 Call the 7th regular meeting of the Common Council order city clerk Richards, which please call the roll Bowman Dberg Eberg Serta Davis graph Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemay or Radke Segali Stefan Sushia Van Akron and Vanderwill 16 present present approval of the minutes Olderman graph Thank you your honor. I would move that the minutes of the previous Common Council meeting be writ approved is written in the record There's a motion to second under discussion Not all those in favor please state aye. Hi the oppose motion carries Pledge of Allegiance I'd ask all of them and Kittleson to please join us I Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and To the Republic for which it stands one nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Thank you, Alderman Kittleson Confirmation of mayor's appointments attorney McLean I'd ask for a motion to confirm the appointments so more motion to second There's a motion to second all those in favor please state aye. Aye the oppose motion carries. Thank you Public forum city clerk Richards. I guess first on the list would be Susan Hundley Susan could I get your home address, please? Okay, and you will have five minutes Thank You mayor Perez and council for allowing me this opportunity tonight to speak It's probably going to be brief because I am speaking on The pluses of a room tax commission and I just attended a meeting to get the information So I do not have a prepared speech But there are a couple points I do think are important and I would like to make them one is Maybe some of you are as confused as I is that within five weeks the Sheboygan press changed their opinion on the room tax They wrote a very nice editorial Well, I thought it was nice because it was in favor of a room tax commission and then this Sunday They wrote an article about Actually was to do with the chamber contract with room tax, but they didn't include their opinion on a room tax commission which had changed but I Took the initiative to call my Knuth editor and he did explain to me that it wasn't a flip-flop per se They and we had a long discussion and I think we both got a lot out of it And some of the points that I made to him I would like to share with you But I will speak on this another time when I can get it in a little bit better Form it and one thing I would like to say is I definitely respect Ultraman graph and I respect your opinion that you do not see the Value of a tourism commission. I was on the CBP advisory board with you for many years and I'm not trying to change anybody's mind But until somebody can give me a really good reason I my mind is not being changed either So I will respectfully disagree with people why I certainly will not tell you that your opinion is not valid and One thing that when I was talking to mr. Knuth I said in an interesting point is when I did research I didn't just come up with this idea one day that hey Let's have a room tax commission. I started finding out that it worked in others and other communities One interesting point is there's never been a community to disband a commission. It is formed by the mayor It's approved by the common console. It's on a yearly basis if this is a bad thing Why do communities once they initiated have it the council you would not lose control if you are Disappointed or upset with somebody on this commission. You just do not renew that person after a year So I thought that was a big plus so far I've only been able to find pluses for tourism commissions for one thing it does have lodging Representation it has tourism representation. There is no Pain of these people. It's like any other commission I know I've heard certain all the person say they really do not like another layer of government at it But I've also heard these same Alterpersons when you speak of the police station say they want input from the police on the location because they consider them the experts Well in a way that's contradictory to what I'm asking I'm asking for input from people in lodging Tourism to have some input on how room tax is spent. We are the only people that do collect this money We have very intimate Relationship with the people giving this many money to the city of Sheboygan and I think we have a huge Vested interest of how successful the money is used in Sheboygan. There's no Lining our pockets with it I'm not going to comment on I Think city attorney McLean has explained to you several times what the state statute allows The city to do you can either actually? He has made the point that what you are doing now is you're acting as a room tax commission Because the state statute says in order to directly You can either spend the money directly that would mean pull it in the house Tell you the truth that has always been our worst nightmare So we've always thought okay Let's leave it with the experts the CVB and the chamber should really be working through a tourism commission That's that's what you need. You really needed tourism commission Now I know they say that they have representation from lodging have throughout the years But if it is the CVB advisory board that is not the same as a tourism commission It is after the fact the money has been spent and then they're told we're a commission or Collar calls their commission a tourism committee and as you know Collar is very very successful at promoting Collar, so I think that's a really good Point like I said, I really would like some time to put my comments together rather than bore you with fragmented Comments and just to skip to a different topic And I know none of you can believe I have anything on my mind besides room tax But there was a editorial also today, and I Susan my time is up. Okay. I won't discuss it Thank you. Sorry. Thank you Next on the list is August Marginal and August could you give me your home address, please 1610 north 11th Street in Sheboygan north 11th Yes, and you will have five minutes, sir Okay, my name is August Marginal and I want to thank Mayor Perez and all the other persons here today for this chance to talk I represent the two or 40 people that be behind me from neighbors against drugs and The reason I'm here tonight to speak on article number 752, which we're going to address here tonight And to give a little background on how we got that's article 752 We have drug dealers in Sheboygan and we have frustrated neighbors that didn't know how to handle it So two years ago and that got organized one of our main things was a look at what we could do And we provided a roadmap for working with those people in those neighborhoods who wanted to rid themselves of the drug dealers And we've to date if you watched the parade yesterday We had a sign on one of our vehicles that we've gotten rid of 59 drug houses in Sheboygan and we've cleaned out 15 neighborhoods That being we wanted to take another step and provide a sign for those neighborhoods where we've declared victory That would be put up on existing polls stating that drug dealing is not tolerated in this neighborhood and then our logo would be inserted and To report suspected drug dealing called four five nine three three four one most of those neighbors in those neighbors already know because they've worked with us and if they hadn't kept the drug dialeries and Got no word to us. We could not have helped clean out those neighborhoods Now at the last public protection and safety committee this request was put up to have those signs put up And it was denied and that's the reason we're going to 752 now I want to address two things that were brought up in that meeting one was there was no cost estimate And so we're talking about 15 signs to date and hopefully another 15 in the future I don't know how the unions work here in Sheboygan But if need be we'll put them up ourselves, so maybe we can address that cost issue there The other thing was Something has brought up it said it may portray a negative image to the city tours and Visitors and I'll address the word may because it means that we don't know for sure But it's a question that we have to address and I'm going to answer it in this way when we work in In these neighborhoods we go out and we do surveys and we talk to people with them know where the suspected drug houses are and at the end we talk them can we put a sign in front of your house an anti drug sign and Everyone would get one except the suspected drug house and occasionally you run into people who are selling their home or going to sell their Home and we run into a problem. How is that are going to affect people are going to look at my home and it's a valid reason You know there's money involved and we will honor their request one way or the other But one of the things we propose to them is to put themselves in the place of a person who's coming to look at that house Or in the case of these signs coming to look at a community Are they going into a neighborhood? They can't control the fact that there's drug dealers there But they're going into a neighborhood where the people are going to do something about it And I think that's a big plus and for the most part those people have on their own made a decision to let us put those signs up Now right now in the city of Sheboygan We do put up a lot of signs that are protecting our children There are some that limit the the speed of vehicles near schools are no right turn on red when children are present Presented or present and also signs that say there's a Jeff child in the area It shows that this city is concerned about safety and the safety of its children Well these signs are against the drugs and we're looking at the safety of everybody because drugs are here We're talking about just an area of no big methamphetamine house You'd think by now these people would know that this is an anti drug committee But we've got to put up signs to do that and so what we're looking for you to be as a part of our team We've got courageous citizens who working with us. We provided the road map They provided the drug diaries and like I say we got 59 drug houses out of Sheboygan to date Right now before we put up these signs. We're coming to you because you're our next step and We're asking that you be a part of our team and help us by putting those signs up only in in community Neighborhoods that have taken the courageous act of getting drug dealers out of their neighborhood and protecting their kids and their families Thank you. Thank you August Next on the list is Michael Schrader Michael, could you come up to the mic, please? Here's the sign and I need your address Mike. I live at 3920 South 15th Street South 15th South 15 Okay, and you will have five minutes. Thank you. Your honor members and mayor of the comic council I've had the unique Privilege of being involved with neighbors against drugs as a volunteer says a very inception two years ago Some of you are supportive of our efforts And some of you are not made as some of our leaders are not and some of whom are in this chamber this evening And I guess I'd like to address that real briefly with you It has been said that perhaps the sign it's not that large this sign might lend a negative connotation to visitors of our city well Let me tell you what might be negative negative might be hearing from a fellow citizen That she won't let her children out in Sidewalks at night because of the drug and in gang traffic Negative might be hearing from a citizen that perhaps They would want to move the first opportunity they had because of the drugs and illegal Gang activity and all the other things going on in the neighborhood Maybe being negative is finding out that there was yet another drug house After closing one down and maybe another one coming coming up Negative might be perhaps hearing about the a meth lab my accident in our community And for those of you who don't fully believe in what we're doing or don't fully support what we are doing I invite you down to step down from your ivory tower And perhaps spend an hour or two with one of these volunteers walking the once proud streets of our city and Discover for yourselves. What has happened? It's shocking these efforts of ours and your fellow citizens has not caused the city a plug nickel We've done it through fund-raising efforts in our part and through contributions who other citizens who support our involvement we asked that you Some of you perhaps reassess the Public Protection Saviors Committee decision to not allow this sign in those neighborhoods that that Want Jugs kept out of neighborhood and and for heaven's sakes who wouldn't Thanks for your time. Thank you Michael. Thank you very much Next we have mayor's comment and since this was put on the agenda of learn that it would be best for me That when I am going to make some comments that I'd be more specific Because of the open meetings law there needs to be I need to do a better job of giving notice On the agenda both to the common counsel in the community So I am going to skip that and the comments that I had to make I will either make them at another time We're just forward and email to you and Or a letter in the instance where some alderman don't have email. Okay. Thank you very much. Next we move on to a hearing All of us a golly. Thank you. I buzzed in at the wrong time. Excuse me. It's at the wrong time for what? I'm I wanted to pull a document forward, but I'll do it after the hearing We want to do it now before the hearing We need to do it after the hearing. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you There's a hearing tonight to amend the zoning map to change the use classification of property at 1515 Ontario Avenue from class and our neighborhood residential to class and our neighborhood classification I'm sorry. I'm sorry. What? 515. What did I say? 1515 I stand correct and 515 I'm sorry. What was that all the burden? I didn't hear you sir It's an unsolicited remark Alderman Berg. Please refrain from that comment Is there anyone that would like to speak on this hearing? Is there anyone that would like to speak on the hearing? Yes, sir, if you would please step to the podium not in front of the Please go around sir Council floor, sir, can I get your name, please? Could you repeat it again I couldn't hear How do you spell the last name? And your address 509 Ontario, okay, thank you I Guess my only concern is obviously I live right next door to this property Jacobson Ross is an excellent neighbor. I have no problem with them. My only concern is in the future. I was Wondering if they would ever move on What that would do to my property value and what might happen my other concerns are any Noise or light pollution that I might get if they decide to install a Big security light at the back door or anything or how that could be addressed. I have no idea how that's What you do to address concerns like that or if they put an air conditioning unit next to my house Just wondering how that's covered if that's done in Through this zoning or if that's going to change anything Mr. Stolk Lasky, would you like to address that please? Good evening mayor council Basically what we have here tonight is we're taking a look at rezoning the property at 515 Ontario Avenue from neighborhood residential and neighborhood office presently neighborhood residential allows for single families duplexes Some institutional uses like churches things like that What we're doing tonight is allowing Jacobson and Ross the opportunity to potentially make an application to expand their business to this Particular property we're looking at so what would happen in this particular case should the common council Approve the rezone to neighborhood office Then what would happen is the next step in this is that they would have to go through a site plan or conditional use permit Before the plan commission and typically those issues such as noise lighting More of the site planning issues are addressed at that point in time So so if the council approves this they still have to go through the site plan process for an approval This doesn't approve the use this just approves the a new designation and as far as the types of uses that can now Go in there if the council approves this to a neighborhood office. You're talking uses such as professional services which are Clinics doctor's office real estate retail Commercial and indoor attainment taverns Restaurants so so the use has an effect on the neighborhood and and should they move Those other uses would someone would have to come in again and apply for a site plan or a conditional use permit To change that use from Jacobson Ross to say Steve's restaurant or something to that effect Does that answer your question, sir Are you done speaking? You're welcome. Is there anyone else that would like to address the council regarding the hearing? Is there anyone else? Yes, sir. Please step up Trig Jacobson a trig my name is Trig Jacobson and I'm with Jacobson Ross to and your address tree 529 Ontario Avenue Thank you. I just want to let the council know that I have been Citizen I should like in all my life We've currently been at the location almost 50 years We've really tried to go out of our way to be a good neighbor provide good jobs And certainly deal with issues as they have come up I think it would certainly be our intention as a good neighbor to continue to be a good neighbor To address parking issues where they come up light issues where they might come up or sound issues Our intention really is to beautify the neighborhood to fix up old houses give them a second life and To provide good jobs and to do what we can for the community so I think Certainly would Wish for your support and in our continued growth And I'll let you know that we certainly do appreciate all that you continue to do for the city. Thanks much Thank you. Thank you very much Is there anyone else? We allowed to let him follow up Please sir Thanks, I just want to tell the council I I am in favor of Jacobson doing this too. I'm not opposed to it I just express concerns about how it's done. Thank you much, sir Is there anyone else who would like to address council? Is there anyone else? Not all of them drop your honor. I'll move that the hearing be closed. There's motions or second second You need discussion? Not all in favor state. Aye. Aye. You oppose motion carries. Thank you Alderman to golly Now we can do it 669 would like to be requested be pulled forward What is it we'll page nine six sixty nine Yeah, see song I'm sorry. Okay Okay, six sixty nine. Is there any objection pulling forward if not? Is there a motion? Oh, I'm in Susha Thank You. Mr. Mayor. I would like to make a motion that a general ordinance number 1505 be put upon its passage There's a motion in the second under discussion Oh, it's a golly. Thank you, Mr. Mayor I would like to make an amendment to this ordinance. I would like to have deleted Me and any commercial zoning district I would like to have it state any location within the city of Sheboygan limits so it would read Prohibiting encouraging and the congregating of seagulls by feeding or any other means in Any location with that the city of I'm sorry within the city of Sheboygan limits There's a motion in the second to amend accordingly under discussion Alderman retty Thank You your honor when I have talked to the city attorney Steve McClain about this original ordinance before we Came up with this in committee. We decided it was probably best to just put it to the area Right around the Washington Square Shopping Center for the simple reason being that that might be enforceable But to enforce it throughout the entire city would be totally foolish because how are you gonna stop somebody from feeding the birds in their backyard? The seagulls whooping down. I mean, there's just no way we can enforce such a law But we're really telling people as you can't feed the birds in your backyard anymore It's the way I would understand that to read. Thank you. Thank you, Alderman retty. Alderman Vanderweil Thank you, your honor. I agree with what Alderman rackey was saying and I would like the city attorney to To express your concerns about making it no feeding all city-wide Attorney McLean now. Thank you, your honor. I Did express that concern at the Public Protection Safety Committee meeting when this was first discussed I felt that the Number one, I think you ought to address To the extent you want to address the issue address the issue that's currently before you if If the issue becomes a larger one, I could see perhaps expanding the area that you're covering but As Alderman, Radke said and Alderman Vanderweil there, you know, there may be legitimate Feeding the seagulls in in people's yards or or whatever that it really doesn't create a problem You know, I think you ought to try to focus in on the problem area and address that and You know potentially raise an issue where one neighbor in on the north side of town in a residential neighborhood Don't like their neighbor or something they call the police because They put out some peanuts for the squirrels or something and and the seagulls Happen to get them and And argue that while there's two seagulls there and they're congregating I just I think it makes most sense to limit your focus to the extent you can if it becomes a bigger problem address that but I'm not generally not in favor of you know attacking one problem with kind of a sledgehammer it may May prevent some other protective activity that it's perfectly, you know, not a problem or All of us a golly Thank You. Mr. Mayor I would like to ask for a suspension of rules and have the floor open so that Mr Ben Nelson who is here from the Department of Agriculture, Wisconsin Department of Agriculture Has a time to speak please. There's no need to suspend the rules. We'll just make a motion to open the floor There's a motion a second all those in favor. Hi the opposed motion carries is The gentleman here. Yes, sir. Can I get your name, please? Okay, thank you Give Different opinion of The gull feeding issue here in the city of Sheboygan Normally basically what my title is is I'm a wildlife specialist with the US Department of Agriculture and I specialize with nuisance wildlife, particularly birds and I've actually visited the site over at Washington Square and It was at the time that I was there. It was my recommendation to the older people that were there that a citywide feeding ordinance Pertaining to gulls would probably be the In the city's best interest Due to the fact that this situation that is going on right now at Washington Square is Probably going to be a temporary situation the property owner there is I've spoken with him and he is Determined that next year that this will not be a problem on his property. He's going to take The necessary non-lethal abatement methods that we recommended to him to try and persuade the gulls to leave that area in doing that this flock of gulls that is Currently residing there and other gulls around the cities Will be displaced from their nesting colony where they were this year Which means that they could show up on the roof of this building or some other building And ultimately these birds are going to go someplace else in the city and they're going to cause another problem somewhere else And if you limit the feeding to this one area And I haven't seen the actual feeding band that you are proposing but You know you might solve the problem at Washington Square this year, but next year we could have the same The same situation the same time of year at a different location in the city so normally in any kind of Neustin situation we always the first recommendation that I normally always will make is eliminate any artificial food source And I've heard that there is concern that You know people that feed the birds in their yard Well, you know There could be some complications there You know make it specific to a certain amount of gulls or Make sure or or even food types or things like that and I think I think a city-wide plan is Is ultimately the what is ultimately going to happen? You know you solve the problem at Washington Square But you know every year you might be revisiting the same issue so I guess questions are from anyone or Do any alderman have any questions? Alderman so golly Thank You mr. Mayor mr. Nelson when it comes to the certain non-lethal things that Can be done in this area because I know we do have them the problem at Blue Harbor We have them at Kiwanis Park. We have them all over the city This just is not a private issue or commercial issue. This is a city-wide problem So I guess what I'm trying to say is that your what type of suggestions? Can you give us or would you be able to give us or are like public protection safety or? the forestry Commission Park Commission that we just formed as to how we can go about trying to not alleviate the problem This is nature. It's always going to be there, but how how else that we can start to Start to maintain and