 Talking outside, high intensity working out. Anne founded High Intensity Training in Australia. Yes, yes. So the thing with this is the convention turned me on to a whole different way of life. Sometimes I train in that way, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I can take it a little bit easy on myself, but the diet, the fitness, the different weightlifting, the different information that I've heard through this convention specifically, he's a friend of Doug McGuff's, Dr. Doug McGuff, one of the best speeches I've ever seen at the convention. Also Drew Bae, who was one of the original guys talking about high intensity training. And I ended up training in those ways and training a whole bunch of different ways became stronger than I've ever been and laid off a little bit lately. But some interesting stuff, you're gonna go over the history of it, all the different dynamics of it. We're excited to hear about it. It's the last speech of the day. Put your thinking caps on, all that fun stuff and take it away, my man. Okay, guys, look, I just, when I was asked to do the presentation and probably just with Anthony and that, I started corresponding on different websites from America, the Body by Science website, Drew Bae's website. And Anthony started to appear on there as well and we were sort of making little different sort of chats with each other. And so I sort of got into this thing of, then eventually he said, oh, I'm coming to Australia to do the 21 convention. And I said, well, I live in Australia, I live in Sydney. And if you want to have someone to talk a bit about high intensity training, I sort of put my hand up and said I would. Basically, I sort of thought with, I teach fitness classes and courses. And I'm thinking, well, what am I gonna sort of go with you guys? People might not do much fitness. People might do a lot. Where do you fit in with it? So I sort of thought I'd sort of start a little bit of a history of sort of exercise or a bit of history of the fitness industry in Australia. A little bit about myself. And then I sort of move into a bit of the sort of history of high intensity training, which is probably one of those things that, I suppose when you get right into it, you sort of become a bit of a historian. You start to like to hear about the guys from the old days and things like that. And probably that's why I sort of give you those handouts with some of the old sort of bodybuilders from the 70s and 80s and that sort of thing. And those guys have all trained high intensity when it first started. So I thought I'd just start there. Hopefully, what is hit doesn't mean much to you or doesn't it? Hopefully by the end of my presentation, that some of you guys might start looking at high intensity training and at least understand what it means. And as opposed to maybe some other different types of training and how it is different to other styles of training that people might do. So that's what my aim is to achieve that. Hopefully that I can. I'll go through the presentation a little bit. Probably save questions to the end, if that's all right a little bit. Again, hopefully that I could sort of keep you sort of not getting too in-depth because that was the other thing I was sort of thinking of I make too technical and you might sort of not, you know, sort of might lose track of that a little bit. So plenty of questions at the end. I sort of, that's where hopefully I'll end up with a lot of it itself. So I just sort of start the presentation and say my name's Stephen Turner. So just again, so if anyone sort of forgets that and I'll start from there and we'll work our way through and I'll sort of get you to understand that to a whole high intensity sort of training, sort of process what it's all about. Okay. Just a brief history of the industry and I'm only going back here a little bit. The brief history I'm talking a bit about is my own sort of history a little bit to where I started just like you guys are now. Going to the gym, where it all started. What was it like in them days? You know what I mean? As young fellas like yourselves, that's what I sort of probably looking at a little bit. You know what I mean? So I thought, well, I could go back, you know, fitness has been there thousands and thousands of years for exercise. But just how generally developed a little bit over the last sort of 40 odd years or so probably the experiences I experienced as well going to the gym for the first time, what it was all about and a little bit of differences in how that sort of pile on. So just 1960s and 70s, bodybuilding only gyms. Does that sort of make any sense to anybody? Bodybuilding only gyms. Look, in those days, the gyms were sort of bit more the old YMCA, police citizens and youth club sort of plates only, weights all over the floor, all that sort of thing, dingy sort of rooms for a lot of stuff, you know what I mean? Guys would go in, they'd have the windows all closed and stuff and we'd be all in there sweating and sort of lifting weights. So in the sense then that that's really what the gyms were about in the 60s and 70s. Have you heard that part? I don't know, again, this is where I come sort of a bit more into it. The 70s, 80s, the Robics Boom. Anybody sort of, what I mean by the Robics Boom? The Jane Fonda, the Livy Newton-Johns. We all wore leotards, we all jumped up on the stage and done exercise to music. It was the first sort of movement where we also started having women in the gyms. So we sort of moved from just males, mainly mostly, and now we've got women coming to the gyms. So the guys in that are a bit smart, what would they do? They turn up to the Robics class and do the Robics class with the Jane Fonda Leetard, the girls with the Jane Fonda Leetard, et cetera, et cetera. So you sort of went and done those classes mainly to sort of see interaction with girls and things like that. Sort of moving through to the 80s and 90s, we sort of looked at the cardio equipment and various group exercises classes started coming about. So now instead of you going out maybe running, for example, the gyms would have a cardio, what we call cardio section, where they'd have treadmills and bikes, et cetera, et cetera. They'd have group exercise rooms and then we would move into sort of different group exercise classes, such as les mills, pump and those types of things. So those pump classes were sort of made for the women to lift weights to a bit of music. That's the les mills sort of aim was and we sort of also had guys in there as well. But that, and this is one thing I point out with a lot of people, for a lot of women, when they pointed out is actually some of those pump classes and stuff probably just more wasted time, you know what I mean? Because there's not a lot of gains and stuff. But that was another movement, another movement in the fitness industry, another big major shift as we went through into the 80s and 90s. Sort of going out in the 80s and 90s and I'm not sure if anybody of you guys have experienced this. The personal training boom started coming along the fitness first, club started opening and everyone was doing personal training sessions. It sort of moved from now you had the thing when the rich person sort of went to his dinner, I've got my personal trainer. So, you know, I've got my personal trainer. My personal trainer does this, my personal trainer does that sort of thing. So, if you weren't in the in crowd unless you had a personal trainer in that sort of, especially in those sort of 90s and a lot of the health clubs offered them but you had to pay for them as well. So, now to the present, sort of like today, to sort of call anything goes, so it types up this PT boxing, tie, throwing, kettlebells. There's a whole sort of different sort of, if you ever go to the gyms, you'll see it all happening or your personal trainers. There's all these different types of training methods. All people trying to sort of get results and things like that with the training. So, we've sort of progressed through the 60s with the old style gyms, basically owned by the bodybuilder or experienced or the guy or the owner would own the gyms. One man sort of gyms and stuff like that. And then we sort of had the functional movement. If I just move back now to fitness accreditation