 So it is Thursday, January 12th, 2023, it is 733 p.m. Good evening, my name is Christian Klein and I am the chair of the Arlington zoning board of appeals. I'm calling this meeting of the board to order. And I ask all attendees who are not recognized to speak to please mute net mute their connection until such time as they're recognized by the chair. I would first like to confirm all members and anticipated officials are present members of the zoning board of appeals Roger Dupont here. Patrick handlin. Here. Sorry, I followed your directions to me. The problem. Daniel Rickidelli. Here. Venkat Holly. Here. And Elaine Hoffman. Here. Thank you all. Participating on behalf of the town. We have Rick Valerelli, our administrator. Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Good evening, Rick, and assisting as well as Vincent Lee. Good to have you with us. I don't think there's anyone else here on behalf of the town. To the consultants for the board, Paul Haverty from BBH law who is our mass housing partnership technical consultant he has a meeting that started another meeting that started at seven so he'll be joining us as soon as he's available this evening. But we have with us on Sean Reardon from Tetra Tech. Good to have him with us. Here. And I don't believe Mr. Bomer is joining us tonight. I think he's coming in two weeks. He's our architectural consultant. Appearing on behalf of the applicant, Paul Feldman. Here. Good to have you and Matthew Maggiore. Here. Good evening. Good evening. And Matt, if I could ask you to introduce the other members of your team. So, also from the majority companies is Paul Maggiore, our CEO of Jackie Maggiore, our director of real estate and marketing. We have Michael Novak, who's our civil engineer from Patriot Engineering. We have Rich Kirby from LEC environmental who is our environmental and wetland consultant. And I think that covers everybody on our end at the moment. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you. This open meeting of the Arlington zoning Board of Appeals is being conducted remotely consistent with an act relative to extending certain state of emergency accommodations signed into law on July 16, 2022. This act includes an extension until March 31 of 2023 of the remote meeting provisions of Governor Baker's March 12, 2020 executive order, suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law, which suspended the requirement to hold all meetings in a publicly accessible physical location, public bodies may continue holding meetings remotely without a form of the public body physically present at a meeting location, so long as they provide adequate alternative access to remote meetings. These meetings may meet remotely so long as reasonable public access is afforded so the public can follow along with the deliberations of the meeting. An opportunity for public participation will be provided during the public comment period during each public hearing. For this meeting the Arlington zoning Board of Appeals has convened a video conference via the zoom application with online and telephone access as listed on the agenda posted to the town's website, identifying how the public may join. This meeting is being recorded and it will be broadcast by ACMI. Please be aware that attendees are participating by a variety of means. Some attendees are participating by video conference. Others are participating by computer audio or by telephone. Finally, please be aware that other folks may be able to see you your screen name or another identifier. Please take care to not share personal information. Anything you broadcast may be captured by the recordings. We ask you to please maintain decor during the meeting including displaying an appropriate background. All supporting materials that have been provided members of this body are available on. Use me on this meeting's agenda or on the town's website unless otherwise noted, the public is encouraged to follow along using the posted agenda. And as chair reserve the right to take items out of order in the interest of promoting an order we're meeting. So I'd like to start with just quickly with a couple of administrative items. On behalf of the board so the first should be item two on our agenda this evening which is the approval of the minutes of our December 19 2022 meeting. These are minutes that were prepared by Mr. Valarelli and Mr. Lee and sent around to the board for comment and the revised version posted back to the board. Are there any further questions or comments in regards to the written minutes for December 19. Seeing none. May I have a motion to approve the minutes from December 19 2022. Thank you, Mr. Hanlon second. Thank you, Mr. DuPont. The vote of the board to approve the minutes. Mr. DuPont. Hi, Mr. Hanlon. Hi. Excuse me, Ms. Hoffman. What's your connection from Mr. Holly. Hi. Mr. Cadelli. Hi. Mr. Cadelli. I would like to share with those minutes are approved that brings us to item three on our agenda, which is the approval of the written minutes from December 20. Again, these are minutes that were prepared by Mr. Excuse me, Valarelli and Mr. Lee and brought forward to the board for comments and reissued. Are there any further questions on the minutes for December 20. Seeing none, may I have a motion to approve. Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. Mr. DuPont voted the board to approve the minutes from December 20, 2022. Mr. DuPont. Hi. Mr. Hanlon. Hi. Mr. Holly. Hi. Mr. Cadelli. Hi. And the chair votes those minutes are approved that brings us to item four on our agenda motion to approve the written decision for 201 old spring street. Now, Mr. Hanlon, there was a decision that was generally written by myself and Mr. Hanlon presented to the board for questions and comments and the final version posted again, this afternoon, are there any further questions or comments in regards to the decision for 201 Old Spring Street? No. Seeing none. May I have a motion to approve. Mr. Chairman, it's moved. Thank you, Mr. Hanlon. Second. Thank Mr. DuPont. Mr. DuPont. Hi. Mr. Hanlon. Hi. Mr. Holly. Hi. Mr. Rickidelli. Hi. The chair votes aye. That is approved. Thank you all very much for that. That brings us up to item number five, which is the main item for this evening. Mr. Havity will be joining us momentarily. So we are now turning to the comprehensive permit hearing for the residents of Millbrook to be located at 1021-1025 Massachusetts Avenue. This evening, the board is continuing the comprehensive permit hearing for the residents is at Millbrook, the redevelopment of an existing site in the neighborhood office, B1 district. The submitted documents are available from the board's website or as an attachment to the posted agenda. We open this evening with a few words about the comprehensive permit process as it differs significantly from other public project review procedures. The applicants will then be invited to introduce themselves. The applicant's wetland specialist will speak to comments received from the town of the board's consultants, followed by their stormwater consultant. The board will then present questions to the applicant regarding those issues before we open the hearing for public comment and questions on the same topics. The applicant's, the board has scheduled several hearings for this project. This schedule is available on the project website under the ZBA page on the town's website. The board will vote to continue this hearing at the end and adjourn for the evening. So the comprehensive permit loss of this also known as 40B was established by the state in 1969 to allow developers devoting a certain percentage of the units of the development to being affordable. The developer could receive an expedited review whereby the zoning board of appeals would hear the application and be authorized to grant waivers from any local statute which it finds can be granted without negatively impacting the health, safety and welfare of the local resident. The applicant cannot request waivers from any state laws and regulations which must remain in full effect. When the board is preparing its decision, it has three options. It may approve the project as submitted. It may approve the project with conditions and it may deny the project. At this time, the town does not meet any of the criteria which would allow a decision of the board to avoid appeal to the housing appeals committee. The state committee is empowered to increase the amount of affordable housing and they rarely sustain the denial of a comprehensive permit. The board is limited to conditions which could be applied to similar proposed developments pursued through regular zoning and the board cannot reduce the number of overall units unless it can demonstrate the necessity to protect the health safety and welfare of the residents and the board cannot increase the percentage of affordable units or the residents of the city. The board is limited to conditions which may be applied to the residents of the city. Only the subsidizing agency may do so. At this point I would like to again reintroduce attorney Paul Feldman from Davis mom to Augustine to introduce the members of the project team who will be presenting this evening. You can also let me know if there is somebody who would like to be screen sharing, I can set that up for them. My name is Paul Feldman. I'm an attorney in Boston. I represent the applicant. As the chair mentioned, this is a continuation of a public hearing that commenced, if I recall correctly, in October of 2022. At that first public hearing, the applicant presented a PowerPoint presentation where we presented the project plans that have been submitted to the zoning board and that are posted on the board's website for this project. One of the items addressed at the very initial public hearing was the zoning board's desire to retain review consultants to evaluate certain components of our submission. One review consultant was going to focus on traffic and civil engineering type matters and a second review consultant was retained to comment on the architectural design of the project. The zoning board successfully retained third party review consultants and last week we received some initial comments from the review consultants. We set up a series of meetings with the zoning board tonight and will take place over the next few weeks in which we go through subject matters that the board wants us to address and we answer any questions that may come up in the public hearing process. What we explained to the chair for tonight was that we wanted to spend the time tonight focused on initially a discussion of some review comments. I should have mentioned we also received review comments from Arlington town boards and departments in addition to the third party review comments. We mentioned to the chair that for tonight's meeting as you just heard we wanted to focus briefly on some comments we received from the conservation commission and we're going to start with those and with our consultant and then move into our civil engineer discussing the third party review comments that were received in connection from the third party reviewer Mr. Reardon. With regard to civil our focus tonight is going to be storm water management. We plan to present a traffic impact assessment and go through traffic comments as well as address comments of the third party review architectural designer at subsequent meetings after tonight. So with that as sort of making the table as to where we find ourselves let me turn to the wetlands issues on this site. As we noted at our original public hearing there is a portion of the property that is within the jurisdiction and resources of the Arlington conservation commission. The predominant wetland resource area is river front and it is the out of boundary the 100 to 200 foot area outside or from the river bank from the millbrook bank. We will be obligated to obtain a order of conditions under the wetlands the state wetlands protection act from the conservation commission. That's not something that can be accomplished through the comprehensive permit process. That will be a separate filing with the conservation commission. In connection with the comprehensive permit the zoning board is responsible for issuing a permit under the Arlington wetlands bylaw which is typically administered by the conservation commission but in the context of a 40 b comprehensive permit it is part of this expedited one stop shopping that 40 b provides so it would be a permit that is issued by the zoning board. One of the things the applicant has requested and we are working through with the town is an opportunity to commence the notice of intent filing for an order of conditions under the state wetlands protection act while the comprehensive permit process is going on so that the conservation commission can be engaged in reviewing the drawings under the wetlands protection act and there can be coordination between the zoning board and the conservation commission in connection with wetland issues that are within the jurisdiction of the conservation commission. One of the things we are committed to do if we can get a notice of intent filing to proceed is we will work with the conservation commission to extend any time periods for them for the conservation commission to render a decision under the wetlands protection act until after the proceedings in front of the zoning board are fully completed so that the final version of plans that wetlands is the conservation commission is reviewing will conform to what it is that the ZBA has reviewed. So with that sort of procedural point aside I want to turn it over to Rich Kirby who is a wetland scientist with LEC environmental and Rich will speak generally to the approach in addressing the wetland resource area known as riverfront and responding to some of the comments that the conservation commission submitted in a wetter which we received. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Kirby. All right thank you Paul. I'm Rich Kirby from LEC environmental consultants and we've been working with the Magiore's on this project since it's an inception last year and as part or in support of the comprehensive permit application we prepared the bylaw notice of intent application which has been reviewed by the Arlington conservation commission and of course the peer reviewer. We did have a chance to take a look at those comments and we'll be submitting a revised bylaw notice of intent application that addresses those comments but I just wanted to go through some of them. But before I do that as the from a wetlands protection act in Arlington wetlands bylaw perspective the primary resource area on the property is the riverfront and most of the property or sorry the northern roughly half of the property is within the outer 200 foot riverfront area so it's within the riverfront area that extends from 100 feet from Milbrook to 200 feet from Milbrook. There's a small section along the northern property boundary that's within the 100 foot riverfront area but the work proposed there is mostly is really all mitigation a portion of the walking trail that Kyle's landscape architecture had designed as part of the mitigation area is within that first hundred feet we'll be revising the plan to pull that out so the only work that will be within the first hundred feet will be the will be the mitigation which is I'll get to in a minute but with regard to riverfront area really it is a redevelopment of the degraded riverfront area on the site and of course in order to fit the project onto the riverfront area and the site a portion of the riverfront area that is naturally vegetated will be altered that is primarily for the installation of the stormwater management basin behind or north of the proposed structure and a retaining wall we're also proposing to remove many of the invasive exotic trees and understory plantings along with the debris and trash and film material that has accumulated within the wooden portion of the property over the years and started new with a native landscape plan along with some site grading to create some some visual interest and some stormwater attenuation and that's all outlined in the in the application that we that we prepared the the footprint of the of course we're going to we're going to create sort of a forested woodland within the northern portion of the property that's currently forested now albeit with the invasive exotic plants and the footprint of the stormwater management basin will have a we're proposing a meadow above that that will function as a pollinator meadow and that'll be mowed once annually in the fall so we'll have some grasses and things wildflowers etc growing in there to provide a little bit of habitat diversity would it be easier with with the board prefer that I share some plans to sort of illustrate what I'm talking about let me go ahead and I have the plans as well ready to share if you can authorize me to share whatever works for for everybody's fine with me I was trying to find your name in the list there you are all right let me pull up my hands okay let's let's share the screen here so I was going through the plans before the before the project or rather before this hearing so this plan here shows the existing conditions of course the two commercial structures with the parking the paved parking areas in the back and this is the portion I was talking about which is currently wooded you have the Millbrook condominiums sorry about that the Millbrook condominiums parking lot is back here and that's what separates this site from Millbrook which is delineated with these high water mark flags here one through 11 so these high water mark flags place the boundary which is this dotted line here and the 200 foot riverfront area boundary so you can see most of the riverfront area on the site is comprised of this wooded area which again we included some photographs there's lots of trash and debris the vast majority of these trees are invasive norway maple and what we're proposing of course is to remove many of those trees that are within the riverfront and do a little bit of regrading and create sort of an urban woodland environment comprised of many native plants we have a couple of walkways proposed to provide a sort of a place for the residents to walk perhaps a place to sit and etc this is the this blues rectangle is the stormwater infiltration system and then of course we have this retaining wall here that I'm sure the board is familiar with and this area up gradient will be the meadow environment we're going to see this with some meadow grasses there'll be signage and instruction in the O&M plan to mow this once annually in the fall outside the growing season that'll help keep out the invasive plants and also promote seed dispersal and establishment and maintenance of that meadow environment the I'm going to share well so that well that basically covers the proposed work within the riverfront area and we outline the regulatory compliance for the wetlands protection act which is effectively the same as the bylaw there's really no additional bylaw requirements for work in the riverfront area I will mention however that the bylaw does include land within 100 feet is considered an upland resource area an adjacent upland resource area and you can see from this plan here this is the 100 foot riverfront area and you can see how it extends along the you know northern portions of the northern property boundary and we are doing work in that zone but that work is really limited to the mitigation that we're proposing the removal of the invasive plants the removal of the debris and fill reestablishing a native soil profile replanting with with native plants so all of that work is within the all of that work within the upland resource area the adjacent upland resource area or the aura as it's referred to is part of the mitigation so none of the project work is in that zone that's all within the outer portion as we described so the we did receive some comments and like I indicated earlier we're going to be submitting a revised bylaw notice of intent which addresses many of those comments and we'll find a way to indicate the changes so you don't have to read through the entire document again although you'd be welcome to there are a couple of discrepancies in the number of trees that are going to be removed within the upland resource area within the riverfront for the project and then of course we have additional tree removal within the mitigation area again because they're the vast majority of them are that invasive Norway and if we're trying to establish a native plant community which is going to thrive and provide much improved habitat in the long run then we feel that though that's that's the way to go for this area here I went over the work in the hundred foot resource area will quantify that and clarify that in the in the notice of intent application there was a question about the quantity and size of the trees proposed and Kylesic of Kylesic landscape architecture put together a planting plan and I believe this was included in the zone in the comprehensive permit application we did not include it as an appendix to our bylaw notice of intent nor did we include the site plans only because we thought it was going to be being included under separate cover with the permit application but this is the this is the planting table that's included on sheet five of Kylesic's plan set and it does overview the quantity of the deciduous trees that are going to be proposed as well as as well as the sides some of the sizes are in height for example the Amalanche year is proposed at a 12 foot height the paper birch is proposed at a 12 foot height other plants are are sized in accordance with caliber so for example the swamp white oak is a two inch caliber et cetera so if if the commission would like or the board would like us to sort of re quantify these in terms of height I think we could work with Kyle to estimate that and that might give a apples to apples comparison of what's being removed versus what's being proposed but the point here and the idea behind Kylesic's plan is to not just establish and plant sapling trees that are all the same size and same age but to have a diversity of sizes and ages so that way is the woodland matures you'll have younger trees and older trees that mimic a more natural woodland environment instead of a more natural woodland that's a little bit more what's the word artificial perhaps we're also proposing a number of seedlings and again to that end of having a forest of different ages we have some seedlings proposed many shrubs many native shrubs and then we also have some seed mixtures and ferns that we're going to be proposing as well so we can we can again include this table and the revised by law notice of intent to show how those proposed trees sapling shrubs and ground cover plants are quantified there was also a recommendation to incorporate an invasive species management plant while a big effort will be made up front to remove many of the invasive plants the Norway maple the buckthorn etc that's present and will be removing a lot of the debris and the topsoil that contains the root stock and the seed bank of those invasive plants and putting back a natural soil profile with new topsoil there's always the chance and likelihood that you're going to have invasive plants either colonizing or leftover seed and or root stock that will germinate and propagate within the restoration area so we will be putting together an invasive species management plan for incorporation into the application we can include it in the operation and maintenance plan for the site and that would be something I presume that we would be implemented by the by the condo association in perpetuity as has been requested by the Arlington Conservation Commission for oversight and management of this restoration area so we can include it in the operation and maintenance plan for perpetuity the last item had to do with the the Millbrook condo association to the north and their property to the north if we recall here we zoom to a plan that shows it there's not a whole lot of detail on this plan but there is a zone of natural vegetation within adjacent to the brook that separates the brook from the parking area and paved access drives that occur between our site or the subject property and the Millbrook so one of our thoughts in terms of a mitigation strategy would be to perhaps manage invasive species management to re-vegetate the land between the brook and the pavement edge on the condo property so we've been the major areas have been working with the Millbrook condominium association to work together to where we can present our plan of re-vegetation and invasive species management so we've been working with the Millbrook condominium association to provide a great improvement for the riverfront area because we would be improving the land immediately adjacent to the brook all land within 200 feet of the brook is presumed to be significant to the protection of the brook but obviously the closer you are so I think that covers certainly the points that I reviewed with the town conservation commission I saw that the conservation vice chair is on tonight I don't know if the conservation commission members wanted to talk about anything but I think that's where we're at can I add one piece to that update about Millbrook thank you good evening we have approval the board for the Millbrook condominium association voted to approve our conceptual planting program along Millbrook pending their review and approval of an axis agreement so we're in the process of preparing that agreement we can approve obviously what we're going to do there how we're going to get access provide insurance and indemnification so it's moving in a positive direction on that front that's great news that's the bulk of my presentation Mr. Chairman I don't know if you wanted to have any questions or if you wanted to open up to the board if you wanted to be on the line perhaps he is something to add I turn it back to you I would know that Susan Chatnick the chair of the conservation commission has joined us as well great so Ms. Chatnick if I could address the comments we've received let us know a little bit about what the conservation commission's concerns are we're very much rich for your thorough understanding of the changes that you're proposing and we're looking forward to seeing those changes in updated package just a few comments you did address we do have an aura the aura is the upland resource the hundred feet from Millbrook there is only a small portion of the site that is in the aura though the main part of the aura is actually in the condo association's purview and so we had strongly recommended that you work with the condo association so we're very pleased to hear that that is happening and it sounds like it could actually put in as a special condition because you've gotten far enough in discussions with the condo association I think that based on what you said I'll speak as the chair but we'd have to talk about it in the commission we would recommend to the ZBA that that would be a special condition because that would help mitigate the impacts that are happening in riverfront and aura by improving the habitat closest to Millbrook which is the