manage the population of the gulls here in the city. Okay. Oh well It sounds like there are some other locations than that are already dealing with some gull concerns and normally What I always will recommend before anything else is non-lethal abatement techniques and those could be anything from dog harassment Pyrotechnics mylar flagging There are no repellents that work very well for gulls they I Know that after we were at Washington Square We had some people ask us about different repellents Well, you know, maybe this would work or maybe this wouldn't work and you know gulls are scavenger birds by nature and most repellents work on The fact that they ingest the repellent or the toxicant and then it makes them sick and it scares the other birds away and It's been my experience anyways that the repellents that people have tried have not been very successful in dispersing gulls in situations where gulls do establish nesting colonies Or are beginning to establish nest colonies It is legal to go out and remove nesting material as long as there are no eggs or juvenile birds within the nest Once there are eggs or juvenile birds in the nest then a federal depredation permit would be needed to do any kind of management there and if it's Say a city park that has you know 2,000 gulls that are nesting there and there's 500 nests with eggs What what I would normally recommend then is obtaining a federal depredation permit which would then allow you to either Remove the nests and the eggs Or you could also add or oil the eggs and Addling or oiling the eggs basically makes the egg unviable and What happens in that process is that the adult bird will? Incubate a nest that is not going to hatch and during that time when they are Incubating that nest their reproductive systems will shut down meaning that once they realize their nest doesn't hatch They're past their breeding time of year and they can't re-nest removing the nests and the eggs the birds will try to re-nest and You know even last year We had a situation where gulls nested at this time of year so they are learning to adapt if they If they are a problem on business rooftops, which is very common Down in Milwaukee right now a lot of people are installing overhead wire grids over their rooftops that prevent the birds from landing on their rooftops and Generally The two species of gulls that we deal with the most here in Sheboygan Milwaukee Green Bay anywhere in Wisconsin generally are ring-billed gulls and herring gulls The situation that's going on currently here in Sheboygan is ring-billed gulls And generally the grids Are different in size for the two gulls just because they're different size Normally, I always recommend just going with this a 10 foot by 10 foot Wire grid and that will keep out ring-billed gulls and it's small enough that it will keep herring gulls out as well so that that would be a way to kind of keep gulls out of areas that you do not want them in terms of reducing the population or Managing the population egg-oiling it, you know if you do that for several years you will start to see a note a notable change in the size of the population in the area Because you know they aren't reproducing young every year also with gulls They don't like young that are hatched out this year will not They do not breed the following year from the year that they were hatched They don't start breeding until age two. So You know, you could have a thousand gulls that have hatched out here this year That are gonna come back here next year and we'll be feeding here But they won't reproduce until next year. So and Those are probably your best methods for population management The amendment before is always to just do we consider prohibiting feeding in commercial areas or citywide any area and I would agree with attorney McLean almond Ratkin almond Vanderweel that We may we may be creating a bigger problem than having to come back and deal with another area. That's commercial There are a huge number of people in Sheboygan that feed birds I'm one of them and I have gulls come into my house I don't want to get ticketed because gulls are eating off my feeders So it would create that kind of a problem just practicality wise I would I would imagine that they would create a more a more a Bigger problem than having the council come back and meet us as a committee But through one of its committees to address a particular feeding area in the community Alderman Ratkin Thank You your honor after listening to mr. Nelson, I would Make another motion to send this back to public protection and safety committee where we can work with mr Nelson and get the proper information and come back in the ordinance and specifically addresses what the seals eat What type of foods and we can study the issue a little bit more So I think he's presented some information here and give us a little bit more time to work with him and had this problem Because that way we can figure out what types of foods we need to Need to avoid and things so we can Educate the public much better than just so you can't feed seagulls There's motion and second referred back to public protection safety for me Just to clarify we're still needing to act on the amendment first before we Alderman Ratkin before we do anything Because that's what's on the floor right now Is there is there any other discussion on the amendment? Just the amendment Alderman Davis Honorable mayor just how broad is commercial zoning district it would vary throughout the community I would imagine We have a commercial zoning area in that area. It could be somewhere else in the blue Harbor district, so it would vary At least in my opinion Does that answer your question? I'm sorry. Would you like to address it? I just say it's Steve Sakolowski's here. I I Don't have in my mind where the commercial zoning districts are specifically throughout the city. I know Washington Square area and the You know where the seagull droppings were causing the problem over in the car dealerships on the other side of Washington Avenue the commercial zoning district and and I guess I'm not sure specifically if there's other similar commercial zones Throughout the city, but I think those are the main ones over in that area. That's that's why Reference commercial zoning district. Mr. Sakolowski. Would you like to add anything sir? I can't give you any type of formal square footage or approximate square miles or anything like that But any any area that you can think of that has any type of commercial development any strip You know Calumet South Business 14th Taylor Superior, you know, you just keep it all all the corridors that you're familiar with those are all the commercial areas in town So I mean it's it's a substantial amount of area But I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to give you a square footage Thank You Mr. Kaloski Alvin Berg. Yes, thank you your honor. I guess this is a question for the wildlife specialist Do the fledglings imprint to the hatching area? Given that the commercial areas typically are a little broader in terms of acreage sure Right now. Yeah, there hasn't been a real strong Study that has proven it But right now ring-billed and herring gulls it is believed that they do imprint on the area where they have been hatched out and It is known that ring-billed gulls in particular will return to the same nesting location year after year as long as they're able to and There's a situation right now that we are that we've been dealing with where last year we know that Colony of gulls probably similar in size to the ones that are at Washington Square We're nesting at a site and This year That site was very aggressive in Persuading the birds to leave that area and what happened was is that same colony of birds is now About a city block away in distance So they will just they will come back and they will nest Within feet of where their nest was the year before and you know, if you prevent them from doing that, you know They'll move to the next closest available site. So, you know with Washington Square right now. They're in the vacant lot But if they harass them out of there next year, they could be all in the shopping center or You know someplace five miles down the road, so Old woman Serda Thank You runner. I was also at public protection and safety and I understood and I was in agreement with the advice that Steve McLean Had given us as to just keeping it restrictive to the commercial area. However now that we have more information and Because gulls are scavenger bird They're not just limited to eating in there at one particular area And this makes sense that this is now more of a community issue Because who's to say that the bird that you're feeding which I've fed the birds down at the lake myself Isn't the bird flying back to that specific nest? I do like the idea Alderman Racky has proposed and sending it back to the committee But I think we're gonna continue to revisit this issue if we don't make it a citywide ordinance Because I realize that I myself am perpetuating a bigger problem because maybe through artificial feeding that their numbers are getting out of Control and we can all get on the same page and find some other ways Maybe restricting certain types of eating and so forth But I will support the amendment because I think that's where it will keep coming back to this issue. Thank you Thank You old miss Arda Alderman Meyer Thank You your honor I guess this seems to me that this is a problem all up and down the lakefront and because of Their habitat being developed It's creating a lot of problems, and I guess I'd want to know what are other cities Along the lakefront doing with this problem because I know we're not the only ones having this sure well, I am I'm sure most of The older people are familiar With the situation that's going on a man for Manitowoc because I when I was here I know that some of you have spoke to them and I Won't get I won't name any cities names just because That's their own information, and I don't want to share that without their knowledge of it, but Other cities have done what you're doing. They've passed no feeding ordinances Another thing that I just thought of That they've also done is They in addition to no feeding ordinances they have Because these birds are scavengers. They will also say they will put in an Ordinance on how the garbage needs to go out to the road or you know it has to be in a garbage can with lid and Only the day of or the night before or something like that to eliminate some of the scavenging opportunities for these birds a Lot of cities will try Pyrotechnics a lot of cities will also hire nuisance contractors to use Especially trained dogs to chase the gulls and get them to disperse from an area. There's also propane cannons which Operate on it's a cannon that operates basically on the same gas tank that you would have attached to your grill at home And you can adjust those on different timers so that it goes off at time intervals some of the drawbacks though to those methods of the pyrotechnics and the cannons particularly is that they are noisy they're loud and You know, obviously you don't want a cannon going off every five minutes right next door to your house In downtown Milwaukee, they've done a lot of Individual property owners the big problem is gulls nesting on their rooftops, so Putting up grids on their rooftops seems to be the best solution To solving rooftop nesting problems We've also had people in cities try gritting off vacant lots and putting a big grid over the whole lot and it has worked sometimes the most important thing to remember When you're installing a grid or doing any of these non-lethal things is to make sure that you do it before the birds start nesting preventing them from establishing the colony is The probably the most key thing that you want to do once they establish a colony whether or not they've laid eggs or not You know if they've been able to loaf there for a month It's going to be a lot more difficult to get those birds to leave that area So those are some of the things, you know, and there are some that are doing egg-oiling a lot of them actually do that the very few of them Shoot any birds And generally the the communities that are able to shoot birds Are only allowed to because they've tried all of the non-lethal things that we've worked with them on and recommended and the birds Become habituated to them or they just you know The problem's gotten too large