because as a teacher myself, I involve in crediting people for the certificate three and for fitness or people to work in the fitness industry. So, going back to the 60s and 70s, most of the gyms, the owners were, the gyms were run by either the owner or a couple of other guys in the gym. That was basically, they would operate through years and years of experience. Those guys had all these years and years of just getting in there, doing the weights. You know what I mean? Sort of, you weren't really university trained at that point, you know what I mean? Those guys just done it for the love of it, I suppose. Through the 70s and that, and just don't wanna show me age too much and things like that, but in about 1978, we had, or in the mid-70s they introduced fitness leaders as into gyms and stuff as well. So, we sort of moved into this now, having people working as gym instructors and group exercise people and that sort of thing. So, courses were just two days. We started to work in a gym, you know what I mean? That was sort of in the mid-70s. Most of that was aimed at the aerobics, group exercise classes, you know what I mean? That type of thing. Just moving the 80s, the fitness leaders that sort of started to develop a little bit more from, you know, there was more injuries were occurring to people, people were getting injured, all these high impact activities, people were jumping in that all the time. It was just so the courses started to grow and develop. We sort of moved from one owner, one two-day course, one or two-day courses, now having a course over a couple of weeks. And now, we sort of, in the 90s now, we have certificate for fitness and certificate for personal trainers. And they vary of different, variation of different length of time to do those courses and stuff like that to become, to work in the fitness industry. Everyone have enough of that part? Okay, so just hope, just trying to give you a little bit of broad range in the history of the industry. Just my own experience, instead of just, oh, I can just sort of go back a little bit for you. 1977, I'd done the physical training structure of course with Royal Australian Navy, actually down at Cerberus, down here, just down out of Melbourne. Most of that was just based on, what we worked sort of that flogging, flogging of the depth sort of attitude, you know? You just got out there and you did it and you were told to go and run 10Ks or 20Ks and you just went and done it. You know, you were told to jump and carry weights on your back and jump and that and all these things we used to do on them days, you just went and done it. That was it. You didn't have, there was no, oh, I'm not gonna do that. You just went and done it. In the 90s, or late 80s, 1990s, I got out of the Navy and I went and worked at Melbourne Jail in New South Wales. Not sure, just a little bit, you know, we guys, those people not from Australia and that. I worked at Maxon Security Jail there, teaching inmates fitness. Anybody ever sort of worked in jails? I don't know if anybody's been in jails. Okay, great experience, you know, not sort of the name people and all those sort of things, but there was some really big heavy dudes in them days. I'm talking about some monsters, you know, and guys with some really sort of bad criminal history as well, you know what I mean? So there was a bit of everyone there sort of based a lot of these guys pumping weights, getting as big as they can and they'd come and say, Steve, can you tell me about this? Can you tell me about that and ask me questions? I'd say look at the size of you, you know what I mean? Sort of me asking them. So it was a really good experience. Guys had all day to train in a sense, or a lot of them just focused on training while they were in jail. As they got out of jail, I suppose, that focus changed to drugs and you get back on the drugs and things like that. Guys that I'd seen come out like before, when they left jail, they were like monsters, six or 12 months later they'd be back in jail and they might stick because they've been on the drugs and things like that. So you see how the body can change and stuff, you know what I mean? When you really sort of, I suppose, in a sense, been in a strict environment to then having your own choice a little bit. So another great experience and now 2,000 professors, like a fitness teacher at New South Wales Pace in New South Wales, a technical adult further education. Just a little bit of my own sporting career because I thought this was going to be a little bit important because this is how I got into high-intensity training. This is part where I moved to, where I actually moved to. So a whole history, a lot of years, different training routines, groups and different things and doing a lot of different sports and things. And at some point my sporting career started to come to a bit of an end which I'll get to in a minute. My main day is a lot of endurance events. I was Australian champion in different triathlon events and things like that, you know what I mean? All my training was basically endurance, aerobic sort of base type training. The only type of, sorry, probably the only type of two reasons I done weight training in a sense was to supplement my triathlon career or my endurance events I was involved and maybe to go to gym and check the girls out at the gym as well. So at that point, even though I had a reasonably good knowledge of weight training or exercise, most of my focus was on in these endurance events. Until I got to a point where I started to get injured, I couldn't train, I was thinking, hang on a minute, I enjoyed my training, I joined the exercise. I'm not a fanatic in that sense, I enjoy the triathlons and that, but I was starting to think injuries of coming, torn calf muscles, I've got to really do something else. So I started to think about what I was going to do. So that's sort of probably just how my initiation in the high intensity training came all about. Weight training and I've done a lot of boxing in my training. So now this is just a little bit of the history of the high intensity training, where it developed and how it sort of come different to what most people were doing in that 70s period. This sort of originated in the 1970s. Guy called Arthur Jones was the founder of Nautilus. I don't know if anyone's used Nautilus equipment or trained Nautilus equipment. Went out of Vogue for a fair while and to come back into Vogue now, but he moved into this selling Nautilus equipment. So that's sort of where this high intensity training. And Arthur's suggestions to what most people were doing was really just total opposite, total opposite of what they were doing. Okay, he came onto the scene. Nobody really knew him. He'd done a bit of bodybuilding. He'd done all these other things. He was about in his fifties or something. And all of a sudden here's this guy telling everybody how to train properly. So he was the main driving force. Stories of him, he used to walk around with a gun and stuff, you know what I mean? Pistol on his hip and things. He lived in Florida, I think at that time, in D-Land, Florida. And he started this movement. Some of the guys, you got in the pictures there, which I'll mention in a minute, all originated out of this 1970s period. Okay, Casey Beata and a few of those other guys might answer in there. So Arthur found a hit, Ellington Darden. These guys have all wrote books and stuff. So again, you wanna get a little bit of information about these guys. And Jim Flanagan was another one of these originators of this high-end. There's a lot more people involved. They looked at making exercise machines. Okay, nautilus type exercise machines. So there's a reason why they looked at making exercise machines. And I'll sort of try and get into that a little bit in a minute why that sort of came about. Now, if you're just like Casey Beata was one of the most famous bodybuilders of the time. The pictures of him there. Mike Menser and Ray and brother and Sergio Libby and Frank Bane. Some of these Doreen Yates. I don't know if anyone heard of Doreen Yates. Anyone sort of blood and guts? And that has got his, you go on YouTube and that's all left there. There's really good YouTube sort of videos over him if you wanna just, and I think