 The meeting to order 602 PM first on the agenda is to approve the agenda. If you know that the. This one and maybe, maybe future other ones when we have a lot of. When we have a lot of appointments, we move the. Trying to find it public comment. It's after John. So we move the public comment period to after the seven o'clock. Because there was. Three, three appointments, you know, the appointments usually, you know, some, some may be quicker than other ones. And sometimes, you know, you get the public comment period that, you know, most of the time is nothing, but if somebody did have something that took a little while, it does mess with the appointment. So we'll just try it like this and see how it goes and get it done. So we're going to move that one to July. So we're going to move that one to July. If we want to. Do that going forward or switch it back or do something different. So. So first is just to, um, to approve the agenda or make any changes to the agenda. If anybody has anything. So the mass coma bank tax anticipation note is going to get moved to our next meeting in July. Because the attorney, our lawyer hasn't had a chance to go over to look at the loan documents yet. So. So we're going to move that one to July. The first meeting in July. Sounds good. Anything else. That's all I have. I moved to approve the agenda as amended. Back and back up. Favorite. All right. And then first on the. We talked about, we have, uh, Michael and Bill Crossman in regards to Spooner road. So a little. Little quick history on that. And trees feel free to jump in at any point. Um, so there's a, well, we'll call it a culvert, but it's a converted. The converted oil tank from. Many, many years ago that was placed in the ground on Boone road, which is a class four road. Uh, and used as a culvert. And over the years that, you know, there's been multiple times where the culvert has either been, you know, water has overtaken it. Um, the. Um, the Irene storm that we had. The culvert was damaged. Um, at that time, I guess there was some promises that were. Made maybe that, um, uh, with some of the FEMA money that they were going to replace that, um, culvert slash oil tank culvert, uh, with something more permanent going forward. And at some point through that. Tropical storm Irene repairs that didn't get done. Um, I don't know if that was either due to funding or, or what happened. Um, so as it stands right now, we have. Um, we have a lot of, um, you know, you know, you know, you know, there's a culvert that's there right now that, you know, really has passed its prime and has failed. And just a matter of time before, um, you know, either falls in or gets washed out again. I'm sure there's photos in your packet. You all got the photos. Right. Pack it. Yeah. So Teresa and I. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Probably three weeks ago. Maybe. Yeah, I don't know. Um, so we went, went up there and looked at it. Um, I mean, I guess the, the two things, and you can see it from the pictures very easily. The two things that's going on there is one. The, the over, doesn't divert the water correctly to begin with. Cause as you can see, there's holes in it. The water flows around it through it under it. Um, and then you can also see that the road, um, if you can see on top of it, that the roadway is starting to squash the pipe, meaning that it's failing from the top. How, why does that road, uh, tell from the picture? It was about 12 feet, maybe. Yeah. I'd say somewhere around there. Um, so Teresa and I went up and looked at it, um, with the guys and, and, you know, I know that. You know, with our fourth class road policies, you know, typically we don't, um, there, there's been some history in the town where we have done some work. I know most recently we haven't, um, but we do have some of these, uh, old antique structures out there, um, that could potentially be, um, well, not good. They are liability and could potentially fail at any time. And then we'll have to do something. Um, so I guess this is kind of more one of these, like let's be proactive rather than reactive type scenarios. Um, at least with the current, um, administration. So, uh, we went and looked at it. Um, uh, and then Teresa has gone and just grab some quotes on some different ways and maybe we can, um, fix that either, you know, permanently, permanently or semi permanently. And then see, you know, with the board here, you know, I guess the big things to the board is one, you know, what do we want to do? Cause. Whatever we do on one class fourth road, we'll have to do on other ones, um, as well as, you know, what's the cost? When can we do it? Um, you know, how, how would we go about funding it? Um, and. Right. Challenge a little bit looking through the fourth class. You're mute. I can't hear you all of a sudden, Chris. Uh, can you hear me now? Okay. I hear you first. Is it my dog panting too heavily? Is that this? Um, so I guess we have, we have a couple of challenges, you know, as a, I know it just seemed like all of a sudden your internet. So I think we have a couple of challenges as a town. Um, one. Um, you know, we have our currently our current, uh, fourth class road policies, um, who adhere to, um, to, and then there's a mixture of, you know, what we should be doing as a town, if you, you know, if you read through the, the leagues information on fourth class roads, um, you know, what they recommend, um, to the towns is slightly different than what our policy states. Um, you know, so where, where do we go? Um, I know we've been, for the most part, we, and, um, pretty concerned on whatever the matters are in town. Um, to kind of be prepared that whatever we do on one road, we would have to do on another. Um, so. Teresa, you're unmuted. I think now. I got it. Yeah. I think that there's some truth to that. Um, you're right. That obviously what you do. I don't know if we should move on to the next one. I think we'll move on to the next one. Um, this one is hopefully another, but I think there's different circumstances too. I think that as I tried to outline in the town manager's report that one of the idea of using the Penelo deck was Chris's. Which was a good one because the cost of replacing that, which we use the term culvert. It's an old fuel tank that they dragged back in a place after Irene, and we did get FEMA money to put that back and place after and Chris had asked me to speak to a couple people. I talked to Gary Slack and I spoke with Carl Russell to see kind of what the history was of Class 4 roads and Bethel and what we had done over the last, you know, a few years. That was Chris's question. So this has been an ongoing issue since Irene or before Irene, but during Irene the Colvert, well the oil tank was out and then they were promised a new box culvert, but obviously they couldn't get a lot of FEMA money for Class 4 roads, but they did end up allowing them to drag the tank back in place. So I guess the fear right now, you know, with the residents there, you know, is at some point, you know, either through, well either through another storm event or as you can see from the pictures, the weight of the road on the pipe right now is failing. So one or the other is going to fill that pipe and at that point, you know, the town's going to be responsible to fix it somehow. Now if that's either, you know, whatever, whatever means it might be, you know, temporarily anyways, but through the hydraulic study, the hydraulic study was in there, correct, Trice? Yes, yes. So through the hydraulic study, the pictures, I mean, you'll see it's, it's just like given us, it's just like anything other than that. Yeah, and it's just like anything, you know, if you want to add on to a house, whatever, you're going to bring things up to code. So if it does happen there, which it's going to happen, it's just a matter of what month or year it does, we would have to build that culvert then permanently back to what the hydraulic study would be. But it would be significantly higher than the proposed fix with, you know, if we did something with the Pinello Bridge there or something. So I guess the first thing for the board is, you know, do we want to be active, you know, on this or reactive? And two, you know, how would we go about doing it? When would we do it? I'd suggested that Trice maybe looking out there to see the state doesn't directly give you any fourth-class money. But sometimes there are other identities out there that do have some stormwater management grants, things like that, that it might not pay for the whole pipe, but might pay for a piece of that type of deal. So it almost looks like a pre-existing condition to the redone class 4 standards that we just went through. So I mean, as you can see from the pictures, and I mean, there's no doubt about it that it's failing. I mean, it's pretty easy to see. But which Pinello Bridge deck are you talking about? So when, well, I guess one potential fix is to get the decking that we took, well, not we, but the decking that Dylan took off the Pinello Bridge, he still has it. Oh, okay. So I had thought of, you know, that you could place, you know, a piece of that decking there now and use that, you'd keep the existing culvert, I guess, or a fuel tank in the ground. But what it would do is it would alleviate that the issues of the weight of the road squashing that pipe down, you know, water still would flow kind of the way it is now, but it would alleviate the issues with the subgrade pushing down onto the pipe. You know, and in case you don't realize with these culverts, I mean, the kind of the way this thing is designed anyways is to, well, during high flow, high flow of vent events as to the water is going to go over the pipe. That's kind of the intention of the way that is designed, even though it's a fuel tank, but it would kind of be the same thing with the, if you put a slab of the bridge there, if you did have a high flow event that the water chances are still would go at or over the bridge, but the structure would be sound enough to not disturb anything. Chris, how long are the slabs? Because to reach the banks and get into solid material on either side of the existing culvert, it needs to be pretty long slab for the weight to not be on the culvert and to be being carried by the banks. I measured it and I think they're only 20 feet long. Is that correct? Yes, they're 20 feet long and they were going to dig down and put some concrete block on either end. I think they're going to anchor the deck to the concrete block so it won't put any more pressure on the culvert. Oh, I see. So in a high water event, the water will go over it, will go around it, it'll wash out the ends. It's going to still keep them washing out. I can't see how it can. And it might, but that may be, you know, with the rip wrapping out on both sides, it may overflow and but recede back into the brook. So our hope is that it, even if it overflows, that it's just, it's not going to take everything with it. I think you had four major flood events. I think Bill said in the last, how many flood issues, Bill? What years? I think the original one washed out in 72 and then they washed out in 98, 07, 11, Irene and 19. Well, 19 had to wash out, but it washed a bunch of gravel out of the way. So it's three or four times in the last 20 years. Last April, it washed out and needed to be filled a year ago. And if anybody, if anybody has the opportunity to go up and look at where this is at, I mean, most of the time it's, it's not a dry stream bed. It's, you know, it has water flowing through even on the low times, but it's not a lot of water, but it's, you know, it's a purge of a storm, you know, the water is going to come roaring through there. And it's regards to what you have for a structure there, the water is going to come over it. I think that's true. I mean, even in April, we had that same, you know, in certain, when you get that much rain a short amount of time, a lot of stuff we have in Bethel, it just can't handle it. So it's hard to design for the once every, you know, four times in 40 years. I mean, I guess the thoughts that I had after going looking at it is, at least my opinion was one, we should probably be proactive to this because it costs us less money if we fix it now, rather than if we had to go in and temporarily fix it to fix it right, you know, type of deal. On the other hand, and I think that there's, you know, we've talked about a couple of scenarios of how to fix it. But I also think that we, you know, currently we don't have the money in the budget to fix it right now. But I guess the way I was thinking is that we would put it ahead as a, you know, project that we would like to move forward here in the next year and try to find some grant money to match with that. I did, I know that the structures grant I already wrote for another bridge, which I told you. So, you know, it's hard sometimes to find money for class four roads. I did put a spreadsheet in there showing you where the money, you know, out of the capital road fund that I did put that in there. Did you see that Chris, the spreadsheet? Yeah, the capital road money for breakdown. So, where I'm going to find the money, where there'll be grant money for that. And frankly, if we were going to write another structures grant, we have bigger issues that I think that we would want to try to get a grant for versus this $11,000, you know, $12,000 because, you know, East Bethel and some of these other bridges are big money. And, you know, I just feel like we would want to write the structures grant for something bigger. And class four roads are hard to find unless maybe a better back roads grant, but it's hard. Well, that's what I was thinking. Usually they have better back roads or or the other ones slip in my mind right now. Well, they've changed the name of them a few times, so. But, you know, usually they give you like $2,500 grant or something like that. It's not going to be $12,000, you know, maybe it's $5,000 or $10,000. Yeah. So, and I just, yeah. And we look, we have a list of road issues. So it's not like we have a shortage of places to write grants for, but, you know, the ones that we're writing now are for obviously for bigger bridges with more traffic. So this seems like an issue that we could possibly resolve on our own. You know, the other thing is too, is that I said in there that I believe that Bill Owens, like 60 acres. So he is probably trying to do his forest management plan. And obviously can't get a logger in there. My