 Good evening. Wow. How did we start? Such an amazing evening that we're about to start right now. My name is Rashid Shubhaz. I'm the campaign for Black Women's Achievement. It's my honor tonight to host and be a sponsor of this event. To honor Chanterelle Lewis' amazing career and the Black Dandy Street Style. This is also, I want to thank the Brooklyn Museum and Aperture Foundation, and particularly Alicia Boone, particularly for allowing us to be here this evening. I also want to just say that this is not the first time in partnership with Aperture and the Brooklyn Museum back in 2011-2012. We partnered with them around another project called Question Bridge Black Males. So we're happy that we're continuing the partnership and relationship. I have to watch in the film all my thoughts and everything that I had hoped to talk about, just reconfigured it so I want you to be patient with me. But one of the things that I was thinking about is just how beautiful Black people are. And Black people we know were as an African people, as Black people, we're trend centers, we're originators, we sample, we remix, we remix. Again, we appropriate, we take, and then we recreate it. And we also put back into the world constantly. And one thing that is so valuable, I think it was Chanterelle. Tonight we're going to get a slice of just one Black existence because we're so multifaceted as Black people. But this idea of the Dandy, I think for Chanterelle, and I want to speak for her, she will speak later, is so rooted in love and Black love. And so I want to start there and I want to welcome the speakers and panelists for tonight. I want to first ask to come to the stage Ignacio Cuarles. It is Keyless. Keyless, is he correct? And he's a trend center himself, multifaceted, haberdasher. He is a model, he's also a designer. He's also run his own venture shop for a long time. He's also an elder to a number of individuals in this space. And so we want to thank him and give him a round of applause. Next I would like to ask if Darnell L. Moore will come to the stage. I'm a senior editor at Correspondent at MITE, and for the time I've known Darnell, I think the most important thing about him is not only his love for Black people, but he's been a voice and advocate for Black Lives Matter, as well as the LGBT community. So can we give a round of applause? The stage of YOLA is OK after it connects a global audience to the African content through compelling content and high profile cultural events. And prior to OK Player, he's a recovery on Wall Street. I don't know if he's a recovery, but he's not no longer on Wall Street. And so without further ado, I want to ask my sister, my friend, Sean Trail, who is to please come to the stage before I sit down. I know this has been a labor of love for her. And I'm just very thankful to Aperture Foundation for seeing the value in bringing this book to life, a journey that began so long ago here in Brooklyn and seated here. And for those who don't know, Sean Trail is a curator. She's a researcher. She's a lover of culture. She's done so much for so many. She's also the author and writer of this book. And she's, most importantly, in addition to all those things, she's a Howard grad. I had to give Howard a shout out. And then in addition to that, she's also a graduate of Temple University. So not to belabor this, I'm going to take my seat and begin this conversation. So if you have not gotten the book, I think there are some books on sale this evening. There's only a limited edition of the books that have been printed. So you should try to get your copy. And there's only a limited edition here tonight. I think there's about 500 people there. So I think there's 100 books. So I'm just letting you know. So this picture here, we pulled out a book. And I want Sean Trail to tell the story of how, why this book is so important. She tells the story in the book, but those who don't know, this is her brother, Samford. And so, Sean Trail, I want you to start, tell us the journey that you've taken. I'm going to click through the pictures. I want to sit here for a second with your brother. I'm a little emo right now. So you have to bear with me. At the start, I say my telephone is here going. My telephone was shown. I'm here on the back and the shoulders of my ancestors. And the Arisha that guide me. So I have to get that out. This handsome young man is my little brother. The pleasure of having met Samford. Who actually did not like the name Samford because he made it feel like an old man, a young boy growing up in New Orleans with this very old man. But Samford came into this world as an old man, right? Old man. Like he's older than me. I'm like, boy, you know you're my little brother, right? You're known from New Orleans. In case you didn't know, you will find out today. Next day, they're going to have a date. So growing up in New Orleans, this old man comes out of my mother and is obsessed with dress. His suits, his Kenneth Coles. I mean, dude had like a line of Kenneth Coles, like polished in his closet. Nobody could touch his Kenneth Coles, right? It was a source of pride for him. And I mean his kangles, his bow ties, and it was just like so taken with how my little brother was so committed to dressing. Even in the book, I talk about a time for my W Time Bugs, you know, those black folks in the south. Just a little boujee, not too much, just a little. Particularly in New Orleans, you know, we make our debut, we come out. So I met my W Time Ball, my wedding gown on, being presented. And we're taking these family shots. And Samford, the photographer had something to nail because he's the youngest, right? Dude was mad about it. Like, you got me living in my good suit. I mean, his face was