 Hi, I'm Marion Sasaki. You're watching Life in the Law. I'm delighted to be with you here today after a crazy, crazy week. And I'm also delighted to have Andrew Sasaki on again because he was actually one of my favorite guests. And we're going to talk a little bit about what's going on in America. What's going on, Andrew? What's going on with the police? What is going on with the police? It seems like there have been a number of incidents recently where the police have just opened up on armed people. It just seems to be happening all the time these days. Well, you know, we both lived through 9-11, right? And so we've seen the increased militarization of the police force, then the police becoming more like a standing, little standing... A paramilitary organization. Right, exactly. So there's lots more guns and lots more arms and I think a much, you know, more contentious mentality than there was before the terrorist bombings. The police are always like on guard. And unfortunately, it manifests itself not so much in catching terrorists, but in shooting unarmed black people as they drive along the highway or don't. It's in the case in Tulsa where the guy had to pull over and he was pulled over and someone called the police. Yeah, well, it's not just that. I mean, there's also a real increase in escalation. It seems like in a lot of situations, you know, the police tend to escalate situations rather than de-escalating them. And it leads to some kind of a confrontation and, you know, gunshots and somebody wounded or injured. So what do you attribute this to? You know, I think it's a lot of things. I think part of it is the police have become kind of paramilitary in a way. And that's because, and that's in a way because of 9-11. Right. You know, after 9-11... I think it is. Well, it is. After 9-11, there was a lot of funding for anti-terrorism prevention and, you know, that has to be used in a certain way. And so, coincidentally enough, there's also, you know, as we're drawing down in Iraq and in the Middle East, there's also a lot of used military equipment coming into the market. And, you know, if the police can buy that, and they kind of have to almost, in some cases, or else they don't, or else that budget goes away. You know, they have to use it or lose it. So there's a real incentive to get these tools that were really meant for the military and not for civilian use at all. Right. Well, you know, this latest incident in Tulsa, Oklahoma, the Justice Department is now looking into it and doing an inquiry, which I think it's about time because, I mean, how many of these incidents have there been this year? At least what? A half a dozen? You know, I don't even know. It seems like it just happens so often. It's just a real shame that it's happening so often. I think we're kind of starting to become desensitized because... Well, let's talk about Black Lives Matter because, you know, I have a real issue with people that say, all lives matter. Because while it may be true that all lives matter, Black Lives Matter stands for a very specific thing. It stands for a group of people who have been oppressed and abused institutionally and personally. And I really don't get why people just have such a problem with the term Black Lives Matter. I mean, it's just acknowledging our history in a sense. Historically, Black Lives Matter actually. Well, you know, that's part of it. I don't think anybody wants to acknowledge that there's a problem because it really, I think it goes very deep. And, you know, I don't think it's... I think it's, in a way, it's institutionalized, but also in a way it's not because it's not organized in any fashion, right? But there's an attitudinal thing. Definitely a lot of police tend to have the us versus them mentality, you know? And if you talk to them, I mean, you'll hear them talking like it's a war, like it's every day like it's a war. Right, right. Life on the streets is a war. Life on the streets. Right. And so, you know, you... But why do you think people feel so compelled to make this argument, you know, I'm thinking especially of course of Donald Trump supporters, but all lives matter. Why does it bother people to acknowledge this historical reality that people, African-Americans face? And we, as white people face as well, you know, we like to ignore things, you know, and not acknowledge just how bad we've been. I mean, people try to escape that, you know? But I mean, who's going to be admitting that? Well, I think we should. You know, so admitting that means, admitting that means changing the way you do business. It means, you know, and in a way, it's going to mean giving up some measure of authority. Well, you know, it's funny. I've read an analysis of Trump's campaign, it's like a sociopolitical analysis, and the person who wrote the article said that Trump's campaign