for them. So those are some of the options all in the Vanderbilt Thank you, honor. I have a question for you The nesting area if let's say they don't find any food within the city Will the gulls fly 10 15 miles to get food and come back to the nesting area? Generally with gulls Normally their home range is about two square miles if There isn't food immediately in their nesting location They will go out further until they can find it and you know, obviously with the lake here It's a huge resource for them and it's you know, it's a natural resource for them So I Think at least in Sheboygan that you know, even if they're way out on the other side of town You know, it's not out of the question for them to fly out to the lake All the better wheel. Thank you. I guess I was thinking we have Kohler and then we have Sheboygan Falls I was wondering if they would fly to Kohler or Sheboygan Falls come back if if not feeding them here Would even make a difference because we have other cities that they could go get food from Well, generally the gulls will they prefer to stay near the lakeshore and I'm sure that they're any open dumpsters There's fish in the lake You know, I'm sure that there are a number of birds that do feed at surrounding communities And really that's kind of another issue is Yes, you know Sheboygan's got a problem with gulls But so you know, maybe you might solve a little bit of your problem here, but the problem is going to go To Kohler or Sheboygan Falls like you said and what you know might eventually happen is that There might have to be a management strategy for all of the lakeshore communities But obviously that that takes a lot of coordination and a lot of manpower and a lot of ours So That's where I would put that. Alderman Stephan Thank you your honor. I guess to sum it all up. We're talking about restricting feeding. Is that a good first step and What's the next step and we've got a proposal here from somebody to do pyrotechnics? You've talked about what other communities are doing what works and what should we be doing? Just feel free to tell us what you think we should be doing well, you know my Experience so far in Sheboygan really I've only seen the ones the one site I haven't looked at the city as a whole where the birds preferred to congregate Where what places they might want to congregate and a lot of the methods that I've been speaking about our methods that are kind of universal and What happens a lot of times when trying to formulate a management strategy is That if you say we try pyrotechnics over at Washington Square and they work great, you know, they might work here But they might not work somewhere else. So someplace else that might have had success You know with dogs might not have success dogs might not work here. It's kind of you know, it's a situation by situation way of handling things and really What we can normally recommend is an integrated management plan and basically what we mean by that is using as many different techniques as You can and seeing which ones work the best in what combinations a lot of times when you're trying to disperse birds Normally mixing things up a lot of times like you know is the best way to do things Using pyrotechnics this week chasing with dogs next week or you know, keep the birds guessing what you want to really do is create an uncomfortable environment for the birds and a lot of times with wildlife Conflicts like this it really boils down to who's going to be the more persistent are the people That are harassing the birds. Are they going to be more persistent or are the birds? And I know that the birds are very very persistent and a lot of times they they went out and then You know, then we get situations where you know, we have to come in and check it out And you know you get situations like you have at Washington Square Okay, thank you, sir So would you please let the council know what the amendment is And the amendment is to the ordinance to replace in the first paragraph In any commercial zoning district with any location within the city of shabuigan limits So an I vote would be to change it from commercial to anywhere in the city limits. That's an eyeball. That's what we'll be doing now D-Burg I Ebert I Serta Davis all right graph Kittleson Myer Montemay or Radke Sigali Stefan Sushia, no, Van Akron. I van der Wiel And Balman 11 eyes five nose the amendment passes Motion carries amendment passes now. We'll vote on the general ordinance as amended Roll call There's still another motion All right, all right, my apologies, sir. You do have a motion on the floor. Thank you, your honor I just wanted I have like we refer this back to the public protection safety committee so we can work close with mr. Nelson and Investigate this a little bit further The ordinance itself says don't see the seagulls anywhere But there's a lot more to it as we just heard from mr. Nelson So I think we should go back to committee and work with him and find possible More solutions to this issue There was a motion in a second all in the ground Your honor, I'm fine. Thank you Under discussion to refer it back to committee when a roll call or voice call Voice all in favor any opposed motion carries 669 refer back to committee public protection and safety We will move on to Consent agenda 71 through 718 all of them graph. Thank you, your honor. I would move that Undocumented 71 through 718 that all our O's be accepted and placed on file all our C's Be accepted and adopted and we pass the resolutions and the general ordinance There's a motion a second under discussion Please call a roll I'm sorry, I'm Kittleson. Sorry Manny Meyer Montemay or Radke Segali Stefan Susha Van Akron Vanderwill Balman and Dberg 16 eyes motion carries 719 through 725 to be referred except for 722 Which would all will be referred to public protection and safety and Board of Parks and Forestry Commission report of officers 726 My city planning commission recommended filing documents submitted a communication from the president of Vandervaard Holding company stating that they have land available to sell to the city and asking the city would be interested in purchasing land Or doing a land swap Alderman Montemay or Thank you, your honor. I make a motion to accept and plot and place on file There's a motion section and a second to accept and file the RO under discussion Alderman Segali Thank You mr. Mayor. I was wondering when it comes to the Vandervaard property that give If we are giving courtesy to the county board on North 23rd Street I wish to extend the same type of courtesy to Vandervaard so that they can tell us What they when it comes to land swapping types of money and that that we would be interested in when it comes to the police station site, etc it would be a Concern and a question you might want to address to the chairman of the committee hold on my own number I'll bet you'd be in agreement with that. Okay. No, you can do it later Any more discussion? Not all those in favor of state I and you oppose motion carries 727 by the redevelopment authority recommending filing resolution number 5506 relative to terminating parking privileges for redevelopment authority owned property at Northwood corner of South 8th Street in Indiana Alderman staffen Thank You your honor. I move the report of officer be filed Motion motion to ex file report officers and the second under Discussion Alderman Serda Thank You your honor. I just want to make the the public aware of what transpired in the redevelopment authority and concerning this this property The first meeting that was held was June 9th of 2005 and this is re in regards to Dave Whose ends property across the street Dave Rapinsky. He not only Pays rent for this property on a monthly basis to the city But he also maintains this property for about a thousand if not more annually So he takes all of and he also provides insurance viability costs So there's a lot of money that he puts forth to take care of that property The first meeting redevelopment authority because it was explained that the city would like to develop that land now And put out some RFPs The first committee meeting that they had regarding this they're going to keep things the same because it wasn't going to hinder that process It was surprisingly brought back a week later to be reconsidered And it I think maybe the city we could do a better job because if it wasn't for Alderman Segali notifying Dave Rapinsky He wouldn't have been aware of this issue So we need to thank Alderman Segali that that was that was going to impact his business and he wasn't even aware of it But surprisingly that the decision then had changed a week later after this special committee So I don't understand because we talked about fiscal responsibility And that was one of the things the arguments brought to the committee was that in incomparables it wasn't fair that Dave Rapinsky was paying a hundred dollars per month for this the parking privilege when there's other individual business owners paying $25 for a stall but when you incorporate the liability insurance that he pays for the maintenance cost of filling the gravel snow plowing law maintenance it seems to be a fair a Fair assessment and now what this decision does and that the public needs to be aware of is that we just took away his privilege Just to give it right back to him because now the city of Shabuagan city citizen taxpayers will be taking the brunt of those costs and Providing maintenance for that land now on our tax dollars and Dave Rapinsky And it won't hinder the RFP process and Dave Rapinsky's will still be able to park there So I'll be voting no against it Thank you all miss her brother There's a motion in a second to accept in file 727 all those in favor state aye You oppose Roll call Please call the roll Serta Davis graph Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemay or Radke Sigali Stefan Susha Van Akron Vanderwheel Bauman D Berg and E Berg. It's a tie vote It is a tie vote I motion to accept in file carries 728 we'll lie over 729 to 744 to be referred 745 to 747 lies over 748 750 to be referred reports of committee 751 by public protection and safety Recommended filing communication from Carol Peterson and Bridget gate I again regarding trucks parking on Indiana Avenue from Moose Park to South 24th Street as this concern is covered by section 1836 of the municipal code which was passed a pober 204 All room and Susha Thank You mr. Mayor like to make a motion to accept and adopt the report of committee There's a motion a second to accept an adopt report report a committee 751 under discussion Please call the roll graph Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemay or Radke Sigali Stefan Susha Van Akron Vanderwheel Bauman D Berg E Berg Serta and Davis 16 eyes motion carries 752 by public protection safety recommending filing documents submitting a communication from our officer Todd preview Requested at the Common Council officially recognized drug dealer free neighborhood for the purpose of placing signs in those neighborhoods and not granting the request Alderman Susha Thank You mr. Mayor make a motion to accept and adopt the report of committee There's motion a second to accept an adopt report committee 752 Alderman Berg Thank You your honor On this document here, I cannot support this document Because of all the hard work that the people from NAD have put out the last couple of years Which didn't cost the city one dime and if we say it to them now We're not going to put up your signs. We always ask the citizens Help your law enforcement. You see anything happen Call crime stoppers call the officers give them help if we say to these people tonight We're not going to support you by letting you put up your signs How many times are people that's going to see a crime being committed going to call in and say well I'm not going to get involved. I think we got a this council should show tonight with that We're going to support these people that put out a lot of time and effort and their own money And give them that chance to have their little glory that they got coming So let's support these people and give them the chance to put their signs up. Thank you Thank you Alderman Berg Alderman Segelli Thank You mr. Mayor. I feel this common counsel owes the NAD group a debt of gratitude Not only that an apology for what has taken place this group has worked so hard to make this city safe They they they're where they are today because of