 Coming up on DTNS, why my book Live Users lost all their data, Mozilla wants to collect your data for science, and Kristoff Zajakdenek is here to talk about tech accessibility for people with more business. This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, June 25th, 2021 in Los Angeles on Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. From Columbus, Ohio, I'm Rob Dunwood. Drawing the top tech stories from Cleveland, I'm Len Peralta. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang. Kristoff Zajakdenek is here, producer and host of the podcast, I'm Kind of a Big Deal. Kristoff, thanks for joining us. Hey, thank you so much for having me. This is awesome. I'm honored to be here. We were all just talking about movies we've never seen, but feel like we have on Good Day Internet. If you want that wider conversation, become a member at patreon.com.dtns. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Google started testing a new prompt and search, warning that, quote, if this topic is new, it can sometimes take time for results to be added by reliable sources. The company said that the warning will generally only apply to developing trending topics designed to not say if the information is right or wrong, but that the search involves an updating situation that may change with more information. Amazon has a couple of acquisitions to note. AWS announced it acquired the Secure Communication Service WICKR, W-I-C-K-R, WICKR, which claims to be the only collaboration service that meets the security criteria of the NSA. AWS will continue to offer existing WICKR services and offer WICKR services to AWS customers effective immediately. Amazon also announced it intends to acquire the podcast hosting and monetization platform ART-19 with last year's acquisition of Wondery. Amazon now holds a podcast content creation studio, hosting platform, and the ability to sell audio ads. Facebook confirmed its testing, letting some users create Instagram feed posts from their desktop browsers. Previously, posts could be viewed on the web, but only created within the mobile apps. It's not clear how many users have access to the test. I do not, not as of this recording, but those who do can select aspect ratios, apply built-in filters, and do some basic edits. The UK's Competition and Markets Authority launched an investigation into if Amazon and Google are doing enough to crack down on fake reviews. Although the regulator cautioned it hasn't reached a view of whether either company has broken the law or not as a result. This follows a broader initial investigation. The CMA launched in May 2020, assessing several platforms, internal systems and processes for handling fake reviews. Google Contacts received an update to bring it more in line with Google Workspace. The app, the web app now shows a full screen of a contact rather than just a pop up with name and email address, phone number, office location, all displayed in a profile card with a separate management chain showing how the person falls into the org chart and then a list of recent interactions with that contact. All right, let's talk a little bit more about what is a personal nightmare for me and I suspect a lot of us. Rob, tell us about this. So Western Digital's My Book Alive series of network attached storage derives went out of support back in 2015 and has not received firmware since then, but some people still use them and some people reported Wednesday that their drives have been factory reset without their knowledge, wiping all of their data. Log files from one user showed that the reset command was sent remotely. My Book Alive devices have a firewall and can still communicate through the internet via Western Digital's My Book Alive cloud servers. Western Digital advises customers to disconnect My Book Alive and My Book Alive Duo from the internet. The company does not believe its own servers have been compromised, but it does believe that My Book Alive devices were compromised by a threat actor. Western Digital believes an unattached remote code execution vulnerability discovered in 2018 may be at fault. That vulnerability requires the attacker to know the IP address of affected devices. No malicious actor has taken responsibility or contacted users of yet. Bleeping Computer says some users have reported success for covering files using Photorec. Yeah, so that's not something anybody wants to wake up to to find all their network attack storage files gone. I have a few minds about this. They stopped supporting it in 2015. They told people they were stopping supporting it. They did the nice thing and said, we'll let you keep connecting to our cloud servers. We won't cut you off if you want to keep using it, but essentially you're using it at your own risk at that point. Six years after updates is a long time to go before something like this happens. I think this is getting a lot of attention not just because of the horrible nature of it, but because it affected so many people. It seems like it's affected quite a few users. So a malicious actor out there probably did some scan for IP addresses. Maybe they compromised accounts, although Western Digital doesn't think it was through their servers if they did, and then just did vandalism, wiped people's data off. Another reminder that you should always have multiple backups of your data. Don't rely on just one space. Multiple backups of your data and it's you're living dangerously when you go for years. We're talking over half a decade now that these things have not been supported. And I actually believe it or