most important the 200 feet is important but closest to the resource area actually is the most important so we're very encouraged to hear that you've had these positive talks with the condo association I will say I'm also encouraged to hear that the work in the aura now is just mitigation and we were looking for that and that you are going to clarify the number of trees there was a discrepancy with how many trees in what area so we look forward to seeing that and understanding that fully which trees are being removed and what trees are being proposed so I won't comment further on that without seeing it we did have a comment on stormwater but I'll wait for that until somebody is discussing stormwater the actual management unit we do find it acceptable to put a meadow above the stormwater unit it's important to have different and diverse habitats for our wetland resource areas so having a pollinator habitat associated with the urban forest could be really positive there's been a lot of research lately on the importance of even small isolated urban forests there was actually a recent article I cut it out in the Boston Globe in December on tiny urban wetlands and biodiversity so we are pleased that this very degraded non-native forested area that's really actually has a lot of debris and invasives and vines in it as a habitat or as a resource it doesn't have the resource values we would like to see near Millbrook we're very encouraged that that can be improved one thing we did request and this is probably more rich to the majorities than to you is that this urban forest potentially have some impact on the wildlife so we see it as an amenity to people who might be living in this complex and of course any fences or anything we would have to condition to put some room for wildlife so of course it would be a habitat and wildlife we also would like to see it as a place where people can live in this area and sit quietly and contemplate in this new area that's being created I would like to ask Chuck he's my vice chair and I always he's my go-to for riverfront area standards under the wetland protection act to make sure that we have the resources that we need thank you I think Susan summed it up quite nicely I want to say Rick I appreciate your presentation it seems like you took our comments to heart and have really worked hard you and the developers have essentially put together a little bit about the fact that you got the apartments to start to work with you on that area close to the riverfront I think that's going to make a big difference in the future and maybe we can get some more areas so I won't talk too long I think Susan covered it all I look forward to hearing you at our conservation meeting thank you we'll come back to that okay great thank you very much we have a note from that said the people may be stuck in the waiting room and that may already have been fixed but if not it would be a good time as we switch to a different speaker to bring people in we'll see again there's nobody in the waiting room at this time thank you Paul do we want to address the public access yeah I was going to mention that of all the comments that Ms. Chapnick made we were we have discussed whether or not this urban park this tiny urban park would be and we think that is a request that is going to be very difficult for us to meet there are liability issues I don't have to tell generally people here but you know this is private property it's going to be owned by a condominium association they're going to want to regulate the people that access the private property there are liability issues and they're just general privacy issues that are going to be important so before we create an expectation that that is going to be an accomplishable outcome from that particular request we just want the conservation commission to appreciate that's going to be very challenging for us to do thank you Mr. Kirby did you have anything further I don't I think I covered all the comments we've received thus far but I'm certainly available to answer any questions or discuss things further thank you Mr. Chairman Mr. Moore if I could are you speaking to address as representative of the tree committee then yes Mr. Moore yes I am thank you Steve Moore I want to applaud the planning and work that's gone into this thus far I mean there's significant thought being given to trees and landscape planning and sensitivity to various issues that the conservation committee has brought up I am going to take a little bit of a different tact in this chapter though I I we hear quite regularly that Norway maples are invasive and unwanted and it is true that they're not native plants however they provide significant tree cover to the back end of this property I believe you said it was the north side I think it is and yes it's invasive no it is not a bad plant to have it's not preferable but it provides food shade and tree cover and although it's full of as you say debris and such it provides what habitat there is in the area currently I do understand that the plans will improve on that area however a very significant number of trees in being taken down as this project and you stated and I'm not sure that the plans that we seem to date sufficiently mitigate I know that they provide significant mitigation I'm not sure it's enough just because this is one of the few small hidden areas in Arlington that have a natural urban forest on it already now it's not the best forest it's not definitely not the best shade I agree but it is what we have and we need to very carefully look at the mitigation plan to replace what is definitely going to be taken so I just wanted to make that comment thank you thank you Mr. Moore if I could ask Sean Reardon who's the the board's engineering consultant if there are any review comments he would like to address at this time sure again my name is Sean Reardon with Tetra Tech we're the consultant for the ZBA on the wetlands issues as well as traffic civil and in some of the other related matters to reiterate everybody's point I think great plan by Rich Kirby and I think it's well thought in particular the prospect of improving the area along Mill Brook is super valuable in large part because it also right now there's very little stormwater management on the adjacent parking lot so that would do a lot to mitigate not only this project but any impacts that are currently occurring on the adjacent parking lot so you know that's something that I hope we don't ever lose focus on because that's going to return a great deal of value one quick comment so you know a lot of the stormwater management is intertwined with these filings so you know rather than maybe revise the document right now Rich maybe right through the comments and on the stormwater first and then when we've got sort of good control over all those issues then we can sort of wrap them up into one revise filing you know I know I know there aren't that many issues from a from a sort of a wetland standpoint but the stormwater is kind of intertwined and that may take us some time to work through some of those details just is sort of evidence of the value of that open area I mean I visited once and I saw two turkeys I saw a red tailhawk I was pretty shocked with the turkeys that freaked me out a little bit but yeah I was pretty amazed at it so it's a pretty cool space and it looks like it's going to stay that way which is good one of the things that I think we also are probably going to need to consider going forward is I know that there's a lot of emphasis on the wetlands but I think in talking with the architectural consultant there might be an opportunity to balance a little bit more of the sort of the open space needs of the residents so if there's room for a play set or something like that what I would just say is there might be a desire on his side to sort of balance some of these positive benefits and then just you know finally the last thing is I mean this is going to be a tough opportunity to construct not a whole lot open area not a whole lot opportunity to mitigate runoff during construction so your erosion control during construction is going to be hugely important and right now it's it's a little week right now so I think what I'd really like to see is a little bit more emphasis put on sort of explaining how we're going to manage construction and how specifically runoff from the site is going to be a little bit more focus on site and in the space that you have with with what little space you have that's available so let's not lose sight of the fact that we've we've got to build a big project and one of the biggest parts of the of the Wetlands Protection Act and the local storm orders bylaw is to make sure you're protecting the resource areas during construction I think there's got to be a little bit more thought put into that plan but aside from that I think it's a little bit more focus on the different areas of the resource areas in this case it's pretty explicit you know it's well defined we don't have any any issues with their delineation or their representation of the different resource areas so we're really just about you know how do we deal with these final issues thank you are there before we switch over and talk a little bit more are there any specific questions from the members of the zoning board at this time which they would like to address Mr. Chairman Mr. Hanlon one of the things that comes up in the comments at various points is a conviction on part of both of our at least as I read it a conviction on the part of both of our consultants that there may in order to because the site is as tight as it is for as far as construction activities are concerned that construction activities will both require pretty much removal of all the trees in the in the northern part of the site and and and it may include construction equipment and so forth being stored there or used there as part of the overall project and there's been a lot of emphasis that the northern part the part that's in the one the aura is not going to have any improvements on it that that might be deleterious but I'm wondering whether that's equally true of what will happen during during construction and whether will be necessary essentially both to remove trees but also the various impacts that construction activities themselves have on that portion of the site I wonder if that can be addressed I'm just measure Matt measure we'll address that we don't have any intentions of removing any trees as it relates to construction or staging of equipment nor do we intend to be within the first hundred feet other than to complete mitigation thank you anything further yeah I would just let me just make one point I think we will we will plan to address in a more complete way the construction phasing plan and how construction will be accomplished we know that was part of Tetra Tech's review comments it was one of the subject matters that Tetra Tech wants some more meat on the bone we're going to provide that it's that's not something we're prepared to do tonight because we're working on the construction plan the phasing plan exactly how it gets accomplished but although you know we talk about the site is being tight and we appreciate that you know the the ability to construct these these types of projects in the subject property is something that we're quite confident we're going to be able to put together a construction plan that's going to make sense to everyone and and to Tetra Tech well we do have a cleaned up version of our draft of which we could certainly pop up to the end of Mike's presentation if we have time yeah so okay that's fine if we were ready to sort of begin to describe an outline of construction phasing and process there there is thought has already been given to how you would get this project built and everybody's familiar with you know and whenever you walk around the downtown of a city and we marvel at how they build these buildings why don't we hold off talking about the construction phasing until we have the actual plans for us to review which I think will be a topic for a future meeting are there any further questions or comments from members of board of appeals at this time in regards to Mr. Chair could I ask one quick question yes so one of the other things to keep in mind is that when you change the grade around existing trees it's extremely detrimental effect on them and it looks like there's quite a bit of grading proposed within that tree area so I was just wondering if Rich could sort of comment on what his thoughts are regarding the proposed regrading and the survivability of those trees sure if I could share my screen again I don't have permission yeah I thank you I just want to get back here to the to Kyle's could I piggyback on that question I think it'll be helpful to it's sort of the same thing we talked a lot about the Norway maples but I'm wondering in that area of trees that may or may not be protected are there other species that are not invasive maybe we could look at that in the plan thank you sure so as part of this effort we did not go in and identify every single tree the vast majority are Norway maple there are several other trees I know there's a large I think it might be a linden tree English linden tree or something like that toward the back of the parking lot of the structure to the to the east but this this is the proposed planting plan you can see this is where the stormwater management system and pollinator meadow are being proposed this is the proposed stone pathway just to provide residents access to it and all of these circles that you see are trees and shrubs that are being proposed there are