 Okay. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so in the following manner by emailing Steve McCarthy at McCarthy s at Amherst and a dot gov. No in person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. In the event that we are unable to do so for reasons of economic hardship and despite best efforts, we will post on the town website and audio or video recording transcript or other comprehensive record of proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting. And with that done, we'll call the meeting to order at 501pm. A roll call of attendance done. Dylan. Here. Gaston. Here. And I am here so we are for here and tally is absent today. Okay, great. So, Steve has told me that both of the applications that we had the short term and the transfer have been withdrawn. So we only have discussion items today. And I'd like to get started with public public comment. Is there anyone here for general public comment that is not related to a discussion item, or anything else. So raise your hand. And if not, then don't raise your hand. And I see nothing. So we'll move on from public comment to discussion items fees and general bylaws. And I'd like to welcome many Joe Hanneke. Thank you so much Councilor Hanneke for joining our meeting. And everyone should have gotten the memo that many sent to the town council about the fees which are embedded into the bylaws, which Councilor Hanneke has proposed a motion to move them out of the bylaws and give that jurisdiction or power back to us so that we can decide them and it would make it easier to change the fees. Councilor Hanneke, would you like to discuss this or introduce it some more. Sure, I can introduce it. Thank you for inviting me first of all and thank you for considering this. Slotter will recognize this from years ago when he mentioned this to me in an email. And I finally went through all of the bylaws and found to. And so this is sort of the result of, of Doug's initial mentioning to me. Sorry, it took so long, but I've proposed this to the council. So the two, there were only two that were remaining the in holders common victors and lunch cards which you guys as board of licensed commissioners actually issue the licenses for, and then this soliciting bylaw, which the police department actually issues the license for the certificate of registration I think it's called in the bylaw. And so, you know, I am proposing that we delete the fees within the bylaws themselves and give that authority to you as the license and GOL yesterday talked about it and they recommended and and agree with that recommendation to recommend the council do that for in holders common victors and lunch cards. They did have a question about the soliciting because the police department is the one that issues that. And so I actually talked, I emailed chief livingstone yesterday and asked him, does he want the authority to do the fees or is he okay with you guys having that authority. And he actually said he's fine with you guys having it even though he's the one that issues those licenses. And so you know he was okay I can read his email to you if you would like but basically he said, he's fine with you guys doing it. But it's really what we or you want as the board if you're not if you don't want that authority for soliciting because you don't issue those those licenses. We can as council move that and change that but but we're going to probably listen to you. And so that that's the basis of it. The other thing is we don't want to do this change until you're ready to declare what those fees will be. And so the other thing I'd like to know from you is if you support these changes, when you might be ready to be able to set those fees so that the council doesn't eliminate the fees within the bylaw before the board is ready to set those fees. Okay. Thank you. Um, so what is the soliciting license for is that the vendors on this sidewalk or it's for door knocking basis or the door sales. Okay, okay. Okay. Thanks. Thank you very much. Is there any any questions for Councilor Heneke about this or discussion. I mean I think we, you know, Doug brought this up a long time ago, and and we've all been looking forward to doing this so that there are, I know that we have the fees. We just have a standard like the old fees are still there. I mean do we want to discuss changing the fees, and I know we've been talking guest on has been working on that a bit. If we want to, so I don't know if we want to just keep the regular fees and just move them over. Doug, did you have an idea. I think the short term because we're still going through the process of reviewing the total fee structure. In the short term, we just adopt the fees as they currently are. You know, I don't know that we're going to get a ton of either of those things and so we get adopted as is. From a timing standpoint, you know, we probably have to wait until after the council takes action but at our next meeting right after that. That action just set the fee and then, and then that's just part of that review that I think we're going through which is going to take us a little bit longer to get through because I think those are probably not what we may still not change them after we do that review. Because I think there's some others that were probably more interested in looking at more deeply and so that would be my suggestion. Okay, so just adopt them as they are once then. Okay. That sounds fine to me I guess I don't want to waste the chance to have something like a real deadline to actually do the review. And so I would accept the motivation to actually like schedule a date and in September to look at the license fees with the