 You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. I'm like, whoa, whoa, what's happening? We're arresting you for human traffic in modern day slavery. From this point on, nothing else. I can't report on these men, I can't highlight these men and if anything, people need to be aware of this. And then the post blew up and I said, I just then had to say to everyone, watch this fucking Tommy Robinson's going to be here. And I said, and you know she's falsely accused of people, so you know what's gone on. He's either to stitch us up, he doesn't give a shit, he is a racist, or he is a Muslim hater or an Asian hater or colored person hater. What I said is these men are innocent, I actually my words, these men are innocent of proven guilty. They might walk out of that court and go home. I'm not saying, I'm not presuming they're guilty at all. What I'm saying is, here's what they've been charged with. This is how many of them there are, this is the crimes they're alleged to have done. I said alleged the whole time and as they walked in I said, how do you feel about your verdict? I don't agree with the radicalism, I don't get agreed with anything that's radical. Or you know, the bombings and the killings, no, not totally not. Islam does not say that and you know that's what's on me. If you leave Islam you'd be killed, which is why lots of the Islamic countries is punishable by death. Now my thing is that you might stop the average Muslim in the UK, I bet if you ask Moe, if someone changes their mind and wants to leave Islam, he don't want to kill him, you know what I don't know. That dad you've been called a pedo, that's what he said to me. And it hurts you when he said, you know, your oldest son. It's saying that. And then we're on to this guest. We've got a man, Tommy Robinson and more army, how are these guys? I'm good mate, I'm good. I've done a lot of podcasts, Tommy, I've done a few with yourself now, but people's always asked you to sit across with a Muslim man as well, but used to have got a lot in common, for people to understand that you've actually saved Moe's life, basically. Well yes, I wouldn't say I wouldn't have saved his life. You know, I'd say you played a part in saving me from a lot of grief. Yeah, the MP might not agree with it, but I think it is what it is. Yeah, because obviously everybody always tells you about that racist brush. Let's be honest, but with what you've done here, there's got to be some sort of credit as well, because you were involved in a grooming gang with a young girl, 12 years old, travelling around the world with her. Your whole life would destroy it. This girl put a post out in Facebook, she had over 100,000 times, all the celebrities were sharing it, and it turned out that the girl had just done that case, she destroyed your life, your kids, self-harm, and the only person who tried to do the right thing was yourself. People would call you a racist, you could have easily walked away from that, so there's got to be some sort of credit that you used to buy this man. Why? I wouldn't say I need credit, because my job was to go up and report the truth. I went up there with an intention of getting him, if I'm honest. My intention was, so I travelled to Barrow, and this was put up, a girl put up online saying, it fitted everything, she named the same cities, I've been a victim of these grooming gangs, there's been a cover-up, and finally coming true, she's beaten black and blue in the images, it was a terrible looking image, and it suited, it fitted the narrative of what's been going on in most towns and cities, the cover-ups in most towns and cities, and the girls put straight in jail. So at that point, everyone's like, what's going on, this is a big cover-up. I travelled up there, I got to Barrow, and I started asking around, and I found out about a boy who she'd falsely accused of rape, and a boy called Jordan, and I went to his house, and that's the first thing I'd done, I went to his house, I said, tell me what happened, and she'd ruined his life, he spent four months in jail, she'd got him remanded, she made Snapchat a cat, so the reason why I got remanded, I started reading the cat, I read everything, I spent, I read everything, the whole case that he had, she was laying on the floor, nearly unconscious, and the police had been called, and they come around, she's laying there pretending, she's laying there, lot on the floor, blood everywhere, and then they think she's dead, and then she gets up and says she's been raped by Jordan Trengrove, and she created a Snapchat account on her own phone, sent herself messages, so when she showed the police, the police think, well we've got threats from him, they give him bail for the rape, she says he's come around and done it again, she created more evidence, so when the police have seized her phone, months into the investigation, when he sat on remand for months, he's feeling suicidal, he's in the paedophiles, they've realised she has created an account herself, on her phone, in his name, she sent him up there, so as soon as I found out I sat there, and that was it, like once I knew that, I wasn't sure if he's guilty, but he can't be judged as guilty, and he can't just not be judged as guilty, but there's 2,000 people in this car park, they're raging, businesses have been closed down, Muslim businesses have all come under attack in the town, the rumours are going round about every Muslim business in the town basically, and so from that point I thought, well she can't be trusted, so nothing else can go, from this point on, so I knew straight away, from this point on, nothing else, I can't report that this, I can't report on these men, I can't highlight these men, and if anything, people need to be aware of this, and then I went and found a boy at school, that she had accused the rape, she went to the police when she was at school, and said the boy raped her. At the age of 16. At the age of 16 I knocked on the boy's mum's door, and she just went, please, no Tommy, please, and she said, I know why you're here, please don't do this, his life was destroyed, yeah? He was on bail for 6 months at Tommy, at the age of 16, a kid being on bail at 6 months, imagine, you're having to go to college, you're having to go to school, and you're in Barrow, Barrow itself, you've been, you've seen Barrow, Barrow's a special place. That's my word, sorry. And it mudsticks it Barrow, no matter what you do, everybody knows everybody, and everyone has an opinion or judgment on somebody, and so 16 years of age, man, that kid, not right, if you look at that where Tommy's going from 16, then Jordan Trengrove, and when I got arrested, what's it, Anjum Chowdhury's a 7-7, 9-11. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's 7-7 when I got arrested. What's it, 7-7? 7-7, yeah. The reason why we're laughing is because Anjum Chowdhury, my mate was a cameraman with Anjum Chowdhury, and when they said, can you count to 10? This is his famous thing. He goes, one, two, three, four, five, seven, seven, nine, 11. And he's just trolling all the time, and I was telling him about what he said, so that's where we got that. So when did you get through onto the bus, then? How did your name get involved? My name goes butchering. Now, if you go to 2016, 2017, my name got involved then, and it was on the Great Mill, it was all on the outside of it, that I'm an enabler. I'm a pedophile synthesiser. I support pedophilia. Prior to that, I was a drug dealer. My van got stopped 18 times. 