 Alright, thanks for staying with us now. Historically, Nigeria's political system has been dominated by men, even though women constitute a larger part of the voting population, with 6.2 million out of 12.2 million newly registered voters ahead of the 2022 and 3rd general election and almost 50 percent of the nation's overall population. Nevertheless, there is growing recognition of the untapped capacity and talents of women and women's leadership. Over the last two decades, the rate of women's representation in national parliament globally has incrementally increased from 11.8 percent in 1998 to 17.8 percent in 2008 to 23.5 percent in 2018. Now, some regions have seen particularly dramatic increases, such as the sub-Saharan Africa. Now, the real question is, can women change how politics is played in Nigeria, given that these numbers are doing well globally? Now, please, let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 081-803-4663. You can also do that at Weisho Afko on the hashtag Weisho. So, ladies, I want to quickly just hear your thoughts in a minute, and I want to bring in our guest. What do you think? Is it possible for us to change the face of politics in Nigeria? Yes, I do think so. If more women, you know, educated, not educated, really, if we're able to cross the barriers, you know, limiting women into going into leadership positions, I mean, all the barriers, cultural, religious, whatever, you know, if we're able to scale through that, I think that women will play a pivotal role because we are able to think differently, you know, and when we bring that to bear in issues concerning women, children, I think that would play an important role. I think there's also a growing recognition of the untapped capacity of women in leadership positions. And I mean, I came across a UN article that said, you know, all of the SDGs have to gender equality, right? But then it said, if we continue to rate the rights, take another 130 years before we actually achieve that equality. But having said that, I think that women would actually play a very, very pivotal role in, you know, revising and reforming policies. We know, naturally, we know how women can be, right? So, yeah, I think women actually have the power to change the things that can exist. Because policies, right, if you look at policies, the way it works, there is no humaneness to some of the kind of policies that exist. Absolutely. And imagine if a woman was in charge of the policies, what then happens? It's going to be different. Let me quickly hear your thoughts on this. No more, you there? Yes, I'm here. Can you hear me? Yeah, we can hear you now. All right, yes, I totally agree with the conversation about women. It's unfortunate that still a lot of women are yet to realize the capacity that is being unveiled if they have an understanding of the power that we carry. As women, imagine that women come in and create policies that affect families, that affect society, that affect children, you know, in the education, in healthcare, in agriculture. Things will be seen from the human angle as well, and there will be sort of balance in perspectives and how issues are viewed, not just from one person's perspective, or from a holistic point of view. And that is the power that women bring to the table when they show up in situations. And we're hoping that the more awareness is created, the more women can see the great work that some women, a lot of women who have already taken on this, taken the plunge are making in the society where they are, then they can see that it's possible and support even those who are making, who are trying to push the boundaries already. I can, we would really experience tremendous change in the way things are run in our societies. Absolutely. Let me bring in our guest. Now, Abosa Day, George Organ is a tri-sector leader with almost 20 years experience working across non-profit, private and public sector as a development professional. She chairs the Gender Subcommittee of the Cross-Cutting Technical Working Group of the Nigerian National Development Plan for 2021 to 2050, I think. Now, the team. Now, she has a degree in political science and public administration from the University of Igminadion and an MSc in communication for innovation and development from Reading University and Masters in Public Administration and MPA from the Harvard Kennedy School. She is the founder of Women in Leadership Advancement Network that is willing and also the creator and the host of the leading women's show. Let me add that one. Hi, Abosa Day. And she's joined us live and you're looking amazing as always. Thank you so much, Abosa, for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. It's good to be here. I see you, you were just smiling and nodding. Especially when Chinelo was talking like, hey, hit it hard, hit it hard, you know, like this conversation is something that, you know, you leave, you eat, you breathe it, you know, because you believe so much in the power that women can wield, you know, especially in positions of governance and leadership, right? Absolutely. It was important that we brought this conversation, especially because now we're in the political season, a lot of things is happening. Yes, we've missed the we've missed the opportunity, right? But we can actually plan for the next four years. And, you know, sometimes when we see women going into politics, the first thing is people are asking questions that normally they will not ask men, right? So, I mean, not completely forgetting and completely ignoring their capacity as women to be able to do things in a way that is much