question was, is the Pinella Bridge solution going to be effective for log trucks going over there? They thought so. Yeah, I talked to the, I talked to McCullough, to Dylan and to his dad, James, and they both felt that, yeah, that they said, yeah, you could put a log truck over it. You've got other land owners that probably need to get to their wood logs too. I'm sure that's true. It's more than just the wood log. Do we have to go through natural resources on working in the stream bed? If we do it this way, we won't get in the stream bed, but we did have Jaren take a look at it. So I've spoke to him about it. I think he's been up there before. So if we wouldn't actually be in the stream bed this time, so we wouldn't have any equipment in there. But if it requires a permit, I'll find out from Jaren anyways. I don't know if it will, because we won't be down in the stream mow like we will when we do pee vine and other projects we've done in the past. Oh, you're right. My mow, you and I have had this conversation, you know, that we, you and I kind of share the belief of Gary Slack, that our class four roads, they're town roads, and we probably ought to put a grader up them and a few things, you know, once a year try to get a rotation. So maybe all class four roads could get hit within a two year period of time and, you know, trim some trees and they are ours and we are responsible for them. So I think you and I kind of share that. So other than the riprap on the, on the outer edges, we're not going to be touching the fuel tank and the immediate area around where the water comes through now. That would be, yeah, that'd be the plan as we wouldn't, we'd leave the oil tank in place, because once you take that out, that obviously the price jumps up significantly because then you'd be removing all the structures. So, and, you know, starting from square one, if we did this, we wouldn't pull the oil tank, we'd leave it. And if it ever floods out, you know, we have a big enough flood and it came out, then obviously we'd have to go get it and retrieve it. But at this point, the plan was to leave it in place. Well, that's not going to remediate any of the flow issues. And the flow issues are when we have a big storm, they don't have daily issues and they can go a few years without an issue. It's one that we get a flood event just like anybody else. And, you know, obviously anything that we do that's not big mitigation is going to be, I think that, you know, A&R may consider it a, you know, temporary fix, but they don't care if we make a temporary fix, you know, and this may last us a long time. Are we going to be throwing good money after bad on a temporary fix or what? Well, I use the word temporary fix only because that's what Jaron called it here. Or, you know, he said, his comment was, look, you have the hydraulic study. And I think if you look on page, let me see, shoot, hang on. So there's, there's probably about three different ways that we could do this one. One would be, you could do a precast, concrete structure, like a box. That's, by far, would be the most expensive route. So they would take out, you know, the same structure, bring that precast, concrete box in there, set that, you know, do your rip wrapping, you know, replace your, your gravels on top. You need wing walls. Yeah, it probably would get into some wing walls. You know, if, if I had to guess, you're probably a project like that, you know, you're probably talking, you know, north of 50 grand. And then the other option you could do is you could get what they call like a squash pipe. You know, you can get a corrugated steel pipe that, you know, they're already kind of flattened a little bit. You know, you take the old one out, put the new one in, you know, redo your approaches and your material over it, which I think Teresa and I were kicking that one around, you know, that was probably more in the 30 grand or more. Yeah. If you look at page two under page one and two under recommendations, Mo, it gives you four, basically four options as to what they had recommended with the hydraulic study. Yeah. When I asked Jaren about it, he just said, look, Trees, basically what he goes, I'm going to tell you is if you do anything other than one of those, they consider it a cool, unquote, temporary fix. Now you and I know it could last 30 years, but we just, you know, that's the way he coins it. So his term, not mine. I mean, I think it's kind of unique thinking that I mean, we're in a little bit of a unique situation because we, you know, we just tore down the old Pinella Bridge and, you know, we do have there, well, not our, but, you know, with a contract that has that their disposal. So I think there's an opportunity for us to do it for about a third of the cost. And, you know, we could put a corrugated steel pipe in there or we could put this, you know, Pinella Bridge deck on there and it could wash away next, you know, next spring with the big, you know, I mean, it's never, I would say just based on history, you know, back in the 70s, they put a fuel tank in the ground, you know, and here we are 40 some odd years later and the tank still in the ground. So, you know, is that when the fuel tank bill went in in 72? No, no, I believe that's when the original bridge washed out and then Charlie Spooner allowed the town to lower the classification from three to four and they never replaced it. And then Frank Forrest actually put the fuel tank in there because he owned land above us. When did that go? When do you think? Um, mid-80s. Yeah, early 80s. So, so again, you've got, you know, you know, we're pushing again 30 to 40 years that that makeshift fuel tank culvert's been in there. So, I mean, I would say if, you know, if we spend, you know, the money that we were talking about in there, whatever it was, $12 or $13,000 to do, to use the Penelope's, I mean, if we could get the same lifespan out of that, it's paid for itself, you know. But nothing's given, you know, where we live and be all fixing it again. If we're going to do this, I think we ought to have in our next budgets and future budgets to have, say, five to $10,000 in there for class four road maintenance. I think that's a great idea, Mo. I think that's a great idea, Mo. Because, you know, the maintenance. Yeah, we won't have to be looking for money every time a situation comes up. We'll have the money in there just to use it for class four road, nothing else. It could increase our appropriation to the Capitol Road Fund and we could, then, you know, you can carry it on and then we could earmark it for class fours. I think it's a great idea. I'd want to earmark because future boards might just say, well, let's take that money. Yeah, but I think you're right. I think that we need to, the budgeting for class four road maintenance is a great idea. I agree with you. What do we think, I mean, it sounds like, unless I'm wrong, it sounds like from the board we have mostly a consensus that we need to do something there. What are we thinking about a timeline? Would we like to try to do something now and we could probably take it from the highway fund? Or do we want to wait to the budget season in September and put it in the budget for the next year and do it? I mean, what do we think for a timeline? So we either do it this now, sooner, like this July, or we're going to do it in a year from now in July. I mean, I have my concerns about that, about the stability of that thing for another year. Now that we've all, you know, now we've had a good look at it and you've all seen the photos. But, Therese, where would the money come from? I'd put a spreadsheet in the packet and capital road fund. Yeah, I just wanted to make one point. It's more than just logging trucks. It's propane trucks. It's wood trucks. It's gravel trucks to bring gravel over to the other side. Yeah, I mean, that, you know, that's something that I have been remiss in stating is if you haven't been up there is that Bill and Michael have done an amazing job. I mean, that class four road, frankly, is better than some of our threes. Class three roads, and I'm sure that since you're next going to talk to the residents of Sand Hill, they could say that. And, you know, Michael and Bill have been great stewards of that road and put a lot of money in, obviously, over the years, grading and gravel, etc. So, I mean, I've driven up there a couple times now and it's good. They do a nice job. So, they've been great. Over the years, I've set like 17 culverts, I believe, from like the beginning of the, from where Charlie Schoen used to live up to my driveway, surprising when there's that many, but. Yeah, no, I'm not surprised. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to be a stick in the mud, but I read the policy and it seems like that the responsibility of the maintenance of this is we can say no. If we don't, and a lot of these things that we allow people to do, does that mean that we are now responsible for maintaining these things? You've always been responsible for maintaining them. It's just the way you, the policy, the way you chose to, we wrote that class four road policy, but I think, you know, by all intents and purposes, we are responsible for their class four roads. And I think you had the information there the way that obviously Chris will tell you that VLCT can be very conservative in their interpretations, but they certainly were clear with this one. And, you know, that's still their class four roads. And as Mo says, there's still our roads. I mean, the way it's written now, Dave, is it pretty much gives the town, the wiggle room, to either go in and do something or not. It doesn't really exactly say that it's on the landowners, but it doesn't say that the town's going to maintain everything either. So I think I read that the town can grant or not grant permission to put those culverts in. They were done. I mean, I mean, I've been around the Stoneville Club. I worked on these class four roads for a lot of years now. And we went through a lot of times when the town just said, nope, sorry, it's class four road. We do not touch it. We will not touch it. We will never touch it. So you're on your own. I think that's true. I mean, I think that was the way we wrote the policy. There's a water quality issue, too, as far as still tilting up the rivers and phosphate when it washes out. That happens. And wherever what will, when it doesn't matter, what road washes out, that happens. It's true. And I do think- This hasn't been tried in the Supreme Court yet, has it? This hasn't been tried in the Supreme Court yet. No, I don't believe so. Not as of last year. The town may be obligated to repair an out of repair unsafe road if a petition to repair the road is filed by three citizens of taxpayers. So there is a possible course to litigation. I think that the class four road policy allowed you the ability to look at each situation on its own merits. And I think, you know, kind of reading through the policy again here, Dave, if you look at the policy on the first page section wonder maintenance by town, again, it gives the town with the room. So if you look under section 2a about summer maintenance, it says that any summer maintenance of class four highways accept to the extent required by necessity and the public good and convenience of the inhabitants of the town. So basically it's saying, you know, that if the town wants to go up there and graded or not, we don't have to. But if there is a need, so in this case, if let's say tomorrow the covert washed out, that that would be a public necessity that we would have to go in and do some sort of temporary measures to get them, you know, to and from home. That's kind of the way I read it, unless others read it differently. Have any of you people driven out Fire Lane or Pikes Peak Road, Halls Peak Road, there's people living out on them and they are some of the worst roads that I've ever seen. Yeah. That I'm going to let Alan know, Mo, and it sounds like he definitely needs to get out there with a grader because that's, is that off the top of McIntosh near Albin Hill Road. Pikes Peak is where Gary Slack used to live. Okay. Where's Fire Lane? Halls Peak and then Fire Lane is out further on that hill. Okay. So I'll get Alan to go out there and, you know, kind of make a note of Fire Lane and Paul's Peak. There's another one that goes out by the, there's another road that goes out by the solar panel fields. There's a health way out the end of that. Is that the one where they just put the cell tower? That's off that hill too. Oh, off from Darry Hill. Okay. No, not cell towers, but the, you know, that's where they are. Those are all class four. Yeah. Those are all class four. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a Colvert, a big Colvert on Pond Road that needs replacing. Yep. Which is by Doug's, Doug's house. And I've known three or four people have asked for Colverts on class four roads, but I assume they weren't spying them. So I kind of blew them off. You know, I mean, I think Bill just made a good point. But now I won't. I'll sign them to the town. I think that, you know, Bill made a good point over the years. He's put in, you know, 17 Colverts. And we obviously know we have roads with issues. So I think that your, your tact is, is, is a good one, Mo of saying, okay, look, we're going to budget X amount of dollars each year in the budget for just class four road maintenance. And like, you know, we can't write the ship in one year, but I think that keeping a list of these things and starting to tackle them is, is, is an excellent idea, Mo. And we can make a list and we just, you know, each year spend five, 10 grand on them and eventually we'll make our way around. I mean, I, again, I think, I think that section two, section two, a section maintenance by the sound kind of maintenance by the town sums it up here. So I, again, it gives the town just enough wiggle room that we can go and put a covert in, but, you know, but then we're not obligated anything else on the road. You know, I mean, just because it doesn't mean now we need to grade it and maintain it and plow it. So I get, it does give you some wiggle room that, you know, the thing is, you know, right now as who knows, I mean, maybe that covert lasts another 10 years or maybe it washes out this fall. I mean, you just, you never know how long it's got, but if something big did happen, some big event, we would have to, it would cost the town money to go up there and do something temporarily. Or maybe it collapses when a truck's driving across it. If you put in the Ponella bridge and take the pressure off the culvert the next time the hot water comes through, it may cause that to go away. Maybe, yeah. If you take the pressure off the culvert. So I guess, you know, through the board wise, is there anybody currently that's opposed to the proposed corrections to the, I haven't, I haven't heard the exact correction with a dollar that you're attached. Okay. It was in the packet. So it's a, what we're looking at is taking $11,600 and doing, putting the concrete blocks, digging them in, and we'll rip, wrap off the corners, both ends of the culvert on four sides. And we're going to anchor the old Ponello bridge deck into those concrete blocks. So we're going to leave the existing structure in place, which is the fuel tank, but so we're basically going to take the pressure off it and put it onto the bridge deck onto the concrete blocks. So do we need to do side rails or anything like that? No, they don't have them now. So I don't think so. A lot of truck over it or something like that. And I don't know. I just wanted to be sure. And then there was the other option in there. If we were to take the fuel tank out and do the chamber, that was going to be, you know, more closer to like 30,000. Yes. That's the only thing I can find in my packet. I don't see anything about the blocks and whatever, but anyway, it's just in my town manager's report. What's the same thing about blocks though? It just says the price and it says I have two cost estimates. One is to concrete blocks and rip, wrap over the culvert. But anyways, that's the explanation. We were going to give it to you. So that's how we're talking about anchoring it. So, okay, I didn't know what the blocks. Does that make sense, Dave? Okay, I see it now. Yeah, I just think that like everything else in this town, we're going to end up, our budget is just going to grow by leaps and bounds because whatever. Well, you know how it is, Dave. We have a lot of road maintenance to do all the roads. I mean, we have projects on Sand Hill, Christian Hill, Camp Brook. I mean, it's an ongoing list and we'll do what we can and every year we can write grants for, you know, paving and, you know, structure grant, things like that and we can get, if we're lucky, we'll get a paving grant every three to five years and we're going to have to just do what we can. I mean, there was a lot of things left undone and, you know, as Chris always says, you can't write the ship in one go and that's just going to take us time. We're going to have to peck away at it in a financially feasible way. Hopefully the liability that was being talked about is true because I know Stockbridge was rebuilding a bridge up in, what is that road? Doesn't matter. One of their roads and they didn't get to put the railing up. A guy fell over and sued him for a ton of money and they lost because they didn't have a railing on it. Were they replacing an existing bridge? Yes. Maybe that was it. I'm not sure. So this doesn't have one either. Anyway, I'm sorry to be so worried about liability, but boy, every time you turn around, somebody got their hand out. Chris, could you check in? Could you check in with like the league or somebody to see? Sure. Maybe there's a measurement you need to take from, you know, how high the bridge is off, the water is thin and railings or some sort of. At least the guide rail, you know, it's nothing else. I'll find out because there's not now existing, but I will find out what the situation is. We've got an awful lot of roads without guide rails that drop off 30, 40 feet. Exactly. I think there might have been mitigating circumstances with the other town, I don't know, but I can certainly find out. And then just to compare the, you know, we're looking at 11,600 to hopefully, you know, right the ship for 30 plus years. You know, that thing washed out tomorrow and we had to go up there and put a stick of pipe in and pay for the material. Even if we did it ourselves, we'd be talking like two or $3,000, you know, just to go do a temporary measure. Yeah, because the pipe itself, I mean, that's huge, Chris, a piece of culture that's hot. Yeah, you're a couple grand just for the pipe, you know. Well, and how are they going to cross it? I mean, if it fails tomorrow. I was just saying on a temporary measure, just that. Oh, yeah. Maybe if you put like a 24 inch one in there just to get them over it, you know. Yeah. It's significant money and then you would have to reinvent, then after that, then you'd have to figure out the permanent solution, which might be, you know, more than we're talking now. Oh, and they'd have to lift the road, too, to get the other culvert in there. That's there's pressure on that culvert now. Yeah. So I guess that. I've got a three foot culvert on my road that's the bottom's rotted out on class three road. Yeah, see. I took a picture of it during Irene, that's far as it went, because it was made out by itself. I guess the questions to the board right now would be, well, one, are we okay with proceeding with, you know, replacement or fixing this current culvert on Spooner Road? The second would be, you know, are we in a grants with the proposed, you know, bringing in the Penelabridge, putting, you know, replacing the approaches with concrete blocks, putting the Penelabridge on top, doing a little bit of rip wrapping on the corners. And then three would be, you know, the timeframe, are we looking, you know, do we agree to do it this season before wintertime, which we would borrow from the highway maintenance fund? Or would we put it off until next July, where we'd have the opportunity in this budget season to put that money allotted in there? So I guess those are the three questions that I guess we need as a board, need to answer. So I guess the first one is, if we can get a show of hands of the board members that are okay with moving forward with fixing the culvert on Spooner Road? Aye. So we got two. I will agree with this as long as I'm guaranteed that there's going to be money put into into a class 4 program. If it's not happening, then I'm not going to be very happy because we can't keep doing this because we got so many people. I mean, we could make all these class 4 road trails and just forget it. You know, that's an option we can do too. I think the top was to, you know, in this budget season, kind of like what we did this past season with, you know, we'd never budgeted any money for bridge maintenance. And, you know, I think this again is just another thing that we haven't budgeted for years in the town that we need to look forward on. I think there's good opportunities if we do budget some money in the class 4. There is likelihood that we could get some grant money from some of the other agencies that do small grants to partner that, you know, especially if it's stormwater management. Usually there's, you know, grants out there in regards to stormwater. Does anybody on the board have any guess to answer most questions? Anybody on the board opposed to starting either a fund or adding some money into the highway maintenance that would cover 4th class roads? I'm not opposed to it. I don't know if we could set an exact amount right here right now. No, I think no. I think Mo is just looking for the budget season. We can have a talk and our taxpayers just like you and me and everybody else. And so I think there is some responsibility on our part to get through the situation. Lindley, what do you think? Lindley is still there? Yeah, I'm still here. I like Mo's idea of specifically putting some money into the capital fund and earmarking it for class 4 roads. I also, I'm in support of doing this project now and I'm even in support of using the Canelo Bridge. I feel like Teri started to say a little bit ago, but I don't recall the answer and maybe you gave it. I know you put in our packets the using the capital fund money this year, but you also were starting to express some hesitation about whether this year or next year. I just kind of wanted clarity on where you stood on that because I really, I think you have the best handle on what needs to happen and how that, how this coming years budgets anticipated to be used. And so I kind of want to hear like, do you think it can fit into this year? And I think it can fit in this year because I put it into the capital road budget, so which is a capital fund, so it's not coming out of the general fund. So I that's, I was trying to think of the other projects that we had pending. I mean, I'd put in there obviously things we'd spent money on. I have Sandhill in there, East Bepple Bridge, Watershed, you know, trying to add the things that we're aware of right now that, you know, I mean, that's how you create a capital plan is to have the list of what you have that you know needs to be fixed and put it in there and start figuring out how you're going to pay for it. So I think that, so we certainly could do it this year. We have the, you know, ability to have to access to the deck, which was a good idea of Chris's certainly definitely a less expensive fix. And I wasn't going to budget for, you know, it's not going to come out of the actual road fund budget. It's just going to come out of the capital road budget. But I do want to sack and I think that Molo's plan is an excellent plan. And I'm happy that the board wants to do that. How does the, the board feel about the proposed fix of using the, the old Penella deck, you know, with the approach work that we talked about with the blocks and been doing the rip wrapping on the corners. What Michael and Bill think about the solution that would, that's going to work. I, I think that the slabs will, will work for a period of time. It's questionable how long. But any, anything, anything is, is good news. Anything that town will do for us will make me happy. I think that the, it eventually probably will fail, but like you just never know when. But I think that that's a good solution for now. And I think you're clearly saying that you're, that the town is responsible for keeping that road passable. And if it does wash out, you're going to do something about it. So it makes me feel good. Bill, what's your take? Yeah, it seems like the cheapest alternative at the same time that eliminates the liability and, and the potential failure and then not being able to get back and forth until something happens, until somebody puts in a temporary thing. If it happens to wash out, we're kind of stuck not being able to get past it. But yeah, I'd be happy with the $11,000 solution. It's better than what's there. And there'll be more riprap than, than is actually there. It seems like so. The board feeling on either doing it this season or putting it in our budget for next season. How much, how much do we have else to do? Do we have, is Dylan going to do this project? None of our work. Well, right now, right now, Dave, in the recall, we put money into the rehabilitation fund for this year. We don't plan on doing any product or we hadn't planned on doing any projects with that money. But we've also been, I'm not worried about the money. I'm worried about my, about our, our guys time. Do we, do they have enough, if they're going to do it, do they have enough time to do all the rest of the work they should be doing? And then, no, we wouldn't do it. We're not going to do the work. All right. That's my question. Does it have to go out for competitive bidding because of the costs or any of that kind of stuff? I don't think so. I mean, I think in this case, it's, if you would see that, if we put it out to bid, well, one, there's only one bidder that has the bridge deck. Unless it's got one kicking around. I'll just take a dot in the eyes and cross them the twos. Yeah. I mean, I think in this case, it's, you know, Teresa's kind of talked to the owner of the bridge deck and, you know, a roundabout way of saying, you know, the town kind of owns a portion of that. So, you know, help us out here and install that another road type deal. I mean, I guess, you know, I'm kind of with Mo a little bit and Dave, it's tough because our policy says that, you know, our policy gives us enough wiggle room to do whatever we want there. It mainly says that we're not going to be responsible for structures on fourth class roads. But the challenge we have right now is that the league has, the league has literature out there that talks about that the towns are liable for fourth class roads. So if something did happen, God forbid something did happen. And, you know, it collapsed and there was an accident, you know, it could expose the town to litigations based upon, you know, what the league has out there. And the league is our insurance, our insurance company. So it, you know, even though I may not like it, we're, in some ways, we're kind of almost forced into doing something because it's because of, but How far is there place over to truck road on the section of class four that's keeps going about a you mean from Macintosh side? Yeah, truck road. Yeah. Yeah. That's what about an eighth or a quarter of a mile from the other side. Right. Would it be cheaper to come that way? You'd have to upgrade a quarter of a mile of road that is, that is, has no gravel on it. It's totally washed down to bedrock. Yeah. I mean, it has to be wide. You can barely go through there with a Jeep. Yeah. There are a lot of our class four roads that way now because everybody goes in the spring tears them all out. Yeah. Probably once you got done mowing, you know, trim and clearing and putting material in there, we'd probably be talking the same amount of money if not more, you know, because the people on the end of Trump book right now, the existing class four road, they've upgraded that road tremendously. They got a nice place that on the end. I think the only, the only question that hasn't been asked that before, at least, you know, before I would want to vote on it is not really a matter that are we going to do it or not, but to know about if we have any liabilities on, if we don't put any guard rail or, you know, put the deck on, but don't have rail on there. I can find out. Is there a liability? Because I'd hate to move forward with the project and then find out we got to put rail and then the rail cost, I don't know, make it up $5,000 more than, you know, right? Is this a different solution where we could have just put a culvert in, you know, I can find out, you know, and then, and then, you know, it sounds like, sounds like the board is all four going