 Check it, check it, check it, it's a unique hustle, it's your boy, E-C-E-O, and I'm here with the lovely official, Ms. Jamaica, what's going on? None. Walk on. Man, so hey, man, you know it's one of those days, man, where I have to use my low voice. The low voice means I'm being serious. The high voice means sometime I'm a little sarcastic. Check it, man. Dr. Wanda McKinley is in the house. How you doing, sweetheart? I'm great. I thought the low voice was sexy voice. No, not at all. No, no. No, it's the, because I get real, I get, I'm passionate, so I speak out sometime. So when I do this voice here, it's me and I'm into what you're saying. So yeah, Dr. Wanda McKinley, man, and she's from We Are Survivors Foundation, and I mean, hey, man, we happy to have her, you know what I'm saying? So could you give us a little bit of detail about who you are and just kind of where you come from? And from the background. A little bit of the background. From way back as far as you can think about. Whoa. As a child. He said little. That'd be a long story, wouldn't it? Come on, summarize it. Give us a little bit more. That's funny, because someone said, Wanda, can you send me a bio so I send her my bio? She says, oh, we needed to be a hundred words. I said, good luck with that one. So you're asking me to do the same thing, right? Okay, let's see. Okay, that's good. Let me just ask you the questions, because I mean, I take this whole time of just summarizing. Okay, okay. So have you always wanted to be a doctor when you was younger growing up? You know what? I always wanted to be a doctor, but let me tell you, when I was younger, what we envisioned as doctors, what we saw on TV, so that was the white coats and the hospitals. A lot of little black girls don't realize you can be a doctor and not have to work physically in the hospital. You can be a doctor of education, you can be a doctor of counseling, you can be a doctor of whatever you want to be. There's also doctor degrees that you can earn from working out in the community, because people also acknowledge what you do in the community. Not so much as education, because a lot of little girls, well, I can't afford that. But if you're out here and you're working and you're doing things for people, someone's going to take note. So you do have your educational doctorate degrees, and you do have your honorary doctorate degrees. Right. So I wanted to be a doctor's little girl, but I pictured that doctor. God said, you're going to be this type of doctor. Okay. What type of doctor is that? I have a doctorate degree in social advocacy, and in the year and a half, I'm going back because I want a doctorate degree in education that specializes in traumatology. Hmm. Okay. What caused you to go into that? My personal story. So being a survivor of domestic violence, I went through over 24 consecutive years of abuse. Okay. So this was someone you was married to? This is, let's see, biological father, stepfather, uncle, cousin, classmate, boyfriend, and ex-husband. Oh, okay. No, no, no. I'm saying that. Okay. I want to ask one question. Was your mom abused? I found out that my father was also abusing my mother once I came out with my story because my mom, too, I named her, but she was also one of my abusers. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. So this is a learned behavior? It is a learned behavior, and it's also I have found out it can be genetic. That's why I was, that's what I was getting to, because I was just about to ask, was she abused by her parents or by anyone that you know of? Because or father, because back in the days, a lot of women tend to be more hush hush about certain things, and they're not so much. They're like, when kids can't, when their children will come to them and say, mom, I was touched or mama was, they're like, shh, don't tell nobody. Just just suck it up. Everything be okay. You know, that type of thing, try to put a bandaid on it instead of actually dealing with the situation. And a lot of times what I did that is because their mother or their, whoever their guardian was did that to them, so they didn't know how, how else to deal with it. And for my mom's situation, my grandmother, her mother was actually killed, hand on collision by a drunk driver. I said, my grandmother, her mother was a nurse. And so when she'd lost her mother at 13, she just decided that she was just going pretty much while out. So my, my mom and my father had been together. She was 13. He was 18 and she had me when she was 15. So it wasn't that her mom or her and my grandfather was an alcoholic. So he really went never around. And my father took this little girl and that's all she knew. So my father is a hot blooded Puerto Rican. And my mom was an uneducated little black girl and fell in love with this man. That's my family. Hate it has heard stories how my family really hated my dad. And so I just think he had the opportunity, like most abusers do, to mold and groom. And that's what he did to my mom. So it wasn't that she grew up around it. It was just the fact that my father took advantage of. Did you ever find out if he was around that when he was younger? Why made him into that person? My father didn't know his father. So I don't know if that stemmed from anger, OK, not knowing really where he came from. And my brother, my brother, my grandmother passed away 15 years ago. So she kind of took that with her. And then, you know, you don't kind of ask your elders their business. Right. So we have absolute. So it's like for me, a part of me is missing because I have no idea where that came from or where it stemmed from. And that's what we all think about is that, you know, well, today, if you're thinking to me, if you're thinking straight, you think about it has to be a learned behavior from somewhere, whether it be it doesn't even have to be genetic. It could be something that you were raised around. It doesn't have to be somebody you're related to, but something you've seen. So it's a learned behavior, but it has to come from somewhere. It's not always just you just made up and I'm just going to start beating on this woman every day. Right. You know, so. With all that that you have went through over and over, because