 Welcome to the metal voice today on the show the first time ever on the show after 13 years. We finally got Steve Hackett Hi there guitarist extraordinaire You know his solo work with Genesis GTR and it goes on and on and on forever. It's a pleasure to have you Steve For me you're part of you. You're one of the most unsung heroes. I find you know, like you should be a Household name like Eddie Van Halen. That's how I look. Oh, well, there we go. Yeah, well, I Love Eddie's playing, you know, that was great and He credited me with an influence. That's good enough for me fries I'm concerned, you know, I think a lot of guitars guitarists are usually very generous with each other and have met influences and I think perhaps drummers are more competitive I thought It's more aggressive more aggressive So different world Let's start off right at the top. Okay, you know, you're you're coming on tour. You're coming on tour It's a foxtrot at 40 plus your solo material, correct Well, 50 actually it's foxtrot at 50. So we're out by a few years there, but if you wanted to I Don't mind you can take years off my life. That'll be good. I like it. I like that I should get my calculator next time I do this. Okay. So foxtrot at 50 plus your solo material Tell everybody what to expect in terms who have not seen your show yet Just tell everybody what they could expect as the tour starts in Montreal on October 3rd Yeah, that's right Foxtrot is a Genesis album from 1972 originally So it's it's not just 50 years ago. It's 50 years plus because of COVID catch up. We're still doing that We haven't taken the This show to North America yet. We have Played it extensively in in Europe, Scandinavia other places in the world and finally we get to take it to Canada we get to take it to America and And I think it's one of Genesis classic albums Of a certain era. There were two that are my favorites I think foxtrot and selling England away my two favorites of the ones I did during my time with Genesis with Peter Gabriel You know, and then there's a couple with Phil Collins when he took over on vocals that I did afterwards but I think it's It's a classic and the version that my band did at Brighton in the UK It's it's gorgeous it it looks and sounds wonderful and It's an app I think it's an absolute classic if you like if you liked early Genesis if you liked What we now think of as progressive stuff, although we didn't know the time that was what we were gonna be Called then I think I think it's a must for music that's detailed and at times complicated, but then the The style of music is pan-genre it ranges from Sci-fi to social comment to humor Many things it's most of the most of the songs are stories they tend not to be Boy meets girl Aliens invasion alien invasion and maybe a little bit of us, you know, it's you know the book of revelations or somewhat of that Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, boy meets girl meets revelations. It's meets the beast. Okay. I got you the beast Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah hanging out with the beast man. We could have called it Here's the question it seems to be you are the only I would say former Genesis member that's still Keeping that era of Genesis alive will call Peter Gabriel era, right? Yes. Yes There's a reason why I think it's a visit It's an aberration that the others don't but I think the band became something else Later on post Peter Gabriel or or post MTV should we say? Yeah But I'm talking about music from an era when John Lennon gave us a name check and said You can sit at Genesis to be True songs of the Beatles and I'm very very proud of that and it's this era that he was talking about so You can hear that influence if you hear willow farm in the middle of supper's ready great-long piece You can hear Beatles all over it. Let's be honest. It's it is really some of war us if it's anything so willow farm Walrus farm indeed. It's kind of circus music in a way. You know, it's cartoon music. It's it's parody It's it's send up There's a kind of Wardville tradition that it's drawn from as well That word at vaudeville is a very good way to explain it or give that image of what that music is. Yeah, yeah, that's right, you know so it's It defies description really but The stuff on Foxtrot is is it's very wide-ranging as a lot of different styles as I say pan genre is Is how I see it's inclusive music There's so many styles that were being Hinted at on on that album So I I think the original sounds good, but I think the live version that I've done, you know 50 years plus later with my band. I think it sounds better because we can play it better. It's more in time It's more in tune these guys are virtuosos were a genesis at that time We're a young band struggling to be able to keep up with the ideas that of the entire team were able to come up with together so Yep, and you can say oh, yeah Well, that's sacrilege and shoot me down in flames, but hey, you know turn you've heard What this sounds like in its entirety which Genesis did not do Genesis never did Foxtrot in its entirety some songs were considered to be too difficult or Insufficiently audience worthy but now with the passing of time the fact that it's been Come to be regarded as a as a classic all the songs past master even the little quiet ones and Stuff like timetable and horizons They've all found their place You know when you're a young band there are different priorities, of course, you know Audiences haven't heard of you best foot forward do all the