forward with the project and the, with the current scope of work, as long as we don't have any other financial obligations there with safety and that sound right. So would we would, how would you rather see it, trees? Would you rather take emotion to move forward with the current fix as long as we don't run into any bridge railings or safety concerns there, or would you rather, you know, know tonight that we're going to move forward and take a vote next meeting after we have that information? I can go either way, whatever is, you know, I mean, I can, I guess if you make a motion based on the railing, I could move forward with the project. Once I get the answer, if I got the answer tomorrow or the next day, I could move forward with the project versus waiting two more weeks, but I'm not sure when they would have their schedule to get it done anyways. So what's the board feel? I'd like to see that information, see how it impacts the cost. Sure. Brady's getting impatient. Brady's getting impatient. You're gonna have to call 911 somebody. Yeah, I can hear him. He's literally crawling up my back. I can see ears over his shoulder once in a while. So is that what you want to do, table it? Well, I think, I think, you know, we've given, you know, everybody enough that that we, you know, are going to move forward as long as there's nothing other legality safety issues there. If I could make one more quick point. Haven't we had like 200 year floods and two 25 year floods in the last 20 years? So if it washes out and you guys have to put in something a lot more expensive, it seems like it would be easier to put that in now and cheaper than to wait for the next flood, maybe two, three, five years from now, since we've had so many in the last 20 years. That wouldn't happen any time soon. We don't, we don't have the money right now. We don't get any FEMA money for Clash Floor Road. Right. Well, I think, I think, you know, it's not that we're not going to do anything there, because I mean, even if they come back and say, okay, yeah, you would have to put railings on the bridge, right? But the other option at that time would be we could put a squash, corrugated steel pipe in there and do it that way. You know, because this cheap fix could turn into a more expensive one if you have to put ridger in. What I could just find out, I'll find out from BLCT what they say about that, whether or not it's going to need, you know, something on it. And then I can also at the same, if you just move it to a vote for two weeks from now, I can also figure out how much it would be for the squash pipe so that we have a couple of options. Would that make the board happy? If you ran into an issue, you mean? Yeah. Yeah, I'm fine. If we go a squash pipe, we're going to have to get into natural resources. I know. Because we're dealing with a stream bed. Yeah, exactly. Let's hope that the Pinella Bridge Deck piece works. And also if you could maybe get from the contract what the estimated construction time would be on that. Sure. You know, is that something he's going to be able to get in before fall or, you know. Yeah. I think that he would when we talk about it. And look at it and everything so we know the engineering, the theory is sound. Can we have, I didn't hear the first part. Did Dylan go up and look at it and give you a proposal so we know the engineering is what the concept is. Yeah, I mean, he went up and looked at it as did Chris and I and we, you know, talked back and forth. I didn't have an engineer do it because look at it. Obviously, that would be right. So it's a Mickey Mouse fix. Well, I won't call it that, but no, I mean, not entirely. I think it's more thinking outside the box with the resources we have available fix. So is that your plan? You want to move on to your next meeting and we'll just wait until the next meeting and I'll have the answers for you. Yeah. And then we could make the formal vote. Okay. Let's do that because you got your sandhill people waiting and John and all right. Thank you, everybody. We thank you for being on and thank you. I'll let you know. Yeah, Bill and Michael, I'll let you know what about the railing. I'll give you a call or text you and let you know what what the what they say about that. Okay. Well, thanks, Trice. Yep. Thanks, Bill. Thank you, Trice. Thanks, Chris. Thank you, everybody. Good evening. You too. You gonna be all right, Chris? No, I'm really not. When he gets it in his head that he wants to do something, he's stubborn. There's nothing I can do right now. I put him outside. He'll destroy the whole outside. Brady wants to play. Everybody has to play. So I'll take care of it. Yeah. Well, that Lindley and I will have a play date with the dogs while we're at our meetings. So all right. So we'll move along here or have to call. I'm scared to come get Brady. So we had the residence of Sand Hill. We apologize for a little behind. Sometimes that happens in our meetings. Sometimes we are punctual and on time. Sometimes we are ahead of time and other times we're behind. So so, Trice, do you want to kind of just open up? Sure. Yep. So I had talked to Janine and I spoke with Stan the other day when I was up there looking at Sand Hill. One of the situations with Sand Hill is we've talked about this before and it's a much bigger issue and a much bigger fix than anyone would like because we're talking about the fact that we would need to remove the pavement and we need to upgrade water. We need to upgrade stormwater and obviously take a look at sewer while we're under the road and we need to do all the infrastructure updates and then, you know, resurface the road. Obviously there was talk for a while leaving at a gravel and then there was talk of, you know, changing it to pavement. So one of the things we've been doing is looking for, looking at long term we have two big projects, Christian Hill and Sand Hill. And we will, I'll write paving grants for both but part of the problem is we're going to have, because we're doing the 2.8 million dollar water project right now, we don't have money just to do the water upgrades in Sand Hill as well right now. So we know we need to take care of it but it's going to be possibly a multi-year project. Right and I know that Sand Hill has been on our list and actually if we looked at a list there from a few years ago, it was going to actually start this year which, as Tres was saying, it was going to be kind of a phase project where the first phase would be doing the underground utilities because the water and storm drain systems need upgrading through there. And then the second phase would be, you know, the following year would be, you know, taking down the dirt and repave it. So of course that comes with a heftier price tag when you start digging under the road surface. So I know we have it, you know, it's on our to-do list. I know the town, you know, two years ago everything got shifted 100% to the waterline in the village mainly because of the situation with the state and making sure that we could maintain our license for water and things like that. So everything kind of got shifted immediately to water. And I know Tres and I have been working through currently on, you know, we did have some paved road surveys done or programs done through the town here over the years. And of course as each administration comes in and out, those change. So I know Tres and I have been working together on getting quotes. I just did a quote for the Sand Hill one, I'm sorry, the Christian Hill one. And we're kind of working through what we think will be a quote for the Sand Hill one. And then the other one we still have, you know, long-term big pain in the butt road is the Camp Brook Road. Long-term fixes for that road. So those are kind of our main three road properties in the town. So we had talked about putting it to gravel. We had talked about taking Spooner Road, making it a three-year project in the first year just putting, excuse me, putting a Sand Hill to gravel. Then the next year doing the infrastructure updates. And then the third year, you know, paving it or even possibly leaving it as gravel. But I'm not sure the residents, how the residents of Sand Hill feel about having Sand Hill remain gravel versus going back to pavement. I'm pretty sure I know how Stan feels about that. My wife just walked by. You want to hear what she's got to say? One of my concerns with gravel is you wouldn't believe the dust we get now when it's tired. There's a lot of side-row dust that comes in onto our porch and our house all the time. And if you go to just gravel for a year or a year and a half, it's really going to be bad. I think kind of talking with Therese recently, the best approach, what we would do is we would do the utility work, which would be kind of like what they're doing downtown right now, wherever they need to run a new waterline or put in a new catch basin or something like that, they would dig it up and then it would get patched back in with Hotmex for that year. And then, you know, phase two would be, you know, to come in and just take the whole road to dirt because the pavement and sub-base under that is just junk and then start over. So, of course, challenges right now is we don't want to put the cart in front of the horse and start the utility stuff if we don't have the money to pay that. So I think that I'm kind of looking at it is, at least for this year anyways, and we've talked about it already, is probably just tackling some of the problem areas with the pavement in a very temporary fashion, which is, you know, put some, you know, Hotmex in a hole. And then work with Tim, Tim, Therese and I will start working on an estimate to do the utility pieces on that road, which is the, well, I believe it's just the water and stormwater, right? Yeah, I think that sewer was okay, he thought. Yeah. Can I ask a question about the water line to, to upgrade that? Do you have to, can you go through the present pavement to some degree and then just patch that in until you can pave the following year? Yeah, so you, or do you look at us having gravel for at least one year? No, no, it would, well, the road's in bad shape that probably anything you do there, it's going to be almost gravel. But, you know, the idea would be to only cut the pavement out in the areas that you would have to either replace the water line or, or storm drain systems and patch those back in. So it would be a patchwork job. So I've been up, so what is your plan for Christian Hill? Are you planning to repave from 107 all the way to Sanders Road? What, what, what are you doing on that road? Actually at Christian Hill, we're talking about putting it back to gravel. I put that, we had a couple estimates. One is for paving and for one was for putting Christian Hill back to gravel. It was one of the estimates and that's, we talked about that. They have some big trucks up there and they've redone that piece, I believe a couple of times is my understanding. And then Chris had given us a couple estimates and in my road fund, we put the $40,000 fix, which was to put it back to gravel. So do you have money in the budget right now for Christian Hill? Long term, possibly. That's the hard, we're trying to hammer out the details of the capital planning. The one I have now has Christian Hill $40,000. That's if we decide to keep it as gravel and not pave it. If we're going to pave it, then that puts the whole project off and kicks everybody out a few years because you're only eligible for a paving grant every three to five years. All right. So I've been up Christian Hill a couple of times in the last couple of weeks and from Kirk White's all the way to Scamill Lane, that part of the road looks perfect to me. I mean, living on Sandhill Road, of course, it would, but and Dave, do you still live up on Christian Hill? I do. All right. So in a perfect world, I would rather that just seems to me like a project that can wait. Our road is so dire that I would love to just see that budgeted money with whatever it needs to happen for, obviously, it sounds like it's going to be in two phases. So if you do Christian Hill this year or next year, we're looking at three years out with this crappy, crappy road. I mean, it's what only if I know if we didn't pave Christian Hill and we put it back to gravel, then I have, you know, and we got a paving grant. I mean, I put a number in if we're right and, you know, for, yeah, 20 the fiscal year 2022 to 2023. So it depends too. Just because we apply for a paving grant doesn't mean we're going to get one. And we just are spending 2.8 million on the water project. Obviously, we're going to get some forgiveness and some grant money, but the water users are also going to have to bear the cost of when we dig up Sand Hill and updating that, you know, water line as well. So we're trying to manage water utility and that piece of it with projects to figure out what priority water has along with the same as what priority the road has. But one thing I made a solid decision yet about the capital road fund. I put it in the packet this week. One thing I'd like to see is I'd like a comparison of the traffic, a counter out here to count the cars and trucks that go up Sand Hill compared to Christian Hill. It's, I mean, we get logging trucks, you know, the double logging trucks. And of course the guys three of them today in the garage, this is their main drag, which they had, you know, they've got to use and they've got heavy loads at times too. And we get a lot of traffic. And now, of course, it's going to be temporary, but nobody's wanting to go down Main Street. So this is their new Main Street is, you know, around River Road, Pevine, and then Sand Hill Road. We get a lot, a lot of traffic. I think that would be a good idea. But it sounds like you can't use obviously. You definitely do. I mean, I sort of like an arrange for traffic counter. Yeah, I mean, it would be interesting to know. But I understand you won't be able to use your paving grant money for doing the water line. I mean, that has to come from somewhere else. And so what, what does that entail? And like how far up from say stands up, up to like the old Reynolds place or how far up does that, those repairs have to be made? Does anybody know or, or is it just those couple of drain places? Well, that the water system would have to get upgraded or replaced all the way up just past the town garage, correct, Therese? Because the system ends just past the town garage. And then the stormwater system, which is, you know, your, you