 Yeah, hi. Nice to see here It's been an interesting year in the Phoenix gaming industry We have seen several game companies doing initial public offerings and listing in the stock exchange We have two experts here who've gone through through the process now So it's really interesting to kind of hear hear your views on on how it how it was and and some of the the backgrounds and Why why? It's been happening right now I Guess we could kind of start with the with the why the timing because it's it seems like well Tim You were the first you listed in in March this year in the in the first north So kind of what prompted the timing and the decision now sure This might take few minutes. So We actually have to go back to You know early 2016 when I believe that strong companies Have three things in place. So you need to have your core values in place Your mission and vision like why the company exists where your headache to and then your strategy in place and we at next games like we put a lot of time in making sure that those three things are in place and We had a very clear idea on how that we want to grow the company and how much money is needed to do that and We were looking at different options the existing investors were interested in financing the the strategy Multiple, you know VCs We're interested, but you know, it's just like what one of those days when you thought about what what about an IPO like Nobody has done that before like is that an option and we started to explore what it means for the company and It took quite a few months to figure out whether it, you know, it makes sense or not, but you know at the end and We we kind of like came to a conclusion that it gives so much more than just the money You know the the visibility and all the other stuff you get with the IPO that it makes sense Obviously after that you have to talk to our different banks whether, you know, whether there's any interest from the Banks to organize the IPO to get that done and then you talk to the market and so forth so it took quite a few months, but It was by far the best option for us So the timing came from the the needs of our company We were not looking it, you know that the market is now open and we should do it now vice versa like it Was just the best option from from multiple different options and so the decision came from the leadership of the company Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. So so terror you the kind of the same question remedy has been a strong company for 20 years It's one of the oldest companies in Finland So why now what was your kind of reasoning behind the timing? I? Think they must summarize it well It is related to timing but not the timing as people typically see it how the market is going It's definitely related to strategy those of you not familiar remedy has been around for 22 years developing console and PC games. That's our focus and kind of like for 20 years it continued without Outside financing, but in a way when the company matures people mature ambition starts to rise and our latest game quantum break was about to be finished about two years ago and that was also the moment when the We had management we had the possibility again to sit down and start considering where to head next What's the next direction for the company and having done the similar type of business? Developing one in a way triple a game major game really ambitious game creatively But just one game at the time for for 15 20 years clearly kind of like the the senior level people We're all saying that with the amount of talent that we have there are so much more We can achieve both creatively and business-wise and that was the moment when we started drafting our new strategy Which was much more ambitious as I said not just creatively, but business-wise and when we had this strategy in place We thought that yes, it is realistic. It is doable It requires a lot and one of the elements it needed was was more funding We have been financially very healthy, but in a way Investing in the future growth that involves more risk We also wanted to have more backup not to be in a situation that we we invest in into our crawled and then six Twelve months later. We realize that things haven't gone exactly as planned and now our bank account is looking Really bad, so we knew that yes We will need some money to invest into our crawled But we also wanted to have the backup that even though we would have the money We would have the safety the the safety that if something gets delayed We can still go forward and the strategy timing we needed it and that was the driving force behind our listing Yeah, so but it was not just about the raising the money. It was also like having the liquidity I mean rewarding the staff as well and these kind of considerations. I suppose Yeah, sure, but I think our IPO was a bit different because like none of the existing You know founders or investors sold anything, you know vice versa in fact So all the money was raised to grow the company of course like for the employees. It's it's a Special occasion because you can see your options actually that they mean something if you exercise your you know options So, you know, of course, that's a great retention tool and works well when you're recruiting new people as well Yeah, yeah And then if I if I may add that was a good question that it's not just about liquidity and raising money That's that's of course. That's one part But many of you in the audience you may have the startup or you may have a bit later States company you have given out the options and ownership for the people but when that that continues for five or ten years and People start in a way. They see that they have some ownership They have some options But if the amounts still are not that significant that they will lock those people some of those people will have to ten or Five or ten years start considering that do my options Do my shares really have some value and what we saw when we got listed that people Kind of like almost all of our people either had direct ownership or they had options They know a finally they saw a clear value in their ownership And what happened that none of them wanted to sell them at that point But they wanted to keep it and it has clearly given a new I would say motivational boost for our people as well Yeah, yeah Definitely So still a bit more about the the kind of starting point and the process. I mean, damn you had raised funding rounds Yeah, yeah, we have many rounds that you have we had to well three if you include seed So series a was eight million usd and series B was ten million usd. So 18 million all together Yeah, yeah, and you said you know