deeper, with serious thought process put into that thing compared to the men, right? And we don't even look at those strengths and see that, you know what, women can actually make a difference, right? So, I mean, when we brought up this topic, I said, there's no other guest that can discuss this. What do you believe that really women can change how politics is played? So, I mean, and I just would commend everything that everybody said. I think we've laid the foundation in terms of there is no question. But let me talk a little bit about evidence, right? I think that this is such a sensitive topic, especially in Nigeria where we are, which is very patriarchal, rooted in culture, tradition and religion. So, I think it's always important to address this conversation from the perspective of facts and evidence, right? So, one of the things that we saw recently is the Corruption Perception Index that's usually published by Transparency International was published. Nigeria was ranked 150 something out of a total of 180 countries, similar to our ranking in terms of the number of women in parliament, right? Where somewhere around 4.1%. And I always say we're competing, unfortunately, with like war-torn countries. It's really embarrassing. But, you know, the Corruption Perception Index shows you that there is a direct correlation between having women in positions of leadership and the level of corruption in a country. And I use that particular, you know, statistic, yes, because if you ask any typical Nigerian, what do you want to be solved? Corruption. And I'm like, okay, well, here you go. Here's the evidence, right? Having more women in positions of power actually could reduce the level of corruption in the country, like direct correlation. So, this is like evidence. In addition to that, what you were saying about human-centric policies is something that the evidence also shows us that is a benefit of having women in political leadership positions. So, a case study that was done in India where they had women political leaders, it showed that there was a direct increase in the levels of education and access to healthcare. Again, basic things that if you ask any typical Nigerian, they will say it's the reason why they are jackwine, right? So, but here's a solution for you. And I think the final thing that I would like to use is security. Women have been known to play a role of peace and diplomacy when it comes to issues of extreme violence and things like that. They don't, it's not typical for women to show force as a response to force. It's often that women use a peaceful route and use diplomacy. So, again, if you ask the typical Nigerian, what are some of the issues we have? Insecurity will be top on the agenda. So, these are all evidence levels. And like you said, it's not that men and women are better leaders than men. It's that women lead differently. I think it's really important. And so, what is happening in a country like Nigeria is that we're depriving ourselves of the potential to have women leadership. It's not something that whether you're male, female, child, we should all be pushing against it. And we should all be working against the barriers because there are genuine barriers. But I don't want us to dwell on the barriers. I think what you've said is really important. How do we set ourselves up for success over the next four years so that we don't come back and we're having the same conversation? I think it's really important. If you are listening to the conversation, you would know that, you know, Bossa is loaded. We're discussing the topic, can women change how politics is played? And Bossa is here with us. Now, remember, you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or WhatsApp to read 1-803-4663. You can also tweet at us at WeishuAfqa1 with the hashtag Weishu. Let me leave the floor to the ladies to ask the question because you know me, I always have plenty of questions. Okay. Yeah. So I know first and foremost, right? And it's a matter of equity and then human rights, which we all know are cornerstones of a democratic society. But at the same time, do we... So we've had... So when I saw this topic today, fortunately, I was sitting with a man and I brought this up with him. And you know the next week he said to me, please don't tell me that. I'm like, you see, this we have... I don't know if I should call honey, but this we have that minister that was a woman that stole money. This we have... Really? Is that your business right now? Is that what you're driving at? Why aren't you looking at it from a place of where we are that we've actually had women, let me look to Nigeria now. Outside of Nigeria, we've had women in parliament who have actually made, you know, very visible, difference. For example, look at Selim Johnson. Who are the people stealing all the money now? Come on. Because every time this conversation comes up, they bring up Desyani. Yes. Do you understand? It doesn't make any sense. They have a million and one Desyani in wedding and suits. So I think the point is, and I think that's a really good point, the point is, when people raise that argument, they forget that predominantly it is men that have been in positions of power. So it's really nice, you know, to raise that one, right? But as we just established, it's not so much that women are better leaders, but we are losing significantly from not having them. And unfortunately, for that argument as well, we've just not had enough women to establish that all women steal, right? So I empathize with people who want to throw in that argument, but it's just not founded enough. Okay, so do you