know, the DI structures that are there currently would have to get done as needed. So whatever ones have failed would have to be replaced, which, you know, until we open those up and find out which ones I would, I would assume probably most of them need some sort of rehabilitation work to them. So I think right now we need to, like I was saying before, is get, get an idea of where we're at utility wise. So we could start the phase one piece of the sandhill road. And unfortunately, at the same time, we've had, you know, Christian Hill, which, it, you know, a year and a half ago, or I'm sorry, two years ago, from basically Kurt Weitz down to the tie-in, Route 107, it really wasn't really bad at all. And then the last two years, as soon as water gets in pavement, it's, and it must be the weight of the trucks going up through, but the, the issue we're having there now is the wheel ruts are so deep that they've become a safety issue, especially during the winter season, because you're still going to have snow in those areas. So we're, we're weighing our options on, you know, both projects. The challenging thing with sandhill is, if we could just go come in, take it to dirt and pave it, we'd be able to do that job quite soon. But because we got to do the utility work, that's, that's kind of the piece that's holding us up a little bit. So are we maybe looking at a two-year project where you come in and do the utility work and patch it? And then the next year, tear it down and pave it. So it's only a two-year project? That's kind of what we're looking at. Yeah. It sounds to me like that first phase can't even start till 2022. Well, we don't know. We don't know because we don't know how much it's going to cost us. And I think what Theresa's is doing right now, all we can do right now is we're going to get an estimate of how much it will cost us to upgrade the water system and rehabilitate the stormwater system there. Will that give us better water pressure for the bicentennial lane people? I think, yeah, Will, if we upgrade the water line, it will. The water line upgrading up Sand Hill will definitely help your pressure on bicentennial. Yeah. And so we just need to figure it out, frankly. I mean, we need to get an estimate on the utilities. The stormwater, Stan was gracious enough to show me and it's up in people's yards. So I think that not only will we be upgrading the water, we're going to end up putting in new stormwater because Stan had showed me where some of it is maybe a little bit outside of our right away. I'm not sure, but we may end up having to spend quite a bit of money to on the stormwater because that's an issue. If we don't fix the stormwater, just going to continue to erode their road. The other issue too is you have been getting, you have been the recipients of some horrible cold patch. And so I did speak with Allen about that. He's getting some hot patch and he's going to make some fixes properly so that they can be, the hole will be dug out. You can apply some tack and you can actually make a proper fix so that it will last because the cold patch, every time everybody drives over it, sticks to your tires, underneath your car. And so we do need to smooth out some areas. And I think that with some hot mix, he could actually fix some places on your road that are bad, that are not being properly fixed now. That was a good point, Matrice. We're already looking at an increase in the water and sewer rates to deal with the 2.8 project. And then this project added on top of that, we really have to look at the cost and see how we can feather that into the budget. So we don't end up with huge increases to the end users. It's true, Paul, because my thought was maybe we could combine sandhill water infrastructure with what we need to do on crystal drive. But honestly, right now we're waiting for the $2.8 million financing because depending how much of that we get forgiveness for or we get the galvanized, the lead replacement, it's that number still in flux. And it pairs that nobody on sandhill wants to go to gravel. So right now and drive on gravel for a while. So hopefully we could get some hot mix and at least get the road patched. And these are all the challenges that, I'll say we, the administration's been dealing with over the last couple of years is there was so many, I mean, the waterline, for instance, it was so many years that the waterline should have been replaced over decades, not have to do it all at once. And now we're just, for those of who was just on the other call, we were just talking about literally a heat oil tank that was put in the ground as a culvert back in the early 80s. So all the things that were a small town and we obviously can't fix everything in one year. And we know that we're trying our best to get back on a good cycle of our infrastructure, but at the same time making it affordable so people, you know, can keep moving. So I think the best thing that we can do right now, and I can work with Terese, because I have a lot of construction knowledge and work with Tim on getting an estimate to do the water and stormwater upgrades. So once we figure out what that cost is, then I think we can better sue, you know, when can we do that work? Can we do it? Because chances are the water and stormwater work that we would do on Sandhill will come a hundred percent out of the Bethel budget. It probably won't be any grant money with it. And then we would hope to get like a paving grant to, you know, what they would call reclaim and pave the road. Yeah, I did meet with VTrans last week and they still haven't given out their paving grant money. And because of COVID, I guess trying to figure out how the whole thing is going to shake out. So usually what happens with, you know, the paving grant as we apply for it, I think it comes out in late fall or January and then it's, you know, for the next year. So for the next fiscal year, but and I'm not sure how that's going to shake out with COVID if they're going to not do paving grants. I'm not really sure. He didn't know the answer. He was, you know, just a worker. He was, he's not one of the worker bees. He wasn't higher up higher up in VTrans. So, but anyway, so, you know, bottom line is we're sorry, your road stinks. We know that. And, you know, so I have spoken Allen, like I said, and he did tell me the other day that he had no compactor so that if when they make some patches, some fixes with the hot mix, it's not going to be cold patch that you're driving off from and it doesn't last. So, you know, the easy button would be just take it to dirt and pay that because that's what it really needs. But what it else needs is the things we can't see, which is, you know, as a town, if we're going to go spend, I don't know, just, you know, say $150,000 to take it to dirt and repay that. We, you know, we want to see, you know, 15 years of life at that road rather than the worst thing would be to take it to dirt, pave it, you know, so everybody that's traveling their vehicles is happy. But let's say two years down the road, now we got to start ripping it up to put water and storm water and we patch it all together and then it just falls apart again. No, I understand that and I understand and appreciate the difficulty you have with trying to juggle tax money for all these repairs and such. I just want to go on record of saying, I don't think Christian Hill needs probably anything right now compared to Sand Hill Road. It's, I was driving when, it's a lovely road. It's, you know, so I just come down that road in the winter. Two against one, Janine. I can see Moe and Dave. They're just, Yeah, well, come, I like to see Christian Hill to dirt because the damn fools would drive slower. We've got a bunch of fools that are driving around here 50 miles an hour. Well, they do on Sand Hill too. They ought to drive up your road 50 miles an hour. They do. They do. So we'll get, so we do it as a challenge here because boy, I'll tell you. Anyway, we definitely have some challenges and I, I guess what I'd like to do with Teresa's, is maybe we can keep this Sand Hill Road slash Christian Hill. Keep that on as an agenda item that we'll push forward. Yeah, I just made a note to put on the next year. Yeah, I just put a note to put on the next agenda, Chris, to discussion of the Capitol Road Fund. So that way we could talk about options for Christian Hill and options for that. I can get Tim to give me, try to give me an estimate on what's in the ground, but Sand Hill for water. So I think we need to have some conversations about our Capitol Road Fund. The plan I put forward in your packet this week was just me putting out the numbers I had. So I know, I know before we ran into COVID-19, you know, our year basically as a board, well, seeing through the water master plan that's going on right now. But also we had talked about two things. One was to revisit our highway rehabilitation program. And the other one was to talk about some of our Capitol Improvement building, building's fun, you know, be like a new, a new town, garage, environment, you know, so those are kind of the big things that we really, you know, we got a little sideline here over the last couple of months. But I would like to see between now and budget season, we'll, we'll get on top of the updating our highway improvement fund as well as our Capitol structures. So, but we appreciate your time and if you want to just, if you want to keep in touch with, with Therese on how we're going on that or if you see it on the, feel free to pop on and. Okay. Yeah, I'll let you know once we get a little further, I'll definitely let you guys know, keep you in the loop. I would appreciate it. I heard about your Sand Hill gang. So if I tell Janine, she'll tell everybody, right? Thank you. All right. Have a good night. Thank you. All right. Thank you, everybody. Appreciate it. What's next? Oh, a band concerts are next, Stan. Okay. All right. We're still a little behind there, John. We appreciate you being patient. We're a little behind tonight, but we had a first time in a while that we've kind of packed an agenda. So, so we kind of, let's see, we'll get the board caught up to. Yeah. Talk about the band, yeah, the band concert a little bit. So obviously the governor, I, you know, I make the agendas on Thursday. So by the time the agenda and the town managers report comes out, the governor has a news conference Friday and it's all bets are off. So right now, the governor is saying you can have up to 150 people, one person per 100 square feet. So for outdoor venues, and John said the max you had, John was what, 100, 125? Yeah. So, you know, we typically average about 75 to 100 people because a lot of the shows around Vermont and around our area are canceled. That might go up a little bit. I don't think we're going to, you know, we'd exceed 150 people at that bandshell area. I think, you know, I think it'll be under that most likely. So yeah, that's kind of where we are. So John did say that he would be willing to, you know, put out signs reminding people to social distance, wear a mask. And Chris Jarvis and I spoke earlier, we certainly could, I could create a flyer and we could create a poster and get it laminated at Spalding Press or something to say that, you know, due to the governor's order that, you know, to kind of let people know they need to social distance and they can attend or not. And that sort of thing. So. Right. That's exactly what my, some of my comments for tonight's meeting we're going to be about, you know, what kind of signage do you want up there? Let me know. I mean, I can facilitate the sign or you guys can, whatever works for you is fine. Just let me know kind of what kind of information you want on there. And like I told you before, you know, obviously we had a port-a-let there, and I think at Peavine, but they all, we didn't have put any out this year due to COVID. You just have to, I don't know, the staff to clean them as much as they need to be clean for CDC requirements. So, but I mean, how long do your concerts usually last, John? It's a two, the shows are two hours. They go from seven until nine. Oh, okay. So. So that should be fine. I mean, I think people are getting used to that. They don't, they're not putting trash cans out at the golf course either. So I think. Oh, really? Yeah. So I think they've taken the ball washers out too, which is kind of funny. So, you know, I think people are getting used to, you know, to those types of things. So I don't think not having the port-a-let there. I mean, we, the garbage cans were removed a few years ago. And so if you, whatever you bring in, you bring out anyway. So I think, I think that's all probably what people expect anyway. So that, that should be fine. I mean, I, I guess some of the comments I had was, well, one, I talked to John and Trees both about, you know, definitely we need to have some sort of signage there. And I think the signage should be two part, you know, one part should be just basically saying that, you know, you're coming at your own risk. And I think the other part should, should include some of the, well, the most up-to-date requirements are by the state of Vermont. So, you know, saying that, you know, face coverings are recommended, but, you know, you know, those types of things, social distancing of six feet or more, you know, and it probably doesn't hurt to have things in there about, you know, trash in, trash out. You know, there won't be a public restroom. Just some of those reminders. And then, and then I talked to, you know, both of them today, but, you know, I was able to take a little road trip this weekend with my daughters to Maine and just to see what they're doing in, you know, Taurusville. And it's kind of neat, you know, they really, you know, there's a lot of, you know, especially over Maine, they're really thinking outside the box. So, there's a lot of, you know, even though, you know, some things inside are canceled or done differently, there's, there's opportunities to do other things, you know, like thrown out there about maybe, you know, a couple of our local businesses maybe being a part of up there at the, you know, series. I know there's, you know, maybe you could potentially have Babes Bar do something up there on Wednesdays or maybe, you know, one of the eateries or, or whatnot. So there's, there's some good opportunities for maybe to get some of the store owners downtown that maybe struggle a little bit, an opportunity to get in front of people too. Yeah, absolutely. And