 Good morning to those of you who are here. Welcome. And it looks like people are still filing in. I see that number going up. So my name is Franny and I'm your host of liquid margins. Welcome to the fourth episode of liquid margins. Today it's called experimenting on the margins, annotating science. I'd like to introduce our guests now. We have Allison Colazar from Colgate University and Jennifer Blake Mamoud from also from Colgate University, and then Jeremy Dean, not from Colgate University, but from hypothesis. And with that, I'm going to let Jeremy take it away. Thanks. Hi everybody. I'm super excited to be part of this conversation. My parents work at the National Institutes of Health. I have a brother who is a PhD in neuroscience and sisters and MD and he's worked in an emergency room at Mass General. My little brother majored in chemistry in college and my wife is a PhD in animal behavior. But I am a PhD in English. I'm a humanist. And so I'm out of my league here. I'm, you know, I come from a discipline where close reading of text is, you know, the foundation of the discipline of English and literary studies. And so I've, and I've always been interested in impressing my parents and siblings and wife about how annotation could be used outside of the sort of traditional, you know, area of, you know, annotation and close reading. And so I want to start by asking the panelists sort of that like, you know, how is annotation not just for the human for the humanities, right, because I might get that question from a lot of institutions as well. Why is annotation, why is reading, why is close reading important in the sciences as well and maybe we can start with you Jennifer. So I think that a lot of times people come into science thinking, oh, we get to be independent and we get to just do our own thing. And I didn't think that's often the perception of students as well, but that's not really how it works right so collaboration around text is something that happens in lab group settings. It happens informally over lunch and over coffee right so we're used to reading papers and gaining information in that way. So I'm thinking the science of our, of our field and then talking about it with others. And I would say that texts are foundationally important for what I do as an ecologist and plant biologist. That's super interesting Jennifer I especially like how you started out with saying, you know, people think they can do their own thing in science and I certainly frame it the same way when I talk about annotation and humanities right. There's a conversation that precedes you, right, and no construction of knowledge can can begin without some attention to that conversation that precedes you and engaging with that conversation that precedes you so I especially like that piece of what you said. Allison you have anything further to add. I absolutely agree with Jennifer that that it's science is very much collaborative. And I think that annotation collaborative annotation is a really great way to show that to students to show the collaborative nature of this. I also think it's just absolutely wonderful for, I guess demonstrating to students how the that it's totally normal to sit down with something to sit down with a scientific paper and to have that discomfort of I have no idea what this is about. And that discomfort is normal and and that's how it's supposed to be when you're reading a new paper otherwise there wouldn't be a reason to read it if you already knew everything. And so I love being able to use the collaborative annotation process as a way of showing students, making that confusion visible, but then also using it as a way to collectively work through that confusion. So that discomfort and here's how we can work through it here's how we can get stuck on something and not understand a concept and and that that process of working through it and making sense of it that's normally very invisible and very solitary. I love how this sort of allows us to do that collaboratively or collectively. We're going to have to steal some of the lines from that response for our marketing materials I love the making confusion visible. Working through that confusion this idea that you're, you know, you're not alone it's not necessarily a solitary practice. I'm going to go in there a little bit because you know part of what you know we do in the humanities when we're close reading and annotating is developing certain literacy literacy skills, right so if I'm teaching a poem. I'm going to be asking students to really break down the component parts of that poem understand the devices and concepts and illusions that might go into into the creation of this work of art. What are the sciences and maybe we can start with you and go the other way this time Allison, you know what are the, you know, where does the confusion come up what types of, you know, what is what is that what are the objects or the artifacts within a document where confusion comes up and where certain literacies need to be developed for for students that are you know entering college level science courses. Honestly, the most obvious answer here but the one that really comes up a lot is jargon right there's we can you call it jargon you can call it terminology. It's the, the, it's really common in scientific literature, and even in the sort of pop science articles that I use a lot of those at sort of intro level courses. It's really common for students to for any reader to stumble across something that you just you don't have the background knowledge this isn't something you're familiar with. And so it's it's I think really helpful to be able to annotate through that jargon and to indicate how you where you found information when I have. When I ask students to make those types of annotations I always have them cite the source for where they got the information and so it's also a way of showing the using your external resources but then also in science it's always important that you you cite your sources. So students are citing sources in annotations. Yes, they have to if they're if they're adding they're adding information to an annotation that comes from elsewhere that's not just their personal knowledge they have to indicate where that information came from it doesn't have to be a formal citation but a link or