 Welcome to the Zell Informer Podcast. I am your host, Alfred Havex, joined today by the one and only Nathaniel, as always. How's it going, everyone? So today, there's really not a lot of news. In fact, there's really no news. The only thing that we could consider news was the official announcement from Nintendo of Japan talking about their Universal Studio plans, which are still very vague, but we hit on what we'd like to see last week. If you didn't give that podcast a listen, it went up pretty late because of a lot of technical difficulties, and there's only an audio version because of some video problems, but go check it out. This week, we finally hit a really long fan topic that we got a while back from Mythasaur Hunter. We got this back in September, September 21st, actually, and then he sent us another follow-up one. So I'm going to read this. This is really long, so stick with it, and then we'll talk about it and give our own opinions on what he said and our response to what he said. So starting off, I looked for the podcast email in the description and couldn't find it, so I tried the website, looking for the contact info. Unable to find it, I listened to several podcasts and only heard that there was an email address. Finally, an old podcast I found the address, so I tried Zeldinformerpodcast at gmail.com, which got me through to Adam, who obviously isn't with us anymore. Then at Facebook, Zeldinformer, if you're not hearing back from them for several days, I again asked if this was the right place to contact the podcast. They sent me this email, so shoot, I hope this is right, and this is the correct podcast. That was me. Because you're wondering. Yeah, it's podcast at zeldinformer.com, if you have any questions that you want to send. So recently, I was considering Breath of the Wild, and contemplating the classic callback to the Legend of Zelda with Link looking out over Hyrule from the mountaintop. It got me to thinking, I love the 2D Zelda games. The feel of these nostalgic games accomplishes something that the 3D games can't, just as the 3D games exhibit qualities that aren't possible in the 2D games. Then came to the realization, we've seen our last 2D Zelda game. The Minish Cap, preceded closely by Four Swords Adventure, is likely the last fully 2D Zelda game that we'll see tingle games notwithstanding. I'm sure there'll be tweaked iterations of the classics and virtual console releases, but as far as news 2D Zelda games go, we probably aren't going to get any more. This saddens me, but Zelda will continue to evolve with the gaming culture and grow from its humble roots. So the 2D games are a work of art just as much as the 3D games are, and ought to be looked out for inspiration as we continue to move on. Here then is the question. What things should Nintendo carry over from the 2D games as that world comes to a close? I've made a list of 10 things that I want to see make it into the 3D games to give you an idea of what I mean. It could be an interesting fan topic for the podcast. So here he's going to go through 10 things that Heath wants to see in later Nintendo games, and then I was thinking that Nate and I would talk about what he said, and then maybe even give us some of our own opinions about what we'd like to see in later Zelda games. So Honorable mentioned the shovel. This one doesn't count for two reasons. It was in Phantom Hourglass, which is a 3D-esque, and Skyward Sword had the digging mitts. The mitts were okay for Skyward Sword due to its more whimsical and less serious nature, but imagine Link using a shovel in Ocarina of Time or Twilight Princess. It just seems more visceral, doesn't it? Need some quick cash and a rare chance to obtain a Silver Rupee? Shovel. Followed a treasure map to the X? Shovel. Fishing and Need a Worm? Yeah. 10. Magnetic Gloves. Give it a chance to strip a sword from an enemy. Use it to push or pull metal items. Make them more awesome than the iron boots by letting Link traverse walls and ceilings with his grubby mitts, plus they look stylin'. And we actually have some form of magnetic gloves, don't we? In Breath of the Wild, Nate? Not gloves. It's a rune ability that you use through the Sheikah Slate that is basically a giant magnet. So we kind of have those in a way. I don't know if it can do all the things that he's saying. You can levitate with it. You can't connect your crawl on things with it, but you can do that in that one dungeon in Twilight Princess. Yeah. The Goron 9s. With the boots. Yeah, the iron boots. Number 9. Music from the Adventure of Link. The Adventure of Link. Skeletal rule-playing system, less fun side-scrolling platform gameplay, annoying unbalanced difficulty, and I'm going to get a lot of hate for it, but it's my opinion, and I respect anyone who can enjoy the game. But trapped behind the less favorable aspects of the game is the soundtrack unique among Zelda games. Being one of the few games that Koji Kondo did not score in many tracks, though not quite as inspired as Kondo's work, have a unique flair. The Adventure of Link could certainly use some love these days. I would love to hear a few cues from this game make it into future titles. Number 8. Subrosia. Most Zelda games have a sense of duality, second quest, alternate world, and Oracle of Seasons is no exception. Subrosia, however, is no second quest or even an alternate world. Subrosia was a totally different environment, connected to the world in which Link's adventure takes place. Subrosia is a high rule, what Solstonheim is to Skyrim, and like Solstonheim, Subrosia is very different in climate, temper, and feel from high rule. It also takes place on an island overcome by volcanoes and inhabited by tiny sentience. Skyrim's starting to look like a copycat, but I digest. I think he meant digress, but... He digested it. He digested it. It's the idea that I'm talking about. It doesn't actually have to be Subrosia. The important thing is that there's an entirely separate and foreign world to explore beneath the overworld. Subrosia has expanded the game without feeling like an excuse to add hours to the playtime. Subrosia also allowed for a veritable fast travel reward without resorting to a system of magic to get you from one place to another. Number 7, Seasons. Not that Link should be able to control the seasons again, but how about an actual progression? Breath of the Wild is the perfect opportunity. Even something as simple as a switch in the menu and all that I'm suggesting, that would be awesome. Remember how the seasons changed in the fishing pond in Twilight Princess? It looked beautiful, and distinct seasons add an ambience unattainable by games without it. The day and night cycle that started with Ocarina of Time was a good place to begin, and now it's time to drop rays, leaves, snow, and cherry blossoms. Number 6, Moosh, Ricky, and Dimitri. Another wonderful innovation for the 2D Zelda games also occurred in Oracle of Seasons. Added as more of puzzle aspects than vehicles, mobility, or the trio of independently exclusive companions. Now, I would love to traverse Hyrule atop a cripplingly cute blue flying bear, but to avoid sailing spotlight from Epona, they should probably be mostly useful for accessing several areas, the overworld, or as a part of certain puzzles. Instead of being two dimensional characters, however, as Epona has been pigeonholed, each can communicate with Link and has unique talents, stories, and options. Number 5, Races. Parashians and Pikori. I was happy to group these two together as we could go on and on about what races to bring into the next generation. Alright, no more Oracle things for now. For a bit, it's just that the games are so Richard style. Alright, one more thing from the Oracle games for now. This time it's the Parashians. The Skeletal Scala Wags sail a tunneling ship from place to place and apparently quite friendly to other races, making them the perfect candidates for a 3D makeover. Just like several of the previous ideas the Staffel and the Nintendo will bring itself... itself will bring these ideas to 3D as they were designed by Capcom, but it doesn't hurt to hope. Anyway, the picture 3D rendered Parashians either as a badass undead in a Twilight Princess-ish, realistic setting, or as a crew of roving, jolly specters in the realm of Wind Waker. And the other is the Pikori. This should be obvious of anything that Capcom created these cute little creatures probably have the best chance of making an appearance in a 3D game. Still not great chance, but the best chance, I think. Even with no interaction at all, it would be the coolest thing just to cast a glimpse of these tiny altruists at work, but only as a child, of course. Number four. Monsters. Octorox, River Zora, Zolas, and Stalfos that throw our bones. That's a mouthful, but I couldn't pin it down to just one monster. Remember how annoying Stalfos were in previous games? You had to trap them in a corner to use a range attack to kill them, because every time you swung your sword, the dang things would jump out of the dang way, and check a dang rib at you. Now, I don't have a problem with the way Stalfos fight in 3D games. It's a great design, but my hearts cry out to see bones flunk from time to time. In the early days of Zelda, Link had but one thing to fear in the deep blue of Hyrule's waterways. That one thing was a Zola, later known or corrected as the River Zora. This beastie was a well-known pest to Link who shot fireballs from its mouth to assault the young boy. If you became of this creature of legend, none of them remain who-know. Haha, I get it. Is an Octorock a purple squid who sits stationary in the water waiting for hapless adventures to wander by? Not in the 2D games. It used to be a land-dwelling octopus, or Skull and Link's Awakening, that hunted you down mercilessly and flattened you beneath a barrage of stones. That, I want to find through dimensions. To add more diversity, some Octorocks and Link's Awakening had wings. The