the process like you eat it took months to prepare How long was there your your process or we did you actually got a start? I would say I would say six months Yeah Yeah, did you did you have to like hire somebody for the process you? Like a personnel or or you were running it With the with the crew that you had well, you have to like hire Advisors so you need the bank first of all who's issuing the IPO then you need Legal advice so you need lawyers then you need You know price waterhouse Cooper so whoever you're using for you know your accounting and auditing that and then We had a PR agency so we had quite a few people involved Yeah, but we did not hire anyone to work for next games just because of the IPO So and even now like we still haven't hired anyone because we went public like the company's growing and the people that we've hired Would have be needed like anyhow, so yeah, okay, okay So you both listed on the first north was that was there a discussion on like on the list like who decided where would you list the company? for us The main need was to raise capital to fuel our quote So we actually did evaluate the different options. There are Financial institutions providing loan kind of like for the game industry needs that wasn't enough by itself That's that's potential one element Then we had the VC money as one option our background was a bit different because the company was Fully privately owned in a sense that it was just the management and employees that owned the company and Many of us had experiences from the VCs Most of them really positive ones, but still having this type of ownership Structure the idea of getting a VC on board with all those veto rise and preferences and others we consider that We would not like to go that route and then there was the listing option and First north in a way people easily see The public listing as as it was traditionally five or ten years ago with a lot of regulations There are still our regulations. There are requirements, but in the first note market. They are much more limited and It was it was a bit easier process, but especially now afterwards It has been much easier than it most likely would have been had we gone directly to the main list Yeah, so so how is the time after like any unseen side effects or regrets or why would you not recommend IPO to somebody? I would say vice versa. I think it's been been great You you kind of have to think about the the afterlife well before you do the IPO So we we tried to make sure that nothing would come as a surprise like I think the Maybe the only thing that Not bothers me but kind of surprised because we were the first company to go public and we had to translate The terms you use in games business in finish like you use DA you and then it's Active is it baby days at gout that and you know all that stuff So you kind of like the communicating about your business is different when you use your native language finish So that's that's something that you have to learn again because obviously you've been doing in in English like half of our Employees are not not from Finland and so forth. So English is like the language you use for for work So that's new that you need to use finish more Yeah, yeah, and I think we had been around for such a long time That for example our finance finance processes were already in order Nothing has changed in that sense that we are doing a good reporting anyway. So we didn't need to do that Maybe the maybe the kind of like one thing that of course we are transparent within the company but When you are publicly listed you need to treat all the potential shareholders equally So we cannot kind of like publicly anymore speculate that much that if our game is coming out How amazing it's going to be and how may actually how much it might sell this type of things We have to keep to ourselves within the company in the in the in the planning phases One big in a way positive thing that we didn't expect would come is that of course gaming industry is growing We are all fighting for talent trying to recruit people Over 40% of our employees come outside of Finland. So we have active recruitment campaigns going on both in Europe Asia and US and The latest people that have arrived that we have attracted from abroad They have said that now remedy having it's kind of like really great history Being an independent company and being publicly listed that they see that as a great strength Maybe because in the console gaming industry there have been studio closures And and that gives some sort of credibility at least from people coming from certain parts of the world Yeah, I think that I had a good point about Communication so once you go public and even to turning the process you really have to think about what the company is doing and why you're doing those decisions and now once you're public you When you talk about, you know your future plans or upcoming games, whatever you really have to think about how you say it and what you promise and and That process really makes you think hard like, you know, are we doing the right thing? So it kind of like puts a bit more structure for the business and decision-making also. Yeah Yeah, that's a really for the kind of external communication. Yeah How about internally has that the creative culture or the way of working has it has it changed at all? No, not really like it really doesn't change that much Of course, like, you know Some of the the topics you can't share like you used to with with all your employees Unless, you know, you like that I said all the shareholders need to know certain things But other than that, I think it's business as usual Yeah, as they like the expectations from the kind of post IPO investors been different than from the pre IPO investors Like expectations for growth or you know, are you seeing, you know different kind of demands or well? It's funny. I think nowadays we can actually manage those expectations more than before because we had like Mainly our investors come from the US and their VC companies and media companies and of course They had like their own vision on how fast the company could grow and and not not demands, but expectations But now we as a public company we let to let to We can tell our investors like what we're aiming for and and as a company again We're not giving financial targets. We're saying that how many games for example, we're gonna launch per year So it's actually a bit more pleasant in this current situation versus like before Yeah, but that's that's that's in a sense a good question because maybe you need to be in a certain phase To go public At least that in a way the vision for the company the key