all frowned up like in a photo. And I mean, that's my brother, right? And even when the exhibition opened in Chicago, Samford walked in with his life. But I didn't even know it was him. I just saw this sharp, dressy brother with his head on. I'm like, dang that brother's a good, I wasn't checking him out like that because I had a man, my husband's time. But if you say dude, dude was dressily sharp, right? And then he turns around as my little brother, you know. And so that, you know, that's my, my entree into this world of Danny's brought up as a black girl, middle class in New Orleans being surrounded by these glorious examples of black men in my family and Samford, you know, is one of them. So this is the one picture from his first communion with the first person. You know, prior to me being a Chicago priest, I was the Catholic girl. The little Christian Catholic girl and my mama tried to remind people, you know, she was a Catholic, right? She grew up in the church. And this beautiful couple of hair. This is my grandfather's sister, Mama June. I'm the late Mama June and her husband Uncle Robert, my great-uncle. You know, I just have to tell you, Mama June and Uncle Robert, so they're married. I go to the house in Eldiers. Mama June is like telling me, well, what's your mama doing? What's your grandma cooking? What's this one cooking? Well, he's telling me, yeah, that was in the Congo and I knew Patrice Lamumba and she's looking at him rolling her eyes and she's like, yeah, so what's your daddy Mama cook again? That's Uncle Robert and Mama June and, you know, to this day, Uncle Robert, you know, gets dressed, you know, gets sharply dressed. I mean, even though he just sits in front of the television watching the news, arguing about politics, you know, this is Uncle Robert, you know, 80-something years later. Oh, thank you. I want to briefly dive into the idea of the day of being. So I pulled this image because I think it captured some of where I want to take us in the next 20 minutes and then we're going to bring it on to the audience. Ignacio and you talk about this sectorial journey that we take. So I want to ask you, what is a day of being? Just so for those who may not know by now what a day is when we film, I want you to say what your idea of a day is, but I want the deter to Ignacio to share his journey and also talk about this idea of the day of being. So I have to shout out my name. I'm going to write a few pictures. There were 14 photographers who were in the inaugural exhibition and so this is one of, this was like these, you know, a photograph from the first iteration of the exhibition. And I think this speaks to the quintessential Black Dandy, right? Is a Black man a man of African descent or a woman or someone who doesn't fit in that binary who takes European, you know, sharply cut suit and Africanizes it. And so the Black Dandy is a trickster. He or she is a rebel. He or she is someone who is very clever, very conscious and political about how they get dressed and how they're showing out and showing up in the world when they're walking down the street because they're very conscious of how people are perceiving them. They're also someone who finds immense pleasure to shout out my 20, Joan Morgan talks about pleasure a lot. You know, they find so much pleasure or they get pleasure from how they dress, right? And I think that's something that's very African and something that's in us in terms of like, you know, it's beyond respectability because there's lots of respectability more than Dandyism. But in today's contemporary context, I think we forget about us as an African people. Like before we even contacted, you know, we're in contact with white people, we were getting dressed up and we were doing it by ourselves. And so even in the absence of whiteness, we're still dressed up. We're still regal. We're still beautiful. We're still powerful. We're still making statements whether it's spiritual or political with how we dress ourselves. And so for me, that is what the Dandy is doing. He's taking something like those jazz musicians in New Orleans did with jazz. He took European instruments and they created something entirely new because we're always innovating as a people. And that's what Black Dandy is doing today. You and I had a conversation that was very informative and I want you to share a little bit about your journey. But in the film, there was a moment where they're talking about how you dress. And I also, at some point, we'll get to darn out on talking about this as well because I think it's relevant. But the idea that dress can either save your life or you can be killed based on what you're wearing. Now, I think that's up to just a lot to unload. It's a little problematic to really think about that. But in the moment of Black Lives Matter, in the moment when we double-trade my mind and the hoodie symbolized so much for so many to get organized, can you share a little bit of your journey and then also contextualize that statement that you were having in the film? Growing up in the so-called hood. And that's another word appropriated for mine. It's really neighborhood. But by the use of just the word hood, it creates an image of hood, lump, or hood of the lump. So I fight that word. I call it a neighborhood. I call my place a hood. So just to start from that premise, it's a long, tutorial journey. And I know, like a lot of you, I've made the mistake of putting on the wrong outfit or not matching it well or not wearing the right suit or not wearing the right tie or that thing. So we make all these mistakes and that's part of the enjoyment. But beyond that, the great suit or the great pair of shoes that you wear, it's a long, tutorial journey but this value, this power