 So hello, and I hope that you like this morning that you had a lunch and everything But right now I want to share one great Ideas with you, but I am afraid that for that I will need some app Developer is there please any app developer here? Yeah, I have a good idea do you have some time no No time, okay. I will pay you a money Maybe yeah, it's okay, right? Okay. Okay, so please what is my what is my idea? Yeah, when I am traveling to the office or to the pub or somewhere I saw the people on the streets and they are listening to music They are singing they are dancing they listen to music on the mobile phone And I was thinking hmm if they enjoyed so much what about they will pay for them and they will pay Pay me what do you think they can pay us? So I need to have an app for that for listening to music. What do you think about it? Yes, I think it's a great idea. And how do you want to like have it? Yeah, it should be it should be cool It should be simple It should be very interesting music there Yeah, it should be working everywhere. We have no connection with connection with 5g connection Okay, but it shouldn't be like yeah, what about the features and features and so hey, I am I don't have time Bye-bye you are the expert. I know Please do your work Hello, mr. Peter Yes, I am here here. Yeah, so what's up? I don't know me show you. Oh Nice, it's cool. Yeah Wow, that's a great man. I like it. Yeah, and we have a lot of features like play and stop Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Is that anybody who downloaded this app, please? Yeah, come on and please tell us your user experience Hello, I'm mr. Petter. Hello, mr. Petter So what do you think about it's great, right? Yes, it's a massive piece. I believe it's Like I don't have sounds. It's like having a personal DJ who missed the beats Can you see my review even? Oh, don't use it. Oh, I am afraid. I don't have time. Bye-bye I have two buttons and the most useful is the stop button I don't want to listen to songs from medieval times Backpipes, you know, like who wants to listen to that. It's like run the music playing. I can I can stop it That's that's useful. It's I cannot search for the music. I have no suggestions. Like I cannot Oh, by the way, thank you. You saved me $10. Yeah. Oh, yeah Yeah, I spent my money on that. Nice to meet you, Andre. Yeah, I'm Andre. I'm the product owner But they probably brought it something. Yeah product owner. Okay. Yeah. He's the guy who can fix Applications. Yeah, I know him. I had similar reviews on some applications and then while Andre came and fixed everything I think you need him, but you don't want it. Like like why do we want it? Like I beg money for this. No, no, no, like I need to go to work now. No, no, don't worry. Don't worry. I spend two dollars, man Yeah What I believe don't worry They come cool water and water. Okay, Mr. Product something. Well, how can we like what are your purpose here? Have you ever like try to see this from a user perspective? Oh Of course not. Okay. But One second. We can call the guy the big money. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, you have called big money. Yeah, let's Okay Hello, Mr. Petter. Yes. Did you come over? Yes? I guess. I'm here. Yes. Oh, who's that? Hi, Mr. Petter. Big money. Yeah, I'm Andre. Yeah, nice to meet you. I'm the product owner. Product something. Yes, that's it. Yeah What what do you need? I was reading your reviews and things to cheaper. I didn't buy your app. It's your app, right? Yeah, it's my app. Yeah, you didn't buy it. That's pity. I like money Yeah, you're precious, right? Yeah, so yeah, I just read it like have you ever tried to use your own app? Of course not. Oh, yeah, I see. Yeah, I imagine. Okay, so Like you spend a lot of money here, right? Yeah, like four dollars, right? Okay. So gold. That's a gold It is better than check and you know, you shouldn't you just have it. Okay. Yeah, maybe so Can we want to try again? You want to fix it? Fix it, yeah. So you will remove don't use it and you will write it as a best app ever? We will do better. We will make teamwork do that. Okay. I have 10 minutes. We can discuss it. Yeah, I know. Okay So can you explain me the idea the idea it's easy look when I'm traveling to the work I see a people on the streets. Yeah, and they are listening. Why not? I don't judge them They are listening the music, but they have phones in they had and I am saying why then why they don't pay me for the listening Okay, let's do it once. So why you speak less. Can we take some notes? Yeah, please make some notes. Yeah, you mentioned that we're talking about topics and Split your idea into topics. So one more time. You are the user. Are you imagine the app? I should imagine that I am a user With money. Yeah Okay, I can I can yeah So it's about songs songs. Yeah I like some of them. I don't like some of them and I want to have it in my playlist one playlist for Traveling to the disco one playlist for traveling to the job once for divorce and so, you know Different playlists share later on with me. Yeah Music search