let me ask you, when was the first time you was abused? By who? My biological father. OK, let me try. Oh, my goodness. So my mother was a stay at home mom. My father was in a Navy, so we were really spoiled. With the Catholic schools had the best of the best, like the Brady Bunch on the outside. My father got caught. I was six years old, but I know that wasn't his first time because when the way he got caught, my mother walked in with him on top of me. So I know that wasn't your first time you built up the courage to get to that point. But when something traumatic happens to you, that's like a date stamp in your mind. So it's it's hard to try and move beyond that night, because that's all I see. But I know that that's not the first time. So my biological father molested me as early as the age of six until I was 12, and my mother left him for the third and final time when you were 12 when I was 12. And so then my mother met my mom was that type of woman. I always had to have a man. It just didn't matter just as long as she had a man. And so the next guy she met, she quickly married. But before they got married, he told her that he wanted to marry me. I was 12 and not marry her. We were all in the same room. And she's still married him. She didn't even say a word. So she married him. And right before I turned 13, he raped me. So after I turned 13, after I went through that and see my brothers and sisters were in the other room and my sister's two and a half years younger than me and my little brother's 10 years younger than me. So I didn't yell. I didn't scream. I didn't do any of that. And once he raped me, kissed me on my forehead and then I had to clean up the blood. Like he just like nothing happened. So then a couple of months later, my 13th birthday, my dad, when I speak in schools, I always tell these little girls they watched the video of big scenes and all that kind of different things in the shopping sprees. Well, I was doing that way back then. So my father for my birthday, I was fly home, which is San Antonio. And he would allow me to just have them all. Whatever I wanted, it just didn't matter. This 13th birthday, my dad told me that for my birthday, he wanted to be my first, not knowing that my stepfather had already raped me. So my birthday, my biological father raped me. So from the age of 13 to 18, my biological father and my stepfather continuously raped me. Then I met my ex-husband about 18, going into 19. And for me, it was at the time where for both of us, it was all about sex and I got pregnant. And then we're together. OK, we get together, I had my baby when I was 20. We went through, I say, growing pains, craziness, young. His girlfriend moved in to our apartment and him and his girlfriend slept in our bed while me and the newborn slept on the floor. I've had sexual transmitted diseases from him. I've had his female friends pull guns on me. Like we went through all I've had my ear busted. He's raped me, too. So he went through all kind of stuff from the age of 18 and a half to 31. So for me, the reason why I left him was because of our little girl. And I didn't want my little girl to grow up thinking that was the way of life. I didn't want. OK, let me start for just a second. How long did it take? Because I know that you didn't just think about that one day and say, I'm going to leave tomorrow and live tomorrow. You probably been thinking about that for years to build up that coverage to leave because. Not for me, because that was my way of life. That's all I knew. Yeah, she grew up in the midst of it. She didn't. That was normal for me. So it just you started thinking about her and you just packed up and left. My daughter was like in the fourth grade. And, you know, we think we're hiding those things from our babies. We think they don't hear. We think they don't see. But she is telling me so much stuff after I came out. She was like, mom, I kind of knew something was going on. But for me, I had made my mind I was going to stay with him until she turned 18 because I came from a broken home. Correct. And a lot of us don't want to do the same thing to our kids. So I was like, OK, I'm going because he if we would have met and dated, we would have never been together. It was just the fact that I got pregnant and I just didn't want my child to repeat all the things that I had gone through. Because if she see me going through it, she's going to mimic me. We're we're their examples. You're right. And go ahead. Let me ask you what was any of it? I know you you went through sexual abuse. Was it a physical abuse involved as well, hitting you or anything like that with any of these relationships? I went through mental, physical, verbal, sexual, financial, spiritual. I went through every different form of abuse you can imagine. Well, you're walking miracle. Yeah, God, God is good. I mean, are you married now? I am. And how is this relationship? It's totally different. Totally different. Whenever you go into a relationship, even with your children's father or your child's father, did you tell him all the things that happened to you before? He knew he knew. But it's just something that, you know, like, like I said, it's not something that he probably either seen it or was it was introduced to it by somebody else. Oh, he has. See, he has to tell us a little bit about that. Because because you you can only do what you've seen at some point in your life. I was about two and a half, three months pregnant when I first met his parents and he's from Louisiana. And so the first day I was there, they him and his parents got into an argument and his father was an alcoholic and he was drunk and he was on the back patio. And his mom went into the house, into the kitchen and got like a no, not that dramatic, a dish towel, like something. She got something and started came outside to start hitting them outside the head, like just started hitting him. Like it was just the normal thing to do. Yeah. And it was a flag for me. And I literally was like, oh, wow. But I'm pregnant. Yeah. Yeah. And and at that time, he hadn't hit you yet. Oh, no. No, but she could see the signs. It was there. And then his brother was abusive to his girlfriend and was a drug user and he