think that if we had more government action, you know, towards the increase in the participation of women in politics, that would help? Absolutely. I think that's a very important point. So again, the evidence shows us that across the world where women's political representation has been increased, right? And this is not only, you know, other clients, it's Africa as well. It happened in Senegal recently, Sierra Leone, that it is as a result of a legislated gender quota. So to your point, the national gender policy exists, it makes provisions for affirmative action. But unfortunately, it hasn't translated because it is not legislated. So as you know, last year, we were pushing for five gender bills to be part of the Constitutional Amendment. But of course, the Ninth Assembly threw those out, right? Because that would have made provision for additional seats for women. And why is this important? Because it would surprise you to know that when people, you know, previously bills have been taken to the Assembly. And guess what the men ask, who seats do you want them to take? Okay. And that's why the proposal was now additional seats, where only women could run, could fill those seats. Yes. So it would be multiple political parties. It would be multiple political parties, but it would all be women running for those seats. But women would still be able to vie for all those other seats that men occupy. But that way, it was a way to at least get in. And he had a sunset clause of 16 years after which we would retire that legislation, because hopefully it is no longer needed. But to deny that there are barriers, and you know, there's no need to go over it. But violence is one of them. Funding is another. But the democratic process is getting better. The new electoral act does present promises. And so, you know, I really believe that if we start to do the things that we need to do against the next four years, we will see an increasing number. And if we're able to get that legislation, I think it would be accelerated. Absolutely. No, let me come to you. Sorry. Hi, Jose. Thank you so much. Patinello and Jola, I'm literally took the questions out of my mouth because those are the questions that were burning really at the top of my mind. But I would like to ask, how do women deal with certain setbacks, like say for example, in the media space or in gender-related electoral violence, you know, where they have to be confronted with real issues like this, having to stand in the face of opposition, having to receive death threats, and take speeches against them because of their gender. And the perception, the general perception that this is a traditional right for men. How do they deal with situations like that? That's that's my first question. And the second is, how can we begin to get more and more women to get on board with enlightenment and some kind of movement that empowers women to begin to bring their value to the table, like really deliberately and intentionally doing this? Perfect. I think those are two brilliant questions, by the way. And I think for the first one, now you reeled out the barriers. Honestly, those are the barriers. Okay. Now, you know, role modeling is very powerful. The more women see women in positions of leadership, the more they would believe that they can get there. So with all the barriers that you have just outlined, at least, thank God, a few women have made it past the finish line, right? Not enough, obviously, not the numbers that we're looking for. But the most important thing is, there is the notion that, look, if she could do it, then regardless of all those barriers, I also can overcome those barriers and actually do it. So I think that the first part is, and actually that is why we need to get more women in positions of power. Because those little girls coming up need to know that it's not reserved for men, because like you said, it almost seems like it's the right and the preserve of men, right? They call it a boys club to be in those positions. But imagine if really soon, in a few years, we have a female president, it automatically removes a barrier in a girl's life, in a girl's mind. And that's the power of role modeling. So when you say, how can we overcome? Role modeling is a huge piece. I personally think another big piece, and these are all areas that my organization, Welland is working on, is equipping young women. Because you see, some of us, I agree that, you know, we're not that old, they're still hoping for us. But you see, eh, we were socialized in that way. So by default, we are also corporates, you know, to this thing. Let's be honest, right? And I always ask the question that, look, this is a social construct that we constructed like a building. We all need to deconstruct it together, okay? And it starts with, I personally believe, really, how we're raising our young women, and how we're raising our young men. Because to your point earlier, male allyship is a very important part of this conversation. But imagine if we started to show the young boys that actually this is something that you can collaborate on versus having a whole generation who have grown up thinking, no, this is not, I cannot do this side by side, a female, right? So I think those two things are definitely things that we must, must start to work on, especially ahead of the next four years. I think the other question was about... No more? Yeah, the other question was about how we can get more women to bring them... Yes, yes. So, so, you know, one of the things people say a lot is women don't support women. That's why you people think has not increased. I agree with