 We don't like it How do you feel free food accident, you know, I would deal with all the free eatings We have a pot bigger freezers That was a thing people people who hunt and then like you know have a giant freezer in the garage for Free eatin laser months grew up grew up hunting deer and rabbit. I never liked deer. I tried it It's venison. Yeah, it's it's too much for me. It's too metallic. I just don't like that You have to like you have to like the gamey. You have to yeah, and I don't have y'all tried horse No, no Pretty sure my dog has however, come on you all have friends lives on yeah, you've had horse Well, you know it depends like is it like like where's the horse from they do from a farm or is it from like a racetrack? I don't know. I've tried horse sashimi in Japan Very few horses in the US are bred for human consumption So if they're bred for anything else, they generally have a lot of medications injected into them Which aren't healthy for your escort, you know steroids first, you know horses or race horses and stuff like that. Oh, yeah Oh, the French are fond of horses I was referring to the scandal. Oh the one from the Irish butcher butcher Yeah, that was horse meat showing up in frozen food and frozen beef Had horse meat in it particularly the frozen lasagna. I remember. Ah, so so the consensus is we should all be vegetarian After this conversation it is You know, I avoid eating a lot of red meat. I mostly eat chicken. I love red meat You should eat more fish You know, but I was reading that oily. I read the while ago Sustainable than fish or beef, but it's not about sustainability. It was about your personal health On that case I wouldn't doesn't give you the omega-3 oils that reduce your risk of heart disease you toss and run Maybe we should just start doing a tech show Maybe we should maybe we should that's a fine idea Roger check. That's funny. All right. You guys ready ready Here we hey, that's Patrick's line here. Oh We're starting with you Sarah Lane ready Yes, here we go three two Thank you to everyone who supports daily tech news show directly to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash supports This is the daily tech news for Friday July 27 2018 from Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt and from studio feelin I am Sarah Lane and from studio hack 5. I am Shannon Morse also joining us for the round table today Very happy to have back with us Rob D'Amillo CTO of nimble collective. How's it going Rob? It's good I'm not in a studio, but at San Francisco Yeah They're all you call it a studio. You've got a head you got a headset on you got a laptop your streaming It's studio That's true. That's actually the message of our company. Just pop up a studio. There you go. See you're on brand even Also with us, of course, we're very happy to have back our producer Roger Chang Roger. We missed you desperately yesterday I'm not even joking. Oh Yeah, trying to host the show and do the screens was that never works a nightmare on my brain So, yes, we're very happy to have Roger back and it's our round table show This is the show we do once a month where we expand the regular show into full-fledged roundtable discussion Do a full hour of these discussions with all of us and while all of our topics cover the news of the day We will still start with a few tech things you should know Movie passes service was unable to process ticket requests on Thursday. Why well Movie pass hadn't paid the company that processes its payments parent company Helios and Matheson borrowed six million dollars to pay That company and got everything working again. However Technical issues were blamed for continued outages on Friday and this loan is half due August 1st with the total due August 5th It's not looking good. I'm sorry Twitter reported monthly active users fell by one million as it removed bots and spam and failed to attract new users Twitter says the user numbers will continue to fall this year because of both of those things Twitter says It's prioritizing cleaning up the platform over near-term product improvements that could drive up usage Twitter's daily active users were up 11% though That's the seventh quarter of a daily active user growth Twitter also reported its third straight quarter of positive income at a hundred million dollars And for the first time overseas revenue contributed the majority of Twitter's ad sales Telegram added a feature called passport which it's called it calls its phase two of its telegram login project So a user can upload their ID to telegram storage It's protected then by end-to-end encryption and then a website that requires an ID could implement telegram passport support instead of requiring an Upload of their own e-payments is one of the first to support this new feature And Google updated its Play Store app submission guidelines It now explicitly bans apps that appeal to children but contain adult themes apps that facilitate the sales of explosives firearms Ammunitions or firearm accessories apps that are themselves cryptocurrency miners Google also now bans apps with repetitive content in order to stop multiple versions made from templates and apps that are primarily made of ads As well as apps that intentionally mislead users LinkedIn added the ability to send contacts up to a one-minute voice message That's on its iOS and Android app Messages can be played back on the website as well if you receive one as well as the apps Finally a Wilmington Delaware jury awarded IBM 83.5 million dollars in cash not coupons after finding the group on infringed for of IBM's e-commerce patents Other companies had already paid IBM a license to use IBM owns more than 45,000 patents an IP Licensing revenue brought the company one point one nine billion dollars back in 2017 Group on's legal defense argued that IBM never used the patents and wanted to extract money from other companies But that didn't work for that jury so possible appeals coming, but for now IBM beats Groupon Alright, let's get into the round table discussion Sarah. Let's do it and Shannon We're gonna start with you. This is the topic that we've covered on DTNS already this week the idea that Google said Hey physical keys are working out for us. Our employees aren't getting fished by the way We have one of our own But the idea of physical keys being the most reliable way to make sure that you're not vulnerable to attacks is Something that we're hearing more and more about so What are your initial thoughts? Yeah, so I have a lot of thoughts on this just because you know from my my security background I've always been really a big proponent of getting out physical security keys and The big business that's really been behind this as far as Fido goes and you too F has always been Ubico with their Yubi key So now we're seeing this Google one And we've also seen kind of a difference in opinion between Yubico and Google as far as Bluetooth is concerned But it's also kind of interesting seeing Google come out with their own just in particular Because you because how it has been the most popular one on the market So I really just wanted to touch base on like why these are so important and why they exist in the first place because a lot of people still don't use them as well as if we Think for consideration if they're actually going to get adopted by a wider audience And if Bluetooth itself is going to be a secure option for most people so are They proposing that these keys are for consumers or for businesses. What's the what's there? They're starting selling them to businesses now, but they say they will make them available for consumers Soon yeah, so interestingly it's going to be available in a couple of different bundles So they're doing the USB and Bluetooth versions of the key It's called the Titan security key and it's going to cost 50 bucks But if you want to buy them separately you can just get the USB version for like $20 or the Bluetooth version for 25 bucks Now in my experience working, you know going to DEF CON for example in like two weeks We've always seen Bluetooth hacks. We've seen BLE hacks We've seen Bluetooth 4.0 hacks and this is really really common And it was one of the main reasons why I always suggest that you know a headphone jack should still exist on a phone for example so seeing Ubicos For example, they're reply to this Ubico actually said that They had started initiating using bluetooth for physical keys However, and they also contributed to some of the development for the u2f standards with BLE But they decided against it most mostly just because of security usability and durability So they said that the security assurance levels were not as good as nfc and physical usb because Obviously physical usb is going to be the most secure option because there is no wireless protocol happening between the device and your laptop for example But also because it requires batteries and pairing that could offer poor user experience Which would likely turn off consumers in the long run if they wanted to get more people interested in this So seeing that google has decided to go ahead and go with bluetooth for their security key even though These hacks are quite prominent with that protocol is in my opinion kind of unassuring And I personally would want to stay with a key that does not offer bluetooth Just so I don't even have that factor even remotely capable for a hack in any of my devices So so they probably I mean It's not just The bluetooth protocol right they probably have Security protocols that either end they're locking people out. So it's it's more secure than like your fitbit I would hope so they they did state that they have firmware built into these security keys That's supposed to implement some kind of security on top of there Of course We don't know exactly what all of that security is that's going into these physical keys But it