 आज, जो ये बेटाग हमारी लगी है, अन इनानाुस इसले है, because the Sunday show stays put as usual, but today, we are going to talk about possibly, if I can say it, one of India's most successful ever teams. आज, आज, that team was filled up with all of them. You name them, they were all there. Chunni, Goswami, PK, Goswami, T-Bala Ram. There is Jarnal Singh. The list just goes on and on and on. आज, today, of course, we are paying a tribute to that iconic legendary team of Indian football. And to talk about it, of course, are the usual suspects. We have Siddhanthani joining us from Pune. We have Jayati Basu, who of course is done in-depth research as far as that 1962 team was concerned. आज, Siddhanthani क्या पापर भेले, that we managed to get Siddhanth Saxena, someone who has been involved with football for so long and knows it inside out. And that is the beauty of it. Siddhanth, what did Siddhanth tell you first to get you on the show? आज, दिवत्री मिसकोलिएद्ताया क्या होगें? भूलते मुरे जरंगिन ताया कहल? कुईस तु गिवत्ते दो? So I said, fine. आज, आज, आज, आज, आज, आज, आज, आज, good to have you with us. Also, just to tell everyone, मिरा मनना यह की वो मरे लोगे जोना शो देखे हैं? Average A is about 15-25. I am just saying that way. आद kept said about dollars in P.K. Goswami and N.G. Chunni Goswami and P.K. Banerjee what about the rest of the team sir where are they right now.. उसे अजा तो 16 दोग listeners in the team and six are alive at the moment उसो आजा आप आछा आप आजा आप आफ़ाब निस दीग truth and a-whoulds a-whoulds a-whoulds आप आप आप आप आप आप आप आप आप आप आप आप आप आप आप आesi. बीश्छांगग मुझांगगगगग, आपती रुमभाद, वो दो सको गगगगकगुगरा। आपकोई पेर्कोग आनद्च्छोंएश्टे लुदाisn-गगगगगगगगगilate�गगगगगगगगforder। ॐ ॐ ॐ ॐ ॐ ॐ ॐ 어머 say that. Will I be trying this was the finest ever indian t one, I think I can go ahead and say that yeah yeah. बद्दी। कबदेदिम। जातामनेग़ मिर्क्राग नींदू। फरिब सोम्ग़ क्नाग। परष्टब्टी। आजए बावी जान। आईधा से ज़ीकार। यहाँ। నా్నిక్విస్రాపుపనిసికానుండికయారంరిసిస్టంలుల్లిలికశారిовал�రిలాౌిసికశిరడధైౕయిస్యికిమైయిటిపూలిరిటిలుి. णत सबस्व में als Jara Fish और तत दलत Shan ,में нीमर सबाँ कोछा邊। ती रुहा, ल मूल दे प्लाती नस्वै कासलःसा arrangement గా వద్త మామమతే కోవూన్ఠ పఢి కోల్ళణిమ్రు కర్గిము బర్నువొటిలంనుల denial చనరరి迎 2018 దైయాదికంబి లిశ్చమా ఇరి మోల్ళలిసత 10. CNH उप्सल अअग्जा रींगा लिक कहाँ आच्छा उबसुत अग्जा ढेका पीन स देगी जामा की सोगी केसा वो आच्छा तो सोगीग। you see the street that's on the back for you officials that that may let the core being maintained that's not that here all newcomers all newcomers were did not make it couple of new commons did make the team but the core remained the same for five years six years that's a huge thing ौs idea is broken and some finally police had to intervene and it was a riot like situation. ौs so bad that next day on the 4th when we played the final on the 4th in the Parliament in Delhi the Prime Minister had to make a statement on what has happened in Jakarta and what happened to Indian Indian team. Not to the Indian ambassie. The previous day on 3rd India lost to Pakistan in hockey final. ॐ ॐ ॐ ॐ ॒ ॐ ॐ ॐ वह कोडोडा थे आतेhyungलागे की पुटů की तब इस पार सब था, नहीज बजोनी था। Two freeze just closed your business because of John qui.. शब ओवोग़ा में लगे करतेरी, साचाकी ती कुफतितना। खेल रने मिसे ती पसे जि Atta jikar that amb良기 प्रस müsके घैदाले अज बजेदता, स Austotendu k shutting down jikar like this.  ogląd । नभी नभी च Steel, । नो भी अह communism । । । । । । । । । चौशॉवाूःव। ॥ । । । । । । । अँआग of the indlike of the indlaki eatings from the jakat thayate games and make it only jakat thayate games which infuriated the people of indorecia including including presidents who was a great friend of india but he was also upset his party was upset so there was so much and India feeling basically against so the so the was was what had to be had to be put into an aircraft at the middle of the night because the आपाजाः मैंगा इंबाजा वा़ बाजा सक्छमुचा भागा सक्छिरुंगा अगवा़ सहिरक्उदि करेति बना लोग तीलाई मैंगए था नहीं कोईन में दीखाகளा मैंगलुआ करीएईं आंधा। कुछ स часов incomplete रड कर में कुछ तो इसे ब रद करी कि धजास ऐक्स off ूवा आपा अहीर्चीज़, श्विट्ठा वाईक्कोन cuerpo बागा क चिया आपा चोली ऐक्छा आम नहींरा आपाणावागा कि सब आपाह भागा अगावावाया आपादावागावागावागावाम। छीएने कि इसेविल तीश्टीः लोग है। छात्ते ञी क स sunglasses ?? आप आखर samurai ?? उन्तरेखटर दूरी Mutter ? वीसकस उर काहंटे सीवासा sermon ? तरीवाسकर में आप दशवाँग घन neighbors?? वो रहर, ताम ना सवएन लेए कर बाह everything. यो जुइ अव चूँं offend तो तो धषाक सेम ती शालग तो है. जोक को वो गब दशाह ता है. तो तो उझा ज़ा मनुश कर तो वहागा वें. और थे है ज्यगे carefully तो । वर थे है ज्यगे. जर थो दिन तोग पलेर था तुछ घर देख देख, नद में सब साज्टे की ठी kilo-dou-dou-dou-dou-dou-dou-dou-dou-dou-dou-dou-dou-dou... वह खीट जो तुचा नम्हाना वाह गटा बाद करना बेसके तो बाडने ना विवूँआव, अन वे वह क्या शिक्ता करेगा बादा विवूँँटे आप दो वो आँगरद र� The name of the game, where Football was a thing, in the 1962 Asian Games, given everything that was going on and soon after the Asian Games, all the athletes came back and then there was a Warwala Mahal building in the country and things got much worse over the course of the year. So, an interesting time in the history of the continent as well not just from a sporting perspective but also overall in terms of how a lot of countries were pushing for independence. अ जी अगयों diversion only. शोग स्ढ़ा बवेंअ साँस्विये नाँ वेट आप सी च्छालसों तुर्ब साँग बाहांगयों उन्भी लग्योंगग, अग्योंखग छीजी कोछ घर्त सेदाए, आप यह शिक्ये आप मो मी यह सेदेरे नहीं करने.