 Governor Samuel Autumn of Benristate has stated that the Nigerians in the country are feeling very sorry for electing President Mohamed Abouhari and the all-progressive Congress APC in 2015 considering the level of insecurity and biting economic hardship in the country. Now the governor said all was not well in Nigeria and there was every need for the president to listen to the cries of Nigerians and come up with policies that would mitigate the economic hardship in the country. Also the former head of state, General Abdul Salam Abubakar, has also stated that Nigeria is facing many challenges on multiple fronts and unless the government musters the courage to unite her sundry ethnic nationalities the country will continue to struggle and realize its potential. The former head of state particularly called on the leadership of the country to listen to the voices of reasons that often points the way out of the challenges being faced by the nation. Joining us to discuss this is Joseph Hayab, he is the Kaduna State Chairman of the Christian Association of Nigeria. Thank you so much Revan Hayab for joining us. Thank you too for having me. Apologies for the delay. So the former head of state and the Benristate governor seem to be in tandem because their message seems to all meet at a certain point. In other words they are saying the government needs to listen to the plight of the people but first he talks about the fact that, I am talking about the Benristate government, that the Buhari administration has made Nigerians feel sorry or regret even voting him into power. But looking around, in realistic terms can we just really just blanketly say that the Buhari administration has not in any way done something that is worthy of praise? What I do know is that Nigerians came out in March in 2015 to vote for Buhari to become president because people were already worried, angry, disturbed with the poor delivery that was going on at that time. People had so much hope that Buhari was going to bring transformation, corruption will no longer be business as usual, insecurity will disappear and many of that good things are people we are looking up to and if you know that how the Buhari group came out and did their campaign, they promised many Nigerians heaven and earth, they show that they have a lot of good things to offer. Yet sadly today we are subbing in to their leadership and there is really nothing to offer. So the call by, or the statement from Otum and also the call by the former president of the Salania workers is actually coming just about few weeks or three weeks after the Northern Elders Forum through their spokesperson came out to also show how they regret voting Buhari. I think the lesson we have learned now is as Nigerians we must no longer vote anybody based on sentiment. We must not also allow people to come and cut off with sweet tongue and then we jump to vote for them and tomorrow we regret. But let's go back to 2015 and the years before the president was finally able to become president. He is one of the Nigerian leaders if not the only one that eagerly wanted to be president of this country tried many times and at the fourth time he became president. Now the governor of Benrey State is saying that recently, I mean recently the president talks about his rice pyramid. The governor Otum is saying that that rice pyramid is fake. He says that Nigerians cannot be displaying rice, rice pyramid of sorts when they are actually in reality hungry. He is saying that this president and this government, this administration is not sincere but this president, this administration ran a campaign of anti-corruption. They ran a campaign of saying they are going to change the economy and the walls of Nigerians and they were going to bring us change, a profitable change. They said they were going to turn around the fortunes of Nigeria. They were going to try as much as possible to put an end to insecurity and just as you pointed out, we are almost at the close of this administration and you are telling me alongside the Benrey State governor that all of the things that we hoped for, none of these things are achievable even at the close of this era? Can I speak in nothing to write home about all that has happened in the last seven years? I think what is going on is that we have been governed by propaganda. The same propaganda that brought them into power is the same propaganda that they have driven. You brought the issue of rice pyramid. Let me say that it was actually a wood pyramid covered with some few bags of rice. When I saw that photo, I had to post it on my status acting whether this photo is true. And I realized that many people who saw them when they were building this wood before they now bring some few bags of rice and covered it and they are telling Nigerians that they have millions bags of rice that very soon we will have no more problem of rice. Why do you continue this deception? You think you used Nigerians to build this. You didn't use spirits. So these people that when they were constructing this pyramid, they had photographs. They sent these photographs to their people. So why do we continue to lie? I think one of the greatest undo of this administration is the inability to admit that look, there are things we have not been able to do. We want to do that. We have constraints. But every day they come with this lie. Tomorrow they come with this lie. Next tomorrow they come with this lie. And so it's every day lie, lie, lie, lie, lie. And you see, you cannot continue to lie forever. The truth will definitely come out. Unfortunately for this pyramid, it wasn't even up to today. Nigerians knew that what we saw, the big ceremony that was held in many televisions was another gimmick. So we have to say to the president and his team that this last laugh or this last year that God is going to allow him to rule us, let's him tell his team to be honest with Nigerians. Begin to be honest. Things you cannot do be honest. Nigerians will forgive you if you understand honesty. But when you keep lying, you know there is this story