18 times. My lad and my business was just constantly, we were under siege by the police, right? Ice cream vans. Ice cream vans, yeah, the ice cream vans. Constantly. And it was just basically, and there was drug searches and stuff, but at the time, the D.C. Scott Levitt came, and another D.C.I. came when we employed that sarge, he was apparently, he's got a couple of cases or whatever, which I don't know the depth of, but I know some parts of that is bullshit, because we've got evidence of that. I've got evidence of it. And they came to see me, and they said basically that, oh, you've got him working, we're a bit concerned. And I said to him, what do you want me to do? Well, nothing, as long as he's on his own. I went and he isn't, because my son at the time couldn't get on the van, because he had to be 20 on the vans. Ice cream vans. And so he was just basically a driver for us. And that was it. Then the target became the blue van, the yellow van, the red van. They got pedophiles, pedophiles. And then I'm sticking up for him. I'm speaking, anything like that. Somebody came for me, and he said I'm to prove and guilty. If I was a wronged, he would have bought me down. The police would have bought me down. I would have got done. Well, if this lads are wronged, let the system take his course and find out. I did a DBS check, I worked within the realms of the law. Me and my partner, we lived in the police station for a few years, and I kept saying to him, there's something bigger happening here. You're not seeing it. There's something bigger brewing here. There's something bigger brewing here. And there was constantly, then from drug dealer to from drug dealer to pedophile enabler, synthesizer. And that was it. Then it just blew. And then going to go and get some stock one day. It was a Sunday, driving down to promenade. And this is the hilarious parts of it. To me, I find this hilarious. I'm driving down to promenade to go to bookers. On my car stops me. I'm doing 50, 55 miles an hour on a 30 mile area. And I've just got my license back. Two weeks, I've got my fucking license back. And I'm doing 50, 55 blue lights. And I just thought to myself, you know, why have you done this? I just honestly, it was just like, why? And I thought thinking, oh, it's two weeks that I might take my license. I'm more scared of going on, telling them this is I've been done for this. And next minute, it was just like, is it more, more? I got this isn't on my car. It's the CID, Volvos 69 play, 60, 67 play. I'm thinking, I'm just more, more. I thought, Mohammed. That's how the cop was talking to me. I'm like, Ramzan. Yeah. Or the car keyless. The car keyless. Turn it off, turn it off. I just turned it off. I said, yeah, I thought, what's happening? What's this about? I thought, come on. I've just got my license. Passed my license. As I've got out of the car, my door, my hands on the door. I'm getting out of the car. And the lady officer stood at the back of my BMW. And he's like, do you sign language? Am I not here? I'm like, can I, I can see you, you know? And he's like, this is sign language. Get the handcuffs. Say it. I said, can you tell me what's my, first I said to him, what's my driving? What's my motoring offence officer? The exact words were, what is my motoring offence? Nothing. And it's more, more, more all that done. Then he got, as I said to him, what's my driving offence officer? Your fit number plate and plate is faded. My back number plate is faded. And I'm doing 55, 50 miles an hour. What are you stopping me for? It doesn't make sense. And then he got, as soon as they got met, boom, she puts the handcuffs on. On one hand, while it's a coupe, windows down there, bang, handcuffs there. I'm like, whoa, whoa, what's happening? We're arresting you for human traffic in modern day slavery. At that point, I understood, I laughed. I computed. I thought, I've been done for having illegal immigrants working. I thought it's basically they, I'm not paying the wages or it's illegal immigrants or something along those lines. Next minute, I'm stood on the road. I'm stood on the bloody road, handcuffed. People are driving by taking pictures of me. One of them were your detectives. I thought pictures have been taken off me. And I'm just, I had to say to him, can you please put me in a car or take me to a badder police station? It's a police station just around the corner. Now about five of them turn out of nowhere, an Amrock, a Volkswagen transporter, a Polzo, a Volkswagen pickup, Amrock. Another five coppers, they're going through the car like, I had a body or something in it. I'm thinking, do you think I've got immigrants in the car or something? That's what my idea is. They've not said sex exploitation or rape or anything at that time. Until they got me to Kendall, when I started running off there, and when I said to them, just take me around the corner, it's about a badder police station. They go, badder police don't want you. That was the answer. Why does badder police do not want me? What was the problem of badder police station giving me custody there? Instead, they took me to Kendall. And then, but yeah, when I got to the desk, you know, the biggest thing is everyone keeps going on about, and you keep getting social media, I was coping drugs. I told the sergeant, I had a bit, I had a wrap of cocaine. I have got it there at home. I said, it's there. You know, he held me hands up straight, but that's the only thing I knew I was guilty of. He was searching my house, you're going to find that. Cool, no problem. And then he goes, you know what the charges are? I went, yeah, human trafficking, modern day slavery. Then he goes, sexual exploitation, gain over thinking, no rape at the time. It was just trafficking, fucking shit, I don't know. I just went, whoa, whoa. I thought, at that time, I was like, lad, come on, let's get this done. I need to get back to work. Let's get this interview done. Soon as the sergeant said that to me, I just went, solicitor, please. I need a solicitor. I can't get my own. It's too long. Can I get duty solicitor? I just get somebody. And that was it. And, you know, bang, head went, I thought, bloody hell. You know, I'm a lot of things about this. So, see when that girl posts that she was beating and your name was involved? No, she didn't. A lot of people didn't know it was you. No, they did. The post went a year later. This is now July 7, 2019 I've been arrested. And 2020 May, she does the post. But the way they did it, it was done very strategically. You know, some of the messages she's put up and they were, my name was marked, rubbed up, they always said more. More M-O. There's only one more in that town. More Ramy. And there's only one more Ramy, you know what I mean? And that was it. And they just blew up. And that was when the actual trouble kicked off. I could deal with the local stuff. You don't want to deal with it. But you're having to go through it. And then the post blew up. And that's it. I just said to everyone, watch this fucking Tommy Robinson's gonna be here. I was just like, fucking great. That's all we need. So see when everybody's against you. See when your whole world comes crashing down. Everybody thinks you're annoying. So it's the worst label you can ever have on you. How did Tommy end up involved? What was the steps? Did you know who Tommy was? Briar? Mate. So I've got up there and started investigating. And my thing, because of the charges, I don't care about any people saying, oh, we think this. There was two of ice cream wars. There was a lot of territory to do with who's got which ice cream round in different town. A lot of people would say a lot of things, but I said, I'm here to listen about trafficking of young children and rape of children. And then as we're looking into, I spoke to lots of young girls who would have worked with him at some time. So asking everyone, what's he like? What's this? No one come back with any of those allegations at all. And then when I started looking through people, she's accused. And then that's when I approached each Muslim, the couple of Muslim, and I was waiting by, we found an ice cream van and I was waiting there and then you've come out and said, fuck off, what do you want? What do you want? What do you want? And I see your son. I see your son as well. He looked a lot younger, man. And I said, look, I'm just here. I want to ask Mo some questions, because Mo's name had been thrown in the mix because there was allegations against someone who