�ה इदिठ्वी यहने कात सी वाल ख्या Fast donor इदिट्वीव मिसे नहीं, Нा्यन कराजी थे अगी क्या एक आईछी लूग ज् funktion कीी प्रवल है अचBir सब सब सशान बेर्गणमYour जो। यहुर लेगान लोग ब्रँफ प्रहाीवाच़ी, आप लब देंग सेक्वाज़ वेगरावाच़ी ढ़ाछाता, यहुर तेरा श्विए वित अमलोग गवागाशी आप विछिए आप आब प्रश्वाचाता. दोसे 15 Cool calc आपजाव looks समझा said주세요 तँजग इन istiyorum शा मँई अप many Sat और नाँन कई। आंस शमती लोंसा अमलो, विस्टर गो सम्य was a kind of person who will not mince words, even if they are his colleagues. विस्टर गो सम्य was good but he was very slow, if he has to play with me and PK and a skillful man like Balram, अबसल was completely unfit in that game. अबसल was completely unfit in that game. अबसल was completely unfit in that game. ज्ुम तालिवों, लग़े के जाएा उस्वाले क्याजा सावा। जुप, आप बहुर विनगे तीम, वोवे विनवे तेम जुद्स्वाल श़ाच जो उस्वाल ड़ाद तीम� थी ली की आजाथ कम और जोंईरे शीवाले की रोत है. रवाच्वाई आद मैग़ आप वेड्वाई और चोनिदा और आद मेग़ आव्चाई अनायाद from another house after the police in the police station and on the right separate victim of the police in the police station. वीत साँ शुपने ओ़ा थी. वो नहीं हो नहीं वो स्बने वेंनें हैगागी. है कम विते बाच्टिर해서 की और स्चार्फोिम ऐना की रेका. विते ष्टेगे साथादी, विते चिन्निता छए लिगता है? और और लगते रेका. अरसी अंगा मैंा ख़ाला चिक देलिया वाँथे है। लीग युठ मिस्मबित्रहाँ है। ख़ागा मिस्मबित्रहाँ हो विस्मसबित्रहाता, और लोग आटिकलस्यए कि स्थो शुमा nevertheless my kids अद्रक्ती मुछादे की वमाबे यावागा वोगादे ने वगादे बासान वाररिताै के बारिटाना में करमेटारे के लगा तोईगादा हुज ஓगे दम्भेगा कोतुर्टै, अगधे और दल के यहां जीईईगा हो था है, अगधी यहां जीईईईगी, बनी प्रनबे भी तु एडाज लिनियम स्वट्वाल तु एडाज लिनियम स्वट्वाल तु सन्टोश ट्रापी देश्वी 30-40,000 in Kerala Actors used to come when they used to play the Rovers Cup in Bombay Actors, I mean, they were patrons for clubs दिलप्कुमार and प्रान रान, रान लोकल क्लब, but people say that Rovers Cup matches, शमी कपूर would come which is make up on, थो इटीखी सामको मैंचे, शुट्टे षीब वागृजन से, णोगे भीवागी आप अग़िर। मावनस्पोटिं लिईए कि दिलप्कुमार योजि तु सपोट्वोट्वाग स्पोट्वी नागे अन सबभाजनी रोगषका郫की मून्मगन तीज़।। टीक मुःमन ता टीक। और नीक वो उस ती मूल्एदी को नीक के वहँँटुगें। और लन्दन थी, मुन्दन तीज़ी, यी थी, वहँँबी वहँट्या। मुःम तीज़ी। मुःमे तीज़े। सुमाशमॡम के लिएई, बवांभे के लिएईग करईईई at the ground almost because... कोपरज दर देखाँईईईईईई. ती तो, आस्विसे था चो अगराउएच कोप्टाई के लिएईईईई. आमुल पाले कर तेख छुट्टी तु गों वोच अखी मैज यों भूमभे, भूट भोल के, यों ब्रोकन अबड, वोच पेले ये नहीं तु ख्याल्गता, तु भी लेन दा अएडिया ब्लाक पोल वोज न दा भूँँँँँँँँँँँँँँँँँँँँँँँँ विरंभी सतरा, इुँँँँँँँँँँँँँँ Janeiro, प्ला लग क做न्हीocation का Kazakhstan को Gur tri India kuru नहीं, बारेंग्या पण्ठाए विगेपेशा एक लोगा आप ऱे है म। शीक एक देल की च्वरेंगेगी नहीं चीरे गरे देखेगी प्रड��도록 या वोग़ा, ईघ्ली होगी खिले करने थी, और जिन शीत है क्यो, और जास मी को ग्या आप में जी बगा बासा है, विररित जोग काषी यहां अगर बार सहाँलों, टरनीखाति वाद्दीती लगन्पिल्गे काफी त़र दिबत। पर अजीकि अद्या है, तेर्टीजी और दीका दीद्फारूंो, योन जो वो बरु्गों आप और थे तवरीं और वह पीचिरन्दित कूछ तर आप आप दोया ओदिया है, तेंषीन के रग दीदगी मुझु المोदि दीदे पायगा। अप ख़ेरे हैं की आँ प्रिख्टी से ये प्रोग़्ाम शुचुणुवाय, अप प्रिख्टी से लेके, नाईनीट से आच्टी आश्टी आश्टी एश्टी जीमस ब्राँन्स मट्रिद्ट्ध टक देराया आश्टील तला. भी ज़िनक्ड़ार मैंत छोगेर ती मैंटें बारने च्यादाद्एन मैंट eje वो सकतर कि स्थक्तिक करतेनावाद Brihna-Nashal team has consistently done well improved with different set of sets of players coming in and out of the system and all that. वो आब और दीक, आब आब उरी आजादुनी ग़े नहीं अब उरी. नहीं आदीवात मैंने जी आब गो अगर ऐद्तॉ कर ख्लने �排टाबा को को यह तॉच्तानि अदिए आदिवात. अख्दीवात मेंशते थीतनी लेगे रहीं पीगी कर्चानि. after that when we were in school in the 90s we started playing I started playing as a left out. I was a cigarette player. Yeah, so you know, so those middle years is what I'm particularly interested in figuring out what happened then because I'm sure that Tata Football Academy in all main loko technical tactical coaching. But if the rest of the country played in the 90s and 90s, then it's obvious that as a team we won't be able to do much. Fair enough. Fair enough. We've got some questions also coming in right now. And to all the people who are watching the show, you had a question. You both had a question about the 62 team. East Bengal, we will have our conversation on East Bengal. When is that conversation happening, my brother? Because all the four of us are participating in that conversation again. When is that happening by the way, Siddhanth? So I can tell you. Yeah, conveniently. Goalalol, goalado. I'll pass it on to you. Rahim, Sam was turning in his grave right now. Oh, you never know. You might be having a laugh. I'll pass it on to Jaydeep to answer that question about when we are talking about East Bengal. So whenever Jaydeep says, yeah. Sir, Tuesday is a good time. Yeah, yeah. So that Tuesday works for you, right? Tuesday works for you. So gentlemen, so Tuesday we will be talking about East Bengal for the 748th time that they've got an investor and they are entering the ISL by public demand because we've never spoken about it. So we have to talk about it again. But sir, let's get back to this team. Jaydeep sir, if I had to ask you and if you had to pick your top Indian players, how many from that 62 team would be making your top five if I could ask you? I think that would be very unfair on my part to pick a team like that because I've not seen playing any of them. My experience of watching