you. We need women to understand the value chain of politics. That's what I always say, you know, because not everybody will run. You are not, not everybody is the candidate, right? But there's a whole value chain. You can help to fundraise. You can give women a platform, right? You can give them visibility. You can consult for them. You can do strategy. You can volunteer for them. You can literally help, you know, whatever, even what you offer, if you're a makeup artist, every time you want to go out, I would do your makeup. You know, so women need to understand the value chain of politics. And then I cannot leave this conversation without talking about the political parties, because actually that is where a lot of this stuff really happens. And so women understanding that they can play an impactful and strategic role in the political parties is very important. And so let me highlight something that, because now I've remembered your question very well. You see, I always argue that the grassroots women are politically aware. It is actually the elite women that are not as politically aware. I would love to see a collaboration between the two where you bring your exposure, your expertise, your resources, and that woman who's at that local level who attends all the world meetings, who understands and knows and wants to be here and everybody, you know, you collaborate and actually build power. I always say that's the question that keeps me awake at night. Why? Because the evidence shows us now we're 49.2% of the population. Some argue that we are more as women. Last election, we were 47% of the voters. This election, we are about 49 or 48% of the voters. So that means that women have been voting men. Just imagine if we could convert numbers to power. So I also think to your point about how do we get women, they need to understand the value chain, but also there needs to be a collaboration between these grassroots women who understand politics in a very unique way and the elite women who can come with resources, intellect, expertise, and other forms of resources. So I like the idea of women supporting women and I want to just stay on it for a minute, right? There's a particular woman that is going around right now as trying to run for the position of deputy governor in Lagos State in terms of clout. Give it to her because with everything she's done in terms of her movie, she's gotten the the the clout and everything. But I saw women composing songs about her, what's he called, something you know, you know, gay husband and all of that. And it just got me wondering two things, right? Why do we always as women feel the need to pull another woman down? You know, regardless of even politics, that's number one. Number two, this particular woman, right? If it were a man, there would not be any conversation around her husband or her spouse or whatever. You know, all of a sudden, because she's a woman running, now you're not linking that, oh, they will be having an affair in the in the in the government house. Like this very, very shallow kind of thinking, right? It's more women that feel it, right? How do we get women to come out of those and see their potential? And do we just elect women because they came out? Or yes, should we just say, because because give it to this person in terms of clout and everything, she has it capacity to govern. I will both I will vote and I will say the judge organ because I know her personally and I know her capacity for leadership. So should we just say, okay, because women are coming out because that's the argument a lot of women make that you cannot just vote anybody and I must vote but we've seen very incompetent men. So now we did vote them. Thank you very much. So you see, I mean, with no apology whatsoever, and I'm happy for anybody to come for me. If there's a woman on the ballot, just vote woman first. Yes, you know why? Because as we as I already stated, the evidence shows that women lead differently. So let's just spice it up a little bit, right? Because right now it's really, really badly skewed 90 something percent versus 96 versus four is just not good. So just vote women. So that's one. The second thing that I want to say based on what you're saying is this. Look, to be honest, there's a lot of ignorance. And I say that because they are transferable skills. Political leadership is a job. It's a job description. You have to do X, Y and Z. What are the competencies you need to be a political leader? Let's be honest. You need to be able to manage resources. You need to be able to manage stakeholders. You know what I mean? You need to be able to negotiate, communicate. These are skills, right? That actually can be, you know, like can be acquired and can be transferred. So if a woman has succeeded in a particular sphere of influence, now I would say that it's part of her, you know, due diligence, like early days preparation to understand what she has and then understand if there are any gaps. But you see the thing, the challenge is women always are judged on performance while men are judged on potential. This is the problem, right? Because at the end of the day, if a man has 40 percent of the job description is going, if a woman has 95, she'll say, ah, I don't have 50. Let me not apply. So I really think, and that's why I say it's a lot of ignorance. We need to, first of all, the women themselves need to understand, I bring something to the table, even if you've managed the home. That is experience. That is job experience. Yes, I admit that you might need to close some gaps. But the point I'm also making is that, see, in Nigeria to run