it's very important playlist music search. Yeah, and then as I said it should be about money So I need to have a different people have different profiles. So I know if they paid me or not users. Yeah Socializing socializing because I want to judge the people by their playlists. That's nice Okay I tell you you didn't understand So, okay, so if I took notes and it's right That's it what you want. It's too much. But in some management our playlists. Yes Money subscription means money, right? Yeah. Yeah Remember the disaster Minutes you made that disaster, right? Okay, okay, so let's do it right and let's start with the most basic function Control I Master likes it, right? So play back control again, I know it's hard but money. Yeah. Yeah, so you are the user How do you see the functions? If I open the app But it is not crashing because yesterday it crashed to the floor with the phone Right users will pay it. Don't worry. Okay. Okay. I want to choose the song I want to hit the button and it and it will play. I will listen to me Okay, so if we start with play it's the user Wait, wait, wait, you use so many papers for that. The company's paying for this Okay, users will pay. Okay. We have a lot of them. So that's it. You open that select a song hit play and Listen to me. Yeah. Nice. What else? Pause. Oh, it's very important. But no, no pause stop because when when I am listening music very often Somebody call me for example or lawyers or my body or something. No, I need to stop the music And I need to answer the call I'm a businessman I'm actually the divorce. Okay. Yeah, fine. So user opens the app pretty much the same and stops. Yeah Yeah, but a lot of paper here, but don't worry. They are paying for that and I have a solution Okay, okay. So the pause you may have a pause, okay? It's if I for example, I'm listening to music Mm-hmm, and I need to pause it because I like it but I want to buy a new Lamborghini and then I can continue You know fine. So yeah, just to I try to do something with these teeth Repeat that play because we have a lot of greens and Fine, so thank you Okay, pause fine. And what else? What comes next next? Sometimes I listening, you know, for example the radio in the car and there is a Justin Bieber just in the I need to hit Next and it is keeping to something more what I like. Okay. Fine. No Justin You don't want to be judge it. Okay fine, but Okay, you're playing does it work? Okay? Yeah When because why how much If I just if I am not For example in the morning if I don't know and I don't play but next it should play the next one from the my playlist And if it's just Bieber next. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So if we have one next Story another one, and it's a different a little bit different, right? Yes Thank you So Patrick we have all the things for the playback control, right? Yeah, we have but if I ask the developer Can you implement this everything at once? Yeah, but one thing I need Oh Should we prioritize the things because we are doing it in releases. So What do you want first? What should come first? Yeah Repeat because sometimes there is a Dell. She is so lovely. I want to I want to listen it again Repeat again repeat listen. Let me guess again. Yeah, I got I think I got it. Yeah, we explored Okay, but to repeat something should be playing, right? No Yeah, that's true. So maybe the play is a little more priority than a repeat. Just a little bit. I I could agree. Yes, okay Okay, after all the discussion, that's what we have we kind of Skip it the repeat. Yeah, but we have the next so you don't need to deal with just in view Yes, of course people will not judge you and we have placed off and next right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, okay in the end We have this But I have something to tell you about we need to do that for the others. It's work Remember the disaster money Okay, okay, we can tie it. We can tie it. Okay, let's do it Okay, we did everything for all the other features and we selected what comes in the first release and the other things are go They go to the product backlog and we listen to the users. We select that and we are releasing stuff That's it. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I see free 3r in the MVP It's will be for free. It's at the beginning. No, it's about addiction. You know something about the addition Yeah, yeah money and socializing creating addiction. Yeah, because they start spreading the word of listening Yeah, that's a good idea Yes, it was so addicted that we start paying and then the money will flow. Yeah. Okay. Slowly. Yeah. Okay. Okay So can I talk to them? Yeah, please talk to them. Bye. No, wait a minute. You will do it, right? Yeah, we will do it That's our work. You need money You are not engineer. You do nothing. What do you think bye bye? You pay me. Okay. Okay, engineer. Are you okay with that? Yes. Thank you. So you don't need me, right? No Great, because now you will deal with him and with customers. No, no, stop, stop. I need you. You need me, are you sure? I don't want to deal with