is run on on top of that same u2f Implementation those same kind of standards as the the phyto alliance currently has So hopefully they're secure But I do worry a little bit that like at a coming defcon for example We might see a hack happen with one of these google security tokens It's completely possible and it's not outside of A current thought process that these things could be a possibility in the future Yeah, and and it's this is the debate between like convenience versus ultimate security Exactly right going through the hassle of like plugging something in a usb port like that's a hassle like animals You know playing through the usb port But yeah, that's kind of interesting Go ahead. Do you go offers an nfc version? I mean and that's Pretty secure so you can have the convenience and the security. I'm not sure why google decided to go with bluetooth You leave a dongle in your pocket Right, it's very odd. You still have to click the button Yeah, you do still have to click some kind of button or give it some kind of assurance that you have that physical token within your your being with on your person in some sense Or plugged into your computer if you're just straight up using usb instead So why they included bluetooth? I'm not quite sure as well I would much prefer that they just Include usb and maybe nfc as well since those protocols are already implemented in so many other physical security tokens and we know that they are much more secure Now on that front as well I do wonder if these are going to end up getting adopted by a wider range of an audience now that google has Implemented their own because while I know of the ubico name and that's the most popular one within like the security community A lot of people don't use physical tokens outside of the security community because they don't know that they exist So so given that google this huge popular name They have you know google homes all over the place and everything like that now they exist And they're a household brand a household name I am curious if that's going to help more people adopt this kind of security factor as opposed to using sms for two-factor authentication or applications for two-factor authentication because neither of those is as secure as a physical token Well and with all the data breaches that have happened in the enterprise over the years and and and will continue to I can Absolutely see why a come a large company like google where there are security measures and people who are interested in what might be going on behind the scenes And lots of other companies why an it department might be like you got to do this everybody Sorry, don't lose your and if you do we'll figure it out But it does it does really kind of 180 this whole trend that consumers have been Enjoying and hoping to enjoy more myself one of them to like get rid of the wallets because everything's digital And that whole idea of not having things to lose on your person. Yeah, that's so true I mean I have lost my keychain before so if I had a u2f token on my keychain I would have lost that at the same time, but luckily I wasn't using it quite yet I haven't lost my keychain since then because I protect it much better now, but Usually what you find is like with a two-factor authentication application on your phone That's more likely to get stolen because people see a phone and they think like that's valuable That would be a good thing to steal When they see a key on a keychain or a little token like a little flash drive or something That's not as likely to get stolen. So of course you look at it that way You think well, they might be a little bit more secure in that sense They're also air gapped in a sense as well So you can't hack a physical key like that unless you have that bluetooth turned on maybe Well, and I think that's worth pointing out too that Shannon works in the rarefied air of Of you know trying to get to as close to zero risk as possible For folks out there using text messaging as their second factor This bluetooth dongle is way more secure Than that. So, you know, it's it's all where you are on the gradient, right? Shannon's rightly comparing it to NFC or usb as when she says it's not as secure It's still more secure than all the other options. It's actually probably I don't know Shannon. Do you think it's more secure than an authenticator app because that can be fished Whereas the bluetooth would have to be intercepted and I feel like that's all Yeah, yeah, exactly. You're exactly right with that The the other thing that occurs to me is if they get The bluetooth side secure and it does work on a dongle Um processes are fast enough on the phone and there's a there's a fingerprint ID on the phone I I would imagine that google's end game and probably the reason they have bluetooth is to move the whole thing to the phone I I just wonder why they aren't and maybe they are and we just haven't seen it I'm willing to accept that but I'm I'm wondering why there isn't More documentation about the bluetooth implementation. Maybe it's on the phytosite And I just assume anybody who's really cares about it will go find it But but usually when you put out something like this you you make it fully auditable And you say like this is what we're doing in case you want to poke holes in it This is why we think it's super secure and I Shannon I it doesn't sound like either one of us have seen that from google on the bluetooth side I haven't and I would love to see more documentation on that even just some Clarification from google as far as what kind of bluetooth implementation they're choosing to use because For example bluetooth 5.0 is more secure than bluetooth 4.0 now We do know that it's using bl e But I want more information than just telling me that it's bl e because you know They they've built some standards on top of that and I would like to know if they're using all of those standards But it would be interesting if it got built into the phone. Let's let's let's jump to the idea that like okay Let's say they've secured this Yeah, it's getting really close to steve gibson's squirrel situation You know you need to explain that to me I I don't think I could explain it off the top of my head right now But the idea is you have authentication which only requires your device. You can do it all on the device Yeah, yeah, that would be amazing and it would it would give so many people so much more convenience than what we currently have You know, I I still have A headache trying to get anybody in my friends and family to actually implement two factor authentication on their accounts Unless it's forced by the company that they're signing up with if it's not forced They're not going to do it because they just look at it and think oh no, that's that's too much work I don't want to put in a code every single time I log in I'm just like well you're putting in your password already Come out as well So how many how many android users are out there in this group? I I do I do multi-use. I use ios and android. So they've gotten pretty good at uh when you're doing two factor authentication They've gotten pretty good at just you look at your phone or you look at your android watching touch a button Yeah, right hands and I can see them taking the secure measures that they're doing with this utf dongle And moving it to a phone using surgery in the phone and using using bio identification on the phone to make sure that You're trying to get access to this website or application. You have your device on you and you are you Like those are really the three things that you need and they just have to secure all the pathways between them Although sometimes security is like I hate to admit this but i'm currently locked out of my one password account because I can't remember my master pass because I didn't write it down somewhere and put it in a drawer and it's like Darn near impossible to get back in there are lots of like. Yes, exactly Like there's like tutorials online that lead you nowhere And so I'm like, all right, I'll just change all my passwords and start over now. I you know because it's like it was Supposed to be human proof, but it human proved me out of my own Well, and that's what fido's overriding mission is fight people don't know fido is a multi-company effort It's a it's it's not owned by google. It's not a single company And the idea is to come up with a system that's more secure than passwords, but easier to use for people Yeah, fido's an alliance of companies and they're all they're all trying to work towards the same thing And they're trying to make the general populace more secure by adding this kind of convenience with these physical tokens, for example As an option for people And I think that they're really going in the right direction But there's still a lot of like education that we need to get out there as far as how these things work And why they're better than sms text messaging and stuff like that Because if you don't know like your sms phone number It could be cloned on a second sim card by social engineering your phone carrier And it's happened multiple times not just to like journalists, which of course they've Written stories about their their experiences, but also like normal day-to-day people that aren't in a public eye So it's kind of a scary thing if you think about it Like if you have a stalker or if you have some kind of enemy in school or something like that That knows your phone number and can social engineer that information Then you run that possibility of having your your sim Just cloned to a second device and getting all of those sms Two-factor authentication codes sent to that second device instead of your phone And then other people could log into your accounts And that's really one of the biggest things that the biggest proponents that they're trying to fight against is the Abilities for you know