Doreen's a bit more of the later period too, you know what I mean? So he came a bit later in the 90s but Mr. Olympia and all those types of people win the event. Now, this is where I think I come in with the other guys and that noted authors and stuff that I sort of now started to look at, read and I start and it's trying to understand what this high-intensity trainer was all about. What did it mean? Drew Bay, Doug McGuff, John Little and John Philbin and there's many more high-intensity writers but there's some of the guys I really sort of like if you know what I mean when I'm reading stuff and trying to get some more knowledge and et cetera, et cetera. Now, Doug McGuff and John Little, 2010, wrote, or produced a book called Body by Science. I know a couple of other answers that I've read it and I don't know if anyone's ever heard that the book, Body by Science? I think in some of the YouTube videos or some of the stuff that Anthony's done before, it sort of really started to get people to think as well. Now, if I just go back to John Philbin, he wrote high-intensity, more power, more strength in a quicker time. If I could sort of just give you a couple of minutes here of my sort of initiation, as I said before, I started to get a few indiges from triathlons and stuff and I started to sort of think, well, hang on to do so. One day I picked up this book called Written by John Philbin and I started to read it and I thought, oh, okay, that sort of, you know, lifting the weight up and down, et cetera, and doing these things and doing momentary muscular failure and that. I mean, what's all this mean, you know what I mean? So I sort of started to have to teach myself it. And that's how I sort of started to learn that I started to teach myself, you know what I mean? So what I do for you sort of guys and stuff is that I teach myself and I go to tape with students and I trial it out on them and see how they handle it. So I was a bit of a, I had my own audience you know what I mean? I used to see how many of them could do it and a lot of these guys, massively strong guys just couldn't do it. Guys that trained for hours and stuff when I'd done it properly with them or, you know, as we've done in high intensity training couldn't do the exercises. And these are guys that are not small guys that come in really big and strong, you know what I mean? So I just sort of moved there but that sort of really threw them out amongst the pigeons, 12 minutes a week. How can you do 12 minutes a week? So we had sort of, how can I do 12 minutes of training a week? They sort of looked at what they called the big five and that was their basic sizes on which was the leg press or squat type exercise. Overhead press, the lap pull down chest press and said I just called them names but you can use different free weights and machines and different other variations or body weight that as well if you want to. So it sort of took us to another step. There's also Doug's got a website, Body By Science and basically from that we sort of started to look at, geez, trying to reduce this training down into sort of 12 minutes a week. I'll come back to this in a minute. Why don't I move a little bit further and I'll go back through the old high intensity training methods and we'll sort of come back through to that if that's all right. John Philbin's book. Now, this is what he said, the foundation of the high intensity training system is performing the perfect rep. Now I know Mark and even David was talking about the perfect rep. It wasn't how much you nifted or whatever else you did, it was how you did it. Okay, how you perform the perfect repetition. Everything revolved around the perfect rep so we sort of take away, minimise the momentum and maximise muscle tension. Does anybody sort of understand what I mean by that? Minimize momentum and maximise muscle tension. So all of a suddenly we're not doing the bicep curls like David showed you, sort of thing doing that. We were doing a nice and stripped in that, you know what I mean? So we'll start in the look at the form, how we did it, not what we did and that was how we actually did it. Anybody go to the gym? You got many people go to the gym? What do you see at the gym? People exercising. I'm not picking on anyone here, but you'll see a lot of different ways, won't you? And a lot of, when you sort of start looking at what the perfect rep is, you start to look and see what in the gym. A lot of bad stuff and it becomes quite noticeable and you see it very, very noticeable. When I'm teaching the guys and even the girls here, it's tight when I teach them. A lot of the girls go to the gym and a lot of the girls don't lift weights. When I take them to the gym, show them how to do the exercise correctly and properly, they're the first ones that come over and say, oh Steve, look at him, look at him, you know, look at what he's doing. You can pick it up. It's very evident once you sort of know what the perfect repetition is when you're doing your exercise. So it wasn't like I'm going to do 10 sets or something. I'm going to do perfect reps. And then you start, once you start there, you start actually then getting into this high intensity training and what it means and I'll come back to that in a minute. So the quality of the rep is far more important than the amount of weight being lifted. Yes, we do need to meet what team we use in high intensity, well, a meaningful load. We need a certain amount of weight to lift, but we don't need a weight that we're going to have to be forced to cheat on, which the other guys mentioned a little bit earlier. Now, if I just now digress back a little bit to the original high intensity, Arthur Jones and the Nordus, they went from what they call the two seconds up and four seconds down. So they'd raised the weight in two seconds, just using the bicep curl, sorry, as a bit of a demonstration, and they'd lower it in four seconds. Most people were doing a repetition in one and two seconds and most people were using their back in it. So all of a sudden now we're starting to look at the form and the speed of the repetition and trying to reduce, well, the force and we're trying to reduce the momentum. Why were we doing that for? Trying to focus on the muscle. Okay, so that's a part of that we need. So, someone else, I think it was a David, had to give it a go at 10 repetitions. I thought he must have, I don't know if you've seen this. If I just go back to it, sort of the height, or sort of, this is for 10 reps. Okay, when we do the first couple reps, we do what we sort of, I don't know if anybody's done this a little bit before, but when we lift the weight, we actually, we're at our strongest when we first lift the weight. Is that correct? Like your strength is the most freshest as possible. You're the strongest you can be at that point. What you do as those first couple reps, instead of trying to move the weight fast, you deliberately try to make them, you've got to slow the movement down. You deliberately do that. So you're actually starting to, what are you doing with your strength? You're starting to decrease your strength. So you're actually, your strength is going down, but what's not changing? What's not actually changing? The weight's not changing. The weight stays exactly the same the whole time. The weight never gets any heavier. The only thing is you get weaker. Okay, I understand that, sort of got that one. So first couple of reps, you hold back the speed. Okay, now as you move into the four and seven reps, I just put these down, you'll start to feel that you're getting a little bit more fatigue. Muscle is starting to fatigue. You're starting to lose its glycogen stores and the nutrients in the muscle and the nerve firing and that sort of things. That's what I want to go down at half a minute, sorry guys. So your strength starting to diminish a little bit. And as we said before, and I don't know how David knew it, it must have been you, you don't stop there. This is where the difference between the high intensity training is and most other styles and types of training. You don't stop when it starts to hurt. Okay, that is the point in time when you're gonna start gaining the benefits. That's the point when you're gonna have to start using this to focus on that and