you. So fast. No? Okay, so Oh, yeah. Okay. Thank you. Oh, you want to share? Okay. So I'll pay you Hello, Mr. Big Money. Could you come over and discuss our result? I am here. Yeah. Yes Okay, so here is that scholar again. Why? Okay. Okay. What are the features here? Features? Yeah Yeah, I don't care about the feature. What about the user experience? They started They do they started to be addicted? I don't know. Do we have anybody? Do you remember that guy? Yeah, somebody don't really stupid. Yeah, we are friends now. Yeah, okay. Okay. I will tell them. Yeah, you can. You can. Why not? Why not? Yo, T-bar. Can you come over? Yeah, I'm on the way. Yeah, thank you. Hello. Hello. Hello. Yeah, I like the new release of the application. Really? Hello, Mr. Great job. Great job. I'm owning this app, you know. Cool, cool. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I don't know what you do, but it was a great job. Like I think that this this app finally knows me like it suggests the Macarena for our party and we were listening on repeat. Yeah, we loved it. We were dancing. It was such a great pause. Yeah, addiction. Yeah, addiction. They started to be addicted. Yeah, okay. It's the feature of trending music. My life, my life. I like the feature of trending music. Like I didn't know in such baby shark existence. It's really lovely. Yeah. Yeah. What a baby shark. I was so occupied dealing with him. I'm sorry about that, yeah. I will definitely add it to my playlist library with this hard button because I really love it. Like I will listen to it. Did you play it? Yeah, yeah, of course. I will just play it and go earn some money to spend it on this app. Something. Mr. Big Money. Yeah. Are people getting addicted to your app? Yeah, it's nice. We will very soon release another things and there will be a payment. Finally. Yeah. So do you see that I am not an engineer and maybe you are not engineer? Yeah. Yeah. But you really make this engineer, the software engineer who was working, he finally created my thoughts, which was great. They started understanding you, right? Yeah. I would say that you helped me so you deserve it. Yeah. Thank you. Good job. Good job. Thanks, Mr. Big Money. Bye. Yeah. He's not kidding. No, he's not kidding. It's my money. So Q&A. So do you have any questions? It was a disaster when you just see so No. No questions. No comments. No addiction. Thank you. And the voice was the best. It was the most happy. Okay. That's it. There is no questions. That's great. Thank you. I have a question. So what do you do at random? Please start. I am a product owner. And I don't have any money. What are you doing? The same. We are basically the messages. We are the bridge between the customers, the users, the final users, and we've kind of translated it to the developers, to the development teams, and we try to help to facilitate that. So we don't waste time, we don't waste money, and we implement whatever the users will use or they will take advantage of to improve and help. Okay, Clara. Very often I think the problem at random is that the product owners don't actually have the contact with the customer. Are you experiencing the same issue and do you think that there is a solution? Andrea, we left it for you. This is a nice question. Okay. I heavily engage with my product manager and she is exposing me to the customers because I'm asking and willing to do that. So a very nice guy called Dimitri Paul told me that you can, you have the business you are developing to or you have partnership with, company A, but in company A there are customers or users inside it. So we kind of need to trespass this company and reach to the final users and kind of listen because sometimes they have ideas just like the one we presented and now just do it because our people will love it and in the end that's not what they are expecting or it's not useful. So she's trying to expose me as much as she can, but it's time consuming and it's hard to sometimes go to those people. Yeah, they are understanding the world, like the things that they should put me in front of like, okay, if you need to listen to these people and try to get the things and understand the scenarios, etc. and come back to us. So we're doing some attempts. It's getting there. Yes. Let me see if I got your question. So you are asking it, how do we manage it? He asked us for a feature and we try to understand if that feature belongs to our product to like all the customers versus pleasing a single customer. Is that the question? Fun fact, I'm dealing with that right now. So some customers they are pursuing some or like they are really trying hard to get some features that don't belong to our product. So first your product should have a vision, what our product should do. Otherwise you will create something that you're trying to tackle so many problems and it's like a Frankenstein. Okay, what is this supposed to do? And you need to be focused. It's not so easy, but if you have the statement or my product should do this, like this bottle should carry water and keep things