 He is an environmental scientist also, an environmental rights advocate and founder of Kisumu BiClub. Kareem Rosanna Evans. Thank you so much. Glad to have you with us. Glad to be here. All right. So let's talk. Tell us what do you do as an environmentalist for someone who just knows that as a profession but doesn't really know what you do. All right. Thank you once again. I'm Bondo Evans, an environmentalist, quite a number of years in this particular sector. So an environment is large. Environment is our surrounding. Environment is what we see every day. So when I talk of environment, in a simple term so that our audience can understand, simply the lake, the land, the ocean, the atmosphere, the air that we breathe, the water that we take, all that is environment. So an environmentalist is someone who actually cares for these things and is at the forefront to ensure that these particular resources that we have within us are conserved, they are managed and they are sustainably utilized. So in a simple term, that is what environment is all about and that is what our conservation is all about. All right. Thank you. Great. And now you have me jaded on, because before we went, you were telling me about how environmentalist, because the environment is broad, now you choose which sector that you want to advocate for. Exactly. No, tell us what exactly you advocate for. All right. So in my sphere, I advocate for a green transport system within the urban centers of Kenya. We know as of now, Kenya has like five cities that we are really proud of and the cities are coming up, towns are coming up with the onset of devolution. So then it is really hectic to manoeuvre this through these towns. And the urban centers are one of the leading environments where pollution is happening at a fast rate with this sort of climate change. Therefore then, as people who are concerned of the environment and are passionate about living in a well, a sufficient, sustainable and living in sanity with nature, then we opted to at least try to address the issues around transport and how can we minimize the pollution that is arising from the transport sector. Then that brought up the need for us to even initiate things like cycling activities to just enable us to pass that conversation of the need for non-motorized transport systems that will now help in even mitigating the effects of climate change. Okay. Before we went yet to now the initiative that you have there, the Kisumu Bi-Club that I understand, and we'll have pictures of that, we'll be putting them on just in a little while. But first tell us what is the importance of this, because you've talked about climate change. Earlier we had COP28 and we know we are all about trying to mitigate the effects of climate change and to be ambassadors of climate change in our own different capacities. So when you talk about the transport system, maybe some people don't understand the effect or the weight that it has on climate change. So what exactly in the transport system really affects climate change? Climate change. Thank you so much yet for that particular question. So we are in the era of transition and globally the global community is trying to transit from fossil fuels to sustainable energy sources. So how does then transport come in? Number one, all actually 99% of our transport systems are run by the fossil fuels. That talks of diesel, petroleum, talk of all these natural gases and all that are extracted from the fossil fuel. And fossil fuel is the leading actually cause of climate change. So in civil terms, climate change is actually the change of weather patterns in the long run that is different from the norm. Like for instance now in January, for instance now we are seeing rain all over and people are wondering, do we even have rain? Now that is exactly what climate change is in simple terms. And this is affecting people a lot, especially in the sub-Saharan Africa. So you find that we are having extreme floods in some areas. Like for instance if you see what happened in the end of last year, we have extreme droughts in some part of the country talking of the Kenyan context. We have places where the heat is just unbearable. Like for instance in the coast, we have pests and diseases that are just thriving because of the change of, they actually pest that thrive because of the change of weather. Yeah, like for instance our bed bugs are really thriving in this particular area. So those people at home, please. Also bed bugs are during the rain season. Sometimes during the rainy season, but again those that thrive during hot temperatures. So that is entirely what climate change is all about. So how does transport come in? So vehicles emit what we know as a black carbon. Black carbon is simply the exhaustive fumes that come from our vehicles. And 38% of the cause of climate change coming from our vehicles. And that is a huge percentage of emission that is affecting our, you know, the ozone layer. Because once the ozone layer is affecting them, that is the whole story around climate change. And then this emission from our vehicles, emission from our motorcycling sector, emission from our industries and all that, they are the major cause. So then why transport, why green transport and why even do we, why are we coming up to even raise this concern? It's because we are trying to reduce that particular usage of fossil fuel as a means to driving our economy, to driving our transport sector. So then once we are able to try and mitigate, we are able to reduce that, then it means by a big percentage, you have really reduced the carbon emission that is coming from our vehicles. And that's why we come in. And that's why we are coming with this concept of green transport. In that, instead of using vehicles that are being run by the fossil fuels, then why can't we use vehicles that can be run even through electricity? We can have vehicles that are run by, from