 What's up everybody, I'm the Mangus, you are awesome and this is part two of my discussion with Sockap and Jakka. This time we're talking about the morality and legality of the Parazombie selling the skins that Epic created for Paragon. Let's move on to something that's also controversial is skins. Should these, you know, made-a-buff strange matter, should they be able to profit from the skins that Epic created for Paragon, should they be able to sell those skins for real money? Personally, I believe that they should because I think that they've done a lot of work so far. They need to be able to make money off of this project in order to sustain these games. They need to make money off something and those skins are a very easy way to do that. I know Jakka in particular has a very different opinion on that. Jakka, what do you think, man? Yeah, so I'm a firm believer in they can still have the skins in the game. I don't think they should be able to sell for coins or currency that we have to pay for. I think they can put them behind in-game currency, kind of like how League of Legends has the orange essence and blue essence system. I think what they could do is either get someone that knows how to recolor skins or something for the time being and just get some recolors going. I've seen you do it on your Four Dominions before. You made a skin really fast with not even having good experience. Do that, get some out there, or you can have a battle pass system. You charge people for a battle pass and you get to level five, you get one of those skins. You get to level ten, you get another one of those skins, but the battle pass costs money. So that way you have a steady income, the way that the game can still make money for server costs. And I think that's like a fine thing. And I think people won't have a big deal about buying a battle pass or other means like that. But I think just taking someone else's work and outright selling their skins, I'm going to go to another notch route. I'm sorry like people might not like it, but I 100% agree with him. But I think there's other ways around it where you can still technically sell that skin, but put it behind a battle pass system. And then people won't have like, oh, you're stealing from them, like that type of deal, you know. Yeah, he was pretty upset about that for sure. Not sure. Just got to remember, the people that originally created those skins, they're not getting commissioned for it now, you know, they're somewhere off on a different project or something. They're not getting like valued anymore. I don't really even know the legality to it. I think that you have to kind of really be, I mean, honestly, I wouldn't do it either. I would not sell those skins for money because I don't know if you could get yourself into trouble doing that. Since that's not technically something that you like made. I don't know. Honestly, what I would do is I would just put all the skins in there and let people just have them all for free and then try to figure out another route as to how to support the cost for servers and all that stuff. Yeah. Honestly, at least at first, you could charge a little bit to get into the game or you could maybe talk about doing a monthly subscription that was cheap. I don't know what you could kind of get away with. The thing is that most of the people that are going to come to the game at first are going to be very supportive because it's going to be the Paragon community and it's like seeing god damn Jesus come back to life, you know what I mean? So it's like, holy shit, we want to get behind this shit. I think they could do a lot of crowdfunding. They could put up a donation link if people want to donate straight out. I think it's fine. People need to calm their tits when it comes. Who cares if a company is taking their money if they're actually providing content? Right. You know? There's not a fucking store with no like, there's actual content for some of these games. They're actually investing their time in coding and making these assets that we know, you know, they should get compensation from it from us a little bit. So like, I like the idea of like a battle pass system, locking something behind a paywall is not a bad thing. Also if you can make some of the skins available in the game behind earning an in-game currency is not a bad idea at all. That's the way I think they should do it is make everything available via in-game currency, but give you the option to buy those skins if you want to, because that would give people the option to support these games monetarily if they wish to run. The other thing is, I mean, Epic did refund the money to anybody who wanted it. So if if that's the issue, like if you're just pissed off because you paid for the skin once, you don't want to have to pay for it again. I don't think I don't think after talking to you guys, like I thought that was the issue at first. After talking to you guys about this, I don't think that's the issue anymore. You guys have changed my mind a little bit. But yeah, I just honestly, I just worry about the like I said, the legality of it. I don't know if it's I don't know if they could get into trouble for using any of those assets and then charging money for them since they're free assets. I don't know what the deal is. You also don't want to piss off the hand that fed you. Epic