worked for him at one time that had gone around the town. And those allegations are due of an upcoming case. So they worked with Mo. And then I went around asking everyone about him and I asked everyone. Lots of questions found out. Everything about you, where your family were, Bolton in this, all these different things. And I'm looking at her, but there was still nothing to say about the pickup that she's telling the truth. But we know she's lied about this, this and this. So I come to ask the questions that people would want to ask about. And you've told me, fuck off. I've said, listen, there's a lot of discrepancies in what I'm hearing. I'm not here to do anything other than to find the truth. If the truth doesn't suit my narrative, I just want to find the truth. Can I speak to Mo? And then Mo rang me. I gave him a number, Mo rang me. I come to his house to ask him questions. And then I go to his house to discuss what happens when he takes off his suit and gets back to his car screen. So at the end of the day, I was thinking he's got a little bit of an attitude, something like that. I was wondering if Mo would be able to forgive you. I thought he'd be able to forgive me. I thought I'd be able to forgive him. But he's got a good grip, so I'm going to look at him. I'm going to look at him and say, I want to get back to him. But I'm going to look at him, then he's not, then this is the respect I've got for Tommy, then he's not doing his job right now. Then to me, he's there to cause the trouble, everything that we watch, we follow, or the Asian Muslim community thinks about Tommy, is true then. He basically, he just stitches up, he doesn't give a shit, he is a racist then, or he is a Muslim hater, or an Asian hater, or colored person hater. But he didn't, he didn't, he didn't do any of that. The man sat in front of me, and I've been in contact with the guy now for a while, and it's, it's never once made me feel that I was, I couldn't trust him, or I shouldn't be working with him, I shouldn't share my stuff with him. If anything, he'd give me confidence. If anything, he'd give me confidence. And one of the biggest things was, I used to always say to my partner and everything, the abuse we were getting, all the hate messages, all the disgusting, which don't need, you know, the properties being damaged, the cars being damaged, the ice cream has been smashed, the constant behaviour of threat. You know, we have to shut our shops down, we're an interior shop, my partner's an interior designer, and she's got a Christmas shop, all year round Christmas shop. Nicely done. Yeah. And we had to shut that down for over two and a half years, my worry was, because I am being stitched up. I am being stitched up here, but not by Tommy. I've been stitched up by this girl at Barrow Police Station. They are full aware of the history of it, and they've not done anything. Then I'm thinking, what if somebody comes and actually puts an ounce or something in the shop? We don't know. Phone calls done. Then I'm properly fucked, Anna. And I just thought, no, we'll just lose it, we'll survive, but we'll just shut everything down. And it was a hard, it was a hard three years. It was a hard three years. But then basically, just living off, not much really, hand out, friends, savings, they go, they're remodaging this to pay that, remodage that, tenants, all properties got smashed, tenants were out, next door neighbours, tenants left. When the police search come, then fucking COVID, you know, that was a bit of a savior as well. And I think it works both ways. What was your agenda, Tommy, when you started looking at the case further? What was your plan of action? Because you've never really done anything like this, where people see you're against Muslims, this and that. But then you stood at the forefront with the only man who says, this guy is innocent. What was your plan? I think I walked in and see your kids as well. I walked in and I've got my heart. Did you say a bit of your life in that? Yeah, yeah, I did. I see the fact that I get called things, I get called a racist, labeled a racist, and I see the damage that's done to my children. And in their social circles, in school, when Black Lives Matter blew up, my daughter had a terrible year due to the accusations of racism, all these things. And I looked and see his kid and I sat for, Jesus, like, because knowing this girl's told multiple lies, I'm sitting in his house with his family, they're life fucked. He's got all CCTV cameras that are not put in the hallway. I have cameras. They're not sat in so I'm looking at them all day. So he sat there with them on the sofa watching, knowing that they've been under attack. And then I looked at the kids and just thought, Jesus, you'd left college right at school, had to leave due to everyone presuming his dad to nonce. I thought about how difficult it must be for him. And the kids, I thought, Jesus, like your dad's been labeled as a pedophile, off of a girl who has falsely accused multiple other men. And then I knew there was lots of discrepancies and I knew the family weren't telling the truth. One of them was a counsellor for Labour. Nan's in charge of social services. But the husband Ronnie, so I had someone following the husband. We were trying to locate him because they come out against me, the family did. We don't want him here, the star. And I found that suspicious. So as I was looking and I walked out of one Muslim man's business, come out of his business. And he just told me and when he turned up, he turned out of an English lad from London. And the lad goes, Tommy, I follow everything you do. This is when the first got to bury because I follow everything you do. I respect the work you've done. Do you think I'd be sat in here with him if he was a nonce, if he was a groomer? He goes, he ain't no groomer buff. He goes, this is bullshit what's going on here. So he told me that. And then as I walked out the shop, another car pulled up, he goes, yes, Tommy and some lad jumped out. I said, all right, mate, how you doing? He goes, are you here for the Ellie thing? I said, yeah, he goes, yeah, I used to work with her. I said, what's she like? He goes, yeah, she's all right. He goes, but she went round telling everyone I was having sex with her. And I said, what was you having sex with her? He went, no, I wasn't having sex with her. So I was like, okay, this don't work. This don't work. Then I've gone and I'm trying to find someone else and we're waiting it. We've got a surveillance car outside someone's house. We're trying to track someone down. And then as I come out the side of the car, one of the women comes out of the house says, Tommy, come here. She said, what, should you hear for the Ellie thing? I said, yeah, she goes, my daughter's friends with her at school. She made serious allegations against someone else in her family. Yeah, this is what the woman said. So I'm like, wow, right? So I knew straight away in those first few days that their life can't be destroyed based on what she said. Yeah. So and then still maybe a risk she's a victim. Even when I sit in the house, they still may be a risk. I've still got a lot more questions to ask of a lot more people. But these kids' lives, the wife's life and his life can't be destroyed. And these can these businesses be shut down off the back of it. So I was there trying to find the dad. I get a phone call saying we've got the dad. We know he's in KFC car parks. I said, all right. So I say to my, I say, right, mate, I'm going, yeah, I've got to go. Yeah. And I didn't even ask five minutes and I record that, you know, I record everything. Yeah, I didn't have cameras. Yeah. But of course I said, listen, give me five minutes. I'm off. I'm going to shoot. And then I shoot and find him. And when I find him, I just ask him straight, when, when are you going to tell the truth? The whole country, not just the whole town's about to blow. You've got people traveling near. It was the start of COVID. There's literally 