something like that. But so they're sort of practicing scientific literacy and performing scientific literacy simultaneously that's that's cool. Jennifer anything to add here about sort of what is it that we're annotating in the sciences what kind of literacies are we developing One of the things that I add or some kind of meta textual information about what's actually being done in the paper at the different points. So sometimes when you read a paper in science it can be practically unintelligible right and it seems like there may not be method to the madness. So trying to call out to students okay you know this is what they're doing here they're trying to set the stage or they're trying to highlight gaps and knowledge. Information like that I also use hypothesis to provide encouragement along the way because there are some parts of the paper where you read through it and you think oh my gosh that was horrible right. Like that made no sense whatsoever so I will see annotations with like I know this is confusing skin this keep going, you know or read for the big picture here and keep going because I think there are some students. Who get to those really tough places and they do one of two things they either double down and they spend 45 minutes reading two paragraphs which is not helping them. Or they get to that spot and they think oh my gosh this is horrible I'm done. And neither one of those are helping us kind of practice the process of science. So just kind of encouraging them to get through the tough places I think has been helpful. So what are we actually annotating here. What are we attaching hypothesis to in your courses what types of documents Jennifer let's start with you. What are students actually annotating. It depends on what type of course I'm teaching so for upper level courses like juniors or seniors. We're actually annotating peer reviewed literature. So when I taught a freshman level course that's supposed to be interdisciplinary in what's called our core program. We were, I think we did one scientific paper there we were reading other things sometimes chapters out of books sometimes pop science sometimes news articles, and I use hypothesis for anything that I thought the students would need some extra support for. Encouragement from their peers or things that might be a little bit confusing. What about you Allison what are they actually annotating. Many of the the same types of readings that Jennifer has listed here. So, scientific articles and and as she said you know I think that the with scientific articles and upper level courses it's incredibly helpful for helping students work through the how do we read one of these papers, but also at the at the intro level courses it's really helps to make them more accessible by preceding them. I also often use news articles and pop science articles that are some application of whatever technical details we were learning that week, a way that an environmental issue is coming up in the news editorial something like that. This semester, so this isn't something I've done yet but I'm really excited to this fall semester I'm going to be using an open access textbook. And so I plan to since we'll be teaching remotely since I'll be teaching remotely. I'm actually hoping to to use the annotations to deliver a lot of the asynchronous course content and so much of the course content will be living in the margins. So I'll be annotating with the information that I would normally be providing in a lecture so links to videos of demos me doing demos explanations of things links to other sources places where they can watch a short visualization of something. So the textbook piece will be new to me this semester but I'm excited about that. I've also used use this for governmental reports like the IPCC reports. The intergovernmental panel on climate change and helping students work through those watching students work through those I keep saying helping students but really in many cases it's not me helping them it's them working through it together with each other. Well that's cool. I like the idea of annotating government reports with students. I want to just follow up on that Allison because I think you know we maybe you know people in the margins of the of the video conferencing here in the chat might have annotations to add to the conversation I don't know people can unmute but this idea and well. What textbook or do you know what textbooks are using what the sources because you know people might find that interesting if they're interested in bringing in open textbooks, open resources and following this lead but you kind of made a shift there right because previously we've been talking about student annotation. And this new assignment you're thinking of is instructor instructional annotation preceding you know preceded into a textbook or content before the students arrive which sounds like a brilliant idea what textbook are you using and maybe talk a little bit more about the kinds of content you're thinking about inserting in there to guide students as they encounter this text. So the course that I'll be teaching this fall is a course called Sustainable Earth and it's an intro level geology course and it's to be honest finding a good textbook for this course is something that I've struggled with for a couple of years here now because it's sort of an environmental geology course but it has also a lot of the sustainability emphasis that's not always covered in those textbooks so I've often had to cobble together. And for better or for worse that's that's actually going to work pretty well here by doing an open access textbook. I'm pulling chapters from a couple of different ones. And so some of those are physical geology textbooks at the beginning of the semester we talked about setting the stage earth cycles play titanics how that drives climate. We're going to be using more sort of traditional physical geology textbooks for that but then moving more into the sustainability side of things and some of a number of different sustainability textbooks so sorry this is a long answer to a short question, not just one textbook, but by doing it this way I can sort of pull chapters from a variety of different ones. And you anticipate going in and helping, you know, like elucidate a concept with the video that kind of thing. Yeah, so