is the last gas of white America trying to retain, hold on government and institutional systems, and by the next election or the election after that, there'll be a plurality of people of color, and it just won't, you know, or is it a majority? Is it a plurality or a majority? There'll be plurality of Latinos and a majority of people of color. And this is a manifestation of white anxiety of giving up a privileged position. You know, they don't want to give up their privileged position. Well, I should say, I have a tendency to say there, but I'm white and I have to identify that way. You are white. Yes. I'm sorry. But I have a tendency to say there. But no, really, seriously, the Trump campaign is all about white working class men not wanting to give up the little power they still retain. You know, I think that's a significant part of it. Yeah. But it's also, you know, there's been like a steady diet of just the most repugnant and the most repugnant. And untrue stuff being fed to people for so long through right wing media that, you know, I think a lot of these people don't really know what's really going on anymore. You know, a lot of people get their news specifically from right wing sources and just everything else doesn't count. And right wing sources will say any kind of crazy thing, not all of them, but, you know, a number of the loudest ones. It seems like the loudest ones are always saying crazy stuff. Well, you know, there was an interesting thing on TV yesterday where there was that journalist interviewing people, Trump supporters, asking where do you get your news and they say on Twitter or on Facebook. Was that a journalist or was that the guy on the Daily Show? The Daily Show. Yeah, yeah. But doing a better job with that kind of thing than most journalists do. Right. And people said I don't care. I don't have any articles. I don't care that I'm not informed. I'm just voting. I'm just voting the way I'm voting. Right. And he was doing crazy things. If you haven't seen it yet, you should go online and look that up. It's probably on YouTube by now, but I think it was Jordan Klepper going around and asking people. He showed someone two identical pictures of Hillary Clinton and asked, you know, she's using a double. Like, which one do you think is a real Hillary Clinton? And the person was like very, you know, seriously pointing it out and, oh, I think this one's the double. This mass hysteria, I mean, paranoia. I mean, it's, people believe it. They believe it. You know, they believe it in resistance to all, to all fact and all. Well, no, I have to say, to some extent, the Clintons are responsible for the public taking what they do with a grain of salt. Well, you know, that's certainly true. But Body Double is a little bit, a little bit too much. Body Double is out there. I don't think Hillary Clinton has a Body Double. That's just a... And the whole crazy... Crazy right-wing trope. Kind of speak of crazy right-wing tropes. I mean, Trump and the birtherism. Now, all of a sudden, it's not a thing anymore and people should just stop asking Donald Trump about it. And you know what I love about political spin is that not only did Donald Trump march to this birtherist tune for five years, but now he's saying... Was it only five years? Yeah, well, the past five years. But now he's saying, Hillary Clinton began it, which is just utter nonsense. But more importantly, that because of his efforts, it's been answered. The question has been answered. But there was no question to begin with. But it's just shocking. Thank God, the question that Trump has been shouting at the head of the line through his megaphone has finally been answered. It was good of him to put that to rest, finally. It's unbelievable. I mean, what's going on is just... And you know, Trump is rising in the polls. And it'll be very interesting to see what the debate is like on next Monday. You know, I don't think it's going to make a difference. You really don't. I don't think it's going to make a difference. Because the Trump voters don't care. That's not how they get... form their opinions. You know, I think there's some number of Trump voters that will care some. But by and large, I think there are... You know, you have to figure a lot of Trump voters aren't really Trump voters. They're anti-Hillary voters. Right. Right? There's nothing Hillary can do to win those people over. And then there's a lot of Trump voters that really are Trump voters. You know, the number of persuadables that are in either camp is probably not very large. I mean, you know, politics have become so polarized. That scares me, though, because how... somebody's got to win. Some undecideds have to be swayed, so... You know, Trump has pushed the envelope so far that you have to wonder what future political campaigns are going to be like. I can't imagine