very few if any trees that will remain between the grading and just the intent to rid the site of the Norway maple to start anew with a more diverse plant community which I think will pay off in the long run I think in 15-20 years this site will have a very diverse plant community that's providing a better habitat than it currently does and it will be continuing to sequest more and more carbon as it as it gets older the other thing is you know when you go out there there's a lot of canopy there is and there's a lot of ground cover with the vines but there's not a whole lot of understory you know the the shrub layer in this area dense it's very sparse and I think that's in part due to the significant shading that the Norway maple are providing so opening this up a little bit and having the canopy species the replacement trees installed is going to allow much more sunlight penetration which is going to foster that understory plant community and as the forest that we're proposing grows all of those shrubs that are beneath it and the understory plantings will be well established and therefore will thrive within that native canopy compared to the Norway maple canopy that's there presently so I hope that answers your question but let me know if you want to talk through anything further all right thank you Mr. Chairman Mr. DuPont so with regard to the planting area and I know that Mr. Kirby had commented and said that they were going to implement the oversight and management by the condo association in perpetuity so I assume that that involves the entire rear area where there's meadow as well as trees then when Mr. Matt Maggiore commented about the conversations we had with the Milbrook condo association with regard to doing the work on the other side of the parking lot I was wondering what the plan or the thinking was with regard to that restoration on that side whether that would be in perpetuity and who would be responsible for that that's a that's a great question and I'm not sure we've taken the thought that far we can certainly think about that and talk with the Milbrook condo association to see if perhaps some sort of easement or other mechanism could be provided where we could have annual access for maintenance and management of that area along the brook to be determined but great question and something we'll have to look into but at least the thinking is that there would be the perpetual oversight and management of that by someone yes that's that's the intent that's correct with between the invasive species management and also the management and maintenance of the plantings as they're installed the annual mowing in the fall of this meadow those are things that in order for this area to thrive the conservation and value that is intended I think we'll need that annual maintenance and presumably reporting to the conservation commission and again not to not to belabor the point but that would include the other side of the parking lot we don't know that for sure yet it sounds like Matt Maggiore has a good start in communicating with the Milbrook condos in terms of getting access for the maintenance and management I don't know if your conversations with that detail in terms of ongoing maintenance and management that could be an annual access or if that's yet to be that level of detail is yet to be discussed I have to go back through my correspondence with them to see what we offered and something reminds me that it was possibly two years of the first two years of maintenance would be on us and it would pass the torch to the association but I will certainly make the point to follow up on that and respond back to the board Thank you Ms. Chapnick has her hand up on behalf of the conservation commission Thank you very much chair Klein I just wanted to make one point about the Norway maples I do agree that they serve some habitat value I mean just because something is invasive doesn't mean it doesn't serve a habitat value However, based on my walkthrough of the site a lot of the Norway maples are around the same size or their saplings and if they're around the same size they're around the same age and they're going to fail at the same time Norway maples are notorious for not standing up well to hurricanes and severe weather we all know with climate change we're getting more of and so it's kind of problematic in the town of Arlington that we have these little Norway maples pockets of forests we have one on summer street that are going to all fail at the same time and that's going to be within the next 20 to 30 years so if we want to take this opportunity to create something that is going to have value to the habitat to the wetlands and also be resilient to climate change it's not keeping this kind of degraded Norway made before so I just wanted to throw that out there for people who may not understand that yes it is serving some habitat value now but it's not a climate resilient strategy thank you appreciate that any other questions from the board Mr Chair just to maybe keep on the same note about the tree cover and the back of the site I think it was mentioned earlier when we were speaking that I think there's a landscape plan the L1 plan that seems to indicate that some of those trees are maintained that planting plan that we were just looking at with Mr Kirby shows all new plantings in there so I think it's going to be interesting to know in this next round of conversation specifically if any of them are saved and I think just in general my concern is if we remove all of those trees which certainly we understand our invasive some of them are 30 inch caliper trees we'll hit the plan now and the proposed plans are for this seems like there's a loss of high canopy tree tree cover and I know we are looking 20 years down the road but for day one I'm kind of concerned that you do lose a little bit of resilience and richness of the urban environment and all that stuff thank you for that thank you very much I was going to go back to Mr Feldman to introduce the stormwater consultant for the project and to have them present their stormwater comments thank you Mr Chair Mike Novak is our civil engineer Mike has designed civil engineering components of the site stormwater management being a key civil design element and what Mike Mike has already presented in a generic way the stormwater management approach but I'll let him speak to it again in the context of the comments he heard from Mr Reardon we can engage in advancing the stormwater management thank you Mr Feldman Mr Novak Mr Chair would I be able to share my screen to have a visual aid and while you do that for the record Mike Novak from Patriot Engineering in the interest of time I'll get everybody up to speed in regards to the plans that Mr Reardon has seen for the stormwater management approach that we took to start with and then I'll get into some some of the high level responses or plans that we're going to change in terms of addressing his comments so that's what I'll aim to do and you should be all set thank you give me one second can everyone see the screen yes and is that okay for everyone I can get everyone again on the same page as Rich mentioned here's the existing site as it stands now the two dwellings up at the front with associated parking and the wetland area river front and back or to the rear some of the things I want to point out is that from this this is a surveyed existing conditions plan so this is this is a current up to date plan I use this to establish the existing stormwater mitigation design modeling the existing buildings existing parking and then of course using the topography obtained from the survey in a general sense this there's a there's a small high point at the at the front of of the dwellings and then the majority of the site then runs back at varying slopes essentially back to front and then of course ending up across the Melbrook parking area and into the river that's the general sense as we talked about the tree the tree canopy in the in the rear here and of course it's opened through these parking areas anyone who hasn't been at the site so we use I used this to model the existing conditions to establish the runoff the stormwater runoff that happens today based on the the stormwater requirements mainly through this the Arlington Conservation Commission and their associated rainstorm events and then as you've seen this is the proposed plan so of course this is overlaid under the existing plan again orientation wise to existing dwellings here parking you can see that the building extends past that so the building is the yellow the yellow rectangle on the plan and of course you can see that the majority of the site now so the first the first approach for the stormwater mitigation was to capture all of the roof area so there'd be no runoff from that area and that is the that is channeled to this underground infiltration system right now this is comprised of ADS storage chambers those are a very common and typical thing that I've used in and around this area this has designed to capture this this entire area and store and infiltrate the amount of water needed to have this proposed site not increase any runoff free in the post conditions excuse me compared to as I spoke of the addition the existing conditions numbers that were established with taking the majority of the roof or all of the roof building you can see that the that's the majority of the site so the remainder of the site was graded to runoff in a similar pattern as it as it does now and with the balancing of excuse me sorry about that and with the balancing of materials changing this path from between this concrete to stone dust and modeling the meadows the planted areas we were able to create a balance where the moving this building area allowed for the and then the rest of it running off allowed for the the proposed conditions to meet the existing conditions so that's that's where the plans were in in what that were submitted under the compartment and then just read based as comments on one of the main comments that he he gave was basically the start of a storm water design basis which was was to ask that and I'll go back to the existing conditions bear with me that's there was some lack of detail within and based on the site his site visit he he observed that there were some depressions that were potentially holding water and he asked the existing model reflect what's out there so we updated the surface that we had to to show one foot contours which which will when you see these plants next will show these depressions and those depressions have been modeled so in the in the interim from receiving the comments to tonight you don't have these but I'll just express this that I've I've updated the the modeling to make sure that we've established new numbers for runoff in the existing and then compare the proposed runoff numbers again and to make sure that we're still meeting or reducing the existing conditions runoff and volume and we also he had also asked to take a look at some of the sidelines in terms of you can see that the topo stops right at the property line so we've we've gotten more information to show where if any water comes or goes across these sidelines where that is happening added to the model and then again compare it to the you'll see the same underneath here and add it to this plan to make sure that we're mimicking the existing conditions as best we can we will be adjusting some of the grading in the rear here to make sure that the high points of where certain areas of water go one way or the other that that will match so I'm confident to be able to say that when you when we when we resubmit everything the storm water wise will be able to address that particular comment which I'll say in my interpretation of his comments there's a lot of other comments that are associated with that so from being able to get to that point I feel as though I'll be able to address the majority of the remaining storm water comments as well and I know we're not going to talk about constructability but I will say so much but I will say that one of the comments that I will certainly provide data for is when this infiltration system is installed criteria for what won't be needed to be done for it during construction to allow material to be stored or equipment to go over it whether it on a can or can't will expressly put that in into plans and into documentation so it's clear as to the area that the majority will have in terms of using it for constructability and that I think we've already talked about we're working on that we'll we'll get there and we'll have a robust plan to show you and and what I heard tonight from Mr. Ritten as well and something will address is interim erosion control during construction for both ground cover and other mitigation measures as you saw through these plans we pretty much jump from existing to proposed so his comments is not wasted and it's very much heard that we need an interim plan to make sure that this site say Sable and is adequately controlled erosion and runoff without getting into the my new details of his comments I think that's probably enough for everyone to be on the same page happy to answer any questions or if there's anything that I went too fast over happy to go through it some more so with that Mr. Chair I'll turn it over to you and I'll pull the plans up if we need to or do you want me to leave them up no that's fine as it is thank you Mr. Novak I appreciate that go back to Mr. Reardon ask him if he has additional comments no I think he can capture all the things I was thinking about you just don't want to get into it it's pretty important comments