 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Today we're discussing a very significant international development. We're looking at how the Adani Group has actually managed to get a clearance from the Queensland government in Australia for their cold project. And to talk about the kind of timeline of this entire deal and finally the kind of repercussions that this project is going to have on Queensland, we have with us Paranjoy Guha Thakurtha, senior journalist. And Paranjoy, you've been following this issue very, very closely as well. And my first question is that many people on the ground are saying that the Queensland government has finally given in to the kind of bullying that Adani has been doing to get the clearance for this project. So what has actually happened? How do you see the significance of this clearance? All right. Let's take a few steps back. On Thursday, the 13th of June, the Brisbane where the Queensland government is headquartered gave the approval for this project together with the approval that came from the federal government based in Canberra. Now you must remember that this project was initially proposed almost a decade ago. It was at that time described as the world's biggest green field coal mining project. And among maybe the top 10 or 12 in the world, a project of its kind. Since then, what was originally proposed, it has been fairly drastically scaled down. And the reason why it has been scaled down is on account of the opposition by environmental groups. I'll give you some figures to highlight how it has been scaled down. Initially it was proposed that over 10,000 people would be directly employed and many times that number would be indirectly employed. Now the company says that 1,500 individuals would be directly employed and roughly 6,750 would be indirectly employed. Now the writing on the wall was very clear. Today, Mr. Gautam Adani is predictably exultant. He is very, very happy. I quote what he said. He said today, our remarkable journey of conviction, resilience and commitment in Australia enters a new phase. And the Queensland Premier Anastasia Palace Cook who had been backing this project, she had been really, she said she was fed up because the federal government had been taking its time. Just remember that over the last 18 months, there have been at least a dozen different versions of the groundwater management program. Now why is this very significant? Why is it very significant is because of a number of reasons. But before I go into the environmental aspect, let me flag two or three political points. It became fairly apparent that this project would come through, not only because it was going to create jobs, maybe not 10,000 jobs but 1,500 because in Queensland, this is going to be the first coal mining project of its kind in more than 50 years. Remember this is the biggest investment by an Indian company in Australia historically. But the point that should be noted is that when in May, the Liberal National Coalition won a surprise victory, nobody was expecting it, it was a third consecutive three-year term beating anti-encompassing sentiments and the Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, he defeated his political opponent, Bill Shorten, who is the leader of the opposition and he was heading a Labour Party-led coalition which included the Greens, which were very, very vehemently opposed to the project and the Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, has been a supporter of the mind like the Queensland Premier. So in that sense, once there was the political situation changed in May, one should not have been surprised that this happened. Now you must remember that there were very, very strict environmental guidelines which had to be approved of and one of the important things and this is why the project is very significant that this is a very, very remote area and many would consider to be actually the last of its kind, one of the last unspoiled desert areas of its kind in the world which has one of the largest desert OASIS which is the Dunmabula Springs complex. Secondly, it's also worth noticing that this area is very close to the Great Barrier Reef which is the world's greatest coral reef system, it's a world heritage site, it's a very, very popular tourist destination, people from all over the world, it generates a lot of jobs also. So it was not just the environmental activists and by the way the other important thing was it was very important and a plan, it took some time that it was only recently approved that it was important to protect the habitat of the black-throated finch which is a very it's an endangered species of earth. And last but not the least, just a day before, Thursday before this came, the Australian Conservation Foundation won a major case against the federal government because while evaluating Adani's North Galilee water scheme and its plans to pump out about 12.5 billion litres for from the Sutter River over the following two years of negotiation that's near the mine site called the Pekka Michael mine site and the federal government was hauled up by the court saying they had not properly assessed the representations and submissions given by over 2,000 members of the public. Two other points, initially this coal mine was going to be 60 million tonnes a year then it came down to half the size, less than half, 27.5 and initially it's going to be I think 8 to 10 million tonnes a year. In terms of costs, first it was supposed to be close to 8 billion, 7.8 billion dollars now it's down to 1.5 billion dollars and almost all of it