attackers to target people and be able to run these kind of attacks against them And I props to fido for you know fighting this hard fight But there's still a lot of work that needs to be done How does fido connect with the rsa does does it at all or? I don't think so But i'll have to check on that for you because the rsa is also it's another alliance that that and they try doing this Um in the late 90s I want to say early 2000s with with credit card devices that were essentially two-factor authentications like we have on the phone right now Yeah, yeah, I remember that And then rsa got hacked too Uh-huh Which by the way is interesting because I I don't you guys correct me if i'm wrong Well, I don't think google has been hacked ever. Is that true? Um, I would never want to say never like that. I don't I don't think they I might be wrong But I I know that the drive drive and photo systems have not I know that I'm sure they have been hacked Because they're involved in so many different things that there must be some low level system at some point Especially earlier than the days, you know in the early 2000s, but but yeah I mean your your point can still be well made you rarely When have you heard of google breach? In the news and and they made a big deal earlier this week before they announced that they were selling the keys that Implementing keys in their company reduced phishing attacks inside to zero which implies that there were phishing There there there were successful phishing attacks inside google before that's the they just didn't make in public Good point. So I have a question for y'all and yes, I said y'all again Um, do you currently use a physical token for a two-factor authentication to use 2fa at all? What do you what do you use? Use a physical token myself, but I use an app as a backup I use an app only so I've got well I've got two apps But I I use 2f 2fa and I use uh google authenticator and I forgot the other but yeah, I use two of them I use ubeco Uh, ube key uh for certain things that I I really care about I mean, I you know, it's all a matter of thing, but I log in on devices that don't have a usb slot quite often, right? Uh, and and so I I generally rely on the authenticator app I don't use aughty even though I've heard aughty is great Because the big advantage using aughty is that aughty will store your one-time codes in the cloud and I feel like well, that's kind of Against the point. I'm sure aughty is very secure about it But no one can get my code from the cloud if it's not in the cloud So authenticators where I go I use aughty. Oh Do you use storage in the cloud? I do. Yeah. Okay. I know It's one convenience that I have chosen to take Well that uh that light jazz music uh from the andrielen trio Reminds us that it is time to move to the next topic and uh, this one's a fun one Rob, we want to talk about a liquid water on mars. Yeah, this this just goes back to to my old life, but The other week there was a there the the isa folks the european space agency Announced that they completed a seven-year study And had determined that there is actually Water underneath the substrate in mars at the south pole at the very least And they did this through their mars mars explorer Our mars express sorry, so Which is an orbiter, right? It's an orbiter. Yeah, they launched mars express in 2003. I think So it's been up there for a long time and It has one of the instruments that it has on there is is something called marsis, which is uh mars advanced radar for subsurface and ionospheric sounding I think is what it stands for And its whole purpose in life was to look underneath the substrate It's just looking for essentially geographic signatures of things that that may be of interest to future explorers of mars And it suddenly occurred to them that if they had reduced the resolution a little bit on the their side imaging radar their The star system was the the uh synthetic aperture radar That they could get down to the resolution where they could detect Substrate water and so they did that but it took them a long time that so NASA has a long history of updating firmware on spacecraft while they're in mission And it's very like a bad idea very very frightening. I went on when I was working in jet propulsion. We were on Voyager was was one of our our programs and Before I arrived they had done this whole thing where they they they turned Voyager into something that could make it all the way up to Uranus Which it was never designed to do and they did that through a firmware upgrade And so you know they've got everyone checking the code and they check the code twice and you know three times four times And then there's at one moment where somebody punches a button and then they wait, you know, 22 minutes with Constantly spacecraft and spacecraft reboots and hopefully they hear from it again. They do this a lot Um, and they did it. I don't even want to do that with my router in my oh, no. No, yeah I mean I do but yeah My dev ops director here does things on the phone all the time and I'm like, wow, okay So anyway, so they did this they did this with the marces. Um, and they reduced They reduced the resolution path and they took a couple swipes over the south pole and and sure enough Just off to the southwest I think of the northwest of the of the pole They got water signatures back And to um, uh synthetic aperture radar and I should I should probably explain what that is there there are several types of radars that are employed on aircraft and and uh cars now and spacecraft and uh synthetic aperture radar Just basically means that they're using the motion of the spacecraft or of the aircraft to create a virtual lens for the radar beam So typical radar you send out a signal either light or sound or or radio waves and it bounces its back and it gets picked up Uh, and then you you build up an image off of that in the case of sar You're using a moving spacecraft or a moving, um airplane to essentially shoot a beam and then catch it So you shoot a beam in one direction and then you know what the the incidence angle is supposed to be and you Spacecraft keeps moving you catch it at the other end and you effectively formed a large radar dish And you do that in several dozen sweeps In the area that you want to take a look at something. Um, there's some there's some complex math that shows how what your resolution is based off of Uh, how fast the spacecraft's moving and all that other happy stuff but, uh, so they did that and and they they they changed marces so that it had a smaller Smaller level of resolution and they got back a signature of water about a mile underneath the surface and What that looks like on a radar beam? is nothing so if You think of radar as reflecting off of an object and the type of scattering that you get back Tells you information about what it just bounced off of Water is absorbent To star and so you don't get a signal back And so if you hit water you get black, right? And what uh, what rogers got up on the screen here is is essentially false color So what's blue on that screen would have been black? Uh, when when they got the data back so people got very excited so The evidence is Not a hundred percent in yet, uh It is strongly suggestive of their being water under the surface Which then leads to all sorts of interesting questions What is that water like? What is it like? What happens to water that is left behind on mars? Uh, a lot of people have a lot of theories about all of it, but it it means a lot of things to us it means a lot about the The geographic evolution of the planet it also means that there is a potential for, uh, sending habitats to mars because if there's water you can Even if it's heavily solanated and it's probably very brackish water You can you can filter the salt out and yeah because the I know you mentioned this but the temperature is below freezing well below freezing So it has to be certain pretty salty because salts lower the freezing point of water It has to be pretty salty if it's liquid. Yeah, it's it's mars kind of interesting because it's a third the size of the planet earth and and so it's a third the gravitational pull and so That that puts some upper limits on the kind of molecules that can just drift off into space Like a lot of lighter molecules just leave. Oh, yeah You know, but the heavier molecules like water to stick around and salt sticks around and all this stuff So so yeah Interesting so it's not something we're just going to pop a straw down and drink. Um, I wouldn't First of all, you can try that We're not going to I I drink your milkshake I drink your mars shake I mean, are there indications of what Minerals might be in the water on mars based on what it has been already seen in sediment on mars that could prove beneficial to humans whether we could get it back somehow or or Yeah, I mean there's some logical guesses people are making right so so the radar data is not going to tell you that because Water is not going to return a signal So you're not going to see any sort of backscatter and you're not going to be able to tell actually what's what's going on the surface or under the surface, but We do have some fairly reasonable idea of What's in the silicates in the soil and what's what's what's the sand made out of what? What the south polarized cap, which I think is where this is from I think they got the data from the south not the north so south polarized cap So they have some idea of all those chemicals there and so yes, they could Put together some models and say okay So these particular chemical elements are in that soil we know for sure We know that the water has been there at least You know pick your time frame 12 million years whatever it is And so we know that the sentiment the scent I can't say the word the sand Sand around that area Has a certain ratio of filtering Filtering to to to