fresh. I would not add like solid things here because if someone asks, no, but if I can't know, you can't. This product doesn't solve this problem. Maybe another one. It's hard, but if you have people on your side and understanding that, it makes things easier. And if you have anything to add. Okay, it's my thing that there's not something to add. It was about to be out to both, I think, what we are trying to do. Yeah, thanks for your question. Sorry, something was passing. That's great. There are some mechanisms to try to try that, but none of them we replace the final user, the end user accessing that. So there are some companies that they just launch a new feature and they just put this like 1% of our customers will have access to that and we see how is the damage. We test internally, of course, we go through the user stories, we understand, okay, this feature is doing that. So it's actually doing what we expected. Because I tried to clarify, the product owner tried to clarify as much as he could and tried to understand the user journey. So there is a lot of work before the final product. Before it reached to the development team, we kind of go there and try to understand, okay, this, this, this, this, and we try to come up with different solutions. It's good to have technical people in those discussions. I called product trio. It's a product owner, a developer lead and someone from UX. So us three together, we kind of speak about it and everyone brings their point of view or oh, I listen to the customers. I know the technical feasibility of that and I kind of try to understand from the user, the final user perspective. So we together have more chances to do something that will please the customer or achieve the goals. But it doesn't prevent some disasters, but we try our best. We have the testing, we understand that we are doing what the user stories are supposed to do. Sorry. And once we, when you, before launching or in the launching phase, we can do some A-B testing, okay, half of the developer, half of the customers will go through the new path, the other half will go through the old path, and we can try to understand what is happening. So there are some, some companies just put one percent of the final users in touch with the new flow or the new feature and they try to collect things. There are beta testers. You are like, about the addiction, we were playing that, but oh, you are a beta tester user. You have access to this before other people, you feel special. So we are dealing with emotions as well. All those things, and we kind of get to review because, oh, I mean, special, they are selecting us to reveal this before others. So, oh, yeah, this is, if I can maybe just comment a little. It's always about the beginning where the product owner is telling it to the team what they will do. It's really about to specify very precisely and think about it in this, in this time, how the test should, should look like. If we don't know, we create a spike for that, and then we have a more, more understanding and better results. Then there is a testing process which is standard. So it is tested that it is doing, and also here the product owner can check the, the, the, the requirements are met. And then, yeah, the beta phase and the testing with the partners and so on. Yeah, all those stuff is done. Yes. Yes. Yes. If you want to say no, no, yes. Because, sorry, I, I, I feel it. This is, this is about knowing, I should know my customer, I should know their needs. It's a benefit if I understand the technical stuff. But it is also when I know technical stuff too much and I try to find a solution. I'm not doing my job. I should be there and I, I should have a voice of customers. I, I shouldn't be a, when I, when I want to solve it, I, I collect my team. We have a meeting. I am trying to say what we need and they are providing the solutions. But I really trust them. They have the knowledge. They are the engineers. I am not an engineer, by the way. So, yeah. And we have, we can, yeah, because I was, before I was an engineer for 10 years. I was a solutions architect and I moved it to the product owner role. And sometimes I really want to go there and dictate what is the solution, how it should be. Like, the solution will be this. You will build this way. It's not my job. I, I cannot, I can't touch that. I just need to say what is supposed to do and how it's supposed to behave. They will provide a solution. There was, yeah. My question was, how much do you think the automated behavioral analysis is something like that, basically a replay of the product in the role? It's like, you know, or, yeah, these are things that try to use the behavior of navigation or product. I saw a meme in the internet that, okay, product owners are safe because the customers are people they, they really should know what they should ask about. So, if the, we have those conversations to understand and dig further what the person really means. So in the beginning of the presentation, he had something in his head, but he was not able to translate that. So if he