gave these guys all these assets. Yeah, I don't know if I'm sure they're really smart and they read the epic terms of service terms of service agreement. If you pissed them off in any way, they can just shut your game down. You can never make a game again at any time they want. Right. And you can be blacklisted from making another game and unreal. So you don't really want to piss off Epic for one thing. Because I know it's kind of like, you know, after talking with people in core that are like higher up in the or like part of the dev team, right? They talk about how like, eventually they wanted to remove all of the Paragon models and replace them with their own models and they weren't going to name them the same. They were literally going to eventually replace all of the assets into their own assets. So and it was for like legality purposes or eventually if they wanted to make, you know, a certain amount of money, I don't exactly know. Yeah, like for instance, here's a big example, right? Say you want the name of your game. Like if predecessor made a shirt and they have a picture of Iggy on that shirt and they sold it, technically that's illegal because they don't own Iggy. Right. Yeah, that's true. So you can't market your game with their assets on it and for profit. That's the other problem legality wise. I never thought of that. That's a great point. The merchant, the merchandise and stuff that games do make money from. You got to be very careful on what you put on there and selling it because their lawyers will pay we're going to need a 75% of that. Yeah, because that's a man. Like I said, I personally, I don't give a shit if they sell those skins. Like I'd happily give them some money, you know, if they need any, you know, but that's the only reason why I think that they probably shouldn't go that route is because it's questionable with. OK, so it looks like Smokey is saying the only thing you can't do is merchandising. The rest is free game. So like what I was saying about like shirts or mugs, whatever hoodies you can't do. Yeah, but I still think it's not that hard for someone to go in there and recolor and design like a funky looking skin or whatever they want, you know, like that should be fresh to me. There's a lot you could do with that, too. Like you could make like a rainbow shinby or some shit like that, like it would. That shit would sell that hard. Yeah, it would sell and it would be. I think it would be morally kosher. I don't think I haven't seen anybody other than Omeda take that step to completely make a cosmetic change with the skins, though, because they I mean, they made that several with the size, the size instead of the hammer, which is really fucking cool. Definitely. Definitely, they should be able to sell that for money. I always thought that a good idea for any of these games would be to, you know how like league, like they sell like chromas, right? So you have like you have like the tier two, three, four skins, and then you have like recolors of them and you can buy the different chromas, the different recolors. I always thought it would be cool to take that concept to like the next step with MOBAs and basically allow you to purchase the ability to make your own color scheme on a hero. Like a color wheel, right? So have like certain parts of the hero, you know, maybe have like three colors, right? So like Meridox armor and you just have a color slider and you can just change the color and then like, you know, his whatever the edges of it, I don't know. But then also be able to add your own like kind of like custom emblem that you could do just like in, you know, like like a sprite emblem or whatever or like little pixel emblem so you could just have like a little patch. I mean, I know that people are just going to make like a bunch of dicks and shit like that. And it's going to be like on that character, but fuck it. You know, I mean, it would be cool to have something like that where you could have like your own tiny little emblem and you could have a designated spot on most characters and, you know, it could go there. And so they would pay like, you know, five bucks to have that capability with Meridoc if they wanted to do it with Meridoc, you know. Another thing that I found really cool and a good we brainstorm these ideas a lot. You can bring the community together and the streamers together with the game as well and profit off the streamers and say, for instance, let's do sock cap as an example, right? He's a streamer. If someone wants to support that streamer, they buy his like they sit down with sock cap and like, this is the skin I want in the game. This is my skin. So when they buy that skin in game, a little bit of the cut goes to sock cap and then a little bit of the cut goes to the game itself. And that way it's like an interaction that helps the streamers grow and it helps the game grow at the same time. So, you know, like when do Windows purple, right? You make a dope ass like purple, like, you know, they have the purple several already. Yeah, like you put like his his logo on something on like his cape or something, you know, like it's sick, you know, it's easy streamer, streamer interaction and it helps every community grow. Yeah, that's a good idea. Actually, I like that. It's like it's like four nights. Creator code streamers. Yeah, it's like