 Can you guys hear me? Okay. Good. All right. I'll try to keep speaking up So here's the title of the talk how to make more time and money with proven outsourcing And there's a whole lot of tips in here about how to just work with people All right, not necessarily as people on your staff, but family and all that stuff. All right I'm Dave as you probably know by now So I live in Irvine, California been married for 35 plus years wife and two kids daughter-in-law I was a semiconductor engineer and corporate executive for 30 years Managing teams from across the globe I've got six patents, which is pretty cool And I've done WordPress for about five plus years been programming all my life. I've done a couple of iPhone apps With my business partner can't see him down here. Larry We've coached hunter plus entrepreneurs and different types of businesses technical non-technical all that and that's a lot of fun and I've all into here in the local jail ministry down in Orange County We don't have prisons there as it was jails and we go in and take church services to them. So it's a blast Okay Questions if you guys have questions I'll take them at the end because I got a lot of stuff to go through here, but I'm here all day today Lunch is coming up Grab me buy me lunch out here Yeah, on you all obviously and then But I'm here all day and I'll give you a link to the slides at the end So you don't have to take pictures or anything and and while you're going through this You're gonna write some stuff down. Don't write down as much of what I say But write down how it comes across to you. What makes sense to you, okay? Because I've had you as you come out of this you can get a whole bunch of information But maybe take one or two or three things With you from the talk. All right All right, here's the overview of what we're going to talk about true business definition What it is why you should outsource and to whom and a process, okay? Now how many of you guys here are solo printers? All right How many you guys work with the team or have a team under you few of you, okay? All right good So the true business definition I got heard it from Dan Locke Years ago and I thought a lot about it a business isn't a profitable enterprise that works with or without you That works as well for nonprofits Okay, so the key point of this is the without if you want to build a business You need to have it run without you because the value of your business is Obviously the revenue and the profits it brings in But to somebody buying it. It's the certainty of that revenue And if you're if they're buying it from you, you're not going to be there, okay? So it's one of things to think about is your solopreneur, but Where where do you want? How do you want to exit this because at some point in your life? You're going to exit your business you could close it down You could sell it give to your kids or whatever, but if you really want to build a business I'm assuming most of you do that's why you're here spending a lot of time Then you're going to want to think about how to get it to work Pretty well, you know without you takes a long time, but it can be worth it So why outsource this is the way you know all the marketing charts and sales charts and all this stuff go your business on an upward trajectory revenue profit whatever What you expect in the future is it's going to keep going up. Okay, that's how we plan We think we're going to live forever all that stuff Okay Now to get it to go up. Here's some possibilities. You're going to have to get more clients Better clients new services new products raise pricing The thing is though is all of those things are going to require time Or they have limits to them for example more clients You can only handle so many clients right Raising raise pricing You can't you it's hard to charge a hundred thousand dollars for a website There's a few out there that very few that you could do right I'm guessing most of the people in this room aren't going to charge that. I don't certainly don't charge that So you can only raise pricing so much So the question ends up being how do you continue to grow? So we talked about your business what you expect to go up But what can happen is you get a disruption? All right, especially if you're sold for new on your own You get a disruption. What could those be? well That's my wife down here in an emergency room and you know, I've been married 35 plus years you saw that One of the reasons is because I ask ahead of time if I could do something like this Show her in laying in the emergency room. She said she said yeah, but don't count on 36 years of marriage. No So two weeks ago yesterday, we were in the emergency room room Hoke Hospital Irvine She ended up having an emergency appendectomy that night Okay, and If you're married You're gonna be the primary caretaker for your spouse Or that could be you. Okay, so what's gonna happen to your clients? What's gonna happen to your business? If something like this happens because it will happen at some point it happens to everybody now They had decent Wi-Fi here. I could keep up on stuff But there's no way that I could concentrate and really develop a lot of a lot of you know high-level sites Or whatever right and I was very distracted So we talked about a potential medical issue that could have to be being a disruption in your business You want to take a vacation? Right, but you still want to have the income coming in right you could get burnout for a while you could say oh my gosh I'm just so tired of all these clients. I got to take a break. I don't know if that's ever happened to any of you Yeah, there you go happens. It does happen You could have an accident Family requirements as my wife could be your kids could be your elderly parents. This is something that happens Or say you just want to volunteer you want to