all their hard work What right do we have to take that away from them by denying them placing a sign? That says that this is a drug-free neighborhood. I truly believe that These people need to have a more of a Recommendation and highly praised for what they have done instead of us say no to these signs And in the process to if I'm able to I would like to open up the floor to I know a couple of the other NAD people Like to speak on this subject. Thank you Is that a motion all of us in galley? Yes, sir. It is there's second Under discussion Not all of them favorite state I high Who would like to address the council mr. Storm? My name is Milton storm and I resided 1736 Marvin court with the reason controversy with the Sheboygan press and Also with this common counsel. It has only made our job much Difficult we talk about trying to bring back the municipal court I tend all of the drug cases that we had and particularly the one with the Guadalupe Cortez These people have been arrested way back in February 23rd of 2004 and Cortez has just been sentenced this past week four times the judge and the public defender have caused the delay This is causing taxpayers money And we go out diligently try to get these drug dealers and put them where they belong and Many of the judges decisions are very lenient And I think we need a municipal court right now to take away the work because these judges come in with stacks this high and I sit there because they schedule 14 of them at 330 and you sit there maybe an hour before you get to your one that you really want Our NAD organization has worked for hard We have some volunteers and I have never been to an organization that works like ours and one thing I don't see we don't get much recognition because way back in January 28th a couple of our members Jim Bersbach Benny Weber and two of our alderman and myself went to Wisconsin Rapids to get the Sir Robert Peele award for our community Policing department. I didn't see anything in the press although John Winter took pictures and things like that Many people don't like to work with our organization because they were worried of retaliation and some of the neighbors also are very fearful, so it takes a group that is dedicated No nonsense and we take care of drug dealers So I really don't understand why we aren't allowed to do our job the way we want it rather than the common counsel telling us How to do our job? I've worked with officer Todd preby He's been my neighbor for a couple of years is an excellent one as long as John Winter is also and all the police officers They all know me and I guess I know them and I give them Great compliments. In fact, I got many more compliments on my editorial letter on Monday than I thought I would get Thank you very much Yes, please I'm Penny Weber address 1712 Sunnyside Avenue 1712 inch point. Thank you Neighbors against drugs is a group of volunteers that want to help people in the community eliminate drug dealing in their neighborhoods The emphasis needs to be on the word help It isn't just NAD volunteers doing the work It is the people in the neighborhoods walking working along with us to eliminate the suspected drug dealing To date NAD has eliminated 59 neighborhood drug dealing residences in 18 different city neighborhoods Huge problems with drug dealing have been addressed and resolved in the neighborhoods. We have declared victory from drug dealing in The safety and well-being of the neighbors has improved after our joint efforts with the people living in the neighborhood Feedback we have received from the neighbors has been very positive and appreciative of our efforts Not only that but we have empowered these neighbors to take ownership of their neighborhood and to be vigilant about problems that arrive in the Rise in the future We have continued to receive calls from neighborhoods that have suspected drug activity beginning again The neighbors have been educated through NAD about how to recognize this type of activity They are not willing to tolerate drug dealing any longer And so they call to let us know when they think it's occurring again The process of fighting neighborhood drug dealing is an ongoing effort The more neighborhoods that fight for the elimination of drug dealing and are successful Remove just one more neighborhood from the areas a prospective drug dealer can live in and sell drugs NAD's efforts are non-confrontational We hold the property owner responsible for abating the public nuisance of drug dealing Our efforts have not caused the prices of drugs to increase nor caused an increase in crime to obtain money to buy those drugs The signs we wish to place in the victorious neighborhoods just reinforce the philosophy of drug dealing not being tolerated in the neighborhood It reminds the neighbors of what they fought successfully for and let's perspective renters and homeowners know the neighborhood would be a good place to live in Anyone traveling into our city will visually see a community that cares a Community that is proactive about abating neighborhood drug dealing. That's a good thing for Sheboygan I respectfully ask the council to grant approval for the posting of NAD signs in the victorious neighborhoods Thank you. Thank you Yes, Sue, my name is Jill Bonnet and my address is 2906 North 6th Street in Sheboygan. Thank you I am a master of social work a state certified advanced practice social worker and my first question is How many more times do we need to have? Drug expert Robert Stutman come back to this community in order to tell us what we already know That there are serious drug alcohol and drug problems here as there are Basically everywhere there are drug problems and gang problems Everywhere in even the smallest of community and to think otherwise is to not pay attention to the facts and I think we would all agree as responsible adults here that To stick your head in the sand only eventually invites trouble later on And I think that anyone that would come into our community and see a community that is proactively addressing this Would certainly be proud to say wow I'd like to be part of a community like that and The main issue here tonight I'd like to reiterate is not just recognizing the hard work that all of these people that are part of neighbors against drugs Have done for the community of Sheboygan, but even more importantly it is about as penny also just stated this fine community of ours stepping up and being strong and stating truthfully that we are not going to accept this behavior in our community and We will stand up and do what's necessary in order to address it and I would like to Ask that the Common Council, please consider the importance of this and certainly how All of the citizens that are here tonight would make themselves personally available to any of you to answer any questions that you may have Thank you very much Thank you, we're still under discussion then next would be Alderman Ratke Thank You mr. Mayor a couple of things these folks here I truly applaud the grassroots effort to drive the drug dealers out of the community But the issue is not what they've done they've done great work The issue is that their their master officer preview of the community policing department came to public protection safety some time ago I asked questions received no answers. He came we came back to committee with this last week again I asked questions. I did not receive answers nor were any of these people in the room To give me the answers I'm looking for we have a tight budget who's gonna pay for putting these signs up Who's gonna maintain these signs? Who's gonna take the signs down with the drug dealers move back into the neighborhoods? These are the questions I asked and couldn't get any answers from anybody and that's why I voted no It's not because they haven't done good work It's because nobody was there to provide the answers I was looking for and to this minute I will again vote no the officer preview is not even here this evening He hasn't been at public protection safety since this came in originally and I want answers before I'm gonna change my mind I applaud their efforts. Yes, will I help them? Yes, but I have to have answers before I can do such work Thank you. Thank you Alderman Ratke. Next we have Alderman Bowman I thank you your honor gee, it's it's it's amazing that Jeff brought up something I was gonna speak on The the sign that officer winter is holding you want to hold it up once more to show everybody I'm sorry officer winter Boy am I bad tonight Why am I saying winter? I have no clue But anyway, it could be placed on existing signs that are already there As a matter of fact that there are a lot of posts out there that that are restricting parking as a matter of fact in some of these Areas where we could just hang them right on those signs public Works committee could actually be erecting those signs at very little cost and as for the showing of these signs it could be Showing visitors to this community That we are not hiding drug problems As maybe could be done in other communities also if They also are participating in this type of project The drug-free signs would be a welcome to this community and I personally will vote to allow the recognition with those signs Thank you Alderman next we have Alderman venerable Thank you, honor. I Just agree with Alderman Ratke. I was at that same meeting and I got plenty of answers the report of committee number 752 states that the public protection and safety committee voted to file communication by officer Todd Preby requesting at the Common Council Officially recognized drug dealer free neighborhoods by placing signs in those neighborhoods The document failed by a 3-2 vote When this document was filed an ordinance was also filed with it Assistant Attorney Chuck Adams drafted a good change to section 1854 regarding neighborhood signs That ordinance is found in other matters of today's agenda, which I submitted inside document 776 if you'd like to look at it These signs would be the same size as neighborhood watch signs, which you've seen few times already. It'd be metal and weatherproof paint Neighborhood pride ink would pay for the approved signs and other related costs These signs would come down if the neighborhood was declared a drug dealer neighborhood once again If we were to prove this ordinance console would have the ultimate saying where the signs would go If a neighborhood does not want these signs we can step in and say do not put them up in that neighborhood People I've talked to from around the state and the nation know sheboygan has a drug problem They know about the recent meth lab busts. They know that crack cocaine is a problem here. It's really no secret But they also know that we have a great program called Nat a program that brings hard-working citizens That care about the community and work together to fight the drug problem Many other cities see the value in a program like Nat and want to implement their own. I See nothing wrong with the signs going on. I Think it will tell everyone who comes to our city that we will work hard to protect our quality of life And we will not become a city of drugs and murderers. I Also feel that voting down these simple signs is telling the hard-working men and women that volunteering from Nat And sheboygan neighborhood pride Inc. That we would care less about what they do for our city Thank you. And also what we need to do tonight What I feel we need to do tonight is vote against filing document 752 and 776 will lie over and we can pass it at the next council Thank you Thank you. I don't mind a wheel all around Montemayor next Thank you your honor The private citizens in Nat have been doing a yeoman's job and I support them and I personally feel It's kind of a thank you to let them put up the signs However, the the alderman who voted against it had valid reasons They were very concerned about the community and there were valid reasons about the signs Not about the work you've been doing by any means they had very good reasons to vote as they did and I think we do not Need to apologize to them I think we need to thank them for looking at it at a different angle. Thank you Thank you all in Montemayor Alderman sushia Thank You mr. Mayor First of all, I too want to thank the NAD group for the work that they have done for this community They have done an outstanding job working to help remove some of the drug problem that we have in the city And I would