football starts from 71-72 onwards. See, if you ask me to really pick a team, but on reputation perhaps many of them, at least four or five of them, goalkeeper, Peter Thangaraj, two stripper bats, Arun Ghorshan, Janel Singhs, two, three and Chuni Goswami, PK Banner, Chipal Ram. This five to here pass to kahin nahi jata. Koi bhi team me khe laga merek has. So that's what I get to hear from people of the next generation also. Those who have seen them playing. Siddharth, in terms of literature, you think there is enough literature talking about the achievements that these guys have earned on the field? Well, Sivya, we are very ungrateful to our heroes as a culture. We don't remember them once the moment has passed. That's unfortunate because we are like that as a race. We disregard history for our own. So I would not know vernacular, you know, writings, but I'm sure in Calcutta or in Kerala, probably even in Bangalore, there would be a lot of the stuff talking about them. But having worked with the Egypt, with Jaydeep and spent a lot of time with Novi, you get to hear these stories. And what really strikes me is that there is a very thorough and a robust kind of memory about this. So in that sense, maybe it's a very personalized idea, but in that sense you remember them. But in a larger idea, in the mainstream media, no, I wouldn't think so. I have dealt extensively with this issue in my book. Maybe almost 60 pages. That's why I mentioned you and Novi. But unfortunately the book is out of print and there is no taker for the book anymore. So in the larger sense, they are no takers for sports history. Because you know, it's funny. Today is also the anniversary of the 221, the innings by Gawaskar at the mobile. We lost by 9th branch in 1979. And that has been on since morning. And it's beautiful to see because that kind of defined your idea as an emerging nation with self-belief. Here was this guy who took it. In the same way, we have very few people like you saying why don't you do your job? Not many takers for this. Sad but true. Which in many other cultures and countries, they would remember it. 66 England, that's all they have done. But you can't go without a week having to listen to it. Every World Cup starts in England. 66 is coming back. It doesn't happen like that. Wonderful books and wonderful literature. Such hyperbolina that it's amazing. I think Euro 2012 or something. Andy Carroll received a ball from a cross and scored a goal against Sweden. For 10 days the world's greatest cross, the world's greatest ever bike. This is their speciality. What about the David Flart goal in 1990? Offside goal. People have eaten it for the last 20 years. So somewhere I wish we had the mind space and the time and newsprint to celebrate these guys. But also beyond the point how much do you celebrate? In the intervening period, the years that followed, things just kind of dipped. We lost on steam. I don't agree because I'll tell you why. You're talking about football. We're still searching for people to latch on to as heroes. We're trusting heroes. We're trusting heroes, fair enough. But the point is they're not there as far as the larger public is concerned. If whoever is running the game, whoever is running the federation, it is your job to make sure their achievements are known. It is your job to make sure that these people did this so many years back. That is the only way. I would agree there but I think it works both ways. It's our job also. It's our responsibility also as a fan base or a fandom to keep it alive. Balram has only got the original word. I'm using this platform whether it's right or wrong. I don't know. And there's no Padmashree for that. And like Jaydeep says, top five to yellow. These people have gone nowhere. Jarniasingh doesn't figure anywhere. Balram lives a very solitary life. Maybe he's happy. Maybe he's bitter. We don't know. But he says, what is Padmashree? But the same way, why not? If he was such a big... They speak of him as the first Indian modern player. He could play the 80s game when he was playing then. He could play in any position. And also being an East Bengal legend. We'll talk of East Bengal on Tuesday. But he tells me he can't name the team now. East Bengal team now. Because it's all like Spanish names and this and that. It's not the wrong thing. But that's how the times have changed. Now if you live a forgotten life where despite being the star of a country for about five, six years, Balram has got the most Olympic goals by an Indian. I don't think Chuni Goswami has even one goal for Indian Olympics. That's not a comparison. But it's just how it is. Balram has one goal in the Olympics. Four goals. That's Neville De Souza you were talking about. But he is more. No, not the hat trick. The most number of goals across all Olympics. Two Olympics he played now. I think he scored two goals also. One goal and two goals. Someone is forgotten. He's forgotten in the evening of his career. It's his choice at some point. Fair enough. Now the Siddharth technology is so good. I wish somebody has made a small film on the sixth place. Exactly. I was going to tell you the same. Sir, let me tell you the world. What happened? You took him and you sat in your bed. That there are no takers for it. His takers are Bollywood. No matter what justice or whatever injustice they will do to it. But there are takers for sports films. You need to bring it out. Sir, this is the book. Arjun, I disagree. I don't think it's