 Very, very good Monday morning to you. You are watching YT54 and this is why in the morning, and as you know, it is Monday and it's about that time we delve into youth and politics. Karibuni Sana from wherever you're watching us. This is the segment where we talk about governance and leadership. So if you do have any comments, questions or contributions, today we'll be handling public participation. How involved are you when it comes to the decision making processes of your county because this was also devolved. So make sure you do participate at YT54 channel on Twitter. The hashtag is why in the morning. Hashtag youth and politics, if you like to be specific. On Instagram, we are YT54 underscore channel. On Facebook, we are YT54. And on YouTube, in case you missed any of the valuable insight here, we are YT54 channel. On DSTV channel 376, start times 54, signet 824. So it's about time I introduce the guests that I have with me in studio. But because we are so many, I want everybody to be able to be heard today and be able to say their name. You know where they are watching us and where they've come from. So yes, I want to see you. Please say good morning to the people. Good morning to viewers. My name is Eric Mangese, the CEO of Global Student Integrity Center. Thank you. My name is Matroke, Patrick O'Sedda, and I am an ambassador from Yemira County, Asinomo. They are the founder and commissioner out of Yemante, Kenya. I'm also the youth governor in Yemira County. Yes, he's my CEO, I'm the ambassador of Global Student Integrity Center. All right, great. And I'm Hilda Aditi. Just in case, I forgot to mention. All right, ladies and gentlemen, let's go. I greet you all, the viewers. My name is Benjamin Kui. They have the microphone. I greet you all, to all the viewers. My name is Benjamin Kui. Mm-hmm. Good morning. My name is Manjali. Good morning to all of you, and good day to all of you. Good morning to all of you. My name is Esab Chaviyaj. I'm from Africa Nazarene University, and I'm a student. Good morning all. I'm Domi Kondirini Aguta, from Africa Nazarene University. Thank you all. Good morning, and good day to all of you, and I'm a student at Africa Nazarene University. Thank you, thank you. Good morning, and good day to all of you. Good morning everybody. My name is Sabuda Prables. I'm from Koyasu. I'm not a new face here. Good morning, everyone. I'm Owinobra Michien, from Kaganata University, student of commerce. All right, I'm Santé Nixana. It's about time we have a conversation and we can also participate. Sindio, you know, the article, now article 232D and article 196 of our constitution gives us the allowance as citizens to participate when it comes to some of the decision-making processes that are being done. And it was recently devolved. However, people have been complaining that their public participation tends to be done under cover. And nobody really knows what's really happening. So, since it has been rigged by so much corruption, I would like to hear from you. How important is this for us, for people to participate? Is it easy for you to get the information to participate? And what are some of the challenges that you have experienced? Can I start with you, Boana CEO? Thank you very much. Because not very much involved in politics, but there are the natural issues and the concerns that come up each day we have to share what we're able to. Now, with regard to the question that you have asked concerning the public participation, of course, it is there, as you have read in the constitution, outlined of what is required of the county government when they form their policies. Even the national government when they form their policies. But then they do it as a key act. They don't take it seriously. And in any case, they get the views from the participant or those people from the concerned areas where they want the policies and the legislation. They do it because the constitution requires, but they don't do it because they will do exactly what they implement, the views that they get from the audience that they do it. I remember one of the counties I don't want to mention here, where they were stopped after they were doing their budgets and the policy. They were stopped that they had not gone through public participation. So they had to go back to it. So it tells you that they went for it because there was a challenge on what they were doing. Otherwise, it was in their interest to continue and get views from other stakeholders. So I think it is something that is quite critical that we need to look at and see does it add value, even those people who thought of having it in the constitution, does it add value in terms of what it intends to achieve? Yes, about public participation in our counties, it has challenges. That's the truth. One, I thought that the evolution could take resources to the people, could take leadership to the people. But as it is by now, it has created avenues for rooting. People are there to root, they are there to take funds, but not to give back to the side as the evolution was. Public participation, as I can say, it is not fully mandated to the people. At least it is supposed to be. One, how can you participate on what you don't know? Civic education, they don't even teach people what they are supposed to do. How can you participate in what you are not granted? Because you must be granted. That's why when I was a first year, I was granted this university, this is where you go, this is what you do. But people participate on what they don't