hope that they would continue their hard work, and I'm sure with their situation is like many's I'm sure they're always looking for more people if anybody's interested in joining them I think they could contact Todd preview at the police department to find out when the next meeting is When I was when I took the job as elder person about two days into the job Police chief Kirk gave me some good advice and something that I keep in mind as we are at the public protection and safety meetings he said there are going to be a lot of emotional issues that come before this committee and There are going to be two sides every story and what you have to try to do is separate the emotion From the situation and what the impact of the situation is going to have on the entire community And I think this is a prime example of what's going on here I think that the the NAD group deserves more recognition and I'd like to see more stories about their accomplishments in the press and on the media However, the job of public protection and safety you have to look at the purpose of putting up signs We need signs to tell the motorists where the school zones are what the speed limit is What the parking laws are they need to know what the street. They're driving on they need directional signs They need these things to help them be a good driver Nobody would want Somebody to accidentally hit a deaf child because they missed the deaf child sign because they were too busy reading the NAD sign And that is what one of my concerns is is that if we put up too many signs that are not Specific that the driving public must know to be able to drive properly in the city There are going to be too many distractions and this is a big concern because if there's another group that were to form to Help run different gangs out of town. Are we going to start putting up gang-free zones? You know, are we going to start putting up graffiti free zones if we start opening this up too much? We're going to lose the focus of why we have signs in the city And its primary reason is to educate the motorists to make sure everybody's on the same page So that might give you a little bit of background. It's nothing personal against the NAD group They're doing a fantastic job But that is why the decision in public protection and safety came down the way today. Thank you. Thank y'all and Susha Alderman Meyer Thank you, your honor. I too respect and admire what the NAD group has done They have done a wonderful job at community policing in our city And I did vote no against placing the signs But I do feel that we can honor the NAD group in a better way Maybe we can put a plaque in a park Maybe we can have something in the hallway of this of the police station that says This is what our community policing group has done and I too feel all these signs in the city are just it's too much clutter Thank you Alderman Sarada Thank you, your honor just for the record officer prebe is not here this evening He is on vacation and we do have representation from the police department lieutenant Johnson. Thank you Thank you, Alderman Sarada Alderman Gough Thank you, your honor after listening to the discussion that we had regarding regarding these signs and so forth I still liken this to our neighborhood watch signs that we have in many many neighborhoods and Is that a warning to people that they shouldn't live in that neighborhood because because something bad had happened there at one point in Time or or we have neighborhood watch units because the neighborhood is bad Or is that telling them that we respect our citizens and we respect our community? And that's why we have this type of program and the drug-free zones would be something similar to that I believe and I think we need to advertise. Yes, we have we have done a lot of work on on this particular Problem and admit that we do have a problem But we're working on it and we'd like to encourage other people to to do the same thing And I think that's what this would do. Therefore, I will not support the RC, but I will support the The general ordinance to allow the signs to be placed Thank you, Alderman Groth before I call the vote. I too would just like to thank the the NAAD group for the extremely wonderful and productive work that you've done for the community of It's a great example of how the community can get involved and matters that it hit his heart at the heart. I Will point out that I myself have absolute no tolerance for drugs I admire what you're doing. I admire the fact that you're taking your free time to get involved In a task that that will not only benefit us, but perhaps our future generations our children and our grandchildren. I Would ask the members of the Committee of Public Protection and Safety to perhaps reconsider their decision and Vote to allow these signs to come up and I say that because I I truly believe that although Sign traffic signs are basic to our society We've reached a point where drugs are also prevalent. They're around so much that we need to address the problem to a point where I believe that Signs against drugs have become just as basic as traffic signs And it's very important that we keep that in mind because While we can share differences and I will say there's no need for the Public Protection and Safety Committee to apologize Just is no need for the NAAD to apologize for anything Everybody's trying to do the best job that they possibly can But I think what we have to keep in mind is what is it that has a huge potential of destroying our Society and our community and our children that's drugs and I really believe that it's reached a point where Signs against drugs have become just as basic as our traffic signs Now we'd urge the NAAD group to make sure that these signs are maintained adequately so they don't become an eyesore So they don't become a target for people who may not appreciate the signs Although admire the work that you're doing but other than that I think we've reached a point where signs these signs particular Have become basic to to our community and hopefully in the near future to our society in general Holman Ratkin Thank You. Mr. Mary would be willing to reconsider my vote if I may ask a question of the Spokesman for the NAAD group I'll ask my questions once again that I had first off who's going to patrol and see to it that the drug dealers They are the neighborhoods second off who's gonna pay for the maintenance of the signs I mean they're gonna pay to put the signs up. They'll pay DPW. That's fine But signs do wear out and they are red just like stop signs are going to fade out Who's going to pay to keep these up? I mean, I don't want a ratty look and sign up that it doesn't belong to the city It's not a responsibility. It stares who's going to pay for it. Those are the questions. I wanted to have answered and Really didn't come up with a favorable answer out of anybody there Chuck Adams attempted to answer it to my But the bad people again weren't there and neither was officer prebie and I would just like some Answer before I would change my vote. Thank you. Would you like to make the motion open the floor for the spokesman? Please please there's a motion to open up the floor for the one spokesman for that. Is there a second? Second all is in favor We oppose motion carries with NAD spokesman. Please step up. Is that correct? All right, there is a nonprofit organization called Sheboygan neighborhood pride Inc. They are the fiscal agent of Neighbors against drugs We will purchase the signs and have purchased them We will maintain the signs. There will be absolutely no cost to the city. We will take that as our obligation Right now Todd is our liaison with the police department He is the one that gets that information comes into the community policing unit And he would be the one to make the decision to remove that sign if it was so justified Thank you. Excuse me. Hold on man, please. I'll admire is it to address the council or there? I would like to ask a question. Please do your honor I would just I would be willing all my honor. Please rise. I'm sorry I would also be willing to change my vote But I would like to request that the neighborhood that you are going to put this in that all the people that live there are Contacted and that they are willing to go along with the placement of the sign And I do feel that there can be a better recognition of your group And I think that's something we should look at too. We should have something better. That just is For you guys not placed in neighborhoods Okay, so your answer your your question is can we do something to get the permission of the neighborhood to place the sign? And I Believe we can when we do our surveys. That's how we get permission to place the yard signs We could do something very similar to get permission to place the sign on the pole in the neighborhood Does that answer the questions? Hold on man, please Alderman Bander wheel Thank you, honor. I didn't have a question for her. I just had a comment. Please do I'm no signs. There's a phone number to call. So if the the neighbors Feel that there's drug activity they can call that phone number which would be officer preview and then that's how That's how they would see if there's drug drugs in the neighborhood and then pull the signs Thank you. Thank you all in Bander wheel We will call the vote. I'm sorry Attorney McLean Thank you, and I apologize. I wasn't at the Public Protection Safety Committee meeting and I really not up to speed on this issue, but There was reference to the document and other matters my assistant drafted up that would Authorize placement of these signs, but I would caution you that I Don't know what your intent is tonight on that but that calls for the council to Recognize by resolution a neighborhood as actively participating in the Shabuaga neighborhood pride Inc. Before signs get put up and then there's another section that the council by resolution Recognize that areas that have been participated and declared victory against drugs as part of the Neighborhoods against drug program So it would require council action before Signs go up in any specific location in my view if And again, I'm not sure if you're up to If the committee has reviewed this proposal or not But as far as placement of the signs I think if you're going to do something like that It's going to be up to the council as to where they're placed and not Not up to private individuals or not up to officer preview now he may may come into council and Request a resolution by the council saying that this area is participating in the program and We want to have it officially designated and have a signposted That's how it would work as I see it. Wouldn't be officer pre be doing it on his own wouldn't be the the private Grass group grassroots organization doing it So there would be a certain level of oversight by the council Very good point attorney McLean Alderman Cigali Thank You. Mr. Mayor. You got me thoroughly confused. Are you trying to tell us mr. McLean if I may speak with him, please do That each time they put a sign up in the neighborhood They are now going to have to come back to this council and ask our permission to do it That's what I could Again, I'm not sure what was discussed in the committee, but I'm just And I hadn't seen this ordinance before that's another matter, but that's what the ordinance calls for just like it's the same Ordinance and it's drafted the same way as the The neighborhood watch program signs A resolution is adopted by the council Declaring that this is a neighborhood watch sign or a watch area then signs can be posted, but it requires This this ordinance at least strapped ordinance would require council resolution declaring That the particular neighborhood is participating in the program before a sign would go up Basically what you're doing, you know by placing the signs that's sort of an official the city is saying that this is a Program area. This is an area that we as a council at the input of the group and Community policing have declared victory on and you post signs You don't want to be just willy-nilly, you know placing signs Again, that's that's what this proposed ordinance in that's other matters seven dash seven D6 Would call for so that Again as a council would then have control over Where these signs are being posted? There's certainly nothing as it currently stands nothing to prevent any private property owner to put from putting the NAD signs on their