a sports film idea. It's more of a nationalistic whipping up. There's a difference there. It's not about how you played, what you thought. It's about this 70 minute speech. No, fair enough. It is good. I'm not saying that. But you know, off late the spate of sports movies. I would look at it. A slight board of suspicion. It's true that it's something else. But that's fine. I'm just saying as the motivation to write literature about India's India's most successful team. I think the motivation is that you write it and you present it to these people. The other day there was this bid for the next Asia Cup. So I joked with somebody that bid letter should come with a child log post. You just can't keep bidding all the time. When we bid for the most important thing we played in football under 17, they didn't call these guys. And that is humiliation. You don't invite them. You don't give them a pride of place. You don't even send them a pass or even a cooperative thing that you've served the country. And then you're hosting a World Cup. So there's a gap. There's a gap from remembering or wanting to remember something and then very casually moving on. But then that's where we probably kind of do so. Can I ask, since you have spent a lot of time working on some of these stories and telling these stories especially you, what was the sort of reaction from the international football community whether it's the press or fans or people just conversations that you might have had in passing and how did they sort of respond to react to watching some of these Indian players do the kind of things that they were doing. See what I heard from them, there were some foreign journalists there, their press, their game. One British team, I forget the name of the club, they I think half-heartedly approached Chuni Goswami whether he wants to play for them and of course it didn't go any far, the conversation didn't move very far. It stopped there only. And what really surprised me that after four days after coming back to India in Hyderabad Rahim gave a interview to PTA and he in that interview he said that we haven't played what we should have played and we haven't gone as per the I don't think we have played as per the planning we had when we had the camera. He said that we need much harder practice than this and he also warned the football federation that what I have seen in Jakarta there are some teams who are coming up very very fast and they will beat us in the immediate future until and unless so his tone was like that that he was happy but he was not overburnt he was not overburnt he was happy a gold medal is always a happy but he was not he was not he had forced not only that he was not far from the reality it didn't blur his views he knew what were the reality stands we have won very good but that's not the end of the world and that doesn't mean we are the destination that's what actually wanted to say that we have won but nobody should think that we are the we are far ahead of anyone and we are the best in Asia by miles by hour it's not that that's what he meant that he took it in a larger context a lot of things the balance of power shifted in the 16th innovation game even hockey we kind of relinquished our hold over supremacy in Asia no we lost in Kato also we lost we didn't it was on it was shifting it was on gold we have spoken about the players as the main tactician can someone tell us and I am asking from someone who doesn't know this as well so what is the story of Raheem Saab and why I don't know why did it turn out to be such a good tactician when you are coming from a system that has nothing so how did that happen does anyone know that what is the story of there is a film they are trying to make by the way about him Mr Ajay Devgan is going to be playing I don't know what dialogue we are going to make there but what is his story exactly see he was basically a teacher he was his main thing he was a teacher and is a teacher who loves to learn that is the he has started coaching when he was playing only see when he passed he was how old he was he was 54 when he passed away or 53 when he passed away so he has been coaching for 20 years that means he has coaching from the age of 30 he was himself a very good dribbler but he had somehow he had a lack of coaching and people say that some foreign teams will come to play in India he will not only go and watch those matches but will talk to the coaches will try to discuss things with them and see another thing I must say he had a his plus point was his education he was very much however without education nobody can go ahead in life see I have nothing I am not trying to see a bigger picture but just see a man Rahim saab who died in 1963 all his daughters were medical education he sent all his daughters to school and married them only after they passed medical education all his sons were well educated Rahim saab his most known son who has played for India he was a coordinator in that he joined as a pilot officer commissioner officer all his other sons they all went to good schools good colleges somehow he was a man of education I think that helped him he was not a person who has spent his life only on football that's why I look at it if I can add that egalitarian idea of education there is probably a south Indian thing also because there is access and also there is this larger idea of the boy and girl are equal you have to get them educated the job football is not the end or the answer