Four Sword. This is a tall order, but also likely to happen eventually. This is a multiplayer split-screen, 3D Hyruleian action-adventuring. I've always been a fan of the Four Swords Adventures multiplayer, so this would be awesome to see move into 3D, but even cooler to do it in the style of Four Swords Adventures, where each level is played individually, connected by an overworld. Split the game into manageable portions so that four people could easily pick up the game for half an hour, and put it down at defined stopping points. Although I wouldn't be opposed to the Four Swords style game via Zelda Maker, when and if that's released. Number two is Voddy. This is one, this one is probably most likely out of any on this list to see a 3D rendering. Voddy has the most potential to be a villain, even more beloved than Gearham, and has a fine pedigree in Zelda the Lore. His inclusion to open the door to all sorts of storing content, diminish the Four Sword, the Wind Tribe, come to think of it, why hasn't he been in high rewards? He perfectly fits the theme, and it would have been awesome. And hey, if he makes it into a 3D console game, we could see him in the next Smash Bros. The darkness and arrogance he gives off makes us want to defeat him, and after learning what he did to Eslo, you really want to kick his butt. As long as Gaten doesn't end up being his master or anything, Voddy needs to go through D. And finally, number one, the seed rings. Here it is, number one, and yes, it's from the Oracle games. I apologize. Moving on, seed rings are one thing more perfect in any Zelda game. One of the more perfect items in any Zelda game. They grow on trees. They had to plant a seed to grow a tree that would eventually give you a chance of producing a ring, but you then had to take two of a jeweler to have it appraised. There was a series of events that led up to being able to use a ring. Then there was the vast number of ring effects. We find more rupees or take less damage, so we even transformed it. Take a second to visualize the first gen ring on a 3D game. The uses for rings in a 3D installation would be endless and fun. The rings also gave away to personalized, linked to our play style without adding a warmed over RPG system to the mix. Absolutely genius. These rings also gave a sense of accomplishment and reward for the player with unique benefits when they get something extra, I suppose. And when it comes right down to it, all I really want is the expert's ring so I can go little Mac on Ganondorf. And that is that first email. So, Nate, I did a lot of talking because I did a lot of reading, so you go ahead and take some of that and digest it, as he said. And give us your opinion on some of the stuff that he said and some of the stuff that you'd like to see. So this topic is weird to me. Now, I've reread this email probably a half dozen times because back when I was the primary host, I was always going to talk about it this week and we had too much good stuff happen. So I am a little torn on the entire topic because if you look at some of the stuff he puts on his list, some of it is mechanics and some of it is just like a character or an enemy he would like to see appear in 3D. And the premise that he presented before he gave his example list here is that things that are possible in 2D but haven't been in 3D and things that are possible in 3D that haven't been in 2D and the 2D games are done. You know, with the Minish Cap being the last like true 2D game. Not the last top-downs of the game, but the last one that used 2D sprites and stuff. So I get where he's coming from. I just don't really... This conversation is just so difficult to me because everything he presents on his list is either already been done in 3D, is being done in 3D, or if it hasn't been done in 3D yet it's more so just a wish list of I would like to see this character in 3D. So it's kind of like nothing he actually put on that list is like special and unique to like a 2D game. And I think that's what's really weird about Zelda over the years is in the past there was a clear like distinction between this is a 2D, this is a 3D. And some of the big things that helped the 2D top-down styles of the game stand out is you had more enemies on screen at once and there was enemies on every single screen whereas when you're in a 3D game you don't have enemies every time you take a step. Like that's not a thing. And that's because of the way the world is presented. You can't really have non-stop enemies all the time or it's Hyrule Warriors. Well and that would also kill the framerate of the game as we saw in Hyrule Warriors. It's kind of one of those things like that is something that's unique to a top-down game because there just isn't a good way to replicate that that makes a lot of sense because the world of 3D games doesn't work in like those little square box sections. Like some of the dungeons work that way but in general the worlds are a bit more open. Like not open world because the games are pretty linear until Breath of the Wild but you know it just kind of the boxes are so big that it's not going to get that same experience you do in a top-down game. So that's something I think of from a 2D perspective that isn't in a 3D game that I would like to see them find a way to do it. I just don't know if it's realistic. But you know another thing I used to associate with the 2D games is open world because the only open worlds all the game used to be 2D. There has not been despite what everyone wants to say about the time and Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword. None of these games are truly open world. They're all sectioned off and they're all sending you down the same path. Like if you play the Wind Waker you're tackling the dungeons basically in the same order every single time getting the story unlocked in the same order every single time. That's not open world even though you can quote unquote sale everywhere which you learn early on you can't sale everywhere but eventually it opens up and lets you sale everywhere and that's pretty complete in most of the game. So to me that's not open world. It's the closest a 3D Zelda game has come to be in open world but that's not open world. So that was something that I used to associate with the top-down games. The Legend of Zelda that's truly open world all the game there is. Zelda 2 is pretty close but it's a different type. It's more of an RPG kind of world. Like the old Final Fantasies and stuff used to be. Also that I'll link to the past is probably the other closest maybe a link between worlds but again it still kind of has a set path that wants you to go down even though it lets you do dungeons out of order. Is that what we determine open world to be? You can do dungeons out of order? I mean that one aspect is what makes it open world that doesn't seem right to me. I remember in a link between worlds you had that wall merging ability but you couldn't just go anywhere you wanted even if you wanted to. You had to unlock each section. So maybe you could do turtle rock before some other place but either way you couldn't go to dungeon 9 and do that instead of turtle rock. It wasn't really that free. And only to the past was really the same way. You couldn't just go to the dark world. It didn't happen. You can't go there until the game lets you do it. And that's kind of what I look at as open world games is story-wise there's always a progression but you can kind of go anywhere and do anything you want. Well depending on your level in the game you could sure do it. It's kind of like what E.J. ANOVA said about Breath of the Wild after you get off the plateau you can go fight Climbing Ganon right now. You're probably going to die but you can do it. That's the thing about open world it's not preventing you from doing it it's just going to be extremely difficult and you're going to miss out on a bunch of story. And Breath of the Wild actually feels just as open world as the original Legend of Zelda where even more open world than that since you can do the final dungeon right away or the final fight right away. But you can go anywhere in the world and discover the story in your own way and I'm really interested in how they're going to make that work like how they're going to make it so one player goes one way one player goes another way and when they meet up at the very end of the game and beat the game they're going to have the same story to tell maybe Nintendo doesn't want them to have the same story to tell I don't really know how it's going to work that's actually the thing I'm most excited about and most nervous about because Nintendo no offense to Zelda they don't do very good with story. Well they don't do very good with story in any game. Zelda is probably one of the more complex stories they have but what makes it complex is how bad they are at telling it. But Metroid Other M was a really complex story and it made Samus a very strong protagonist. I liked Other M. I know that's a lot of sarcasm I liked Other M. I know. The gameplay was fine. I liked the story too. The only thing I didn't like the only thing I didn't like is it felt and I know some of it's the lines but Samus's voice acting just felt really dry like that and like you can't use any of your power ups to go through this place why was you not to? That was the weakest explanation for that. Well I mean that's pretty much how every video game works ever. You can't use this gun in this level because we just said you can't. Oh I'm sorry. You can't use that gun in that level because it's too hot and it's going to overheat so how about my other guns? Why don't they overheat? They always give really lame whenever a game is trying to restrict you to force you to use different parts of your gameplay experience to me I have never seen a good excuse for why you can't use an item. Anyways it was bad in that game too. I'm not saying it was good. It was bad in that game too. But no like he brings up a really