know. Communication, to communicate to the people. They just come in two weeks, two days. Tomorrow we have public participation. Particularly, I always speak in Yamira, where I come from. I was just about to ask you about your country. The other day they communicated. Just three days to the event, we have the public participation at different worlds. And I was encouraged, three days, to these people know about public participation, what is required. How can you take public participation to the people? They don't know the budget. They don't know the amount of money the government has given to the county. They don't know what they are going to talk about. So it was a matter of taking money to the people. I saw them giving people 500 bucks. I was like, oh, you participate in making policies so that you are given something and it adds it down. So you've mentioned private information, that's what I'm hearing. Let me hear from you guys. What do you guys have to say when it comes to public participation? Do you agree with Patrick here that there's no information? Okay, thank you, Hilda. Public participation, especially in Kenya, is a charade, it's something done because of, it's a formality, but there are people who really do it. Let me start with those who don't do it. Those who do it because it is in the constitution that it should be done. So it's going there, meet people and then you are given kachai and then people pretend that everything has happened. Yet nothing has happened. You're just there to grab a stampet and all that. There's a writer called Paulo Piere. He's written a book called Pedagogy of the Oppressed. So this Pedagogy of the Oppressed says that those who are oppressed, those who are, are just there to show the public so that they're being TV and newspapers that something is being done. Yet nothing, in real essence, is being done. I'm up here with Makwene. We have a public lecture on Friday at the University of Nairobi. Masters and PhD students about how they do public participation. Those guys have people in many public participation. Wow. Especially in many public participation. So there are some counties that are doing well. They started from village level. They have presidents from village level up to county level. So that these people, the village people, identify the problems they have. They pass it to the sub-world level. They have divided it to sub-world. To sub-world level, to world level. It goes up to county level so that what is going to be reflected in the county budget is what the people have said from the grass field, from village level. So there are people who do it. But majority, it's just Sarabas and Trotter Sarab. Okay. Hilda, I do want to submit to you that there's a challenge that is actually taking us back in our nation. I'm left wondering and questioned in my mind that where are we heading to? Because things happen behind the curtains. Just like there is then that your stockpile referring to your mayoral county. When you give a short notice, you don't inform. You see, when you give a short notice, it's only a few who will be able to get the information by that time. But even if the majority get the information, they want to make it. So public participation is a thing of a sense. But if it is to be implemented in our governing systems, then it has to be given some seriousness. Because it is here where we are going to involve the individuals who are going to, you see, put some ground for the development that is desired. So when you don't involve and you want to do things behind the scenes, then we are actually missing. The other question that comes is that like in some counties, in some counties, you realize that public participation is a thing that a subject that no normal citizens are aware of. Like, I'll talk to my county, I'm from Homa Bay County. And Homa Bay County, things just happened that, you just hear this, it happened. They just told this, it happened. And they don't inform the citizens. I want to admit that information is very vital. Giving the information is what we lack when it comes to involving the public in participating in public things. Okay, okay, let's hear from somebody else. I want to hear about the other counties as well, because Sudan has really shown us that it is possible. You know, if you are passionate and you want to look, and you want to look for the information. So please tell me about the access of information. Where do you guys get the information from? Okay, thank you, Hilda. What I can say, number one, I want to congratulate those people, citizens of Sudan, they did something great, which ought to be a guiding routine in our African countries for us to evaluate ourselves. Okay, when you want to talk about public participation, let's focus, which is the impact of this public participation. Number one, we have to identify the positive gains that we're going to receive from this public participation, and selectively discriminate the negative sides. So let me talk about the positive sides. Number one, public participation, it brings about new awareness, it brings about development, it makes our leaders to be on toes. So those are the main aims of public participation. But now here comes, yeah, accountability. But now here comes a case where public participation is like, now we are taking it to be like a privilege. We don't have to demand, we don't have to request for public participation. We ought to demand because we also need to account for our taxes, which we pay. So number one, let's talk about my county, which is Kisi