2000 cars. People coming from everywhere for a demonstration for this girl, which is based on bullshit. Yeah. So I've gone to the car park then, where the demonstration, I've gone and found the dad and said, like, when are you going to tell the truth? And he said, no comment. And I said, well, yeah, what? I said, when are you going to tell the public the truth? All these people are up here. There's a lot more going on than Muslim men have done this, because, because for example, if these, if these falsely accused people before were all white men, yeah, you falsely accused all these white men, now it can't just fit because it's the accusation that it's Muslim men. Yeah, this can't just fit no matter how much some people may want it to fit. This cannot be taken or the word of her can't be taken. And I said, and you know, she's falsely accused of people. So you know what's gone on and you're not telling anyone. So then they had this justice friendly campaign, they raised 20,000 pounds. Everyone's gone mad. Maggie Oliver's come in, celebrities have all come in, go out of Coronation Streets come in, all these people are coming, they're all blowing up. And then, and I just think, I think based on what based on what I've found, and I find the dad and I say to the dad, because I'm reading statements as well. And in this all the statements, some of Ellie's friends are again making accusations against the stepdad. Yeah, there's that. But then again, there's accusations everywhere. So Ellie is telling so many people so many different stories about how she's injured about what's happened. And then, yeah, go find the stepdad and come back to your house. And who beat her up? Why did she have the bruises? She goes and buys a hammer during a day. She buys a hammer on CCTV. When she's beat up, they find the hammer. It's only her day and night. Only her day and night. Right next to her, her mum's house with the field. So she's say, was it dad the answer now? Well, no, again, I haven't said any, I haven't put forward other, there's lots of other allegations. But again, they're just hearsay or they're coming from her. Now, bearing in mind what she said about him, bearing in mind what she said about the other boys, you can't say anything she said is totally unreliable. Was she on a home or anything? Was she on her parents watching? How do you must have knew that? Well, her mum's a Labour counsellor and her nan's in charge of social services, children in Barrow. Her family. When did it start turning for you more? When did you start believing, okay, like this, things are starting to go in your favour? Well, the favour just January. January the 4th or actually when the trial took place just three weeks ago. Yeah, in October when the trial took place. I put together, I was putting together everything. Police nick me. They gave me an order. Yeah. I can't contact him. The business gagged you. They gagged me. You can't contact him. They named all these people I couldn't contact. All these, all these, I went lad into Cumbria. Yeah, they escorted me. When they let me go the next day, they give me a police escort. They followed me all the way out of Cumbria. I said, what are you doing? You're banned from Cumbria. So then I made a video. I said all I can say is things are not as they seem. Yeah. So I sort of like allow people to know there's bullshit going on up here. Yeah. But I wasn't allowed to say anything else. So if I was allowed to do my report, which I was building and doing, I would have put out straight away saying this. And that would have been 2020. Yeah. And from 2020, I think the lot of the trouble that we as a family have had and as a community we've had in 2021-22 coming up to this, you know what, if he did what he was set out to do then, Tommy, it would have probably made my life a lot easier. Because a lot of people who don't trust the system and don't trust the police will trust me in what I'm saying. And I can't say that that girl's not been a victim of abuse somewhere along the line by someone who knows who. Yeah. Because her life's messed. It's pretty strange when you go through the history of it and what she's done and all the different mad stuff she's done. It's and then to still now not come out and speak the truth. It's like she's covering for someone. She's covering something. Yeah. I'd say. And look at the mother, the look at the mother. The mother's still saying it. The mother's still saying it. The mother's still saying he's, it's him. It's me. And the mother knows me. The grandmother knew me. The auntie, it was one of our best friends. Right. We were always together with the auntie, in a sense. weren't we, Nicola, and for years. And I used to go and seek advice of the grandma. I got, in her statement, she says that she was groomed when she started working at the elephant, which Mo owns. Yeah. So when I found her family, I, the first thing I asked is, where did Ellie work? What was her first job? And blah, blah, blah. Did she work at the elephant? And he said, no, she's never worked at the elephant. But she's, she's a girl who's lived with her mom, dad her whole life. Yeah. They'd know if her first job was at his restaurant restaurant. They'd know. And I said, so I thought, well, that even that ain't true. Yeah. So this ain't true. This ain't true. This is a lie. This is a lie. And then Joe, I realized as well how dangerous or the power of the media. Yeah. Because there was enough there that I could have put together a report that made it look like it's him easily. Yeah. Made it look like there is a cover-up. Yeah. Some people are still doing that now. I just watched a video. You sent me a video of someone, a red pill. Red pill, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's making videos accusing the boy who was falsely accused, accusing all of them. All of them. So implying that there's this big cover-up going on, without knowing one single detail of this case. But I've read all of the details of this case. Lots of people pumped it, Maggie Oliver pumped it. They didn't even, they're only an hour at the road. They didn't even go and contact the people. Even though they knew those false claims, they still stood by the case. Now, I, now this is a mad thing. So when the police went into, when the police arrested her for the, arrested Jordan Trengrove, when they went into her house when she was laying on the floor, they took her phone. And this is how manipulative it is. They took her phone and on her phone in her deleted file, she had messages from Rami. Yeah. So I could have took that with the statement which I've got from the copper, which I've read to you. I went to your house to question you about this. So I went and said, what's this thing? Because I've got this which mentioned you before. Yeah. What they also found is, madly, they also found letters. Letters, letters. Rami letters. To say that you had wrote to her. Say that he'd wrote to her from when he was in jail. He hasn't been in jail. Durham, the thing I was in Durham prison at the time. But I fucking wasn't. Wait, the handwriting experts, it's her writing. She'd wrote her self letters. She says he stole her kid that she's never had. Had. I was going to sell him, but basically, the one of the letters indicates that I was going to sell him to somebody in Pakistan and they would have made mine and her life, we would have been sorted. Is this, she must have mental health problems. She had mental health reports that she's psychotic. I asked her that, I asked her that. Or else somebody's telling her to do this or she's deflecting away from somebody. So that's, that's, that's. I don't think we're at the bottom of what's going on. I don't know if any of the police are. Are you going to keep working on it until you find out? You had enough? No, I've still got a lot of questions. A lot of questions, I think. To her, was she ever speak to you that girl? Who knows? How old is she now? 22. 