loud songs blah blah blah But those subtleties of course could be brought into it all these decades Later, so I think it's a really good So so well explained and I would I would also agree with you that so what I do I'm a fan of Genesis especially the Gabriel era I Watched some clips on YouTube when when Peter was fronting the band Yeah, doing supper's ready doing a timetable or camera. What's what from that from Foxtrot era? Yeah, and then I watched your performances of the same songs, you know a few years back with your band Yeah, you've taken it to another level like you've kept the essence of The classic sound but you've updated the sound experience and the visual experience And I think you've done a fabulous job, but and I'm not just saying that anyone could attest anyone who watches can attest to this Well, thank you for saying that I think It was always difficult music to put it across, you know, you were stretching the audience's patience You know great long pieces. It's the opposite of what radio friendly music is all about I mean Complete opposite it's the complete over but then it's it's it's an experiment Yes, and no one's saying that that you can't do it. It's It's just I don't think bands sound like that anymore So but that doesn't make it an anachronism. It just means that There's a different emphasis now I think that the music change when when the 1980s happened it seemed to me as if everyone was Trying to get on on the right side of everyone wanted to be an MTV's friend and Albums tended to become collections. I'm not saying in every case, but they tended to become collections of potential hit singles You know, I don't this stuff You're only as good as your last hit single and all that everybody felt that pressure but we're way beyond that now and as As a good friend said to me fairly recently and he's a very well-known singer He said we're too old to be pop stars and Absolutely, right don't confuse You know someone my age with a pop star You kind of you cannot do it. You cannot do it credibly. You can't you've got to do what you do best and and and stick to it and if that turns people on one wonderful and and if it if it means that Radio turns a blind eye or a blind ear to it. That's entirely expected. So we're back to a time when music functioned by word of mouth or by Social media, which is basically your extended Friends, but you can always go and check it out. You can check out YouTube. You can check out all the rest It's there's masses of it out there And I just keep going with what I think is the best music And that includes Solo stuff as well So with this show not only is there foxtrot. There's also a Carton member if it's 40 minutes 50 minutes or an hour of solo stuff But that's first of all some of that stuff I did with Genesis in the first place So, you know, there's at least three tunes that I did with the band So it's another it's another sort of if not and then there were three It's another sort of it's another trio that could have gone that way and indeed did for my first solo outing So I think it's got a lot to offer. It's it's a really great show if I may say so I'm very proud of it and good and you should be and you should be um, let's talk about your tar work Okay, you talked about Eddie Van Halen at the start. Let's just clear this up for the people who don't know you Yeah, the finger tapping the hammer-ons. This is something you are doing and I know you've been asked this question You know many many times, but let's just clarify this Yeah, you're doing the hammer-ons of finger tapping and you could see that in supper's ready You can see that in the musical box You can see if you watch your show or watch any visuals that you're actually doing what Eddie Van Halen was doing Sort of like Eddie at a sort of a starting point for Eddie. I guess. Yes. Yeah level. So tell me about that Well, it's prototype tapping. Yeah, the technique that I did and that he named That's something that I was doing from 1971 onwards. You can hit on nursery crime. I just saved musical box You can hear it on on Return the giant hogweed on the same album you can hear it on Another another album studying the by the power of the first track dancing with the moonlit night. Yes Yes, when we were inducted when we were inducted into the rock and roll Hall of Fame I mean the band fish they were talking about that about the guitar solo So the first thing that gets talked about was was that guitar solo which included sweet picking tapping and octave jumps Which all of which I think, you know, it's all part of the glossary of terms You know, no no heavy metal guitarist will be you know, they wouldn't want to be seen dead without being able to do all of those things You're gonna look at all those things because it's all part of part of the language of that and it's not just delinquent You know guitar playing even at its most aggressive and certainly in the hands of ready who you were talking about You know, it's very it's very accomplished. It's very thought about, you know, you can't you can't blister through all those those salvos Without putting in the time. It's not just a couple of power chords Hey, here we go. It's It takes time to do all that all that stuff. It's the only part of it though Yeah, yeah did so so you're doing this in 72 73 on stage Was there so just to clarify was ever a point where Eddie Van Hill and Technology doing person or he just in print. He said oh, I really I think what? it's it's it's in print or it's in interviews that he gave and