Fortnite creator code, but integrated in skins and you're like, you're helping out your like guy, you know, it's it's pretty cool. Yeah, it helps out the game and the person at the same time. I like that a lot. I don't think it's a bad idea. And Greg said Dota did individual parts for skins that you could mix and match for the first few years. Yeah, weapons skins would be really cool. Like, right? Like if you could change that to like an axe or a scythe or a hammer or something, baseball, bad. I know everybody wanted to baseball. Yeah, yeah, of course. The homerun, homerun, Severog. Yeah, I don't know why they never made that skin. It literally was like, like so perfect. They just give them baseball a bad and put them in some tattered baseball uniform, you know. And then if if one of these projects ever do get to the point where there's eSports, you have like legal legends. Sometimes I think they have like STK skins or whatever. SKT, you know, you have the team skin, you know, and you can apply that as well. I think they have a lot of options they can go with skins and it's fairly simple to do once they get a designer in there making these things. I think some some really interesting stuff that I know this is not Paragon related. I've been talking to Project Stamina a lot, the guys that are kind of remaking sort of remaking gigantic. They were talking about the competitive scene a bit and they were saying that they they want that to happen naturally. I think that's the best way to go. They don't want to they're not going to promote it themselves. They just want to make a game that is really good and then hope that people want to want to make it competitive and then assist if that happens, which is probably the best route. That's the other thing. I think a lot of these projects, speaking of the skins and selling and creating an economy and sustaining the game, Project Stamina is definitely ahead of everybody else in that. They definitely they have a business plan. They have a Patreon right now that you can donate to. And I think that's really good. It's put them in a better position than a lot of these companies. A lot of these companies seem to be so focused on making the game for the fans that they lost focus, that they are a company and that they need to make money to sustain the game. They can't live on. This isn't a Disney movie. They can't fucking just live on sunshine and happiness. They got to these games that eventually need to make money somehow and they all need to like set down and come up with a business plan for the future and for right now. Like you said, Socap, a lot of people are or maybe Jack has said it. I'm not sure which one of you said it, but as somebody was saying that crowdfunding needs to happen for these games now. Like I said, they need money and I wouldn't be opposed for them to actually even if they want to pull us as the community and let us tell you if you think us donating to you is a good idea or not. Don't let one person out of the loudmouth tell you yes or no. Let the community decide because I'm sure I've asked probably at least 50 or more people and they said, I don't give a fuck. If they had a donating button, I would fucking donate right now to help this project go. Yeah, don't be scared to ask for money. If the overall poll is fine. Yeah, I mean, I think honestly, it would be pretty overwhelming in terms of like supportive, you know, of that. There's already a there's already enough shit out there that says, Hey, these guys are actually working on the game. Yeah, it's not no play a Gora fucking scam, you know, there's already there's already enough if they are a scam, Jack is going to know everybody else though. I'll find you. I'll find your address and scare you and make you to leave your discord in your game. Just I'm afraid to take a shit anymore because I think Jack is probably watching me somehow. How many times did that guy shut his discord down? Dude, he got so scared when I set up a picture of the front door, dude. Yes, it's a little it's a little psycho. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Like Google image is telling you live here 10 minutes later, that discord was gone, but Jesus Christ, Jack, I knew it was bad when I got into the stream when he was streaming. And there was like a few people in there that were kind of under like different accounts, but I knew like who they were, you know, and there are people that knew how to use like unreal. And they're like, this guy has no idea what he's doing. And then we just kept kind of like poking fun at them. And he just like blew up and like cussed us all out. And I was like, OK, like, this is this is questionable. You know, a man still fucking he swindled some people out of their money, you know, the whole time money and run. Yeah. I feel like he had a plan and he's stuck to it, man. Oh, so I even told a kid, he's like, I'm going to donate right now. I was like, dude, don't do it. Like you've seen nothing from this kid. Don't like I even messaged him like I saw him. Hey, man, what's your PayPal link? I'll pay you money now. I was like, this guy's some pretty shit. Like, don't do it. Yeah, I wasn't going to pay them any attention whatsoever. I wasn't going to do anything about them because I was I thought it was probably a scam. And then like my subs were like, hey, this guy's making this great