the chemicals are going down so they can guess what it might be like And and there are extremophiles on earth that can live in temperatures that low if there's liquid water So, you know immediately all the headlines jump to you know possibilities of life But it is you know as you said There are still some questions to be answered before you can be a hundred percent certain that liquid water is there In fact, there's a chinese orbiter that's Supposed to launch in july or august 2020 the mars global remote sensing orbiter Which would be able to provide further data to help confirm this but right now they're they're saying it's more likely than not So we're going to go with that assumption Then if that's true The question could be you know what possibility of Some single cell life surviving there is there if there was ever life on mars That possibility becomes quite high if mars has always been dead then no there's probably not anything there Right and or there could be fossilized material there Bacterial bacterial size fossils. But yeah, uh, there's a lot of possibilities that open up But for me personally like the most exciting thing to me is it opens up the potential for human habitation Yeah, because you can extract that water desalinate it and you know, I mean not not that those things are easy No To desalinate to get her tough, but but it's possible it comes possible You can drink it you can turn it into fuel. You can turn it into air. You can I mean it it saves a lot of Transportation to and from the planet. So There's definitely fish aliens On mars. Yeah, if doctor who if doctor who has taught us anything. Yes, they're martian I do have a question about how the um sar is that how you say sar? How that works compared to lidar, which I know has been used on um on planet earth to Find archaeological sites and things like that So are they in any way shape or form similar to each other same principle? The ellen lidar is it's either laser or light I forget what it is, but it It it shoots a linear beam out. So it's it's got a smaller penetration Then then radar waves do within radio waves do But the concept is very very similar. So any anything anything that sends out radiation and Measures what gets bounced back Is considered one of the ours One of the ours one of the one of the radars. Yeah, okay, cool Lighter is interesting. Actually lighter works really well for sorry lighter works really well for um determining wake vortexes behind planes because you can you can measure Changes in the atmosphere. So you see the turbulence Through lidar. So um back when I was working for the FAA we were doing a lot of experiments with with Using lidar in front of aircraft to to look at aircraft in front of that aircraft to make sure that they were avoiding the Wake vortex behind the wings Very interesting. Yeah So so we have one I can't remember the name of the other orbiter and Rob Maybe you'll remember it there there was an orbiter that that looks at a at a wavelength that was that it doesn't see The reflection that indicates the water And it wouldn't so that it wouldn't yeah So that so that one that one is sort of saying well, we haven't seen anything But then we wouldn't uh, you've got the the orbiter that that they've now sort of Reanalyzed the data to be able to to see this reflection And then we've got the Chinese orbiter that could confirm it But you know, it really confirm it is Something down there and start drilling around see if see if you spot a gusher Yeah, what's involved with that? Is that just ridiculous to think about it's not ridiculous to think about But it consider it's it's a mile down that's I think it's I think it's over a mile down if I remember and so It's hard to drill a mile here Right. We do it, you know, there are there are there are scientific explorations and oil drilling and all that stuff That goes that goes does go down that far But it takes a lot of effort and so to package up a drill that can go down a mile And shoot it off and get it to another planet And have it do it a drill down for a mile That's that's that's asking a lot. So you would have to be able to construct the drill and the drill bits there using available materials And have a robot essentially, you know, we were talking about 3d assembly before just yeah I was just thinking but we nasa's in the just finished the first phase of a three phase competition to create The ability to 3d print structures on mars using martian material most of that stuff they're making is is some kind of Concrete analog though. That's not going to help you with drilling unfortunately No, but you could you could I mean there's silks in the soil And so with silks kits you can make you know glass drills that are very hard Okay, so yeah Give us something to do making some diamond drills on mars and then Break them up into rings and sell them back on earth. That sounds like a beetle song Diamond drills on mars. This is super exciting though. The you know just just the idea of there's water on mars, right like However salty or or however small. What is it 25 kilometers wide one kilometer deep? Yeah, it's what's unclear to me though tom is is if That that that patch That's all they looked at. Oh, right, right So it's it's unclear to me if they just stopped looking or if they're going to plan on looking in different areas Same fine, but no, I did read that they they want to keep looking because if they can find other Indications of it then that could mean there's there's sort of like antarctica has A hydraulic system that connects Various lakes together under the ice that would be super exciting. Yeah, very cool. Yeah I kind of see mars water is like the new charcoal water You know like how is it good for me? It just is it's from mars filled with yes It's really good stuff. It's like fiji water, but way better on the adultery It's bottled and they're shipped out through through whole foods. That's great Ah, well, there is the music once again that brings us to the end of this topic sarah. What do we have next? Well, you know, sometimes Uh, when I think of what a martian would be like we're an alien of some kind I think of teenagers because the older I get the less I understand them Because when you're a teenager everyone else is an alien and when you're an adult the teenagers are It's happened. I I no longer understand a lot of teen behavior We're going to focus on a really interesting article. Taylor Lorenz wrote up at the Atlantic Title that teens are debating the news on instagram. You might say, okay. Well instagram is being used But this is actually a very interesting use case. I was not familiar with beforehand So somebody let me know if you've heard of the idea of flop accounts on instagram No flop account to me. I was like flop house. It's something that's like temporary. I don't you know No, it's actually really different. A flop account kind of refers to something equivalent to a fail account So it's an account that is created and often has a variety of admins who all have access So it's a you know a group posting efforts That is designed to get a community rallied around something Uh, you know off color YouTube star said someone in the public eye a politician perhaps that said something that wasn't appropriate You know or non-pc or just dumb or just bad behavior in general And the interesting thing about these accounts is because of course it's instagram and there are some limitations there is It's based on a visual meme something that is describing the idea of the post And then what everybody is is who's following the account has to say about it Now you might say all right. Well, that's just kind of like meme stuff But a lot of the accounts Are quite serious and the Atlantic article does a really good job. It has lots of examples of Really, you know intelligent as far as The young person's view of life and of course there are many of them but that sort of particularly important view of How they are seeing the news that they're getting and uh, what taylor the author of the article Kind of said is there's a really real common thread here and or a few of them actually and it's Obviously teenagers want to avoid adults, right? So these sorts of things are something that are kind of going on behind the scenes and you know The average mom might look at that account and be like, I don't know I don't understand what this is. So it's a little bit of a code thing That's been going on for years teenagers always wanted to do that but also distrust in What they would consider an authority and that also includes the media and a lot of that is kind of warranted And a lot of that is coming down from older people telling them that they shouldn't trust the media. So that is It seems to be a growing trend um, and then also the the the idea that okay, well if you're going to introduce some sort of a topic about Oh, you know some social subject that is heavy And you are relying on a lot of comments on an instagram post, right in one of these flop accounts Which is for the most part Calling somebody out for doing something bad. You're going to get a lot of troll comments That's the way it goes people get mad people, you know, it's it's it's that sort of chaos that I think a lot of us think Uh, we're just always trying to get away from it Well, there are a lot of young people who have never known life without online trolling and that sort of anonymity That allows you to act a certain way and maybe do things that you wouldn't have done otherwise But where we feel like there's a choice Younger you are, you know, the lines are a little bit more blurred and then of course Because of doing things that you might that might be uncovered later. There's that whole Not always poor understanding but often, um, uh, you know, incorrect understanding of long-term consequences of doing things For example, you're saying something online