the biofuels. We can have vehicles run by methane gas and all that. And this technology is already here with us, and we need to embrace it as a country. Okay, so we have seen vehicles that are running by electricity. We've seen buses in town, you know, we have seen one or two. When we talk about those that are operating with methane gas or bio gas, do we have them in Kenya? We don't have them in Kenya. In Kenya, our government is really focusing on the electric buses. And we have quite a number of electric buses, and they are with us here. And now we need to embrace them. But we don't have vehicles run by, you know, the biofuels. Actually, for the biofuels, it's actually something that's very new in the market. And even, I don't think it's even in Africa yet. It's just from the developed countries. So it's something that's coming up. Yeah, it's coming up. But the focus currently is electric vehicles. And China is the leading producer of the electric vehicles. But again, even the electric vehicles, there's an impact they have in the environment. So it's a whole debate. It's a whole debate. Yeah, and I wanted to come to that. How safe to the environment are the electric vehicles? And we also have the hybrid, the electric and also operating on fuel. So is that also a solution when we... Do we say that's also mitigating it when you're not using fully petrol? Right. According to the United Nations, there are sustainable goals. Our end goal is to eliminate completely vehicles that are being fueled by the fossil fuels. That is the end goal. So the hybrid is just one that will supplement to some extent. But the intention is actually to scrap away fossil fuel and vehicles. That's why there's so much resources being pumped in manufacturing of electric vehicles. But again, how do we come in, even as this other... Because green transport is a wide, it's actually big. And green transport is not actually only the transport bit. But it involves even how you manufacture these vehicles. Because even the electric vehicles, for instance, are using lithium-based electric batteries. Yeah, and when it gets to the seed, then that's poison. Exactly. And again, the first thing is where do we even get this lithium? Lithium is so much plant in Africa, specifically Zimbabwe. But again, if you look at the communities that are harboring that particular lithium, it's again another story for social injustice that is happening in Zimbabwe and Chile. So those are the things we are trying to say. As much as we are getting to electric vehicles, then we should also consider how we're even manufacturing these particular vehicles, these minerals that are needed in manufacturing the vehicles. And that's where now cycling comes in. Because we are saying electric vehicles as much as they are helping us in mitigating effects. So climate change and helping us reduce the fossil fuels. But we can use other options. We have cycling, for instance. We have vehicles that are fueled by other means. We have vehicles that are fueled by solar. We have solar. We have motorcycles. You've said we have vehicles that are powered by solar. By solar, yeah? They're not in Kenya yet. Africa, not yet, because I've not seen any. We are currently on electric vehicles as a nation and as a continent. But again, that is a challenge to us because I think Africa should also take seriously the issue of research so that we can be able to be also problem solvers and not just recipients. That is another top for another day. So why cycling now? So cycling looks at three different benefits, actually four. So number one is the effect of the emission. So we are saying, take a bicycle, cycle to work. That's a different ideological issue that comes in. People will ask, why would life cycle to work? In fact, one of the main challenges we are facing, one of the main challenges, you want me to cycle to work, I'll get to work, I'm sweaty, I'm sweating and all that. That is number one. And then secondly, with this whole chaos we are seeing on the roads, how safe will I be even on the roads? Those are the issues that are coming up that we need to progress. We have seen a lot of deaths also through cycling. Exactly, through cycling. And the motorcyclists are our number one enemy on the road when it comes to cycling. But we are dealing with them, we are dealing with them. So why cycling? Number one, the reduction on emission. Then number two is the health benefit that comes with cycling. Cycling has a myriad ways of helping you as a person when it comes to your health. From cardiovascular to your weight, to metabolic rate, to helping even in preventing cancerous diseases and all that. And even the air that you breathe. Because once you're cycling, your metabolic rate is fast. So you breathe in and out and that is so important for the body. Okay, so you're physically fit, your health is in check. But how practical is it now? Especially in Kenya, we have countries, especially in the western side, that they have the roads designated places for cyclists. So it's safe. So how practical is it for Kenya before when we get to... This is just no more bike, bicycle, before we get to even the electric and whatnot. So how practical is it? That's the biggest challenge we have as a nation, as a developing nation. Because our focus now is how do we ensure we have plenty of vehicles? Anyone graduating from the university, their first dream is of vehicles. So tell them about cycling, they're like... What do you mean? I've not started since you've been riding. I was so eager to start it with a bicycle. Yeah, so that is the question. Amsterdam is the leading city in the world in terms of cycling, followed by Copenhagen. Amsterdam is in Denmark, Copenhagen. So they are the leading city when it comes to cycling. And a big percentage of people there, including women, people are cycling to work, people are cycling to places and all that. And they have this concept of bike