that comes with that cloth, like Styler's Resistance, like the Zutsu, in LA they did it as resistance but yet they still look good because there's a power in that cloth. But with that power comes a great responsibility as to how we're supposed to behave. The hip-hop style, the bagging pants, doesn't have any power in the sense that it doesn't open doors. Like when I was a kid, I think I've shared this with a lot of people and I used to play with my friends, I would dress up and say, I'm going to walk into that building and they're going to open the door for me and they're going to let me in. See I'm dressed like this and you're dressed like that, you go to the door and see what happens. Because it does put a value on us, we've always had a value put on us. From before slavery we had a value because our vote didn't count, we had to be three quarters. They added that value to us and then if we don't look the part, like my mom would say, don't go out with those pants wrinkled, or that shirt wrinkled. It was an image that your family instilled in you. I grew up in Harlem so I got to see the Sunday parade of people and I got to see people that worked at night because a lot of people did work at night. But during the daytime hot steppers looking really good, dressed to the nines. And again, but that took years and it's a long journey and we adapt and we get ourselves to that point. And I started with many of these kids in South Africa. I started with Thrift Life and so my mom was a seamstress so I sewed and I took things apart and I reinterpreted them and my body, like both of them, was talking about how the pants didn't fit our butts, basically. You know? And that's usually a problem area for most men of color and Latino men as well. But again, we had to re-adapt and reclaim European and then fit it to our African body. Which is very different. And anybody that knows when they got a suit made and you notice your backside gets a little bit more fatter because we're a little bigger in those areas. So, a lot of the things, a long journey. I'm a fan of the well-dressed man and whether it is leisure style, this mashup that you have, which is amazing, I've told you this before. And it's interpretation of bringing back but it's also bringing to the forefront that this is something that we always did. If you look at the 60s when people marched and I would look at that and say, man, these people are marching out there and they look so good, but they don't want to get beat up and they got that nice suit on and they're walking proud. Why? It was giving us an image. I am just like you. I know different than you. And I'm showing you somewhere my best, my Sunday best. On this trip, I'm going to chase my dog, beat up, but there's a power in it. It's style, it's resistance. It's like I am not going to bow down to you. And I'm not going to bow down to anything. I'm going to keep going forward and I'm going to look my best as I go forward. So, Darnell, I want, because I think Chanterelle has said something really in terms of dress being political and I think that probably the most political thing we've probably seen in a long time is Luke Cage, right? Because then you can wear anything and still survive a moment. But the reality is, you know, it's not doing about what you're wearing. We are black people and that we're back facing certain challenges despite how we look. Though there are instances, though there are these moments, I'm curious, based off of your journey and where you are and where you're representing, responding to the Ignacio, but also thinking about dress as political, as a political way to shape gender, reconfigure it, but also think about it from the standpoint of how we see ourselves as a people. Sure. So, yeah, I love this idea about style or fashioning oneself as being a form of resistance. Sitorial practices being a form of resistance. The first thing I say about black dandyism and what I think it does as a form of resistance, as an intervention, is unbind this notion that class, and by class I mean like the notion of classic man or classic person. Respectable. It removes that idea from the notion of whiteness. So, we think about class or we think about respectability through the gaze of white supremacy and bourgeois aesthetics. That is to say to dress classy or to dress respectable or to look like the classic man which is to look like the white and juar respectable man with money in his pocket. Black people refashioning themselves or resisting or sort of to use a word, I was going to say cus but I didn't do that but playing with or toying with those styles is a way of repositioning that. But I want to also think about this in a different way. It is also to say that thuggishness or the thug is not easily mapped onto black people or the hood because if that were the case the thuggery of let's say I don't know the drone attacks coming from the White House or the thuggery of Trump people are put through our class on Wall Street. These folks are dressed in suits. So, this is a way for us to understandism is challenging us to unbind these notions from race and class and asking us to reconsider how our definitions and ideas and representations and perceptions of class of class...classicness of respectability are so shaped by a white imaginary that tells us that anything that isn't white that does not have money is not classy. It's to say that thug is the most thuggest thing I've seen is America and the White House. I come from the hood and I'm reclaiming that term as a person from Camden, New Jersey as a person who spent a lot of time in Newark, New Jersey who learned dandyism in Newark. First haberdasheries I went to were in Newark, New Jersey and my got bow ties made there and it's interesting