22. And she's just been charged with? 9, 9, 9, 9, 9 counts of preventing the course of justice. And one of the charges, she pleaded guilty, mid-trial. Mid-trial. She were basically, the arrest of the mother because there was evidence that got released, so the judge was basically given order. A mam knew, yeah? Yeah, a mam knew. A mam knew. A mam knew. A mam knew. She works for the Labour Party. She's been sacked. You know what, I've got, the actor's a man, the mayor of Bolton is a good family friend. Right? No, counsellors all over the country. And I've asked every single body, and I put loads of complaints in regard to that. If this was any other town or any other council, what would have happened to you? They said we would have been suspended instant. Mate, there's a hell of a lot going on in Barrow, yeah? Yeah. I've started looking at the charities that are linked to the family. Family, yeah. It's like, it seems like it's a closed web, yeah? It's been on the lockers. They're all making a lot of money. Well, it's been on the lockers for years. That's what I've started looking at, is what's going on in this town. How has this happened? What, there's funding like a million pounds was given to a charity that Anand's on the trustee? Trustee and his business. Why you though? Why did they throw you under the bus? Why were you targeted? Was there a connection? Is it got to do with your businesses? Is that... Yeah, because when I got into the ice creaming, we started to, we applied for the street trading license and stuff. And the reason they refused me, okay, I've got a bit of a history. So my DBS wouldn't have come clear. So I didn't apply for it. My partner applied for it, and my cousin that's done ice creaming for 35 years in Wigan. And he gets a Wigan trustee trading license every year. And he's been doing it for 35 years. They own the Manfridi Dairy in Bolton, right? They've got about 30 ice cream ones. And these two applied for the license and you know the Barotown All. Refuse the license under the basis of your affiliated with Muhammad Ramzan. And this was done in 2016 and 2017. What have I done? What does that mean? What does that mean? Because she's my partner. To me comes two things. I think you've got a problem with an Asian man coming and doing the ice creaming, but you didn't have a problem when I had the bigger businesses. And I was paying £70,000 business rates. I was paying £30,000 in the Bajorj. You didn't mind then? Well now I've come into that's not... I don't know. But there is something in that town or that was a right. So you're mental health as well. Do you not hack yourself for bottles and suicides as well? Yes, I did. When did that take its toll on you? That took me so when I found my son actually the build up of it and he started self-harming because he was getting abused in college and he was getting abused on the van. He didn't tell me. And I thought, no problem. So then I got arrested. And now a week or two before we're dealing with my son in this state. Then they arrested me 7-7-9-19. Then two weeks later he had a meltdown and he just didn't want to be there and his dad let's move. Nicola's there, my mate Jonathan's there. And we're just like... And that was it. And seeing him going back and... I just felt like... I've... What have I done? You know, I've bought my kids to my life. I've missed out on the last four years, five years when I got my ride together when I got with Nicola. I've lost out on their life four or five years which to me is my massive part. And I'm bringing me here and now what have I done to the kid? You know, why is he going through this pain? And that to me was it just made me feel shit man. That was... And that keeps getting to me. And then I just went to war. I went to the battle. I just went... I went to survival really. It was survival. Then I'm not gonna... You know, your dad's been called a pedo. Dad, you've been called a pedo. That's what he said to me. And it hurts you when your son... You know, your oldest son is saying that it's... It just... It knows... And he's still... Now, he was just... Oh God, James, he was fucking horrible. And then I'm dealing with that and I've got to be strong. I've got to deal with the character of my family man. I've got to call the character of my respect. I'm from a good family. The fair play mate. Even me just sitting. I can tell you're a good man. And like I say, you wouldn't be on this show and Tommy wouldn't be sitting with you if he thought you were guilty or anything like that. Like you say, we've all got passed. We've all done fucking stupid shit. We're not here about that. We're talking about a massive scandal that celebrities actually came and supported. Like, have you guys ever had apology for anybody? Not a single one. Well, the same... When I got to the town, the same person who was supporting it was telling everyone not to talk to me. So I'm there, I said, we've been told not to talk to you. I'm like... And I don't know. I just said, all I want to do is find out what's going on and investigate what's going on. And that's it. And you know, because then we found... Because there was things that we're adding but we found out that she'd been upstairs in above one of the restaurants but you don't go through the restaurant to get to it with a Muslim male. Yeah? But then I found... So she's having sex with some Muslim males in the town. Now, then I'm thinking, right, is she a victim to these males? But then there's another Muslim male who was found in bed with her one time, yeah? And there's text messages going back and forward where she thinks she's pregnant and he's messaging her. And all of the evidence doesn't say that. It's him messaging her saying, I want to be a part of the life. If you've got my baby inside, you want to help you or want to this or want to that. So when you go through what's being said, there's nothing being said that would give any evidence to the fact of what she's claiming. Least of all, again, least of all, the problem is, you see, if she hadn't falsely accused Jordan Trengrove and falsely accused the boy at school and falsely accused someone else, he's probably being jailed. I'd be munged off, wonderful. But they were trying to remind me that day. After they've brought me 40, I was in questioning and I've gone in. It was disgusting. The questioning was disgusting. You know, I don't think that was professional, any of it. The lady officer turned around and she goes to me, how's your sex life with your partner? You use, I thought, what do you mean by use? You know, you're like your... Then I said, what do you mean by use? You're like younger girls, don't you? Your culture, your religion. I thought, well, no, I'm gone. What's that got to do with religion and culture? I said, no, I'm into me older women. I said, you know what? If I have an affair. And I did, you know what I said? I said, that's what you got. This is disgusting. What is it? I go, I kind of... What's all this? I'm not listening to this. I'm not sitting here listening to this. That's what you know what, love? I think you're a bit frustrated, aren't you? I don't think that's your sex life. Are you getting it at all? Then the male officer speaks up and he goes, you know what I'm saying? It's inappropriate. What is inappropriate? I said, the question you're fucking asking me aren't inappropriate. I can't ask this. I said, you know what? I'll tell you something. And she goes, they thought, oh, he's going to confess something. I said, you know what? I did have an affair, probably with Nicholas, man, because I'm going to be all the women. I said, she's 80-yard now, so I'll probably be her next. And that was just what I had to do. That was just me. I come out of your house and said, like I said, when I walked out of his house, I said, he reminds me of myself. When I went through all the stuff he's done, because I thought that's how he's dealing with it. Because I think these protests are going on, they're all accusing him of being a pedophile. He's gone down his ice cream van and put the ice cream van lights on