that. Because this has really been a breaking point, right? This has really been a watershed election. But not only that, but Trump has gotten so far. He's gotten more than a billion dollars worth of free media coverage just because he keeps saying most outrageous stuff and he's constantly in the news. If you turn on any political show, like any day of the week, they'll be talking about Trump. George Bush, George Bush Sr. Isn't voting for Trump. Is voting for Hillary Clinton? Yeah, I know. I think, you know, the question isn't really so much what the forthcoming elections are. What's the forthcoming Republican Party going to look like? Is it just going to go back to business as usual and just having had this anomaly, this character who sees the reins of the party and they'll just put it out of their heads like a bad dream and then go back to business. But what if he wins? Does the Republican Congress work with him? I can't see it. I can't. Well, I mean, the Republican Congress will have to work with them, right? First of all, how many Republicans have actually come out against him? There have been so many that have come down on his side just out of sheer party loyalty. But it's like Luke Warren's support. I mean, he doesn't. Sheldon Adelson isn't giving him any money. I read an article where Sheldon Adelson was giving the Republican. Sheldon Adelson is a big billionaire developer and he makes quite a right wing, makes quite large contributions to Republican candidates. And he is giving $45 million to the party, but only $5 million to Trump. And that's supposed to be... Well, I mean, you know, things that go to the party, I mean, once they're in the hands of the party, who's to say the party has to spend them? You know, who's to say that money can't get spent on Trump anyway? Well, maybe he's not to be... I don't think the party... Well, I don't know. It's a party... I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. But look, let's take a quick break and we can think about it. We can think about it. Is the party really supporting Donald Trump? Are they half-heartedly supporting him? Does he have a chance to win? Who knows? You're watching Life in the Law on Think Tech, Hawaii. Hi, I'm Stan Energyman, and I want you to be here every Friday. Noon! Thinktechhawaii.com. Watch the show. Be there. I pity the fool who ate! Aloha. I'm Kaui Lucas, host of Hawaii Is My Mainland. Every Friday here on Think Techhawaii. I also have a blog of the same name at kauilucas.com, where you can see all of my past shows. Join me this Friday and every Friday at 3 p.m. Aloha. Hi, I'm Marianne Sasaki. You're watching Life in the Law. Did we properly ponder the Trump- Well, first I want to introduce you and say that you're Andrew Sasaki, my husband. And I'm very grateful that you came down today to be a guest on my show because there's a little confusion about guests. And I find you riveting, as you know, to talk to. So I hope the audience finds you riveting as well. I doubt they'll find me as riveting as you do. I know, I do. I do find you riveting, I must say. Yeah, I wonder if there's really full-throated support among the Republican Party for Donald Trump. I don't think Ryan's previous is really... He seems pretty ambivalent. You know, Ryan's previous is a good little soldier and he does whatever they tell him. So, you know, I've heard Ryan's previous vigorously defending Trump. And it is so hard sometimes for the Republicans to spin Trump's stuff. Especially because Trump may very well drop the position he was previously holding the next day. You know, they'll spin it one way and then they'll have to walk it back the next day. Only he's moved on, he's off somewhere else. But you know, I have to say that Kellyanne Conway, the new Trump campaign manager, she's done a terrific job with respect to grooming him as a more sophisticated political figure. I mean, he's really been on point for the past month since she's come on the campaign. You know. He hasn't, he hasn't. You know, by, to a large extent, he's had surrogates doing his talking for him. You know, they're the ones who are talking about a lot of stuff, you know. And the surrogates will spread out and they'll hit the media outlets in like a big wave. And so, you know, you have all these people that are right on message with whatever crazy thing Trump said last. You know, it's already had like this debilitating effect on the body politic just from moving the Overton window so far. What's the Overton window? It's horrible. What's the Overton window? I know you know what the Overton window is. I don't know what the Overton window is. But the Overton window is this theory that there is a range of acceptable discourse. And if you, and if you take a very extreme position, then that moves the range of acceptable discourse in that direction. And so the positions, the