snorted cocaine. So he could be high. I mean, it's been times when he was sleepwalking and went up in my room and his brother is laying next to me and he's massaging my breast. Wow. So I would slap, like, get your brother, but he would always blame it on, I'm sorry. You know, I was high or I'm drunk, but if you were so out of it, how do you remember you did that the next morning? Right. Oh, I thought I was going because he's like literally woke up and his penis was like, oh, what are you? Oh, I thought this was the bathroom. Yeah. So it we like to ignore it because we don't really want to accept it. A lot of times, but I knew. Do you allow your child to go around him? He's deceased. Oh. You talking about the uncle? No, I'm talking about the child's father. Well, here's the thing, right? And that's what I know when God's in the mix. Me and my ex-husband are the best of friends. We were all just together Saturday celebrate our grandbabies turn two Friday. And people laugh because we literally lived and this was not planned within walking distance of each other. When we got remarried, we got remarried the same year, like two weeks apart. Of course, that was not planned. So we've talked within the last, I would say, five to seven years because when he lost his brother, it's sitting him on the spiral. So he actually received counseling and acknowledged a lot of what he did to me. And we've had conversations about that. And we're in a space now that can I remember everything that went on when we're talking? Absolutely not. When I have a flashback, I pick up my phone and he allows me to go through my process. And we're in a space now where we can talk about it. We were younger then. Does it make an excuse or a reason? Absolutely not. But now that we're two different in two different spaces, we've grown a lot, not just in ourselves, but spiritually. So we have a child and a grandbaby. And I just don't want negativity around, especially my grandbaby. You want to change the cycle? And I say change. I've broken it because I just, I can't. And he's in that same space as well. Oh, yes. Because it's, although you're not together, it still takes two because you both are a part of your it's your daughter, right? Your daughter's life and your grandchild life. You don't want any of that in the past to fall over on them. You know what I mean? Is your daughter and your granddaughter, is the man that the father of a child, is he in her life? They're together. They're together? They're engaged. Okay, that's dope. Because I'm just looking at the pattern stopping. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. And ironically, he's actually from two streets over. Where my ex-husband's from. So like really? I was trying to get you away from this space, but he's really good, sir. Yeah, that's good. So during the time that you went through all of these things, do you feel like at any way that you had, you was at fault at anything that happened? No, because I just thought it was normal. So you don't see no wrong that you may, when you're argued or something, was there ever a place where you felt like, man, I shouldn't have said nothing. I should have went the other way. Absolutely not. No, uh-uh. I didn't have, I'm not, and once again, not saying that this condones or is a reason, but I've never been one of those women with a smart mouth. Yeah. No, I don't, you know, fly off. My father was, is military. So we were raised to respect. Yeah. Regardless. And so because I'm not confrontational, and I guess because of the abuse I had gone through as a young child, it was more so just knowing my place. Rather, I disagree with it now. I didn't allow some things I thought. You could have spoken up about. Well, even if I would have said something. Well, what happened? What would, and then what difference would it have made? Were you a quiet child? Were you quiet into yourself? Or were you loud and talk to everybody or outgoing? I'm just saying coming up from 12 to 16. And here's the thing about abuse. My childhood is so spotty. Okay. I don't remember. You try to block it out. I've blocked so much out. Yeah, I get it. That's the only thing I really remember. I was born on Halloween. So I remember my birthday parties because my family went above and beyond. My grandmother tried to protect me from her son as best she could. So I was with my grandmother a lot in church. She had me in beauty pageants and modeling and dance and all of that. So I remember those things. But as a child, like who was I? Besides a bookworm? So basically you were being raped. You was being abused sexually, physically, and everything else. But still trying to maintain a normal life. Straight A student. We become some of us, it's kind of, I'll say, weird. You put all your focus into something to get a distraction from what you're really going through. Yeah. Because I am a true over achiever, even to this day. And it's just being focused. Because if I focused on something positive, then what was going on didn't really bother me. And then my mother blamed me because it was like every man comes in my life. That sounds like something I've seen in a movie. Like you took my husband away from me because he wanted you and not me. What was that movie? There was a movie on this life. But my mom actually had a full blown sexual relationship with my ex fiance to get back at me. Wow. So they were together. Your mom's still alive? Do you have a relationship with her now? She just left my house on Sunday. Yes. We are, now my mom is more like my pillar. There was a time when my mom... How did you... How did you... God. God. God. God. No, but I'm, I know it's God. I know it's God. But I'm talking about when you weren't talking, what did you do to start that forgiveness process? Did you just come to her one day and say... Nope. So I'm trying to get a picture of what happened. How did you get to that place? How did you guys get to the place that you're at now? She came to my church. Okay. You invited her? No. Okay. No. I didn't have her... No. In my phone, it was Karen. So my mom called, it said Karen. It didn't say mom or mommy or mom. That's her real name. Her... Okay. Karen. That's what I called her. My mother, the first time I heard