as he's driving past, waving that. Yeah, and the MP elections. I got him jumped in the van. I thought, fucking chubbies, are you rising here? I'm going to go and see him. I said, no, so I just put my jingle on, drove around, I went back. But it makes you angry, and you feel as if you've got to stand at the forefront to prove that they're innocent. So if you kill her away, then you're already defeated. You may as well win the fucking the nonsense wing. Yeah. I mean, how hard was it for you to see somebody who was innocent getting through under the bus? Well, I just, yeah. Does that ever make you question, like, if you were at the forefront with grooming gangs, and it definitely made me. So previously to this, I've done an investigation in Telford where I spent 12 to 18 months with 12 girls who were all been victims and I detailed their stories. And only when the name men were named by three. Yeah. Did I go after the men? All right. Because I thought we've got victim A, victim C, victim F. They don't even know each other. They're all telling me that Bugsy, this man, has done this, this and this. Yeah. So then I know, because you can never, I could never go to town, take one girl sitting here saying he's done this because I don't know what motive she may have. I don't know what's happened. Yeah. Just to, for her to be saying that. I can't go. And but it did make me even think more when I sat in his house thinking Jesus, but like the effect of being labeled like this. Yeah. The effect of being labeled like this without a fair, without a trial. I said, so what he's faced is trial by public opinion. I faced that all the time, but not for nothing like this. No. Yeah. So I faced that and I can still walk around. But would I be able to walk around with sexual allegations against me where not where everyone bought into them, where everyone believed I was a nonce because he's in his town where everyone believes he's a nonce. But then still a lot of people are still coming up to me saying, no, he fucking in. He's a lads. All right. He's a jack, the lads. He sticks it in your face a bit. He's a hot. So I said, but that doesn't make him a child trafficker. Yeah. So even when I sat with other people, yeah, but he's this and he's done this and he's like this and this is sort of, I said, that don't make him a pedophile. People wanted you to be a. Yeah, they did. Yeah. No, they did. A lot of people wanted him to. See that case is well told when you're outside with a camera and people are saying you could have jeopardized it. There's that. Could you have jeopardized that? Does that make you think about the victims just in case you did? Um, no. So people have been lied to about that case. What I said is these men are innocent. I exceed my words. These men are innocent of proven guilty. They might walk out of that court and go home. Yeah. I'm not saying I'm not presuming they're guilty at all. What I'm saying is here's what they've been charged with. Yeah. This how many of them there are. This is the crimes they're alleged to have done. I said alleged the whole time. And as they walked in, I said, how do you feel about your verdicts? Now, previously to that, there had been a court case a few years before where when they're coming in, I said, you pedophiles. I was angry. They come in, one of them tried to square up. And I did presume they're guilty. Yeah. But that wasn't this. Yeah. So that was another, and it was before any trial. So there was no jury. Yeah. But I realized I went on a training course myself before this last court case when I questioned them. I put myself in a training course for the best law firm in London because I'm a citizen journalist. I've become a journalist. I don't know the laws around court. I didn't know any of this stuff. So when I had my first thing done in Canterbury Court, which was a, there was a case where five men, a young girl was 15 and she was drunk and she got lost. So he went and took her to a pub shop and said, do you know the way to this? They took her upstairs, five of them. They all raped her. Yeah. Now this was, they were on bail. So they're on bail. This is the case. They're on bail. So I find out they're on bail. They changed the name of the shop. Just changed the name of the shop. So I went down. I looked and I spoke to the shop next door. I said, the schoolgirl's going here. They said, yeah. I said, so at the end of school, there's kids in it. I said, yeah. I said, all right. So for me, I wanted to warn the people. So I waited outside the court the next day, stood on the steps, said there's men on bail. They're running a chicken shop. Yeah. And they're on bail for these allegations. Now all those men were convicted. They got 20 years in jail. Yeah. They found all their DNAs. She was raped in every hole she had. She was brutally raped and destroyed. One of them fled the country whilst he was on bail. Now I was arrested. I went home from this little reporter done outside the court and they come from a door at six in the morning. Yeah. Dragged me before the judge in Canterbury and he'd done me for contempt of court for filming because my feet were on the steps of the court. Yeah. So I thought, well, I don't know any of these laws. So I put myself on a course. Yeah. Spent thousands. Yeah. Put myself on a course for the best law firm in London to teach me about contempt of court, to teach me what I can and can't do. You can't presume guilt because you'll jeopardize the trial. I found out all the things I had to do. So when I went to Leeds, this is years later, I'd done everything I was meant to do. I went in, I took a photo of the screen because there was no mention of a reporting restriction. My issue was these reporting restrictions, which does it does it change my mind on that? Probably in the sense that I don't think any man accused of rape, their name should be out there now. Yeah. After seeing what's happened to him, after seeing what's happened to Jordan Trenquiffe, after witnessing it myself, until they're convicted by a by a by a jury, then they should not have their lives destroyed. Yeah. That's because until they're convicted. So that's and that. But before, yeah, because I yeah, before I probably wouldn't have been of that opinion because every trial that come up or any name that come up, I guess I was presuming they guilt myself. Why do you think there's not much support for men male, especially with things like this? Because no matter that girl's got a guilty, you're still going to have those question marks over your head. I'm not a walkie-talkie. Why is there no support for men? Because girls should be getting bigger sentences for a male getting a rape charge and getting four years, five years. Girls should be getting fucking double. They're destroying lice for accusations. They're making it worse for them. Real, real, real, real victims. Why do you think men, we get the rough end of the stick because some, a girl says that, that's like your charge, you're done. You're done. Why do you think male don't get the support that we should be getting as well? Because of the sensitivity of the accusation, isn't it? It's the me too. When I went up to Jordan Trengrove and I found out that, say like Maggie Oliver's organisation were fully supporting Ellie. Yes they were. So Jordan Trengrove sends her all the information that she's been falsely accused of rape. She continues supporting Ellie. No one supports Jordan Trengrove. No one support us every time. Has anyone contacted you? Any organisations, any groups? Anyone counselling her? Not a single thing. So for two years these men and the police are fully aware, the counsellor aware that this girl was falsely accused and with the evidence was untold evidence. So just so, because some people are still watching this thinking it's true. For example, when she went to Blackpool, she said she was trafficked. Like I'll let you explain. Yeah. This is all come out and caught. It's ridiculous. She goes, she travelled to Blackpool under my orders. She