all the time there are a lot of sportsmen from the south they all are usually pretty educated and school and taught there is always a falling back on something this idea of Rahim saab comes from there and also the structure there was nothing the institution there was an institution which took care which helped promote and bring out these people the institution of the structure was always in place it was just how you benefited from it what you made of it it was nothing the idea was the police team the police structure the police institution a lot of our footballers our sportsmen working class have come from institutions they have come out of institutions same with services for example there are two services players in the squad and I don't know when the last time this is a player except for Agnes Turkey in any team sport for that matter football hockey actually Siddharth this is one thing I wanted to ask you all you three because all of you have spent years in journalism some of you have played also football see their team had three players who were in railways actually railways issued a press release and a big advertisement from newspaper once they came back we are proud of Pradhat Balman PK Banerjee and Prashanta Sinha they were from the railways our railway men someone was like tuning we can never live in railways never live in railways because here is a job here is a job to protect and what I mean like Siddhan said Siddharth Siddharth Siddharth Siddharth and Chuni Goswami himself from the state bank employee somebody from the railways so does my question to all of you three is that can by working in a railways or in bank or in a public institution does it mean that he cannot be a professional his approach can't be professional absolutely I completely agree with you Jai the idea of professionalism or professionalization as we are calling it now what it means is it's equated with commercialization of the sport or of the system more than the attitude more than the attitude or whatever it is in fact in many ways you can say that some of these players were the first generation of professionals they had a job based on which they got based on what they did on the field and then how they continued to develop in their job was not connected to how they did on the field you might get a promotion out of turn maybe but if you want to survive in that if you are at state bank of India and you want to retire from there as regional manager or some decent position like that or in the armed forces or the police or any of the railways you would have had to spend your time do your work there as well and you know very often a lot of these guys or athletes across the spectrum are given these professional roles at entry level positions so how you build yourself up over the course of your 30-40 year career also I mean education comes into play like you were saying so many things come into play which I think contributes to the overall sort of attitude or outlook of what we would call it professional not just someone who meaning that if you are doing one thing so that makes you professional that's my simple take the most regular star on your show he's the only person from the TFA sport from the late 90's who's not in the government job the moment and when they were young kids and you would talk with them and they said dada in Germany all those dreams have to be there otherwise you're not doing it right the moment they spend one season in Calcutta playing in extreme humidity stand up after the rain the sun is up and the ground is full of puddles and searing feet the first thing and then that would bring you injuries the first thing if your career is finished with injuries slowly everybody started getting a job looking for a in the state all they can do probably they won't admit it now there were 2-3 others with the railways they all joined the eastern railways some job most of them but I know most of them did your biggest sport star today he made so much money when you talk of his retirement you still talk of the fact that he was a PT in the railways I am talking about Dhoni so the fact is people the institutions are being eroded there are no jobs there are no sports budgets in institutions anymore people are not hiring these institutions are not hiring sportsmen that's a big problem professional was always there professional is a very very misused term it's a very flexible term I wouldn't be negative professional was there at the same time I would think they could straddle 2 jobs playing as well as making a living at home fair enough also sorry just to add quickly that it was also very much in keeping with the amateurism or the spirit of the olympic movement at that point which was based on the amateur athlete whether it's a student athlete or whatever I know that some of these are like British public school values that they talk about in theoretical terms and it doesn't always translate into how I mean how it didn't translate into how Britain ran its own empire and it certainly doesn't mean anything beyond that but the fact is that these athletes what we are talking about is the Asian Games competition which is at that part of the olympic movement many of the same players who played at the olympics themselves the British school the British school idea is different because the British elite went to the public school and that's how the amateur idea was born here it was born of a necessity I mean India is probably the most professional sports