not getting a job because of it years later in life um, and then, you know, shan and I wanted to actually, um Get your thought on this at the the idea Well, everybody's thought but you first the idea that okay, there's kind of this whole privacy thing going on, right? But Starting an instagram account and you know talking about stuff is like that is not the privacy tool that you should be using If you actually care about locking yourself down and locking adults out of your life No, 100% it is not like my My sister would probably think this is funny and she's the closest thing. I I know personally to a teenager I mean, it's it's just a little odd I just went down a rabbit hole of reading some of these flop accounts in the kind of instagram posts that they post and a lot of it Just seems like You know straight up opinions and um a lot of hate and aggression towards You know folks that think differently from them whether that's right or wrong, you know, that's up to them That's totally cool But um if they're just trying to do this to steer clear of their parents Shouldn't they be using something that's encrypted like Signal to talk to their friends like it just seems like this is way to air You know how they feel with the public and But given that they're using a lot of their real names in their profiles It's not necessarily private I'm sure the people there are plenty of teens using encrypted uh tools And you don't know about them because they're using encrypted tools, right? They're using whatsapp, right? Or or signal or or or something, you know something else I bet they're not I bet I bet that's not true. Oh, I know there are teenagers using those things. Absolutely. And I and I see I see teenagers And they just they just use unencrypted things all the time. So many do yes Yeah And the thing that bothers me about this whole story is how is this different from your wacky uncle lennie posting some lunatic thing on facebook And then people people picking it up and using it as a source if I have this right It's uh, I don't like the old's uh looking down their nose at me I want to talk to my friends away, which is a perfectly normal behavior at that age Uh, I don't trust the media because it is just one person's opinion And we've seen how many times articles end up being wrong Uh, so I want to talk talk it out And there's this idea that I'll go into this corner using security through obscurity that nobody looks at It started as just let's make fun of these memes and it's become a place where we can be free to discuss But it's replicating every single community on the internet going back to news groups They always start as a niche place where everybody's like oh everybody here gets it Everybody here understands me and we can have a free flowing exchange of ideas and discover Truths that we couldn't otherwise Because of the special nature of this area and then it becomes more popular And then the problems of community management pop up and then it turns into a troll fest And I don't think flops have gotten there yet, but then it becomes a place of flame wars Uh, and the fundamental nature of it changes and it loses that early promise The thing that scares me most about this article on the granted. It's the atlantic writing about teens So there may be a slanted view here. I uh, you know, we're only getting this this view on it in this article But what what scares me is this idea of well I don't trust the people who deal in facts because sometimes they're wrong which is not not inaccurate So i'm going to go talk with like-minded people because then we can disagree about stuff and come to an agreement That's true. That's called also mob rule Where yeah when you get a bunch of people who maybe even disagree to agree that something is true That doesn't also that also does not make it true That just means you've all decided to agree on it. We're getting further and further away from, you know, the fourth estate We're getting you know The reporters used to have to take, you know tertiary sources for a reason right before they could take a report on anything Regardless of your viewpoint, whether you took a liberal newspaper or a conservative newspaper or or news media or news media outlet You could be fairly well Sure that the that what's being reported on Was factual to at least the reporter Right and verifiably so And you know, then facebook started and all those nonsense that we're in the middle of right now where it's it's okay to simply say things And you know, it gets very Orwellian you can change the past by simply saying the same thing over and over again No matter You know whether it's true This this feels like that to me this feels like like like teenagers who are Trying to come into grips with the world and and they're not quite ready for it. They're not they're not consulting adults So they don't really know What's real and what's not real and just repeating things over and over again until a meme becomes reality It sounds like confirmation biased me. Yes I think it's it's an it's a symptom of the lack of teaching critical thinking to kids Which has declined over the years so that they are trying to learn how to think critically here They've got the right impulse like i'm not just going to accept things from the media. Let's talk it out Uh, and and that's the right impulse, but they don't have the right tools to do it That's if they don't have the right tools to do it. That's going to turn out poorly There's there's there's always been fringe media. There's always been the nation and national review and mother jones But people just didn't come across it as much if you're not prepared to think critically You are more likely to accept something you read online as being from a credible source And then when it turns out not to be true decide to distrust everyone when what you should be doing is classifying things in your head Like oh, this is a source that I usually can trust This is a source that maybe I can trust and this is a source I don't know and so i'm not gonna trust it until I find out otherwise Nobody wants to hear an old man say this but i'm going to say it anyway, so I apologize ahead of time back in my day When I was in high school, we were required to take a debate course It was a requirement. I had to do that in college hated it Well, yeah, but you did it. I was not required of it. Yeah Although I am slightly younger than y'all as well But I was we weren't required to take a debate course or like a public speaking class either Know nothing like that which teaches you to You know base your arguments on facts and you know go into a library and learn all of those different things Like we didn't have to do that. I ended up taking a Like a I forget the name for it, but an extra class just for like the extra credit of having that class Yeah, an elective Just so that I could get a little bit of knowledge as far as public speaking goes and that was the Only time in school including university that I had a chance to Um kind of come up with an argument and share that information And I had to like have source material in there that was not wikipedia And all that kind of information and um wikipedia was out when you were taking this class Well in college it was And my journalist journalism teacher strictly said if you use wikipedia, I will fail you Notes we do you guys ever have mock trial in high school? Oh, yes. Yeah, that was like a that was our senior year It was our big mock trial. We never had that Uh, we we weren't required to take any debate or anything in high school in college University of Illinois required a rhetoric class or a speech communications class Which is you know, sort of they doesn't have to be a debate class It's just anything like mock trial works and yeah Shannon just described works I mean anything that gives you a tool to put in your tool belt That allows you to like Not pick up the newspaper and or and immediately accept what's there or not watch something on the internet Well, it's interesting you say that about a newspaper because I remember in junior high I had as I had back when it was called social studies Which included a lot of civics one of the things we had to do for the year was to bring in a news article And then break it down like what the story was talking about You know what what were the facts? what was the impression or the or the The not not the opinion but kind of what the view Was was basically set on and we also did the same thing for political cartoons We had to bring in the each week You had to bring in a political cartoon and break down the symbolism and metaphors That were explicit or implicit in the cartoon and write it down You know, you had to write it down then you had to explain it to the class I remember in my speech comm class I I cited the economist and scientific americanist sources and the professor told me to go back And do it over She she was saying those Are sources that tell you where to find sources So those are great sources to find out the sources you should cite Go find out where they got their information and then you can cite that Uh, and it really pushed me to realize like oh wait, you know, the economist can get something wrong Scientific american gets them wrong. I need to cite the actual paper From the scientific I need to cite the actual economists work. Uh that they're talking about And it was something I never would have thought about if I hadn't taken that course Same with my journalism teacher And there's been even with threat wire, which I currently do and currently use a lot of sources for it There's been multiple times when I'll run across some factual information on a news source That's incorrect And I don't know that until I leak I click through to whatever the PDF document from the government is or whatever I'm trying to read up on And then I find the actual information and I'm