my mom say, I love you, I was 31 years old. And when she said, I hung the phone up in her face. Wow. Like, stop playing. And when we were in church and when the spirit hit her, and she was... Please, you're embarrassing me. Stop. So she was pretty much trying to... You didn't believe her? She was trying to open up and say, I'm sorry for what happened. After all that? And you didn't believe her? We've had fistfights. Like, mm-mm. I actually, because my mother was so negative, I made sure that my child wasn't around her grandmother because I didn't want... I tried to keep all of the negativity away from my baby. And it was so bad that until, like, about five, seven years ago, my daughter thought that her grandmother chose her cousin over her. She didn't know that, no, your mom removed you from your grandmother's life because of the type of person that your grandmother was. Did you eventually tell your daughter? Yeah, she knows now. Oh, yeah. Okay. But I'm still trying to see, okay, so she came to your church, she did all of that, but when was... That's a breaking point. Yes, what did it take for you to say, okay, mom, I do forgive you? How long did it take from the moment, from that day when she went to church to the day that you said, you know what? I see you're not giving up. And I see that you look like you're true to what, you know, what you're trying to do. So I forgive you. There wasn't a time on it. And I didn't physically just say, okay, I believe you. I just, it just happened because... Healing just happened. It just happened. And looked up over time and now the child that you shunned, the child that had to ask permission to come home for the holidays, the child that you didn't want around you. Now I'm really the main one that makes sure you're okay. And you have two other siblings. And okay. But you're the oldest one. I am. Wow. You know, it's extraordinary that the stories that I'm sitting here listening to, because you really, these are stories, really that's mind blowing, but you know they're out there. You know what I mean? And like I said, I commend you just for being a strong black woman and making it to now and saying, you know what, all that stuff. And I went through it and I'm able to talk about it. I'm able to... So how do you do... I know this, your ministry is... I'm able to give back. Yeah, yeah. Your ministry is in doing something to go target that niche market that you was affected by. So how did you get into doing that? I love Joyce Myers. Okay. So this particular evening I was watching Joyce Myers when it went off, got up, take a shower, right? Turn on the shower on and a lot of people always ask me, how did she make it through all those years of abuse? And the only answer I can give them is God, because even when my father was raping me, the only thing I see is me above him watching him rape me. Like I never can see his face. I never see... I've never, ever remember looking up at him or my stepfather. I just always remember being above them. So like you're not raping my spirit, you're not raping my soul, you're just raping the shell of my body, because I'm above you. And that's literally what happened every time I was raped. So I tell people that when I went through, God, all of the hurt and pain that I was supposed to feel then, I didn't feel it. So every time I was raped, I would get up like nothing happened. This particular night, all the pain that he protected me from through all of those years, he allowed me to feel it in one moment. And oh my God, oh my God, man. So that night, he told me that my purpose and my calling was to be transparent. So I, of course, I forgot to cry and went through that. Me and God went back and forth for about three years. Because that took a while. You were outside with God like Jacob. Because I was just like, I'm not like that. I'm not going to do that. Because at that point, you were still ashamed of what you went through to put it out there. Wasn't ashamed? Mm-mm. Wasn't ashamed. Angry. And it's like it was nobody's business. And then you know, you're raised, they were going behind closed doors. Stay behind closed doors. That's for real. Like as a child, that is embedded in your mind, regardless of what's going on behind closed doors. Certain things you just hold on to. And to me, it wasn't about his damn business. Not to mention what freaked everyone out, that knows me and is around me. I was still a daddy's girl. Me and my father's relationship was so close that, like I said, he lives in San Antonio. I live here in Dallas, Fort Worth. And my dad called me one Sunday. He's like, I wonder what are you doing? I'm like, it's Sunday. I'm getting ready to go to church. I'm going to leave here in 15 minutes. He's like, I'm going to go with you. Dad, I'm going to sign with you or six hours away. He said, no, I'm going to church with you. I was like, whatever. He's like, open your door. It was 10, 15 a.m. My dad had his church suit on, had driven from San Antonio, went to church with me, went to eat, and then drove back to San Antonio. Like he lived down the street. My birthday parties, my dad would always come. My dad would always foot the bill, pay for it. So when my story came out, my friends that was around my father, they was like, wait a minute, what the hell? Right. Like what? But we've been around her dad. And everything looks so normal. And they, so no one believed it. I had, I had some, their ex-friends, she was like, stop lying. Why would I lie about that? But. How did your dad feel about you? Oh, he stopped talking. We haven't talked. We haven't talked. My organization would be seven years old in December. It'll be seven years that we haven't, that we've spoken. And my sister has taken my dad's side. So it mean my sister. So she doesn't believe you? Because. I speak well. I know you say you were quiet a lot of times. So she, they wouldn't. Well, she, wouldn't that she didn't believe me, but my sister was always in my shadow. Unfortunately. Oh, she wants to be dad's turn. I'm first born, first grandchild. So for her, this was an opportunity to, now I have a parent that's really paying attention to me. And so her and my father on one spectrum, me, my brother and my mom on the other