positions I've been taking are so extreme that they've really pushed the boundaries of acceptable behavior farther out than they used to be. Is it applicable to other areas besides politics, the Overton window? Discourse in general? Discourse in general, sure. And who is Overton, do you know? I don't know who Overton is. I'd like to know who Overton is. Because it's really true. It's like if there's, you have an outlier and the outlier insists on having his or her point heard and is repeatedly says the same thing over and over again. The conversation does follow. The squeaky wheel gets the grease kind of thing. And Trump has pushed the political discourse into, you know, insane... Oh, he's pushed it off into places where it's never been before. We're not even talking about policy. I don't even really, you know... No, I mean, there's no... I'm not even certain about policy. Like social security reform or... You know, the policy is, you know, his policy is he's going to buy low and sell high. He's going to do the right things and not do the wrong things. He's going to take care of the bad people and reward the good people. Like that's the policy. Well, listen, just take... So there's a little bit of equal time, although they usually isn't with me. Let me say that there's another Democrat in the news now, Anthony Wiener again. Again? For bad behavior. No, what happened? Yes, for bad behavior with an underage girl, a high school girl. And I have to say, Anthony Wiener, you're a brilliant politician. You were brilliant in Congress. You could have made a brilliant mayor. But please get help. I mean, I can't... It's just heartbreaking to watch. You know, his biggest strength is that he's Anthony Wiener, but his worst weakness is that he's Anthony Wiener. You know, I don't know that it's a character flaw. I think it's, you know, much more deeply embedded than that, frankly. And I mean, to have somebody who knows what it's like to be in the public spotlight and still can't control what he's doing, it's disturbing to watch, you know? It is really disturbing to watch. It really is. Right. And yes, so the Democrats have their crazies, too. I guess that's my point, right? The Democrats have their crazies. The Democrats do have their crazies. But you know, it's funny. Like, I feel like the Democratic crazies hurt themselves. Well, public and crazies hurt other people. You know, but if you have a Democratic crazy, Democratic crazy like Anthony Wiener, you know, or like Elliot Spitzer, they end up owning it, apologizing it, and getting out of office. Whereas if you have a Republican, they will fight until death. If they ever, ever admit any wrongdoing, which they never do. Dennis Pastert. Right. So many others. So many others. So how's the world right now in your sense? Since the last time I spoke to you. How's the hackathon? Well, you know, the time is starting to, is starting to draw to a close. I've been plowing through election data, looking at campaign contributions and trying to match different groups to their contributions and figure out what industries they belong to. Any news? No, no, no, not particularly. It's kind of surprising how many mainland groups have their fingers in the pie. In what? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Well, you know, there's groups in Las Vegas. You know, you wouldn't think Hawaii would be a big NRA state, but the NRA has done a lot of contributions. Really? Right. That's fascinating. But no, I actually, I... The NRA and Pfizer, well, I mean, it kind of makes sense in a way because, you know, Hawaii has like been at the vanguard of pushing back against the NRA. Right. Well, I think there's a lot of guns here. It's funny, I had this conversation with somebody at the office and I said that, you know, I was worried about, you know, gun ownership in Hawaii and the like, that's... You don't need to worry about that. I'm like, I think I do, actually. You're saying there's a lot of guns, but Hawaii probably has fewer guns per capita than most places. You know, if you've ever lived somewhere like Texas or Arizona, which I have... Well, Texas isn't a good... Texas isn't fair. Everybody has... When you're born, they give you a little teeny, tiny gun. They give you like a little starter gun. Yeah. You know, not like a full-on gun, but a little starter gun. I told you about... I've told you the story about Ann Richards before she was governor. Right. Well, maybe you want to tell it again? Oh, right. Well, I was working in 7-Eleven when I was in college at University of Texas in Austin and Ann Richards was still a state treasurer and she used to come by every day. And, you know, we got into a conversation about guns. I was just telling her how surprised I was. Everybody carries guns and she's like, oh, well, I carry guns. Just a little old lady gun and she pulls