County, where I'm the governor of the youth. What I want to say is we are not involved in public participation. Participation, when we say about public, we need to have a notice. This is going to tell us maybe a month before that we are going to have a public forum, we are coming to participate. This is what's going to tell us, and this and this, we ought to prepare ourselves. We ought to be told the main reason of this participation. So when something is done, we are not involved, we are not told, we're just being told some few minutes too, so which is not good. And when it comes to these people, what I can say, this is social comedy acting. Social comedy acting. Why do I say so? Because just look at an example, here is a leader who is launching maybe a water project. He has launched a water project. Maybe in your area, in fact in my area, somebody has come to launch an organization, but you are going to see it on social media after it has happened. After it has happened, you are seeing some pictures, which I take it to be a peer show. So what I need to say, we need to be involved. We need to be told in advance about this public participation for it to be fruitful, and for it to have that positive impact on us. Otherwise, if you are not keen, then we are heading nowhere. All right, all right, all right, please, can you please don't talk for too long, we want everybody to have an opportunity to say something, all right? So let's go ahead. Okay, as for me, it's so sad that since 2010, when the new constitution was promulgated, and now it's like eight years, okay, roughly eight years down the line, and such policies such as public participation have not been fully exercised. And so, okay, on the issue you talked about information. To be honest, we don't know when these forums for public participation are conducted. We're not aware, we don't know the venues, we don't know, we know nothing. So if the county government can at least tell us maybe a day's prior to the forums maybe, or let's say they give time, they elaborate the issues to be discussed. And the other problem is that the youth of the public at large, we don't have interest. That is something I was just about to ask you guys. We have been accused of not being interested. That is why we don't seek out this information. Is it true? Yeah, it's true because who will sit down, maybe you go to a forum and you sit down for let's say the whole day. Discussing development. Discussing some of the development, something of which you'll get nothing from it. You'll see. So if people, if we get proper information, if information is relayed in time, and the people, let's be self-motivated by the way. Let's be self-motivated, let's express interest. So the information is there. We just need to look for it. Okay, Buanasi, you deal a lot with ethics. I would like to understand from you, how do we solve the issue of ethics when it comes to this thing? Because people have been accused of finding public participation, but then they bring their people so that they can pass whatever it is they need to pass. How do we fight this? Because we are the next, we are the next. Thank you, Ila. Like I mentioned, my interest for colleagues and the student leaders, I'm happy to do that. I'm addressing them. And Ila, if you look at our national politics, all that almost 80% of alumni at a given time, it was a student leader. So it means that it's very cool to deal with them. Now, I think leadership becomes a concern. Now we are talking about the issues to deal with the public participation. And of the discussion that you can hear here, you get that they do it because the constitution requires it. Now, when you talk about ethics and integrity, it requires you to do the right thing in the absence of any other person else. So even if you are at the top, you will still do the right thing because it is required of you. I don't need to go there because there is no one who will see me. I go behind there and then do a wrong thing. Even if the nine will see me and my conscience tells me that this is the right thing to do, then I should do it. But then, just to add on what the participants have said, something on accountability. Why? If any case I would come and say that you see this toilet here, we want to build a toilet here and this toilet will cost us 2 million. But now they know that if the public are informed of the amount that is used there, then they will not be held accountable. So what they do is that they deny us from knowing this. Any ethical leader should know that it is the right of the subject to know that this is what required. And we are, as a position as a Global Solidarity Centre, we are looking at servant leadership. We see from these other countries, the Western countries and all that, like Brexit the other day, when people do not support the idea that now I am not having the will of people. They are really not with me. So we must challenge our leaders that their interests must be in a way of service. When I want a position of leadership, do I need it because I want to benefit myself or I want it because I want to benefit the subjects and I am there because I have been delegated. Any other person will do it, but in this time you have been delegated, you have been given the authority, you are acting on behalf of the public. So when you talk about ethics, they are interdependent. It goes with accountability. I would deny you participation because I would not want to be accountable. You don't know how much I have spent in buying this form. Sorry, sorry. Because