volunteer and speak at a word camp someday All right, this takes time. You got it plan your business. So these you still have income enough to handle that All right great quote by Steve Jobs great things in business are never done by one person They're done by a team of people so it depends upon you Do you want to do great things with your life and with your business? Do you want to really make a big difference? To people in their businesses, you know you think about I mean for me one of the things is when I do somebody's website and they love it and everything they're proud of it I mean that makes me feel good Part it partly that but the other thing is I know that that's a 24-7 salesperson. That's right there for them Hopefully bringing in them in money, but at least giving them leads or whatever 24-7. Okay So build a team. How are we going to do this? Build a team fulfills the true definition of a business You build your team right you can You know then you can take some time off. All right, it allows for expansion Mitigates the impact of life events and it will give you a life Okay, question is how how do we afford it and Where are you going to start if you're even thinking about this because at some point even if you're new to WordPress You're just here for the first time ever. You're just learning You're gonna you're gonna get to a point where you're pretty good at it, right? It's not gonna take five years plus like it took me you guys are probably gonna do it, you know a lot quicker So you may want to you know expand and do more serve more people serve more clients. So where are you gonna start? How do you manage that team and thrive? How do you manage yourself? So the question is what's the right process? Okay, so a lot of stuff that I'm gonna talk about Here today works with anybody doesn't matter what part of the country? What part of the world that they're from it works with anybody if you're hiring somebody local from another country, okay? so one of the things you look at this global map is these are approximate monthly salaries of Virtual assistance on all in the range of the like a general developer, etc. Okay, so you can see us is around 50,000 a year 4,000 a month Australia's more It should be less they're down under right? I don't know why there's so much But then you can see the different Amounts India 800. I've been in India a few times worked with those guys and and gals very closely It's great Philippines 400 a month. Well, can we target them? In fact, that's what we one of the things we do Some of the advantages of the Philippines are they work hard they speak English really well Which is an issue on some of the other countries? They're very family oriented. They they want to have some stable income. They want to be with you for a while Okay, so there's some really good advantages with them and plus when you think about it They're about a tenth of the cost of what it would cost somebody here local, okay? So here's a few monthly salaries average so you see the number there the left is Kind of the average and then there's a range obviously that range is going to be based upon their expertise their experience, okay? so a general VA 500 SEO expert 600 average graphic designer 640 now again, there's a lot a wide range web designer is that much? video editor Copywriter and yes, you can get quality people doing all of these things One of the ladies on our team that works for us sometimes is she does blog writing for us She's really good and and one of the things to think about too is that as you outsource to anybody here wherever a Lot of times it's not going to get to be like a hundred percent the way you want it and that's okay if they Can get you say you know 90% of the way there That saves you just a ton of time and effort, okay? I'll talk a little bit about one of the big advantages that you get once you start outsourcing where anywhere So the young lady on the left. She's my general virtual assistant. She's been her name's Daphne She's been with me for almost four years now she's she's she's awesome and This guy here is Brian and he's been with me almost three years. He's my developer He does some stuff that I can't do and I do stuff that he can't do so we're a good team So just to give you an example of some of the things on of Daphne's recent work here. She's done site maintenance for me Preparing Monthly reports that we have for our clients. She's entered blog posts provided by a client Dunham gotten them done out of the way She's designed sample pages For a client as well. She designs. She actually does our websites are our design Much better than me. She's done competitive analysis for me, right? I'm thinking about offering up a new service That's an important thing if you want your New service or your new product to be successful. You need to do a competitive analysis You need to know what everybody's doing out there She did she did graphics for our website she actually created this slide deck Okay I don't know if you guys have ever heard a new robot ninja every evening you guys have heard that at all Okay, one guy. It's a it's there's a free version that gives you a pretty decent amount of Weekly testing of a WooCommerce site If there's something that's wrong, they'll email you it's it's a nice free tool And it costs if you want to have them do the whole thing But if you're gonna have a major WooCommerce client By get the pay for it, but if not even You know for anybody just it gives you at least a little bit of confidence that that WooCommerce site is is working well because that's a Yeah WooCommerce you got to make sure that that's working well because if it doesn't if there's a problem That affects your clients income. That's and that's important. Okay Yeah, when I say to actually done it twice She's tested opt-ins on our website you guys make sure