so there's going to be some dialogue about the sufficiency of the information that gets sent back if you can envision there's two holes for lack of a better word in the back of the site and they essentially act like detention ponds so you know how they work where they discharge how they're shaped how deep they are is going to be pretty important into determining how much under pre-development conditions how the site flows over the parking lot of the condominium name next door it's going to be really important to sort of get a handle on what currently happens and what's proposed to happen under future conditions so that we can make sure that everybody's on the same page as to what's going to be happening as far as changes but yet I think we're on our way I think we understand or the applicant understands what we're looking for and we're hoping to get it back to you. Thank you Mr. Rudin. You had a stormwater question as well. Thank you Chairman Klein. First I had a question the application shows that the NOAA Atlas 14 dataset was used for the stormwater NOAA Atlas 14 data the conservation commission has been requesting this has been our current practice and we are currently updating our regs but this is consistent with what we've been asking over the last year or two for permits we've been asking applicants to use the NOAA 14 plus datasets for precipitation that is 0.9 times the upper confidence level of the range is that something that you think is you could use for calculation or have you Mr. Novak do you know which model set you're using? Yes Mr. Chair thank you I believe that's where we're at but I will make sure that we are at those particular sets of rain events that should not be a problem because I know when we went through with the informal conservations we've looked at a couple of different datasets and that was certainly one of them I believe that's where we stayed but I will make sure on the next filing that that is clear and concise. Thank you and then if I may I have just one more comment considering that the site is tight as people have said and erosion control is very important as Mr. Reardon has maintained I would recommend I know we're early for thinking of conditions but I would recommend an independent environmental monitor during construction it's very important that we don't have sedimentation and surface water flow into our resource areas of the site especially in riverfront so that's a recommendation from the conservation commission thank you. Thank you Mr. Javik I would also note that the using the NOAA 14 plus data sets that is also a practice that the zoning board has included in both of the 40 B applications that came before the board in the last two years so we would really be looking for that set of data for this project as well. Mr. Chair if I could just add one quick thing. Yes sir. I understand the desire to use all the NOAA data and all the more sort of the higher storm events that we're looking for. I would also like to add that the NOAA standards specifically require the old numbers so what I'd ask is Michael if you could just document those two then we can just check the box saying that we meet those standards. Mr. Chair if my yes I can I'll give you both so we can all check our own boxes. Sure. Thank you. I'm not sure I see it in the in the comment letter but maybe I'm missing it as a scroll through right now but there was a comment that the walking path that we're proposing portion of that would fall within the first 100 feet of the riverfront area small portion of it so we'd be willing to reconfigure that walkway. There was a recommendation from the architectural review team that we want to become something else possibly impervious and so we're trying to figure out what we're doing there but we're certainly happy either way to remove it you know to relocate it reconfigure that first time. Thank you. In the comment letter that we received from the engineer had a stormwater section most of the comments that we received from the engineer that we're looking at. I'm going to deal specifically with calculations and they're just looking for some numerical data on things and then he was looking for some additional information about how the collection system works where the parts of the infrastructure for the collection system and then he had a question about if there was any additional data that could be provided indicating subsurface conditions in the area proposed to be utilized for stormwater infiltration. Do you know that information? I believe looking back at that observation test may not necessarily be related to this project but I wasn't sure so just ask Mr. Novak if he knows. Yeah I can't say that we conducted soil testing and it's done through a licensed soil evaluator we did by memory I can look at the plans but I think we did three possibly four holes they were pretty consistent in terms of soil type and depth I'll make sure that they are front and center on any new plans that come through and make sure that everybody is comfortable with them and if we need more information we'll provide it. Thank you very much. That was the central portion of those comments. With that are there questions or comments from the Board of Appeals in regards to the stormwater system? There are none. I just have a couple of quick questions. We'll sort of tie these two topics together. So one is this is a condominium development so the intention is that once the project is built and the project is sold the developers are no longer a part of the process anymore and it turns over to the home ownership association I was curious how the provisions of the Board's whatever the decision the Board reaches if the Board said we're to go forward with this plan and say we want to have this wildflower meadow and then five years down the road we're going to go forward with this plan. We're going to go forward with this plan. Residents say no we really want to just put in regular grass and a play set. How is that maintained where there's no ownership continuation and I don't know if that that might be a question actually for Mr. Haverty or Mr. Feldman I'm not quite sure. I can answer that rather easily. I don't know. I don't know. In addition we would still have a seat on the board as a commercial unit owner. So we still will be involved. You know after we convey the 50 condominium units residential units further any project like this we we write in any special permits any orders of conditions anything that's required. And I have to be adhered to in perpetuity. Okay. If I can piggyback on that please Mr. So the board can include as part of its decision. A condition that these issues be addressed in the condominium documents. And you can require that the board be provided copies of those documents before certificates of occupancy have been issued before your review for consistency with the decision. Okay. That was a clarification that I was going to make Mr. Chair that Matt's reference to bylaws is really technically a reference to the master deed of the condominium. And when we prepare these condominium documents that we do quite regularly. The master deed is going to be subject to and the ownership of all of these units are going to be subject to the permits and approvals that are obtained. In order for the project to be built. So if there are ongoing obligations. We, we call them out in the master deed. So there's no confusion as to the obligation of the trustees of the condominium association. To undertake and perform the requirements the operation and maintenance requirements you were addressing. Thank you. As well as any changes to the plants. Yeah. They'd have to come back. If the condominium association, for example, wanted to change the meadow to a, to a grass, they just couldn't do that unilaterally. They're doing work within the jurisdiction of the concom. They'd have to file a notice of intent under the Wetlands Protection Act and they would have to file an amendment to that. So that they don't have that unilateral authority to change what you guys have approved. Okay. And then for the stormwater infiltration system, is there a. Sort of a maintenance protocol that the building owners would, would need to follow that goes forward as well. That's Mr. Novak. Yes, Mr. I'll start with that. And if there's anything else that needs as part of the. Presentation, there's an operation and maintenance. A portion of that that has a during construction and a post construction. And they're usually set up to be under the contractor during the. During construction and then they transferred to the. You know, owner of the property, as Mr. Felmos saying, probably the. The HOA and part of the master deed. So yes, there is. And it's, it's for any piece of stormwater that's proposed on the site in particular, the infiltration system that's going to be used as well. Great. And if I could add to that, Mr. Chair. The fortunate thing about this infiltration system is. Is it serves exclusively roof runoff? So it's not going to be, you know, subject to the same level of sedimentation and trash and contamination that it would be if it had served pavement. So I think you will still want to see an O and M plan, but in terms of the board's concern for its. Viability. You can, you can rest assured it's going to function for a long time. Okay. And lastly, is there any observations about what the, the current flow condition is from this site across that parking lot? I wasn't. I noted that. You know, the plan is to, you know, not increase the flow across that parking lot. But I was curious as to what sort of the current condition of that flow is. I don't know if that is something that maybe came up when. Matt, when you were discussing the possibility of doing mitigation at the riverfront, if that was something that the condo association brought up anything about. The existing flow of water across that parking area. There was no discussions between us and the board. And I'll let Mike comment relative to the free and post. Yeah, so thank you, Matt, Mr. Chair, the. The runoff, I'll make sure that it's very clear as to what's going on in terms of the runoff to that parking lot. In terms of the numbers, the goal is to reduce, but until I know I'm reducing, I'm going to say at least meeting. And until, but the, the other thing to look at too is there's two existing parking areas out there now that are going to be removed. And, you know, the rest of the runoff within the, within a hundred feet of it is all going to be that, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the re planted area and the meadows. So the. The contamination that could be gone through there is, it's pretty much removed. And then you also have about a hundred plus feet of natural. Area to remove any sediment and anything like that. Because the, just for everybody to be on the same page, the parking area for this building is internal. And we'll have a grease trap and internal collection. And we'll be being discharged either. So the state of it now, I'm not really, I don't have a lot of information on, but I can certainly say that I think we're making some improvements to it. Okay. And Mr. Chair, if I could just sort of. Yes, please. Try to sort of articulate my concern. So right now it's, it's hard to figure out how water leaves the existing site and crosses the parking lot. Usually you'd see staining or some evidence of it. Yeah, I was looking through it. I couldn't figure out visually where water was cutting across the sidewalk, but you know, it does at some point. My principal concern is. There's no infrastructure. It doesn't look like there's any collection infrastructure on that parking lot. So really anything coming from this site is just going to sheet across their parking lot and end up in the, in Millbrook. And what I'm most concerned about is, you know, are we adequately understanding how sort of that discharge changes and are we want to be careful? We're not creating like an icing condition or some unsafe condition on that parking lot by virtue of how we've sort of, you know, changed, although in a small way it could be substantive. So I just wanted to make sure that we try to give some definition to that. Okay. Thank you. Are there any questions from the board? I do not see any. So we've had presentations from the applicant and the board's. We've had presentations from the board's consultants about issues involving wetland areas of the site and stormwater and how that will be mitigated on site. So. Are there, is there anything further from. Either the applicant or the. The board's consultants on those two topics. I have one related issue that I just want to make sure we keep in mind is. So some of the slopes on the walkways and the grading don't appear to meet accessible. Slope requirements. So what we want to do is make sure that if, if, if something's needs to be, I'm not really that familiar with accessibility laws as it relates to the architecture, but if something needs to be accessible, we're going to have to demonstrate that it meets those grading requirements. Very good. Thank you. With that. So tonight's hearing will shortly be open for public comment. But before we do, I want to review some ground rules for effective and clear conduct of tonight's business. So public questions and comments are taken only as they relate to the matter at hand and should be directed to the board, the purpose of informing our decision. Due to previously demonstrated interest in the project and to provide for an orderly flow to the meeting. The chair directs individual public speakers to try to limit their comments to four to five minutes. So I'm going to use their time to provide