I've never met him, which is a great great But I would have liked to have he worked with my friend Brian May not a guitarist of extraordinary distinction They had worked together So and I work with Brian on a couple of things so I think it might have been a natural Sequence of events that Eddie and I may have done something together at some point I certainly did stuff with Steve how and I've been working recently on stuff with I've noticed your t-shirt with Steve Rothery So yeah, you mentioned you leave Rothery, and I've got something in me in the pipeline as well So there's lots of stuff to come as well as you know the stuff in the past And just just going off on a tangent when GTR sort of fell apart Yep Is it how much truth was it that you're kind of working with Brian May from Queen sort of to pick up the pieces on? GTR or at least start a new project Well, I've decided that you know that for me GTR would come to the end of its of its shelf life and I Was I'd started up a solo project and Brian may it became involved We were talking about doing a double header His commitments made that difficult to pull off So it became another solo thing for me as opposed to a successor to GTR, but Semantics really We did some nice stuff together Brian's a great great player as you know And another another Brit, of course, and he's come up with He and his father came up with a wonderful a guitar design I've got one of those one of his red specials And it sounds just like Brian. It's got that other harmonic thing. It's got that sort of that sort of sound so I Guess, you know, we can all end up impersonating each other if if we want It all depends, you know, how far down that route do you want to go? But you know not just as a guitarist, but as an inventor as a as a craftsman You know, he has that and and also scientific qualifications, too So I'm happy to sing August others You know, it's funny. I just want to go back to the Eddie Van Halen thing So I spoke to Chris Holmes who's a guitarist of WASP who's good friends with Eddie Van Halen He told me he said that can't heat I think it's Harvey Mandel from canned heat was doing finger tapping at that same era Whereas he learned and then Terry I can't remember his last name, but Terry click Kilgore Learned it from him then he kind of taught it to Eddie Van Halen But at the same time he saw you doing it and he saw Jimmy Page doing it So he sort of right took all those influences and created something new But as I say, you know, it was 1971 Yeah, oh, yeah on on electric It's It's a moot point. I believe that I Believe that it was being done on an acoustic guitar although I only found out that laterally earlier still as a as a classical Technique and a way of doing all sorts of things trills The sky's the limit. Basically, it's a way of playing very fast. Let's let's just you know I think the beauty of your plan that you always play to the song That's the beauty of your guitar solos and your guitar work you're always playing to the Sort of the intensity or the dynamic of the song and you just don't overdo the tapping or you just you just you're all You know, you you you're playing to the emotion of the song always I find Well, funny enough, it's something that Phil Collins said about songs He said, you know, you've got to do the right thing for the particular song that you're doing with I'm paraphrasing him here, but You know, he could have spent his time Being Billy Cobham on everything but that wouldn't have fitted That wouldn't have fitted all those songs that he did subsequently so you take something from here you take it from there and It comes out as you in the end each each of these people Contribute something none of us invented music We all heard it when we were kids. We became fan of it and and The muse has stayed With us. Yeah, whether you're in body or you're in spirit and I do probably people live on and Sometimes their effect can be even more powerful when they've passed. I mean look at the lake rate Jeff Beck Who amongst this has not been influenced by Jeff Beck every time he's picked up a guitar and puts an echo and distortion on it Never mind feedback finger vibrato and You know pinched harmonics and so many things and the melodic sense. So I guess I'm from a long line of Guitarist I'm standing on the head Or rather on the shoulders of giants or perhaps, you know, it's all a footnote to the greatness of Of others and I'll I include Madri's Segovia in that as well. So we haven't mentioned Segovia We haven't mentioned Jimi Hendrix, but they all gave something unique to the guitar and We're all I think modest in their own way If the era between so you played with Gabriel and his sort of his His three or four was it four or five albums that he was on and then you played with Phil Collins as the Phil Collins led Genesis and the Prague era will call it What do you find were the The the pros and cons of each era like when you played with Peter led Genesis versus a Phil Collins led Genesis What were the highlights and maybe the downsides of both those eras? Well, I think you know people tend to feel that if there's a singer and it's a lead singer Then you know, he's responsible for everything, but Genesis was a soul writers collective. So the fact that we survived peter's departure Was important that was It wasn't just a case of you've got the sort of the Jagger Richard thing that they write it all and that's How it is or yellow where it's basically one guy You've got you got something else. You got a team putting it together. So