interesting topic. What do we want to see from a 2D game that hasn't been done in a 3D game? Come to a 3D game? Yeah there's lots of characters. Obviously everyone wants to see Vati the Picori there's a whole bunch of races and stuff I think the Mogmai. Wait no we saw those in Skyward Sword. There's guys that races you want to see come over maybe items you want to see come over but even a lot of the items you want to see come over some part of the way that item works has already been done in 3D for the most part. We were just talking about two different ways it's already been done in 3D. All you're talking about is combining them in the one item. Well they could do that. Maybe they will. I don't know. But none of that really is a major thing. A player is really going to know oh man that came from a 2D game. The things that signify a top down game to me compared to say the 3D games is something that really can't translate because as I said the top down games, things unique to it are things such as the enemies on every single screen which you're just not going to replicate very well in a 3D environment. Or the type of puzzles that work very very well in a 3D environment but don't really make a lot of sense in a 3D environment. That's something that's unique to those 2D games to those top down games and you can't really replicate that in 3D. There's a reason you can't replicate that in 3D because it doesn't make sense. It doesn't feel good. Even the way some of the block pushing puzzles work there's block pushing in top downs all the games and 3Ds all the games. But they feel different because they have to be different because they got to serve the perspective the player has on the game. So there's a lot of things where I don't think there is anything more Nintendo can do outside of the open world which now they're doing that they could bring from those 2D games that actually makes sense. One thing that I would like to see from the 2D game would be more of a mechanic and it's not necessarily solely from a Zelda game but I'd like to see a level up system kind of similar to what we had in Link's Awakening in the adventure of Link, not Link's Awakening where we had every time you leveled up you got more health or you got more mana or something like that. I liked that mechanic because it made it to me whenever you level up from killing enemies even in a game that's not really an RPG in the classic sense I like turn based RPG it gives you a sense of accomplishment and again I think that's one of the things of the new Mario games are missing Paper Mario games is like when you kill an enemy you get experience and you level up and there's a reward for that and it feels good whenever you level up because you accomplished something and I think that would be a cool thing to have if it was in any game to be in Breath of the Wild but we're seeing that there's like other ways to increase health and probably magic that isn't through leveling up so it'll be interesting to see how they handle that but if there is one thing from a Zelda game 2D Zelda game that I could bring back it could probably be the leveling system and I know a lot of people probably disagree with that but I really liked that To bring about the leveling system is one of the core things that essentially takes this from being an action adventure game to being an action adventure RPG RPG some people really want that to happen they want the Legend of Zelda Witcher that's what they want and that's cool that's fine the Adventure of Link is my favorite Zelda game so obviously I love the leveling system as much as I know the person that submitted this topic loathes the leveling system and calls it broken and too difficult I question if you played any RPGs back then because all of them were like that and maybe that's why I'm more accepting of it because like sorry, Final Fantasy back then was just as hard to level up in if not more even when you get to the SNES and you're playing the Mystic Quest and Final Fantasy 2 games are hard and that's part of the appeal of those games and Zelda doesn't really have that sort of appeal anymore in that direction but it'd be interesting to bring that back and obviously there's a lot of blueprints for a lot of games that have done it they could do anything they want Zelda has kind of sort of obviously replaced all that with the heart system you beat a boss, you get a heart increases your health that's your XP kind of thing but you don't see that progression with everything you fight one other way they could do it then instead of health or mana would probably be like what more action RPGs are doing now and you have a skill tree each time you defeat an enemy or you complete quests you can take a point to spend in a skill tree and I know again a lot of people like this game got a lot of hate we just didn't really talk about it a lot from people that thought that this game was becoming too westernized with the way that it was playing but I'd really like to see a leveling system and that's a way that they could do it without replacing what their current method is for hearts and mana where you eat certain items or you get heart containers or something like that you have a skill tree like certain like crafting skill trees or stamina skill trees or something like that I think it would be pretty cool to see that's not really from a 2D Zelda game though but the leveling system is it kind of is because basically it was increase your health or increase your magic that was it more strength but for the most part it was health or magic to be honest if you wanted to beat that game and that's fine I think Breath of the Wild actually approaching this in a very smart way where essentially everything about the games in RPG without leveling and I think this is just me from playing the demo and seeing the footage that we've all seen now a lot of the sense of accomplishment and defeating these enemies now isn't an XP game it's that you got a new weapon and that weapon does X amount of damage or you are almost out of weapons so you need that weapon and I think something I've started to like about Breath of the Wild that I didn't think I would because I love RPGs I love leveling it's been a staple of my gaming like forever is that it feels more organic to me than I thought it would because one thing that was always weird about leveling is that yeah you start off like oh you're this mage and you're not very powerful because you killed some things you're magically more powerful than you were before as if they gave you some mystical magic dust and sprinkled it on you it's not very realistic like yes you get better with practice but I'm not getting better with practice I'm getting better by killing things and if I kill the same bokoblin the same way a thousand different times it doesn't make me suddenly more capable to kill bigger enemies it just means I'm really damn good at killing bokoblins but that's not the way XP works XP is a grind and even if they make it where you get enough XP or they balance it enough where you're not ever really grinding so you don't really ever like you're always leveling but it never feels like you're behind I guess if that's the case where you feel like you have to go out and grind enemies then one some people that are just going around and exploring are going to end up way the hell over level because they're going to encounter my enemies and two you know you kind of went to that thing well and you don't notice it then what's the point of leveling anyways because it doesn't really feel like progression when you're just going to get there regardless of if it says you have a new level or not I do like skill trees I understand all that complexity that goes with it that's why I love games of the Witcher I love even rule of warcraft I still play that to this day Legion I only get about one play session in a week but hey I enjoy that play session immensely it's one of those things that I really really appreciate for these breath of the wild something about and I'm not going to know until I get off that plateau and I get to go out and do more but I never felt like there wasn't a reason for me to fight this group of guys which is what I could feel like sometimes in Zelda you know how many enemies in most of Zelda you can I just run by because what's the point there's no real point to kill I'll just say oh I killed them whereas in Zelda because your items are all breakable you're trying to find the new clothes because you're trying to get to that chest because you want to go pick that herb because you're trying to do all these other RPG like elements it makes the enemies feel like they matter and because of how the enemies interact with the world which is one thing I really love about Breath of the Wild that I don't think any other game not even like Skyrim or anything has gotten right is all these enemies these beast enemies interact with the actual world itself like they're not on a set pattern they kind of interact with what's happening around you they hear a rustle in the wind they react to it it's really cool and I think because the world feels so organic and how they work it feels more organic to me that when I kill them I don't get some mystical number that pops up in my head and says you leveled up or here's some XP rather you pick up a new item and you're like oh yeah this item is more badass sweet we don't know if there's crafting yet we hope so it makes too much sense for the night especially with things being breakable like some sort of crafting system to repair your favorite item I think would be really cool especially with all the material you gathered it's got to be used for something besides cooking like what am I going to use an ancient screw for in my meal anyways so it's I don't know I'm kind of stuck in this world where I like the way Breath of the Wild is doing it and I kind of want to see that play out before I'm like you know what put that level system in there because maybe I'm going