like, okay I'm going to link directly to this instead Because then people are going I'm just going to add to that incorrect Information to my own audience, which you know Makes me lose some of my own personal credit in my own my own mind That's an echo chamber. Yeah. Yeah, so it's yeah, it's interesting Yeah, just to just sort of dovetail a little bit off of the original, uh, Atlantic article when I was doing some research Like you did Shannon. I was like, why are all these flop accounts? Where have I been? I came across an article this from the New York Times about a year ago Called the secret social media lives of teenagers also very fascinating I learned about an app called vaulty, which I really should have known about where you could More or less hide photos that you don't want your parents to see and then give them a fake password So they think they're an administrator, but you're actually still hiding photos from them very clever But but it also cited a ucla study that was from 2016 That was kind of looking at teenage brains in general and how they are different than children's brains But not adult brains quite yet and how the you know, sort of cognitive function Is unique and found the study found that teens brains focused on reward processing and social cognition Similarly activated when they thought about things that maybe you associate with power money or sexual activity Or a photo that receives lots of likes on social media So there is some sort of a firing thing that's going on where you're getting Yeah, you're getting kind of that um That uh that boost that you don't necessarily know Is making you feel Powerful and money sucks and likes It's a great movie. Yeah Drugs and likes on instagram is the new way of living Good documentary series on teens that will be upcoming on dts labs, but but but yeah, you know, the whole thing is is I I think that this whole idea of flop accounts and Uh, you know young people say we don't like the way this is going is you know in one sense It's like yeah kids do this But we are also in a climate politically socially and otherwise where More and more people in positions of power are being outed as people who have Abused positions of power. So you really can't blame this to be a trend that Is not going away and the tools are are are creating whether it's You know How realistic it is or not is creating that that feeling of we're self-sufficient Strengthened numbers wisdom of the crowd which is rife with holes as we've all discussed Yeah, the teenage when I was a teenager. I thought I was a fully formed adult And my your brain is not done forming. So you feel that way It's perfectly normal to feel that way, but you don't have quite the inhibitions yet. You you don't you aren't able to Resist taking risks as easily Which is you know, evolutionarily sound it allows us to do kind of a lot of great stuff as a species It's it's worse than that. I'll dig this up and send it out to everybody But the um, there was a study done about 10 years ago, and I'm not I assume it's still valid I don't know where they they went through the cognition process and um the The there's a distinct pathway that has to get built out before you can start making What tom what you're referring to is adult decisions, right your moral centers don't form until your early 20s And it was shocking to read this stuff. Yeah, and it doesn't mean you don't have morality a lot of times If I were when I was a teen if you would have said this to me like screw that of course I know what's right and wrong is that's not what it means. It means it's not fully formed It's not fully formed. You don't understand moral consequences. Yeah, you don't understand that by insulting her It's going to come back in a in a way that you're not expecting Well, and you may understand that but it's just not as fully formed and and and gut instinct And and you won't realize that until later, right? It was a fascinating read. So yeah, all right Let's move on to our final discussion This is the one suggested by our patrons at the advisor level If you're at the advisor level among the many perks you get You get to suggest topics and then vote on them to be included in the round table And the one that got the most votes this time was what unanticipated side effects Is gdpr having on businesses in europe as well as in the us now I'm just going to go over some of the side effects. They may or may not be unanticipated But I think it gets to the heart of of what the topic should be Gdpr went into effect on may 25th. We've talked about it a lot on the show, but if you're unfamiliar It's a privacy requirement. It requires companies To handle customer data in a way that ensures privacy that ensures consent And gives back some control To the customer over their data. It only applies to the european union But any company with an eu customer has to obey it for its eu customers Which means in a lot of cases. It's just easier or cheaper to apply it to all your users Also, you can't force consent for data collection unless the collection is essential to run the service So if i'm just got a blog up, I can't say to read my blog posts You have to give me your social security number because it is not essential for people to read your blog to know their social security number Right, so that that's going to play in here A few of the interesting side effects so far are an increase in security breach reporting Which you might have guessed because it requires you to report security breaches Within 72 hours of becoming aware of the breach So in the uk alone breach reporting went from 400 a month in march and april to 700 in may When gdpr went effect at the end of the month to 1750 in june Also some over cautiousness and this is one i'd like to get y'all's reaction on There's some anecdotes of companies requiring small vendors to have certifications and other paperwork in order to reduce liability It's not something that gdpr requires But companies are somewhat responsible under the gdpr for what their vendors do with their customers data Uh, and so i'm curious if you guys have heard Of that or if that makes sense to you this sort of chilling effect of a company saying yeah We'd like to hire you give us your iso certifications and all this other stuff that they normally wouldn't have asked for Well, it does make sense to me in in light of things that have happened for example with facebook and and the different vendors that one of their applications was using for Uh, what was it the personal information that was leaked? They had a vendor involved and things like that of course they're going to have access to that information So they need to make sure that a vendor is protecting that information or they are allowing People to opt in to sharing that information with them as opposed to having to opt out So it does make sense that they would need to abide by that just to You know ensure that they don't end up not complying with gdpr in the future Although those particular instances could tie back to our moral conversation They could pass all the But what what if you're a small two or three man company, uh, and you provide uh some login form validation That's all it is Uh, and and the company says you know just to be gdpr safe We need these five certifications and you're like we we can't afford the time or money to get those certifications And you lose the contract. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm with shannon. I think that's it. It's a legitimate Cross the bear you can't expect there to be no hurdles in a company that's trying to make money right also, uh, the information commissioner's office is advising organizations to please don't not report every breach But determine whether each breach is indeed required to be reported under the rules of gpr gdpr Those companies are like we are high call volume Which is we're just gonna report it that way. We can't get in trouble Uh, also, uh, ico advising companies to use all 72 hours to gather information Don't just report immediately because then you might be able to find out whether you need to report it or not What's good that they have three days at least to report things That's it's nice that they have that ability so that they can do some research because If if they end up getting inundated With reports 24 seven from companies who don't necessarily need to report some kind of breach or some kind of leak of information Or whatever it might be Then the the people involved on researching these reports when they are received are just going to get Completely boggled by all of the information that's coming in and they might miss something So it is very wise to take that three days and make sure that you're researching everything you need to Before sending in that information, but I think it would be It's incumbent on the eu to provide clear guidelines of what you will and won't get in trouble for Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's what's causing this All right, let's get to the heart of the matter the effects on companies There were some early reports that facebook and google were seeing more advertising directed their way Uh away from smaller ad exchanges for the same reason that we were talking about with the vendors Companies were like well google and facebook are really good at getting consent So we're going to buy our ads through there because it's going to be less trouble than these smaller companies that we're not sure Whether we trust that they're in full compliance That doesn't seem to have carried on we haven't seen a lot more about that So maybe that was just a first week's reaction. I haven't seen much more about that But we have seen people mentioning gdpr in their earnings reports and elsewhere eBay says it's seeing minimal disruption to date from gdpr to their third party advertising revenue in europe So that would