not had a, you know, my book live. I didn't have it very long. I only had the one terabyte version. So I ran out of disk space quite quickly with it and then moved to something to just allow me to have more disk space. But I know me. If the thing is just sitting there working, I'm probably not going to unplug it regardless of whether it's, you know, supported or not. I may not even know that it's not being supported. If it's just one of those things is kind of out of sight out of mind. So I do really feel bad for people who are in this situation because although some folks are able to recover their data, there's going to be quite a few who probably are not. They probably didn't have a backup and that data is just gone. So yeah, I feel bad for folks. And I know a lot of folks are really upset with Western Digital, but what can they do? They told you six years ago that they were going to stop supporting this stuff. And actually it's longer than I think they told you back in 2012 that they were going to stop supporting it. So before they stopped in six years, I think they gave you three years after they stopped, you know, after they told you. So it's it's been a while. Yeah, it's definitely a good reminder of something's going out of support. It connects to the internet and six years go by all a perfect storm for something like this to happen. I mean, it's very unfortunate and it is good news that there is at least some recovery for some of these users, depending on, you know, like photo data and stuff like that. But yeah, I mean, I doubt it was the majority of folks saying everything will just be fine forever. They kind of just forgot about it. Yeah, this time goes by. I'm honestly shocked it took this long because more than a few people had these, you know, this was one of the first relatively inexpensive NAS devices that you could get. I mean, I think the one I got was like 400 bucks, which is not insignificant. But for a NAS device back then, those things, you know, like a Drobo costs like a grand. So the fact that this is coming in 40% of that cost, you know, a lot of people pick these up. Yeah. And then the question becomes with a device having a known vulnerability for three years, what's Western Digital's responsibility when they've said they're not going to support it anymore to let people know about that vulnerability, maybe push out a patch anyway. Kristoff, on a scale of one to panic, how does this story make you feel? It makes me panicked in that I need to probably get another hard drive that to put my audio shows on because they're all on one at the moment. And yeah, I need to probably allocate some some dough for something that I can carry around that isn't connected to the Internet or supported by anything else. It's the rule of threes. There's the data on your device. There's the data locally stored with you. And then there's the data stored remotely, usually in a cloud service. That that's the standard if you want to be be extra safe. Just the cloud, the cloud just like freaks me out in general. I was I was storing stuff before clouds were around. And so I don't know that I completely trust that, especially when there isn't a cable going to the cloud. I don't know. I just I feel like I'm safer having it on my orange drives that I can drop down the stairs and they'll still work, you know. Yeah, the idea with the cloud is that it's not your only place and maybe not your place for sensitive data. Sure. It is another place. In case there's a fire or some other disaster or something that you've got something that isn't in the same place as you. Yeah, absolutely. But I mean, also, what is your do you have a schedule for updating all of your backups? I mean, do you do that every month? I've been really, really bad at having a I have a lot of that stuff that just it just doesn't just goes. Yeah, yeah. Well, Microsoft announced Thursday that starting on July 28th, any app maker that uses its own payment system, not Microsoft, brings their own to the Microsoft store won't have to share any revenue with Microsoft. They're like, you bring your own payment system. We're cool with that. We won't take try to take a cut. But that's if you're not a game, doesn't apply to games. Microsoft is reducing the cut it takes from games listed in the Microsoft store from 30% to 12% starting August 1st. But it's still taking a cut if it's a game. And yet, as we mentioned yesterday, Microsoft is using the Amazon app store to distribute Android apps in the Microsoft store, which is potentially a way around that. Your Android games are exempt. It seems anyway, could steam or Epic add their stores as well? The Verge actually asked Windows head Panos Panay this question and he said Windows already in many way host these stores. And if we can host it through the Microsoft store, then of course, for sure, it means as others want to come to the store, they're very welcome. As a matter of fact, encouraged. And that's kind of why we're building out some of these policies. Panay envisions a Microsoft store that lists apps no matter what store they're actually in. So it seems like Microsoft is open to all comers. They would like steam and Epic to do what the Amazon Android store is doing as well. Rob, what do you think? When I first saw this and heard this, I actually watched that live event a couple of days ago and my my initial thought was all apps, really? That's that's huge. And then you get to the fine print and it's like, oh, no, not not games because in here's my thought on this. The developers that are big enough that they would actually