 Thank you We're gonna go ahead and get started with this rich conversation I'm so excited to be here with you all tonight to talk about a genre that is foundational to my life, and I'm sure a Favorite of so many of you here. I'm going to ask all of my fellow panelists to come join me And I will share a little bit more about them Lisa McClendon Bishop McKissick radio announcer Promote all the things Freddie Rose. Can we give them a round of applause as they come? Oh You're here Come on down. So I'm gonna open by reading a little bit more about each of you and asking you an opening question First I would like to introduce Lisa McClendon who emerged on the music scene in the early 2000s with her debut album my diary your life reshaping the gospel music landscape with elements of soul and jazz and gospel You quickly became known as the queen of gospel neo soul. Did you know that? Currently Lisa McClendon serves as a community advocate Merging gardening art and mindfulness to empower youth and continues to travel the world Bringing to the stage musical inspiration and feel-good vibes that heal and uplift the soul So welcome Lisa to this conversation My opening question for you I was thinking about you a lot with the clip of Mahalia Jackson because she was so intentional about How she brought songs forward but listened to the music of her time and sort of what was around in her community And all of that and I feel like there's a lot of synthesis both in your music And then you're branching out to include things like gardening and all that But if you could tell us a little bit about what made your approach to gospel and how you entered gospel and brought all of Yourself and all that you were hearing to it. Hey Jacksonville So I'm a transplant so for me it's special because this city embraced me when I wasn't even a native of Duval So I was originally born in Palacka, Florida So when I came here to answer your question My parents who are both ministers my father was a preacher and my mother was a minister as well But they always allowed me to explore music And so I grew up in addition to the gospel music I grew up on Ella Fitzgerald. I grew up on All the old classics movie classics and stuff and so my music was really Influenced by jazz by soul because my mother allowed her thing was just to watch the words She would always say that watch what they're saying if it's not something crazy I'm gonna let you listen and so they would go on church conferences and bring me back Mika Parish and Ella Fitzgerald Louis Armstrong CD I mean my parents did that for me and it was great because it allowed me to just be me And so when I met Mo Henderson who is an amazing producer who actually helped put Jacksonville on the map in gospel In the in the space of Neil soul hip-hop. He's just an amazing human being He got me and he let me be What was in me and I could hear it in my head. I had never really heard it At that time I heard Kurt was the closest thing. I want to say even Mary Mary But it was still it wasn't on the neo soul vibe But I was like hooked on Erica Badu and I was hooked on Jill Scott and in that time that was at PJ Morton Come on now and and actually when I saw PJ Morton He was the closest thing that was in my head and it was almost like he gave me permission to be me in gospel Because I'm like I'm doing gospel, but it doesn't sound like and so that was my space to do it and and it's been embraced So and I'm just I'm just honored that Jacksonville embraced me and allowed me to do what I do the way I do what I do Welcome next we have Bishop Rudolph McKissick junior round of applause Bishop McKissick is a senior pastor of Bethel church located right here in Jacksonville, Florida Bethel is the oldest existing Baptist church in the state of Florida being founded Being founded in 1838 so coming up on 200 years Sorry under Bishop McKissick's leadership the church has experienced exponential growth to over 10,000 active Disciples Bishop McKissick has established himself not only as a prolific Proclaimer but also as an academician teaching as an adjunct professor at the Samuel DeWitt Proctor School the fame Samuel DeWitt Proctor School of Religion at Virginia Union University Bishop McKissick is the author of several books and accomplished musician with several critically acclaimed music projects Welcome Bishop McKissick Good evening My question to you is How do you see as a as a pastor as a preacher and as a musician? How do you see the relationship between sermon and song? That is such a good question. First of all, I'm honored to be a part of this in amazing panel. I think the relationship and the synergy between music and message Is something that that has always been a part of the black church experience in the earlier days of the black church the preacher was a narrative preacher who would simply retell the biblical story and then in a kind of symbolic way Compare what they were going to through to the disenfranchisement of our people and the songs Were songs of triumph They were solical Not just lyrical They they they they they were a part of the pathos of our experience and So when this preacher Would come behind that music it would almost be like accentuating What was just in song? I think the other thing that's important in the synergy of it is It's not music and preaching is not just the retelling of a story, but it is also the shaping of a theology for for for the black church experience The music was about a God who came down and Intervened on our behalf It wasn't like our our European brothers and sisters Whose music it was always about a God who was up and we are sinned to worship him. No for us It was about a God Who bent down and came down not just in Jesus? but who came down and Was on in the words of James Cone on the side of the oppressed and So the preacher would then come behind that and Accentuate that so there there was always this synergy and partnership that was inspirational and solical and not just musical and You know, I'm sure we'll get into more that because I think we've lost some of that in In some of