to come out the end and be like look this game is really really good might be the best sell that I played but I wish it had leveling because I fought all these mobs and it just got repetitive and I didn't feel any progression from doing it and that's probably what you were hinting at you could end up fighting a bunch of mobs and you get no progression because you get the same items over and over and over again that you don't need you're just leaving them on the ground but we don't know well I know it's based on just the plateau it didn't feel that way but again that's the opening area they're going to make it feel as you know progressive as possible in that area whether or not that is the way the rest of the world works I have no idea that's one of the things like I talked about how when you defeat an enemy like you get some sort of recompense for it and I guess that's that was probably my biggest problem with sticker star and well not my biggest problem there's plenty of other problems with those games the sticker star and paint splash color splash he hates that game so much it's just called paint splash I think it's okay the problem is when you take out the reward for killing enemies and this is kind of the same kind of goes in the same vein but in a way the two games are on a similar path when you use your weapon in Breath of the Wild the weaker it becomes and eventually breaks in color splash you use the cards and then they're gone after each battle and what this forces you to do is choose your fights because if you get into a fight that you're just wasting cards on then you lost like four or five cards or however many it takes in Breath of the Wild if you get into a fight with some moblins for no reason well you know you could get an extra item you're also wearing down another item um well I also think Breath of the Wild like in that sort of comparison I feel like it's almost better than what color splash did no no no yeah yeah you get another item you get a weapon you get something at the end of it but my point is it's not as rewarding to just go into a fight with nothing or with stuff and then kind of walk out with either lesser stuff or nothing at all and that's you know when you take away a leveling system and again we don't know that much about Breath of the Wild's leveling system or how if it has one, if it doesn't have one or how you progress but when you don't really get a lot of reward for fighting battles you kind of wonder well what's the point in fighting battles why not just run past the enemies or try to get around them that was what I found myself doing a lot in color splash was well I'm obviously just going to be wasting cards and I'm probably going to get like one back or I'm just going to waste cards and there's no reason for me to keep fighting sure and the more I fought the less I felt like oh yeah I'm accomplishing stuff it was more along the lines of okay this is just a hindrance now whereas in like Thousand Year Door and the First Paper Mario, even in Super Paper Mario there was some sort of like leveling system and you felt accomplished when you beat an enemy and again I don't know how it's going to work with Breath of the Wild yeah that's the thing you need to get off that plateau because on that plateau like you could still avoid enemies and everything like you don't have to fight them but you want to because you have nothing so like every mob you fight you're trying to build up your collection of items or you're trying to get to that chest and get that fighter on or whatever like they did a very good job of the plateau of giving you reasons to want to engage the enemies and sometimes it's just as much which I think is one thing that Breath of the Wild right now has over Color Splash is like a lot of the battles you're not fighting because you think you're going to lose you're going to waste items sometimes the fun part of it is figuring out how to kill them without items like and that's what's really cool like in Color Splash you don't have the cards you're not going to win just the way it is but Breath of the Wild you can actually beat them if you have no items and you know some of that's because obviously later on you get things like the bomb ability where you always have unlimited bombs stuff like that so the game kind of gets you stuff to make sure you can always engage in combat but just figuring out you know maybe if I push this boulder off this area I can take out all these guys if I set up these explosive barrels in a certain way and I can get them to explode like we saw on the Jimmy Fallon footer yeah like saw on the Jimmy Fallon footer like this that's the way the plateau is it's set up in such a beautiful way that you don't ever feel like you are on a level because there's too many other ways or reasons to fight these enemies but again that's what Color Splash kind of felt that way for a while too and then as you progress through the game you'll kind of lose that feeling and I'm hoping that that doesn't happen with Breath of the Wild but if Breath of the Wild is as big as it's going to be I don't know how it can't like you know carefully crafted every area would have to be to pull this off and who knows maybe it is I mean this game's got six years of development you know five and a half whatever it very well could be that well crafted and that's what everyone hopes it is but I don't think I've seen a game that I almost think Breath of the Wild is kind of on its own pedestal right now I don't know if there's any game that's like this that has every RPG element in the world but leveling yeah so it's kind of like it's kind of doing something like you know everyone's talking about oh maybe it's not as revolutionary because there's other open world games there's other games that let you make food and that's fine but how many of those games don't have leveling mm-hmm like all of them do so it's really be really interesting to see if they can keep my interest the way they did in the plateau area throughout the whole game in terms of enemy mobs or if it's going to be like in Wind Waker where I'm just sailing by him or I'm just rolling by him because I don't really care yeah and that you know it'll be interesting to like you said how they keep you engaging enemies and want to engage enemies because after a while it was kind of like in Skyward Sword achievement it was kind of like in Skyward Sword where you're like oh this is a neat mechanic like they they change their weapons and I have to adjust to you know where I need to hit them and that's kind of cool but it was cool for like the first dungeon yeah you don't really fight them if you have to yeah that's like I really don't want to fight them because I have to like wait for them to change their attack pattern or the way they hold it just you know it got repetitive and again that's one of the things that we talked about I think last time was how Nintendo's going to keep these fights from being repetitive and we think that we're going to get that from like the footage we saw where there's multiple ways to take on enemies so you're not always going to be fighting them with sword combat you can fight them with arrows you could stealth kill them all you never know and that's one of the cool things that's the exciting things and even Reggie said again in the Jimmy Fallon footage he said well we've been emphasizing that this game is play how you want to play and that is something that would be you know something that it's exciting because we're no longer confined to playing you know oh well you have to rush in and attack them with a sword it's like well you can do all these different ways of playing and that is something we've never seen in a Zelda game before it's always been pretty forward like well this enemy takes this item and you have to defeat it this way but again you know obviously we're way off topic now but I mean seriously like thank you for the submission I'm sorry it took three months or so here to get to it but when you submit something that long I mean we need a good chunk of time to pull off this conversation but we kind of steer just back to at least that part of the topic I just don't I guess personally I don't see anything from the 2D games except some characters that I really want to see come to 3D I think what makes the 2D games special is stuff that cannot be replicated in 3D in the first place which is why I think those games need to continue to exist whether or not they're actually 2D sprite games or if they're just top-down Zelda games because top-down Zelda games basically present to you the same thing whether it's 2.5D or so kind of sort of 3D like only between worlds it's very much a top-down Zelda game that felt like The Manage Cap and Oracle Seasons and Ages so I guess you know what do we want to bring over nothing I think they've done pretty much as good at a job as they can and that what makes those games special is just what is unique from that perspective and unless we get a top-down 3D Zelda game which I don't think that's ever going to happen I mean it looks between the worlds maybe something more advanced than that but it's never going to be an actual third-person perspective with the camera anywhere you want so I think I'm pretty satisfied with what they've done now now that they've brought over open world that was always the one that I'm like man are they just afraid of doing it's got to be so huge it's got to you know do a whole bunch of stuff you know like it's got to go well beyond it's much harder to do I guess what I'm trying to say over a 2D open world game so it was always one of those things are they ever actually going to do it and they are supposedly so we've been promised open airs of the game like I said for me the only thing that I really want to take over is the leveling and the thing is that's not even really like a 2D it's not really exclusive it's just exclusive Zelda 2D because that's the only game we've had it in and that's the only thing