that you have those so you can capture leads capture People coming in I think there's some talks about that too She's compared reports for a couple of maintenance services like the reports we get from WPM you or iThemes sink She's compared those She's filtered through so we have one client that we're doing the website now for that's get they gave us We asked for a bunch of pictures. They gave us like 200 which is awesome, but what do we use on the site? So I say Daphne go filter these see what you think because you did the overall Design from a graphics perspective Why don't you go through and look at some of those pictures and tell me which ones you want then we can have the client Rename them appropriately so that when we upload them there they automatically get the alt tags for a proper SEO Okay All right, so like I said for any VA you want to get or just anybody That you have on your team you've got to do a process of preparation and typically that will you'll go through that once Then you're gonna want to hire and then thrive a lot of people end up Just saying I want to hire somebody right I got to get somebody I know what I need I want to get somebody they forget about how to make this relationship thrive and they forget to prepare themselves To understand what they really really need okay We're gonna talk about all three of those real quick All right, so prepare a Lot of that preparation is about yourself right you want to discover your strengths the way that you naturally work And that gives you energy etc. You want to discover your personality? Ideally you create your vision in your mission Your vision is the desired end state an example is clean water for everybody right something like that You know and then creating your mission why you exist? I mean on the hundreds thousands of developers and companies out there. Why are you doing what you're doing? right and It's and it's really important because once you create these things It helps you through the tough times which are gonna come when you don't feel like doing it Well, you know when the the client calls and complains or whatever you got to go back and say why in the heck Am I still doing this stuff? Hopefully that vision and mission you create is pretty compelling for you You also want to create your core values if you're gonna build a team and I suggest doing it early Even before you're gonna build your team create your core values How how are you going to govern what you do with your clients with yourself? Right once you do that then that's that's incredibly important To create the culture in your business so knowing yourself and what you're trying to build foundational Culture is critical if you don't build it intentionally in your business right now Whoever you bring on in the future They're gonna be the ones that are gonna create it or your customers are gonna create it for you You've got to decide what do you want in your culture? Yes, yeah, all of these I'll give you the link at the very end for all the slides. Oh Yeah, oh, yeah, oh So for example, I'm the core values that I have in my business are Grace greatness growth grins because we like to have fun right and Geez I've forgotten them myself. What's the last one? Oh genuine Then by the way I review this with my team every week not just for them, but for me So genuine we want to be genuine. We want want to be authentic with our clients Okay So here's a vision example is this is what ours is I Drove myself Great book draw to win great book. I'm still going through it so Hopefully you kind of get the idea ball and chain. Here's a person going upstairs for his potential Every entrepreneur free to unleash their true potential. That's a vision. That's what we want to see it's what I want to see as the CEO of my business and so by knowing that it governs The things that I do for example every entrepreneur free to unleash their true potential by me presenting this stuff to you guys That I'm hoping to help be able to unleash your potential because your potential is a lot more than doing a website on your own It really is okay And maybe that's all you want and that's cool, but you just have to decide where you want to go so preparation One of the best things to do is I I've got my journal over there But I write down. That's okay. Thanks I just write down all the stuff that I do every day check them off You know, I'm a sucker for to-do list and I like the emotional feeling of check that off. Yeah, it's done So you write down everything that you do and you should be doing so I can go back and look at that stuff and Then you what you do is map it to the next page Okay, so what that does is get you on the road to developing a base requirements for Getting a virtual assistant. So here's the virtual freedom exercise template inspired by Chris ducker so the first one is You write down everything I hate doing or don't like to do or what drives me nuts You guys probably have a few of that a few of those things in your business I'm gonna have to go over here. I can't read it So blog post formatting and I just write in what I'm doing about it here There's a little bit ago So Daphne's doing it blog post picture creation and formatting getting at the right size making it look good. Ah I Don't know about you guys. I hate social media. I just I hate it and I still have an issue I I got to get on social media. I just got to Preparing email marketing emails. She's doing she's doing that. I write it out and then she she prepares it. So it looks good Okay, the next column is what I don't know how to do or can't do or things that could be completed faster by someone else I'll wrap that better by someone else or am I cutting costs by dabbling outside of my expertise? You guys are all smart people. I'm really smart. We can all do anything But should we do everything right So graphic editing