be really great you know um Tara along these lines like maybe um you know in terms of those updates are sort of going back to this is where I'm like the brown act because it but relating it back to the previous item in terms of idea generation um is I wonder if it's would be worthwhile talking in this committee about um the out there SR program because we tried to link it into the strategic plan to sort of um expand the the arts related arts and culture related opportunities but again it's a slightly different purview but I mean that becomes the enabling vehicle versus maybe the public art fund do you know what I mean yeah I I do in between I do think that that's um a part of what we wanted to connect for those two programs through being able to do broader types of events and programming um on both sides I mean both with both ways it goes both ways so I think that that's definitely something that that we should talk about I mean I know we're gonna start our strategic planning specifically um more focused on that um and I perhaps there can be like an overlay with public art program as part of that um process that would include the committee as well all right I had a question uh so this is relating to something Jeff when you were noting that Maria de la Santa Rosa she might be doing a project for Sutter hospital I remember that there had been an annual review of ongoing projects that are not or sorry on private property not in the purview of the public art division uh do those reports typically happen on a certain time each year or yeah I did I was just looking back at last year I did last year's in uh April so or I think we skipped last year's because we were our our meetings were really canceled for the first part of 2020 um due to the shelter in place so I believe it was 2019 was the last time I did a report and it was in April so I can prepare one for the next meeting I was just looking through um how much you know how much how long it had been since I had done it so for Sutter just so you know they're they're even though it's Santa Rosa it's outside of the city limit so that building was not considered um uh required it was not a requirement for them to do the public art they're doing it anyway um but it was not a part of the city's program or requirement. Gotcha thanks for the clarification well I would look forward to getting a report on on those ongoing projects very soon so thank you okay if there are no more committee member reports I'll move on to department reports now item seven right yeah I just I wanted to mention one brief thing um that just while we were having our meeting I received an email from one of our um planners in planning and economic development about the general plan update um and so I wanted to bring that up to the committee members attention that you may know I've mentioned it before that that San Rosa is going to do a general plan update um over the next two and a half years two years uh and so starting on May 13th the team they're called Santa Rosa Forward uh team will host a series of public workshops uh to learn what people envision for the future of San Rosa and so there's a request for uh the planner Andy to come and present to this committee at our June meeting so that um he can get some feedback from from all of you so I just wanted to bring that to your attention but also encourage you to visit the Santa Rosa Forward website which has all the information about the general plan update process and ways that you can get involved and I believe that website is santarozaforward.com and chair keeper I just wanted to let you know that um there uh Nina Bono has her hand raised for public comments great um thank you let's take public comment Nina and just one moment while I give her permission to speak and that Nina you should be able to unmute and let me just quickly uh share the timer for you can you and Nina are you able to see the timer yes wonderful thank you so I just wanted to add that I've been listening to the meeting and there were several times when I wanted to make comments but I have not done that before and the raise the raise hand feature um by the time you said it it was too quick and I didn't know when I was supposed to raise my hand and if you have um members that are attending from the public um that maybe if maybe some people are more familiar with zoom than others and that um that might be an obstacle to people being able to participate in the meeting so I will just submit my comments that I have in an email to Tara thank you thank you Nina um you know if it's okay we can go back as I mean I think it would be fine if we go back and allow her to speak in the comments if you feel that's okay and Kristen sure I would be fine to move back in in our agenda and go back to public comment for a specific agenda item uh are we able to communicate am I able to have a live conversation with Nina uh yes and I um was just going to say given um how we're doing this um would you be all right if I um don't put the timer up because we would be resetting it for each for each item does that work for you sure and and Nina you should be able to speak you've been unmuted am I okay we can hear you yes thank you okay um there's a lot of comments so I'll just submit them but the one comment was there've been um several meetings before when I've wanted to attend and I went searching all around trying to figure you know on the city's agenda trying to figure out how to get into the meeting and I have a hands up over most um public members because I have Tara's work cell phone and so I just when I was frustrated a couple of times I just said Tara can send me the link and then so I was really happy to see that you put the link right in the agenda but here's somebody that really wanted to participate in is really familiar with art and public places and it was really um kind of an obstacle and so um I just want you to know that I was persistent but there might be other community members out there that want to participate in these meetings and just don't know how to get in okay have there been has there been any other public attending in the last three or four meetings no yeah we've had public reasons okay because I haven't heard any public comments at all during the time that I've listened okay well um thanks for the opportunity to address to good work thank you are there any other public comments at this time there are no other public comments at this time Melanie had a comment no I was saying bye sorry oh bye that was that pick me that was goodbye you bought the cow Melanie all right well seeing that this is the last item on the agenda and with that we are officially adjourned on this meeting our next meeting of the art and public places will be on Monday June 7 thank you everyone for participating thank you thank you it was good to see everybody Melanie I'll follow up with you and uh Mina if she can still hear nice to hear your voice