spectrum. Got you. So my family right now is, it's broken, but it's always been broken. Right. But at least the truth is out there. That's all that matters. It is. Leave it up to God. He'll do the rest of the work. Oh, he's one leading me. So. Yeah. Yeah. So would you say that? Who have you helped? For as a person that's been through some stuff like you, is there any, and you don't have to put a name on it, right? Okay. A particular person that has went through the same thing that you, you've, your, your experience, you, you experience some, not, not as ex, no, I want to know if there's anybody worse that you've ever encountered. Well, here's the thing, right? And that people have asked that all the time. And to me, when I hear someone's story, I'm like, Oh my God. But someone that's hearing my story and theirs to be like, Wanda, but yours is worse. Yeah. But I, I removed self. Yeah. And I'm like, wow, that happened to you. Before COVID, we had a support group and I would facilitate and we'd have a bunch of women. I even had a man that was an abuser to become to the support. And he was an abuser. He was the abuser. Yes. Wow. And he learned a lot too. They would pour into me now when I would get him, I'd be strong for them. Okay. You can't really compare one abuse story to the other. Like what's one is worse because they're all horrible, but just listening to them. When I would get in my car, I would just cry and be, Oh my God, God, this happened to these women. Because it's not, I've never heard a woman's story and then try and compare. Because to me, they're, they're all horrible. Now, have I met someone yet that has gone through the length? No. But to me, I don't care if it was five minutes. It's, I've never like stopped them. Everybody's trauma is different and how they react to it is totally different. Some people commit suicide because of it. They do. And it's, it's, you know, and to them, it was the worst than anybody else. That's why they did that. Not to mention a lot of people don't really believe in voices and people are being told to do certain things. And for me, if you believe in God, you've got to believe in the devil. If you believe in good, you've got to believe in evil. And a lot of times people are like, Girl, nobody's talking to you. And didn't you, there have been times, especially since I've been obedient with God, I tell people all the time they asked about how the organization started and all of that. And of course it was God that told me to do it. But the part that I leave out the most is, but the devil came to visit me first. It wasn't God that came to visit me first. It was a devil. And the devil offered me a deal. I didn't take it. Oh, that's what did he say? What he did was he literally took me through my past. Names, places, present, and then a tablet of my future. And then he stopped and then he started laughing. And he says, I know what's in store for you. But he said, if you sign your soul over to me, I can give you so much more. Now, what I do recall was calling out in Jesus' name. When I came to, I was petrified. Couldn't remember why I was so scared. I prayed all day for God to please reveal to me why, as my spirit, so reveled. And when God revealed to me what happened, then all I can do was start praying. But that happened. And then three years later is when God showed up. But the devil came to me first. That's so crazy that it was so much of a long period of time. You know, that's why a lot of times when I tell people, pray, pray for whatever you want, because God will answer your prayers. But everybody's looking for it to happen tomorrow, the next day. Sometimes you have to forget it. And then sometimes you don't even realize it actually happened until you're looking back on your life. And you're like, you know what? I did pray for that. And look at this. Isn't God good? Because I was praying for him to use me. I just didn't know he was going to use me like this. What's spectacular about it is that you're ready to counsel on a whole another level than others are able to even fathom. So the things that you've experienced, God just going to use it to help others, as he's already doing. That's pretty much the way the game go. I hate to say it, but everybody has a ministry that God pulls out of them. And mine could be something, yours could be something, yours is something. But he lets you go through experiences so that you'll be able to bring other people out of the darkness. Exactly. That's the way that he works. And I've definitely, I've seen that in more ways than one. You know, if I start telling my story, we get real quiet in here too, because I've been through a lot. You know what I mean? So that's the whole game. I like the way that God take people and let them go through situations, kind of like he did Joseph, when he was sold away in the Bible. And basically he was sold in the Midianites and the Ishmaelites took him to Egypt. And next thing you know, he's over there and he's going through and his brothers and family and everybody feel like, you know, he's been abandoned, but he never complained. That's who he reminded me of when you talk. Because it seemed like you're going through this, but you just continue to go through it. And basically without any complaints, and that's the way Jesus was too. But Joseph, that's the way he was in Potter for Wife. She went at him and tried to get him in a situation. Brother sold him out. You know, then he went to jail. Once he got the butler, turned his back on him. Next thing you know, he ends up, you know, God used him now to help everybody around him because of everything he'd been through at the end. He was able to help all the families and the people that wasn't even in his family in his family or his family, his brothers and sisters. So, or brothers, not sisters. But the thing is, God uses the people. He let them go through things is what I'm saying. And the thing is with that, I always say everything happens for a reason and in its own time. And then I've even had friends when I, because that's one of my famous quotes. I always say it. And I've had a friend who asks me, what do you mean by everything happens for a reason? Because what happened to all these bad things that