comment related solely to the topics discussed at tonight's hearing. There are other nights that will be discussing other topics. So I really would like to, while we have the benefit of having our, excuse me, our, our stormwater consultant and our wetlands consultants present, I do want to try to limit the questions to those topics to best use their time. So please note there are multiple hearing scheduled and each hearing will have an opportunity for public comment. The chair encourages the public to provide written comments to be reviewed by the board and included in the record. The chair will first ask members of the public who have previously identified themselves by logging in through zoom who wish to speak to digitally raise their hand using the raised hand button in the participants tab of the zoom application. You'll be called upon by the chair and you may unmute yourself and you'll be asked to give your name and address to the record. And then you'll be given time for your questions and comments. All questions are to be addressed through the chair. Please remember to speak clearly and concisely in a way that will help us generate an accurate record of the meeting. Those calling in by phone, you may dial star nine to indicate you would like to speak when called upon you may unmute your line. Please identify yourself by name and address the record and you'll be given up to four minutes for questions and comment. Excuse me five minutes. All questions are to be addressed through the chair. Please remember to speak clearly and concisely and in a way that helps generate accurate minutes. And once all public questions or comments happen address. Or we have reached the hour of 10 o'clock. The public comment period for this evening's hearing will be closed and as previously noted, there are multiple hearing scheduled for this project and each hearing will have an opportunity for public comments. And the board and the applicant and the staff will do our best to show documents being discussed. And if you'd like to ask for a specific document to be discussed, you can do so. So with that. One second here to jot down the names in order. Okay, with that, the first name is Susan stamps. Oh, thank you so much. I appreciated all of the discussion. I pretty appreciated. I'm afraid I have to ask you for your address. I'm sorry, Susan stamps 39 Grafton street. I'm on the tree committee, but speaking as an individual. I appreciated. The conservation commission chairs. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm not complimenting the pollinator gardens that are. Being proposed. I am concerned about stormwater flooding there along the bill. Milbrook. I think that's a, if you look at, I just looked at Google maps satellite view. At the tree canopy cover along Mass Ave. All the way from Cambridge line up to Trader Joe's. To the north of the city of Cambridge. And the idea of taking down all those trees. Right along Millbrook seems like not a good idea. Those, those tree roots are picking up a lot of water. In heavy rains. And I think there's been discussion of Millbrook. Could possibly overflow. If there are extreme rains. Which you know there will be. And it just seems like a bad idea to. Take certainly to take all the trees down. So I would like more discussion about that. Also, I know that over the years, there's been discussion of a Millbrook linear park. And I'm wondering if the ZBA has the inclination or the ability. To ask for a public easement along Millbrook. On that property. And which could tie into the wonderful linear park. That they have constructed. More to the east towards Grove street. And let's see. I also. On the stormwater issue. This is my last comment. Any surfaces that could be made permeable and pervious. I would like there to be an emphasis on that, especially as you get closer to the brook, but really anywhere on the property. And those are my comments. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. The next speaker. Is. David Pritzer. Thank you. I'm David Pritzer. I live at 44 Grove street in Arlington. So I asked them. One who's basically on the same block of this project. I just want to thank everyone for their very informative presentations. I think this is an excellent project. And I hope. That everyone's able to work together to make it successful. I'm particular. I'm really happy with the idea of. Replacing. The Norway maples with planning. That will provide more, more habitat value over the longterm. With a pollinator garden and other plantings. I think that's great. As a local resident, I've seen firsthand. How milk, brook does currently flood and how that can threaten. Local buildings. And so I do think anything that can be done. To not just maintain, but improve the stormwater management. And so I think that's great. I think that's great. As a local resident, I've seen firsthand how milk, brook does currently flood and how that can threaten. And so I think that it's really important to make sure that. That the water is, that the water is still going to be free of the storm water management. On this property will be very valuable. To both, both to the town and to local residents. And so I think that should be. Definitely valued through this process. I mean, I think. I'm glad that the. Applicants taking storm water management seriously. And I think any benefits. The community of right. That are just very. Valuable, but I think this is a great location. So I definitely support this project and I hope that it that it is successful. And I'm glad that a lot of the impacts of this project are being taken very seriously so thank you. Thank you. Next, as any record. Yes, Annie LaCorte 48 Chatham Street in Arlington. I would like to echo Zavid's comments but also maybe add a few of my own. I think that when you're considering a project like this. We need to be considering a forward looking perspective. Not what does the neighborhood look like now, not what's going on now, but what is the condition of the neighborhood and the lot going to be 30 years from now. And this is an opportunity to replace invasive species and a a badly working environment with the kind of plantings and the kind of forward looking environmental effects that are badly needed in these kinds of locations. As anybody who has a Norway maple overshadowing their backyard like I do knows Norway maples literally create deserts beneath themselves they suck up all the water and almost nothing grows there. So the idea that somehow we could retain the Norway maples and plant natives and expect those natives to thrive is a little bit of a contradiction. So I'm excited about how much the developer is taking seriously these environmental effects. And my only regret is that we can't somehow get the Milbrook condo association to turn that driveway into something permeable to help with the run off from the project. So I'm very appreciative of Milbrook and environmental effects and so on and so forth. I'm very pleased with what was presented tonight. And I hope that these will not be the things that stand in the way of approving the project. Thank you. Thank you. Next on our list, Patricia Warden. Thank you, Mr Chairman, Patricia Warden 27 Jason Street. Thank you. I like to say that I would really appreciate Mr Moore's comments. And those who wish to preserve the tree canopy and the clear cutting of large mature trees, which would cause climate damage. The area would probably become a heat island, which is a public health concern. And I do think that the, the nearby Wellington Park is a good example of what we need in that linear park designated area, which, as Mr Stamts mentioned, would benefit from a public easement there. And I think that the biggest hazard to this whole project is its effect on climate change. And my comments on that I would like to keep for another day. But I do think that the humanitarian crisis that arise and the climate change do demand that we take much more care of our trees. I would like to mention that I have several very large. Nacos in my note Norway make us in my backyard. And where we go to sit in summer is underneath the largest of them, which is always 10 degrees lower than the rest of the yard. So they do have tremendous benefits and HSE, a heat island created there. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr Warden. Next on the list is Steve Moore. Yes, Steve Moore of Mont Street. I appreciate. I certainly appreciate everyone's interest in trees and trying to do this right I understand the missile course approach of having kind of a longer term perspective rather immediate. The only issue is that a manufactured urban forests needs care to survive. And all you have to do is look around a lot of the housing developments in Ireland to see forests just die when they're not cared for. And sadly, although the best planning and work can go into making an urban forest that that could thrive. It but is not maintained the forest doesn't necessarily survive clearly this one which is not a great forest I'm not pushing that idea has naturally established itself, and it's very surviving actually very well, it may not be the best use of the land I agree. So more more discussion here that's all I think they're normal perspective it sounds like they're being taken into account and that's, I think that's a good thing they'll be a good compromise at the end. But one, one more technical question. It looks, look to me when I did walk to the site that a lot of the back area where the woods are seems to be kind of a rocky broken up ledge area and I know that a lot of that areas where they intend to sink the water retention pond so to speak. I appreciate the comment and Mr reasons report about not wanting to compact the soil beneath where those structures are going to be so they can absorb the water, what what happens if you drill down and find you get ledge or whatever. Where does the water in those particular manufactured retention areas go after it gets filled up. I'm showing my ignorance if I said anything else. Is there someone that might be able to answer that question here. Yes, Mr more if you could. Would you have a follow up depending on that answer or no, thank you. Thank you. I would like to ask Mr Novak if he's still available he could just address the question because I know that they have done some test pits and some explorations the subsoil condition I think it's sort of a two part question one is. Do we have confidence that it's not ledge underneath and then how do we, what happens if you know the water doesn't move the way that we anticipate it's going to move. Sure, I'll do my best to try to address all of that. We did conduct soil testing on site, we went down 80 plus inches below what's an existing grade now. And we, I'm just going to look at the plants I don't misspeak, while I speak to you, and we found a loomy sand type of material no evidence of ledge down those 80 plus inches. So we're sitting in at elevations of 76 and so on. And we didn't find any groundwater either so no evidence that there was any, anything restrictive or anything happening below that. Matt correct me if I'm wrong. Did did you do additional borings out there as well or we did. Yeah, and was there any legend counter there either. Ver, we hit legend. One of the test borings further up toward Mass Ave. Yeah, I forget exactly where it was but it would, it was within we were, we're conducting geotechnical studies to determine what we needed for foundation bearing. And we did encounter a ledge I think down around 14 or 15 feet and one of the test borings for the building perimeter. I think that that was my recollection but I wanted, I knew you'd have a better handle on it. So, so that's a review, I can say it was refusal, it could have been, you know, a large right, right. I don't know if it was bedrock but it was reviewed. But, but between those my testing and those geotechnical borings we know that we have at least, at least 80 inches if not 14 feet of naturally occurring material before we have to worry about any ledge so I don't anticipate in the rear of that site. There's no counter any ledge that would hinder the implementation of that infiltration system and looking at the overall hydrology of the site and the site next to it, where the water is going to go is, is to the brook. I mean that's where it wants to go that's, that's essentially the lowest point where the water moves. So, I can't say that we won't find it and we'll certainly once we explore and excavate. If there is an issue will have to pivot and figure something else out but it's not anticipated and I hope that helps at least answer some of your, your concerns and questions. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr chair if I could just add a couple things maybe to help a little bit. Steve the stormwater standards the master stormwater standards have whole hundreds of pages on how you analyze infiltration to make sure that a you have set to groundwater, be that you've adequately monitor soils according to soil type so that is robust technical guidance on that. And to Mike's point, the water that infiltrates in the ground goes right into the groundwater table which in turn feeds the stream. The important thing is by infiltrating it you get a whole lot of treatment that doesn't happen if it just runs over the surface so we should be well protected there. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Chair. And some Stuart molten road in Arlington. Just want to reiterate as I have in the past my, my overall support for this. I think it's a good development for the town. of that currently and what is proposed any sort of retaining wall or anything like that. Apologies if I missed this but I think it would help to see some plans that have the contour lines extending through the Millbrook condo parking lot to the brook just to be able to see some of the things we've been talking about on that plan. Thanks. Thank you Mr. Stewart. I don't know Matt if you're not measure if you could address that question sir what is the existing condition where the lot meets the parking behind and what is the proposal? I think I'll let Mike jump on that if he has the plan handy if that's okay. Absolutely. Yeah I think I can still share so I can. You should be able to yes. Yes. So one second sorry I thought that was a little more ready to go. So the the exists oops sorry the existing and I believe the question was the intersection of this property with the Millbrook parking what what is that currently look like and what is the plan for that to continue to look like. So you can see that the property line here is in dark black and then there's an edge of pavement which is the the parking area it's a it's a little tough to see but it almost looks like a double line just beyond that so in between the so that's the edge of pavement that's the parking area that we think of in terms of impervious area there's just naturally occurring materials between that and the rest of the site it it has a shallower slope and and I can certainly as part of addressing Mr. Ribbon's comments we're adding some topography information I can certainly extend it through the Millbrook development but that just having walked it is is relatively shallow and flat it's it's not steep slope so this this site basically as as Mr. Ribbon and I have talked about bellies out into some some lower depressions and then has a slight berm and then and then just gradually ends into the the parking area and again it's it's very shallow so there's not a lot of fast moving water across there which is I think why Mr. Ribbon is concerned about smicing potential we want to make sure that we don't have any worries across that parking lot but the intent moving forward is to is to mimic that is to not change that at all to keep it a natural natural material up to that up to the property line since we obviously can't do anything beyond our property line and just make sure that there's there's no major changes in in terms of how those of those are connected right now and then once it's once you get to the property line are you understand is your are you raising the the rear yard at that point at the back property line no we'll be tying into existing grade okay yeah we don't want to raise a berm or hold anything unless we absolutely have to but the early indications of the drainage design is that we won't have to retain any water there okay that um I just wanted to just quickly follow up um Mrs. Warden you have your hand still up I wasn't sure you had a further comment or I should go ahead and lower it sorry can I say something since I didn't really have my hands up I would like to make one additional comment one additional comment certainly um I just want to say that this site currently has wonderful natural drainage water drainage in its in its own orientation and slope and I think it's very tragic to risk the the situation with the current means of a retaining wall of um unspecified quality and strength so I think that retaining wall really needs to be looked out very carefully thank you thank you mr chairman mr hanlon um I wanted to return a little bit to um what I think may have been part of mr steward's uh a question but it's something that I had earlier um and that is that when you look at the drawing that we just looked at there's there's it almost used to be like the 19th century map showing large portions of the world terra incognita and at the same time we're told that one of the potential advantages of all of this project will be if the applicant succeeds in working on an appropriate arrangement with the uh with the condo association that other things matters near the stream will greatly improve the uh environment there and based on the that all is in the terra incognita part and so you can't really see what what that amounts to and eventually I think we're going to need to see both what's there now and have a better understanding of that area that's between the back property line uh and the yeah and and the creek and I hope that the the applicant I assume actually that the applicant without my saying anything would do something like that but it would certainly be very helpful to the board in understanding what's proposed and the advantages of it and if there are any disadvantages of it if we had uh if we had that map filled in a little bit yeah I could just speak Mr. Handlin that you know until we got the positive indication from the condo association very recently that they're going to let us even go on to their property we we we haven't invested in you know the mitigation design that Rich Kirby uh intends to do for that area between the curb the edge of creek and the edge of parking that's on the Milbrook condo property but you're right we are going to have a plan that is going to be developed to show the mitigation that's going to be undertaken in that area um that will be specified um so you'll we'll get that submitted now that we know uh our ability to be able to execute on some performance in that area uh looks like it's becoming a reality thank you Mr. Filman um so I just want to return to are there any other members of the public who wish to address the zoning board this evening on topics related to uh wetlands or storm water in relation to this project I see no hands up I just wanted to quickly make sure I wasn't missing anyone I do not see any other hands up at this time so with that in mind I will go ahead and close the public comment period for this hearing and I'd like to especially thank all of you who have contributed this evening for your participation uh it is very very helpful and very necessary we appreciate it um are there any additional questions from the board for the the applicant are any of the consultants do not see any um are there any so I there were certainly a lot of takeaways I think that we discussed throughout the hearing and there's a lot of documentation that the applicant is looking to to add and include um in projects going in the projects that going forward so the board looks forward to reviewing that information when it becomes available um looking forward to the next hearing so the next hearing on this on this site will be uh thursday january 26th just two weeks from tonight and we had preliminarily talked about having traffic and related topics as the topic of discussion for that evening I just wanted to touch base with uh with matt maturey and with uh john reardon just to make sure that they're both uh comfortable with that or um an alternative would be we could talk um architectural issues uh with cliff bowmer instead I think that um thank you mr chairman I think we should be able to cover traffic um as well as probably the balance of um mr reardon's civil comments with regard to um constructability and emergency access and we may I'm not sure that we'll we'd eat up a whole meeting so there's a possibility that we could at least begin some initial conversations on on architectural as well if time allowed and mr chair I I it's looking like I'm going to have a conflict that evening I can send our traffic folks to certainly cover the traffic issues I don't think any of those are are terribly involved um and I I don't have a problem sort of working directly with the applicant to address all the comments that we've listed to date and then come back with something maybe after the architectural gets discussed uh we we could if it if it we would also be flexible if we wanted to move my suggestions to the subsequent meeting and focus on architectural at the next meeting I think we'd have that flexibility if it was more productive for mr reardon to be uh present for the balance of the civil and traffic review yeah one thing though matt we have to confirm with that ask that uh our consultants I we know our consultant is available for the 26 we we have to double check availability after that and if mr reardon could have his traffic people from tetra tech um it still may be worthwhile because I think you know traffic tends to be a public-centric concern and I think we'd like to get some feedback from the public as to um if they're satisfied we think the assessment report indicates very little impact but we'd we'd really like to get some public feedback so perhaps I can suggest we do traffic and then jump into architectural and then we would save um constructability and fire access for the subsequent meeting yeah when mr reardon is there okay thank you thank you very much mr chairman mr handlin can I ask you a question is I read the reports one of the major issues that come up having to do with traffic has to do with is also closely related with constructability issues uh since a lot of it I mean a lot of the comments have concerned what happens with the traffic on massachusetts avenue when and if some parts of massachusetts avenue are occupied by construction vehicles and that I'm sure that whole kind of issue will be dealt with in the construction plan um and I'm just wondering how it is that I mean I'm just wondering about separating separating those two off into into separate meetings but I'm just trying to figure out a way of being able to have a hearing on traffic that actually deals with all of the traffic issues and it's a little hard to see how that would work if I could respond to that mr chair yeah um so there are there are a host of other traffic related issues which is like capacity and and safety and things like that that I think it would be a good idea to to cover um I think the access issues and the the safety issues related to traffic are are just as much a civil issue as as much a traffic issue usually when we think of traffic we think more of intersection analysis pedestrian safety and things like that so there are sort of there's not a whole lot of really really big hairy issues for this project largely because it's such a small percentage of the background traffic so um just I think there is there's enough there to cover sort of just like to Paul's point to hear the the neighborhood see what they have to say about traffic related issues as well as to cover those sort of you traditional traffic planning type discussion items okay so yeah because I know there's definitely going to need to be a much larger discussion about constructability um and sort of what the what the impacts are not not only the mass av but impacts to uh to abutting properties and you know how we're going to make all this work on such a small site so that in a lot of the ways that um I think this can get tight can get tied up with a lot of the other civil issues um and then for so let's plan for two weeks now we'll deal with we'll start with traffic and I will see um if I I'll talk to the traffic advisory the transportation advisory committee to see if they can have a member present for that meeting um and then we can from there we can move on and talk about um some of the architectural uh and uh issues that have been been brought up in the through the investigation of our consultant um and working with the applicant um so I think between those two topics I think we should have a full plate for the 26th agreed are there any other um issues that we should address in terms of either planning or um logistics go ahead Mr. Chairman Mr. Hanlon um one of the things that Ms. Chapnick and some others have asked for and that I think that either Mr. Feldman or Mr. Midori has warned us is not likely to fall on sympathetic ears has to do with public access from my point of view I understand the liability issues and and I'm actually sat on condo boards where we're dealt with the same thing so I get how that works um but I'm but at least sometimes there's there are provisions my understanding is for public access and I'd like to sort of see if there are examples of places where that was done and if it was done how the usual obstacles are done so that we don't we don't reject that option or or uh combined with rejecting that option uh without having taken taken a look at a better look at the possibilities than we have in the record now where would we where do you think Mr. Hanlon we would look for examples of such a thing I I would I would assume that we were looking largely at 40 b things and I'm certain that with the experience both of the applicant and the applicant's lawyers and the applicant's consultants that they would be if there are things that are like that that are out there with a reasonable search uh that they would be able to uh identify them okay thank you um and Ms. Chapnick thank you Chairman Klein I'm I just wanted to ask if the applicant new or rich curvy new when we were going to get the updated plans for um the mitigation areas as we're discussed um just in terms of scheduling for review from the conservation commission thank you so what we what we'd like to do miss miss Chapnick and I don't know to what extent you've already been engaged by council or um uh the board chair is Mr. Reardon has suggested and we agree with him that being able to commence uh the etowai review under the wetlands protection act while the comp permit proceeding is going forward has a lot of advantages because it gives the conservation commission you know independent jurisdiction to fashion an order of conditions which then can be um uh aid the zoning board in the comp permit process and we've already committed that we would extend whatever