country because everybody tries to make a living out of sports you get a job in a bank or the railways but you use sports to get that job nothing that's self-defeating now there are no openings earlier in Delhi there used to be FCI there was an audit in Delhi all of them were closed they keep it on max to max they keep it on stipend you keep it on stipend but you think this when we used to play I would think pension is still a very sorry I would think pension the idea of pension is a very big thing still in the Indian context when you have so much of you have no welfare scheme in the country exactly so pension becomes big and sportsmen with such short shelf lives pension is big so you need a job job's job here on our chat the name of Modi Ji has started Modi Ji should be hearing this Modi Ji will not be hearing this don't worry, I don't think people running football will also be hearing this you never know you never know we'll do our bit to put it out there my point is I'm binding up the conversation now we've done more than an hour and this is for all three of you so we can go in order Siddharth first how far are we from a team like the one we saw in 62 and by that I mean our objectives have changed now in 2020 there you're going into a tournament maybe you're not going there to win the tournament but you're going there to do well probably get into the last four now our objectives can be even winner game in the group stages keeping that aside how far are we from getting a team that can bring about that organic movement that's so needed in the country right now you think we're far away from it or keeping in mind what the 16s are doing the 14s are doing you think there is a future well the guys who run the show they're probably doing a decent job with the age group but at the same time you're taking it farther away from what we think is the organic idea if you kind of strip down the eye league just becoming a second ratio then later the organic idea comes there the crowds come there the dreams are built there if you're trying to Biden that gap the poor getting poor the rich getting richer I don't think we will be getting there in a very short while it will take time so wanting a team like 62 Asian Games winning a cold winning team I think we should just sit and talk about it as memory as I said I don't think what time it will be and it will be then we won't be able to sustain it you know we will tend to forget it we will tend to forget it we will probably latch on to some other new new parade or the new tableau we will just go there and let's do this let's bid for this it should not flow from the top from where we all belong from level that's how it grows everything the efforts are there please do them the age groups, the kids want to play football just don't make it a rich man's sport what I'm saying a rich kid's sport that's the right way to do it Jaydeep sir just purely because when you talk about the organic growth of a game in a country you could say directly proportionate to what your national team is doing not what your league is doing probably what your national team is doing is directly proportionate to what your league is doing in some sense so then in that aspect you don't feel that in 10-12 years we will have a team of boys who can do something one is to be a regular player after that if we have such a team that we had we will play the quarter-finals of Asian Games I will be very happy I don't want them to if they will win gold medal or not that's a different issue let's see what happens after quarter-finals no one can win group and club so I will be very happy if they come into first-ten then I will be the in-a-shia first-ten in-a-shia first-ten in-a-shia I don't want anything I want gold medal that's a different matter I don't want gold medal if you come into 1-8 if you come into 1-8 if you come into 1-8 then I think you can win gold medal at any point of time no one can win that because then it becomes a knockout to ornament if you see the world cup teams who make the quarter-finals for them it's it's been a successful world cup if you reach the quarter-finals probably a gone semi-finals because once you are the last four it's anybody's game getting to the quarter-finals consistently is a mark of a very healthy football ecosystem I think this Sunday when we had Bhai Chung and Renati on the show one of the things that they were also talking about Bhai Chung was referring to was that of course now with the 24 team Asian cup qualifying for that final tournament should not be a thing if we don't qualify for that tournament we should all pack up speak nicely we are talking about the gold medal we are talking about the gold medal we are talking about the gold medal I am talking about the qualifying what is our situation now somebody just said Arjun I will interrupt I asked him when do you think India will play the world cup this question is still going on he said when India will when the world cup will be a 96 team tournament India will play the world cup as the host as the host as the host we can only play the world cup as host I don't want to sound cynical here but that's what's the game plan that comes across you can play the world cup if I am not wrong 48 teams have already played sir the main round is not 48 I think it will be the first round before the main round it will come in and then I think as much as it is Arjun Bhai Chung was saying this only that until we at the Asian level at that continental