full report that I have, you know, sought to do but haven't done yet. So I think we can fold this in into that. Yeah, Doug. I could, I, you know, I think it's an excellent idea. I guess I'm I think that that helps us and I think that's also timing wise, as we think about renewal season. You know, if we make it if we, if we make it a part of our motion when we sort of set that these fees initially to then as a part of that, sort of give ourselves that deadline of, you know, September 30. And, you know, in beginning of October when, when Steve is sending out, you know, notification to people it's like hey it's time to renew. If we've got new fees in place and they'll see those and timing wise I think it works for us so I think as part of the motion when we adopt these, these fees, perhaps as is that we can also set a deadline for ourselves at the same time. So I think that what you had in mind Eston is that we adopt them as is and then you have a deadline and we change it. No, I mean I, what I wanted to do is see if we can get, you know, little deadline pressure here and I think Doug framed it works works well. I will, you know, calendar for our first meeting in September to to prepare to to give a little report and to do so in time to get it on the to get it submitted ahead of time to to the board. Okay, super. Thank you. So we don't need to vote on the fees right now is that correct we just wait until town council has changed the bylaw, and then we adopt the fee at the next meeting. Is that correct. I would I would mention I did include a agenda item today changes to license fees in holders common victor's lunch carts and soliciting. So if the board does feel so inclined. I would suggest that we adopt those new fees today I believe it's properly noticed. I would suggest trying to adopt to whatever the fees are before the council makes their change perhaps with a NSC a counselor Hanna key as her hands up and she's probably much better versed in the ways of of a maneuvering in these ways and I would but I would suggest trying to adopt it before the change happens there wouldn't be some time in between where there is no fee. Okay, so there's no gap. Yeah, if I may. Yeah, the whenever a change in a bylaw happens per our charter there is 14 days till that change takes effect. So no matter when we vote there will be 14 days before it's actually effective, but the way the council schedule is currently set up. The next meeting after the bylaw change will, I believe have its first review on August 15, but it needs to readings before it can be voted and the next meeting after the 15th right now is scheduled for September 12. So that would be the earliest that the council can vote the in holders change so the earliest the council that an effective that the effective date for the change to give you the authority would be September 26 on the in holders, because GOL was waiting for that answer from the chief that one probably won't go to the first reading of the council until the first September meeting which is October. Sorry, September 12, the second can be the 19th. And in that case that would just take effect one week later than the other one. And so, so the end of September is sort of the earliest either of these will take effect. I don't think it affects any of what you guys have just been discussing, but I thought I'd let you know that's, that's the case. Okay, great, thank you. So do we want to vote just wait to vote on that or what do you think do it anyway. Anyone have a preference. We can both contingent upon, you know, a change by the council or just wait until the council does their thing and then, you know, I think the key thing is, is, even if we don't think about today, it's still vote at our next meeting that's still probably before the council actually takes a vote so you know the only circumstance where we're at any risk is is if the council were to vote and then for some reason we don't end up having a meeting in that 14 day window but it's not too long. Right. So Dylan or guest on do you have a preference. Steve is it your preference that we just vote on it and I certainly don't have a preference I think that suggestion of making the vote contingent on the town council making a change would be suggested just because as of now the statutory statutory authority does still technically lie with the council so I think that would be a good idea whatever the vote happens but I don't really have any preference. I think we can certainly continue that agenda item the next time. Okay, Dylan. I mean, at this point, we're talking about enough study to just just make a motion that we adopt fees to what the council are in effect in the event of a bylaw change we just make a motion like that and then just get it over with. Yeah, we can do that. I mean why not. We'll be ahead of the game. I think it's usually better on the wording on it do you want to go for it I'll make the second. Okay, I can do that. I think we should move that the border life school Smithers adopt these for in holders come victors and lunch carts of $50 for in holders $50 for common victors, and $100 for lunch carts, and a fee for $10 for soliciting registration, effective. I think the council change the bylaws related to those. Thank you so much for the motion Doug is there a second. Thank you Dylan is there any further discussion hearing none will take a vote Doug. Hi, Dylan. Hi, Gaston. I vote I that is four to zero with one absent and the motion is approved and we're covered for whatever happens in the future. Plus we have a September 30th date for adopting new is that it's adopting right Gaston the new license fees before our first meeting in September