share. Bike share is where you can just wake up, go to the nearby mall, take us a bicycle to town, leave it there. In the evening, you come, take another bicycle, take it, you go to your place, leave it at a nearby mall there. So bicycles are shared. So it's an entire system of infrastructural development that the government has intensively developed. And it's funny, the way these two actually cities, there's actually yearly ranking of cities that are adaptive and cities that are well in terms of cycling. So it's funny that those cities are actually competing to be the best in terms of cycle-friendly cities. So, yeah, it's a good competition. So to answer your question, governments have, in the developed world, they've really ventured into infrastructural development in terms of cycling, to just favor cyclists. So when you go to a road, for instance, you'll find that there's a specific lane for cyclists. There's a specific lane for vehicles. And there are roads where you cannot assess with your, with a vehicle, for instance, you cannot assess with your motorcycle. Only cyclists are allowed within the city. So if you go to a city, for instance, if you go to Denmark, a city in Denmark, you'll find places where it's only bicycles. Either you walk or you cycle to an office, unlike what is happening in Nairobi and other big cities in Africa. So it's about infrastructural development. It's about changing the perspective of people. And it's about actually educating people to understand the need for us to even venture into cycling. Not as a leisure, as an item for leisure, but an item for your health, as a tool to even help in mitigating climate change, as a tool to even help in a good living, a good city life and all that. And it saves you money. Yeah, and it is actually pocket-friendly. In Kenya, 99% of people cycling are earning a salary of 10,000 in billo. Yeah, so it looks like you're in Kenya. Exactly. A poor month. A poor month. Actually, in Kisumu, in Kisumu, when you cycle to work, the perception is that you are broke. Exactly, I think it's all over Kenya, you know. It's all over Kenya. But I think in Kisumu, it's worse. See, here at least you've seen guys, the corporate guys cycling to work, yeah? All right, so okay. So now we need to change that perception. Get people to understand the importance of this. And so tell us now about your bike club and how it's working. How are you changing that, how are you, you know? And as you do, maybe we can have the pictures roll over so that we understand what is happening. Thank you so much. So it's funny, the bike club, Kisumu Bike Club, as you call it, was formed in 2020 during the corona time. So during corona, people were locked in their houses. People were locked in there. Those times used to call cages. So no one was out there to spend time. If you made a step, then you are told, where's your mask and all that. So we were having our bicycles in our homes. So we were wondering, why not cycle? Why? Because you've not had anyone being taken by police because they're cycling to. So we said, why can't we come together and initiate a cycling activity? So that at least because of the boredom we are having in our houses, spending all that time with kids in the house, why don't we take our bicycles and cycle? And that's how the club emerged. So the club's intention was to first do what? Break that boredom in our houses. But again, later on we realized actually, we can use this bicycle as a tool to address many societal problems with of course, focusing environmental concerns. So the bike club is a membership body where people enroll as members. Once you enroll, you are given a particular reflector for safety purposes. We're actually trying to mobilize people to join. But the biggest intention of the club is to actually develop a culture of cycling in Kisumo. As I mentioned earlier, we are trying to prevent a replica of Nairobi in Kisumo. Kisumo is emerging and is developing very quickly. Actually it's the fastest developing. It's actually the cleanest city in Kenya. So we are trying to preserve that particular title to prevent what is happening in Nairobi. Nairobi is actually the safest city in Kenya in terms of cycling. The fatalities we are seeing in Nairobi is so high. So we are trying to ensure that as the city is growing, we grow with the notion or with that already well-established city that is clean and the transport system is inclusive and reliable. So in the club, we are having different objectives. So number one is of course, trying to develop that cycling culture within the city of Kisumo and the residents of Kisumo. And then secondly, we are using the cycling as our means for ecotourism because we realize guys during the weekends do not actually have things to do. So then what we do, we arrange cycling please every Saturday and even in the evening so that guys can just come and explore the vast natural resources within Kisumo. In Kisumo, there are a lot of game sites. They are Kajulu Hills on the other side. We have waterfalls. And you're seeing the pictures. And these places are actually hidden. People are not aware that these places exist. But again, these places are not familiar to people because to assess these places, you actually have to go to those places either through a vehicle or something. But we realize using a bicycle to reach to these places is far much easier and cheaper and very convenient. So then we developed an ecotourism aspect where we call it a bike tour where we just engage our members to cycle within the surroundings of Kisumo to just explore. You see Kisumo as a county is not very urban. The city itself is the only. But a bigger portion of Kisumo is rural. So what we do is we cycle in these rural areas where people just go see the natural resources, see the big rice plantation and the big sugar cane plantation within Kisumo. And it's very awesome and people enjoy. But again, something else we