you don't know how much I have spent in buying this form, you will not ask me, why is this it? Because you don't know how much. So when we talk about public participation, again in terms of ethics and just bringing it together with that, is you realize the intent of public participation is at the end of the day, any project, any policy that is going to be formed, is it in line with the interest of those people that are going to benefit from it? That is a major question that we intend to have the public participation if I am going to build a school here. Is it a thousand kilometers from where a bigger people would come from and a number of people that are going to use this facility? And how much is it? Then one year later, when you come back for another participation, then we can now ask you. They think that you came here and you told us that you are going to use one million. Why have you used two million? And is it beneficial? And that's why if you look at the country, there are several projects, even from the national government, there are several projects that the white elephants, they are no longer there, of late we were talking about the facilities that were given in the hostels, that are now not being used. And do you remember the day the governors were talking about, they were not involved? And look at the consequences. Millions of money have been put into the system. Why those who want to participate and bring their ideas on what is intended were not there? So I want to underscore the fact that the public participation is very important. Okay. And to them there are concerns. All right, so guys, do you think there is hope for us in light of the situation and all the corruption that we have seen? Is there hope? Yeah, thank you. First and foremost, I don't think public participation is in existence. Oh, so you don't even believe me? Why am I saying this? You know, one, we are authors of all these fortunes. Mm-hmm. Why? We, you know, we came up with the constitution. We were consulted. Mm-hmm. And again, we are victims of the creation. Mm-hmm. So you are going on victim mode. Can we hear somebody? Please don't say we are victims. We are not victims. Yeah, you know, why I'm saying this is because, like, I'll use the example of my county. I come from Transeo County and partly, okay, Transeo County, I can say that. And I'm a leader of Transeo Student Association and I'm the president. Mm-hmm. But the thing is, youths are never consulted. I can give an example of this. For example, in my county, you get that previously, around 100 million children who are given out to the youth with regard to bursaries and all that. Mm-hmm. But the issue is this. When you walk in the county and inquire, try to find out who among these youths got the funds. You will find that there is none. So this is what I want to say. All you need to do is to get involved in this county activities of which the county government is trying to ignore us. So you're basically saying we express interest? We need to express interest. Okay. That's my point. All right. Tell me here from the lady. I'll support Benjamin with that. I'm also from Transoia. Oh, Transoia is notorious. People are victims. They are anyway. You know, the funny thing, when you say you come from Transoia, they only think about me. Oh. So public participation to us is just a name. There's nothing in that. So I don't think public participation is there at all. So what are you doing about it? For us, we are formed a student association of the deputy president. We need to give our concerns to the government. I hope it will be heard this time. It will be heard. It will be heard. You are new to politics today. Okay. According to me, public participation is not in existence. From which county? I'm from the county of Bormet. Bormet County? Because we are elected a woman governor, everything is in a mess by now. Okay, okay, okay. Okay. I'm not saying women governors are bad, but our own governor is bad. I'm going to let me speak about public participation. Public participation, sometimes we are like that, it's public participation. But in the real sense, it's nonexistent. Because for one, they do this thing in a tactical manner. Number one, it's about time. Time in which they inform the citizens that we have public participation. The MCA comes like today and uses WhatsApp groups and Facebook to inform you that tomorrow morning we shall have public participation. WhatsApp groups? Yes. How about the mothers? That is where you find now MCAs becoming social media bloggers So, another thing, it's about the way they do this public participation. The MCA and maybe the governor herself comes to where people are gathered for participation with her supporters so that these people are going to amend what she says directly without any question. Another thing also, for example, in the recent months there is a project that the governor was introducing that's creating shares for border-border. This was not bad, but now the problem is when she was informing the citizens of Burma that we are going to create shares for border-border. She never said the amount of money she's going to use for those shares. I love that. Because I have had a rumor that she used 598,000 for one share which cost less than 30,000. So you see, that becomes a problem. Burmette County, you've been put on the spot today. And maybe to add on what you say that people are not interested in this, I beg to differ. People are interested. The only problem is the leaders themselves they tend to put