normally, you know, in a traditional teaching face to face setting, there would be some technical reading before class and then, and then in class time I would be talking about these concepts and more detail and and I always have students do something in class it's not just me talking about stuff. And so they would be doing hands on demos that we'd be looking at short video clips we'd be talking through stuff together they'd be pouring over a big piece of paper and sketching stuff out together. And so the prompts for those types of things. I'm hoping to have them live in the annotations and the little as you're reading through a section. The piece that I would talk about in class instead all put in an annotation with a little video of me talking about that or like I said doing some demo and showing something or a link to another resource to to sort of supplement that an animation or something like that. Very cool. And I'm seeing something in the chat that I kind of want to bring in here you're talking about creating multimedia annotations for your students in the margins of your textbooks. That's awesome. Do either of you ever use ask students to do anything besides right with text I mean you mentioned links Allison. But Jennifer, have you ever thought about images or video or do students use images or video or links in different ways and annotations for your course. Well they're pretty tech savvy bunch so some of them figure out along the way that you know they can do a lot more than just right so in the past I haven't explicitly asked them to use multimedia. But I think I will be talking it up more this coming fall to encourage them to do that because we do a lot of things in the course that are image based. And I think this would be a way to connect back to some of that other content, as well as other things that they're running into. Anything to build on that Allison you touch upon this a little bit but do you ever have students explicitly use images and video and their annotations or see them doing it naturally themselves. I've encouraged them to do so. And every softener student will throw in an annotation with sometimes a song or I've had a student throw in like a music video that had something that was that was tangentially related and I just really love the idea as we're reading through things of going down wormholes frankly and I really encourage students to do that in their annotations I think that it it's. I think that there's this tendency to kind of compartmentalize science right science with sort of capital S to compartmentalize it and not see the applications of it and so I really love it when students use annotations not just with text but with multimedia to really find these different connections and find these different wormholes I've had some students that have annotated with memes which has always been enjoyable as well. That's so awesome. I love this idea of like go you know going down a wormhole and almost making that like an explicit instruction like find a wormhole in this article and go down it you know some create a meme for it or find some pop culture reference to the concept you know I thought about that they might be playing that they might be giant song science is real as the at the beginning of this little podcast whatever we call this the show I think is what we call it internally. I'd be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to my wife here in this conversation of multimedia annotation because she long ago when I was working at rap genius with collaborative annotation and experimenting with the science class when she had students annotating academic science articles and I'm going to drop in a link to a an assignment she wrote a long time ago. That was for genius and sort of has been divorced of its the specificity of the tool and also the specific specificity that this originating science but she had since anti scientific articles and she's an expert in frog song. So she had students annotating an article about frog localizations and you know part of what the students did and I think it was built into the assignment was to you know add images of the frog right or the YouTube videos of the frog song and I remember the funny story from that anecdote is that at some point somebody found the frog song the frog calls remix to like Panamanian disco tech music because it was a Panamanian frog. So anyway that kind of stuff I don't mean to sort of brings the brings the text to life and bring science to life in certain ways I think. I love that idea of wormholes. Could you each talk about how you introduce, you know an annotation assignment I'm a student in your course. I have a reading, and do you give students either at the beginning of the course to talk about the role of hypothesis generally, or you could think about a specific like when I do this particular article. This is the prompt he talks and get sort of drill down into how you introduce students annotations or a particular annotation activity that you've had students perform. And let's start with Jennifer since Allison talk less. So, I actually start with an activity that I believe I stole from Allison, which is I have him annotate my syllabi. So, I give them a syllabus and I say you know we're going to be using this annotation software throughout the semester so please go and check it out and annotate the syllabus, you know, make some comments just so they have a low stakes way of experimenting with things and seeing, seeing what it's like. And then from there, we start going into annotating annotating papers but it is. It's something that I kind of frame as part of a larger building of a scholarly community within the course. So I try to have a lot of inter interdependent work that happens and build in community they're not just via group projects right like okay there's one group project that you have to do during the course of the semester, but really building a community of scholarship so I talk about annotation as being part of how we do that. That's great. And of course we have scholars and scientists outside of formal, you know, teaching contexts that are using hypothesis for lab groups and for collaboration across, you know, scientific publications. Allison anything to add here. Well I'll just I'll say here that the annotating the syllabus I stole