about a woman in Kathina, maybe some years back, when she even asked that is it true that Buhari is leading or Jonathan is still the president? Because all that is promised them that Buhari is going to do, she has not seen it. So she's wondering whether Jonathan is still the president. And I can tell you, millions of Nigerians are thinking the same. Buhari has been in Kathina in the last 48 hours. If you see the true video of reality, people are saying bam or so, which means in Hausa we don't want. But you know, the people who brought him will now edit and only show the one that shows people hailing him. And the real truth of people expressing their anger will be covered. So this is the situation we are in. But I hope that you will heed to the reasoning and the advice of General Abbas Salami Abu Bakar. We must do something to unite Nigeria. We must do something to win the trust of Nigerians. The reason why we are where we are today is because Nigerians no longer trust anything government is saying. Before we get to what the former head of state had to say, bit by bit, let's go again to the issue of insecurity. The president was in Kaduna State, just as you said, to commission some things. You are obviously from that state. Did the president address the issue of insecurity? Let's not forget that Kaduna at some point became a playpen for these bandits. And it seemed a bit overwhelming for not just the governor, but even security agents in that particular part of the country. And this is also a detail for what's been happening in Zamfara and other states around the north. What did the president say? Did he address the issue? How serious did the people of Kaduna State take Mr. President's talk on insecurity? I'm asking this because the governor of Bennett State had also knocked the federal government's handling of insecurity and all that's been happening. The killings and, of course, the number of people that have been kidnapped, some that have been able to regain their freedom, he's knocking all of that saying that the government has not done well in that area. Did you say that Mr. President had forced the lack of sincerity of government to tackle insecurity? Because the president of Nigeria is in Kaduna and there is a document flying which is proposed to have come from government that about 11 local governments had to cop out each 10 million error for security in 48 hours for the visit of Mr. President. One of the local government actually had to cop out 15 million. So altogether, 115 million just for security according to that document. Okay, if they can spend such money to secure the visit of Mr. President. Before we fly with this information, can we... I'm sorry, Reverend Hayab, I'm so sorry to speak over you. Before we fly with this, how can we authenticate that particular document? Because the information that is in it is a very heavy one, but can we authenticate it before we even start talking about what's in it? It could just be a propaganda. It could just be the director of admin and finance. It has a letter headed that is of a particular ministry. It is the responsibility of that ministry to come out and debunk or say that later is not true. It is not my job. I am a citizen who have a right to reach and understand what is the content of a document that is supposed to be coming from my government. Unless the government comes out and tell us something contrary and convince us beyond reasonable doubt. For now, that is what is available in the public domain. But what we are really concerned is, the president even didn't talk to condemn the bandit, reminding all that he was ever attacked in Kaduna. So in other words, since you were ever attacked, if the attack was now, we shouldn't feel anything because you were ever attacked. So they are the kind of approach that we are giving to a serious matter as if we really do not care, as if we really do not show concern. But you know, his recent interview in one of the national media should have many of us to know that we should stop expecting too much from the president because when he was asked what is his thought about 2023 and the response he gave shows that we are in a serious problem. We just need to work hard to continue to sustain what is here now for future leaders that may come and confront this evil insecurity and defeat it. But now we will only be here wait a week and nothing more. Recently we saw a protest within, you know, from the northern youths saying enough is enough. We saw them protesting different parts of the north saying that they've been abandoned, the president has been silent. This is also one of the pointers to the somewhat lackluster attitude towards fighting insecurity but on the other hand we see that our security forces are overly stretched. We see that even the police is also overly stretched but the question is can we only put this at the feet or at the doorsteps of the federal government because yes of course we know that government's number one duty is to protect lives and property but that's also the responsibilities of governors in those areas. I'm sure that you're going to tell me that well on paper they're chief security and they're unable to do anything but then we're advocating for state policing. Will that be able to solve the problem if our governors don't seem to be up to the task themselves? Well, governors took out of office to defend the constitution and what the constitution requires of them is to protect lives and property. I don't take any governor who would tell me that look I am not in charge of security, no. I know very well that the governors may be not in charge of security on paper but in reality they manipulate the security situation as far as it's concerned. The fact that some of them come to Abu Dha every day to come and ask the IG to give them the kind of CP they want. The director of SSS who seems to be questioning some of the SSS they will ask his director general to post him out of their state. So you see, you cannot eat your cake and have it. When you choose the kind of CP you want, you want the CP that