I can do okay at that But I'm never gonna get to be on a scale of zero to ten to be a ten. That's just not gonna It's just not me. All right, so I have Daphne doing it Java JavaScript For whatever reason I don't do well. I do PHP CSS HTML is great Facebook ad management if I want to do that complex plugins I mean, I'm okay, but It's just not the great. I'm not the greatest so everything I feel I should not be doing That's the third column. What do you feel like you should not be doing? I wrote down working on an hourly basis all the time making sure that I I do service-based packages and stuff Check checking and scheduling social media. All right And there's other things that I can delegate, you know my account and work. I've done a little bit of that legal stuff I Shouldn't be like searching the web looking for contracts all that kind of stuff. Just it's just silly for me to do that So I actually have an outside service do that for So the idea then is so that's that's the first row the next and your preparation time is You want to do you want to look at what you want to do more of what I like to do What gives me energy what I do that puts me into a zone? What makes you guys? You're sitting down doing something and you haven't gone to the bathroom for half a day or you forgot to eat What is what are those things? That's what one of the things you want to do more up, right? So for me, I love to learn. I love you know just general website work. I love collaborating with my team and solving a problem Putting our website together. We did it last late yesterday afternoon My Brian my develop and I we were together on a zoom call for four hours dividing and conquering and just getting it all done I Do love to code certain areas, right? So what am I good at in other words? What is it that I play at that other people have to work at okay? What kind of comes naturally to me, right? And so I have a few things. I love systems, etc Recording out to videos. That's fun, right But then what I really should be doing as a business owner or in my position That's that's a very important thing to make sure that you have a handle on right so as a business owner There's a big part of what you need to do in sales and marketing doing and what I should do is come up with better Systems tracking finance and all that kind of stuff right measuring things Creating new and better offers products executing ideas negotiating deals public speaking from the owner I really should be doing that Okay There's a blank template that you can you can grab once you get the slides Okay So then when you hire some of this is obvious, right? You're gonna post an application, but some things that aren't as obvious is you want to filter people, right? You make them jump through a few hoops Okay, because they're right especially now a lot of people will look at an application They'll just throw stuff in there. Let me give you one hint is What we did with our application our recent one is we told them at the very bottom of the application And this is where my developer. He had that idea Brian at the very bottom of the application we said if you You're interested in this put the word Batman in the subject line About half of the people responded no Batman Yeah, so it's like if I'm gonna hire somebody do I want attention to detail they're not gonna read the whole thing Like why do I want to talk to him? Why do I want to consider them? Okay? So interviewing obviously gonna interview you need to do two ways right one is skills-based and one is behavioral Any you guys have heard of behavioral interviewing before Okay, anybody want to say what it is if they recall I know I'm putting you on the spot So the idea Well, and that's and that's yeah, that's part of it That's part of it Well, what behavioral interviewing does is it it's a way of predicting How they're how they do something in the past is the way that they're gonna do it in the future So you might ask him a question is tell me about a time in your life and your work or whatever Where you've solved a difficult problem Describe to me all the steps that you do right and then a lot of times they'll say well Here's what I would do if I had a problem I do this and this and you say no no no no tell me about a Specific time all the things that you did right because if they behave that way in the past It's very very very likely. They'll do it that way in the future. Okay? Yeah, I mean that that's great. Tell me about a time all right give me an example you always ask for that So then there's three this from my business partner Larry There's three things you want to consider when you're hiring somebody motivation Integrity and capacity you look at the center of that you want to make sure that they've got all three so for an example If they have motivation and a lot of capacity ability to do a lot of work, but they don't have integrity Guess what? They're gonna screw you over right If they have integrity and a lot of capacity, but they have no motivation You know they just won't execute right even though they have the capacity, okay? So you need all three of these together So capacity we're going to talk about this a little bit. I'll start over here So vertical axis is their skill level Horizontal is time. This is just an example of a day 60 day 60 when they start off working for you day zero There'll be initial skills now We're going to talk about like how much work they can get done in the area in the graph But at day zero one person has this level of skills that you need the other has this level Okay, now ideally you want the highest skill level, but it may not necessarily be true So they start off this level So you have somebody that maybe not have as much capacity Person a but at day 60 they're here and they're going up and they're improving their skills But if you hire somebody that