the first time I even modeled in a dandy campaign was under the guise of a black woman dandy named Kate Ross. In so many ways what dandyism does is also unmapped this idea that masculinity is solely the domain of male bodies. This is also a cisgender woman who dons bow ties and it allows us to manipulate and maneuver through the gendered ideas that we're told we're supposed to follow. Those are also the products of white racial supremacist patriarchal understanding of how we are to adorn ourselves. When I put on myself every time any of us adorn ourselves it's out right, it's political. Now I'm able to mess around with gendered ideas based on how I stylize myself. I will say the danger of these ideas of dandyism that we carry is this I knew when I was in Newark that if I wore a bow tie and served in circles it may be legible in a certain way. It calls people within the community when I was working in politics and organizing to actually read me as having a type of political and social capital. That is to say they understood me as the right type of black man walking into the hall. Even if I was gay. Which is to say that if we only understand dandyism through this guise we do ourselves a disservice because what it means is that we're upholding a stale, rigid idea of black masculinity that is solely based on a understanding of cisgender men having to perform a type of bourgeois political capital politics in order to see ourselves as representation. Part of it is how we stylize ourselves. And it is through that that we can ship gender understandings, understandings of power and understandings of race. That is what we have in this space. But I do want to continue that vein for a second because I think that's the most important thing when we talk about dandyism we're not talking about respectability politics in and of itself. We're talking about something more than that. And in your book Chad Drell you talk about black folk have a long and resatorial history. Afghans were some of the first if not the first so and over time Tiller became an art form in Africa and talk about that and I was thinking about Dapper Dan and the appropriation he talked about and how he said that was a counterfeit though Gucci emphasized recently see Louis Vuitton just went for Tommy Dapper Dan so you heard they were coming in back so I want to go to Aviola and Aviola we're going to open it up in a second we're going to open it up Aviola because we were talking about this idea of the Edwardian idea of how we've taken this dandyism from a European aesthetic but what I appreciate in the film was that moment when it said ANC he was like all nice and clean that sense that one of political statement right ANC in itself from a South African context but again taking what Darnell was just mentioning Aviola from your perspective okay Africa that reaching back but also the moment we're in can you talk about your ideas around dandyism and it contextualize well first of all Chanterelle is game one fact that we hear means we love you I'm just messing around I know Chanterelle for a long time I considered dressing today in a Nigerian Aglada but I said I'd rather come as a contradiction to the ideal that I hold so sacred which is what will a world look like had Africa or Africans never been tampered with this my journey for how I ended up dressing like this my journey for how I eventually became a guy who adored myself in suits and things of that nature was purely respectability I was in I grew up in the 80s in the Bronx my parents we were we lived right across the street from Taft High School one of the worst high schools in the country at the time and the 80s for an African kid in the Bronx was hell you were teased, you were constantly made fun of your culture was not even the envy of anyone and it's ironic to see the way African culture and African fashion today has been inhaled and coveted we moved back fast forward we moved back to Nigerian in the 90s that had to go with I came back in the 2000s in 98 rather and I immersed myself in African American culture at least what I understood African American culture to be which was hip hop culture I had a durak I had the avirex jacket I had listening I had my the Nietzsche I had two earrings I put the S-girls I was a farmer from what you see today I had a hip hop group we used to go around and do these rap battles and then I found my way into corporate America and the only way for me to be taken seriously at least what I thought was a way for me to be taken seriously was to dress like this and every day I'd go to work for 11 years just hating that I was fitting into this box I hated my job in many cases I sucked at my job and when I dressed like this I was that token I was the guy who they would call to show diversity talk about EEO all of that I agree with Darnell in that this and this is some of the issues that I have with dandyism as we understand it or at least as I understand it dressing like this disarms whiteness and I should be allowed to wear my hoodie I might not like gentlemen who dress or wear sagging pants right but they shouldn't have to be killed for dressing that way I'm watching the documentary and they talk about how Kanye West and Jay-Z they swapped out their clothing for business clothing and I thought to myself when I'm in Legos doing business I'm in a nice white talk about doing business we need to also change the language, the adjectives that we use to describe what a respected individual is without having to play into respectability politics so this is a contradiction of my ideal I think we have a handle so that it isn't just a fabric with a cloth for what you wear there's other elements that we embody you could wear anything you want, a hoodie, whatever and I think