is now going to be funded by Adani himself because the banks are not willing to loan, why the banks are not willing to loan? Because there are huge risks involved, the international prices of coal have not gone up, coal is no longer fashionable, people are moving towards solar and so when in the Paris Climate Agreement Australia pledged to cut down its emissions by 26% the period is 2005 to 2030, many people believe it's hypocritical that it should be supporting this big coal mining project and pledging something else into the international community, yes. So now you're picking up on the kind of reactions that are coming in from environmentalists as well. So there were huge protests and all of this was, would you say that this was ignored and this hypocritical stance was then taken, how has this happened? How has Adani group in terms of their influence has managed to convince this deal to get clearance now? Okay, let's not underestimate Mr. Gautam Adani's power to influence. We know in India how he is rightly wrongly perceived to be an industrialist who is very close to Prime Minister Narendra Modi, the fact is even in Australia he has become almost like a test case, I mean to the environmentalist he is the big villain, to those who support him he is this great creator of jobs, but the fact is interesting, this first mine would actually pave the way for the establishment of six other mining projects, in fact many argue that given the fact that international prices of crude oil, I beg your pardon not crude oil, thermal coal have not really gone up in recent times, the view is that this project becomes viable only if those six other projects come up and importantly the railway line which is supposed to connect that mining area, the Carmichael mining area to the port which is the Abbot Point port which is roughly 400 kilometers away. Now initially Adani wanted to build the entire railway line but now I think he is going to be building about half but it's yet to be finalized, let me put it this way because that coal is going to be exported and much of it Adani at least hopes would be to India to his own power projects some of which are located in the coastal areas and he as you know controls the way in which ports, many many ports function including the Mundra port which is the country's biggest private port. Yeah, so with this development now and keeping all these factors in mind how do you see this planning out in the sense that when do you see this actually taking place and do you actually see that irrespective of the protests this project is actually going to now take off. Yeah, at least that has been claimed by the CEO of Adani Australia, he's saying we are ready to go, we are going to start right now. The point is Adani Australia CEO his name is Lucas Tao, he is saying we are going to go right away and they are going to start work immediately but I believe that they may not be able to proceed at the pace that they originally thought and I think at the same time the environmentalists they are not going to give up that easily. I think they are politically very influential and also they are in that sense far more resourceful and let's see what happens the railway line is yet to be finalized, the local the original inhabitants their association had also protested but it seems somewhere along the line the promise of jobs is really what has prompted both the Queensland government and the Australian federal government to give it because everywhere including this country you know when you promise jobs to become politically popular let's wait and watch and see whether the promise of new jobs and a revival of the economy of that part with the very remote part it's the the north the northeastern part of Australia whether those considerations prevail over considerations where coal is no longer the preferred mineral for generating electricity world over all over the world in Australia in India in China everywhere across the world there's a movement towards renewable sources of energy and then finally at the end of the day the economics of it all I mean I mean at the end of the day you're going to export that coal to other countries in the world but what happens to if the price of coal doesn't go up I mean what happens to the economics of it all and how you're going to fund it all because as we know banks across the world refused to fund it even Chinese banks at one stage thought would bail that project out it hasn't now Adani has no choice but to fund the entire project if you recall there was a very controversial meeting in March 2015 around the time the group of 20 countries met in and Prime Minister Narendra Modi with Mr. Gautam Adani and Mrs. Arun Dhoti Bhattacharya who was then heading India's largest bank the State Bank of India signed an MOU a memorandum of understanding to extend a loan of about a billion dollars for the project which never finally came through it was never formally approved by the State Bank of India so clearly it's not just the environmental aspects which are contentious and controversial it's also the economics of the project which are now I mean which are being questioned and how father that project would be time alone can tell how these considerations would play out. So on that note if the economics of the project and the promise of jobs how is all of this going to play out we are leaving you with these questions and we will keep following the project more closely. Thank you Padanjoy for joining us and giving us insights to the project and how it has actually transpired over the years. Thank you for watching.