will be saying yes sir to you. You want the director of SSS or state director of SSS that will be saying yes sir to you. A commander of civil defense that will be saying yes sir so that you just give him money. Then your citizens will suffer. The state will continue to be opposed to evil. So I think generally is that those standing with the responsibility of leadership are fair. They lack tactics to defend. They lack tactics to provide security. They lack the knowledge to do anything for the people than just keep the phony public money. That's why we are concerned with this letter and we are worried if this letter is true then this is sad. So the whole thing about insecurity is to keep milking us, keep taking money from us not really to secure us or protect us. Recently my governor came out and I quote and said that look he wants military to go and crush the bandits and kill the bandits and wipe them off all over the forest. And we will say wow this is what we wanted you to say long before. But when this insecurity started you became the defender of the bandits. You were speaking for the bandits. You were protecting and look those of us who we are crying that they were killing our brothers we were caught as enemies of government. That's why even when some people in the north now cry some of us used to say wait a minute that was the same thing that was happening to us when we were crying. And when we were crying you trapped us enemies of Buhari or enemies of the party or enemies of a particular government. You didn't understand the things we were going through. So now the whole thing is going around. Some people are beginning to have their share and now they are also crying the way we cry. But you see this is the problem. Unless we unite and call a spade a spade and say no to any form of evil these criminals will not stop. Because I conclude by saying that one of the reason the governor is asking that they should wipe them out now is because he knows very soon he will be a free citizen like me. So he is afraid that they may come after him. He didn't care when we were crying but because he is afraid of his own thing he said they should kill them. Why did you refuse when we are calling that they should go after them? This is the kind of people that make insecurity continue to grow and have branches and units in the north that today we cannot really fight them. Finally let's talk about the economy. I mean inflation figures have dropped to 15.4% recently. It's a four-year high which used to be 18.7% in March of 2021. Now all of these figures putting together its suspect because you look again at the issue of under-employment and unemployment. It doesn't tally. The government will tell us that things are going to get better but we don't see. Then again we are also saddled with the issue of taking out subsidy. The subsidy removal is one thing that the NOC has been dragging the government on and on about. The cost of living in Nigeria continually goes high but of course the purchasing power of the average Nigerian is still meager. These are some of the things that Nigerians are frowning at and the government keeps telling us to tighten our belts and hope for the best. This is one of the things that the former head of state pointed to. He is also talking about the fact that we need to blur the lines of ethnicity, ethnic divisions, religious divisions. These are the things that actually make us Nigerians. Unfortunately we look at our brothers and our sisters as somebody from this place or that place and we do not necessarily look at ourselves as Nigerians. How do we come together to get our governments at all levels to be accountable to us if we have these many divisions all across the country? Everybody knows that the inflation rates in Nigeria now have gone high. Our economy is not producing, it is only consuming. Though we listen to figures from government that shows as if we are moving out but the reality is that we are going deep deep inside because people are suffering. The economy power is not there, the opportunities are not there. Look, one thing that would have helped us is the food production but due to insecurity we have not been able to produce enough food to eat. And that is why the pyramid issue came up because when you look at the cost of rice and other foods within the last three months you will be afraid for how Nigeria will be going into this year and knowing that it is a political year. Having said that, our government has really not done enough to address our economic challenges. What the government always do is that come up with some fire brigade approach, give us some false hope and make us believe that things are going to change but when you go to the market the next day you find things are going. When this government wanted to come to power, one of the things they attacked the previous government was that they said look, there is no way you will claim to be paying subsidy if someone is stealing the money. Today we keep paying subsidy and the fact is that the cost of petroleum has even increased. Then we have not done anything for seven years and we are just coming out without any alternative or any circle. We are now increasing for price and the man who will suffer depends is still the common man. So this is where we are not doing this right. Then let me conclude by responding to the key thing that the president said, the former president said. The truth about it is that unless we deliberately find a way of ensuring that Nigeria youth have jobs to do, criminality and insecurity will not stop in Nigeria. Because many of these young men are jobless and they are ready to do any evil as long as it is going to bring them food. Don't forget, those in power recruit their friends, give them money to lie, to accuse and to insult everybody. So some of them may not have the spirit to go and do what those in government are doing to get money. So they will do the other evil to get money because every evil is evil. So government will deliberately do something to secure or to provide jobs for the people. And if