the teamwork is important the stuff we did with Pete was I Think extremely important Really really clever marvelous lyrical ideas And I think his sense of theatricality Rivaled Alice Cooper at times once he embraced that totally what that means is that An audience that might have walked up during an earlier era of Complicated music when you had visuals to accompany it That made a big difference. So production values show itself That's what really makes the difference and so You know, you hope that if you're in a band like Genesis, you're gonna survive the departure of your lead singer You hope that you're gonna survive the departure of or leading the group as I did But what survives is is the quality of the music. So I figure it's for me It's whatever Genesis started out as and whatever they became Whatever we became they became It's putting the fire back into Genesis as far as I'm concerned Genesis became very fiery one point. It started out 50-50 acoustic and as a band it became very hard edged indeed So I think You've got to take it at its best. You've got to say, okay, this is where I got a ball. What do I love about Genesis? Yes, I love watch of the skies. Okay, that's Pete's era. Yes I love dance on a volcano or Los Andos. That's for Collins era, but it's the whole band putting that stuff Together there's a band with no passengers. That's what you've got Search for, you know seek out and destroy you've got to do that. You've got to have a band Where people have all got their intents Desired to do it and they've all got to have their own muse as well. You've got to just You've got to have that you've got to have that fire because otherwise if he doesn't catch fire for you guys in rehearsal He isn't going to catch fire in front of an audience At what point did you say, you know after a few albums with Phil Collins led? Did you say you know what this is just not for me or Maybe you you felt like the input you weren't given as much input in the band or what was going through your mind in terms of leaving? I think you know, I joined a band that was a Democracy as songwriters collective I left a band that was becoming a dictatorship and I think that that When I was told by Mike and Tony that I could no longer do solo work The hackles rose there because They also wanted to control who was writing the songs and that wasn't the basis that I joined the band on so Great band probably the best band in the world, but at the end of the day You can't keep a good hack it down. So you've got You've got to be true to yourself your muse your That small voice that says well, what if you know, and I'd done acolyte and it'd been a hit. It's been a success I've had these conversations with With with other people who've left left bands and gone on to do extraordinary things You've just got to accept this is the way it is, you know talk to rick waitman it's You can function within a band but then You get to outgrow the group unless the group is prepared to be relaxed enough to let everyone do solo work And I think once a band starts to lose Once it starts to lose people, uh, you know, it lost Peter Gabriel It lost me similar sort of circumstances in terms of of being told that you can't have a parallel solo career All of that and you figure well, why not because it would have strengthened the band and of course The great poetic justice at the end of the day was that phil cullen's solo career outpaced the band in terms of of sales. So, um, I think, um Uh, I think that's ironic justice for them But but but there we are, you know, I still love The guys in the band, uh, it's different now. We're all very much older and I think that Uh, I think there would have been a rethink if anyone had been Senseful enough frankly, you know, why would you want to lose? Uh, uh, singer of the quality of Peter Gabriel, you know, great great performer writer humanitarian all of that Um, uh, you know, you have to allow people Room to grow you you can't run a band by thinking that you own people You can't run it like that, you know, you can't suppress When you were hired when you were those you joined when you joined the band Were you a a member an equal member or were you just a hired gun? No, I was I was a fully fledged equal member. That's what I joined. Uh, that's how I I joined on the understanding that there will be that, you know, I I joined on the understanding That there would be a mellotron. I joined on the understanding But there will be a light show that we would work towards these things. I joined on the understanding that we would get Uh, a synthesizer. I joined on the understanding that we would become more than Uh, a folk singing band All these things that now the bands surpassed my Intentions and desires for it Incredibly, you know by the time we were doing Uh Arenas every night and filling three nights in london's world's court 18 000 people a night um I felt You know job done now. I've got to see what I can do on my own and of course the lake rate richie havens happened to be on the bill that we We asked him to join us We became pals. We then went on to work together with his keyboard player at the time davila bolt and um It's it's very interesting. Dave went on to work with david bowie Um Richie went on funnily enough to work with um, peter gabriel on a project called the story of oboe Which was a concept album that was designed for the millennium dome in in london and Richie said to me Yeah, peter phoney met and said but I got this song. I was going to sing it myself But I