imply that well, okay. Maybe that google facebook thing was a blip Facebook on the other hand says that european monthly Active users and daily active users may be flat to slightly down in q2 as a result of gdpr However, they say we do not anticipate these changes will impact advertising revenue They also indicated that their profit margins would be reduced because of the cost of gdpr related maintenance ongoing maintenance to comply with it Twitter said the law will contribute to a further decline in its active users of the service wix.com Which is a web design company said it hasn't seen any impact on its business as a result of gdpr google very carefully sundar pachai said too early to tell we don't know not enough data in we're a big data company We don't know and then the vp of marketing at a company called jan rain Said that in their consent reconformation outreach Less than eight percent of folks in the database declined permission to serve them full advertisements And only five percent went as far as to deny the right to record any data They said most people were fine with it as long as they knew what we were recording However email was a different matter on their email lists only 22 of those who began the double opt-in process completed it So seeing a mixed reaction there I think this you know obviously isn't every company out there But it kind of gives you an overview of how the companies are reacting any surprises for either of you guys in there Not really. I mean, I I think it's So I I want to get this right Europe the european union and the united states view Um, the legalities of interacting with customers differently The u.s. Is laws are designed to protect the consumer The european union's laws are designed to protect companies I believe if i'm not if i'm not mistaken. Well, the the gdpr is designed to protect the consumer It is but it's yes that and and that's what i'm trying to get to so it's it's This is kind of new territory for them. I see in in a way, so it They did it in a way where it doesn't feel onerous um You know, we've we've made changes in our company to to you know, be ready We're not in europe yet, but just to be ready for it and it's not really a big deal so Can we say well and there have been uh several companies And you know some of them are publications that all of a sudden went dark Right in certain places Where the you gdpr rules went into effect and that's another question Not every company thinks it's really advantageous to Change too much of its model that's working well if enough of their customer bases outside of these rules anyway I I imagine something's going to do the the calculus between like okay, so if we don't comply with GDPR and we just turn europe off What does that do to our bottom line versus the amount of money? We would spend to implement and I think probably everyone's having that conversation Tronk the former tribune company before it decided to be called tronk Owners of the la times chicago tribune news news outlets like that decided to block all european readers Lee enterprises which runs the st. Louis post dispatch just decided to block all european users usa today offers an alternate version as does npr To european users which is interesting Because catchpoint said that us pages on average are loading at 10.22 seconds per page While after gdpr europe's web pages are loading in just over half a second Wow So making someone gdpr compliant and and it's probably a bigger deal than just you know not running advertisements It made people look at their pages and say well, what is all this stuff in here some of the stuff We're not using anymore to get rid of it. Mm-hmm. Whereas companies that didn't do that Still have a lot of cruft that just builds up over the years as well as more intrusive advertisements and data collection Well, I've noticed a similar experience, which doesn't involve gdpr but um, I use brave browser on my phone and brave browser automatically blocks Party advertisements cookies all sorts of different things like that Before they even reach your device and in that sense it does save a lot of time So given that they've pretty much knocked off. What was that 10 seconds off of the load time? That's a lot of time That means that they had they had a lot of third party information on the back end And some of that could have been very insecure given that there's malvertising, which is still a very prominent Portion of malware that's available in in the public whenever you're browsing around online So in in that sense Like it's a really positive thing for consumers given that you're going to receive your load times a lot quicker now As opposed to those 10 second things. I mean over time that's going to save you like what a year of your life Actually want a vpn to germany just to surf the web, right? I know, right? Uh privacy badger, uh, which I use has a similar effect, right? Because it just blocks anything that it thinks is tracking you across sites without your permission and you can tell it No, that's okay. You can let them track me. It's fine So it gives you control, but again speeds up those page loads. So the final thing to mention is who is We've mentioned this on the show before but it has not been resolved. There's still a disagreement over whether gathering information for dns records violates the gdpr And and some registrars are no longer Collecting the address records and things that iCan requires iCan has gone to court in the eu to ask the eu to To define them as an exception saying no if you register domain name We require a mailing address, uh, and we always have and you know, it's a unique you need to rewrite things and some people are saying that really all they need to do is rewrite their contracts, but Uh, there there is some legal confusion over that Doesn't doesn't having a um I forgot what it's called, but they're basically protected registrant. Doesn't that get rid of the problem? Yeah, but it's all about what it's about what you ask for iCan Requires the registrars to ask for it protected registrants can then keep it from being displayed publicly, but it's still collected Yeah, you don't have a choice in the manner manner would you when you sign up for a domain You have to give them a physical address of some kind and some some domain registrants Um, they actually send you a postcard in the mail to ensure that you actually live there And you have to like put in that code or whatever it might be on their website Um, which personally given that I have to pay like seven dollars a year or something like that Just to protect my privacy and my physical address because I don't want nobody showing up at my front door Uh, I don't think it's very fair. I don't think that we should have to have physical addresses I know why it's there. I understand why I can You know it requires you to have that information. I just wish that it was optional The the flip side of that conversation, of course is if you remove any information from a domain registrant They're free to do whatever they want with you know, exactly exactly And that's why they require that information from you so that The so that they're able to report it if there is some kind of law breaking or something like that Well and theoretically though, it doesn't you don't need a home address to provide domain name system Service. Yeah, so it violates that forced consent Uh law, which is why I think they're saying well, we can redo the contracts that Describe why we need it, uh better that that make it a an element that is required But this is where gdpr does break down is there there is a lot of vagary in the rules that People don't know how it's going to be enforced because it hasn't been tested in court. There's no precedent Not yet Not yet. Well, that's it. Uh, this has been a fantastic round table episode. Thanks to everybody for joining us Yes, in fact, thanks Extra special thanks to shannon and rob for being with us today shannon will start with you Let folks know where they can keep up with everything you're doing outside of these wonderful round table shows Absolutely. Um, so you can find me over on tech thing.com. That's te k thing.com We recently just on thursday reviewed the brand new lenovo smart display So that's the one that comes with google assistant built into it and it was actually really cool But you'll have to watch it. You'll have to watch it to listen to our comparison to the um amazon echo show Which we did make a comparison to so that was pretty fun to do also on hack 5 hk 5.org I've been doing threat wire as usual discussing all the security and privacy topics that are going on right now And the thing that I've been doing as a hobby for the past couple of months is my new youtube channel It's youtube.com slash sailor snubs. I know it's a ridiculous name, but I am obsessed with sailor moon So it's all about sailor moon the anime and manga from japan So if you're interested in learning about it, you can definitely check out my channel It's youtube.com slash sailor snubs. Please subscribe because i'm going to do a giveaway when I hit 500 Yay Rob DeMillo always nice to have you on the show. You're such a good round table guest. You bring the knowledge What where I bring the lack of hair That's you know, that's you know, you can have both you can have both in fact I think there's you know, well, anyway, I won't get into hair loss Uh, but uh, let folks know where they can keep up with everything else you do outside of these shows You can you can find most of the stuff about me on about me.com Uh, we're about that me actually Rob DeMillo And then I am uh, cto at nimble collective.com. We're doing animation up in the cloud. It's a ton of fun So check that out too Excellent. Hey folks, would you like more of these kinds of shows? Do you like this? Our next milestone is just 2,500 bucks away on patreon would get us