for office, all you need is SSE. If it's based on constitutional requirements, a lot of women, I mean, look, I looked at the Anambra elections. A lot of the governors were men, we had obviously, Uche Ikwenifei as a woman, but a lot of the governors were men. Some had SSE, some had BSE, but all their deputies, PhD, which is always women. They were mostly women, which is always the case that women feel they need to overcompensate. So like I said, I think we really need to deal with the ignorance of, and it's disheartening to hear that women are the ones bringing women down. Look, until we have solidarity amongst our gender, we will not change this thing. If you think about the not too young to run movement, where young people came together and say, reduce this age, we want to run at 25, remove it from 30, remove it from 40, we need a movement like that, and we need to come together to be able, we need solidarity. See, you are tall, you are short, you are, I don't like you. As a matter of fact, you don't even have to like the person. Just support the person because, like I said, on the other side of that is our entire well-being, improve livelihood, sustainable development, so be selfish and actually support women. Absolutely, absolutely. It's so interesting. And I love the fact that you said about the value chain right, because that value chain is very important. Like me, I was talking to Milola yesterday, I mean she wanted to run for office, I did my part and I handed over to someone that was, that could take on from where I could, I didn't have the capacity to, but I knew my role. Do you understand? So as a woman, know your role, know your position, know where you fit in. So you don't have to be the one, if you're not the funder, you're not, there are people that are anywhere you go, I follow you. Support the person, whatever skill, whatever capacity that you can bring to the table, bring it. And let me throw a challenge out to women. We have at the moment, I think, four or three commercial bank MDs. I think we need to start leveraging those positions. You know what I mean? Men do it. You see, and that's why I said that conversation about building power. We need to understand it. Bring what you have. Let's put it on the table. You know that family meeting. Okay, you want to run. What do we need? What are you going to bring? Oh, you put it there. And before you know it, we will get in there. But until we do that strategy, we have to be very strategic. We have to do bridal showers and... My darling sister. In seconds. Actually, that's a really good model. Where everybody breathes everything and then we just rally around the bride, right? And actually get her to the point where she says, Oh my God, the candidate is competent. They have character. And like I said, we're just over. But I'm behind you. Don't worry. Anytime you're ready. Let's make comments. What do you mean my dear beautiful sisters of what I say in hashtag ways? Can women change how politics is played? The answer is yes. Nobody should get me wrong on misunderstanding. I'm not against men because I'm a man. But if you look at it critically, men that have been in power all these years have failed us and we haven't moved forward. That is the plain truth and nothing more. Nigeria has failed to try. Nigeria has failed to try what will eventually work and that is to try to put a woman in power. Trust me. If a woman is in power, a great country and nation, Nigeria will change and move forward. When he's Daniel, he'll always rebel. And thank you Daniel. Okay, so this one says, I believe women have more sense of shame than men. This will make them deliver better in politics. Thank you for this comment. Absolutely. Is this shame that will not let us hear words? Don't disgrace your family. No, I have a comment. All right. I have this one. There's no name to it, but it says the lady is saying something great. But I don't agree with the area where she said just vote for her. I believe we need to check if the candidate has what it takes to run. Let me check him in. She has what to run. As far as she has a B.A.M.A. She has S.S.C.E. Let me tell you, we need more men to support this movement. I can tell you for free. If some of us become leaders, you will just be boiling. You will not suffer again. But thank you so much. But can I just say one point? The business men know this. So that's why they put women in leadership positions because their bottom line is the numbers are speaking. Thank you. We had an amazing conversation. Thank you for saying. Always a pleasure. Please, we'll keep on bringing you back. No, because me, I have a four-year agenda. From now, let's start positioning women for the next four years. Thank you Noma. Thank you, Chinelo and thank you, Diora. Now, before we go, I'm sure you follow us across all our social media handles that way so Africa can interact with us further. Drop a comment and more importantly, follow all our engagements on social media, like sharing, invite your families and friends to watch and follow the conversation. Now, if you missed our quote today here, it is again, there's need to be a fundamental shift in the way societies view women in government. One that does not see them as mere seat-fielders or stats on a chat. They must be viewed as a vital contribution or contributing factor to the betterment of the work. When you begin to see the potential of every woman, trust me, Nigeria will be different. Africa will be different. The world will be different. Thank you so much for watching. We'll see you guys tomorrow at 8pm as we bring another great conversation to your screen. Enjoy.