I think is, is it September 1 itself. And so I'm going to schedule to be ready for for that and so that'll give us one more meeting to to discuss but the pressure is giving good notice for renewals. Okay, that's the, the, that's what matters. Okay, great. Thank you so much. So, so, all right, wonderful. Well we're done with discussion items a and B. Now, do we want to switch things around and talk about rental registration, while counselor Hanneke is here, and all that, because that has been there have been lots of conversations and then we've emailed back and forth a little bit. And I know that you're having there was just a public hearing registration. So what is, could we just ask where you are with that. Sure. But no I didn't see it on there. Maybe I'll stay for that. But, but yeah, so about, was it a week ago. A couple weeks ago we held a public forum a community forum. Just to get some feedbacks there is an engage Amherst website that has a survey on it that has had over 200 responses that have some open ended questions about how neighborhoods are and what the problems are and all where CRC is right in sort of the middle of the process. We've talked about requirements to obtain a permit, and some of the more basic things about what the permit will be is there going to be three separate permits for different types of rental uses or is it just going to be one permit for all the uses and what would we do then. We haven't reviewed much language at all. Other than some of those basic stuff there is some language draft out there for the requirements for to obtain a permit which mostly is inspectional requirements. And, and then some other requirements, the energy climate and action energy. The Energy and Climate Action Commission and has reckoned asked us to include some energy efficiency requirements in the permitting bylaw so there's some things about that there's some things about parking. But where CRC is starting to go is to, and right now the draft gives the authority to you guys to put all the regulations together I will say that right now so I would love to have your feedback on that. But, but at the same time, there are some drafts and discussion about what those regulations might have, based on what the building commissioner Rob Mora has indicated to us and the building inspector. John Thompson has indicated they are looking at potentially asking us to have a less specific bylaw and more specific regulations because the regulations can be changed easier. Which means as we talk about stuff we're actually dumping stuff into that same draft document for bylaws into hey these are things that can go into regulations. And these are some of the thoughts so if you're willing to take on the regulation work at some point will probably have a lot of recommendations for you. So on that ECAC, I think we'll take up the bulk of the regulations pertaining to any energy efficiency requirements. They are looking for their investigating that a lot and I suspect that they will be drafting stuff to send to whoever is tasked with adopting the regulations. So that's sort of where we are next week, the discussion will be around penalties and incentives for violating the bylaw and what would constitute a violation so sort of the enforcement side. What is a violation what the penalties can and should be. We haven't had that discussion yet but that's where we're going to start. And you know so that's sort of the status of everything the goal is still to have something to the council by December. You know, I haven't sent you a new draft of anything because the language at this point even on inspections is so hasn't even been discussed yet really. There isn't sort of while there's a draft out there it's not something that is has it hasn't even been discussed by the inspectors yet to. But, but I think the biggest thing right now for you to potentially discuss beyond some of that stuff is, are you okay with having the regulatory authority. Yeah, that's a huge one. Um, you know, but but also anything related to enforcement mechanisms penalties, violations, things like that would certainly be helpful to CRC and any other recommendations you have about licensing in general since you guys have handled many more licenses than the council ever does. And I'll say to answer any questions you have. All right, super. Thank you so much. Gaston. Thank you so much for presenting that. I think that what I identified as a big issue talking to you and then the commission, you know just spotted it right away is our you know are we are we positioned to serve in a judicatory role. I think maybe it would be helpful if you can give us a sense of the kind of how you see those disputes, bubbling up to us if that's the way things go. So that we could think about how you know whether what it would take to do that well, if that's going to happen. I know that there was this very specific doubt that we had, which was does suspension of license. I mean we understand how to suspend restaurants alcohol license they can serve food but not alcohol. I think that we were we were conceptually confused about suspending a rental license and what that means for the tenants in particular. Yeah, that. Yes, that was one big question that we had. And I can't really answer that what what Rob more I would say is they don't like using the suspension. We actually did mention that a little bit in our last meeting when talking a little bit into why aren't suspensions used and is that a good thing versus something and he indicated that they don't like using suspensions because they can't really suspend something immediately at least in the current bylaw the suspension takes place