make what contract, make the muscle contract. So in that next couple of reps, depending on which exercise it is, those last three, that's really where you're gonna get the gain. That's where it's gonna be hard and that's where the people do high, people who stay with high intensity training go to that point where that's what we call, well, what's called momentary muscle failure. Okay, happy enough for that one? Yes, sorry. Oh, okay, good point, sorry, I should have. You try, no, you actually try to move the weight faster through your nervous system, but because you're fatigued, the weight will still probably should travel about the same speed. Yeah, so even though now you're on... Yeah, yeah, sorry, as your strength starts to diminish, okay, your intent now is to try and sort of, let's say, move it faster, but in reality, the weight should still be moving about the same speed. And that was a little bit of the difference, yeah. So it's not that we don't move the weight fast, it's just that we've got a bit weaker and we try to. And just on that, I find that's a really good sort of understanding sometimes when I'm training to sort of feel myself, hang on, I've got to try and move it a bit faster, but I know it's going to, if I move it too fast and it travels too fast, I sort of pull back a little bit, you know what I mean? But look, there's some variations on all this, and I've got to say that, sorry guys, some variations on all this. And even in the high-intensity training world, there's arguments about how fast you do it and how slow you do it. Okay, so don't worry there's even big debates there and things like that. But for me, and trying to pass on to you guys, is it's sort of controlled and not using momentum in that, you know what I mean? So, but getting to a point where you know it's going to start getting uncomfortable. But that's when you don't stop, okay? That's when you don't stop. Stop when your form breaks. Which moves to the next point. And I know this term, the real objective or when lifting weights, the focus should be on the real objective, versus what we call the assumed objective. Okay? Most people, if I would just sort of have a guest here, would see people training with the assumed objective and moving the weight. Okay? Now, what should be the, what do I mean by the real objective, the contraction of the muscle? For example, if I can use another bicep curl again, for example, I grab the weight and I don't go, oh, move it. I sort of, this is where you got to get the focus and that a little bit. This is where it's, I'll go a little bit later. I want to contract the bicep. I want the bicep contracting as opposed to moving it. So, it's sort of, it's part of the mental process you've got to sort of tune into. So, it's not, you can't just go and just throw weights around in a sense and do it in high intensity. You've got to sort of focus. So, we say the real objective versus the assumed objective. Okay? So, again, you'll see it in the gyms all the time and look, I see a heaps of people doing it, you know what I mean? So, I tune out a little bit, but when they, you know, I really focus in and when I get really fatigued, I focus more into it, you know what I mean? So, now this is, again, I'll go back to Arthur if you ever sort of want to decide to go to a bit high intensity stuff. Arthur Jones had all these quotes and things over the years. You know, he sort of spoke about, you know, he'd always have some one liner. You know what I mean? Someone had asked him something and he'd always have one line. So, I just picked a couple of these quotes I thought were quite good and hopefully then that you might help you a little bit. And I think Mark, sort of, this is what Mark alluded to a little bit as well when he was sort of train harder. Okay, in a sense. Now, harder doesn't mean to say, I don't want to sort of confuse you when I mean by harder. I don't throw the weight more, that I train harder by focusing more, I suppose, that's probably what I put. But briefer or train harder, but don't train less often. Now, when I say about the briefer and that, that was a real big difference to the old days. Well, I remember something about the bodybuilding sort of back in the 70s. Guys were doing 100 sets of bicep curl, you know what I mean? Like things like this and so, when he sort of spoke about training briefer, he didn't mean to do 100 sets. Okay, now, this is the key, I think, or second part of the key, apart from the intention that confidence may be the most important factor for the production of best training results in progress. What do I mean, does anybody, I'm just asking while we're going to sort of keep him. What do I mean by confidence? It's probably part of the intention. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. Just sorry, yeah? Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, like a positive mindset. Anybody else want to add to it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, it's a little bit all that, but if I just put a big sort of circle around it, the confidence is that training program you do is going to produce the results that you want. So you are confident of that. If you're not confident it's going to, what's going to happen? You're not going to, you're not going to sort of do it. So whenever in my confidence, and if I can just sort of use Mark again, sort of thing for, sorry, that one, he was sort of, when people, clients come to him, they're confident that what he's going to do with them is going to give them the results that they want. If they're not confident, they won't push themselves hard enough. So, oh, I'll stop, if you know what I mean. So in a roundabout way, the confidence part, that's why I say, I'm confident in high intention that you're going to give the results that I want. You know what I mean? If I focus on my muscles and stuff and do the right things and go through the process, which I'm going to come to in a minute, it's a learnt process, then I'm confident I'm going to get my results. I'm not going to be changing my whole program. We do change the program as Mark said, but I don't go and change everything. Oh, radical and I'll start again and all this. I'm confident this is going to work. And that's why I see high intention coming for myself. You know what I mean? But that's and for the rate of progress, the company program is going to work for you. Just again with the high intensity a little bit, Ellington Darden, again, he was the first person to actually write down what high intensity was. And I'm sort of going to go through a couple of these a little bit for you. Arthur was very much all over the place after Jones. He never actually wrote down really what he sort of said it and he spoke about it. He didn't actually contextualize it, what high intensity actually was. So basically what we got down to intensity, intensity of effort. OK, reality, I'll come to, sorry, I got to quote from Druitt's, I'll leave the intensity in a minute because I'm going to come to his quote in a minute. Progression. Everything should be aimed at progression. What do I mean by progression? What do I mean by progression? More weight, yep, we can progress by adding a little bit more weight. Regular adding, OK. Shorten in time between reps, yep. We, yep, sorry. Results, yep. And you want to see results as well. And I'm going to come to that again in a little bit too, so I say a little bit ahead of me there. OK, like I sort of look at progression with the weight, yes, but not so much always the weight as well as I think we sort of might have overdone the weight a little bit, but more focus in on the muscle, you know, I mean making sure the form's right but that's sort of another part. Changing the sort of pre-exhaustion type methods, I don't know if anyone's ever used those, I'll come to them in a minute actually, sorry. But yeah, so progression is maybe more reps or not more sets in a sense, but not with actually, when you start to re-progress as well because you can do too much as well. Recovery, you must have recovery between your training programs or training days or some types of recovery. Again, in most training programs, even in the hit world, they'll have different types of recovery. Some people once a week, as probably Doug said a little