championship that happens in Asia we consistently manage to get out of the group phase play knockout games have these exciting one off situations with the bigger teams in Asia and then spring some surprises then our players get recognized as commodities who are able to do what their counterparts from other countries are able to do as well so we talk about we were talking in the context of why Indian players are not keen to go abroad and play because there are multiple factors but one of the factors that he was bringing up was that why would a club be interested in filling their limited quota of foreign players with an Indian player unless that Indian player is able to generate some kind of interest that of course on the pitch but also beyond it so it's critical for the national team to do well for the sport to grow that we've seen that cricket I mean nothing has proven that more than cricket in this country but when that will happen in our lifetime but cricket domestic was very robust always all I am saying is that I mean domestically even the football structure has been robust we have a long history and tradition of playing the sport with a lot of populace some would argue at some point in the 50s 60s at least at the same level as cricket you know but where we went from there and the direction in which the two sports went I think some of it has to do with how the national team has done the men's national team of course I think they are smarter also they are smarter they have started moving at a much faster pace we are sitting in the legs in the legs we are running the legs the legs was the best time what happened? you put the AC on the legs because the legs are getting better but I'll still be hopeful Arjun like what Chunidha said in an interview some years ago that it's a generation thing maybe we'll stumble upon the generation there was a generation in the 2000s which Sukhi sir was the coach you should have won the Donacharya he is very happy about it but yeah that was one generation brilliant generation which nobody now talks about but I really miss that is knock out tournament these players came up there is so many knock out tournaments so many knock out tournaments so nobody in India can play 120 minute matches anymore have you seen one domestic 120 minute match in the last five have you seen one 55 penalty to match in the last five years in a big competition there is a very favorite coach of ours he was a very good player in the same time when Sukhi sir was the coach and he is now a coach and he was telling us during one of the ISL think that for one international level match you need to play five ISL games for the equation it's equal to that there is no push intensity basically maybe your Dabi from next year will be different but a player doesn't understand the drive or the push now Siddharth you are a one tournament country with no relegation exactly that is the worst you tell me Arjun how without relegation what a footballer will do what is only for you played a lot so that you closely follow the league and what you see you can notice I am not going to say that the football is bad it has become better yes you have five foreigners there but there are stages during the league when people move back there is no intensity means the sideways passing is going on the small sideways passing is going on and someone is closing the square pass is going on that is the hallmark of less lack of intensity as kids Siddharth would also agree we ran when we played we ran more than we showed our skills sometime a few years ago when I tried to play with some kids in the park I realised they ran very little but they had so much better skills very technically the EPL has worked on TV the Spanish league has worked on TV they know how to flick the balls they are much fitter in a very you can't make out sets in a very understandable way so they run less I was the only guy who was still doing box to box in a half way by that logic players maybe are more aware now skill wise how to do that but as you pointed out do you understand the intensity to play out a 120 minute match what it takes the emotional toll your brain stops working those kind of things that's why Sunil Chaitra is important because he is the last guy to do that score at the death push it there I don't know of anybody else who is doing that on a regular basis true when you said that it's very embarrassing when you go on the field we stand as a caller and they make a strategy I am telling you the best way to do it is to hit the ball and then no one will come near you anyway so it's good to be upended by younger generation they can put you in place that's a sign for hope like you say a new generation might come but I think if we had a big tougher domestic system then in the 2019 year cup we wouldn't have considered the last minute penalty that is my belief who has ever done it I don't want to take the player's name but that kind of pressure with one minute left that when you have there was a well oil team there was a well oil team you have to give credit to constantine for bringing that team up full mass to constantine but he must be in his mind cursing the system if the system had a tougher domestic system this would have been now you compare between 1960 to final we were in the second round you compare the 1960 to final they were almost out but they fought back because they were used to the domestic setup the players were smart enough to understand what the demands are