people go through? You know, people lose kids. I mean, so many evil stuff happened. I said, yes, but it's not our job to know who that situation was meant to touch. It's not our job to know that, but to know any bad thing that happened, it touched somebody, because if a person lost a child at a young age or the nurse could have been touched by a situation, somebody who's been watching that person carry that child for all of those months and turn around and lost a child. And then that person's faith is still strong and that person didn't, whether argue against God or whatever, the situation is somebody else got motivated from that situation. Or because of what you went through all those years, it enabled you to do what you're doing today. And for people to come to you and know that anything I pour into you, you've been through that or worse. Because I've seen where some people say, you can't advise me. You've never been through what I've been through. But because you've been through what you've been through and you're still here standing and they can look at you as a success story. I know that this is something that you would have, because yesterday we had counselors on and I've asked them, do you ever get over the trauma? Is there a time where through counseling for years that you are able to say, I overcame it? And they said, no. No. But people believe that and that's not, no. And I hear people all the time, you can be healed. You can be healed. Yes, you can heal. But here's the thing, triggers. Triggers, and that's exactly what they said. And my first rapist, my stepfather, hadn't seen the man since I was 18 years old. And four years ago, he called me. Now he had to Google me on social media or Google, it's not hard to find me. So he got my nonprofit number, not my personal number. But when he called me, because it was on my nonprofit, I had to answer, not thinking it's going to be him another one. And immediately when I heard his voice, I went back to that 12 year old little girl and we were on the phone for almost three hours. I couldn't get off the phone. And even though this man still believes that I wanted him and that he should have married me and not my mom, he told me that he still has the panties from the night that he raped me. And that he had contemplated at least three times since I was 18 to actually come and get me. And after all of that conversation, when he was getting off the phone, he said, I love you. And that 12 year old girl said, I love you back. Now, when I hung up that phone, the president came back. And when I said, I say that I kicked, I screamed, I yelled, I felt disgusting. I was, I cried for like hours. I got in the trunk of my car. It was like I was being raped all over again. And then I couldn't believe that I had allowed myself. Instead of cussing his ass out. That's the first thing I would think. I went straight back to that little girl. And that's where I was for almost three hours. Since you have his number now, do you ever feel like... I don't have his number. No, because he called you. So you... I don't have it though. Yeah, but how do you deal with now with the man that you're with? Touching you? No, you're like counter-reacting those triggers because of sex. Does that... Does that anyway kind of... Do you ever think of the time that you went through? No. How do you block that out? It's a different person. Okay. So like I said, when I was raped, and here's another thing. I left home when I was 15. So I've been on my own since I was 15. I'll be 50 next year. And even though I left home at 15, I was still being raped. So I was 18. Yeah, because I was trying to figure out how you was doing that when you said earlier that you was raped from 12 to 18 by somebody different if you left home. Was he coming over to your apartment? It's normalcy. So my stepfather, my dad was my stepfather. I needed to borrow the car. I needed this. So if I needed that, here, you could have this, but I need this. So it's exchange, being groomed. My dad, I flew home every year for my birthday because I knew I was going on shopping sprees and I knew if I just lay down for however long that took, I was going to have whatever I wanted. You're groomed. It's just like sex trafficking. When your program that way, it's just what you do to survive. It's called surviving. So me and my mom were arch enemies. So as 15 years old, you had no one else to turn to. You do what you do. I wasn't living with either one of them, but when I really needed something, they were just phone call away. Wow. And my dad taught me instead of teaching me how to sign my shoes, my dad would always tell me because of what I have between my legs, I will never go without. Wow. And I didn't. Wow. Wow, that's... Can I see what your dad told you? Yeah, yeah, that's her father. And it becomes a normalized condition as you go through it because you learned, you've been going through something her whole entire life. And so at some point, like you say, later on now, fast forward, you feel like it's God that removed you from all those different things that happen to you. I mean, do you read your word? Do you read the Bible? Not as much as I should. Yeah. And I'm really masking that is because that's what cleansed me. You know what I mean? Just getting the things out of me that had me bound by putting the word of God in me. But here's with me, right? But everybody's different now. I'm going to say that. And you know what I mean? I've actually had several personal experiences where I knew it was him. And does it not the, in my head, like literally leaves circling off the ground, trees, like I've had experiences where you'd be like, this is like a movie. So my personal relationship for God is, man, people that know me and have been around and experienced me just sometimes just shaped. I mean, it's it's really hard to put into words without sounding crazy. Because somebody can say it. Because we believe in, you know, what the word says and we know God can do a lot. So there's nothing that you can say that can surprise us surprises if you think about it. So because she looking at me like, well, the thing I can say is, you know, everybody has everybody. God has a plan and a place for everybody. He