are trying to pursue through the bike lab is we are trying to address the issue of inclusive transport systems. And in that we are working very closely with the city department of planning. And I think I will upload the city because it's very rare for you to see a government body working with youths to design cities. So we're actually working with the city department of Kisumo to try and design the roads in a way that they be more inclusive and they're more safe. So like you see this initiative, for instance, it's an initiative we call Critical Mass. We have Critical Mass in Nairobi, Critical Mass in Mumbasa in Kisumo. Critical Mass is where many cyclists come together to ride for a common goal. Like how it is in the picture. Like how it is, yeah. So this is a Critical Mass we did last year and it involves having different cycling stakeholders coming on board to just air out the issue of our cycling safety on roads because we know the perception that people have towards cycling. So what we are trying to promote is now that particular culture. And not only the culture, but also trying to sensitize people on the need for a safe and inclusive road, telling them that you see this road is not only for vehicles. It's not only for the motorcycle guys. This road is for everyone, including cyclists. So please, can you mind our safety in these particular roads? So that is what the bike club is trying to pursue and we are trying to do it. We are doing it with the city department of planning to just be able to design roads that are friendly to every road users, including pedestrians, guys using, you know, the cotene and all that. Something else we are doing is we are having school programs where we educate school kids on how they utilize the roads. Because when your child is getting out, is going to school in the morning and coming in the evening, you are really not sure of their safety because some schools are placed right in front of the highway. For instance, the MMSHA primary, it is right in front of the highway. So that is a very big risk for the kids that are crossing in the morning and in the evening. So what we do is we go there, platform cycling clubs to just be able to use the club as a platform to engage students and also, you know, educate them in terms of road safety. How do they use the various road synergies we have? How, at what point do they cross and all that? So we are having pilot project currently working with 18 schools and what we do with these schools we establish the safety clubs which we also call cycling clubs and then we also educate the, you know, the guys that they get, the watchmen that they get because they are the ones who sometimes help kids in even crossing. So what we do is we try to build their capacity and even equip them with road synergies and all that so that when the kids are crossing in the morning and the evening, they are there to even give that guidance and the protection. So those are the things we're trying to pursue through the cycling club. I think that's an amazing initiative that you're having there and especially that you have the support of the government in Kisumu. It's amazing. So how do you see us when comparing with Copenhagen as one of the cities that are doing very well in cycling? The system that that's there because that's one thing that you've not mentioned from what you're planning. You know, having a system where I can use the bike, drop it somewhere, you know, take another, get with it home. And I've always seen that even in Dubai, it's not as, you know, in terms of development in cycling, it's not as good as it is in Copenhagen but it's something that's happening. So is it possible to have that in Kenya or will we have a problem of insecurity? Yeah, actually, security is the biggest concern for the bicycles. But the best approach would be to use bicycles to be in partnership, to be a partnership between the government and the cycling fraternity because you might want to do it as a private person but again, you will be risking big time because people will disappear with your bicycle. What will you do? And then secondly, the space that you need even to park because, you know, it's actually called a bike share program. Bike share program. Bike share program. And we tried initiating it in Kisumu but due to some constant ahead, we were not able to pursue it but we tried it in Kisumu. So bike share is where we have like a parking lot where we just park bicycles. So in different places within the town and in the suburbs, there are specific places located for, you know, parking. And that's where now the government comes in because you'll automatically need a public, you know, space for you to do the parking. So you go to a certain area. For instance, if we are talking in the, we are talking in the space, and the Nairobi space for instance, we have a parking within this particular area and then another parking lot in say, South B, we have another parking lot in Western. So when you go to that particular area, bicycles are parked there. So what you do, you just provide your credentials, you do the payment. And it's all digital. It's all automatic, it's digitalized. So you do your payment, you take the bicycle, you cycle to whatever destination you're going to. Once you are there, you leave the bicycle at that point. You go, do whatever you're going to do. And then in the evening, when you come back, you take another bicycle, you go. It's very efficient, it's very convenient because no one wants to buy a bicycle. No one has that time and maybe resources to buy a bicycle. But they would want to reach, you know, their destinations in a more convenient way. So then bike share will really suffice. But again, in context of Kenya, we are still grappling with a lot of, you know, issues to do with security, with perception and all those issues. So trusting people with your bicycle and plus again, it's all about ownership. Because