that idea from someone else I think that was a Remy clear has a great great writing online about that and so that wasn't that wasn't something that I came up with my own, but I really also love that and I started every semester with that with annotating the syllabus. And as Jennifer said I think it's a great sort of entry into the process of annotation. I also really like it because students flag things on the syllabus that are either if there's any sorts of confusion on there but but more interestingly to me is when there are topics that are interesting to them topics that they're already a little bit invested in or topics that relate to, again the wormholes right they're pulling in other courses that they've taken things that this reminds me of something else that I've seen. And so I love being able to have that at the beginning of the semester because then I can kind of you I know which topics they're already invested in. So building from those syllabus annotations has been really helpful with then kind of not necessarily choosing the topics but choosing the direction that we might go with some of the topics based on comments that they've made. I want to double down on my question though because I love the annotation the syllabus assignment but you know what am I, what are you asking students to do. One of the things you're asking them to look for. When you're reading scientific literature whether it's pop or scarly. What practices are they meant to be enacting how are they supposed to ask questions. Are they supposed to define terms. What kind of direction do you give them in terms of like what am I supposed to do with the annotations. This is a cool tool. I like being able to come on the syllabus. What am I actually supposed to be doing when I'm reading this article and writing annotations that you may or may not be grading. Okay, yeah so so you asked you know where they're supposed to write questions are they supposed to the answer to all of those is yes they I encourage them to do all of those things I the the guidance that I give I give them a couple of examples of annotations from other courses from previous previous annotations but I encourage them to an annotation should just add it should add something substantive it should be additive. It should be constructive it should be substantive it should be additive it should be whichever of these modifiers you'd like to use. And so that can often be a explanation of here's a word I didn't know what it meant here's a link I found it or this was interesting to me and I wanted to know more about it I went here. It's, it's, it's sort of adding contents in any way that they feel is additive I guess that's a little recursive sorry. No that's great Jennifer anything. Do you define additive in any way or direct what additive means in any way. Do you have another way that you prompt students in terms like well what am I supposed to do. Professor in my annotations on this reading. So I agree that the answer to your question was yes all of the above. I tell them that I'm looking for something that shows me they have meaningfully engaged with the text. So, for some students who want to check boxes this can be frustrating right because it's like well what do you want. One of the strengths of the annotation software is that there are multiple ways to approach this and to be successful in the annotation right there's not just one way to do it and that they can do a variety of things. They can do the same thing every time right like if they, if they're primarily a question asker on one text, they can be a question answer on the next right it doesn't mean that they have to play a specific role the entire time. And I give them examples right and then in class. If we meet face to face, then I will pull out questions or points of confusion or really good observations that were made in the margins and then talk about that in the class. If you're all online then I try to come back after the fact and make some comments about things that students have written. But I do try to wait a little bit on that so I will often precede an annotation but then I will let the conversation kind of evolve because I don't want it to be. Here are these interesting things that people have said and then I as a professor come in oh yeah great here look at this check this out right I want the students to actually be having that conversation amongst themselves. So I will give them, you know, sometimes a couple of days sometimes you know over a week before I come back in the kind of mop up and resolve any any issues that might be still lingering there. I love that. Well, I don't know if either of you have sort of something that you were hoping to share that I haven't been able to draw out with a question. Or if Franny has seen anything in the margin of the video chat that that we want to surface here for the group. I think this is an amazing this been amazing conversation and provides a lot of, you know, help to folks might be starting with annotation the science classroom, any friends or anything you want to bring out. There's a recent question how do you get students to return to the annotated text later to see what others have added I think that's an interesting question to ask. Allison if you want to start. Sure. Yeah, so that was that was actually one other thing that I I think it's always interesting when I hear about other people using hypothesis. I like to hear what they have the students doing but then also like what do you do with what the students do what do you do with the annotations after they're there and Jennifer just talked about sort of coming in afterwards and I like the idea of the mop up afterwards. But the one of the courses that I taught this past semester. It was a small course and so what I would do is their annotations at the end of the week. Friday's class was basically going through a usually a pop science article some application and using their annotations to kind of guide the story arc of our class so working our way through the article with the story art created by their annotations. And so with that, I would have the document pulled up in class and we would work through them together and so in that case the students were returning to the annotations collectively all of us together. And then at the end of the semester, because