it's like a thing that you forget matters when you carry yourself and that goes further than just a suit and I think if you are able to express yourself and articulate your position, yes you can wear whatever you want I choose to dress like this I grew up with my generation this is what I had when I looked out the window on Sunday this is what I saw at living in Harlem this is what I saw Stacey Adams I mean anybody know Stacey Adams Stacey Adams you wore your nice suit you had your tailor made this we didn't call it this fold we didn't know who we were getting this fold we're getting the tailor made oh I'm getting the tailor made man I'm getting those bands over here I'm getting my flap stone over here I'm gonna get that blind knit for all those that know what a blind knit is we already know who it is so we would dress it like this and all this stuff that's coming down now in terms of this free and guji and kooji sweater kooji down to my socks like I'm a big popper all of that it's part of us and it's been part of us for a long time to bring it to the forefront and create this conversation that we needed to have because we've been dressing like this for a long time this is nothing new this is nothing new you go back to Detroit in the 60's when Catherine wearing those high order skin type pants and you can research so you can look this up and they have the little pointy shoes and they have the stinky brim hats all of them if you know and that was a stop that was a stop I want to add we have a couple of minutes and I was going to come to you because I do because we only have a couple of minutes and we're going to open it to the audience so we're going to continue the conversation for a few more moments but Chandra I want to come back to you and contextualize everything you're hearing because this is your book this is your baby this is your idea and we go to questions can you again root it back in the Africanist aspect because you talked about the trickster and what I'm hearing as observer, listener as someone who's read and knowing all of you the one thread that I keep coming back to is black people or fly like no matter what we rock in like Darnell he still flies right so this idea of style and this idea of how the style we have is tied to heritage and culture can you root that for us and round us and then we'll open it up so this is what I need you to understand about this thing that Darnell called name to called white supremacy what's your name? You got an African name you got a European name, you got a Igbo name you got a Kain name, a God name, a Fulani name a Zulu name or you got a white name a European name your spiritual practices where they come from they come from those same groups of people like the religions that your ancestors practiced and identified with and Haiti and every other major revolution in the new world that was led by practitioners of African spirituality or something else outside of our culture right when you dress up you know what I mean where you shopping, where you buying stuff from where you supporting businesses all of these things white supremacy is rooted in all of that in 2017 we're still naming our children Europeans and white people that's white supremacy you know and so I think that we can't look at one thing like pick and choose like how white white supremacy manifest themselves in our lives and when it's sent our children to colleges or we send them to HBCUs do we praise kids when we see those articles that spread around about all this child all these scholarships to Harvard and Yale and all of these Ivy schools do we do the same when we say our students got accepted into Howard and to Fiji and BAM we need to like stay present to that right and so the other thing is like in this book the reality is blackness is not a minor lift anything blackness is everything if you want to wear green hair that's black if you want to be a punk project that's black you can go into a body of wine and they have punk projects every metal people they're all black we do everything like it encompasses everything everything comes from us so even the things that we think came from Americans are African, Puerto Rican and Nigerian you know black Americans by way of you know slavery system you know what I mean it's so nuanced and that's what this is about and that's why I included Teek Malan in my book you know what I mean because I was like I'm not going to have a book about black Damianism and just have cisgender straight black men even in conversation with conversation happen let alone trans men right and masculine cisgender women that's all happening in this book so to bring it back to the diaspora and who we are as a people whether in Brixton or New Orleans or Brooklyn or whatever not going to these places because I am a well-traveled woman and the Netherlands is celebrating me right now because my book is in another than that black Dutch community by way of Suriname and Curacao and Aruba you know what I mean Damianism is only one story the bowtide of talking about the the hip hop art accessibility, image when hip hop first is found let's get back into that right there was diversity in hip hop you had jungle brothers, you had something rappers who were doing something who were wearing baddies and animal baddies that y'all weren't even wearing in New York because we were doing our own thing in New Orleans so there were all these diverse styles that existed in this one culture and then white people came and took it over and said this is hip hop I'm going to give it back to you right corporate insurance that have a capitalized difference and that's your complex is in bed hip hop right so there's something there's blood tied to a particular type of image in a black man so