the music of today That's why I like neo soul so much because it's solical and it's not just lyrical and so that it that relationship between preacher as messenger and choir as music has always been important For the message we were conveying to the people About this God who once again in the words of James Cone has his own affirmative action plan Who blesses from the bottom and all the way up so that was always important and thank you I'm so glad y'all in the house tonight. That's not on the documentary Last and certainly not least we have Freddie Rhodes Freddie Rhodes Freddie Rhodes hosts the afternoon power drive on victory a and 1360 and FM 94.7 weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m He also serves as the station's vice president of programming Freddie's interest in radio began while he was in high school The legendary Adrienne Ken Knight was one of the biggest names in black radio during that era gave Freddie his first job in radio on Sunday nights Doing gospel even though Freddie's desire was to do a gospel radio show He accepted an on-air shift doing R&B, but after a while Freddie decided to give that up and return to his first love gospel music and 2014 he was named the rhythm of gospel announcer of the year from the from the national independent gospel music association welcome mr. Freddie My question to you is can you help us understand the importance of the gospel radio? Announce sir and DJ the critical role that you have and continue to serve in well Yes, thank you again for inviting me to come be a part of this fantastic group of panelists First of all, I truly it's been a blessing since 19 right out of the high school Eugene J. Butler high school 1968 You mentioned earlier Ken Knight one of the biggest names in black gospel radio during that time took me on these wings and brought me into gospel radio and One of the things I like to say them I really truly thank God for is that from then up until now I am still Doing radio gospel radio broadcasting which is seem to be going away because so much computer modern technology I've really done away with the quote We used to say DJ but we don't cause so DJ real gospel radio announcers So it seemed to be such a down or so these days in time But by transcendent transcended the tabs and being able to just relate we want that voice behind the microphone playing the music introducing the music setting it up so it could be a blessing to the masses who tune in every day and You know, it's so many different types of music like I was enjoying the clip from James Cleveland You know, it was one of my favorite songs back in the day, you know, peace be still But and I thought about even today the one of his songs he sung another song Say God is and how it transcended the tab was talking earlier about how you get we got another Gospel artist a young guy a mellow Chris Felder third He took James Cleveland song God is and put a spin on and I'm just saying how Gospel music from back then come up to know how it has really got the same message the same song really He's saying using same words, but it's appealing now to a young audience and by me being a radio. I have to really Try to I can grab the older Listeners as well as grab to the yaka place of me. Oh, so I like your music now I could get a you know, tie tributte Dietrich had and you know, Kirk Franklin. I love all those I play I play it all the time. So at my age, he was so you were like that music. Yes. I love it I love it. Thank you. Well, welcome I have a question. I'd like to hear each of you answering your own way the documentary talks about Gospel in cities like Chicago or Detroit But what is gospel here in Jacksonville? Well, I could tackle that right quick, you know, you know what Jacksonville Like we have a lot of cortex even in the document cortex were mentioned Quartet music is really still alive because that's such an audience for it A lot of the I noticed that a lot of young people are grasping the cortex Of gospel music got a lot of young gospel cortex out there these days. So it's You know, it's just a great appeal to even everybody to and like like I said, even though you don't hear that much on radio We're here in Jacksonville. We know that there's an audience for so we program music to reach those people to really enjoy quartet music Now for me It was very different the church that I was born and raised in my father passed it before me Was very erudite Rosamund Johnson who Provided the music for the poem of his brother was the organist at Bethel. We had a tracker pipe organ and so Our our services Were very liturgical I'm talking, you know, hallelujah from the Mount of Olives in Flemard us The seven last words by Dubois stuff everybody here is probably like, what is he talking about precisely? So I did not really hear a lot of gospel music I say that to say that Even in the black church in Jacksonville, there was this diversity of music There was there was this Intellectualism, I don't even know if I want to call it that I shouldn't call it that but there was this high church Let me put it that way this high church musicology that that you had at the Bethel's and the AME's and the like so When I grew up when I heard gospel music It was like oh, they don't really know what real music is You know, I did not really discover The power of gospel music until Bethel started evolving and different people started coming into Bethel under my dad's Leadership and then all of a sudden I started hearing James Cleveland I started hearing some of the Roberta Martins singer songs and and yeah, Claire Ward and what I noticed was The reactions got different You know when they when the choir would finish singing hallelujah from the Mount of Olives everybody would just clap. Oh, that was that was so good When when gospel got introduced in Bethel, then you'd have a deaconess Mary Jones who'd get up and start screaming You know, so there was there was that diversity in in Jacksonville Where if if you were in a certain kind of church you won't in the island and didn't really even know that this of a gospel existed