was trafficked and groomed there. And yeah, she got a train that she booked on her own phone. The best thing is she had two phones. One was from women's community matters. This is a charity now that her nuns are trustee of. And it's a safe phone. So every phone call you make and every message you send is manuscripted. So it's all getting logged somewhere. So she's now sending messages from this phone to her normal phone pretending it's me telling her go there, do this. So she books herself in Savoy on Booking.com. That's the IP address on the VPN is linked to her mum's address. Gets to the Booking.com. Goes to her, walks her down as a new an ASEAN registration of cars at the Sea at Ibiza that they caught, they told us. She basically sees the car and she's seen. Stop looking at the Sea at Ibiza. Black one. Jots down the number plate. Car is on walking. Goes and buys. Bombay bad boys. Pot noodle. This is now offensive to me. Go go and get Bombay fucking bad boys. Now you can't just don't do that. So then it goes back to the hotel and watches iPlayer on YouTube. All night and then gets back on the train, gets back to Barrow and tells her mum comes and ends up saying that she's been trafficked and raped. Something's going on there. Something's going on. It's not that it's hard to know. Who's funding that as well? A travel cost and all the other shit? What were the community matters? Was she watching? You see I started getting down this rabbit hole thinking this is all a setup. Yeah. This is all a setup. Could there have been competition worth people you work with? I think it is. I think it originally started off like that. It does get over and just been manipulated and just got boys getting used. Yeah. Yeah. I went down the other one where I started suspecting that this is a setup and a honey trap. They don't care about him getting done or they don't care about the accusations but this will damage any future cases. So that was my concern when I got there. I thought well hold on. If she is lied about this and she's lying about this how are any other girls going to think they can come forward? Because everyone's going to say I like Barrow. Yeah, I like Barrow. That's what's going to come from this which was my concern. My concern is girls aren't going to feel like they can come forward and talk now. They're going to be presumed that they're lying. And these cases are genuine in the majority of the cities when it's gone on. Again with multiple other victims. But as I said I couldn't find any other victims in Barrow and I spent time there and spoke to everyone and was questioning everyone. And the lies, so Jordan Trengrove she falsely accused him of rape sets him up, creates evidence. When they find out it's all fake they come and bring him a court he gets discharged from the court and that's when they arrest her. So I went to the demonstration that was going on. That's the first demonstration. The first demonstration. Barrow, she was getting the jewel. No, I didn't even know she was getting done for preventing the cause of justice. The jewel or this? I knew, yeah, I knew and I didn't know Moe. So I knew all these other names. Yeah. But I didn't know about Moe till after when I come to your house they have found out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think a week or so you were looking into. I got the files like that given to me. When did you get charged with that? Ages before, weren't it? No, I see what I think. That's when I looked here. I thought you falsely accused three men of rapier. Now you're getting done for it. So what fits? The day before. You know this charge is coming. She knows what she's done. It was Muslims. And they trafficked me. That's what I thought. That's clever. Because now you've got the public sport. Yeah. Whereas you and that's the reason why you've said these men raped you. That's what I thought. That's what I was trying to. But many times I've gone down different paths thinking what's she doing? What is this? Has this gone on? Why has she done that? But then my main concern was this is going to discredit many victims. This is going to be a absolute catastrophe for victims of sexual exploitation in towns and cities that have happened in control of Muslim gangs. That's my thing. I thought this is terrible. Yeah. That's terrible. Their lives fucked off it. And I don't think that. I don't think any media who could have come out, there were no restrictions, they could have come out and made it very clear to people what had gone on previously to this. The dad, the mum knew what had gone on. A lot of people in that town knew what had gone on. But no one mentioned it. So the way it looked, no one knew she'd falsely accused other men. No one knew. Everyone thought when they were reading false accusations, she's imprisoned for false accusations. They all think it's false accusations against Mo Rami, Muslim man, Muslim man, Muslim business, Muslim business. So that's the way it was portrayed to the whole British public. And not the British public, the world public. The world public. Rwanda, Rwanda, they went to Rwanda, they did on YouTube. I can't believe it. Somebody sent me a link. And there's like four Rwanda guys and they're doing the, just as well, they were doing the dance man, went on the wall. And I'm like, you are. I just looked at Nika, I said, love. I said, what can you do around Rwanda? Right. It's ridiculous. Life spreads around the world. How difficult is it going to be to go to Tommy for exposing grooming gangs and you always been at the forefront. How does that then change your models to then it doesn't change mine. I just hope it doesn't. It can affect it because people will then use this card that Yeah, they're fake. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it definitely is open the door to that now. It's open the door to it. But what it's also done is given a, or has the opportunity to give a voice to men, Muslim or non Muslim who have been in this position who are up and down the country. Lots of men are in this position. Yeah. Lots of men have lost their livelihoods, their jobs, their reputations, their careers, everything through false accusations. Yeah. It's a very complex issue because you've got women who are victims but then you've also got some twisted women who are making things up. Yeah. And by the, there has to be some sort of protection given where men are not named until after their verdict. Because mud sticks, mud stuck against moe. Mud, I said to Jordan, so Jordan's been cleared. When I go to Jordan's house, he's been cleared. He hasn't done anything. Everyone's still calling him a pedo. I went to the demonstration 2000 people and I said and I asked to call them Ellie's friends. Who's Jordan Trengrove? And they said, ah, he raped Ellie. I said, he raped Ellie, did he? I said, okay, if he raped Ellie, how come he hasn't been prosecuted? Well, his mum threatened Ellie at the train station. This whole elaborate lie that Ellie's told everyone. And then so she didn't turn up at court and that's why he got off. And I'm sitting there and I think, no, I've read everything. He didn't get off because there was no case bought because she falsified evidence. And then even now, people are using, this is when I can see how the power of this, the power of the media, because I could have easily made it look a certain way. So if I went there with my narrative, which is what the mainstream journalists do all the time, they've got their story before they get somewhere and they make it fit. I've watched them do it. I've watched them do it against me. I've watched them do it against lots of people. And that is dangerous. And you can see and I see in this case how easy that is. How easy to take a couple of statements from there, a couple of lines from there, a couple of lines from there and think, yeah, there you go. There's all the people are doing it now. And that's how that's how it stitched me up. I watched the video yesterday on the build-up of it. That's how they