that I'd like to see carryover from a Zelda game I can say you know it's a little bit off type I guess you know what I want to see come back you know because you mentioned the leveling thing and stuff from the 2D games I would like to see them create another side scrolling Zelda game I know that's crazy we have Nintendo does a zillion side scrollers but did we talk about this before because I feel like you know Assassin's Creed did the Assassin's Creed China those ones where it was like a side scroller kind of like trying did you ever play trying that's what I imagine that they could do with a chic game is something side scrolling where you can kind of have stealth where you just go it'd be cool to see like a thief themed chic game but I can also see them do like a 2D side scroller like that but it's always something that I was like I know it was a quote unquote failed idea but Nintendo's really good with side scrollers so I don't know you're getting a Pikmin one if Pikmin can do it Zelda's already been there before so can it really be worse unless the Pikmin one doesn't even look that bad it just doesn't it's just not Pikmin I mean it's Pikmin it's just something else taking place in the Pikmin world but it's not like traditional Pikmin yeah that remains to be seen how well that game is going to do I'm probably still going to pick it up because I think people are less upset about that than the Metroid Federation fours because they get Pikmin 3 on the Wii U so yeah and it's still like Pikmin it's not Pikmin without Pikmin in it we know that Pikmin 4 is like a thing that exists whether or not it's coming out anytime soon who knows so again thanks for that topic we've got a good chunk of our podcast from it we've got I'm going to read a few just a few of our other fan topics and then we'll see how we're doing on time whether or not we want to push something for next week or keep it for this week so let's see oh clear as throat Lee Lovelace said and I think that we're going to agree on this one, Nate and I do you think that Breath of the Wild is a step in the right direction for Legend of Zelda do you think it's partly an attempt to expand the already vast Legend of Zelda fan base by trying something new with the series assuming it's well received and like do you think it'll be a permanent change to Legend of Zelda in the future if not do you think we'll see the return of this kind of Zelda game it's a little difficult to answer that question because we're trying a lot of different things in the game unless you're referring specifically to the open world or the open air aspect of it depending on how well received the game is this was a really ambitious thing for Nintendo to do to make this game and you know Emily Rogers has even gone on and said that this is quote unquote too ambitious but yeah so if they had a hard time with the open world and that's what took them so long then we might see it again but we also might have a longer time between games especially if they continue to do the completely new engine with each game I'd like to see this become the new form for Zelda like an open world action game where you kind of get thrown out into the world and you experience a story as you go along like we've talked about this before last week it's really hard to say what's going to become a trend with Zelda because there is no real trend with Zelda all the games kind of play differently in terms of their core mechanics and the core mechanic for this game is the open world so whether or not we'll see that again is going to be a mystery until we get the next game and if we get like two major Zelda games with the exact same mechanic then it'll probably be like the new form for Zelda I'd like to see it be the new form for Zelda but it's a little too early to call if that makes sense just because we don't know like this is what I wanted Zelda to do you know not just the open world, everything they're doing it's beyond what I expected I think it's beyond what anyone realistically expected Nintendo to pull off with an open world Zelda so far and I don't think it's going to end up being the future of the franchise as much as I want it to be not because the sales are going to be bad not because it's not going to bring new people in in fact I think this game is not going to bring new people in so much as it's going to bring more of the Zelda fan base together for a single game than any game has done since Twilight Princess now that doesn't mean there's not going to be new people that this is their first Zelda game I think that happens with every Zelda game but I think that even if this game does well let's say it tops 10 million sales which seems to be a number of Nintendo has been wanting a Zelda game to hit forever and just they can't do it especially on a single platform so you know and this game might not even have a chance to do that on a single platform it's selling 10 million units on the Switch so like that's crazy to even think that's possible but based on Ejinomu's own words about Breath of the Wild he said yes he would like to do another game like Breath of the Wild again you know maybe one more time and it's like that one more time thing tells me that even if this game is awesome this isn't Ocarina of Time this isn't a link to the past it's not setting a new standard they're not going to keep making open worlds other games they kind of get to do an issue we've talked about before there's no consistency with the series they're going to have this massively successful open world game just like they had a massively successful Twilight Princess and they're not going to care they're going to turn around and do whatever the hell they want and we as fans just have to kind of eat it knowing that yes someday they'll probably do another open world game because Ejinomu said he wants to do at least one more so it's like oh yeah we'll get at least one more it's hard for me to take any single game as being like this is the new benchmark that's going to set the standards for the series because until Nintendo proves it actually wants to stick to something what is a standard yeah like even Ocarina of Time like how many games deviated from that you know how many games deviated from a link to the past even Majora's Mask a direct sequel deviated like the Legend of Zelda Zelda 2 deviated pretty dang far from what the Legend of Zelda was like Zelda doesn't stick to like a set path like I know a lot of fans want it to happen they want it to be like you know like The Witcher or you know the Elder Scrolls games are like you have a kind of a set direction for the type of experience you can expect every single time like at Breath of the Wild ends up being the highest critically acclaimed Zelda game and somehow unseeds Ocarina of Time which means it would be the highest rated game of all time if it does that even it doesn't matter because it didn't matter for Ocarina of Time that's not going to be the future of Zelda and that sucks because every time Zelda seems to find its height of popularity it decides it wants to throw it out the window and do something else and it's weird because I like all these experimental games I like the Wind Waker, I like the Four Swords and the Four Swords Adventures and you know Triforce Heroes you know even only between worlds which is like the first time we've had a game that far apart revisit a world before Majora's Mask I like all these games that do things differently but they also create consistency issues and I think if Breath of the Wild ends up becoming some sort of new high mark for the series which I think is what I think is what even Zelda fans that want this game to fail they really don't want it to fail they want to be proven wrong they want this game to be literally one of the best games they've ever played in their whole life that's what they want they just know in the back of their minds and Breath of the Wild is going to set this bar and I don't know if Nintendo is going to get back up to it anytime soon because they just don't seem interested in sticking with that uniform direction alright this Open World game is great so now all future 3D Zelda games should be Open World I don't see them doing that and it sucks I want to say I'm confident that they will but they won't history shows us with Zelda it doesn't matter how popular the game is it's not going to determine what the next game is Ocarina of Time was super successful so let's release Majora's Mask which they're going to eat because it's the same art style except it sold way worse than Ocarina of Time it had a time system it wasn't in Hyrule, it only had 4 dungeons and it was based on its whole mass system everything was so different from Ocarina of Time that Ocarina of Time players were like ehhhhh you're kind of like the dumb cousin that doesn't get it you don't get why we like Ocarina of Time and the thing is like the people who play Majora's Mask love Majora's Mask but it was a totally different type of game than Ocarina of Time was and I think whatever they do next for Zelda after Breath of the Wild God forbid it takes another 5 or 6 years which I really hope it doesn't but if it does, I doubt it's going to be another game like this again it could be that Wind Waker 2 game like they might go all the way back to that just because they want to like whatever the minds behind it want it to go and I think when you have a world like Breath of the Wild they put so much into it that the next game after that they don't want to do that again and I kind of get that feeling from what they've done in the past like they don't want to do what they've already done and try to do better at it which is what a lot of games do like The Witcher got progressively better with each game because it took what it did before made it better and added more on top but that's not what Zelda does take what it did before and add more on top takes what it did before, throws it out the window and tries again in regard to this so a personal