at the end of the permitting year and goes into effect at the next permitting year. And so that's not their goal is to get to address the health and safety violations violations immediately and a suspension doesn't do that. And so he was actually in that concept when we were talking about health and safety violations and how we can remedy them as quick as possible without harm to the people living in the building. Right now the unit right now in terms of them getting kicked out. He was saying suspensions are not the method they choose to use. We haven't talked about who should be deciding suspensions yet. And so any feedback you have on whether you would want to or not is definitely good that I can take to the next meeting it sounds like you may be concerned about that and be more comfortable with the building commissioner doing that. But you know, what does the suspension mean, it just means they can't rent it for the time of the suspension but if it depends on how it's written as it's written now in the current bylaw that means they lose the summer. Not necessarily anything that would be occupied anyway because of how it's written. Judicatory, we haven't even discussed that yet so I can't address that at all. Thanks, Doug. Oh, you were muted. Just to talk about that suspension question. Really that's a non renewals on the way I'm thinking about it because I think the thing you get into a little bit I mean is whether the violation is by tenant or landlord. It's landlord then revocation of the renewal or non renewals I think what we probably do and then you hold it for a whole year where you can't renew it you can't rent. That's pretty significant we I think there's a lot of legal questions that they play into that. As far as the, if it's tenant driven, you know like they're covering up fire alarms, you know smoke detectors that kind of thing as opposed to the tenant, the landlord. Yes, that's different. And I think that gets that gets hard. You know to sort of invoke a suspension I mean you start to get into eviction questions and there's a whole lot of state law protecting tenants and landlord both around eviction so that's a, and that's a lengthy process as well that takes quite a long time. I do think you know just around the question of, of things that sort of create urgency to act which would be like fines, you tend to create a little more urgency to act and so I think that's probably sort of what I'm hearing from what you're reporting from from Rob more a little bit is that that seems to probably be a direction that's more likely to get compliance and a shorter time period and again. It is, you know, we do, you know, we certainly have hearings and do, as you call it type of things that would be parallel to some of the stuff that work we already do and have done. I think there's a question of volume, if we think there's a lot of these kind of violations, you know questions about whether it's, you know, a proactive enforcement or a reactive enforcement is another one which increases or sort of sets the level of things you have to sort of deal with those are questions, you know, I think we have if we're going to be more active in, in, in, in looking for violation and taking action on those by other inspection. Because it, you know, whatever it is that we, you know, use that, and that's a, that's a different frame than if we're just based on reporting of potential issues or, you know, ancillary incidents, you know, like, please come to a location that happens to be rental and notice something then, or a neighbor notices something and says something that you know that's a very different level of work for us as, you know, as far as having hearings and taking action that sort of thing but I mean, I think personally, you know, I think we have some mechanisms and structures in place to sort of deal with that. And we've done a little bit of that. I think the other question to ask ourselves around that is none of us are elected. And does that help or hurt the conversation relative to that we have some, some, you know, it isn't we are approved by the council as far as our, our seats on the, on the commission but, but that's also I think the conversation that should be had in the process of thinking through this. I wonder if there's some kinds of inspection issues that are less technical and where we would have a comparative advantage over Rob Mora to, you know, I don't know if maybe is it issues relating to neighbors that are we better suited to hear those kinds of issues. I don't know. I'm raising the questions because I'm really not sure. I don't know. So right now, let me just, and this may seem really simple. So right now that the town council will approve the bylaw, the board of licensed commissioners and you're thinking we'll do the regulations. And then if there's a violation, somehow in with the building inspector, we will have the hearing at the, that we would do a violation of a liquor license hearing is that what the kind of like the pattern that everyone's thinking or kind of the map. Right. And so, we're just trying to figure out. Yeah, sorry Dylan, go ahead. I was going to say, if the building inspector we have to do that way that they can do the enforcement make the determinations. Somebody wants to appeal that we just want to have it that that perhaps an appeal comes to us rather than us dealing with it directly. Can we do something like that and if we could what we want to Yeah, I think along the same lines the thing I'm thinking about is, you know, they're another approach to that. I mean that's one way to do it is just do it as as appeal board. I think another way to approach that is there may be and