up to two round table episodes a month Join on in the fun or up your pledge and you can get some cool perks like the show good day internet Which includes dts and a whole lot more exclusive columns sarah lane just posted one yesterday for the associate producer level And there's all kinds of stuff like being able to vote on the round table topics available at patreon.com Dts if you want to get a hold of us you got a question you got a comment You just want to get something off your chest We'll take it our email addresses feedback at daily tech news show.com If you'd like to join us live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 2030 utc Put it on your calendar or find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live back on monday with lamar wilson talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants dot com Club hopes you have enjoyed this bro Great show you guys very good round table. You guys are Hey Was that a frog pants dance shannon? That was a that was that was my co-workers are outside the studio making funny faces at me I got the same thing I've got a like amazing smarts and you've been crying this entire show very bad. Oh He's like why am I never a round table guest? Oh, she says Yeah, lucy used you use your gmail Then you'll know She had a lot of comments on kitty pr So i've been recording those sailor sailor snubs videos at home and my cat I have to lock her out or else she will climb in my sailor moon collection and knock things over And she sits outside the room and she goes Oh my gosh Yep drives me crazy. That is what happens to me every day at 5 30 a.m I'm so sorry, right because my cats are allowed to sleep with me Yeah, um, because why not? You know, it's a cuddle party But they'll start bothering me. So if I lock them out of the bedroom Then it's like I do that too sometimes on a good day. I'll get like 30 minutes, but sometimes Especially one of my cats more than the other one. We'll just not even get into who's at fault We'll just start, you know, like literally yodeling outside like Like making like the weirdest voices where like no one could sleep through that Super weird and she knows it. I laugh because I've been there Do we have a title roger? Um Firmware updates in space money sex and lies likes likes likes Yeah Money sex and likes lies money sex and lies is a real thing That's just normal, you know, they're gonna reboot mean girls and I'm sure a social like a social networking tool like that's gonna be a central part of it They are no they will oh Mars milkshake and uh You drink my milkshake I drink your milkshake twice this week Teens are Teens are aliens Mean girls the musical officially coming to broadway. I would watch that Lindsay Lohan She's really This is really she's starring in the musical. I don't know she's starring Oh, well, I mean she'd have to right when Tina Fey She's saying she wants a film of it when Tina Fey was guest hosting snl A couple months ago they were talking about this and they did a little piece where she was trying to bully her way into being part of That's right. Oh, yeah I didn't realize that skit was based on come to conclude. That's actually happening So what do we call it teens are aliens? Or do you like money sex and likes Money sex and likes. I think that's good. Yeah. All right. Probably shouldn't use the well. I don't know Do you monetize youtube? Oh, yeah, right Um, whenever they let us Sex having that in the title will demonetize it most likely We're used to that We appeal that right multiple times a week Having deep in us in the title apparently Uh, demonetized really? Roger, how often are you doing it late anymore? Uh, it's not as bad as it was a month ago A month ago was like every one a week now. It's maybe one a month Wow Like and I don't know sometimes you even before the show's live. It's been flagged Yeah, I mean seriously. Yeah, that's like, uh, well, we haven't even started anything Ah youtube probably because there's a hamster that runs the uh content flagging system It's like a little in the ball like It's a it's a uh, it's a Tenser flow processing unit attached to a hamster wheel to power it and with a with a machine learning algorithm good harder and cash See that Hamster gets tired and the bot goes down Have a hamster powered search engine where they just like you type in something and they just start running and they stop In something and it just automatically pulls up result. It doesn't have to be anything you search that that is how it works Yeah I want to look for home loans Isn't that like stumble upon? Oh Originally kind of Yeah, there's too many choices. We'll just give you something good. What was the video service 20 seconds? Remember chat roulette Honestly, okay, this is funny I was trying to think about this the other day because we were talking about Facebook watch party and chat roulette obviously is different But I was like, what was that one thing from years ago? Where you just like would randomly get hooked up with somebody else with a webcam You know and there was no rhyme or reason and I'm I'm searching because I couldn't remember the name chat roulette and I'm searching on google like old web 1.0 video chat inappropriate You know, there were so many like strings that I had to put together it took me a while before I finally found an article I was looking for that probably produced zero results It produced the wrong ones A lot of times when I get reminded by something like that It's because of a similar thing that just happened or came out and when I search for it All I can get is the new thing So I I go into google and I change the search parameters to say only give me results up until like february of last year Oh, you know what? That's a really good idea to just filter out Your news unless you forget and then try and look something in the past up. Well, it doesn't it's not persistent Thanks But yeah, that's a especially when I'm updating my tech history links a lot of times I have to go do that You do that regularly Oh, yeah, those you I have a new appreciation for the the ephemerality of the web People change their links constantly. I'm always having to go back and check the links for daily tech history citations and I probably change Two or three a month that have gone bad And they're quite often corporations history pages Where it's like, you know at&t Had a history page where it talked about this was the first Phone call. This was the first mobile phone call and then they'll just get rid of that page or move it somewhere else And not forward it. It's the worst insert white house joke here Richard Nixon Good old real real tape never goes away except for 18 minutes everyone's We still got a library I've been to that library. It's a good library. You can actually listen to the Watergate tapes. They have them display I'm sure they're on the internet somewhere. Well, they are they are now too. Yeah Does it have a recorded voice of Nixon saying welcome to my library? I wish they had as it headed a jar when you want. Oh, you'd be like a Futurama. Yeah Oh, sadly it does not Oh, this is a I haven't read the article yet, but um Someone in our our boss's slack posted A gizmodo article the headline is woman says ancestry.com test revealed her parents Fertility doctor was actually her father What? Which is like not on ethical really Um, well, it depends. I know. Yeah, I totally don't don't don't unpack that statement too carefully Yeah, you're right. You're right. Anyway. Yeah head over to gizmodo for some science Science and scandal. Yeah, it's going on with our episode numbers. I thought yesterday was all threes what But according to website, I wanted to be on all threes Is It what happened? What do you mean? No yesterday was yeah yesterday was all threes and But it in the blog post it says 3 3 3 5 But my fault. Okay, my fault change it to four Got it done Oh, I'm to be the 3 3 3 We could have had that. That's the mark of the the mark of the sofa. I don't know So mark a certified public account What is that? Or a wacky new sitcom 3 3 3 All right, we're going to risk money sex and likes because by golly We should have the right to put that word in a title. There's nothing wrong with that Responsibly with the word sex And they were never heard from My fish is water every week Oh My god, don't forget to change the number on youtube Even though that that video will get taken down because of the title The whole thing you've never you've never had a provocative title before or as I call it a title with just words in it Uh, yeah As long as it feels really we try not to put curse words in there like outright Or something that's like sensational that wouldn't deliver. Yeah. Yeah, my most provocative title. I've had was uh I was groped at a hacker con And surprisingly that did not get demonetized on youtube, but my my vlog from the charles dickens fair Did get demonetized And I was like It's charles dickens Didn't apple Really controversial Didn't apple flag a a uh, it's cock No, it's whole merry. There's a whole marion graphic novel Oh Do you remember this? I remember hitchcock getting blocked somewhere to each clock. I remember Our intern in pa Graham Hancock getting blocked on twitter because of this thing Oh for gram really? Yeah, you're kidding. Oh I mean that Is just like that's his last name Do you have like Nah, I think it was like a back and forth email. It's like oh, it shouldn't have been roger That shouldn't have been his last name Well, you know, we don't get to pick our families. All right Also, also, that's it's that's not I mean his last name is not a bad word You know, there are little words inside lots of bigger words Folks Uh, we're gonna say goodbye to the live viewers because this video will never be Money sacks and likes guys I hope you enjoyed the round table video viewers audio listeners stick around you're free to continue to