may not have as many skills at the beginning, but a lot of capacity Month two months or whatever They're gonna out. They're gonna exceed what the other person can do Okay, so when you're hiring It's it's the capacity because it mean if you think about it you hire somebody who's got Who's brilliant? You know, but they don't know HTML. This is an extreme example, but they don't know HTML How long do you think it'll take them to really learn it and become pretty good at it, right a few weeks? But if they're if they're brilliant Okay, sometimes sometimes clients will make the mistake of saying I need expertise in a page builder. I Need expertise in Elementor or beaver builder. Well It that probably doesn't really matter as long as you may have some experience in a page builder You can you can catch up and get the other one Pretty quick Okay, so then when you hire somebody VA you make sure you have them sign a contract So that they understand what they're doing now It's not going to be in for you're not going to enforce it if something goes bad Nobody's going to sue anybody, but it just sets the expectation up front that you're serious about your business You're serious about the relationship Managing it having it start off in the right foot. Okay The first couple weeks are Critical, okay So when you're hiring somebody you want to blow the whistle early and hard in a way It's it's it's kind of like Raising kids in all and in certain aspects This is a picture of a soccer referee I was a soccer referee for five years Because I had no idea what soccer was like the rules when my kids were in it. I said, oh, I better learn it That's the best way to learn it being a ref, right? So what I but one of things that I learned is at the beginning of a match The beginning of the match, you know, there's these these especially the guys as they get older They can get pretty rough. They can get pretty Mean with each other So what I did is as soon as a little blown the whistle they started with the ball Soon as I saw any little tiny infraction that would not affect an advantage give them an advantage either way one little tiny infraction I blow the whistle It's probably a Fox 40 whistle. It's loud as heck and I blow it and they'd be oh I'd say all right watch it. You don't want to hear it anymore. Don't do it this way and It helped the entire match. Okay, so that's what you want to do when you're managing a person a new new person that comes on watch close Okay, so I When the things that you're going to do as a leader and you're a leader in any air so many areas of your life with your family We're you volunteer You're a leader. There's no question about it. Right? You're a leader in your business. You're leading your clients, right? You want to be clear on but in within your team you want to be clear on the priorities, okay? Working as a Engineer in a semiconductor company. I remember some of our bosses. I'd say, you know what? You've assigned us these five programs. What's the highest priority? Guess what he would say? All of them. Well, what was he doing? He was abdicating his leadership responsibility and putting it on me to decide What was the highest priority? All right, so you don't want to do that as leader because otherwise your VAs are going to decide that All right, you want to gradually increase trust you I mean you think about Can you imagine giving somebody especially even from another country or another part of the the part of this country or anywhere else Root access to your server Yikes So there's times when you you do that. I've done that Our developer has it now, but he's been with me for you know three years, right? So you gradually increase trust We had a client who For whatever reason she hired a new new developer a first-time ever ever and She gave him Her login ID her user ID and her password took a couple of sites And I'm like, why would you ever do that? I couldn't figure that out. I just I still can't to this day But she did that and it's okay right now. It's turned out okay because She went and hired the person who's who's got a lot of integrity So she she took care of that but everything is fine But you want to gradually increase trust and you want to communicate often We have a weekly meeting with our team we want to do that in any business sometimes Maybe necessary to do a daily meeting a little scrum stand up You want to give and receive feedback okay, you want to obviously say how Things are going well not maybe not quite so well But you want to be open and let them give you feedback because we all need to improve if we have time at the end I'll give you two questions that you can use to improve yourself and in any way Any in any phase of your life? I'll give you two questions Question will be though for you as would you have the courage to ask those so remind me of that at the end Thrive continuous training right? You guys are here awesome. It's what you should be doing continuous training your Assistants have to be trained as well right things are changing very very quickly Anybody here was very happy with Gutenberg and all that stuff that rolled out well that Yeah, that those the change happened pretty quick And then if you are running any kind of a business you need to record videos on everything because the Attitude you want to have is you want to act as if you want to hire 50 people Tomorrow and have them productive right away right because if you're going to go down the road of hiring somebody They can leave right they can get sick and You want to be able to get somebody up to speed as quick as possible plus If you're building a business and you want to have a good exit plan someday You've got to have this as it's really intellectual property documenting your process And you're the way to do things because then you could sell your business and somebody else could