build their own monetization system into their app. These are not insignificant development efforts. It takes it takes a lot to do that. So the big apps, Microsoft has to court them. You've got to do something to get them there because they're pretty much good to where they are. It's like, no, I'll just keep doing it on the web and make my money the way I used to make it. Oh, it doesn't cost me anything. Sure, I'll come over. Games on the other hand, there are, you know, it seems like developers when they get into developing games is kind of one of the first places that they go, even if it's just gamification of an actual tool or something that you're building. So I see them saying, no, you still need to pay us because those are the ones that, oh, wait a minute, maybe we can actually make some real money on this if we don't have to give 30 percent to someone and Microsoft is, you know, I don't want to say that I expected it, but I'm not shocked by games being exempt from, you don't, we're not going to take your money. Yeah, it's that thing where you've got a really successful thing already and you're like, but do I want to change that one? Like, I'm not making anybody off the rest of the Microsoft store. That's easy to change, but we make a little money off those games. Yeah, but if you know, if you're steaming your Epic and you say, okay, 30 percent versus 12 percent, I mean, that sounds better. If the principle is we shouldn't pay, this is a good point. The implication is steam and Epic wouldn't have to pay anything if they get their store listed. It's only if you list your game with the Microsoft store, but steam and Epic would be able to do an end around that. I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah, that's a little twist that everybody might not quite realize. Okay, well, then then I think it must come down to well, either, I don't know, the handshake hasn't happened yet, or there's a little bit of, well, let's wait and see how Amazon does with Microsoft. Let's see, you know, what the interest looks like and to see if there's maybe a mad rush from some of the other big companies who think that this is a great distribution platform or it isn't kind of hard to say it. All right, Mozilla launch. Go ahead, go ahead, Rob. I was just going to say, not free forever. Yes, nothing is free forever if it ever was free. Mozilla, sometimes free, launched a data sharing platform called Rally that lets you opt into sharing your browsing data with scientists that are studying the web. Opt in. Rally is a browser extension that with your permission collects demographic data, technical data, location, and how you interact with the browser. Based on that data, Rally will then suggest studies that you can choose to participate in or choose not to. Up to you. You'll be told what the study's for, what data it's going to collect, and how it will behave. If you agree to participate, you will install a separate add on for each study. When a study ends, it's add on will uninstall. If you leave a study before it ended, your data will be deleted from the study's database. So it's trying to be really upfront about what's going on and when it's going on. Mozilla is also releasing web science. That's a toolkit that lets researchers create standardized browser based studies. Princeton University scientists are the first to take advantage of Rally with a study on how users find and share news on politics and also COVID-19. A group from Stanford University plans to use Rally to study the economics of sustainable news coverage. Rally is available now to US Firefox users. You have to be 19 years old or older. Mozilla plans to bring Rally to other browsers and countries in El Futuro. So Sarah and I signed up for this already. For me it was because I trust Mozilla. I use Firefox. I love the management, the transparency, telling me what they're going to keep, what they're going to not keep, and if it's a study like the Princeton study where I'm like, yeah, I would like to contribute to them figuring out that kind of stuff. And they seem like responsible real researchers. Sure, I will allow that one. If I see something sketch, I like that I can pop right back out and they'll delete my data. So I'm in on this. Sarah, I know you are too. Yeah, absolutely. I am the person who for years has been like, how do I get into Nielsen radians? I want my voice heard. Study me. Study my behavior. But in all seriousness, on this show, we point to studies and reports and years of research and surveys, internet surveys, phone surveys, all sorts of stuff. And we take great care into breaking down all of this data and being like, okay, how far along are we? It's just peer reviewed. All of this research is really important. And again, having the option to say, this is something I'd like to participate in, maybe not this. So it's not some blanket opt into a bunch of stuff that may or may not apply to you. And yes, being able to bounce out at will, I want to help experts better understand the way that we use the internet in a variety, in so many facets of how we use the internet. So yeah, I like this idea. I am a willing participant. I look at this and it's interesting to me that Mozilla is, they're being very responsible. They're telling you exactly what they're going to do, how they're going to do it, where your data is going to go, how you can delete your data relatively easily, all those kind of things. And I'm thinking, you told me all that and there's no way I'm ever signing up for this. However, when the, when the, there's a new app that's going to