bit, some people a couple of times a week, some people will do three times a week. You know, I mean, I generally twice a week. I do two sort of different types of high-intensity training programs, one on Monday and one on Thursday. Because it gives me three- to four-day break between them. They're the main sessions I do as far as my resistance training goes. And most of the high-intensity guys will do something with that nature, at least twice a week. We are form, probably the hardest things to sort of explain a little bit, but form, okay, in terms of, remember this sort of thing, not doing that. Okay, doing it correctly. A few other different types of exercises where we do them, but form, and I'll come to that again, a little bit later, when we're learning the high-intensity. Duration, basically, you know, how long, 20 minutes, or how long you're doing your sets, or your training program for, and frequency, and the order of the exercise, okay? So there's order was all what's going for. Arthur used to always do the bigger muscle first, like the legs and stuff, you know what I mean? And then they'd go to the upper body. What's the biggest six, sorry, yep. I don't know, it's gonna say, what's the biggest mistake most people make when they train, and I think actually Mark Lewis is having a bit too soft. What's the biggest mistake most people will ever send about the focus? They focus on the upper body, okay, and leave the legs alone. Now, at some point in time, what'll end up probably happening a little bit is that your upper body will start, start, stop growing. The body sort of holds a proportion. It sort of tries to stay in proportion. So you really need to make sure you work your legs hard as well. And so most guys are the chicken legs, okay? Once the upper body's grown, it's hard to go back and get the legs to grow again, okay? So you need to sort of really make sure the focus is there, and the upper body will grow a bit as well, okay? It will grow in proportion. The original hit workout is prescribed by Arthur. This is Arthur's original one in 1970s. Three times per week, 30 to 45 minutes, eight to 10 exercises. Now, they've done a whole body workout, circuit style and no rest between exercises. So that was one of the original ones they put in the 1970s, and he sort of set it up as a circuit style. You'd go from one exercise straight to the next one, and you'd progress around until you finished the program. The Nautilus gyms were set up all around the world and stuff had that sort of training program when they were doing it. Now, just one of the other guys you got there, Drew Bay. Okay, Drew, when I write about hit, I especially mean progressive resistance exercise performed with a high level of intensity. Intensity is your level of effort relative to your momentary ability. What do I sort of mean by this one here? It's intensity is your level of effort to your momentary ability. So everyone can train high intensity. Everyone can, you know what I mean? It's sort of what I mean is everyone can train high intensity in a sense. Everyone could probably and may do it and not even realize it. It's probably a little key part when I'm just probably on this one here a little bit. The intensity is your level of effort relative to your momentary ability, relative to who's effort. Doesn't matter what weight you use. Okay, good. Also it's relative to you. Not relative to someone else, relative to you. So basically remember I said about the rep? Working through the set. Okay, you get right to the end and you can't move the weight. That's the sort of traditional high intensity sort of thing and you hold it isometrically for a couple of minutes or a couple of seconds, sorry. And you put it down and you've done everything your effort. The intensity there sort of is a part of that process of your momentary ability. So if you are really at the end and you're really fatigued with it, you've done everything you can as far as up to that point, okay, as far as your momentary ability. So the intensity of effort is relative to your momentary ability. What high intensity training is not? Now I sort of wanted to put that up there a little bit, but running, treadmill, running, cycling, paddling, biking, various groups. A lot of people will actually put out there, it's high intensity training or high intensity interval training. Progressive resistance training, high intensity training. That's what it is. In other words, I went back and done the sort of history of it a little bit for you. Okay, you can use a lot of high level of effort in these if you're running and that's your goal and those type of things, which was for me. Okay, you know what I mean? I like running and swimming and that sort of thing. But just in terms of it's not what we call high intensity training. Is everyone clear on that part? What I mean now is progressive resistance training. So don't get confused by some people using high intensity training outside of that. That's what the original meaning of it was and that's the way it is today. Yes, we can do a lot of high level of effort, but it's not high intensity training. Anyone have any of that part? This is sort of how I describe the six pillars of proper exercise. This is what I put on my brochures and stuff that I hand out to people, you know, training or what I'm trying to explain to them what I'm gonna do. High intensity, brief workouts, in-prequent workouts, precise record keeping. Why don't I point that one and point the others? See if anybody sort of want to have a guess. How many people go to the gym? How many people write down what they do? When they're at the gym? Okay, good, it's more than I normally get, okay? If you don't record it and don't keep track of it, you don't know if you're really progressing. You can't commit it to memory, you know what I mean? Or next time I'll go and do that and that. Key part of the whole process is recording what you do. There's different levels of record recording if you want. I just generally write down how much weight I lifted and I use the time under tension method and I write down sometimes, sometimes I write how many reps I did or sometimes how long I don't need to set for. I've done one for a minute or a minute 30 or something, I'll record them. But I can keep track of it, it's my way, I know what I'm writing down in the sense there's no one way, but you must use at least a way. And there's a few variations, but you could also go a little bit further and write down how you felt during the workout, you know what I mean? A bit more of a professional athlete type person, you know what I mean? Or someone like that. You might want to record how you slept and things like that, you know, good night's sleep, sort of thing, you know what I mean? Okay, so you can probably record them, but at least make sure you write down if it's even only briefly a brief note. Most of the people I know who get success in that other training have recorded down. That's not just by chance, okay? It's not, because you can tell them if your progression's going backwards, which can happen quite quickly. And then it can happen before you know where you're before you know where you are. Oh, all of a sudden, I'm not lifting as much, all of a sudden I'm sort of feeling weaker on that. Oh, hang on, what have you got it all written down? Okay, so I really push that to everyone I speak to, especially young students, I've taken that record, write it down, write down what you do. And nothing unnecessary, only train what you need to train. Any more training than you need is too much, okay? Any more training than you need. Benefits of HIIT, reducing fat levels, improving functionality, maintaining, has anyone sort of just heard of all those a little bit benefits? Look, most resistance and weight training benefits will be some similar. I've trained a lot of women, probably on the benefits of the job, high intensity, and their shape changes. And they're very happy. The dress size that they didn't fit in, they now fit in, you know what I mean? Girls, that's a big important thing. But basically there's a lot of benefits to strength training. A lot of benefits. And I'll just use strength training there because there's a lot of different styles of strength training, but just in high intensity, we know