even did it in the Word of God when you read it. I mean, you know, Philip and Peter and Andrew and all of them had different ways. Judas definitely had a different way because he was a betrayer. So everybody has a different relationship when it comes to linking to God and the way they react to God. So it doesn't surprise me that you say you have your own way that God and you have a job, you know, y'all kind of job together, you know, that's that's not because I understand that God has he's bigger than what we could ever think I ask. So I don't really ever try to scale what he can do with you versus what he can do with you versus what he do with me. I'm cool with it because I know he God and I know he bigger and better than anything that I could. He's the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. You know what I mean? So I don't have to even I don't play with it when it comes down to the power of God. You know what I'm saying? So and I know he can heal. And if he healed you a certain way and you and you and it's unexplainable and unattainable. I'm cool with that. You know what I'm saying? Because I know he bad, you know what I'm saying? And a lot of people can't deal with that. They can't everybody want to try to figure out a way to look at you and analyze what you went through so they can figure out how to make it their own little thing in their mind to say, oh, I feel this way. Not me. I just know he bad because he been good to me. So I don't have to I don't have to try and everybody analyze stuff differently. Like for me and everything that God's revealed God reveals to me. I like to I read his manual because that's what I call it his manual. So by reading the manual, I learned so much more about steps. I learned about how to decide for certain things. Yes, he'll hit you with certain things. And yes, the devil speaks to you because voices. I do believe in voices because I've also heard and I'll be like, I know that's not God. So you need to just back up, you know, and I'll talk to him. If I'm in the room by myself, I'll talk to him and I'll know. No, not today. Or if it's something that God is telling me because it's something that I know is positive. And I'm like, OK, God, I know I need to do that. I'm going to do it right now. You know what I mean? So everybody, I think everybody here is just are you going to react to it? It depends on which one are you going to react to? Are you able to decipher? Is that from God? Because the devil is very cunning. He'll come to you like it's God, but it's really not. You have to be for me in the word to know, OK, no, no, no, no, that's not him. I got a question when when Sealy was being raped by her father in the movie Color Purple and you've seen that. Did you ever watch the movie? Did you even watch it? Several. OK. You know, I think about that. My triggers are not. It sounds like that personally. It's not even them. I can be driving home. And all of a sudden it just hit you angry and pissed off and start crying. I had to pull over. So it's not I'm I'm in a movie. So the movie is called Scar for Life. The movie was actually we did a play is called Scar for Life. So the movie is a spin off in the play. OK. And the movie the play and movie kind of snippets of my story. And so it's unscripted. And when we got the play, we had like an outline. So we are amateurs to the play and I like unscripted. So we supposed to memorize as we make up. But here's the thing. Given this outline, OK, in this scene, this is what happens. Now, when we begin to add live, which we're reliving our life. For me, that was a trigger. Now I'm back in it. Back in it. We had rehearsal Saturday. And the scene that I had to do was my husband's mistress is which is his agent. It's coming by the house of drop-offs and paperwork. Well, she don't know that I know that they messing around. Listen, when that doorbell went off, I went straight back to when I was with my ex-husband. And unfortunately for her, she wasn't ready for it. Because when I said I unleashed, my hands were shaking. My heart was pounding. And if I could have hit listen, it was just all of that. So for me, this movie, those are triggers because now I'm physically back in it. You're very courageous to even do that because anyone would look at that. I know that the whole movie would be a trigger because you had to go back. It's pros and cons. Me and like, you might not be the greatest actress, but you don't have to relive something and come back into it because they're picking it up like it's real. So anybody watching that movie is going to be like, she's a great actress, but they wouldn't know that she is reliving right what she already went through. And I just posted that too. I was like, well, rehearsal, how it went. Well, I'm not acting. I'm reliving. And even with the play, the husband, I picked my husband and I actually picked the guy that came to my support groups. That was the abuser. So when we rehearsed the play, I would go home with bruises on my body from the play because of him grabbing me and snatching me. Yes. So in the movie, we have a rape scene where he rapes me. And when I received the outline of the script for 48 hours, I was messed up. Yeah. Why didn't you choose for a double for somebody else to act that part? That's not what God said for me to do. Yeah. I just wanted to know because people would think that like for the main fact that you had to go through all of that, some people wouldn't be able to go up there and reenact it. But the one thing about it is I didn't deal with it when it happened. This might be my opportunity to actually deal with it. So you still really haven't. Did you do counseling at all? When my mom and dad and all that. So I went to, I remember going to counseling. I remember the infamous boy-doll, girl-doll. How old were you? I was an elementary. When you went to counseling. And that's all I remember because as a child, you just, you block out, you just want to go home. You just want to be with mom. So you don't remember anything from counseling? I just remember the dolls. And it's so funny because we had a person out here recently who spoke about, and she wants to be a psychiatrist because she said she wanted help against sexual