take every bit of data that I, that they possibly can get out of me, because it's giving me something for free. I don't even think about that in and sign up almost immediately. So, you know, I'm kind of playing the, you know, the, you know, the, you know, the guy that I'm walking around with tinfoil around my phone in my pocket, but I'm always leery about data. You know, I've watched a couple documentaries on just how much information Facebook and Google know about you, they know more about you than you oftentimes know about yourself. And this is not that, but it's still, do I want to give you data and I'm not even getting anything for it, just knowing that you're going to use it to, to make something better in the future? It's hard to trust. I don't know if I'm that altruistic. I get that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Chris Duff, would you do this? I, I, I, I signed, I signed, initially I sided with Rob because I will sign up for, for free apps and say like, yeah, I want to use this. So, take what you want. I, I want to trust Mozilla and, you know, companies that appear to be very transparent about where the information is coming from and what it's going to do. I don't know. There's also a part of me that they know everything already. So I don't know. Tom and Sarah really kind of sold it for me like, yeah, let's help. Let's make this better. And, but I don't know. I'm really on the fence as well. I feel a little bit gun shy to pull the, you know, to jump in on these things. You know, I guess, I guess one of the, the selling points for me is a group of scientists from such and such universities. Okay. This is a group of people who really care about this. Well, there's a lot of data that's flying around already. Where do you get that data from? I don't know. Facebook, monthly active users. It's like, it's, I like the idea of being able to say researchers here to hear, here is some data from me directly because I care about what you're doing and I want you to succeed or at least, you know, understand us all a little bit better. Well, I thought about my purpose and, you know, my show and how maybe people with dwarfism, if they were to study individuals and how they interact on the internet and the things that they search for and the stuff that is difficult for them, like maybe this is a way that scientists from Princeton or other universities can study and say, oh yeah. So these individuals, we could really help them out if we, you know, tailor their experience in a certain way. So that was, I was really trying to find the, you know, how it fits with my experience and my situation. And that's kind of what I thought of. Yeah, a good data set has a lot of different types of experiences in it, right? So you can contribute that. Yeah, absolutely, for sure. Hey folks, do you like what we're talking about on the show? You want to hear us talk about something else or add something that you didn't hear us talk about? One way to let us know is in our subreddit, submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddits.com. Well, we're at the end of accessibility week. We've talked a lot about different types of accessibility needs and technologies all week, though I will say a lot of our examples are about vision. There are a lot of other kinds of accessibility issues out there. Kristoff was kind enough to join us today to talk about his day-to-day experience with technology. Kristoff, can you give some examples broadly speaking of the kinds of challenges you and other people with dwarfism face? Yeah, absolutely. So thank you so much for having me on the show. This is really, really cool to be here. And dwarfism, I say this so many times, but it's really a mixed bag. And so I'll tell you a little bit about me. I'm four foot, four inches tall. I'm pretty proportionate and I'm very active and athletic. I went and surfed in Malibu this morning. So I have, you know, I'm out there and I'm living an active lifestyle. Still, when I go to the restroom in, you know, at a gas station or a restaurant or something like that, there are the, there are things that are motorized where they use the sensors. And I can use that, but I usually have to stretch and reach to just access all of those. And being four foot- It's not conveniently placed, right? It's not conveniently placed, you know, especially in the height and the distance. Other people with dwarfism experience much more mobility struggles. You know, some people will use devices such as scooters, wheelchairs, walkers, canes. I use extension pedals for driving the car. Other individuals who have shorter limbs than I do will use hand controls in order to do that. I don't use a seat underneath me, but I use a back to bring my chest forward. And so the seat is more comfortable in the car. Some people actually sit in, I don't know, kind of like adaptive car seats almost because their bodies are just so small, but you know, we're adults, we're leading these lives where we have to conduct business and get around town and do these things. So there are mobility issues. There's medical, surgical issues and there are a lot of social issues as well as you can imagine. You can't hide that I have short limbs. When you see me, you know right away what my difference and my disability is because it's right in front of you. And that's for everyone with dwarfism. So there are a lot of different things that I think, you know, so many different experiences with dwarfism. And it's, it all just, a lot of it, has to deal with reaching and and lifting and mobility and getting around. Do