statutory time periods there are or the conservation commission to act on a notice of intent under the wetlands protection act so that um the decision on that would occur after the comp permit process was over and so we've already asked Mr. Kirby to start um um thinking about an NOI filing that has been updated um to include the um urban park that um you saw a little bit about tonight but also now that access to mill brook is more likely what that mitigation is going to look like and I think that if we can get some word from the conservation commission that it's open to receiving an NOI application uh we would get that into you um within the next two or three weeks so that um you know by the time we get past january 26th and we're on to another hearing you will have had an opportunity to start looking at that um uh as as um as the concom chair knows um we actually filed the notice of intent for this project early on in order to get ahead of this issue um and as was pointed out to us the preference was that they'd rather consider an NOI at least after a comp permit application has been filed and frankly the conservation could say you know until a comp permit is issued but it's important to the applicant and we think to this process that there's some concurrent um um review going on because we think it will help coordinate well in protection act issues and a local by war issues so that everything conforms mr chairman may I respond thank you thank you um I appreciate that mr felman um we we actually in Arlington coordinate extremely well the concom and the zba so in the past we have integrated um the bylaw um conditions and the wetland protection act and assisted assisted the zba with that to make sure that if the project is approved the conditions in the wetland areas are consistent between the comprehensive permit and the permit under the wetlands protection act um we're we're open to doing it this way though as well um receiving an NOI from from the um from the applicant from you um I will say that we will not close our hearing um likely the you know the commission has to vote but it's likely that the commission will not vote to close the hearing before the zba has completed their work um because we do want to make sure the conditions are consistent um as you know under the wetlands protection act we'll just be really looking at riverfront and the uh aura the adjacent upland resource area which is a resource area in the town of Arlington is not going to be reviewed under the conservation's commission NOI process however it is under the zba and that's that's why we wait because we want to make sure everything is is consistent um just to give you an example of what we've done in the past even um when the NOI waited till after um the zba had completed their work it only took an extra month in the conservation commission to complete the NOI under the wpa because we do do that coordination so well that said it's really up to you you're the applicant and if you'd like to you know submit the NOI now the conservation commission will open the hearing um we do appreciate that um you're saying you're willing to um to allow continuances because likely the commission would request that additional information and coordination with the zba yeah we appreciate that miss chaplain and we'd like to proceed on that basis um you know every project is different we have contractual obligations with our sellers to achieve uh uh entitlements if we're going to get them by a certain time period it's a very expensive process to the applicant so while a month doesn't sound like a lot of time a month can make a big difference in terms of our permitting period under our contracts and a month can make another substantial difference in in thousands of dollars of of costs so um yes we will we completely understand you'll keep the public hearing open we completely understand no decision will be issued under the wetlands protection act until the comp comp permit process is completed but uh we will and we appreciate we greatly appreciate your flexibility in allowing us to get a notice of intent in we will do that and as i said i think rich said that he's already been working on it but he said he would put together a new more complete filing up to date and we'll talk to him about addressing the mill brook piece um and get that noi application into you um i think you know early february okay thank you very much for that heads up and rich understands that the updated information that is going to come into the noi under the wetlands protection act to the concom should also then be updated for the comprehensive permit because they're they're permitting it under our bylaw which also requires that information 100 100 percent in fact great what we need to do is we need to take the old noi and update it with our compartment filing to date so first we have to update it the other way and then we have to uh in response to what we're hearing tonight get the mitigation plan for the mill brook area developed in detail for both the concom and the zda thank you for that clarification all right um so i think that is everything we had hoped to achieve this evening um mr havarty is there anything else you think we should cover tonight or i think we are good to continue i think we're good to continue mr german very good well with that then i will move to continue the public hearing on the comprehensive permit for the residences at mill brook which is 10 21 10 25 massachusetts avenue until 7 30 p.m on thursday january 26th 2023 second mr handlin so this is a vote of the board to continue uh this public hearing till uh two weeks from tonight at 7 30 um mr dupont hi mr handlin hi mr codelli hi this hoffman hi mr holly hi and the chair votes i we are continued on um the residences at mill brook and i'd like to thank everyone for their um for everything they provided to this tonight's meeting and for all their comments and uh expertise it's really very much appreciated so thank you one and all for that and thanks to you all for a very productive meeting and we appreciate everybody's time thank you very much good night everybody thank you just for the board's sake um so just to review our calendar as we do at the end of our meetings so our next meeting will be the uh thursday january 24th um which is the excuse no it will be tuesday january 24th sorry we have two meetings that week the 24th which will be 189 forestry which has been distributed to the board um and which is a large edition and then um i would also like to spend some time uh reviewing uh the proposed zoning articles that are coming before the arb there's a number of them that sort of impact how uh we would be looking at things there's a couple that have to do with usable open space um which are interesting so i just wanted to uh spend a little bit of time talking about those with the board um as well in the 24th and then the next hearing after that is two days later which is thursday january 26th which as we just said is the comprehensive permit where we'd be talking about traffic issues and architectural issues and then after that um the next would be thursday february 9th which would again be a continuation of this permit and then tuesday february 14th would be our regular meeting um but if mr valarelli do you have you seen anything that would be coming up for the 14th of february um mr chairman there's a couple of requests in in progress but nothing definite yet so okay it's been determined okay thank you we can keep valentine's day free i think there would be some appreciative people but um you know it is what it is i'm sure um and then just to bring the board up to speed so the housing corporation of arlington is putting together a comprehensive permit application for 10 sunnyside avenue uh so they are a non-profit development agency they are proposing uh it would be 43 affordable rental units um with availability between 30 percent and 80 percent of ami um and then a small commercial space is a part of that as well so they made a presentation to the select board on monday and the select board voted unanimously to send a letter of support for the project to mass housing um so that once that letter is in at mass housing um the next step is waiting for a letter of appropriateness from mass housing um at which point it would authorize the applicants to apply for a comprehensive permit so um i'm not quite sure what the timeline on that's going to be i'm hoping it's a little bit longer than quick um but we'll we'll sort of see where that falls i'm anticipating it'll probably we're probably looking three four months out before that can get turned around and completed the way that um things have been going at the state level but we could get surprised so i just want to make sure everyone's aware of that um and then the sort of the last piece is we have um obviously on march 31st is the last date that we're allowed to meet we're fully remote um after that we're we have to come back or do something hybrid or the state needs to act um and so we have we had uh some people come from the from the town to talk to us about hybrid meeting formats i i feel unfortunately like it was a long time ago they came and i have kind of been dragging my feet on this issue um but i think we we had expressed at the time that if we were going to do this we would want to try to do a drive run that was not um a night where we were actually doing something um and unfortunately they offered that thursday nights would be a good opportunity for this because the town offices are open thursday and they told me just too late so alas um i i don't want to take up every single thursday night of your life so um i need to try to come up with another option one question i had for members is would if we were to try to set aside like an hour hour and a half on an afternoon is that something that people could fit into their schedules or like first thing in the morning um this would just be a one-time thing um that we would be trying to accomplish sure i can do that and i say we're shaking your head originally i know that that would work for me i think uh you know i my schedule bounces around a little bit but typically uh tuesdays for thursdays are much busier sometimes on site so uh beginning and end of the week they're usually easier for me if it's just a one-off okay um elaine would that work for you too yeah i mean the sooner the better for me because i'm on lee right now so i have lots of flexibility all right well given that let me see if i can try to arrange for a monday afternoon um i would say friday except that most of town offices are closed at noon on friday so it's just try to arrange this at the time when when town staff are still on the clocks we're not taking up anybody else's personal time um mr mr more uh having gone through this process already yes um do you know yet what room you're going to want to use has anyone proposed a particular room because only so many rooms are set up this way so i had they had talked to us initially about the second floor room in the community center but i've heard that the air conditioning is very loud uh yes and then they mentioned one of the conference rooms at town hall and i don't remember if it's the second floor the third floor conference room in the annex but one of those rooms they had mentioned yeah i would recommend the one in the annex uh it's the best setup and it's got the most it's the best room so if you can choose that one okay and definitely have mr fenea whoever is going to give you instruction take you all through it because it can work quite well it can also be quite messy and it won't take an hour and a half to do your dry run it'll you'll realize pretty quickly it's not that hard once it gets set okay part is the setup and i suggest one of your board be charged with the task of being the technical person okay not you as chairman you're also trying to run the meeting and it just doesn't work during the go okay do you think it would be helpful to have one or two members participating from home just to test that part out as well okay that's what that's what we did we had a couple home we had a couple in the room and the room is actually the equipment's great as long as it's set up right and all right just my two cents no i appreciate it we're we're flying blind into this so that's greatly appreciated all right so i'll get back in touch with um with the town and with the committee and we'll try to get that set up for um a monday in the near future excellent okay that is everything i have in my magic packet of papers so thank you all for your participation in tonight's meeting of the erlington zoning board of appeals i appreciate everyone's patience throughout the meeting i especially want to thank rick valarelli and vincent lee for all their assistance in preparing for and hosting this online meeting please note that the purpose of the board's reporting this meeting is to ensure the creation of an accurate record of the proceedings it is our understanding the recording made by a cmi will be available on demanded acmi.tv within the coming days and if anyone has comments or recommendations please send them via email to zdaatown.arlington.ma.us that email address is also listed on the zoning board of appeals website and to conclude tonight's meeting i would ask for a most in school adjourn so most second and thank you mr. dupont the roll call vote of the board to adjourn for the evening mr. dupont hi mr. handlin hi miss hopman hi mr. holly hi mr. rickard ellie hi chair votes aye we are adjourned thank you all very much great productive meeting and we're seeing you guys in a couple weeks take care everybody