was able to write all the specification, et cetera, in the right way that Eric would understand, and he is sure about what he wants, yes, they can replace us, but I think it's the case. Yep, sorry. I think this person, this person, that you can, oh, there was one. Yeah. So what do you wish you had known before you had become a product owner? Sorry? What do you wish you had known about the work before becoming a product? That would be so fun. Yes, I enjoy what I do. What was the question? What would you like to know before joining this role? Okay. What I wanted to know. I wanted to have a training before. I did my training during my path. There was a lot of trainings, but at the beginning it was towards some processes, product owners, it's not about processes, product owners about communication and about the tooling. This theater maybe was a little, you know, but the way how Andre was asking me, I am calling it a tool. It's very important to know how to properly ask the question, to get the answers. So that's what I wanted to know at the beginning. Yeah. I have a question about product vision. How often it can be adapted or changed or it's like just one? Every time it's needed. No, every time it's needed. Product owner should be in contact with product management. We are. And recently we updated in the beginning of the year. And I think that before the end of the year, we should check if it is still valid. I try to replicate something personal. So your life change, right? So it's the same as the product. Today it makes sense to go this way, but maybe tomorrow something happened and okay, we should start driving in that direction. So in maximum once a year, but you should keep that handy like, okay, this is my product that should carry water, but maybe in one year I can change it or it doesn't make sense or the competitor are doing something different. So the users are asking for something different. I found a different niche. I found a different opportunity and we started talking about it and crafting the vision. It's important to have more people in the room that we discuss different point of views. So when there are some recipes to go through it and it's really nice to exercise. And it's one person here first. In your scene, you have great engineering team represented by Aik because he said, thank you for the task. And here it is, it's delivered. No problem. But what could happen is now I'm not going to touch this because it's working for years. It doesn't make sense. Plus, there is a super corner case I don't want to fix right now because I have to fix it. How do you deal or if you deal with this? We are caring about priorities and there is a section, there is one another person who was hidden. It's a scrum master. I am lucky. I really have one. And if there is this type of things, it's about a matter of evaluation. So how much this corner case is important? Are you releasing a single customer or like replacing a lot of customers? Oh, a lot of customers. Oh, it had once in a while. Just like this. Jupiter crosses Saturn. Oh, it happens. Okay. But how important this is against other things that customers are, it will benefit other people. So it's about there. And how long is in the backlog? Oh, it's here for five years. Probably it's not important. Otherwise, we would have done that before. Is there a nice way how to tackle technical debt or like long term investment or why do you have to start with need some technical preparation? Do you? I have an answer. Oh, cool. I am right now working with the project, which is a very long project, I would say 20 years. And we have a technical debt. And we have also the features which are very important and other stuff. And we started with sprints. And when we started with sprints, we have a one goal to finish everything in the sprint. We should plan in the way that we finish everything. What is in the sprint? If we don't finish what is in the sprint, it is going with technical debt. And I call this type of backlog technical debt because it means we just touch it. And we didn't do that properly. And every time when I have a sprint planning again, I am looking for this very small backlog. And I am and I am asking myself, do we still need it? Or this is out of our scope and we can close it at all. The other technical debt which maybe you are talking about is the old stuff which we didn't do in the past. Okay, if it is important, I have it in the priority. That's my answer. Can I reply or do we have time? You guys have one minute. One minute. I will do my best. So some people have some strategies to deal with that and keep it alive. So maybe dedicating 20% of the sprint or whatever you are doing or like a rotation every time someone is taking a look at some item in the technical backlog. So you can explore that in different ways. But the message is don't let it die. You need to look at that and be friendly. Okay, let's try to handle this and bring engineering to decide what is the most important thing. So it's time to say thank you. It's time to say thank you and goodbye. Thank you.