desire if this game is as good as it is hopefully cracking up to be then yes, I would like to see this be the future of the series we're to a point now, handhelds and consoles are being melded together there's no reason to necessarily release even release top-down Zelda games anymore unless they're just going to have like a side team so like that in theory should speed up development having like a single title represent the series moving forward and I would like to see them continue even if they don't want to stick with the same art style which I think would be I think I'd like to see them stick with this art style but even if they weren't going to just the ideas presented in it would be nice to see them stick with and I could totally see whatever's next after Breath of the Wild being maybe the most linear Zelda game we've ever made the polar opposite because they're tired of Open World and it sucks it sucks thinking about that because like we waited what 30 years to get an Open World Zelda game again since the first one came out who thought in 86 you get an Open World Zelda game and you'd have to wait 30 years to get another one well here's the thing I'd be okay with a non-Open World Zelda game on one condition and that is being story-driven Zelda game like really story-driven not like Skyward Sword story-driven where the story's eh but like a really engaging story like The Last of Us where it's a good story and it's not necessarily Open World it's like more level based and like you move through it like a film I know that's like a pipe dream that's probably never gonna happen that's probably The Last of Us or Heavy Rain where the reason you play as a story is not the gameplay that's never gonna do that but that's the only thing I'd be okay with after this going back to a linear because as I've said I've loved Zelda up to this point like every game has come out I love it even Ocarina of Time that I crap upon I love Ocarina of Time it's just not my favorite Zelda game that's just the way it is for a whole bunch of reasons however you look at the history of the series it's got all these up and down these dips and all these new directions and Breath of the Wild felt like this at E3 like oh my god my eyes are open now like that one game that's like no this game is so much better than any other Zelda game that I've ever experienced that anything else besides something that goes in this direction is gonna feel like a lesser game and I feel like that's what a lot of people who have Ocarina of Time on that's pedestal I think that's the way they feel I think they feel that it's on this pedestal that they've really done anything like it since so nothing's as good and I am a little worried that that's what's gonna happen with Breath of the Wild for me but it's because that's what I felt like at E3 I've said this on others the iPodcast I've said this on even the Nintendo Prime iPodcast with Eric who was at E3 with me that after I played that demo Breath of the Wild may already be my favorite Zelda game just the demo area like that could be a game on its own that's how good it is so I really worry about I I guess I should have trust Nintendo like at all and that's the problem with there being multiple like different styles and different forms of Zelda games is that you can say that one is better than well you can and you can't because they're all different and so you're going from Ocarina of Time to Wind Waker two completely separate styles ones in the ocean, ones on land ones more open world than the other one flows slightly seamlessly into the other one's not a sectioned off like there are two completely different games in terms of you know maybe not necessarily how they play but their core concepts and it's really hard to compare them it's it's a little difficult to explain it's kind of like when we got the question about how to replicate the Zelda magic and why no other game has done it it's really difficult to describe because like we said we keep saying this, all those other games are different and comparing them is like it's kind of comparing apples to oranges in a way but oranges that are really similar to apples just because they're very different games within the same vein and they're also other but they're all different like different art style different gameplay and whether or not we'll see another one I'd like to see another one like Breath of the Wild especially if this game blows me out of the water like I expected to expectations are really high for this game by the way, in case anyone was questioning that almost every Zelda fan has really high expectations for this game so it better deliver but whether we'll see another one there's a big possibility we will but there's also a big possibility we won't but also because of what they've said that they'd like to do another game like Breath of the Wild also I think I might be pronouncing this wrong I would say Louis Freeth said pretty much the same thing but we had a longer, more detailed question sure so one thing I want to bring up and you probably aren't aware of this because you're not paying attention to what's happening in our news chat room right now we actually got some news for Breath of the Wild potentially there was a Mitomo Datamine that provides Breath of the Wild Art I'm not sure how this is confirmed to be Breath of the Wild Art because I haven't closely examined this yet but some of the somebody said it may be Fire Emblem I can't tell I'm wondering it's so hard to tell I'm trying to figure out what confirms that it's Zelda art is it because well some of the things they uncovered definitely have Zelda in it who knows but if it is I guess the only thing I can say is the biggest news is the map and there are aspects of this that do look like the map like the island in the middle of that water that's in the Breath of the Wild map we've seen that so if this is that's very interesting just because maybe we'll throw an image up in the video but it's got like three land masses so the more I look at it the more I'm seeing things that are from the Zelda map but if you continue to look at the Datamine it looks like a lot of stuff from Fire Emblem 2 yeah it's mixed it looks like it's a lot of mixed in stuff I don't know anyways it's just really cool obviously if this turns out to be something we'll probably have more to say next week once we can figure out what is Zelda what's Fire Emblem it's just something that popped up like oh man I wish this popped up earlier so we could have did the research and found out what's what so we know what to be excited about not the Fire Emblems nothing to not be excited about this could be teasing in a new Fire Emblem game but anyways what's the next fan topic or are we moving on to the thing you want to move on to so this is just because I don't know what we're doing next week may have a guest we may not it really depends on if he gets back seems to be how it is every week yeah last week we had an interview so check out the interview but depending on how long this can go since it's Christmas time is coming and in Christmas we get gifts and we give gifts but there's no greater gift than the gift of a dream game at least in my opinion there's probably greater gifts but just for the sake of the podcast that's what we'll say so I want us to talk about what our dream game for the Switch would be from an already existing series and you can't say Breath of the Wild it could be from an already existing series or it could be a completely new game that you come up on your own with and I'm going to toss this one to Nate first put him on the spot because I'm just cool like that this is tough for me because like part of me wants like you know give me that new IP baby give me that new game that I don't even know what I want to give it to me or like there's a game in my head that I really want to present the idea for the problem is there is a game in my head I want to present the idea for but like I'm going to school to make games so I kind of want to keep that idea to myself so I can actually make it one day not really put it out there so I should have podcasts that people listen to if it wasn't a Prime podcast like yeah maybe I'll throw it out there then but no so I think I'm going to stick to there is really three franchises I keep thinking of that I really want to see continue at least continue in a vein similar to what hooked me on them in the first place obviously the first almost obvious choice for anyone who knows me is a true a Mana game in the mold of Secret of Mana and I know that series hasn't completely died there's like three or four other games none of them are any good Secret of Mana is like the pinnacle at least to me what an RPG is an action RPG and I would love to see a game like that or even like retcon the series and just do a direct sequel to it like that exclusive to the Switch in full 3D or something like that I think would be just epic I also wouldn't mind seeing another Tales of Syphonia kind of game now the Tales of series is actually still going specifically Tales of Syphonia specifically Tales of Syphonia something in that vein there are other Tales games and I'm not going to say they're bad because they're not not the way that I feel about the other Mana games where I'm like yeah those games aren't really that good but the other Tales of games are good but the Syphonia direction to me was like the pinnacle of what those games could achieve at least for my entertainment the other one is a much beloved game that really no one talks about anymore and that's bot and ketos that game I think there was a bot and ketos too if I remember was not even close to as good as the original it was the only to this day probably the only card based RPG battle system I liked what's it called bot and ketos it came out on the Gamecube I can get you a link to it sometime or you can just google it looking up it's a very very good RPG I feel like not even a lot of people played at the time but to me it's