pick it up pretty quickly It's about there's value there Okay, you want to spend time on your business take a look at the emith. I don't know if you guys have ever heard of that at all Okay, great book. I can't remember the author But it's awesome It talks different talks about the difference between working in your business and on your business Okay, I'll give you a little hint here coming up All right, we're almost done So this came from a Brian sure and I had Daphne create this nice meme for me so I could remember it So the entrepreneur of golden rule never do anything you can pay someone else less money to do But what does that really mean? It means only spend time developing and refining your systems and Generating generating revenue through sales and marketing systems, right? And systems are training others to do things that are paid less than you through checklist procedures training and practice role-playing Don't get caught up in the trap of trying to do it all yourself and thinking you're saving money because you're not You're not if you if you can shift between editing CSS on your site all of the time changing it versus Deciding what and working on a new product in your in your business That's going to get you more revenue and help you as your company make a bigger difference out there All right, so the one takeaway for you guys to have on this Yeah, that's why I ended started and ended with this Business is a profitable Enterprise if I can say that business is a profitable enterprise that works with or without you Otherwise you've really got a job and that may be okay, or it may not be okay It's just important for you to have the self-awareness of what you want to do There's the slides are my VA comm slash WC WCS CV That's one thing to write down. Hmm. I know you can contact me there My company is pro website creators for a web development in contact me there as well, and that's it. We are Almost 1140 questions in back Website translation to different languages, right? I have none Wow Would that be like when you say website translation would that be in a specific language or all of them? Yeah, I would for what depends it depends amount on if you're talking about website translation It depends upon how often I think you're gonna do it the way I would approach it is if this is like a one-time shot for a client Elan elance, but whatever the job outsourcing thing. I do something like that But if it's something that you're saying, okay, we've got a client who needs this site translated into Spanish right but we do one of those every month or whatever it may be worth it But you'd probably want to have to supplement that with may not just be the website But it could be translation of marketing material or email follow-ups all that kind of stuff, too So I think it depends upon how often you do it if the language is gonna be the same every time. I Know there's translation plugins. They can be done for websites, and they do they do decent Okay, yeah Yeah, so So yeah in that case you would have to you're gonna validate in a language that you don't speak or not familiar with Then you'd have to hire one person that seems pretty good But you've got to find somebody else to do a check until you until you trust because you're right You really don't know You don't know so you've really got to do a two to two phase kind of validation And there's and there's lots of there's lots of kids at schools who speak different languages Especially I mean you live in the place where you can probably find somebody You know within a few miles to speak of any language, you know It's out there Upwork And Yeah, and you could end and well like we're talking about you could hire two different people and see how they translate it Go ahead But I do have a question for you do you require your virtual assistants to sign Non-compete or commitment agreements so that you don't find for example someone taking on two different jobs How do you how do you handle that? Yeah, you can't prevent it. There's no way to prevent it But what we say up front is we want depending upon what you're doing we We advocate Hiring full-time the reason is because if somebody is part-time Then they've got likely more than two clients and Then guess who's gonna get the most energy and effort a client that screams the loudest So what we we talk about hiring part-time only if you're really confident that that's an Exclusive part-time work like like Daphne for me. She first started out 20 hours That's all she wanted to work now. She's like 30 hours So she's not totally full-time, but we're exclusive and so that's one things that you want to emphasize To people that you hire as a virtual assistant because of that You know you competing with another person But you you know you can't prevent them from doing something else on the other side on the side Hopefully if they do something on the side, you know, maybe it is building their own business doing something else That wouldn't necessarily compete with you But in that case, hopefully you hire somebody that is you know pretty open with you And you would encourage them to talk about it because maybe you want to help them as a business owner I mean why not? You can how do you handle working with someone who's in a completely, you know, office of time? Okay, well good question. So it's tools and time zone. So tools is a Lot of the people we work with use Trello for the task management type of thing and then slack for daily communication And there's probably other ones out there. That's what most people do there. They use the free versions We use base camp Because base camp is more of an all-in-one. You have different projects and you can do your chat and all that and then as far as Communication goes we use zoom for our calls We get on And you can use Skype a lot of people use Skype and then then