Unless you snuck out and You know and went to these other churches and heard this this other music It was just really so it was foreign to us at Bethel. It ain't now, but it was then so To be Genuinely who I am I have to speak to the younger Part of gospel because I came here in the 2000s so all the stuff that bitch was talking about I don't know about that So the representation that I can speak to for Jacksonville is The young Petty D Okay Camp quest Lisa MacLennan, of course, come on Lisa MacLennan, of course, of course, come on God But even now John Lumpkin who is a gospel jazz So I just thought about it. We haven't even spoken about the gospel jazz. So even though My good friend Ulysses says he's not he doesn't he's a jazz artist We do have representation of jazz in gospel through artists like that Joshua Boland So it is so my answer would be it is kind of what bitch was saying diversity. It's a melting pot it's like it's makes me proud because If I'm correct, I think gospel music is the only genre that has Several genres within one genre It has all these subcultures Cultures in the culture of gospel which I think makes gospel more unique than any other genre of music Because it is so many types and it's welcome So you want some country we got some country gospel and it's my aunt my aunt is a black country gospel artist J. Lee She's been for 20-something years. So it is out there. So whatever kind of genre you want You can find that in gospel music and I think Jacksonville is a great representation of that all the cross sections of these That makes a lot of sense I'm gonna I had I had not thought of this question to listen to the answers that you are giving This is something I see pop up on social media like a lot of people say the quality of popular music has black popular music has deteriorated a little bit because There aren't as many singers in the popular realm who come out of the church like I see that on Like just across social media platforms very often What do you make of the relationship between gospel music as like this reservoir of? Genius and talent and how it goes out and Feeds do you see a relationship between those two things or how do you imagine that? Well, I will say one When you talk about genres of music whether it be R&B hip-hop and all of those None of them happen without gospel Because gospel is at the foundation of all of them. I think technology has done a lot To hide and fool talent Auto-tune and and you know you can go into a studio now and and fly over you know Vocals and you can you can put a whole nother group on the album that wasn't the group that was singing and Is it why y'all made me go first And so a lot of real musicians Now are lacking because it doesn't take much to be a musician now You know it that you don't really have to sing that well somebody to take you in the studio and they'll fix you up You don't even have to read music just transpose and Most of them that transpose don't even know what the word transpose means. I don't know why they put me on this So I think you know we have lost something I really do and you you can tell it in Not all but in much of the music we hear today It has no heart Not all of it and there's there is you're starting to see a return thankfully But it has become more you know gospel music used to be for the inspiration of black people who spent all week long in systemic oppression and The church was the one place Like our ancestors who would leave the slave balcony and go to the sacred space Where they would create their own songs like over my head I hear music in the air Go down Moses. They want to talk about Moses They talked about that slave owner and then the gospel music It was inspiration Now it has become business So that you have you have your business manager and your team and your producer Who forces you now to fit into a style that will sell as opposed to you singing from your soul From your experience So now the artist is making money, but not making inspiration But but you know, I'm thinking maybe it's because they are trying to like you say is money They're just trying to reach a large audience You know by changing the flavor of men about the song like you said the spirit is I could think a whole lot of songs and Artists that you really don't feel The power of gospel in their presentation So I think it's they're trying to reach out and grab, you know, the people who normal isn't rnb So they can make that money You know trying to not mention the Jesus of Lord night They did it back in the day you would hear that but now it's just we're gonna be mainstream to try to reach those other people I Think I'm just gonna bandwagon Bishop a lot tonight cuz I'll be thinking something and he'll be going like right in that direction It's funny because as I was Driving here today. I'm yesterday. I was thinking about a conversation I had with a friend of mine who's a producer and I'd sent him the song that I wanted to work on and He said to me he was like, well, that's not what they're doing now Now mind you I Just wrote this from my soul. I literally I remember I remember Feeling the power of God in that booth while I was right while I was recording those words just talking about Embracing that you're not perfect Because that's something that which is a which is why they do what they do with it like trying to because they want to be perfect And it and it broke and it broke me because I was like There was a time that I would sit in church and hear the bishop speaking and I would get inspiration From the word to write a song based on what I was going through in my own life Now you telling me I can't do this song because it's not in style Because we need to sound like this So now it's like it's taking music to it's actually at the point where it's all about money and And it's that war even even now my son is recording music now He said mark come listen to this and It sounded like another artist what he did was use AI To take his voice He sang the person song and then he used AI to change the sound of his voice to sound like the artist Joji And