game and I gave him money to do it. And I'm like, oh, hell, no. I don't know if I'm giving this dick money. I need to do something now. Yeah, I remember you you released that like that like a video while you were out at work or whatever from was it like do you film it from your phone or something? Or yeah, yeah, opposed with a chainsaw because I'm cool. Hell yeah, dude. I'm a man. Look at my chainsaw. I did use that chainsaw, though, but it listens to me. I'm Alpha's predecessor fault. Like if any of you guys watch this or listen, like pull your community, man. Like if you guys want to have a donate button to help you get, especially if it gives you like that little extra like oomph to like get things going, you know, to like hire that extra person on your team to like get an artist or designer to like help and pay for art or something like that. Like just do it, man. Like there's people out there that want to like help the community grow. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. 100% agreed. Looking at you. I was like, we already seen you guys. Yeah, we already see you guys like produce work. Like we know and if it fails, who cares, you know, like. The shit's actually getting worked on. At least we know that. Yeah. But when I was offered that, when I was offered the refund from Epic, I didn't take it. I was like, I got so much enjoyment out of this game that I think they deserve the money that I have given them. So I didn't take that refund. I think it's the same way with these games. They deserve, I would love to be able to give them more money because they deserve it. They they're working on these games tires tirelessly for the community for a community that is so hung up on this game and we don't want to give it up. And and they're not going to come up with my extra income. It's that, you know what I mean? Mm hmm. Definitely. Yeah. I'll go out and start making phone calls, smoking, try to get some some funding, you know, like the there's a PBS or whatever, how they do a little like once a month, they have those like bunch of people calling for donations and shit. I'll be that guy. I mean, I've been seeing RGA, so you know, on those betting websites, is that how you guys get your funding over there? Like I see him making some big bets over there on teams, man. Oh, shit. Oh, he just did the the eyes. I really want to be honest. I really like the idea of a PBS fundraiser where we got like the thermometer that's filling up. Yeah, exactly. You just have like the community members like answering phones like, hello, how's it going? Start calling for your donation today. You will help the pair going from a bunch of dickheads in the background. I mean, you just have that. I don't know how that would work. You know, you just call people like in the general public and be like, hey, let's call my discord, dude. We're trying to raise money for for predecessors and they'll be like, what is that? And you'll be like, it's a nonprofit for underprivileged children that are also starving and they're missing a leg in the country of a gore. They won't know the difference. Well, that's a scam. Wait to have to shut this down. Oh, shit. Oh, yeah. So I think it's going to probably conclude our conversation. We're getting a little loose with it right now. So I'll go ahead and close out the video. I'm still going to hang out with suck up on the Twitch here. But thank you guys for coming out. Thank you, suck up. Thank you, Jack. I really appreciate you guys coming in recording this with me. You definitely had some great points. Changed my mind a little bit on the on the skin thing, too. So good on you for that. And that's going to be it. This is a man who's starting off with you guys. Have a good one. Man goes later. There we go. All right, sweet. Don't we tell you guys about the scam I ran in Afghanistan? The scam I ran in Afghanistan? No, but this this sounds a little bit more tangible than what we were just talking about when I heard about this. So fucked up. This is so fucked up. But all right. So we've got this care package, right? You know, people send care packages all the time. And it was like this chick's name. And buddy's like, she sounds hot. It's like it's just her name. So so we looked the name up on Facebook. We find like, you know, several women with that name and one of them is really hot. He's like, wonder if that's her. I was like, it doesn't matter. Just send her a message saying thanks for the care package, even if she didn't send it. She'll feel so bad for not sending a care package to the truth that she'll talk to you and it worked. Oh no. So then we're like, let's go through all these care packages and find hot girl names. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. We don't need to do that. We just go on Facebook, find hot girls, and send them messages thanking them for the care package. We had a folder full of nudes from doing that. Oh man. Oh, I'm so fucked up. So fucked up. That's not fucked up. That's just genius. Yay, Veteran's Day. That's my Veteran's Day story. Hey, veterans, we used to do it in a good light, man. Yeah, by the way, happy Veteran's Day, Mongoose. Thank you. Happy Veteran's Day, man. Yeah, you're a dick for not saying it earlier. Hey, it's not midnight yet. Yeah, it's still technically, it's always 8 o'clock by time, dude, so it's still Veteran's Day.