we were surprisingly online and I wanted to do something very different for the final exam I like the idea of a finale rather than a final. And so I had them return to their annotations to each annotated article for their final exam and find an annotation and respond to it in such a way to demonstrate how their, how their understanding of something has evolved over the course of the semester and so in that case they were returning to the annotations at the end of the semester and going through all of them that way. And before Jennifer jumps in on talking about how to, you know, bring students back to the, to the text I will say thanks to Anna for asking a question in the q amp a part of the zoom. That's a great place to surface because you know, Nate is in the chat talking about Mickey Mouse which is distracting me so you really have a question for the panelists. You might put it in the q amp a and then that'll be easier for us to surface it. Jennifer any strategies for bringing students back to the text. So when we made the pivot to online, I explicitly asked them to go back and re engage with a couple of questions that I had flagged so after students would read the text before class. I would go in and I would mark questions that I thought were especially provocative ones for which there's not a clear answer right. That people could really go back and forth on. So then I marked those and then the students were asked to come back in and, you know, pick two questions and kind of follow up with those. Another thing that I did with these to kind of encourage students to, to go back and read the annotations was that students were responsible for being kind of in charge of a paper right so presenting that in some way to their peers helping lead the annotations and they were instructed to use the annotations. So, as a group we decided when the annotations would be due right so you should be completed by, you know, 5pm the night before. And this would kind of be like a brain trust for the students who were presenting and they could rely on those annotations for the discussion questions if they needed to or for understanding the paper. There was kind of this iterative process because I agree that I think it is hard, especially for the students who are maybe really quick to go in and annotate. You know, you don't want them to always just be the first person and the first voice right you want them to be able to come back and see what's going on and what has developed since they read it. Oh, that's great. Thank you. We have a couple more. Let me just follow up on that real quick with Jennifer for a second for any. So Jennifer you mentioned this a couple times I'm just going to be a literary snob for just a minute and needle you know this is a straw man thing but I want you to sort of perform this for our listeners. You've mentioned conversation or discussion or debate, right, and a couple times and sort of students going back and forth and debating something. And, you know, so obviously that happens in art and in literature, like why does that happen in science and what context does that happen in science right I mean it's science right you should wear a mask that stops the virus right and the conversation there shouldn't be a debate like so, like what what are what are folks going back and forth about what is that debate discussion that talked to me about the discursive aspect of reading scientific literature. So that's a great question. We actually debate things all the time in science and I was talking earlier about kind of meta reading of texts and I think that this is a lot of what happens in the introduction of papers. So in higher level courses I talk about this explicitly right that we have this conversation between what has happened historically, what are the different ideas about why something happens or how it happens right and you have, you know, this view that says it works like this and you came came along and we said no no it works this other way and this kind of back and forth is really integral to the process of how we do science. So I think talking more about that is important is important in the classroom because I think that a lot of people do have this idea right that you said that you know it just is right science just is, but it really is this long conversation over time. It is, it is truly a process. I think, I think it was Carl Sagan who said that science is a way of thinking, much more than is a body of knowledge so trying to model that thinking in the margins I think is an important thing for our students. That's awesome. Allison anything to add there. I think Jennifer summed it up really well. You don't want to upstage Carl Sagan. No, I don't I'm not going to know not going to not going to try that one for any sorry to interrupt you before but I sense an opportunity to have an interesting conversation there about that. No problem at all. Now I'm always for that. We do have a couple more questions and we have a bit more time so I want to get to those and thank you to those of you who actually answered other people's questions that's great. Can you talk about your assessment process for annotation assignments so you give students a rubric for number and quality of annotations. So, I do not give a rubric because I don't really want box checking right like okay I asked a question I defined a word I'm done. But I do try to do to give a variety of of feedback and grades on annotations so to begin with I just had if they didn't if they only did like one annotation that was not really worth much. They didn't get a lot of credit for that now I'm starting to make that pretty low a low grade but something there because zeros can really bring down averages right. So I pretty much have like a check plus check check minus type of system that corresponds to numbers. My idea is if you go in and you do kind of you know a mediocre job but you've engaged with the text, you know that would be the equivalent of a check if you've really like, obviously done some deep thinking about things or pulled out some important parts. Then I give that a check plus and if you clearly did not have enough time but you did try and you put an annotation or two. And that would be a check minus and I found that that gives room for improvement for students but also tries to reward, you