the people aside because if people are not interested during the time of campaigns we will not get these people these big crowds of people going to where the leaders are coming to campaign. So I think the people are interested but the problem is the leaders themselves they put the people aside. Can we please hear from another county as well? I want to give my opinion but it's very urgent for the fellow colleagues but I will concur with my fellow colleague Joy. I think they use in a slumber like what John F. Kennedy said in 1960 that a society whose youth are in a slumber cannot realize its potential. I think this monster of public participation it happens but their real thing is ambiguous in a sense that it is unclear in a way that it is being done yes but actually the way they do it is that they go back to their society and get their people who are really interested they might be they might be influenced by political political ideologies I can say that there is political influence in this thing. We cannot talk only of a county but this public participation for a county but also for national government for this public participation for the national government we know that these two monsters of political parties they we can call it NASA and Jubilee before we go into the politics of the parties you said that the youth are in some kind of slumber so what can we do to wake up that's what I would like to hear because we need to conclude this because we come here we are spreading the youth I think youth should wake up from their slumber land that's what I can say like being interested in this political political spheres and economics like you find a lot of youth like in Akuru we are out we are not actually participating we are not that residents of that place you might find like some of us who are in school some of us are like they are going to work for the youth 55% of the labor are the youth so they might be working or outside the county so for national government I think for public participation to be legit the judiciary should be like incorporated inside the so that let me finish the judiciary should be incorporated so that when a public participation is done it's being taken to court if someone challenges it so that the court will see if it was clear then let it go and the same implemented but if it's not clear let the court like declare it null and void and let them go back to the same public participation okay alright let's go to the back we need to wind this up I'm from Machakos county Machakos in my county I don't think that public participation will ever happen because since I grew I've grown from that county actually and I've never been participated because if I I want to get interest in public participation then government aids should reach me first and I should see the needy ones benefiting from it but if I don't see that I will not even get interested I won't even have the interest to check out what is going on in my county because even it will be just useless wasting my time in such things because you'll find most of the youth now 90% are on social media just doing funny things keeping themselves busy actually they're not even ready to watch news to know what is even happening about the country even anything hopelessness I'm hearing a lot of hopelessness can we please end your turn and get interested okay thank you Ida I was reading about about Hitler why he killed so many people you know he killed around 6 million Jews and around around 10,000 around 10,000 Europeans so I read that he came to power after the first world war so when he came to power they were fined they were accused of starting a war so they were all accused they were all fined that they will pay all the countries the damages that the first world war done so there were people who are the Jews were the people who owned banks so they were very poor because of this so because of this this guy was killing cattle every cattle that was around that was standing between him and progress he would kill so it was revolutionary I'm not advising us to kill as the youth we should find a way like Hitler we should find a way to develop our own cattle but we should find a way of doing away with cattle in fact after that German became the richest country in the world after clearing the cattle so youth should find a way of clearing cattle and then public participation will just soka and then will just benefit because we are poor because there is no public participation and the people standing between us they should have cattle let's clear them there is hope there is hope excuse me allow me to submit to our government that we don't need black men manas in our constitution okay okay this is very clear there are things that are displayed in our constitution but they are never done this this subject at hand today is very well constipated in the constitution but it's never practiced so I'm submitting to the government that you don't need black men manas in our constitution alright alright I'm so sorry it is time for us to conclude this segment you know thank you so much for telling the youth on social media being doing funny things instead of thinking about what's happening okay as I tell you Santa for watching you've been watching us on politics we do this every Monday we make sure that you participate all the countries that have been called out can we see some changes anyway thank you guys so much for making time to be here I know it's raining and it has been a journey please do not go anywhere you're watching why in the morning