these things work. And I've tested it on people that the high-intensity training has worked for them. Learning HIIT, now HIIT is a learned process. I'm coming now for hopefully I'll get towards the end and hear a little bit. It's not something you can just go in and say, I'm gonna throw a few weights around today and I'm gonna do high intensity. It's a learned process. You'll have to go and either be taught by somebody, okay, or do what I did and go back and trial and error a little bit first because nobody else was doing it. Or just sort of that process and get some advice on how to construct your program, put it together, and then look at some of the different training methods. So it's not something a lot of people do, but it's a learned process. So I left those things, especially Drew's website, and if you've got it there, great website to go to. So if you follow up on here, you know what I mean, if you wanna pick up things, please go to his website and thank him for that article too, once you just go in there and say, you know, thanks for the 21 convention and I'll fight your articles or something, you know what I mean? Learn the exercise, probably basic in the sense, basic knowledge, but learn the exercises, different variations of doing exercises. Probably learn with what equipment you're using, you know what sort of equipment you're using. I don't know if some gyms have different equipment and things like that. So either what type of equipment you're using. So learn correct form, huge problem, biggest, probably mistake most of it, correct form, okay. Again, you might need some help there. A mirror is always a good handy if you wanna look in the mirror and that and check your form, but make sure you don't minimise momentum and maximise tension. Learn to handle muscular pain about stress. Does anybody sort of know what I mean by that? Learn to handle the muscular pain, I'm gonna feel about stress. Has anybody heard of the Pytal flight syndrome? Pytal flight? Get out of here, you dumba! Or you're scared or you're someone shut, you know? That's the same process your body's going through when you're actually exercising. Exercise is just a stress-related physiology parting on your body, okay. Basically what your body just feels it's under attack and it doesn't know quite what to do. So a lot of people in certain circumstances under that fight or flight will run. Other people will stay there and hold the green on, you know what I mean? In a sense this is what you're doing the same sort of thing, you know what I mean? You know after a little while that, okay, I can handle this, I can keep going. I'm not gonna have to drop the weight, I'm not gonna have, because your body will go into a bit of a shake there for a little while. Once you start getting right into it, you know what I mean? That's the safe to learn process, don't fear it. Just sort of let it happen, let the process happen. But you'll feel once you start getting into it a little bit. And it's a bit of an adrenaline rush too, actually. You know, I don't know if anyone sort of endorphins and that type of thing that happened, but that sort of takes place a little bit. Adrenaline starts firing up and that. So controlling the rep to stress response and concentrate at the event threshold. What do I mean by concentrate at the event threshold? Basically, when that last couple of reps come about, focus, concentrate. Don't let it drop away from there, okay? That's where the results will come. Now, I was just gonna sort of go through some advanced overload training techniques. So I learned to do the exercise, I've done the one set in that, and I wanna sort of, you know, take it to another level. We heard use the terms advanced overload training techniques. Force negatives. Has anybody ever heard terms for force negatives? I'm just sort of getting there a little bit, okay? Okay, so when basically someone might put a little bit extra resistance on the bar and that new lower and against a bit of resistance, okay? Force negatives a little bit, and some of these overload techniques are a little bit, are limiting a little bit if you need either someone to do them with, you know what I mean? Or you need a partner. Sometimes a little bit harder to do them by yourself. But just generally speaking, assisted positives, your partner, remember I said you might give that last couple reps and you go, oh, shit, you know what I mean? They might just give you a little bit of assistance at that point to raise the weight, okay? So these are some of the term breakdowns. Again, come to a moment, we must go failure. I do these ones on machines, and probably I'm doing them because you can change the weight really quickly. You gotta reduce the weight, and then just do them again, you know what I mean? A little similar to maybe what some people call drop sets or something, so it is a little different, but it's a variation of that one. But if you're doing it with plates and stuff, you gotta sort of get them off and things like that, you know what I mean? But still doing, and I find them quite good for, let pull down some really good ones, seated rows, I think. The pre and post exhaust or that, does anybody know pre-exhaust and post-exhaust method? It's a little similar, not quite the same. I'll give you an example, just to see if anyone's ever used them pre and post exhaust. So for example, I'm gonna wanna target the lat, so for example, I do a single joint exercise, like a lat straight arm pull down, I pull it down, so that sort of, but my arms are resting, and then I do a lat pull down itself. So that's sort of pre-exhaust and the lat by doing a single one, then using all the other muscles to do a little bit further. And basically the post-exhaust is the opposite, around if you know what I mean? Yes, so you'll do the pull down and then do the straight arm. So a few of those methods that are quite good, and again, once you start playing around with some of these methods and stuff and that, you know what I mean? You really get into sort of trial and error and a bit in you, you know, you get sort of a bit hyped up after a while to see which one you can do it. Multiple sets, 10, 8, 6, and there was... So the 10, 8, 6 method, the big difference there that most people do, when you're doing the 10, 8, 6, is you might do your trial for 10 reps, but then you actually increase the weight, and you should only get eight. Then you'll increase the weight again by about 10% for example, and then you might just get down to six. So you're actually decreasing the reps, but increasing the weight, where most people do the opposite way around. They decrease the weight and increase the rep. You really want a good hard workout when you get into it, that's a good one. Just sort of getting along, yeah, sort of. Oh, one and a half, sorry, yeah, sorry. Okay, I'll go back there. When you're doing, say for example, I'm doing the curls and I do a full range, come the half way and down or something. It's a little similar to the 21s, you know what I mean? Like the matrix system method, but you do them at the last couple of reps when you're really tired, you know what I mean? The moment of muscle failure is happening. Yeah, just do your set like your eight or 10 reps first, and if you do them right, then just that last two, you'll do one and a half then, or one and a half move. Yeah, they're a good one, especially on some bicep curls and a few other exercises. Hit isn't, quote it from Drew, is hit dangerous. No, not really. It's not dangerous if you do it correctly. It's probably one of the key things. Any exercise program is dangerous if you don't do it correctly anyway, so. Force is the product of mass and acceleration. Is training to fail you dangerous? No, because really at that point you can't do any more damage because you've decreased the strength. You've actually, as long as you're not using momentum, you've decreased, you've reduced all the force factors. So you still can do it. You've just decreased your strength down. As long as you keep everything consistent. Focus on your muscles, not the numbers. Remember I said so, even though we might be aiming for a number of reps, like I'm going to aim for 10, my focus is on the muscles, okay? So my, still my focus is on the muscles. That after a