when everybody does this that's when it becomes a problem to express your masculinity means excessive wear extra casual thug whatever that's when it becomes a problem for me and as soon as not bulletproof and I say that as soon as not bulletproof I'm coming from work whether we have a kid I know we gotta ask questions Sean going to take it over right now is that we need to do, we have work to do this is only one story one very very small story we each have stories in our own families and our own communities that need to be told and we're not going to tell them who will Mike's at either side if you have a question I would like to ask the panelist I don't know how we got to a situation talking about fashion of black people in 30 minutes tonight but that's the situation we're in right now so we can go celebrate Sean Trails book downstairs after this so if you have a question or you have a brief I would say like 30 second commie to keep it brief I'm going to do a microphone yes hi my name is Naila hi Sean Trails can you share a little bit more I know you just spoke about how in this book you start to explore masculine sense of women right women in dandyism can you talk a little bit more about how you got to that place during this dandy journey because as I remember before originally the journey started many years ago really looking at cisgender men so can you take us a little bit tell that story a little bit and then your family always want to come and pull your card I'm not going to pull all my tea on the station I pour it all I'm not going to do that but I was ignorant at one point in time when I met I was going to Brazil and they had to give me together about my potions around black men and women within the queer community and representation Dream Hampton was how I came to that point that was the first person Dream and I were in Egypt and she was like you know you can't have a book sis and not have no women in there right? and I think initially I was trying to challenge the homophobic notion that to dress this way means what because I think I know you would agree that there have been people who told me in the LGBTQ community that they do dress hyper like this stuff you know they're more casual and that's what I put the hard hyper masculine way because to dress other than that then there's sexuality in question and then it's problematic dealing with all of that and so you know so for me it's like it's problematic on so many different levels and so nuanced but it was many of the conversations with my friends Cleaver Cruz Hykeen Pitts all the children the legendary me together so I can't take on that credit about really having these more like complicated conversations because you can't even my mom I was so butch as a child oh my God but Chanterelle was also very boy crazy so it took me a while to understand where I was more losing my dress like a girl than a boy oh look who's going to put on some skirts then right? you know my parents will always say you need to put on a dress when my mom is getting so mad you know because I just did not want to because I was like I'm a girl so if I had this on my brother's polo and heel figures and jibos whatever then I'm looking like a girl because this girl right? and then we talk about like these gender roles I am a priest of Chanterelle if you know anything about Yoruba cosmology you know that Chanterelle is a God of thunder and lightning he is as hyper masculine as a kid he had three wives Oyao Shun and Oba right? so it's the spirit of a grown man decided to be someone out walking the world not caring that I chain my head right? you want to tell us? Yama, Dr. Blaine Oyaa it was a very long journey over seven years okay thank you next question so I had a question just for everyone about their opinions on something like recently like obviously like more African Prince are trending like in this like way like two years or so and there's not a lot of controversy over like if black or African Americans can wear African Prince and like if it's appropriation or not but it's like it's different in my opinion because like growing up I always had to wear lapis and like wearing my ledges and stuff I was like ridiculed and I didn't really want to wear my outside as if it's trending though like you know it's okay for me to wear but I'm afraid that train would die but I just want to know your opinions on things first of all you're free to wear whatever the hell you want to wear this you know this conversation came up recently because Beyoncé had an African themed baby shower and there were questions again about can African Americans appropriate African culture and first I really I resent this conversation right this is not the discussion that we as black people need to be having people grossly misunderstand what appropriation means and it's because it's always just opposed to whiteness appropriation is borrowing from one culture of another culture we appropriate each other and that is appreciation that is great when white people appropriate African or black culture is problematic because of the historical context the historical subjugation of black people so black people African African American, Haitian, Cuban you cannot appropriate negatively your culture it's one culture get out of that conversation about black I mean it's a really annoying but just we can wear whatever we want when we want are there other questions if not then I'm going to come back to the panel have some more additional thoughts as you listen to me and I'm just curious to that last statement just the whole idea of just like cis gender how we're talking about masculinity but we forget mom's name give me your camera we can catch you with a big go look at her pictures google it now google stuff now