I said Josh, that's not you. He's like no mom. That's Joe. That's no. He said yes mama That's me, but I sound like Joji and I'm like that's Gary That's terrifying So we are in an age now where why not while technology it can be a great thing I feel like it's watered down the value of stuff. It's taking away the Debt like I went into I went into the studio a couple years ago to record a song I had had been a while Into Bishop's point I walked in so you have to understand if you know the relationship between Maurice Henderson and I my producer he would I was known for stacking there's a term we call stacking artists would go Go in a booth and they would stack vocals I mean we would spend hours just on stacking take them soprano No, but don't take the soprano note and we're gonna sing it 12 times until we get the right one Then we'll pull the old ones and you would do that process So if you have five different notes you have to do every last one of them 12 times you see you see me I'll go in the studio And I'm and he was like all right. We good. I said wait wait wait. I got a stack don't know I'm looking through the boot. I got a stack right. He's like, oh, no. I'm just copying pasted copy and paste What? He said hold on one second in two minutes This dude took my one voice and copied and pasted and made it sound like so many of me And I felt I felt like I didn't I feel like I didn't work you didn't sign up for that I was like, I'm robbing the people but I mean it's cool, but it just to me I like the old way it's something about my raw vocals singing every song and it's not being perfect I like the old way and I just think that the new way has a place But sometimes everything new ain't right, you know everything new ain't good. So You know the perfect Lisa's the perfect example When I hear some music all I hear is a production When I hear Lisa's music I hear an experience And I think that's what's missing in a lot of gospel music today that we have lost the authenticity of The experience birthing the song because that's what gospel music used to be and that's what Sticks to us about so many of the gospel songs That we love and you mentioned quartets are coming back here in Jacksonville because you know, I remember I grew up on Cortez my grandfather was in the gospel quartet. That's not six to you It gets you through And so I'm thinking about How though, you know, I grew up in the 80s 90s kid and all the R&B singers I like first started out in Cortez They knew how to sing to get a gospel choir is like and learning how to harmonize and listen in order to be able to harmonize and so, you know, I Do get concerned sometimes that you know, there are too many shortcuts there being made available To your point, but since since we went to that side, I want to bring it back to a little bit. What? Makes you hopeful and excited About where gospel music is today are there artists that you are Finding that do have that experience that lived experience in their music Or is it your own music that in the prospect of saying what you need to say about your own life that makes you excited or Are there glimmers of things that in the genre that you want to point our direction to? And I'm not saying this just because they're performing and I meet them Clark Meacham's writing is a throwback To to great choir music what makes me hopeful is The Meacham Clarks the Sean Tillery's of the word. There is there is a return To to choir music that makes me hopeful You know that makes me very hopeful For the future of gospel music there there Is neo soul to me is just passion That makes you hopeful. You know, I'm hearing less and less of Just music that I can listen to and tell it was produced to make money and I'm hearing more and more Music that is being produced of experience and the return of choir music So for me, that's what makes me hopeful That gospel music is is not being put out to Jurassic Park You know, that's a great comeback and Bishop mentioned about the choir that bring about the choir we got You know just released we got river That there's so many new vegetable Hannah who's one of the hottest gospel artists in the country bring the choir sound back And of course, you know, you got your old standards anyway, but there is a there's a trend to bring it back You know, the more music I played the radio station Chicago Mad Square just still after all these years, you know They are still putting out brand new music. So, you know, I go back to when I first started, you know In radio, I have to play a variety of music. So because I know the choirs I know your your tight ribbons your teacher caddins Your Mary Mary and your Brie Boba knows I love that music. I even get down with some of that Maverick City music, you know Which is um, which is really appealing to everybody. So I'll play all that too, you know So then I may play Some Maverick City music go back to play the mighty clouds of joy somewhere down in the in my rotation of music to reach That genre of people who really though really enjoy that genre of music. I Would like to see quartet music make a comeback I mean my dad played in a quartet growing up And I think it's just the old to my father who passed away left us last year And I think that resonates with me because I think it just brings me closer to him, but I just remember Willie Neil Johnson gospel in the gospel key notes of soul stirs the Johnson. Come on The Williams brothers. Um, just resounding through my house on the eight track. Come on. Y'all don't know nothing about that I don't know nobody track. The big fat cassette. Come on. I I would love to see that Emerge again And I would I would love to see more jazz just that soft laid back and I was probably love to hear more hymns Finding a unique way a unique way to bring hymns back, you know, I would I think that'll be I would love to see that I hear your answer like a balance between and most of you it's like the balance between What we carry forward from the past but leaving room for new expressions or new interpretations You know of this this little bridge that's brought us over