the other question was about the hours Believe it or not. There are people that do their best work in the evenings or Very early in the mornings Some people like if you're on the east coast, it's like the Philippines is basically 12 hours. That's tough But what you have to decide up front is what overlap do you want? Like for me we've recent and it's a an adjustment process like for Brian. He was falling asleep sometimes Because he was working and there's a middle of the night and it wasn't just that it didn't happen at the beginning But he had other things going on in their life in his life that he had to deal with during the day So we changed it to our he starts at 2 p.m. Approximately 2 p.m. Our time and works till I Tell him I want 2 p.m. The 5 p.m. Or 6 p.m. To be the minimum overlap times the rest of the time just work Whatever you want Yeah, so Like we use online jobs dot ph That's what we use a lot, but you can sometimes you can use virtual staff finder. There's other ones out there but one of the first things we do is They send us an email right say it has Batman in the subject line or we change it to Superman pick your favorite comic character, right? And they do that right and then I respond with them and I say okay Here's my key requirements. Are you okay with that meaning overlap these hours this amount of pay range daily reporting and We might have something else in there to communication with zoom or whatever right and if they respond yes Well, I'm okay with that All right. Good then we look and see what they're what the salary is that they wanted on their Profile because sometimes they'll say the salary is okay But if the salary that they have on their profile that they want way exceeds what I can offer Then we may talk to them But that goes on the back burner because what I'm afraid of is that if somebody Takes the job because you know they need jobs over there Somebody takes the job, but then on the side. They're going to be looking for somebody else to pay them more Right and so they may leave quick So I don't want to have that happen, but that would be but if their qualifications are great Still may interview them and try to understand why because sometimes they put that in there thinking Well, I just want to get that much, but I don't have to have that much Good questions Go ahead. So in this scenario like hiring would it be appropriate to ask one of these You know someone to do like a developer test of some sort Mm-hmm Yeah, so so here's the thing is the way you want to test is I mean ideally you don't want to test You don't want to test on things that are going to happen. I don't have a disagreement with this with some folks, but It's like a website goes down. You have you know 500 internal server, right? Oh, can you debug that and find out what's wrong? Well I mean that that is a test in a way, but how often does that really happen to somebody? I don't want to base my decision on Having them complete a task that's rarely going to happen All right, or That they can search and find the solution pretty quick I mean I want to base it on do you know Here's here's a here's a side note um You know, I've taken a bunch of different courses on programming language and stuff So many of them make the there. Here's the biggest mistake that I think that they all make in those courses And if you're going to take a course look for this, they don't teach you how to debug The first thing that they should do is say here's how to do something But when something goes wrong like we talked about leaving out a semi-colon or putting the you know the the The apostrophe, right? How do you figure that out? Right, how do you do you have a way to step through the code to see what line it is? Right. I told you I did some ios apps They're the apple tools are brilliant in that, you know, you step through your code and see what's wrong. So So that's what you want to try to understand How they think through things and how they can figure it out and you can when you're giving them a skills test Ask them to do whatever you want and then you might ask them to Say okay take five minutes or 10 minutes to search the web and find it because that's that's what's practical, right? It's not necessarily what they remember at the time because They they did it three years ago It might it's more like how fast can you figure out the solution and get it and get it done. But yeah, it's totally appropriate um Like we had one person who applied for a job Who didn't even know how to use at all or didn't even know it was available the debugger in the browser I mean didn't even know how to right-click and do inspect and to be able to use that well to me That's like wow. That was pretty basic So they were no Okay, one more go ahead So, um excellent presentation lots of great points And it sounds like you've had an You know an exceptional experience by outsourcing I've had exactly the opposite. Okay Nothing but failure. Okay Not on people that I have vetted or hired But I've had clients come to me and say we have this fellow that updates our website these disappears I've had a psychotic breakdown by one of the guys Running into a forest never to be seen again Another one was an unconvicted murderer Who ended up confessing to the death of his sister? I mean I can do you know And I have so I don't do any outsourcing now. Okay My clients get fed up with it and they come to me and say this guy's disappeared He's just left the planet. We need to update our website and then I take over the site. Yeah extracting the responsibility of editing a site from somebody who is Seven ten twelve time zones away can take a lot of time So be very careful if you choose to do this folks and vet these people Yep, then that's why And that's why most of the time when people try to find people like that they'll skip remember those those