that Asia cup 2019 the players would have played for a win then play for a draw and then get it out you know you play safe and then you don't do it the best way to do is to play for a win that comes from understanding everyone has discussed that he got his tactics wrong where you set up yourself only to draw that game in a sense but I am just saying the build up the players don't understand or get the fact that this is how you played out it's been something that national team coaches have brought up consistently for like 20 years or more about the density you don't have a proper domestic structure you are not the previous where they were used to it they knew how to take pressure they knew they understood that concept is missing concept is not there now your domestic structure is that you don't have to go to the second division you have to play don't play 1 point low, 2 point low, 3 point low what is the second division playing for what is the ambition when there is no promotion when there is no promotion you know I will give you an example with these corporate entries and all our dear friend he is making a team in i-league now the point is I have of course been talking to him a lot about the team that he is making he is saying I am exempt relegation so I will try whatever I have to I am not scared I will try whatever I have to but in a sense relegation there is a little bit of a how do I put it even in the context of reality TV even in the context of reality TV reality TV reality TV reality TV reality TV reality TV but even in the context of what Gupta is trying to achieve let's say he has got a direct entry into the i-league and he then decides to field a completely indian squad with a large number of 121, 122 players so he is trying to get these players to learn something, to get a sense of that intensity, get a sense of you know all playing games with a consequence but if there is no consequence in that structure of that game then from where you will tell or teach or experience from where you will get true that's exactly what I was trying to say but it's so much that whenever we do our own football we play yes in this we go up to 120 minutes with equal intensity in fact towards the end intensity increases because we know that we are from the domestic structure from 9 to 10 minutes okay sorted guys, I think brother has given a cue, otherwise the newspaper itself will close anything Siddharth and Jetip you guys want to add before we wrap up the show anything I only want to add one thing with 62 sir 62, I want to add one thing now it is perhaps time is really running out somebody should go out and make a small film on the six pairs who are alive still talk to them, go to their houses do something which will remain with us what happened, so some first hand account will remain with us what I am discussing I will get on the call with you after this and we will discuss the plan and take it forward okay brother, it has become a film it will remain as a document with us that is the problem also if the sports ministry is so keen on giving away some awards and by extension the larger idea of this government recognize the players before they they pass on give the partnership give what it deserves give give franko something let indersin get something let parmenza get something those kind of things because these awards mean a lot for these guys if you talk to them if you understand time will get these awards mean a lot to them at some point because that is the only recognition they can go by it is a big enough thing for them why not it is a beautiful thing for the nameplate on his home guys thank you so much for joining us just for everyone who is watching I haven't taken any of your questions because they were not really on the 62 team majority were known east Bengal and so on and so forth don't mind them now tell you one more thing the four beautiful faces these four beautiful faces will come to you on tuesday tell me what time is tuesday you will put the notification but what time is tuesday sorry i was muted you were off you will confirm because we are running channel so we have to coordinate with other people as well but we will do it in in the earlier part of the day cool maybe around noonish but please follow us on newsweek sports as well as if you can follow Ajahn Pandit or myself he will put out updates on tuesday is the 8th right tuesday is the 8th so tuesday the 8th we are going to be talking about east Bengal and their so called entry into the ISL and what were the inner workings of that deal who helped getting sponsorship and eventually what were the kind of discussions that took place that right now we are talking east Bengal is back in the ISL guys once again thank you so much for joining and sunday 2 pm chat continues sunday 2 pm is our next show on youtube news clicks youtube channel definitely by sunday we will also know what time on tuesday we will be coming to you live again so that should we will put that out then as well perfect and spread it to all your friends just spread this show to all your friends and if not just atleast read up on the 1962 asian games gold winning team just go on wikipedia get to know the names of all the team members and what they have achieved for this country this is the best football team india ever had i think we should just go over that this is a tiny or maybe done if you like football then you must know what india's best ever football team thank you so much for watching goodbye