yards. They've been doing that very effectively We're talking about official city signs here, and that's that's why it calls for Would call for council action Alderman think thank you term clean Alderman Vanderweel. Thank you honor. I'm gonna speak on 776 that that was the intention of Chuck Adams because We wanted to regulate it a little bit so the council would know what's going on because some people in the committee Felt that we didn't want it to get out of hand That we didn't want signs everywhere. We wanted to regulate as much as we could so um, I Feel I should stay in there. I agree with the ordinance and and just so you know that was our intentions Officer Johnson is hold on sir Somebody like to make motion open the floor There's a motion second open the floor for Officer Johnson all those in favor Too many area Ordinance would be written as it is Officer Johnson, would you please if you may distinguish between that permanent sign and a regular cardboard sign that people can just pop in Their yards this particular sign will be placed in the right more in the right of way It won't be on the private property. It would be on the city property and it is to Kind of mirror the neighborhood watch program. It's a designated area as successful It's to reward them for claiming victory that they have moved a drug dealer out So it is modeled after neighborhood watch and the or that is why the ordinance mirrors mirrors the neighborhood watch signs Hold on sir all of them and staff and you have a question for officer Johnson. Thank you, sir Oliver Stefan Perhaps my colleague Alvin Meyer stated there was another way to recognize them I guess I would see this when the council declares that and passes the resolution as a sign of victory for them It gives them a little more PR, you know every time we do that That's another notch in their belt of prayer so we could use that the approval of the council approving the sign As a another success story for them rather than you know, I do see you know Maybe a little bit of red paper for us to do it every time but on the other hand I see it as another success story And I would I also think it's important to see the sign when I came in tonight I had some misgivings too about well, yeah What happens if you know they clear it declare it drug-free and then somebody goes in there who but the signs that you know Says drug dealing will not be permitted So I think what they're saying is we've cleaned it out and we want to keep it that way You know, it doesn't mean that if some guy comes in there and rents a place and does it again We got to take the sign down right away to me, you know It just says that this is a area that's committed to keeping drugs out of their area and I I get applaud that Thank you all and Stefan So would you please a clean explain the vote I will and Just to make it simple and I vote would be to not allow the signs Okay Alderman Manny no Meyer Montemayor Radke Sigali Stefan Susha Van Akron Vander wheel Bowman D-Berg Eberg Serta Davis graph and Kittleson One I-15 knows Ocean Fills 753 by public protection and safety recommended filing documents of meeting the application for Street closure for the Liars Club of Sheboygan for a brought-fry street dance on August 7th 205 and approving the request with amendments to the time of closure Is there a motion? Alderman Susha Thank You mr. Mayer if we could take 754 with it Recommending the filing documents submitting communication from chairperson among summer festival. Please do 753 and 754 Like to make a motion to accept and adopt both our seats This motion is second to adopt 753 and 754 discussion Alderman Bowman you're not okay request a division of the two, please Vote on 754 separately motion to divide the question We will act on 753 So please call the roll Meyer Montemayor Radke Sigali Stefan Susha Van Akron Vander wheel Bowman D-Berg Eberg Surda Davis Graf Kittleson and Manny 16 eyes motion carries 754 Montemayor Radke Sigali Stefan Susha Van Akron Vander wheel Bowman Didn't catch you before the roll call okay, Alderman Bowman Please do sir Okay, well we know the vote for now sure okay. I apologize On 754 reason I did ask for a division of the question is because I have questions Is there a parade going on with this at all? I'm assuming not and This in this event For their summer festival or no parade correct Not that I'm aware of no okay, then is there a real need to restrict parking on that street? I mean There's an example after the broad days parade they do Allow parking on both sides of the street is this to Maybe keep Are they are they leasing? Part of the property for parking on the property that they want to restrict the parking on the streets These are questions I need answered Thank you, Alderman Bowman Alderman Susha. Thank you your mr. Mayor Actually, what what they're doing is a requested larger Parking area be prohibited and what we have done is gone with the standard for that area of town as far as what is normal because The concern was that they were trying to generate more cars into their lot that they'd probably be charging for So we've actually made it more restrictive than what they've originally requested But to our knowledge, there's no parade. It is just specifically for the festival in the past all of them and the request has been made and approved for a smaller area and I believe it's From the entrance to the baseball park up on top of the hill And it was done to alleviate some of the congestion that occurs during a festival and also to allow People to move freely down and utilize the parking area Whereas where I believe they charge a modest fee for that Does that answer your question sir? Thank you So please continue. I'll I'll to be in fairness. I'll start the roll call over again Montemay or Radke Segali Stefan Thank you, Susha van Akron van der wheel Bowman D-Berg Eberg Serta Davis Graf Kittleson Manny and Meyer 16 eyes motion carries Report of committee 3 by law and license committee recommended 755 by law and licensing committee Recommended filing documents emitting various license applications for the period end in June 30th 06 to June 30th 07 and the nine Tevin license 1240 north bowl lanes based on the fact that they are not in compliance with the ordinance related to the inactivity of an alcohol License and based upon their representation to the law and licensing committee that they were no longer interested in pursuing the alcohol license Alderman Manny Move that we accept and adopt report of committee and denied taverns license number 1240 Party here present Representing north bowl lanes is anyone here Chris Erewood is Chris Erewood here north bowl lanes No one's here you're on There's a motion in the second any discussion Not please call the roll Radke Segali Stefan Susha Van Akron van der wheel Bowman D-Berg Eberg Serta Davis graph Kittleson Manny Meyer and Montemay or 16 eyes motion carries 756 of public protection and safety recommended filing ordinance relating to no parking anytime so as to prohibits Say my tractor trailers from parking on both sides of Indiana Avenue some from South 17th Street to the westerly shot city limits and Stating that this concern is already covered by an existing ordinance would pass in October oh for Alderman Susha Thank You mr. Mayor I make a motion to accept and adopt There's a motion to accept and adopt in the second Alderman Bowman under discussion. Yes, sir. Hey, thank you your honor This ordinance as stated has been in effect since October 2004 yet virtually every single weekend lined up along Indiana Avenue you'd find these semi trucks either the tractors there or the tractors and trailers both attached And they go all the way down to the city limits I mean sometimes it's just jammed full of these vehicles. I mean if this is being enforced. I don't see where it's being enforced and when Thank you Alderman Bowman Alderman Ratke Thank You your honor to answer elder involvement question There was an ordinance that nobody was aware of and there was a bit of a staff who we got to the bottom of it last week And we have been out there posting warning tickets I've been out with the police department Checking it out. They've been dispersing as a matter of fact one of the trucks moved to a neighborhood just a few blocks away We found them I found them last night and we're working to take care of the problem I have Dave Bebel checking right now to see exactly how far We can park the trucks down there. There are some commercial areas So we're working to get the situation straightened up But right now the vicinity of Moose Park is up to about 20th Street on Indiana Avenue There's virtually no semi-partner been going out for the last couple of days and those that have got neither warnings or tickets Thank You all right yellow Missouche Thank You Just to address the situation that occurred apparently there was a change in the city clerk's office going from a computer system to I'm sorry from a paper system to a computer system And not all the police officers were trained on how to find the change in the ordinances So several months have gone by with several ordinances that were passed by this council that not everyone was aware So the situation has been rectified. I understand everything has been done now on the paper Side of things and I believe perhaps there'll be some future training for the police department on how to access everything on the computer because if they have laptops in the car They should be able to access the changes that this group implements. Thank you Thank You all in Susha. Can I say something? Yes city clerk Richards Just to clarify what Alderman Susha said in actuality my office when We set up the system of people getting certified ordinances or any documents that are affected by their departments. I Send out several emails to every department head Everybody got it. In fact, I even went to departments to show them how and I also sent instructions on how to access this after every council meeting So just to make it clear everybody was aware of how to do this And when we were not scanning because we were so shorthanded Everybody got paper copies where they went after they went to every department. I have no control over so I just want to make that clear That we did do what we were supposed to do. Thank you Thank you city clerk Richards The important thing here is not to look back to see who did not do what the important thing is we have an ordinance in place It needs to be enforced or steps initiated already to enforce that When it was brought to my attention by two ladies who live in the neighborhood who had concerns about those trucks I personally drove up there looked at it Remembered that I had been driving by there for five years seeing those trucks and they became part of the neighborhood They shouldn't have been that matter was addressed. There's an ordinance in place. It's being taken care of And we're gonna move on Please call the roll Okay, so golly Stefan Susha Van Akron van der wheel Bellman D. Berg E. Berg Serta Davis graph Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemayor and Racky 16 eyes motion passes 757 to be referred 758 will lie over 759 Alderman Kittleson I'd like to make a motion to suspend the rules on this resolution There's a motion second spending rules any any objection just continue And then I'd like to make a motion to I'm sorry. Sorry like to make a motion to put the resolution on his passage Okay, however Jeff mean from the boys and girls club is here. So if I can There's a motion the second to put resolution 759 upon his passage Alderman van der wheel Thank your honor. I've someone's here to explain it. I just wanted an explanation Who so I'll open the floor make a motion open the floor to who to to Jeff mean Okay, there's motion that gentlemen is there a second to open the Florida there was a second all is in favor You pause motion carries Please are Jeff main the executive director for boys and girls club. She went County. I reside at 3610 Bonnie court in Chewigan As a Enhancement of an already popular event the Gus Mac or three-on-three basketball tournament on Chewigan's lakefront We have proposed to have another event or event in collaboration with that and it's a it's a helicopter ball drop is what it is It's important in part to to enhance the event We're gonna have helicopter rides for the citizens of Chewigan to see Chewigan from the sky And at the same time it's a it is to help be a fundraiser