strategic pillars on which you are building your growth Those have to be clear enough because clearly what the investors be they in a way retail investors private investors or institutions they know a They they they want to see certain certain stability in the strategy See they want to understand where the company is heading and kind of like How it's aiming to do that and definitely they don't want to see that changing every three months time or every six months time And in a way if you are consistent in your communication and you are following your strategy It goes well then in a way if you are doing some changes, which always happen I've seen so far. Of course, we haven't yet faced a situation where we would have done a Big change, but but then you simply need to reason it You need to give those wise why you are doing those and I have seen that in order to clarify some of our Messaging for people coming outside of game industry. It's it's actually been quite refreshing Yeah, yeah, and and I have to say that you know as a gaming entrepreneur myself with a bit smaller company at the moment It's been a refreshing to see in the industry the kind of IPOs It's like a fresh breath of air in a way like we are grown up in some sense Do you see like any industry-wide reactions or or changes like is the industry grown up now in a way? Well, I agree with you like I think it has been a boost for the whole industry because you know Obviously, this is something that hasn't been done before and in one year like you said four or five Listings so it's kind of another path for companies now to make their growth happen It used to be just like VC money before and of course you need it still but you know it's kind of another way to do it and I think it's not just gaming that Got like the the fresh breath of air. It's also all the other startups in Finland in my opinion that can now Think about you know the option of going public and and you can already see it in the media all the you know Kauppalehti and though these magazines are writing a speculating like which one of of all the all the fine startups in Finland might be Doing the listing next so yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely the industry Has been maturing for a long time. This is a very concrete sign of that But but but if we take a kind of like a bit longer-term view and go back to the history in a way overall Finish gaming industry. I remember I started in 2002 back then there were only maybe 200 people in the gaming industry here and and Already at that time kind of like both the press and the kind of like government institutions They regarded gaming industry very positively. I remember for example, take as the government Funding agency for for for technology. They were maybe the biggest visionaries out of us all They were saying that gaming industry can be become a huge industry for Finland and us entrepreneurs were thinking that what that what have this Guy's taken that that they had in a way more believe maybe than we had but already back then They were saying that in order for a healthy ecosystem to be built It needs to be a pyramid that you have a lot of small companies on the bottom And then you have the medium-sized layer and then you have some of those shining stars And then those shining stars eventually came it was Rovio and Supercell But there wasn't this middle layer at least not that clear one and now clearly kind of like we are showing some examples For the wider public and there are I think something bubbling under that might might happen next year or year after that Yeah, yeah We have a few minutes of the last I would like to do explore a little bit about the future So so how do you see your company is going to the future and what is the kind of next focus areas? And I must say I heard that you both been mentioning M&A activities Anything you can share that is any any any concrete plans yet? You know what kind of companies you might be might be looking at or anything well I would say for for us. It's about executing their strategy The the one we had even before the IPO and really the one that we're executing now, so It's it's more about operational stuff that we're focusing on now like we're a games company and And our job is to launch good games. So that's what we we're gonna be focusing on and regarding potential M&A So far we've bought two companies Lumay games earlier this year a terrific company like works on AR and location-based stuff and Earlier in 2014 we bought Helsinki gameworks. So we've done acquisitions, but I don't think this Even though it's very cozy here, but I don't I don't think I should be speculating about, you know Any other potential M&A's other than obviously it's it's always an option Yes, yes, yeah, we have been we have been so far growing organically and That's still at least for now on our focus We think that there is a clear plan and you always need to of course have the Long-term vision where you are heading at but still make sure that you are implementing the one or two year strategy correctly and I think in both of our business, you know that You are typically only as good as your latest game is and we have to make that sure in this transition phase and At that point it means growing organically Yes, yes Yeah, that is that is kind of a difference in the gaming industry that there is this fluctuation in like your very project dependent Yeah, so you have to be aware of that Think we have a little bit more time. No, do you have any final comments you want to say any tips for the Waddling entrepreneurs for how to build a strong company Well, I think I've mentioned this couple of times But you know if you're contemplating a possible IPO like just make sure your strategy is in place You can explain why you need the money if you're raising money and and just have a good plan for it Like and then then it's definitely an option Among like all the other like in investment opportunities. Yeah. Yeah, exactly the IPL in itself doesn't require Anything more than you have systematically developed a good company. That's heading into a clear direction and then you may have been away the different options for exit or different options for the additional funding and Going public. It's it's just in a way one step on that route and then doing it Technically or practically as as demo said you will anyway need good advisors and they will they can guide you how to do it Yes, thank you. It's been it's been great to chat with you and then thank you for all the insights It's very good to have this Market opening opening on the gaming industry. It'll make the Finnish industry even stronger. Thank you. Absolutely. Thank you