if the people are willing to embrace that particular concept, of course with the notion of why are we even doing this? Because that is the main thing. People will do something when they see the needs. But if people are not understanding the need, then they won't appreciate. They wouldn't appreciate. But again, it's just, I'd mention, it's all about partnership between, you know, the government and the private guys and guys like us who are in the bicyclists. So it's something you can work out with the government even as we do the planning and infrastructure planning. But we'll need a pilot first to try see how it comes up, what are the challenges, what need to work in so that now we can replicate it in other areas. But in Kisumu, it will really work good because still, at least in Kisumu, there's some sort of sanity. Nairobi, you know, the security issues in Nairobi. It's a bit congested, so it takes time but we're going to get there. Exactly. Eventually, all right. Now, we have to talk about, now this is the normal bikes, what about, you know, for people who don't want to get tired and all that. Now, are you thinking of also incorporating the electric bicycles in the program? Actually, electric bicycles are here with us in Kenya as we speak. And in Nairobi, for instance, they are used for, you know, supply for food, especially during lunch hours. You'll see them so many on the road. Exactly. Guys are using electric bikes. So that is really efficient and it's really working well with people who do not feel like getting tired. They want to go to work, they want to beat the jam but they don't want to sweat and all that. Then an electric bike will be good for you. But now when it comes to your health and all that and of course your metabolic and losing weight, then this pedocycling will be very, yeah. But again, you see the e-bike and all that, they're all items that we import. It's an innovation from the outside world. We embrace it here in Kenya. And you see, with that, then it means the price of those particular buses are high. A bit high, currently they're a bit high. So people who are able to afford such, people who are well of people within our site, yeah. Because for instance, you'll get one at nearly 100 plus thousand Kenya shillings. And that is for a commoner in Kenya that is really expensive. A lot of money. But the other ones, from 5,000, if it's a second hand you can get. It's a new one, of course, talking of 20,000, yeah. So the e-bike is a really good thing for people who do not want to get tired, do not get sweaty when going to work and all that. But for people like Kassu value health and we need to be physically fit and all that, these other cycling more will be efficient. All right. I'm thinking if Kassu, it can happen Kassu with a hot weather and people are cycling, then it's very possible to happen, even in Nairobi and the different parts of Kenya. So as we wrap up, I don't know if I've missed something, something you want to share in regards with the green transport system. Okay, yeah. So green transport system, just as I mentioned, is a whole, a part of a lot of issues. It's not only about moving from one point to another, but it's a whole issue. It emerges from manufacturing these tools that we're using for transport, how we even use them, how we utilize them and all that. And even green transport is actually even a concept in the shipping industry. And as we speak now in the COP28 that happened last year, the shipping industry also came up and said we want to also play part in trying to reduce our carbon footprint from the shipping industry because as ships sail on our oceans, they also emit a lot of carbon. So the ship industry came on board and said we also want to play part. So for the green transport, it's a very good concept because it ultimately leads to a green, serene, very quiet and very nice city where one would want to live in. But again, it's very hectic to deal with it when already we are in this stage like Nairobi for instance. So new towns that are coming up, I really wish that they embrace the aspect of green transport and by embracing the aspect of green transport, we are talking of infrastructural development so that when the city or the towns are being planned, the guys who are in charge of planning are doing all that, then they have that mentality of an inclusive road where now each and every person gets a chance to use our roads because the number one issue is about safety. How are we safe even if I'm telling people to embrace cycling as a means of transport? What about our safetyness? So as cities plan, as towns plan, design roads, they should love the direction of an inclusive planning system where they engage road users, they engage cyclists, they engage pedestrians when they're designing their roads. And this one is not only even in transport, it's even in the urban fabric when we are designing our communities. How do we ensure that communities are taking a big role in our planning? When they are planning their settlements, how ensure that community voices are also included in the planning aspects? I'll leave it at that particular point. Okay, that's very sufficient. I mean, I hope you have taken something from this conversation and known the importance of having green transport system, the importance of cycling. It's not a poor man's system of transport. It's a mode of transport that will be beneficial to you and to the whole nation, to the whole universe when we talk about matters of climate change. And for this conversation, we were joined by Evans, sorry, Evans Abondo, who's an environmentalist championing for environmental rights, okay, environmental rights advocate and founder of Kisumon Bike Club talking to us on this topic. Thank you very much, Evans, for coming in. Good, you appreciate it. So now we're going to take a short break and then we'll be back with an interview on Matters Entertainment. Stick with us.