like it might even be the best RPG in my opinion on the Gamecube and like I said it's the only one that's got a card based battle system I really enjoyed I didn't feel held back by it and I didn't feel like it wasn't challenging enough very good game and I would like to you know I believe that didn't get at least one sequel but that's the monolith soft game yeah that's the thing monolith soft is Nintendo so like that's like in terms of realistic chances this is the most realistic chance especially if they want to take a break from what they've been doing and maybe go back to some roots here and you know make a game that might be cheaper to make or something but I would really like to see that come to switch like the thing is none of the games I'm suggesting are games that are like going to make the switch like super super successful but like these are the kind of games that I think gamers look back on and be like yeah we had that Super Mario 64 we had that Twilight Princess that Wind Waker like we had these big games but we also had these games in between and these games in between are kind of what you can argue the Wii U is missing you know yeah we have Bayonetta 2 which is absolutely fantastic we have Devil's Third wasn't very good the Wonderful 101 was great okay that's 2 and 4 plus years like that's not enough so like these are the kind of games I love them a lot so like I'm a like a big niche fan of them they're all obviously within the RPG spectrum which I love RPGs and I feel like as much as we are kind of getting some RPG love now with the Wii U you know we had the Internet Chronicles 2 in Breath of the Wilds getting some kind of RPG treatment heck we might be getting Skyrim remastered like we're getting RPG love now apparently for the Switch but I would like to see it be some more variety in there your card based battle RPG your action RPG that's kind of like The Witcher but since that series is done that's why Secret of Ana is something in that pain those are kind of the 3 titles I would like to see some sequels too or you know even original games that are kind of just based on those kind of molds but yeah that's really it for me I know what you said 1, I had 3 just kind of the way it is because I'm literally torn on those I've been begging for sequels like good quality sequels on Nintendo platforms for those games forever and that's what said like games that you want games that are realistic I mean mine really aren't any secret a lot I mean obviously I wanted Darksiders 3 we've already gotten one we've already got War, we've already got Death I want to see Strife maybe be a female protagonist they'd be just because at the very end of Darksiders 2 I'm not going to spoil it but they tease a possible third game yeah there's more to tell they didn't plan to stop it it's just the company went under and they're supposed to be a third game and so I'm really hoping that the third game is either a breakout game for the Switch like it's a day one release or it comes out later on for the Switch like that's my hope I really want that game because Darksiders is one of those underdog franchises it doesn't get a lot of love but deserves a third game just because it's so the story is so good and it's so well written and then I'm really hoping for a true Luigi's Mansion sequel like Luigi's Mansion 3 or whatever they want to call it where we see things like Portrait Ghost to make a return where each ghost has different personalities and they look different and they react different and there are different ways to catch them Luigi's Mansion 1 basically just like Luigi's Mansion 1 take those concepts and improve upon them like that's my favorite game of all time I just want to see it done justice again because I was not really a fan of Darkmoon was there anything in Darkmoon you liked? the music was pretty good I'm a big fan of the music in the game the bosses were really bland to me they were all the same ghost the King Boo boss fight was spoiler alert in case you were that's not even a part of the game I know it just it felt it lacked it's the same problem that a lot of people have with Paper Mario is that lack the character of the older ones sticker star didn't have the buddy system or the partner system so you missed out on all those characters and so that was my biggest problem with that in terms of like see you said three games so I'm gonna throw some other ones out there yeah I gotta reach the Darksiders 3 out of the way those are obvious games that I'd like to see again I'd really like to see I've said this before too like a Pokemon Colosseum or XD Gale of Darkness type game come out again on the switch because those were two games that were really really good on the GameCube and especially now that we're joining the two systems together I think that'd be really really cool to maybe like since who knows we might have the Pokemon box on there you can bring over Pokemon from your Pokemon box into these games and play with them that way I have no idea I just really liked those games I liked how they played I liked the story behind them it was a bit different than we got before and we haven't seen anything from who did that Intelligent Systems and oh my gosh there's one other company that did it what was it? I have to lick this up I don't remember but those were two games that I really really liked Genius Sonority that's right okay and I'd like to see more of those I just like the way they played I like the battling system the characters so basically what I want to out of those three are GameCube games that I'd like to see come back we seem to keep going back to that era it has such great games oh a game that I'd like to see I have another one another sequel like a true sequel would be Elevates nice because that was a really good game the music in that game was fantastic that game is amazing and if you've never played that was like a release game for the Wii and it's probably one of the best games on the Wii to be honest it was fantastic that was a proof of concept game that worked really really well imagine like if you wanted to play Ghostbusters on the Wii but like a good version of Ghostbusters pick up Elevates and it's just really fun I love that game so much I need to play it again stick game with my RPG theme I just got to throw a shout out Skies of Arcadia we need another one just needs to happen it's not going to sorry I would say I love what a RPG is I know I don't know if I can think of any other games like ones that we don't think that we don't immediately think that will be on the Switch obviously there's going to be a fire move Madden I would love Madden to be on there so then I can get rid of my Xbox One I don't know I can't think of anything else that I'd like to see on there those are my dream games that I'd like to see more of I can't so many RPGs popped in my head I'm trying to think of some other games we're getting Stardew Valley which is a game it got pushed to the Switch which is nice it's funny that I want all these RPG things I don't have time anymore to play these kind of games I don't know how I'm going to find like this is probably the first time in my life I can literally say that wasn't for the fact that I got paid to cover Zelda I would not be able to play Breath of the Wild I'm not even kidding I would just not have time to play it I would not even beat the final boss in that game probably for like 7 years I just don't have time but thank God that I do now I have this Nintendo Prime game going I really want Nintendo Prime to make money just for the sole prospect I can use the excuse I gotta play this game for review gotta play it that's what excites me about the Switch thing and Nintendo Prime taking all these games maybe I will be able to find time because it's a job now so to me spending all day writing I can spend all day playing and then a little bit of time writing I don't have that excuse see if I didn't have kids I wouldn't even matter obviously I have all this time in the world to play games I know I don't get paid I don't get paid enough for this it's okay I can't even think of any other obscure things let's see a Bayonetta 3 I think there's clearly room for one Bayonetta 2 is fantastic I'm not a big Bayonetta fan myself not really my kind of game not my kind of game I did own it at one point I bought the one that came with the first one on it or maybe all copies came with the first one I can't remember only the first few released Bayonetta 2 I've been till now hasn't when I bought it new it didn't have it attached to it when I bought Bayonetta 2 it had the first game included which I mean they were fun I didn't beat them but I played a lot of them I got probably a good 10 hours into each game really really good games just not my kind of game but I don't really have any if I was reviewing it I don't really have any complaints it's just not a game that I feel like I need to finish it's a hack and slash game but a very good one it's an action game a very very damn good action game that has a very unique premise and theme to it that in today's world it's kind of frowned upon but platinum doesn't care platinum cared about what people wanted and we wouldn't have gotten the wonderful 101 and the wonderful 101 is fantastic it's very difficult to play it's got a learning curve it does and I think that's why people got turned off from it so fast but it is amazing once you figure it out that game is good something that I'd like to see the wonderful 102 it'll never happen something that I'd love to have a big presence on the Switch would be a huge indie presence on it because I know they kind of tried to push that with Wii U we didn't get a lot of those indie games until we were just getting Axiom Verge on the Wii U and that game has been out forever I'm surprised a lot of the bigger ones that came on other platforms seemed to be like yeah we'll bring the Wii U someday or we can't cancel it now for the Switch it's like that's one thing I hope indie developers