out this, you know, 25-caliber... Everybody... Yeah. So that's... I wouldn't compare Hawaii to Texas. Here's this nice woman. She's a state treasurer. Yeah, just can't run a gun. I imagine New York has more guns, but I didn't feel that there were more guns in Europe, but I imagine there were a lot of guns that I didn't know about. You know, in New York City, it's probably not... It's probably not evenly distributed the number of guns, I have to say, like most things. I don't think that it is, no. So I don't think you'd really venture out into places where there's more guns. But I bet, like, upstate there's probably a lot more gun ownership than... Well, I think it's kind of the profile of the pro-NRA, you know, rural kinds of lower middle class, you know, white population is... That's more the profile of the NRA, I think, right? Right. So the likelihood is... So what do you think? Is Hillary going to take Pennsylvania? Ooh, that's a good question. What do you think about that? I think she'll take Pennsylvania, but I think she's going to lose Florida. I could easily see her losing Florida. And the reason I... The gun thing brought that to mind was because these are two places that have urban areas and rural areas that vote very, very differently. People in Philadelphia don't vote the way the rest of Pennsylvania votes, and people in Miami don't vote the way the rest of Florida votes. But that's the same way with New York. You know, New York City is completely different, voting-wise, than the rest of the state. Yeah, but I can't see New York state going to Trump, even though he can. Well, no, not necessarily Trump, but you know, the state votes very differently depending on the... I'd like to know when the last time the New York state voted overwhelmingly Republican for maybe George Bush. It's possible, I don't know. It's possible. Yeah, definitely. But these swing states, Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, where else? These are the real battleground states. Oh, Michigan, I think, as well. Because Michigan has a Republican governor who's running and doing well. But Hillary Clinton is winning there. It's just... It's like a polyglot. It really is a nice, use of the word polyglot. No, no, no. But it's nice of you to acknowledge that yourself. So, you know, when it comes down to it, it comes down to really four or five states. You know, that's what they always say. I don't know if that's as accurate as it used to be, but you know, the states are so heavily... A lot of voting blocks are so heavily gerrymandered that it's... If Trump wins Florida, you have to come back on this show. Oh, man. I know. I'm horrible. You know, if you need me on this show, you're going to get me on regardless, right? It's not going to matter whether or not you want. Yeah, I guess I know somebody, right? You know somebody. You've gotten in. But no, but I want you to come back when there's results from the hackathon and also more results from the IT community. And the burgeoning silicone... I don't want to say valleys. We're not a valley. The silicone islandess of Hawaii should be a silicone hotspot. Or silicone. Silicone hotspot. Right. But also there's a lot of silicone here. So it's when you, you know, use the silicone gloves and take stuff out of the oven. I mispronounce silicone is silicone. Sorry. Okay. So do you have any parting words for our audience? Oh, yeah. Everybody out there should watch Atlanta, the new TV series, because it's really good. You know, I knew you were going to bring that up. I knew it. I knew when you were talking about Texas, yes. In fact, the TV show Atlanta is terrific. And it's a smart, incisive look at race and economics, but it's hilariously funny. So what's Donald Glover's? Donald Glover's. Donald Glover's Atlanta. Guy is beyond community. If you like politics and you're keenly aware of social issues, this is a show for you. This is a keenly observed show. But I mean, it stands on its own even without that. It's just funny and really keenly observed and really well written. Yes. Yes. So, well, thank you for doing the little promo. I guess Donald Glover would thank you also. Yeah, Donald, I'll tell you where you can send the check. Okay. So once again, Andrew, thank you. I would have to say there is a connection between Andrew Sasaki and the law. He remains the son of a lawyer. So thank you for coming, son of the lawyer, on life and the law today. You really helped me out. I appreciate it. And I love talking to you. I love, you know, I like kibitzing, as we used to say. Kibitz is which is Yiddish for chatting. It's good to have a good conversation. It's good to have a good conversation. So join us next week, Wednesdays, 1 to 1.30, Life in the Law. I promise you a more legally legal show next week. Maybe a little less Trumpy. A little less Trumpy. I'm Marion Sasaki.