this is part of building regulation there may be certain things that are straightforward enough that we could essentially through to regulation engine, you know, empower the inspector to do those determinations. And then obviously have an appeal process but then there may be others, other, you know, another class or classes of violation that would be more, maybe more egregious or more about conflict between neighbors or something and we have to think through that a little bit but that might merit the sort of having us do a hearing as opposed to a single. You know, town staff person, as opposed to the rest of the town on board. So I think there's, there's that so there may be some more clear cut, direct violations that might be able to be handled from, you know, town staff can can can impose those and then there may be others that that are of a nature that you require sort of hearing by us. It's sort of like the split between in the public way with the short term and the long term with the town council has to prove some but the town manager can not exactly but sort of a similar idea. Right, right. So you have a sort of, you know, tiered system of right of work there but obviously if we if we empower, say, the building inspector impose finds x, y and z, you know, having an appeal process to bring it before us, you know, would be. You know, something we want to have been there as well because then that way. You know, some people might be like, you're absolutely right, I'll pay the fine I'll move on. And there are others that may be like, No, I'm not going to do that I'm going to fight that I want to talk to you know I want to have a public hearing and have the way in, you know, we might. We'll see. Yeah, I can get funky to but yeah. I don't think we're very credible and legitimate appellate body to adjudicate between the town and the private business. I think we're not, we're not well set up to impartially hold the town to standards. We're, we're, I think, much better positions to hold the told businesses to standards, but an appeal would mean that the business is disagreeing with the town, and I just have trouble thinking how we could provide a legitimate review. Yeah. How is it done now. I believe currently there are the building commissioner is authorized to, to do a number of fines and there is on the books or rental appeals board which I think by statute is the chairs of the planning board zoning board of appeals. And I think it still says select board for the third one. I don't believe that bodies ever met. But it does exist. Okay. So that's Mandy, have you talked about that at all with the rental appeals board, has that come up. As a structure as a potential structure it has recently it came up I think before this was dealt with in CRC I think it came up sort of in conversations with the sponsors before it ended up in CRC as a possibility of just a board that constitutes when needed. So it hasn't been convened before or is it just, no, I would trust Doug on that one. I would say no, because the formation of that board was, I think in the time that I was on select order maybe just before I was on select board we never met, and I don't think it did before that I don't think the circumstance arose that that was necessary. So it's never been needed. So it's not entirely an administrative fiction, it's just sort of out there in case it's okay. It's non non fiction. All right. No, that's interesting. I didn't yeah I just I didn't know. So have there, are there generally a lot of appeals or violations and Amherst, or it's just. This is where Rob could answer but you know he, he does a lot of violations but I think they don't do it under the current rental registration system, because the current rental bylaw the violations are mostly about having a permit or not. Okay, and the new bylaw may include more than that. Yeah. Okay, right. Thanks. No, I just didn't know. Okay, anything else Dylan. Yes, just just so I'm still clear on really we're talking about here it's a question is whether or not we would like to be the ones that the authority to issue these licenses, but we then wouldn't necessarily want to be the people who would then be in charge of revoking the licenses if it if it came down to the correct that that kind of the question right now. Right in the first instance, if there's a violation or we the ones that fine but I'll defer the counselor. I was just going to say that right now the licenses the permits are issued directly by the planning department the building commissioner and there has not been a proposal to change that to the board to you guys. So let's talk about that to see what but but right now the permit is mostly administrative and and the the goal is to move that a little beyond administrative but and particularly with respect to inspections because our building commissioner really wants to be able to have a reason to go into every single rental unit in town regularly, whether that be three years five years yearly depending on things and so I think if if asked Rob more would probably say leave the issuance of the permit with the building commissioner and but we could ask him. And so the question here is do you guys want to be able to write this does the board of licensed commissioners want to be able to write the regulations on terms of things like what inspections include around potentially appeals. There's a whole lot of spots we have right now that we haven't talked about that might include potential for regulations, what the application should include energy efficiency or some are just some of the things that could go to regulations. Does your board want that authority or would you prefer