my time google her and look and see who she was a dandy and the conversation I just think what chanterelle has helped us to do the project is really many of us really still have trouble distinguishing between gender expression and sexual sexual identity or sexual desire so the way that one adorns oneself stylizes oneself tutorial practices does not indicate or over-determine one's sexual desires so that is to say identified by all of you as a man I can wear a dress which is typically assigned to women that has nothing to do with my bed or what my sexual desires are so that's the first thing and this is I think really essential because this notion of a time boy that you bring up people see as we identify them little girls dressed in what is typically assigned for little boys or over-determining or maybe to determine who they like or what their sexual desires are so dandyism like I said before I think is a play on it can be a play on gender and it can help us to understand that these gendered ideas masculinity suits are not just a part of the manhood experience and I raise Kate Ross because she is a designer and she has a lot of social ties I mean you all should google her and see what she's doing with dandyism as a way of toying with our understandings of what gender is this is not really a question about sexuality at all this is a question about gender and our commitments to the way that we are socialized to be men and women understand that those lines are meant to be broken breaking these barriers down so they're constantly being broken she and Trevor had the last minute to close us out and I'll wrap this up but I wanted to use any final thoughts you want to share about where they can get the book where the book is located what's next on the tour for the book anything that you want to share this is when I first thanked my editor she was like what are you doing this book would not be possible without people believing in my vision and Aperture came along seven years into this project M.O.C.P. Natasha Egan who's not here is definitely kind of away from the museum for cinematography there are so many institutions what was sent from Mrs. Masonian she also brought that institution I mean the exhibition too Baltimore Victor Dayson at El Gyro it's like a labor of love that started in black institutions first and that got bigger and came to the mainstream and so I think it's always been a political decision of mine to work for predominantly black institutions the Caribbean Cultural Center who I could not be here without you know I'm going to run my work as a curator who's looking at the diaspora all of the photographers Russell Frederick I just have to give thanks Radcliffe Roy, Layla Barron Adam Aduffin so many people I can't even name Roger Walker downstairs taking pictures so many people believe in my vision it's like as a black curator this is not no listen you know because your girl, your wife she's one of the first curators these first curators to help me to say your voice is valid and I will always be indebted to you for that and the reason why I'm shouting at people out is because that's African you know you can't come in these white spaces like Brooklyn Museum and then just be beyond yourself forget where you came from I can't do that because the jig is not the job but you can get it from my publisher's website Aperture, you can go to the store there are also lots of other booksellers online that's carrying the books they're back in stock I just want you to think of those books I remember when Jamel Shaman has been back in the days and I walked into Urban Outfits right after I graduated from Howard and it was the first time I've seen black people in that way as art and of course I've been exposed to Darren Douglas and Jacob Lawrence and all these people because of my parents but in terms of like street like just an everyday black person as art that was the first time and then I was introduced to Dr. Depp's work and saw those photographs on a museum wall so I was like I want this book to do back in the days and it can only do that if you go and get the book get that book, give it to your sons your daughters, your grandfathers your moms, white folks other black folks Latinos, Asians I mean there's so many points of entry there's so many stories and it's just interesting right it's not just my own personal story but the story of so many other people so it's not like I'm lifting us all up this is like my labor of love to black folks I love what it is trust me Depp's going to this project so I just want to say thank you so much for she and everybody thank you these people they're amazing Darnell is now at Cashes which is a new platform you could go with these writing some great things and obviously okay Africa, Aviola is doing great and the campaign for black women achievement and the Brooklyn Museum thank you Leisha so my name is Leisha Boone I'm an associate curator of public programs here at the Brooklyn Museum and to produce programs my joy and support for Darnell and her vision and as it grows and I really want to see this exhibition here at the museum shout it out over social media at the Brooklyn Museum say you want to see this so Sean Trump so proud of you I love you so much and it's been a pleasure to see you grow and flourish and I look forward to continuing to support you on your path as you continue you're amazing and we are doing a book signing with Sean Trill in the lobby where Gigi is subbing his spinning courtesy of okay Africa I want to definitely thank Rashid Shabazz and his team of what we're experiencing tonight so it was a definitely collaborative effort between Sean Trill campaign for black women achievement and as well as Aperture and okay Africa so thank you everybody