you find that it's easier to use or find accessible technology for your home technology than it is outside? It is, but I think that's really expensive. You know, I think that lowering countertops or, you know, finding, you know, electronics that just want to, that you want to bring down. That's, that's all changes that can cost money. Say if you, you know, purchase a home where those are out of reach, you know, I bring step stools wherever I go to, in order to, to reach everything and I'm constantly bending down and picking up the step stool and moving it around. So, a good buddy of mine is a CFO of an insurance company and you know, he has the money to build his own home but he doesn't want to make it accessible for him because when he goes to resell it or move, what average high person is going to want, you know, the thermostat at two and a half feet. It's really undesirable. Yeah. You have to go and change everything. I've never even thought about the resale aspect of that. You're right. Like you wouldn't even make it better for yourself because of the cost of having to rip it back out when you want to sell it. What about, what about day-to-day technology like phones and laptops, tablets? You know, what works for you there and what doesn't? The, the phone, I, I purchased a new iPhone a couple years ago and I was so disappointed because it was so much bigger than my iPhone SE and my hands are small and so I can't just operate the phone in one hand. I can't reach across the, the phone, I think I have a, an iPhone 10 and just getting around it is, is too big and it's cumbersome for me. So that technology is, is kind of frustrating. Stuff that, that does help is you know, sensors kind of do help on certain things. What about laptops? I really don't have, laptops and computers, you know, I really don't have any sort of issue playing a guitar. My, my fingers are kind of fat and short. So, you know, I'm not a guitar player, but like, I guess that is kind of an idea if you want to think about, you know, I don't have long slender or like short and slender fingers. My fingers are kind of like patty and wider and shorter. Are there some existing technologies you think are improving things or at least have the potential to get better? The way that I see it is that technology really has to be integrated with lowering. You know, that, that really gets overlooked. Like, the sensors really help. There's been so many times when I've walked into or tried to walk into a gas station or a convenience store and the sensor for the sliding doors, does not see me. And so I'll walk up, walk back, walk back up, and I'll have to wait for somebody else to walk up who's of average height so that the sensor sees them and the door is open. So, I, I think there are so many opportunities where, you know, people with shorter stature can really be considered and we are overlooked. What about social media? Is that a help or a hindrance? It's both. Social media is excellent as a way to expose people to people with dwarfism because there are a lot of individuals who are out there who want to show their bodies and want to show the experience of someone with dwarfism dancing or just existing in public because that really is how you normalize our experience. The thing about social media that is bad for us, in my opinion, is it's so easy to put up a video that diminishes our experience or makes fun of us and it's so easy for people to comment about, sorry, I'm probably going to hell for doing this, but this video is cracking me up, you know, and I see so many comments and I've spent a lot of time writing into YouTube saying, you know, this is offensive showing a little person doing this thing and just diminishing their existence as a human, you know, you're not you're not showing us in a light that is acceptable and just kind of pokes fun, it punches down at us, you know, and so I would love for some sort of filters or some sort of way to weed out those videos that are that go up or at least the, you know, the comments because they really don't help us at all. So it's a double edge, you know, a double as in so many things. They have them absolutely. Yeah. Well, Kristoff, thank you so much for being willing to share a little corner of your experience with us. Really appreciate it, man. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on the show before we finish up here. Let's check out the mail bag. We got an email from David in hot and humid Minnesota. Sorry about that, David, although you might like it, wrote in and said, I've been digging into the new Windows 11 information and I noticed that Windows 11 is going to require TPM 1.2 at minimum, prefer TPM 2.0 and really want whatever the newest version of TOM is when it finally comes out. My question for you is, is this ethical? There are millions and millions of computers out there that work just fine, run Windows 10 just fine, but don't have a TPM chip or any way to add it. So after 2025, just four short years from now, the systems will essentially be e-waste in filling up planfills. Would it not be more responsible for Microsoft to build in support for the newest TPM technology but still support computers that don't have it with Windows 11 or at least continue to support Windows 10 until such time that people have naturally moved off of it and upgraded their older computers? So there's been a lot of confusion around this and some of it is Microsoft's fault. Thursday, we said you needed Trusted Platform Module or TPM 2.0 to update to Windows 11 and that is what Microsoft says on its website, but that's