that to be somewhere else and then as Gaston had said, what about appeals or, or the suspensions the sort of violations portion. There are different drafts out there and talk about who should be able to do that. Okay, great. I mean I think that the question for for you all to explore and for us to think about is what could we be, you know, what could we be good at that fits into the kinds of hearings we're doing we were checking that the standards are met that the, you know, business owner is being responsive to to the questions that we think are important, where that kind of engagement is valuable I think we're we're well suited to help take some of the load, maybe we're well suited to evaluate the consequence of not meeting certain energy efficiency requirements I don't know. But I think that's the question is what, what could we do well that fits into the kind of work that we've been doing. And you may know, you know, part of my role is also working with the rental permits as the rental permanent administrators why I'm not out, you know, issuing violations or inspecting anything but I help process all of them. And I do think, you know, having worked with you all for several years, you would be well positioned to draft the regulations I think you have a pretty good, good sense of the, you know, balancing the businesses needs and the public's needs and I think that would be well suited. I don't necessarily think issuing each license would be a good idea because there are so many of them it's enough work for us in administrative side just getting them issued without it without a public hearing but I mean one idea I might suggest is, you know, I think there's a good point about appeals but you know maybe there's could be something that's done there but maybe, you know, public hearings for, you know, significant sanctions above and beyond fines or maybe, you know, if a rental has been issued some kind of violation in the past year that when they come up for renewal that they do have to go for a public hearing with the board. Just two ideas I might suggest. Okay. Thanks Steve. So do we want to decide that today or just have another conversation about it about the draft potentially drafting the regulations. I mean, I like Steve's ideas. I thought those are helpful to put it in those terms. I think he's right about that. I think that, indeed, where there's a public hearing makes sense for the nature of the violation or the potential penalty I think that we can serve a good role in the first level at the not reviewing but actually sanctioning. And as far as drafting regulations, I think that if a lot of the substantive issues have been ironed out between, you know, Rob's team and the council, then that last step of making it work for how our process operates, I think that we, I think that Steve's right that we can pick pick up from there. Okay. It's great. Thanks. Dylan or Doug with any thoughts on that today. I think we'd be up for, we'd be up for the challenge came our way. Yeah, sure. I think I don't know that we necessarily taken me to take any formal action I think, you know, sort of a consensus, you know, information to the counselor that she can relay back. You know, sort of the things we've talked about and where we think we fit well within that will help, I think their conversation about how they structure some of it to. So I think that's probably all we absolutely formally have to do today. Okay. Okay. Great. Thanks. Thank you for including me and listen to it. Thanks. Well, as Doug said, definitely help as we continue our discussions. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for coming. Sorry to spring it on you, but we were excited. I saw it on there where I looked at the agenda and was like, I don't want to want me to stay for that. Thank you. All right. Thanks a lot, Mandy. And yeah, thanks for coming and help with everything. Okay. Next. Adult use marijuana regulations done. No update there. I think that, you know, you had the meeting last week I was like, I had a couple weeks and then I realized meeting this this week and I was like, Oh, darn. Yeah, we're going to meet in two weeks, correct. And so I think it'll be critical. I think for the same reason Gaston was saying about the fees and we're doing those. And there's also one that we really, you know, we, the royal waste me need to get in the sort of final state and frame so that we can get it through and put it in place again for, you know, sort of the renewal season at the end of the calendar year. So it's incumbent upon me to bring you sort of what I would suggest for final drafts for for things at our next meeting. Okay, thanks. Yes, Gaston. Well, I guess I just want to say I think that we are getting to a time where it would be very valuable for the commission to be proactive as, as Doug has, has been laying the foundation to do. I had an interesting conversation with a friend who spent some time talking to a bud tender at one of the dispensaries. And it was helpful for me to kind of understand their business model so maybe as we're kind of thinking about this. My friend said you know you guys are empty how do you, how do you actually, how are you surviving, you know how are you doing well he said well, you got to look at it this way. Someone comes in and they're ordering something and it's like ordering a beer, but then they leave. And the next person. However, someone might come in and might order 30 beers. And it takes me about the same amount of time as as it does to serve one beer. And so that kind of sporadic in and out would actually translate to a pretty busy bar, if people were sticking around to use it. Anyway, it was helpful