 You see, I think there was a kind of contrast, which was, which had been present in the development literature for a very long time. There's one side which is saying, well, development is mainly getting the investment time at right and so forth. And the other is the development is mainly concerned with making human beings both more frequent, more free, more really free, not just freedom as permission, but freedom as real ability to do things that they have reason to value both individually as well as social beings in terms of their contribution to the society. And that includes also participation, public discussion, public reasoning, sharing values, sharing concerns, sharing doubts, and sharing results, and determination. Now I think in this approach, it's interesting that the question of Kerala came up. It was an interesting thing where Kerala, to some extent, reasons of history originally being not a part of the British Empire, being a native empire, native kingdom, the Arangor and Cochin, these were, they could carry some of the different policies in British India and they went for education very early. But even though, even with that, even though the average for Indian education was about, I think, 13% literature when the British left, but the Kerala figure was, well, in the 40s, higher, but not dramatically higher. But then with independence came very big burst in education first, but then on the basis of a nearly universally educated literate population, there was strong pressure for better public health care, and then the health care also became one of the sure pieces of Kerala. At that time, when I was defending it, and there were so many of the people involved and some of them actually in wider defending it, the critique used to be that, well, can a poor country, poor state in this case afford it? The argument was that yes it could, because even though education and health care may look expensive, but they're primarily labor intensive work, and therefore in a poorer country, labor is also cheaper, so that even though even you may need more action, it costs much less in a poorer country than in a richer country. And through this process, economic growth itself would be stimulated. Now the reason why it's worth seeing today is decades have gone by, and Kerala, instead of being one of the poorest countries, poorest states in India, has become one of the richer states. This is, of course, exactly what was anticipated by those who were pushing for that line. It's not that you continue to deny economic growth, but understand that economic growth also depends on the quality of human beings that are being cultivated through a deliberate public policy and social commitment. So now actually sometimes people who look at it say, well, Kerala can afford these things because it is a richer state. But that wasn't where the dialogue was earlier, when the dialogue was about Kerala not being able to afford it, because it's a poor country. But it's delighted that the country stays now, and Kerala being one of the richer states can more easily afford it, and this has happened to some extent in Tamil Nadu, in Himachal Pradesh, and to a varying extent in different parts of India. Similarly, if you look at many other countries, Sri Lanka has been an old example, Costa Rica, many other countries across the world. Brazil, in a very big way, in the under the period of the presidency of Cardozo and later under Lula, converted what was a kind of unnamed growth into a participatory growth. The Brazilian economy with universal health care, close to universal literacy has turned the page in a way the rest of the world, many parts of the rest of the world have not. I think one of the really exciting engagements is how intellectual discussions could make a real difference to the practical world in which we live, and the contrast between practicality and theory, and that's one of the, I think, terrible contrasts, is I think I never lose my enthusiasm for arguing against that, because ultimately there's nothing as important as what we think in determining what we do, what we act, and what kind of lives we end up leading.