that then diagram Right, they'll skip that motivation and integrity part right when we've had clients come to us It's like, you know my developer skipped out on me. So that so that's those are great points Here's another great point though. It happens here as well anywhere My wife, um, she works at non-profit the leading non-profit education non-profit in california third ranked in the country as far as um Revenue and she had an executive assistant Um was working out great. Do you remember the um, it didn't turn out this bad But remember the los vegas shooting a year a year and a half ago She was there she was running and somebody got shot next to her All right, so she ended up having post-traumatic stress And having to take time off a significant time off and then she eventually left she just wasn't It was hard for her to get the same my wife, you know, they have Living her vine right and their people that are sick like crazy right now I mean, it's just it's just people. It's just life It really is Sometimes hard to find really good people Um, my brother-in-law works for federal federal express. He has worked for them for 40 plus years. He has cases Uh, he um, he used to train. It'd be a station manager and train people. He's an hr now But he has um, they've had situations where they hire somebody train him for six or eight weeks to drive a truck and deliver But then something would happen And then what they would do middle of the day Pull the pull the truck onto the side Pull out the key give them a call and say I put your key over here. I'm quitting Right right So Yeah, I I I hear what you're saying outsourcing is not for the faint of heart. It isn't but It does take some time, but it depends upon what you want to do, right Um, I want to produce amazing results for my clients. I want to produce Um, great websites. I want to expand my capability. I need help Um in what I do. I am I I'm weak in so many areas I want to create a team that That that can do amazing stuff And and we do we do but but like you said it has taken me some time the first developer I hired Oh my gosh, he he just took forever to do things and finally took me a while to let him go No That's that's a legal liability I don't know why Well, the other thing too is You that can you've heard of all the stuff about people taking twitter Accounts down within companies that exist in the united states as well, right? So that can happen with anybody that you hire number one number two You have to gradually increase trust with people number three is you need to make sure you've got good backup solutions So those types of things um Really can't happen now Anytime you are going to give up control if you want to build a business There's no question that there is a risk that somebody could really screw you over There's that risk, but it just depends upon what you want to do, right? Do you want to build a business that makes a big difference for clients? that um You may have a problem here and there But and I know there's stories out there of all that stuff happening But I tell you the difference that some of this stuff is making to some of our clients the people that we've worked with I mean, it's freeing up their lives to be able to do other things We have a one one lady had just helped to get a developer She has a small small son is going to get pregnant again. She needs somebody to help her While she's going through all that um And so for me those are risks. I want to take there's risks everywhere Just getting in your car driving may get hit by a drunk driver, right? But you don't not drive There's risks in everything you want to you want to you want to build a great business You want to be a great person you want to do amazing things for your clients I mean, there's a risk Absolutely, what are you going to do to your what is your client going to say when You're you're in the hospital because of an appendectomy and they need to change on their site That's not going to go well. What are your two questions you talked about the beginning? Oh, I'm glad you're reminding me Okay, yeah, we should probably done we'll end with this. Okay. All right Uh two questions now you have to have the courage to do this That'll help you in any relationship that you have okay the first question this came from jack canfield The first question is Uh, what's your name or in velgrade or in nice to meet you. All right, so imagine that I'm your boss All right So or and I ask you I'm your boss say or in I really need you to give me an honest answer to this Because if you don't give me an honest answer to these two questions, it's not going to help me Okay, would you do that for me or all right? So on a scale of zero to ten How would you rate me as a boss? Ten being best boss in the entire world Zero being worse. I need you to be honest. There's no repercussions or anything. I need you to be honest How would you rate me? Well, I can't rate you because you haven't I haven't seen your capabilities Give me give me a seven seven. Okay, great. Okay, great I'm a seven I'm a seven so then or in your mind what what I need to do To move from a seven to ten Bring in more work. Okay, there you go. You can do this with your spouse You can say like I said if you have the courage Honey, you know, I really want to be a better husband or I want to be a better wife How would you rate me as a husband on a scale of zero to ten ten being like out of this world? See what I mean. Do you have the courage to do that? I've done that But you got to be in mentally you got to be in receive mode to do this All right. Yeah Okay Taxes work You they're an they're an independent Yeah, they're an independent contractor if they're if they're in another country You don't really need to do like 1099 or anything. It's really for people here But yeah And I'm around at lunch the rest of the day