for me to understand a little bit better what's going on at the same time I think that there probably is one or two too many maybe I don't know, they're going to need to differentiate. I think, and I wonder if we can somehow be proactively useful in, you know, creating conditions for differentiation, I don't have ideas I'm just trying to kind of get our juices flowing. Okay. So yeah, interesting you bring that up and talk about the, you know, sort of the time it takes them to do it. I think one of the things because I was thinking about that too about the, you know, it's like you drive by all these different places. It's a ghost app right. It's like one car it's like that must be the guy working. And the thing is, is that I think they also utilize a fair amount of online ordering so yeah, they might have ordered three days ago that they swing it and pick up the box so it's really a transaction and they're out the door. That's like, you know, buying a soda at the convenience store. But I think the, I think the other thing I've been thinking about is if and, well, if and or when I think it's more win than if public consumption is allowed. So cafe bar type things can we can we fold that into this as well and that's sort of the different story relative to, you know, just a sort of pick up dispensary kind of play so right I mean I think, you know, as far as how many we have and learning allows eight and, you know, someone say the market will allow them to succeed or fail it's, you know, best, and that's their job to figure out. I mean I think for us it's, I think the, the role I think we play is just to have that sort of public conversation before one goes in or as one operates that are they being good stewards in their in their area. So in the same way we asked those questions of liquor license, people as well. I mean we want to mold these as businesses won't be successful. And, and not to impede that success on this, you know, but we also recognize a larger context in which these things sit and things we need to be conscientious about us as those business sit in various places so. Great, thank you. So lunch carts are next and last, and I sent you all or had Steve send you all a draft of a lunch cart race which actually isn't any much different than the last one I sent last time we met. So it was funny I had some questions that I knew to answer, and I emailed Rob Mara and Susan Malone at the health department and also emailed the town clerk's office about the parking fees and how lunch carts might cover their parking fees. So they referred me to Steve McCarthy as the person who knew everything which I thought was kind of funny, but so question one is if we could use why lunch carts are called lunch carts and can we use mobile food establishments and Susan Malone said that it's not a legal term it's not a historic term but it's one they came up with to avoid confusion with the health license, which is called the mobile food operations license. So if we want to change ours and have mobile food establishment and mobile food operations license, it's nothing we have to decide today, maybe we can come up with something punchier and also universal, who knows. Okay, so do we have reciprocal license and the answer to that is no, apparently there is she says you have to get one for each town. So this I thought was interesting. Ice cream vendors, they have to be vetted by the police department. In their base of operation or the town they operate unless they're stationary, and then we license them. So I guess the criteria for whether or not the Board of License commissioners licenses of food truck or lunch cart or mobile food establishment is whether it's parked or not. So if it's moving, we don't do it. If it's not moving, it's ours. And then I did email and I know Steve you saw some of this in the email chain about the town clerk about the parking and how they cover parking and it everyone says well the whole all guy just pays the meter and that seems to work but maybe we want to have another a bigger conversation about this and then a couple of other people got on and it turned into something longer. So it was like pulling asking a string and I really came away with more questions than I had answers to the question itself. Yeah, so I don't know I think maybe the next step for this Steve is just sitting down with Robin Susan because actually more questions came up for me and I don't know about you, and just having a meeting about it so we can go over everything. What do you think. Yeah I think that would make sense. Yeah, I don't know about that chain about the parking and yeah like you said it all kind of got referred back to me which is kind of funny. The collector's office is the office that really. Excuse me, the clerk's office is the office that really handles the income from parking and I think Jen LaFountain was a who's the collector was copied on some of those emails and hopefully she'll get back to us I kind of pose some questions to her about, what would they do to us. They're kind of the, you know, between them and the parking enforcement people who they were close to but I mean that's really the, I think the group whose views we'd want to take into account and, you know, I can see benefits of a paying an advanced scheme and I can see downsides like if somebody decides they just don't want to come in that day or don't think this is going to be good or it's really hot or something and they kind of are have a sunk cost so I'd be interested to see what they come back with I tried to kind of give some of that framing to them. But I think, you know, that is kind of a more limited issue and, and we could probably move forward