I've always opened that up. I mean, most, most of the businesses in Bethel support, support the shows and they do donate and they all have opportunities to come up. And, you know, I've been talking to Babes a little bit. So that might be an opportunity for them to come up. And of course, Cockatoodle Pizza, you know, I've had, I've had some agreements with them in the past. So it might be an opportunity for them to kind of, they're probably just as busy as ever, but it might be, it might be good for, for those businesses. But yeah, so it's, I mean, this is, this is a town event. These are free concerts. I've, I've fundraised for all of them already. So they're, they're paid for at this point. And I have nine shows and, you know, getting, getting a lot of, a lot of positive feedback, a lot of people in the community and a lot of other people surprised and happy that we're going to, we're going to continue this where a lot of others have just cancelled for the season already. So yeah, I appreciate everything that the town and the board has done for us, obviously. And, and yeah, and Therese, we can, we can talk outside of this about what you want on the signs and I'll get those done and we'll get them up. And we're going to have a fun year this year. It's going to go really well. Do you have a relationship at all with the sandwich shop with Dave and down there, Dave Sambor. So he might be someone supported me in the past. Yeah, all those guys. So, you know, I, I like having the idea of my sponsors coming up and especially the restaurants and, you know, offering or, you know, I've done coupons with cockadoodle or whatever they want to do. So I'm open to working something out, you know, especially in this, in this type of environment we're in, you know, the more we can do things like that, I think the better. So yeah, I can definitely. The only thing I will say about babes is, is Bethel does have an open container law and I think the current policy says no alcohol at the park, but obviously if they were going to do something there, they would have to get, you know, work through DLC department liquor control for the appropriate permit. So they would just have to make sure that they got the permit in front of the select board in time. We won't hold a special meeting just for liquor control permits. So they would have to make sure they were aware of that. So, so that becomes, you know, a little bit more involved. No, that's good to know. You know, like I'm talking to these guys, that would, that was something I wanted to talk to you about if we were going to progress down that route anyway. So, so that's good to know. So I'll, you know, as I talk to them, I'll let them know kind of what the procedure is and to get in touch with you. Yeah, they, they would, they, with liquor control, there's a couple different permit options that they can get. It would just be if the select board would have to be willing to allow alcohol at the park, which currently is not their policy. So it would just have to come in front of the board before it was a gun deal or could be advertised. And then you know the rules. Park in, park out. Last year, Stacey Barkham, you know, had his hot dog set up there in the white church. I think experimented a little bit with trying to have some food there too at one point. So we'd have to take a look at all that and how that feathered in. Right. I think, you know what, certainly what John is looking for is somebody maybe who's already a sponsor or someone, if they're going to come, he wants to have some sort of relationship with maybe they can make a donation of proceeds or whatever. So that was a complicated situation because Bethel doesn't have an itinerant vendor policy. So, you know, right. So there was some issues there, but, but you're right. There's seem, there's options out there for things to do. One thing I just want to make sure, and I don't know how we do it. Maybe it's getting word out on Facebook and stuff when we get the concert series going again. But as we just really got it, we can't park cars on the sidewalk. So and for the Black Lives Matter event, I would say a majority of the vehicles that parked on the church street weren't on the curb or the sidewalk. So that was pretty good. So I mean, there's definitely a way to do it. It makes it a little narrower traveling through there. But as we saw, you know, we had a piece of sidewalk that got damaged there from something large parked on it. So the best that we can keep cars off the sidewalk, if that's maybe even John, you know, seeking some alternative parking areas that that might be talking to whatever the rec committee or the school or, you know, places where people could park or that isn't too far away. Well, they can park behind the Catholic Church, right? So there's the Catholic Church, White Church, and then the rec area, people could park down there and walk up, of course. Just trying to keep them off the sidewalks. Plus, you know, plus when someone's parked on the sidewalk and let's say there's somebody that's, you know, handicapped or, you know, you're obstructing the sidewalk. And, you know, so just my only observation over the years, anything we've ever done at the band shell, regardless of if it's Ford Festival or concert series, everybody parks on the sidewalks. Somehow we can get them not to park on the sidewalks. That would be great. And then I would just say as we get going, because I'm sure that policies will change through the governor. It goes, you know, it continues to go in the right direction. But let's say if it comes back again, or there's restraint, so we just got to make sure that we're following, following protocols laid out by the governor. And, you know, if we have to make any adjustments, I guess we could at that time. I personally think it's an awesome, you know, if you look at everything that's been canceled, or, or maybe isn't canceled, that is canceled. Think about how many, you know, you're at home and it's nice out. What are you going to go do? You know, I mean, there's so many, so many people looking to go do something and, you know, get some of their mental health back again. And, you know, to listen to some music on the concert on the screen would be great. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, great. Does anybody have any other questions of me? I do. Sure. Curious. I was going to look up some information about the Bethel Council on the Arts, and I could not find any link from the Bethel Town website. I thought that would be a place where the Bethel Council on the Arts should be able to find, be found from. Yeah. I supply my lineup to Kelly Hill every year, and it's usually right on the town website. Yeah, I think it was, do you have a Facebook page, Sean? Yeah, we also have a Facebook page. Yeah, I'll look, Dave, because I know she got it the other day and she was putting it out on our Facebook page, so I'll see if it's on our website. I don't know, but I'll make a note. Do you have a website, Sean? No website. We just, just, no website, just Facebook. Okay, so there's no link to connect. So I'll, I think you can get to their Facebook page from ours, Dave, but he doesn't have a website. Okay. I'll ask Kelly, I don't know how you make a Facebook link. I don't do Facebook, so I don't know how it works. So I will ask Kyle, I don't know that information. Yeah, exactly. I know. I'll ask Kelly, Dave, to see if we can make a Facebook link to Bethel Council on Arts from our website. I think that would be a good thing for new people, especially they come to Bethel, what's going on? Sure. And I'll, and again, I'll be utilizing the, the sign downtown. I'll be putting the shows up there, you know, generally the week before they come out. So it'll be there as well. But yeah, it's on Facebook. It's pretty, the post is pretty popular. We got it. We got more hits probably announcing that we were doing the shows this year. And that's where I'm getting a lot of comments about people happy to see it going on. So yeah, I wasn't making a bad comment. I think you've done a great job. But I just, like they said, that it was one place I expected to be able to find what was going on. And I couldn't. Okay. No, I hear you. Yeah, I'll make sure that happens tomorrow, Dave. I, I didn't realize it hadn't. So I'll make sure that happens tomorrow. Do we think that might be a concern given the fact that all these other cancellations have happened that that number of 150 may be exceeded? Well, the more we advertise it, it could be. Do we walk a line, a fine line? I'm probably horrible for saying this, but we'll just, everybody, it's over one pick. You'll have to say they're there for a protest. Apparently the numbers don't count when you get up there on a protest. Sorry, but I had to say it anyway. No, I mean, I guess, you know, whatever the protocol is, is that something, you know, do I have to specifically keep track and make sure there's not more than 150 people in that area? Is that is that the requirement? I mean, I think it's going to be hard. I think, I mean, even if you were to stake it off and survey tape it and stand there with a counter and click every person who came in, people are going to walk over the tape. I think it's going to be hard. I think you're going to have to kind of eyeball it. And I think if we have signs up that say, you know, the max is 150 and I feel like that's, I don't really know what you have here for options. It's going to be tough. It's hard. It's not like you have a gate in and a gate out. Right. Right. It's outside and it kind of spreads around and then people end up, you know, going over in the church parking lot. Exactly. I think, you know, as long as you have the band making announcements periodically, maybe just, you know, reiterating what the rules are at the time, whether it's one person per hundred square feet, you know, max, you know, whatever, you know, I think if you just have the bands making announcements to remind people to wear face coverings, to social distance, I think at this point people have gotten pretty well versed at it. Right. Right. I agree. Okay. Lindley, what do you think about that, about how to keep track of who's there? Yeah. I mean, I think your idea of just having regular, regular announcements and reminders is good. If there was a moment where, you know, like, say, John, you're looking around, you're like, man, this is definitely over 150 and it's starting to look like people are crowded closer together than you're comfortable with. Just maybe give that reminder of, hey, you know, we're only able to hold these because we're holding to that 150. Maybe some people are willing to kind of disperse a little. You can still hear the music. I mean, I often listen from my house because I can hear it just as good as if I'm up at the band shell. Why go up there when I can sit at home? You know, so I think if you give people that reminder of we're doing this in good faith that you're all participating, maybe that family that lives close enough by says, oh, you know, we could just, we could listen from home or we can listen from across the street and kind of get everybody's buy-in in that way. If we want to keep holding these, but it takes all of us working together on it, I think people are pretty good. I mean, I don't think people want this to be canceled on that. No, that's reasonable. That's perfectly reasonable. And I think as long as you're reasonable with people, that's the way it's going to be. I think it was easier. Now, once before when it was 25 people or 50, that was a whole other ballgame. So I think this may be easier to enforce and basically going to have to see how it goes. If you, you know, go by and there's 200 people there, then we're going to have to talk about the next one. Yeah, no, I get it. Okay. But I think that's great. So yeah, so just so we'll talk at some point about what you want to see on the sign and we'll go from there. Yeah, that sounds good. Thank you for doing it, John. We really appreciate it. Thanks for having me and we'll see you at the shows hopefully. Thanks. Great service to the community. Yeah. So it looks like maybe Chris had to go deal with his dog. So it says the next thing is Bethel Royalton Transfer Stations Request to Use Property for Hazardous Waste Day on July 18, 2020. It looks like apparently that's something we were supposed to be doing the whole time. Moe could answer, is that true Moe? You were supposed to have been doing this all along, but you weren't. Can I just interrupt for a quick second for public comment? Yeah. Chris reminded me of it when he talked about parking on the sidewalk, that the traffic signs also sit right on the sidewalk. Okay. We're going to have anybody who's using a wheelchair or a walker going uptown, they're not going to be able to get around there. So we're on Church Street. It's up on Church Street and there's one by the hardware store that they or it was sitting on the sidewalk anyway. What sort of sign? It's for the construction. The one that sits across the White Church, it's a huge orange sign. It just completely blocks the entire sidewalk. Oh, okay. All right. So I don't know if there's another option for it, like at least in the evenings or something, but okay. I can find out. I know that sometime, depending on the signs, there are some places where, you know, if they're closing the sidewalk, then that sign is on there. But if it's the bigger one, I'll ask Tim Mills about it. Okay. Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead. I got a text message from Chris. He said, I got booted off trying to log back in. But Mo is speaking about the hazardous waste thing. Right. Seeing how the transfer station is just a business that's on the property, this owned by both Bethel and Royalton, the insurance company wants the landowner's permission to hold this event so that it's supposed to been done for forever. But I don't know what happened on previous administrators, what they did. So I mean, we did okay this a little while ago, but our events got canceled because of COVID. So just to re-infer. Is that enough answer for what you want? I think it was great. So that makes sense. So the Royalton Board has to sign one too. So yeah. So I just put a note in here since because of COVID or whatever, it's kind of a pain. But we just said, so I guess if someone is willing to make a motion to authorize me to sign it, that'd be great. So move. Second. All in favor. All right. Oh, that was me fighting Paul for the second. Fighting maneuvers. All right. So the next thing on the agenda, Mascoma Bank tax anticipation. No, obviously, we're putting that off because of the lawyer. So we'd already, I'd said that the next one is Sullivan empowers engagement letter for FY ending June 30, 2020. That's something that you sign every year, basically just saying we're hiring. They were here today. Rick and Jordan, they usually come in June before we close just to kind of look and make sure there's the the fund balances match the audit of last year that do a preliminary tax assessment, you know, to see how we are with taxes, just kind of go through some general stuff. And they were there today. A dollar figure in here somewhere. Not in there. I don't think it's in their engagement letter. I think that has been in their past contract and we awarded to them in the past. But let me just double check. Can we lock in a three year consistent? Yeah. The same as what it was last year. Yeah. So the only or it went up a little bit each year, but I think it was a three year thing. But the only thing is this year, we may have to have a single audit, which we did not budget for because we just weren't sure, which is we received the federal money from the AFG grant for the firefighters. And then of course, federal highway money for redoing Camp Brook and then FEMA. But Rick and I were talking about it today. And if I can stay of expenses under the $750,000 expenditure line, then we won't need one. So we'll figure that out. As I was hoping that FEMA might pay for the audit if we needed it, the single audit, excuse me, if we needed it, but we don't. Rick said I've never had to have a single audit. He said it's a whole bunch of compliance and big hoops to jump through, etc. So hopefully we won't need that, but we'll certainly let you know. Yeah, just stay under it. Just don't spend that kind of money and we're good to go, right? Well, it actually is there. There's a section that says fee arrangements. And it's the fee is $22,100. Yeah. The books are closed and reconciled. Perfect. It's completed. Yes, I knew it went up each year. I just I couldn't remember what it said in there. So but that's something you sign every year. And you guys will actually, I'll put it on a clipboard. You'll have to come in and sign it. This isn't one where I can sign it. So the engagement letter. So, Chris, we did the transfer station. We kept going while you were coming back on. I would hope so. Yeah. I'm sitting there and it just kept freezing and freezing. And it would dial back in and then it would freeze. And I'm like, what is going on? Mine keeps sending me this message. Your internet connection is the same thing tonight. Typically have the best internet in the town, but apparently not tonight. That's the so, so the engagement letter. Yeah. So you'd have to come in and sign it tomorrow. But yeah, I mean, you still have to make a motion approved, but you have to put John Henry's on it tomorrow. Motion to approve. So we're at the June 30, 2019 audit discussion. And that came and I, and as I said in the pack, it came during COVID and it was in a box and I totally forgot about that I had it. And then I thought I held it for another week because I thought we were going to meet in person. Sometimes it's just easier, but obviously we weren't and we're moving into the next fiscal year. So I sent it to you. Normally, you know, you get the bound copies. If someone wants one, I have several in my office, but in this case, I just had her scan it or I scanned it to Kelly and had her send it to you. So I don't know if you have any specific questions or if there's anything in depth that you don't want to cover tonight. You can always call me or email me or something. And what is that the budget review at 91% that that stuff or nope, it was the actual audit. The um, I don't see an audience say Sullivan and Powers on top. Let me see it. Oh, here, sorry. I'm like holding it in somewhere else. It looked like sorry. It said right in the front town audit. It says right here town of Bethel, Vermont audit report, June 30, 2019. Did you guys not get this? I don't see that. I didn't get that in the packet. Somebody had sent me an email. Yeah. Did Kelly send because I thought she was going to say she was supposed to send it as an attachment to your email. Uh, no, okay. Yeah, it was about a week and a half. It is. Yes. So it is. You're right. No, it is. It's long. So so you got it. Did you get it via email more or was it an attachment? That's my email. Yeah. Right here. Okay. I got it. But Dave, Paul, Lindley, no. Okay. I don't know what happened. There was two attachments to that email. Well, one of them was the agenda and one of them was the actual select pod packet. Yeah. I'm looking it up right now. The only thing I have from Kelly in the last couple weeks is this agenda and where was it for you, Moe? So she attached it to your email, Moe, but not anybody else's. Did you have three attachments? There was two attachments on my email. Okay. I don't know. I'm sorry. I'm looking in my now. I don't see it. Okay. Well, no big deal. I will send it to you and then I'll resend it. I don't know what happened. I'm sorry. I won't bring it again. Well, no. That's okay. All right. I'll resend it to Paul, Lindley, and Dave. And if you guys have any questions, you can let me know. I can certainly hit the highlights for you. So it was a rough audit last year. It's been a couple rough audits since I came, frankly. But this year, knock on wood, Rick, they left an hour early. I said, are you sick of it? You just, you can't take it anymore or what? And he goes, no, actually, it's great. He's like, I'm really happy. So last year, one of the good things was obviously, I think I made that note in your report, in the town manager's report, that we had a fund balance. And a lot of it was because we refinanced that short term debt to a long term position, which was what we needed to do a while ago. Let me see what else I said in there. Okay. So, yeah, so that was good. The water funds net position increased. The sewer fund went down by 12,000. But part of that was in timing because of the way we had to haul sludge and the availability of our vendor. But overall, I thought it was good. You know, obviously, at the end of the audit, there's always, you know, things to do better. We were off last year on our taxes, and I couldn't find it. I met with Louise. I looked. I talked to Nemrick. I did a bunch of stuff and I could not find it. And, you know, Louise said, look, my mom was dying. Then she died. And, you know, maybe there was something that just didn't translate from the grand list over. But I certainly spent a bunch of time looking for it. But overall, you know, we seem to have, we made some ground. I think some of it shows our collection efforts are working because we, you know, you saw some money coming up in water and some in sewer. Deetree, I'm training her right now. So she's starting to do collections, which is going to be really good. You know, I think, you know, the governor's order said we couldn't shut people's water off for lack of payment. So I'm not sure how that's going to hurt us or tax sale. But we're certainly working with people to get payment arrangements and trying to work that out. So I've been training her on how to do that. So, you know, it was a, it was a rough, not as bad as the prior year, audit, but they have never been fun since I started. But this year, so far, so good. I'm very excited about that. Rick was happy today. And, you know, I like them. I think that they're very good at what they do. You jump through a lot of hoops. I know some towns that stopped using Sullivan Empowers because they felt that they, you know, were needed too much information. And that kind of made me balk. I think that it's a good thing. They need to put us through our paces and make sure we're doing things correctly. So I will keep you informed about the status of the single audit. If that is something we're going to have to do, it's something we did not budget for. But Rick spoke to me a little bit about it today. So I'm hoping that if we can stay under that $750,000 expenditure threshold of federal money, then, then we won't need one. So because if we do, it's going to be, I don't want to say seven to 10 grand, maybe. So we'll see, but it is what it is. Like, you know, we can't control it. And I did try to get FEMA and federal highways to pay for it, but they said no. So I'll resend the audit. And then if you have any questions or concerns, just email me, call me, whatever, and we'll work it out. Is that all right? Yes. Yep. All right, Chris. And I guess you're we're right back to you with the town manager. Oh, geez. All right, let me look now. I wonder what I said, which I think we've pretty much gone over most of that. So, um, yeah, so, okay, in your packet, you saw that I put in there the information that I sent to SNS auto and Robert Tracy. So that was a packet that I sent them. I didn't give you the blank copy of the zoning, zoning application, but that was also included in their packet. I've seen some change over there. Mo, did you end up driving by? Yeah, I didn't. I noticed today that they're right back where they were before over by the the sewage manhole there. Are they? Yes, they are. Dang, I had gone by on Sunday. Yeah, I had gone by on Sunday and after, and they had started cleaning stuff up, I saw a truck there picking up tires and I was optimistic, I guess, too much. In the information you mentioned about an area that was highlighted on their information to show the easement area that we wanted to keep open. And I don't see that on the material I had here. I've got a, because I didn't, the highlight just because it went black and white, it didn't go color. There's a sketch in here. I guess it's from their original submission to the DRB. So is the, the area is right around the pump station, right? Is that the easement area? Yeah. 25 by 25. That's not a sketch they submitted. That's, that was actually sheet 28 to 32. That was actually off the plans. I think that maybe Du Bois and King or actual engineer had done. Oh, okay. But yeah, so theirs was highlighted. Yours wasn't just because it's black and white, but it's really that 30 feet that you see, you know, when you pull into their driveway, when you see the 30 feet, that's really what we're looking for for them today. Du Bois and King's easement was bigger, wasn't it? Well, it is. Because we're just really looking, the whole easement is 90 by 25. But we're really just looking for that 30 feet piece right there, because that's where we'll access it. But anyways, I've given them 15 days from the date of the letter, I think. And so I guess I will have to, let me see what the date of the number was. I'll have to follow up with them. But that was the big, I know we'd had a lot of questions about that. So I think the 24th maybe is our 15 days. So we'll see what we hear from them. But if not, I'll go make another visit. The two things that came to mind after reading the permit was, well, one, they had mentioned that if it does well that they would have, you know, anywhere between eight and 12 vehicles on site. Right. And then there was something about that only vehicles that are prepped and ready to sell will be out front or on the sides of the building. And all other vehicles, use of parts, et cetera, be kept in the rear of the building, which I don't think that that's the way it currently is set up. But I don't think so either. And hence the letter. I mean, there was several issues, the well had protection, the too many cars. The zoning permit application sketch that they submitted in the beginning has no parking in the front of the building, customer park, and just a few cars, maybe on one side. And then the other cars along the other edge of the north side of the building. Right. And that's that. Yeah. So this is, you know, I've been trying to do this for everyone that the Listers maybe bring by or we find out about for possible zoning violations. I feel like you kind of get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. So I've been making sending, sending letters originally out like this, basically saying here's the problem, here's how you can correct it. And so far everybody has. So they have a couple more days. And if I don't hear from them, I will reach out to obviously Mr. Tracy because he's the one who owns the property. I did go over and I met with Mr. Tracy's son who just happened to be there when I was outside. I spoke to Rob, Tracy. And so this was kind of our first ditch effort at it. You know, before you go with a whole notice of violation and put it in the land records or if you need to go to environmental court to do enforcement, it just becomes a costless money. So if we can figure out the fix and take care of it ourselves without going that avenue, then. And I would say as long as things are moving ahead in a positive way that we should do our best to accommodate them getting it to the permit size. Right. I mean, we don't want to be anti longer, whatever. But yeah, I'm certainly not anti business nor what I want. You know, we want to be able to give them the brakes. They also know what the permit says because they were the ones who testified and signed up on it. So, you know, just to happen, you haven't had any enforcement zoning enforcement. So now that we're doing that, people are surprised. So a long time coming. Yeah, so we'll see how that goes. The rest of the stuff was equipment, equipment committee, you know, a set of meeting for them, the ditching beds are due planning commission. I had my first planning commission meeting last week. So, you know, we're just kind of starting down that road to for for the town plan. Well, what I want to do is as soon as I get it, excuse me, in a draft, I'm going to send it to you guys so you can start reading it because it's a obviously a sizable document. So once you have a public hearing when you have one, if you make any substantial changes, you're going to have to have another one. So hopefully, my guess is this, the planning commission has done their due diligence and you may have some minor edits or changes, but hopefully nothing major and it'll just move right along quickly. So we'll get access to the zoom link for that 715 meeting. Yep, I haven't said it. Yeah, we haven't, Sarah hasn't even set it up yet. So for July, but yeah, that's that's kind of their informal meeting. They're trying to do that before they hold their public meeting, public hearing meeting, excuse me. So, but like I said, she's putting the finishing touches on and then it'll come out as a draft and we'll send it to you guys so you can start reading. I don't know, some, let's see, a lot of other stuff going on, I guess, but still some COVID obviously, but thank goodness that's slowing down. I think that's it unless you guys have any specific questions about something. And everybody saw the water line project updates there that was in there? No, we get any photographs to put into, you know, when these holes are opened up? Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Yep, yep, we'll have, we're gonna have photographs as well as obviously we'll have as built drawings and we'll, we're incorporating into those drawings what's in the ground, but yes, we're gonna have a lot of photographs so we're not, we won't be on this phishing, whoever takes over the system and they had to repair in 20 years is not going to be on the same phishing expedition we are. Right, everything's being GPS too? I would assume so, I'll have to ask, but I think so because I feel like they said something about that at one of our meetings, Moe, but I'll double check for you. Yeah, because, you know, the shutoffs are the big thing, you know, if they're GPS and then there's no question where they are. Yeah, I think that they usually come through and do that at the, you know, and do that once the final valves are all in the engineers, but I'll double check. Has there been any major changes or updates to the project that we're not aware of? You know, we had to do some stormwater work and that's in there. Basically, what's in the ground now is that old clay tile, which, you know, you just blow hard on it and it's crumbling. So in a couple locations, we've just, you know, cut it and then laid the new plastic pipe and they, it was like 30 bucks a foot. It was a good deal to do it. So it was in the same trench. So we're able to do that. They gave us a good price because it speeds them up versus chopping to try to patch that stuff, which, you know, Chris is a pain. So they also just took a look at livery stable too, about doing that. So which would also, we work with the engineer, that's going to be incorporated in our loan package with some of the forgiveness that's applicable. I did get an email from, if in there is from Wayne Elliott the other day, he told me that the state, how one of their funds has extra money, quote, unquote, I don't have to love that. Must be a federal program that they didn't, you know, spend all the money in. So Wayne was trying to go to bat for Bethel to see if he could secure us some additional financing. He said that I might, you know, have to write a letter or write a letter or do a jig. I don't, whatever, you know, so he said, he'd let me know what, if that's going to commend it, but how they have extra money, I don't want to know, but as long as it comes to Bethel, I don't care. So anyways, so yeah, this is going along. They've hit ledge a couple times. If you've gone by, you've seen, they've had the hammer there to deal with that. The water drains there that I brought to your attention there, that Yeah, that one, I did talk to Tim and, you know, they're going to, he's going to clean it out, but probably not now because they're headed in that direction anyways, and it's just going to get filled in with more stuff. So, but we did, I did talk to him about, about getting it cleaned out, but it's just not going to be right now, Chris, because they're headed that way, and it's just going to be more road construction and more debris, but, but he was, he knew that one was plugged. So, but thanks for the location. Plugger it to the top. Yes, that's what he said. Okay. So I, they were talking about a change order, but they were hashing it out. I haven't seen it yet, so I can't, you know, I told you, I'd keep you updated on any change orders we meet again in July. So the surface by then I will let you know what the details are. All righty. And select board meeting minutes from the 8th of June. Anybody have any questions with those? Are we good to approve those as noted? That'll look good. Consider on all the activity we had that night. Well, Lisa sent it to me and she said, I took a whole bunch of notes here just put in. So it was, I was like, Oh boy, yeah. So we kind of edited some user word discussion and there were some numbers we had to look up and but she did a great job. I started writing them down here. I might notebook. I'm like, Oh my God, I'm like, forget it. The lady was great, but she's spitting off numbers like nobody's business. I couldn't keep up with her. You talk fast. Yeah. Have you had any follow-ups from anybody it was on the call trees? Any of the businesses or presentives on any loose ends that didn't get covered or? Nope. Okay. I know I heard some positive feedback from individuals that were on the call. Oh, that's good. So that was, I'm glad. I mean, I thought it was nice. It was a lot of really good information and I felt like, you know, it's not often that your senators and representatives are so accessible. So it was nice. I can emotionally accept the minutes as written. Okay. All in favor. All right. And I lost my spot here. Let's see here. Looks good. You got a bunch of committee minutes. That's kind of. Yeah, there was a lot of committee minutes in there. The committee was in there and the rec committee and everybody have a chance to read through all that. Oh, that reminds me, Chris, the skate park. I was trying to block it out. So they think he was the guy, Michael Parker was gonna, he talked about pouring it this week. And then when I talked to Richard, who had talked to Michael, he was just going to do a couple of the ends and then maybe pull off the job and not be back to August because of something changed. So Richard was going over, I had the auditors so I couldn't, I'm going to go tomorrow and see if he's around, but Richard was going to remind him, you know, you're still in charge of that site. So you better stake it off and put up the appropriate, you know, signage or whatever, at least caution tape because if he's going to be gone for a while, but that wasn't what we talked about. He had told me at an opening and he was going to get it done last I knew, but now, so I'm going to try to run over and see him tomorrow. With the auditors there, I didn't get to it today. I mean, I would recommend that if he's going to leave the site for any period of time that he put up the barrier fence, the yellow, sorry, the orange barrier fence that he now, but if he, yeah, he should probably, you know, circle the project with that that way, you know, whatever, little kids or somebody can't get on it, play with it because there could be a safety issue, but at the other end it could be someone could damage his work, you know, so. Exactly. That's what I said to Richard. I said, you know, you better let him know he's still, that's still his site and whether he's not there or not, if there's an issue, a safety issue, it's still him. So I'm going to try to go over tomorrow because, and if he's gone, pulled out all, well, talk to Richard, if he's pulled that already, I'll call him, but the last time I talked to him, that was not the plan, so. I did make, I did tell Ellie, when I was over there with Brady there last week, there was just a lot of dog droppings everywhere, so. We have tried, Deetree, we have had signs up and Deetree talked to people and, but yeah. Because it was just a lot of it. So which, which I, and I walk over there often and I don't usually see it the way it is right now, so. What did you say to Ellie? I just mentioned it to her passing when I saw her coming back from the protesting her and I just chatted for a minute and I told her that I was down there with Brady and he went out trying to play ball, but he was more interested in smelling poop than he was so he found all the, all the areas so. I will see, have, see if we can put up some additional signage. I mean, you know, there's signage there and last year, you know, when, when the pool was open, Deetree was talking to people and they would be offended, but. Well, I guess I had wondered if maybe there was more of that activity over there because the facility is not being used, you know. Could be. So maybe when people, you know, when there's lots of people there all day, people are less likely to allow their dog to do that or maybe even bring their dog over there. So. I'll tell Richard too that, you know, he can certainly mention to people that we have a dog ordinance and it says you need to clean up after your dog. So if he's over there mowing because he's the one who's going to be cleaning it up. So I'll let him know he certainly has the ability to speak to people and let them know. I haven't noticed as much of it in the downtown or the village areas like it was a couple of months ago. That's good. That was all from melted snow or something. I don't know, but yeah, but it definitely congregated over at the wreck park now. So. Devil's advocate, do we need to put up one of those posts with the bags and the whatnot like Country Animal has out in the park a lot? Do they have a waste receptacle too or just the bags? No, they have the bags in as a bucket underneath where you can drop the bag. Well, I will tell I have had a bad experience with that. I in Bristol, we did that and I was all in favor of giving people a receptacle and because people were actually taking the bags that were provided and then throwing their bags of dog poop in people's flower gardens on their way home on the street, whatever. So we put in a receptacle and I had signs on it that said for pet waste only and it was the bane of my existence. If I could have operated a chainsaw or had an axe, I would have chopped it down because when it was 80 and it's overflowing with regular trash and dog poop and you're out there cleaning it up, I was livid. I finally called the road form and it was like, I don't care how you get a town, but go take it down. And people were mad, but they were, you know, it was awful. They were putting their regular trash in it because we had changed the parks to pack in, pack out and it was a nightmare. I'm not opposed to putting the bags out, but certainly the receptacle, no way. That was bad. Okay. Just because, you know, people were shoving their food trash in there, but if you want to have dog bags, that's certainly something we could look into. It's up to you. If you don't have the receptacle, people are just going to dump it. They'll just throw it in the woods. Yeah. So I mean, I think if you have a dog, you're, you know, as a responsible pet owner, you know, you take care of that. So for sure. All right. So on the rec committee minutes, Ellie made a mention about coin drops. Do we need to do anything additional now with the COVID regulations? I don't, if she, I don't even know if she actually scheduled one. She scheduled one. The others that we had have been canceled. I don't know. I'll have to ask, I'll have to look at the schedule. I don't remember if you guys approved one or not in the past for her. What are you doing about? Me either. I think it's just because she's trying to make up her $10,000. So I will. They haven't done one in the past, but I know she had talked about it at an earlier meeting over the, you know, any of the extra excavation, you know, they would have to pay for that before they could go bigger on the park. And I know she had brought up about maybe doing a coin drop at that time, but I don't think she ever did anything formal. No, it says right here in the minutes, it says our coin drop is scheduled for July 11th. So it must be, we approved one and I just didn't remember. I just couldn't remember. I remember you did a few like Boom Bang, you know, Rain of World, but it says right here, our coin drop is scheduled for July 11th. So I will double check and make sure that they went through the proper channels. Well, they have to socially distance and are there any special requirements, you know. Yeah, I don't know. She said the governor's press conference, he said that coin drops can happen safely. My guess is if it wasn't a hundred, they, you know, have masks on, but let me make a note to look at that because I feel like I had a conversation with her about where she was going to get her signage because of all the MUTCD standards and there's certain things they have to do legally for coin drops. So I will email with her and find out, make sure she's got all the signage. I think she, you know, her or somebody I talked to was going to borrow it from someone, but I'll see if we got an approved permit for it. So the only other thing I wanted to mention while we're all together is just to remind folks that next Monday night there's a meeting of the Bateman Board. I'm sure Pam will be sending out a reminder notice, but just let everybody just remind everybody that that's going to be happening at the Town Hall. So we're going to need to look at spacing everybody out and see how that dynamic works. Yeah, if you can all go, that would be great. What time is it? It's 8.40. No, I mean, what time is your Board of Abatement meeting? I don't know. I believe it's 6 o'clock or I'm not sure, 6 or 6.30. I think it's 6 o'clock, pretty sure. All right, but yeah, she'll be sending some now. So that's always great if the Board members can all go since you're all part of that. But maybe we can see how that works for possibly moving back over to the Town Hall for our swipe board. Yeah, certainly. We had a solid waste meeting there last two weeks ago. Oh, great. Yeah, 6 o'clock. Yeah, so that would be nice. It would be nice if we could go back to doing them in person. Well, there's a capacity of 300 people in that building. So if we could have a 50% capacity, that's 150 people in there. I don't think we'll see them all unless we do something really bad or really stupid. Let's give away for something. I mean, you won't even see that many people show up for Town Meeting Day. I know, sure enough. Do we have anything else to come before the Board tonight? Or are we good? I'm good. I'm good. All good. Move to adjourn. Okay, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Good night all. Did we approve the minutes? I don't think we approved the minutes. Oh, you just made a motion. Paul and Lindley made a motion. Did you vote? All in favor. You said all in favor. Oh, okay. I must be asleep. No, I don't like my video keeps cutting out. So I lose people. Yeah. Okay, thank you. All right, have a good evening. Bye. Thank you. Bye.