only if you're a manufacturer selling a new machine. They want to have new machines have the newest TPM. Regular users only need TPM 1.2 which has been around since 2006. Now granted, not every computer made in 2006 had it but only the oldest CPUs will not have TPM 1.2. Microsoft will update its system checker to reflect this soon. In the meantime, if you're failing the system checker for Windows 11, look and see if you have TPM support turned off. You can turn it on and then pass the check. You don't need to have it on to update to Windows 11. And like I said, Microsoft plans to change that system checker to just look for the module, not look for whether support is on. I did not look to find out how many laptops, computers out there don't have a TPM at all but we have a great article from Tom Warren on theverge.com that is linked in our show notes you should go look at. Tom Warren did an excellent job uncovering why this became so confusing and why Microsoft is doing it. It's about encouraging better security because what a TPM does is stores your private keys in a way that software can't get to which can help combat ransomware and a whole lot of other things. So go read that article if you want to understand more but yeah, hopefully David, that helps you reduce some of your frustration with that because it's a lot more computers that will be able to upgrade to Windows 11 including my own which doesn't have TPM 2.0 it's got TPM 1.2 in it as well. Well if you have any questions like David did or you have an answer or a question or any comment at all you can send all of it to feedback at dailytechnewshow.com thank you in advance also shout out to patrons at our master and grand master levels today they include Dan Voiles Logan Larson and Mike Aikens we also have a brand new boss Dalen Gilbert who's now backing us on Patreon thank you Dalen. Woo yes Dalen oh my gosh yeah Dalen Dalen we gotta do it we gotta do boss Tom is so stunned with his joy it took him a second yeah I I'm super excited and if you become a new boss like Dalen did you will stun me as well so here's your chance just saying thanks to Len Peralta who has been illustrating today's show as he usually does on our Fridays Len what have you drawn for us today? Well I couldn't think of a better way to wrap up accessibility week than by creating a special print in honor of accessibility week if anybody who watched me this afternoon on my Twitch stream knew that I sweated this one out because I wanted to make sure I did this exactly I did it right but hopefully I did it right you can let me know in the comments it says it's the headline is Accessability and it's the image is a little logo that kind of mixes a lot of things that you guys touch it based on this week as well as technology and everything else it's just a daily tech new show is celebrating access to all this week and you can now look at you can get if you're a Patreon backer of mine you can go to Patreon.com forward slash Len and get this or you can go to my online store at LenPeraltaStore.com and thank you so much DTNS for celebrating accessibility week here I love this logo it's an ear an eye a wheelchair a magnifying glass all in one and if you're like wow that's a lot of things it doesn't look like it it's so well done but it's great thank you so much I sweated it really I wanted to make sure I did right by this so it was really great good job guys well good job Len thanks so much Rob Dunwood for being with us today Rob where can people keep up with the rest of what you do so you can always find me at all things at Rob Dunwood and of course you can get me on my weekly podcast we just did episode 505 earlier this week of the SMR podcast it's just smrpodcast.com good stuff Christoph Zajik Denick thank you so much for being with us today and letting us into your world a little bit where can people keep up with your work yeah absolutely thank you so much for having me on DTNS and you can find my podcast just about everywhere it's called I'm Kind of a Big Deal you can also find me on Instagram at Big Deal Pod we are live on this show Monday through Friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern that's 20 30 UTC join us live if you can and find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live we are back on Monday with Patrick Norton have a wonderful weekend talk to you soon this week's episodes of Daily Tech News show were created by the following people host producer and writer Tom Merritt host producer and writer Sarah Lane executive producer Booker and producer of Accessibility Week Roger Chang producer writer and host Rich Strafilino video producer Twitch producer Joe Kuntz associate producer Anthony Lemos Spanish language host writer and producer Dan Campos news host writer and producer Jen Cutter science correspondent Dr. Nikki Ackermans social media producer and moderator Zoe Deterding our mods Beatmaster W. Scottus1 BioCal Captain Kipper and Jack Shid modern video hosting by Dan Christensen video feed by Sean Wei music and art provided by Martin Bell Dan Looters Mustafa A Acast Creative Arts and Len Peralta also live art performed by Len Peralta Acast ad support from Trace Gaynor Patreon support from Stefan Brown contributors for this week's show included Allison Sheridan Scott Johnson Justin Robert Young and Rob Dunwood guests on this week's show were Shelly Brisbane David Woodbridge Jennifer Ash Andrew Davis Andres Stefik and Kristoff Zajak Denik and thanks to all our patrons who make the show possible This show is part of the Frog Pants Network Get more at frogpants.com