figured you might do a better job To him. So this was a compliment played to you know paid to the lake rate richie havens um and You know, what a voice what power And on the same album I got to work with Uh randy crawford Um many other extraordinary people Steve wash I work with the kansas guys Uh, so I was really into um at that time uh Everything I was doing on on on on the album that I that I did as soon as I left which was pleased and touched was I thought why don't we do a kind of personal compilation album every song should be at a tangent to everything else So that from one song to the next you don't recognize the same team It has to be fluid. It's just I guess it's a songwriter's thing and a and a producer's thing more than a guitar hero's album um They won't have some sort of consistency. That's what it is the producers, right? Well, that that that's it. I think that you know, it's it's it's variety. I think was it's it's strength um According to turni stratton smith. It was the label boss of of charisma, you know, he said, um Something about it's it's its strength, you know, it's extraordinary variety is extreme and also its weakness He felt, you know, the fact that perhaps it wasn't stylistically in one direction Don't forget the era had arrived where rumors Was considered to be the perfect album for any band to do but it was Almost recognizable immediately from the first track to the last but there was a sense of Focus about it when those guides were a young band um And we like what they were doing too Yeah, let me ask you this with the exception of 1982 the reunion of genesis What were the hurdles that burning question for all genesis fans the hacket fans and gabriel fans that fill Collins What were always the hurdles of reuniting again? I could see now it might be a little too late In the game for phil Collins and some other members, but what were those hurdles? Okay, it's it's um the extreme competitors competitiveness at the core of the band And I think there's always been this idea that oh well if we let these guys back in again, you know This is going to be seen as the real band whereas the real band we want it to be seen as three-man team at one point We all had a meeting my god. This is right back in I think it's at 2005 It's a long time ago, but anyway nearly 20 years ago. We were having a meeting going And can we make lamb lies down on Broadway? The thing that we will all do together And can we do it as a musical? Is that possible? Can we use avatars? The word came up even then, you know, but Way before The You know the stuff with abba It was it was extraordinary, but there's competitiveness of root, you know That's the problem. It's I remember we you know, we had this meeting in Glasgow where Phil was doing a gig and Straightaway Tony said I think that it it won't work. It won't work as a musical. It's it's too complicated Well, if it had worked it would have changed the shape of musicals If queen could do it then I think that genesis could do it, but It's um, maybe too much power to Pete, you know because Pete very much wrote the story Not the music we all wrote the music but You know the idea of Relinquishing that amount of power and reflected glory was just a little too much for the guys Who were holding the name? Sadly because I think genesis was capable and is capable of of much much more Which are quite right that phil is not I suspect in a position to be able to do More genesis or more solo stuff, although Yeah, maybe maybe there'll be a miracle and um and that will change but it's been much much publicized that that was the end of genesis whereas For me for all sorts of reasons. I feel as though I'm just starting out. I always feel like I'm just starting out on that Well, I got to say you you you breathe life into your solo material You breathe new life into the genesis material and congrats to you um What about future albums or what are you are you working on any new material? Yeah, I'm I'm working on one moment. We're just doing well. Actually, it's as we speaking downstairs in my house Roger King's working on the 5.1 surround of a new album um So we've done the stereo mix we've done the surround I shouldn't be talking about this because publicists hate me talking about the future project Is that yeah, you should be talking about The foxtrot and and and nothing else but but you know, uh, I work in something It'll be out. I guess in the early part of of next year. I don't think that's going to stop anyone of buying foxtrot if that's you know, if you're interested I suspect I'm I'm I'm in encore time. I don't let's face it, you know, I'm I'm preaching to the converted All right, so there you have it a foxtrot at 50 and hack it highlights live I've starting knock I said what October is that it October the third starting in Montreal going through Toronto into the New York And the rest of North America. That's very exciting. I'm happy you are doing very well um, is there anything you'd like to mention before we uh Leave well, I'd probably let the cat out of the bag of too many things already, but I uh, I'm still making a noise for a living is what I say the thing that unites all musicians The one thing you can say about them is that they you know They all make a noise for a living and uh, and I think it's a privilege to do that It was always a passion. It was a hobby. It was many things. It's been a constant friend to me and I I've been very lucky Most of the parts of my body are all still working including the fingers When the brain