know, engaging, even just a little bit which I think is important, especially with coven and all the things that can be going on in students lives. I struggled with the same, same types of things. Jeremy to you referenced the, the flybys right the students who just come in annotate and then never look at it again and and you know Jennifer you talked about the box checking in the first I think the first year or two that I use hypothesis I had given them a recommended annotations per week, maybe three or five, what I called meaningful annotations and I found that that led to a lot of box checking and flybys. And so the past year I've removed the number of recommended annotations I have still given them a rubric, but the rubric instead is of how to demonstrate meaningful engagement with the text right so it may be that somebody only puts in one or two annotations but it's really obvious in those annotations that they have meaningfully engaged with this text this person in this text they have bonded, they have had deep thoughts about it, they've grappled with it and they show that. And sometimes maybe the the annotations don't do quite such a deep dive but the student does sort of more more coverage of the text and annotates in many different ways. And so I, I do still give them a rubric but it's more qualitative and showing that meaningful engagement and then in the first two or three weeks I give them very, very detailed feedback on their annotations and on the grade that they received as a way to to hopefully set the bar high and give them something to strive for. That's great. Thanks I like that quality over quantity. There's a couple more questions. I really like this one. It's about visiting annotators. So, do you have ever have anyone like say the author of an article, come in and annotate their own article or that could be an article that you wrote as well, you know that you're annotating. Not, but that sounds like a great idea. I would love to do that so I'll put that on my to do list for the fall because I think that could be really, really meaningful for folks. Yeah, sounds great. I agree that's not something I've done yet but I really I do like the idea of that I think it's, it's a really, that'd be awesome. Yeah, good luck getting Carl Sagan into Colgate Moodle but outside the Alameda certainly that's a very cool idea. Yeah, really neat. Okay, and then let's see. So is there an ideal group size for annotations that balances active engagement by individuals with critical mass and range of perspectives. So I've used hypothesis in classes as small as it was an independent study with two students. And then I had a small courses past semester with six students and I've used it up to courses that had 25 or 26 students. Honestly, I really loved the way that it played out in the six person class last semester. The students were they knew each other well by the end of the semester there was a lot of dialogue happening a lot of conversation. And I really liked that a lot. But I haven't always had the luxury of being able to do that and I found that even with 25 or 26 students. It's I still feel like there's meaningful engagement that's happening there and meaningful interactions between them. I've done this with small groups of about 10 or 11. I'm going to be up to 12. I'm considering splitting it in half because I think that'll promote more accountability, and then maybe shuffling those groups halfway through the semester so that people can work with different folks. But we'll see I haven't, I haven't yet worked all that out logistically. Great. And then I think this question we did talk about it but it keeps coming up so maybe we should talk about it a little bit more when assigning primary literature do you have them annotate the HTML or the PDF version or does it matter. I've always preferred to go with PDFs just because I've had too many issues with HTML links breaking. I have everything at the beginning of the semester and then by week 14 of the semester something has moved something has changed. And so I prefer to use PDFs for that reason, but I used to host the PDFs online but now with the LMS integration I host the PDFs on Moodle and have it run through there. Same here I do the PDFs. Okay, great. We still have a little bit of time does anybody have any other questions, including our hypothesis people here today Jeremy and Nate. And I suppose if I could think of an intelligent question right now I would ask one myself. I did want to address. Sorry, this is Nate jumping in I did want to address one question that came in a lot earlier or it was really an idea and a suggestion, which was that it would be great if there were a collection of annotation assignments and exercises and practices. The person who put it in suggested in biology, but I just I answered in chat but I wanted to make it clear that we see this as a real need and so hypothesis is kind of in the final stages of preparing a way to collect annotation practices across all the disciplines, but then also be able to sort them by discipline. And so because you registered for this webinar will send you an email. That is, if you don't mind us sending you email about when that collection is ready and so we'll both invite you to to populate it with your ideas as well as you'll be able to browse and search other people's ideas so that's, that's coming up. I just want to add that if there are folks here who don't yet haven't gotten started with hypothesis yet and are, you know, interested in using hypothesis this fall, please reach out to us at that education at hypothesis and we can help you get set up. There may be a bit of a process if we're working to get it into your LMS at your school, but we are offering a free pilot of the LMS integration through the end of the calendar year. So it's a great opportunity for you and your colleagues and your institution to get involved in exploring hypothesis and collaborative annotation partition and learning. Also just want to give a quick shout out to my mom and dad and my brothers and sisters again they're all scientists and so I'll probably send them the link to this at some point I just wanted to say hi mom. I just want to say this has been such a great show and thank you to our guests. Thank you to everyone who attended and to Jeremy Dean and Nate Angel.