government doesn't do that, I'm sorry to talk over you. A company that is going to provide about 120,000 jobs is among the facilities the president is commissioning. We salute the governor and the government for doing this but 120,000 jobs is not enough. Because the teaming masses that are jobless are in millions. So let's not start celebrating what cannot really stop anything. But if we sustain things like this, if we had been doing this long ago, probably we would have reached about 10,000, 20,000 and so. In Kaguna State today, every day you will see adverts. Tomorrow again the same government is sacking people, but advertising. So people will see contradiction every day. There is no clear court. Those that they have even employed, they have not paid them in the last eight months. That's the kind of confusion that people don't understand. Let me talk about the need for unity among the various tribes and ethnic nationalities in Nigeria. We're out of time so quickly. Yeah, you see Nigerians must learn to love their fellow brothers. I cannot fight a man who is suffering like me. Then I defend an institution that do not care about the two of us. I think what the leaders of Nigeria have done is to divide the various tribes and we fight among ourselves and then they keep looting and doing the evil that we are complaining. But if leaders will deliberately create an avenue for people to come and talk as brothers, talk as members of one family. Just as we were celebrating the victory of super ego. If we celebrate and do not care about religion, do not care about religion, do not care about identity, then we should find something that will unite us and we talk as Nigerians. Celebrate each other as Nigerians, defend each other as Nigerians. We have to go. If not, our situation is getting out of hand. I want to say thank you to you Reverend Hayab is of course of the Christian Association of Nigeria Kaduna State Chapter. Thank you so much for speaking with us. Thank you too for having me. Well, thank you all for staying with us. We'll leave you with the highlights of the week because we've had very interesting conversations on plus politics from Monday to today. I am Mary Anna Colon. I'll see you next week. Have a good evening. It makes some of this is making it difficult. But the moment it becomes philosophical, philosophical framework of the government, that this is how it supposed to be. Both the federal and everybody will join in making sure that we have 40 monthly levels between the architecture. What they are saying? So the point that you are having is selling here, there and there, because the federal government has not yet convinced on the way to go. On the other hand they have more understanding of what you mean by federalism. The only federalism, only in Nigeria, if I had this kind of long-sighted federalism or what they call you the three federalism, it doesn't have to apply to federalism. There's no point of the world if I federalism like this. So it's a moral of will power to take the right position to achieve the right result. So it is better late than never that the governor has come to see that look, if we keep quiet and we keep waiting for this federal government, we will die. Our people will keep dying. And the problem now is that not even the economic sabotage that they put. The head has that we are suffering. Young babies born are suffering. Pregnant women are suffering. Strangers with visitors are suffering. We will live here suffering. You wash your white clothes. I like putting on white clothes. You wash your white clothes, spray them, you wake up, you turn to black. You go and take your pants in the morning to go to work. In your clean bathroom, the next thing you find out everywhere is that. In fact, it is something we cannot take. So we now have to take our dust in our hands. Only one party in this entire country, out of all the party that has the PDT, has rotation, has a requirement, PDT. Not any other party. When we say competence should be prioritized, it includes everybody who has come out to say that the community is good and people come themselves. There are quite possible that the most competent Nigerian out of all the lot, who is asking to be trusted with power, will come from themselves. We can't go for a southerner. We are not saying, absolutely, only a northerner is competent enough to be president. We are saying prioritizing how no one has a right to circumcise the right of northerners has hired to be president of this country after a period of time to be candidates for their parties, to make them candidates, or to be voted for by other countries. Of course, if you do this, we are circumcising. Because then all of us will be to the role of the first. And you say, you are not only a competent candidate, all of you can vote. I thank you very much, but no, it works for us. Democracy doesn't exist in consensus. Because consensus could just be a trick through which some strong people may want to impose a candidate only caucus. And then when you complain, they say, we built a consensus. So that may not be democratic. That's where the problem is. And that, I think, at the end of the day, the president may simply still sign it, even if it doesn't get his way. But as I said earlier, these are the popular schematics as we progress towards this electoral act. The truth is this, somehow somewhere, because of the way the northern part of the country was hospitable, a lot of people or some generation of illegal immigrants took advantage either because of cultural affiliation or religious affiliation or tribal affiliation and infiltrated Nigeria. And many of them, maybe old generation, but their children are those who today are vampires, they are chameleons, they are lepros and they are venomous. All I can tell you is this is the reason why I prefer citizenship to anything called religion or tribe or other things. And this is my example I will give. Whether you like, be as christianic as anything, you will never be allowed into Rome or the Vatican city or into Israel if there is no proper documentation.