kind of get a pass on this like this is an issue about AAA gaming like it comes out on these platforms and it's delayed for another people get mad at AAA publishers for it and they don't have enough money to not do that yeah so it's hard to get mad at indie developers like yeah first I'm going to release on Xbox One if it does well there then we have enough money to do it on PlayStation then we have enough money like I get it because you're limited in funds but I wish some of these bigger studios that they're still indie very much indie but they've made enough money now where if you're going to ever release it on all these platforms the architecture is going to make it easy to port I think that was one of the problems for the indie game like I think ukulele I presume ukulele is not coming to Wii U anymore not anymore it's not coming out until next year or the year after I don't even know and with the Switch I don't know why they wouldn't cancel the Wii U version just do a Switch version but if they do, I have a feeling it's going to release at the same time as everyone else I think that once the Switch comes out and they see the architecture for it and they play around with it a bit we'll see these games come out at the same time I think the biggest problem was it's really easy to develop for the PS4 and the Xbox One because they're not that different in terms of how you build games and put them on them and what helps is that Nvidia is apparently giving all the support so like native English speakers you don't have to wait for translators and crappy emails from Japan to get your support it sounds funny saying that but if you listen to some of the third-party developers especially Indy's complaints about Nintendo's support, it's not that Nintendo isn't like responding to them right away they are but so much gets lost in translation that it's just it's very poor communication and Nintendo's always been hard to develop for because they've always tried to do their own architecture and their own thing which worked fine until the PlayStation came along and that was the difficulty that kind of set like a different standard and now today the standard is oh everything's going, it's got to be like PC compatible even then that's a stretch because a lot of games that are coming out are broken on PC well that's because it developed for console first but like I'm saying for Indy's I like to see games like Hyper Light Drifter and Axiom Verge and stuff like that come out on the Switch when they come out on everything else yeah and I hope they will I think they will but I really hope that they have a more Indy presence because like Nintendo is like oh yeah we're focusing more on the independent developers but we got pushed back for Axiom Verge which is essentially a new Metroid game and Nintendo, I think it was, was it an E3 or they just announced that they were going to put it on the Wii U? I think so yeah and the only game that's really gotten consistent support on time has been Shovel Knight and that series has been picked up and Yacht Club games is a lot bigger than it was when it started off so it'll be interesting to see how they handle it especially with games like Stardew Valley coming to the Switch which is a very Indy niche game but very much in the vein of what would be on a Nintendo console it's kind of like Harvest Moon and a Dungeon Crawler I've been playing it non-stop for the past few days I've already clocked in like 17 hours in it which is slightly embarrassing Other than that Leak we talked about earlier Which one? The Data Mining? Yeah Data Mining one it is for Fire Emblem Mobile Yeah Remember how there were going to be a Fire Emblem game on phones? So it was some data that is in Maitomo too soon for Fire Emblem That's cool I'm actually interested in what they're going to do with Fire Emblem on phones I'm very surprised what they're doing with Super Mario Run I'm hoping it ends up being pretty good Three days Well it'll be out Yeah It'll be out by the time you get this podcast Pretty much Oh Speaking of when you get this podcast Should we tell them what's happening next year? I don't know We're going to have to rework the timing for when we record and how we record and we're going to solidify that more over the coming weeks but because of my class schedule I'm going to be taking master's courses on Monday nights from like 5.15 to 11 o'clock at night on Monday and Tuesday so there's no time for me to record during those nights and I don't want to make Nate try to record during the day I'm going to record on like a Wednesday and then push it out on a Thursday or Friday and also that gives us the opportunity to win something like this hits on a Monday night we don't have to like talk about it really quick we can just recap the week of news which would be really cool so we'll play around with that a bit we might toy with releasing this on you know Wednesday or Friday so excuse me but we'll see it just really depends on essentially for those listening we've been pretty consistent with trying to get the podcast every Wednesday this is episode whatever it is almost getting close to episode 30 like we've been really good about hitting the Wednesdays we hit them almost every time when I used to do the editing we've hit them the time when Alfred did the times that we didn't redo the technical difficulties someone didn't get a video in time to us or usually it's issue with the video version the audio version is always really easy but video version does take a lot of work and I appreciate I think a lot of our viewers and listeners especially on YouTube really appreciate the video version it gets almost as many views sometimes more views than our audio version does which is amazing that's why it sucks that we didn't have a video version last week because you will also have a viewership but that's fine that things happen it's out of our control I think it's better to release the podcast then continually delay it so we can do some fancy video stuff because we can't get our cameras working especially since we have that awesome interview which by the way if you haven't listened to it like go back listen to last week's podcast skip like the first hour the last half hour of that is an interview with the themphony themphony and Mike Greer because they did the timesend film and the album so go if you really enjoyed the animation the album go listen to the interview it's really good but yeah the Wednesday release probably doesn't happen anymore because as Alpha just said we're probably going to end up recording on Wednesdays which means we can't they don't have to do the same day releases it also gives us more time gives me more time to edit I expect the podcast to probably come out based on the current schedule we record on Wednesdays release on Wednesdays but we'll see we haven't nailed down anything because it might even be where Saturday ends up being the best day it's kind of up in the air until we get all the class stuff because I have classes too but when we get that all sorted we'll let you guys know it will probably we won't be able to let you know until like the first or second week in January when we're actually going to make the change so right now this isn't really going to affect you guys that much yeah we just want to kind of give you guys a heads up to like I know some of the podcast lately have been late well guess what that's the way it's going to be eventually we just don't know exactly which day but it still will be released that week like it'll be no later than Saturday I can guarantee that though it's not a Sunday release we're not delaying we're not recording on Wednesday to release on Monday like no that's not happening but yeah like it's just either going to be Thursday Friday or Saturday we hope you understand and appreciate we're trying to make this fit around our busy lives yeah like the reason he doesn't want to do it during the day for me yeah sure I work at the sites during the day but I have all of my kids here today which makes it really hard unless we want to make a special kid podcast Alfred you gotta get some kids give me a little time give me a few years on that one ah you can adopt then they're age ready already yeah if I had the money to do that if you had the money to do that you probably wouldn't be doing this anymore to be honest I only do this well I do this because I'm passionate about it but if I didn't make money doing this I probably wouldn't be doing it this is just a passion project for me I don't get paid at all I would still probably do the podcast but all the other stuff I do I have 400 business emails in my Zeldinformer email right now I have to answer tonight I don't want to record this podcast a little earlier than usual anyways I think that's going to wrap it up yeah I think that's all we got thanks for tuning in this week we finally got the time of it slightly below an hour and a half so that's good yeah and we got in a bunch of stuff finally got that giant email so yeah if you have any more fan topics and stuff you can always send it to podcast at Zeldinformer.com we don't get a lot of stuff sent there but it's a good that's the way to get a hold of us more directly if you get a hold of Alfred literally I'll forward it right from that email to his inbox I won't even read it if you put like Alfred in the subject because it's for him not for me for me you can email me there obviously I have a public email too but if it's podcast specific like don't send it to my business email I'm probably going to ignore it if it's podcast specific to be on I have so much other stuff going on in there I don't need that's why the podcast email exists so submit it on Twitter, Facebook, podcast female on YouTube we're at Google Plus and Tumblr too although we don't really ask for much at Google Plus and Tumblr but hey we're there maybe one time we'll randomly check it look we have 17 fan topics from Tumblr today anyways thanks for tuning in see you guys later