abuse against young kids, only the young kids because she was four when that happened to her. And at four, she remembered, she said she was a brave little kid. She, after it happened, she went home to her mom, told her mom everything that happened. And her mom, you know, sent her off a little bit and went off on whoever or whatever. But so she didn't really feel like something was wrong because she's four years old. So she was telling her about her day, what happened. Right. Anyway, so she said after going through counseling, the counselor kept asking her questions over and over, the same stuff, reliving everything. So for her, she had nightmares continuously after that because she kept reliving it because it's almost like they keep pounding it into her head. Because of all the questions that they would ask. And the positive side of the counseling was they told her to write, write out what, you know, she went through different things. So she ended up becoming a songwriter. So she ended up being a musician because of that. Before that, she wasn't writing, thinking about writing. Right. So that's the positive side of what came out of it. But she can tell you everything about what happened in counseling. And she said no young child should have to relive that every day of their life in counseling. And then to hear you say that you don't even remember everything. I don't even remember it. But she does remember it like that, like it was yesterday. I said, I just, a lot of my past, I don't remember. Well, a lot of times she was questioned by the counseling. She was just a little girl. So it ended up traumatizing her for having to be asked over and over again. This young lady here, she basically went through it and kept going through it. And it became a normalized situation when it wasn't normal. She had to, in her mind, make it a normalized situation where, you know, nobody should have to bear that burden. And nobody should have to go through that. But like, again, I say dope because of the fact that how you can help people who are going through situations, you know, that's a dope thing. I mean, kudos to you. I mean, and I hate you had to go through it. I do. But at the end of the day, I know that you're going to, God's going to use you like he's already doing in a miraculous way. Where can we find that the movie, is it going to come out mainstream or is it going to come out as a play? Where is it? Because I would definitely want to watch it. It's already been, it's scarred for life. Scarred for life, guys. The play is already, we did the play in 2019 and then COVID hit. So we didn't get to do the touring and all that. So now we're, we're just starting rehearsing for the movie this past week. And when is the movie coming out? It takes a little time. Yeah, I have, honey, I have no idea. Maybe they're going to have to watch it. But you have a TV show as well, don't you? We do. We have a TV show called We Are Survivors TV. Where can they find that? And it's actually on Rukku and FMDGlobalTV.tv. Okay. And how can people get ahold of you? Like if they want to reach out to you in the Foundation Survivors Foundation, how can they, how can they get a, you know, what's the number? Well, for the email address. The email address is WeAreSurvivorsFoundation at gmail.com. Okay. And then the phone number is 2149665152. That's actually my business number versus the foundation. So if you want to get ahold of us, do it by the email address. And Instagram, are you guys on Instagram or Facebook? It's We Are Survivors. You can either do We Are Survivors on Facebook. You see the We Are Survivors, and then we have We Are Survivors Foundation, and then we have We Are Survivors TV show. Well, you have a remarkable story. And I just want to say thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. But I'd like to ask you a little bit more about your foundation, because I was reading on your site the different things that you do help people who come to you, because tell us about what the foundation does for someone. So if somebody sees this show and say, okay, I would love to reach out to her and reaches out to you, what can they expect? Well, it actually really depends on the situation and the scenario, and if they're coming for personal help, or if they're coming to work with us, because We Are Survivors is actually international. I've been blessed to travel to Germany, Finland, Africa, and London. Did I say that already? So we're actually working on building a shelter in Nigeria right now. So it really depends on what they're coming to do, or they're coming to work with the foundation, or they're coming to work on the TV show, or they're coming because they need help themselves. Okay, so if they need help, what do they expect from you? Now, we have an ordained minister. So if you need spiritual guidance, prayer, we can offer that. If you need counseling, I am a therapist, so we can offer that. We have connections with people that if you need, like I know an organization that provides one-way tickets, like if you're really serious, of course it's a process. But if you're in a situation where you're trying to escape, you have somewhere to go, but there's no money that's available, so we have a contact that you can work with. Unfortunately in Dallas County, beds are full, and so we do work around calling, trying to find places. We have some contacts with women who have homes. I kind of call it the Underground Railroad. That's what I was thinking about, because I remember I was mentioning the movie Enough, and that's what they did to get that help. I was just wondering if anybody can get that help here. Thank you so much, Dr. Wanda McKinley. I appreciate you for coming on Boss Talk 101. Thank you. We needed this. We're going to see a lot of people, we're going to see this and hear this on our podcast, and they're going to get healing. We believe that. So, you know, I know God is big enough for the job. We're just vessels. He used us, and we're pretty much used of him to help others. He worked through people, and you're one of his angels. Thank you for coming on the show. And I would love to volunteer. Say, man, check it, man. It's been another great segment of Boss Talk 101. And we out.