on other fronts and you know leave that to to see when they circle back with us. The naming issue. I do think it would be good to have, you know, maybe the regulations refer to you know, because regulations you know we have kind of a bell for everyone but you know something like you know regulations for mobile food operations in the public way. I do think it would be good to have a bit of a pithier name for the license. I'm not a huge fan of lunch carts because it just very clearly sounds like it excludes food trucks but you know mobile food operations can operate exclusively on private property a number of them do with them with the big colleges we have so with this many guitars on the screen I'm confident that some of us will be creative enough to come up with something, something better. Yes, Doug. So, just to back to the parking question, I, well, let me start with what Steve finished the mobile food establishment, you know, I like that I think if whatever we decide I think, again, we want something that doesn't create confusion and conflict with the, with the inspections thing. That's fine I think we just need to put in the definitions so I think that's probably held off on that because we've been vending about ideas around that. So, on the parking, I know that like the short term so in, in, if you want to reserve, you can essentially, and it used to go to the, the select board it pregos the council now if you want to reserve the parking spot let's say you're moving into an apartment. You can essentially buy a parking spot for the day, if it's short term, that's public waste stuff, the town manager's office handles it, actually go out and bag the meter. And so, you know, if it were something near. And, and what's interesting about that is that I thought about is that, you know, who's to say, who gets the spot when you just bag the meter. You know, other than the person that pulls in with their, with their, you know, rented truck or whatever. But, but one thing that could be done and not to over overthink it is, you know, is there like a canvas bag that, you know, when they pay for that parking for the year. There's like a canvas bag with a number on it that is their bag to use all year long. And they, you know, they pull up and they, they cover the meter with that bag and then the parking people know that it's been paid and it's, here's their number it's the same as their mobile license, but the payment could be made directly to the, to the collector's office and you go to the parking, as it should, should actually go to the parking fund. But I think there's some straightforward and functionally operational and simple ways to solve that problem but, but that's, that's a thought I just had as far as like, oh well if you're going to routinely, if you got a food truck you got to park on street so you're going to want to have the ability to park and cover the meter in a way so you don't have to have change or, you know, use the app or whatever and you prepay the whole year if you want that way. Obviously, if people want to just beat the meter that's obviously I think an okay option to it's just going to be probably more expensive to do that way because I think we can or should or could discount the, the, the prepayment a little bit. Just some ideas. Great. Yeah, I mean I think that's a nice idea. If the, if the goal is to give a discount on the park mobile app. That bag that Doug described could have a QR code. Oh yeah, or whatever the, the parking meter attendance can scan. Okay. Great idea. Okay. Great. Anything else on these currently now. So Steve, we should we just meet with Susan and Rob at some point. Yeah we can we can definitely talk and try to set something up. Okay, or specific questions. Okay. All right, and then I will, we will do that and then have another draft. Overview. Great. Thanks. Anything else is that our last discussion item. It is our last discussion item. Okay. Topics not read simply reasonably anticipated 40 hours prior to the meeting. Anything. Well, I would suggest because the, the transfer application was a continued public hearing that we just open the public hearing and, and accept the withdrawal. Okay. Super. So is there a motion to open the public hearing for the transfer of alcohol off premises license and change of location and she'll put enterprises ink to oxbow winds LLC. Thank you. Is there a second. Thank you, Dylan. Thank you, Doug. I'll take a vote Doug. Hi, Dylan. Hi, Gaston. I, and I vote I that is four to zero of one absent the hearing is now open. So we are accepting the withdrawal. Do we vote on the accept someone like to move to accept the withdrawal. Thank you, Doug. Is there a second. Thank you, Dylan. Any further discussion. Oh wait, now do we. Did I do this right Steve did I do a vote and then we close or do we. I think that would that would dispose of it so we won't need to close it. Oh, super. Okay, so let's take a vote. Doug. Hi, Dylan. Gaston. Hi. And I vote I four to zero with one absent we have accepted the withdrawal of the transfer of the cousins market. And it's done for the time being. Thank you. All right, so that's done. We have no topics anticipated. And then we have our next meeting is what the 18th at five. Is that the next Thursday. Two weeks. Yes. Is that everybody. Okay with everybody. All right, great. Is, is there anything else. If not, is there a motion to adjourn. So moved. Thank you, Doug. Is there a second. Thank you, Dylan. Take a vote, Doug. Hi, Dylan. And I vote I four to zero with one absent. We're adjourned at five 53 p.m. Thank you. Thank you. And. Thanks a lot, Steve, and see you on the 18th. Thank you all very much. I'll see you.