while, it'll come, it will come. You know what I mean? The reps now it'll come after a while. Is it only for beginners? No, ensure a breaking period for trainees. Now, quite often in most gyms, and this week I'll be very careful, trainees and stuff they'll take in and they'll flog you to their first training session and you can't walk. No, my intention to do it properly requires a breaking period. Does anybody know what I mean by breaking period? Well, look, it doesn't quite have to be that long, but usually two or three weeks of just easy stuff if you know what I mean. So you won't quite go that must be a failure. There was some variations of doing it, but generally speaking and different body types will require for a bit more sort of thinner. You know, you might need a longer period. You might need a period where you're actually, for the thinner guy, we actually start putting weight on. So you might keep it at low intensity a bit till you actually start putting some size on. Then you might move to the next stage in the real high intensity. If you're a little bit more overweight or something, et cetera, you might do higher reps, do a bit more reps, you know what I mean? And keep it low. So instead of doing 10, you might do 20. So there's a little bit of variation just on the size. So, must. If anyone goes in to flog you to death, you guys, especially young guys, don't do it. There's some really bad instances of people being really sort of rabdo myelias and I think Drew's got a good article on his website about that one. That's really when you really got some, you know, end up in hospital. People end up morphine and all that sort of stuff. Now, I thought we've been young guys and stuff. Has anybody heard of the term muscle dysmorphia? You have, have you? Sometimes they have that widget, sorry. Sorry, I was just, I think, been in the industry and as I said, like, you know, teaching people, this is one of the worst issues and what I think we deal with. You get caught up in the obsession, I suppose, if you want to put it that way. Training or exercise does not have to be an obsession. Okay, you can get good results. Remember the confidence in your program? Okay, you get caught up into this and this is a mental disorder and it's a recognized one. So I'm really sort of preaching this part to you guys because I'm sort of now looking at young fellas and thinking it's so easy to get caught in the trap. You go to the gyms and stuff and you see all the people prancing around and all this sort of thing and check the girls out. But other than that, you see a lot of things, you know, the bad things. And my talking about experience here, not happening to me, but I'm talking about experience I've seen that happened to young guys. Like, one young guy in my class a couple of years ago told him not to do it. Warning. They said he's going to get on the steroids. You know what I mean? I said, don't do it. Anyway, in six months, 11 kilos of weight he put on. But it was all fat. I know Mark did about measurements. I did skin pole measurements and that. We've done them all. He just blowed it up. Thank God he got off the drugs and stuff. The steroids, he looks quite good now, you know what I mean? But don't go down that path and don't get caught up into this muck or this morpher. And that's what I said, I've had many young guys get caught out with that. Fitness centers. Okay, talking about dating and that. What's the other good thing about going to the gym? What else can you do? Talk to who? Social side of things there with the girls and that. All right. Look, the gyms are a good atmosphere, as I said, something or something like that. But us guys, high intensity, we just focus on our training. We don't focus on anything else, you know what I mean? Sort of we just all one way and straight minded. But if you want to sort of other encouragements to go to the gym, you might sort of think a little bit about the social aspect of it. And yeah, there's that aspect of that as well. So, void exercise angst. Does anybody know what I mean by that? A void exercise angst? No, no, no, no. Yeah, the negative, yeah, exactly. I've got to go to the gym and try and look, if I don't go and train in the gym today and tomorrow night, if I don't go tomorrow, look, I've got to go and do, you know, I get it all the time, because I'm in there with the young guys. I've just got to go and do me back. I've just, okay, that's fine. That's exercise angst. That's mental thing, not physical physiology. So if you're going to do it, just be a little careful. You don't get caught up in having a fight. Once you write your program down and write everything down, you just look at it the next time you come, you know what I mean, and you focus on other things you like. Void drug use, which I said before, I'll just say that as in the sense of the general sense as well that. Thanks. And we've got a few minutes for a few questions. I've probably talked a lot. Hopefully I haven't sort of, you know, and as I said, it is a learned process. It's not going to be something that you will do in learning five minutes, but I hope you sort of do move towards that way. And I said, I'm sort of really open to the questions now because I really want to sort of you to ask me and I'll, you know, do this one best to explain or we'll explain it to you. So we've covered a whole lot of territory, but yes, sorry, yep. Yeah, yeah, yes, thank you. Hi, Steven, thanks for the talk. Just got a question. How do you know if your work's a specific muscle group, what the maximum weight, like, that you can lift? Okay, remember, if I just go back to the form, okay, now this is where, you know, this is, I suppose, my best way of explaining it. If the form breaks, I've got too much weight. Also, maybe we'll use time under tension method. We're aiming for a certain time we want to do it, like you need to get used to it later, but if I'm doing a seven second rep, okay, and I want to do 10 reps, then I've got to get like 70 seconds, you know what I mean? So if I can't get that far, so I might be trying to say a bit more endurance or something, I might need to reduce the weight a little bit, but definitely form. And look, sometimes, and I've done this lately because I'm just probably reevaluating myself a little bit. I'm reevaluating the form. For a little while, I'd reduced the weights a little bit and I went back and really focused on the form to make sure I was doing it correctly, you know what I mean? So it's a little trial and error, but definitely your form will sort of determine one factor and maybe what your goal is is sort of going to determine the other factor. But as I said, it was really good going back drop, reducing the weight and just contracting the muscle. And, you know, so does that sort of answer the question? So, and look, if you can still handle it, go up and wait and probably don't make the jumps too big either. I just want to ask before you had a slide up, the 12-minute strength training. The body by science one, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you elaborate on that a bit? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Glad you found out that. Look, again, probably it was one of the, well, Doug McGuffins, when they wrote body by science. Basically what they've done is they worked on about two minutes per exercise and per muscle group. So five, two minutes on an exercise, for example, is 10. Then a few seconds or something while you change it didn't stop between the exercise. Okay, so you went straight from, and it's whole body workout, okay, in the one exercise. But if you look at all the muscles you've targeted, you've targeted every of the major muscle groups in the body for the exercise. Like the legs, hips and knees and that. They're using leg pressure squats. Your back has got your arms as well, you know what I mean? It's like you're pulling with your biceps and that. Yes, Frank. When you say strength training, you're talking about the one to three rep range or? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Or you're just talking about a general circuit. It's like a general circuit. Now, again, Doug, sorry, he was using a super slow method, which is 10 seconds up and 10 seconds down. So you're doing about, if you look at rep range, and that's a set of tempo and that's about four or five reps. But each rep's very slow. There's no momentum whatsoever. Honestly, when you do it properly, it is brutally hard. But you won't do it in the sense, first up, it's going to take you a little while to get your weight sorted out, you know what I mean? And no, exactly. Look, if you try to do it on a commercial gym, you'll find it hard because you won't be able to get to the next equipment. You know what I mean, please, the equipment. But it's what, when we recruit muscle fibers, we recruit them in a minority fashion. This is sequential. You can trial this yourself anyway. It's quite easy. Because when you do the first couple reps, you might recruit a small percentage of what we call slow-proceding fibers. As you progress through the set, you should start asking your muscles to recruit more fibers. As you're getting, and you'll feel this deep burning sensation down in the muscle, and as the fibers start to sort of get, some fibers will be dropping out and some fibers will be being picked up. And that's how we sequentially and physiologically recruit or use muscle fibers. So by the time you sort of move to the end of the set, you've worked every fiber. So they've worked from the slow-proceding, it's in the back of your body by size, which is the first of the fibers you use. You work your intermediate-proceding, which is what most of us use anyway, it's in the middle, and then you actually work down towards these fast-proceding. So the slow-proceding ones we use quite often. Every day, you're using them now. You just use them, you know what I mean? The intermediate ones, you probably use it a little bit when we've got to walk upstairs or something like that, you know what I mean? But if you use those really deep fibers, those fast-proceding fibers, requires a hell of a lot of effort. And you'll know when you get them, as I say to all one people, you know when you get the fibers because you'll just feel that it's done, it's done, it's all there. If you're not getting them, you're not quite got it right, you know what I mean? So you've done everything, as far as the muscle is as recruiting sequential fibers with sequential fibers, from smaller to larger. And as Doug wrote in his book, people won't believe it, but there's people making some great progress on the turf. But he doesn't always, he changes his program, everyone changes. We don't always do that. Just saying, but if you look at what you need to do, basically, bang, I'll give you a workout one day. Cheers to the speech, it's really good, very informative. If I wanted to train for speed, will it still be beneficial or should I be doing something else? No, no, no, no, no. It's the same sort of... Is it working the fast switch muscle fibers? Yeah, exactly the same. If you work through all the fibers in the same orderly fashion, you'll recruit them. Now, when you talk about speed, and this is what we talk about in high intensity training sort of world, you're not, are you talking about your speed for sport? For sport, yeah. You practice that sport and you practice it fast. There's no exercise that will help with that speed of movement. So you practice the skill and you practice that getting faster. You practice, do your strength training to get yourself as strong as you possibly can to actually be able to undertake that sport. So just practice trying fast. Look, you'll find a few variations again, but here's what I hope that is. Do you believe HIT is the best sort of training method for a bodybuilder? The reason I ask is because I've actually seen and read Doug McGuff's book. And he's not really the most biggest guy out. Look, that's a really good question. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because look, I suppose in a sense, look, I'm not the biggest muscleist guy. I'm nearly 60, you know what I mean? I'm only too many 60 year old as long as me. When I go to the gym, I look twice as much as most 20 year old. They don't even realize how much I'm lifting until they see what's on the bar. We sort of talk about genetics a little bit, you know what I mean? Now, if you look at KT Biata, you know what I mean? There's one of his. Now, KT says they were doing a bit different in the old days than the 70s from the Big Five. And I will admit, probably the Big Five won't make you that massive if you don't know me. It'll make you strong. But you probably, when you go into a bodybuilder, you're gonna have to probably do some specialization of other muscle groups. Well, that's right, like calves, for instance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you won't get that from the Big Five. No, no, no, no. You'll probably have to do some specialization. So, while we talk about the Big Five, sorry, is that core sort of group of exercises, and then you can come off that. Look, when I do my program, I do about 10 or 12 exercises, you know what I mean? And I do single-join exercises, things like that. So you isolate certain muscle groups, yeah. Yeah, I isolate certain muscles, yeah. Okay. But I don't do it all the time either. But yeah, sorry. Sorry, hogging your microphone in. How do you grow calves? Well, calf raises, I know a guy that's very big, very short, but very big. Yeah. And he's grown his chest, his calves are natural. But supposedly, well, he doesn't lose it. No, he doesn't train. And the one thing he can't grow is his calves. Okay, there's a couple of little different things here, and we go about the genetics now, and there's muscle lengths and muscle belly we talk about in the high intensity world of lengths. A lot of guys had, if you look at even those guys there, they all had different sized calves, you know what I mean? Now, so each one calf can only grow at a certain length, you know what I mean? I'll give you a quick test in one sec to do, but remember I said that if I would look that he's probably wetting quite a sense that it's done all this and not done the legs, you know what I mean? Big, big quads, just the calves, yeah. Look at the insertion points of the calves, you know what I mean? But if you simply want to do a genetic test of how big your biceps can grow, we can do it quite easy. If everyone just one minute or half a second grabs their arm like this, just like that, put it like that, put two fingers in here or put a couple of fingers in here, I guarantee there'll be some people who get two or three fingers in, I guarantee there'll be some who can only get one finger in. So all those people with different bicep lengths, their bicep will only grow to one size, they'll all get shaped differently. Ah, well, you can't, no, you can't. The shape will come a little differently in that term, but you can look, it's a simple test site to see where the tendon crosses over in the bicep, and we'll all have different sort of distances there. So all our muscle belly lengths will be different, and they'll all shape differently regardless of what style and type of training we're doing, if you know what I mean, for the bicep. So I'll do my bicep, we, perfect example. Guys in the gym that do both the same program, look at them, totally different shapes, because this is a genetic factor that we've been going through, and that's another whole sort of part of it. But some of those guys, even though, and like guys, the old bodybuilders, the guys there, like Casey and them, other guys won titles in that, because they all had different shapes. And one of the things they said in the old days, so Ellington Darden's book, he said, if you cut the head off all them old guy bodybuilders, you'd know who they were. You go and look at the guys these days, and you cut the head off. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You wouldn't know which one was which. They all looked the same. They all had differences about it, you know what I mean? They all had a different sort of shape in you. Look at Sergio Olivia, you know what I mean? His whole bicep, he couldn't close his art, he couldn't close his, flex his bicep any further than that. You know what I mean? So for the bicep, look at him over here. So you've got all those genetic factors, and yeah, so it's probably another story we're through, but his carbs, if you look at his carbs, I'm sure. All right, let's give it up guys. Awesome speech.