to raise some additional revenue where we're going to be Selling these golf balls and dropping them and then they will be the closest one to a designated area will receive the prize Obviously safety is of utmost importance to us and of concern to us. We're we're working with an individual Who does this professionally revolution? The name is revolution rotors. He's out of Milwaukee Milwaukee, Wisconsin. His name is Kent Rice But when we came up with this idea it was after the time period that when we asked request from the council to have the Gus Macker at At the park so it wasn't that we were trying to allude that to fact and it came up with that afterwards So so we went to what we thought were the necessary steps to grant get granting of the approval to do this I contacted Tom Holton first first off and Was told that it was okay with him But we indeed needed to get approval from the chief of police because apparently they the chief of police grants approval to Operate low-flying aircraft in the city of Chewigan So we did that I made a request in writing to chief Kirk explaining what our intent was for this event and received Show what it's called a document giving us approval to a permit for low for out flying aircraft We thought we were on our way ready to go good to go We started publicizing the event and going forward later found out that indeed We had approval to operate a low-flying aircraft But there was an ordinance on the books that permitted things from being dropped out of aircraft in the city of Chewigan So that's what brings us here tonight, and we're asking for For an a waiver an exemption of that We have do have some fliers that show what we're talking about here We're not talking and I'll pass these around. We're not talking a thousand feet in the air Dropping it over crowds of people. It's a designated fenced off area He mr. Rice came up here for a site inspection Indicated that it was suitable for doing this type of an activity I'm not sure of the exact height, but you as you can see on the picture It's can't be more than 50 feet that we're dropping these balls. It's more of a gimmick than it is actually a You know that they're not gonna be dropping out of the sky So to speak so We've taken all the precautions. He had we have insurance the city of Chewboygan is listed as an additional insured on that policy And like I said, obviously safety is our number one priority or concerned as well as the cities are so Thank you all women see dolly. Thank you. Mr. Mayor if I may please ask a question you are Sealing off the perimeter around these because I know golf balls do bounce. Yeah, it'll be on the grass But they do balance but they'll be fenced off snow fenced off quartered off people or not It'll be a restrict it will be an area fenced off. Yes to answer your question. Thank you Thank you all Mr. Golly all of them and Ratke Thank you, mr. Mayor I don't have the flyer in front of you which which area the park are you looking to do this and is the question I have it I don't have a problem with this because this ordinance looks like it's put some safeguards in the chief of police the Department Public Works Director I mean those two have to give their blessing before something like this could happen the future according to this but I guess my question right now is Which park I mean what part of the park you drop and he's the land park of the area that we've Identified is to the east of the community Center the open green space in the land park as you know There's quite a bit of green space in that area that would be available for to do this type of activity Okay, Alderman Stefan. I'm sorry not the east of the community center the west of the community center. I apologize You're gonna hit a lot of people there Alderman Stefan. Thank you your honor Originally when you explained that I kind of had the concept of people were taking this slight dropping it themselves But no looking at the picture It's kind of like the ductona thing where I just buy balls and they all get dropped at one time And exactly it's closer is the winner. That's precisely it. Okay. Thank you Alderman Stefan Alderman sushi Thank you, mr. Mayor I have a question about how many times will the helicopter be going up and down? Is this just a one top well to do the ball drop? It'll be a one-time shot. They will be providing rides So it depends on the number of people that are interested in in riding on the helicopter Okay, and what did I'm how to say about the twirling of the blades and the impact it's going to have on the Sand that's in the area. It'll it's not going to be on the beach It's going to be on the grass. So the sand won't be affected and it's not gonna. I mean it doesn't harm the The grass okay, and this will be going on all day helicopter rides. That is correct. Thank you Alderman Is this one day or will it be Friday Saturday and Sunday for the just Saturday? Okay, and if I understand this ordinance this then sets precedent that allows basically any Entity to run helicopter rides in the city and also do a similar drop in city parks. Is that correct? attorney McLean Thank You your honor as far as flying helicopters in the city by ordinance currently that's prohibited except upon permit by the chief of police that ordinance been a place for 50 years and the chief of police did review their request for the helicopter rides and granted permission So the issue before you tonight is not the helicopter rides themselves. It's dropping objects from the aircraft There's another ordinance that prohibits dropping objects from aircraft and this Exemption creates a subsection B of that section that Tries to narrowly tailor This activity to Request from a nonprofit organization as part of a community fundraising efforts sponsored by that organization They can drop the balls if It's a limited defined area of a public park approved in advance by the director of public works and engineering and requires Conditions that the council may set for proof of insurance and waiver of liability It's an attempt to be fairly narrowly focused to allow this ball drop could be By some other organization as well would be permitted, but it wouldn't allow You know some other activity that might I guess this gets sort of a similar argument of the seagulls feeding seagulls in a defined area it's trying to limit the exemption They were killed two birds with one stone or one gulf ball But it's trying to limit the exemption to fairly narrow Exemption Alderman graph was up and they'll call you sir. He wanted to continue with a question. I'll leave okay I'll remember just a procedural question. Thank you your honor That would there be time to give this consideration and committee I guess and then still have action prior to the 31st and I guess I'm wondering given that case why we would need suspension to act on this tonight Well, can I speak to that the problem is because we've already started marketing and selling these and you know It's gonna a time is of essence and we only did that because we thought we had the approval that way It's not that we did it and thinking well forget it We're just gonna do it and then we'll get approval later We thought we had that approval and we were moving forward found out this ordinance existed So now time is of essence if we have to delay this we only have four weeks until the event itself. So It's our follow-up all of my bird. Oh, no, but all of them in Kittleson That's right All of them and Meyer Thank you your honor. I think it sounds like fun and I think the Gus Macker is one of the highlights of our city for our youth and I think it's a great thing and I'm for it Thank you very much Thank you all and Meyer all in the graph Thank you your honor. I just want to say that I congratulate Jeff and the Boys and Girls Club because Several years ago the city of Shiborgen used to contribute to the Boys and Girls Club I'm a fairly decent sum of money and we had to tell them I believe it was two or three years ago that you had to find your own way to make additional income I think this is a great way of doing that and therefore I congratulate him and the Boys and Girls Club for coming up with this Golfball drop and I hope it's as successful as the the Ductona is in in Shiborgen falls Thank you. Thank you all my graph Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. We will call a vote on 759 and I'll ask for a roll call Stefan Susha Van Akron van der Weel Baumann D. Berg Eberg Serta Davis graph Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemay or Radke and Segali 15 eyes one no motion carries matters laid over six six thirty five Oral number 10306 by city planning Commission recommended amending the zoning map to change the use district classification for property located at 1515 Ontario Avenue. I'd ask for a motion to file except and file the The RO and pass the attached resolution Alderman Montemay or thank you your honor. I'll make a motion to accept and file the report of us officer and pass the attached recommendation There's a motion in the second under discussion Not please call the roll Susha Van Akron van der Weel Baumann D. Berg Eberg Serta Davis graph Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemay or Radke Segali and Stefan 16 eyes motion carries 657 resolution number 6 to 620506 by Alderman graph Stefan Montemay or Susha authorizes a transfer of Appropriations in the 205 budget Alderman graph. Thank you your honor that resolution as Well as resolution 658 which is also an authorization to transfer of appropriations in the 2005 budget I would move that both resolutions be put upon their passage There's a motion in the second under discussion None, please call the roll van Akron van der Weel Baumann D. Berg Eberg Serta Davis graph Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemay or Radke Segali Stefan and Susha 16 eyes motion carries Organization Thank you, I'm gonna take that with 668. Please do sir. Okay, I move that both the general ordinances be put upon the passage There's a motion in the second to put 667 and 668 upon their passage under discussion Not please call the roll van der Weel Baumann D. Berg Eberg Serta Davis graph Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemay or Radke Segali Stefan Susha and van Akron 16 eyes Other matters authorized authorized by law 760 to 766 to be referred Communication That will be referred to public protection and safety That will be referred also to public protection and safety 769 is a That lies over 70 That will be referred to public protection and safety and public works 771 communication Who dedicated it and the men who served with him that will be referred to public works 772 is a resolution authorizing entering into a shared service agreement with Sheboyin County for a shared evidence storage and property area to include an Indoor pistol range to be located at the old city drop-off site at the end of South 19th Street That will be referred to public protection and safety and City County shared services 773 is a resolution authorizing the establishment of a policy to review the hiring of city employees Effective immediately and during 2006 and eliminating the creation of new city positions It will be referred to salary and grievances 774 is a communication from Connie's hushel making suggestion regarding having a dog park And we'll go to Board of Parks and Forestry Commission 775 is communication from the Wisconsin Department of Administration stating that they do not object to the final plat for the woods That will lie over 776 is an ordinance repealing and recreating section 118 dash 54 of the municipal code So as to permit and regulate neighborhood watch signs neighborhood organization signs and neighbors against drug signs That will lie over 777 is a claim from Jim and Marion Lindsay on behalf of their daughter Anna Lindsay for alleged injuries received by Anna while she was playing on playground equipment at Cole Park That will be referred a special committee on risk management 778 is a resolution to authorize a transfer of appropriations in the 2005 budget That will be referred to finance 779 is a resolution to authorize entering into a renewable Electrical generation agreement with alliance energy for shared electrical savings for projects completed at the wastewater treatment plant and pump stations And that will be referred to finance committee and public works As a motion to adjourn in second all in favor say die be opposed we stand adjourned