gets clogged up I just let the muscles do the talking Yeah, it's it's been great so far and I've been very very lucky. I've been touring everywhere relentlessly in fact I'm looking forward to this tour coming up and also Next year as well. I do like the tour in life I have to say well, that's you know, it's tough on the on the hours of sleep um Is lamb lies down on Broadway next as your well, what I what I'll do is I'm not going to do it in its entirety So any tribute band out there wants to do it in its entirety Go ahead guys What I'll do is I'll do some selections from it that I That I relate to and I think work best and things where the guitars got something to say in it and um I Do really like certain parts of of the lamb And other things I I don't feel so drawn to so I'll I'll leave those behind so I'll leave it to the completists if there's any tribute band out there Best of the lamb lies down on Broadway. There's oops. Oops. We just mentioned something else. Oops That's good. No best of sounds very good. I like I like the idea best of some best of the lamb Best of the lamb. Yes. Yes And there's some something that you could say but it might upset the vegetarians, you know lamb cutlets So we can't um, we can't say that We don't want to do veggie limes. Yeah. So absolutely amazing. Yeah here was a was this released in 74 I don't remember it was originally 74 whether it came out to 74 75. I think it's out in 74 Um, I remember we were touring it Before it was released and we were touring it. I think we started out in Chicago And I'm no one that had a note of this so anyone who showed up expecting all their favorites at that point was sadly disappointed Audiences broke up into fistfights At the time I'd seem to recall it was absolute sheer mayhem But um because I was looking at the tour dates. You start to a guns. Sorry From from foxtrot sorry to cut you off from foxtrot You're playing big theaters and then when you hit lamb Actually selling England by the pound to lamb you started playing the arenas at least in north america I mean, well, um I tend to think that we were probably playing clubs and colleges first of all and then it became theaters Of course there's a smattering of theaters in there. It became in in my mind it became arenas Round about the time of trick of the tail when we had bill bruford in the band But of course we were still playing a fair amount of theaters. So theaters Where necessary arenas where possible um And it's funny, you know, I've just done south america and Just played in argentina to five thousand people in a in a boxing I don't if you can call it a stadium, but the thing just went on for miles Might have been five there might have been more in catavichia in poland. We were playing Uh an arena this same stuff Um, it probably never got played in arenas during its day not in its entirety as I say so this is a chance to see Uh, you know that album in its entirety if you like anything that genesis did in the early days I would say this is something that that would probably You know be a I think of it as as a milestone now. I now I look back on it You know when you're young you're just hoping that your your your record contract gets renewed um But who would have thought that you know 50 years plus later it would still Not just have sprouted legs but wings and it just seems to Um appeal I think to all those disenfranchised Fans who thought of genesis as as a very Fiery band yeah once live and it's a chance to get that Get that again And it's loud Well when peter actually this is my last question when peter gaberl left the band the band was in debt Did they recover when when you left the band? Was the band still in debt or you recovered from that debt? I think the band was always was always in debt for as long as I can remember it. Um, I think we were on some uh questionable deals in those days um And overheads were high It was a band that didn't stand on its live production Fortunately, we were in a position to be bankrolled at that time usually by the record company, but um Yes, I know, you know lamb was done on a Broadway. Disappointingly at that time having toured it for nine months pretty relentlessly I remember we were owing My god, what was it something like quarter of a million? Pounds never mind dollars and it would have been two to one in those days So we were in the hole for about a half a million dollars at that time How is it possible to keep going at that rate? But Uh, we did maybe the record company told you you're you owe it us money, but in fact They were making all the money and they just kind of like moving stuff around, right? I don't know if that's true, but you know, there's never been any problem with money in the music business ever before How has there so we've been in the immaculate conception? That's right. That's me especially for the artist. They're always first paid Would that you know Would that be the case? Spotify doesn't pay much, but I shouldn't really be talking about that, you know, no no the publicist nightmare Hey, you know, uh Music has been very good to me. I've made a very good living at it I've been allowed to do it. I was able to give up several really boring day jobs in order to do it Uh, and uh, I haven't looked back since then You know, uh, that's a great note to end the interview. I appreciate your time. Look forward to seeing you in Montreal And you know what best of luck to you Brilliant Thank you. Thank you so much. Nice to talk to you, Jimmy all the best. Talk to you too. You too. Bye