were doing it. Yeah, dirty in the character, first of all. Filthing up the character with accusations, accusations, which all here say. There's lots of accusations. But the problem is, and I watched this video yesterday. You sent me as well. And I thought, this geezer knows nothing about this case at all. Hasn't researched any of the statements. Doesn't know the actual lies this girl's told. Hasn't met anyone in it. And here he is saying it's all bullshit and that they're guilty. Yeah. And that still, so still now, people are be calling him a pedophile. Still now, people are saying he's got off. Still now. Yeah. Still saying you covered it up. It's been a mass cover-up. That's why I know that people, I know that people will trust in what I'm saying in the investigation. And I've said from the start, I've said from the minute, nothing this girl says can destroy another man's life. Yeah. That doesn't mean she's not been a victim somewhere along the line to somebody. Yeah. Because she's certainly messed up. She passed tests. She's not, she's not mentally unwell. So she's not three-syche after the report. She's three-syche after the report. Now the defence has asked for an independent one but which I'm sure the prosecution will cross-examine. Cross-examine. Cross-examine, yeah. But even in the, when they, when she was questioned about having a hammer and she goes out beating yourself up and she, in her statement is, I'm not psychotic. I won't beat myself up with a hammer. Didn't she send a message to her mum? Didn't she send a message? That was when, yeah, I was saying that before when she got her mother got arrested in mid-trial. Yeah. And she had sent a letter, they found a letter and this was bought up in court that same, she basically wrote a letter from prison to her sister saying, take the hammer, it's in such and such a place, give it to mum. Mum knows what to do with it, it needs to get to my solicitor. So now there's these two hammers, one hammer was found, then they bought another one to kind of say, no, this is the hammer she's got. So. Again, that's part of the course of justice. Because of just her poetry. Has the mum been charged? No, mum was, this is the funny part, isn't it? The mum's been arrested. Right. And she said, I can't say that. She said she sent an email to somebody. Yeah. And so the mum's been picked up. Mid-trial, she was at seven, eight, eight point seven, preventing the course of justice charges. She goes guilty on one. Mum's released. So there's a plea deal. So mum's been released. Then she's pleaded guilty on one. So now it drops to six. Instead, it went up to eight. So she's going to go guilty on one at eight, providing the cause of charges, justice charges going on. So when she got the verdict, she got nine charges, nine accounts. So she, when she got a go at it, what was going through your mind then, after years of torture, kind of coming to her head? Yeah. Is that a relief of you? Kind of tired? It was a relief that, to me, was going up. Because, well, they tell you, he gets all of it now, because he talks to missing kids and everything they tell him. You know, it consumed my life. You know, imagine a man for three years, six, in his living room, till six o'clock in the morning, seven o'clock till they get up, and then I go to bed, because I'm watching that thing. I'm called a paranoid. I'm not. And then I'm watching everything on social media. Every social media, I've got some laptops there. So you're there. A fucking wind blowed a piece of kind of past the door. And I'd be downstairs with the bloody hammer or a pipe or something, just, you know, somebody's in the shop or somebody's in my house. It's not right. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's nice, but it's an image. Yeah, because you're a good man. Did you could have lost your son and then you got away with it? That's really, your life's not ruined because she's been found guilty. It does take time, but these podcasts are good for that life. I know you're a Muslim man as well. That touch on the religion side of things like, what has been a Muslim to you? You know what? When they arrested me, I now got banged up. And the public, the CCTV there, the first thing I did was, for the course of practice, got pen paper, dropped in a few things down. I thought to myself, you know, I've been in that a few times in the cop shop and stuff. I know the thing. I thought, this one, this is the big one. This, I've never, this, I don't know. I got, but did me a pollution. They happened to sell, they have an arrow, say, Ghibler that way. So I just got that blue mat with the plastic thing. I faced that way. I didn't get too knuffled, they called it. And to me, that's just an extra prayer you do. And I said, God, I know, I've done that, that, that, that, that. Right. Oh, and again, that. Please, thank you, man. Well, I haven't done this, this, this, this, what they're saying. I've not done this. So, I've got play faith. It's blind. I believe in God. I love, I don't push on anybody. It's my belief. You know, I'm a Western man as well, living in Western society. So I've got my balance of my religion and my culture and my culture. I've got my parents' culture. I've got the tradition. I've got values. I've got morals. And I've got my religion. And I think if you, you know, if you put it all together, it's a very good concoction. But it's, it's how you misinterpret it. It's how you interpret it, interpret it. If I want to misinterpret it, you know, I don't agree with the radicalism. I don't get agreed with any, anything that's radical. Or, you know, the bombings and the killings. No, not just totally wrong. That Islam does not say that. And you know that as well, something. It does in times, mate. It's a great thing now. It would. Let's do another one. Joe, Joe, when I went, when I started looking at him, I went for all of his Facebook and I went back years. Yeah. And I found he was very pro. He had Winston Churchill quotes. He was celebrating when it was in George's Day. And he event, he saw like, he was pro. Yeah. Which is very patriotic. He come across as very patriotic. And then I come across, and he stand there with, with this, it was hilarious to me. Because I'm looking for him. This is years before. And he just thought of the beauty. Everyone knows him as Rami. He's wearing wear change. When I'm standing as an MEP, he's got his wear change on. And he's called himself Rami Ruppinson. This is years before. He's not mocking me off, but mocking me off years before. I'm looking through for you. He's cheeky fucker. Who's this cheeky fucker? I had the action enchantment there. That was on the change of day. My face is open about six months I kept to his Rami Ruppinson. So he's on the line that, yeah, that's his character. As you can see. But being with Rami, like, how has it changed anything with you? Has it changed certain people, certain beliefs? Because obviously, look, he's a good guy. He's made these mistakes. He's fucked up. He admits that. Like, he's all back. People always presume that I judge all Muslims as one big group. Yeah. I talk about Islam. I separate the ideology from the people. As I've, and people, many of the times I've met some of my best mates are Muslim. Lots of people I love growing up are Muslim. So, but people have this opinion that I just automatically hate Muslims. Because of the English defensively, because of my stance on the religion, because of these things. So, meeting Mo has just, it confirmed that, it confirmed how important it is that accusations are not made against people without every bit of evidence. Which everyone does, I think. Everyone would have done over the years. And also, I guess, he also confirmed that. And it's been a difficult one, because you've got these groups in all these towns. There are victims in all these towns. And my, first of all, a concern has been with these girls, yeah, and what's happening to them. And then I've seen, I have looked at the other side of it, because there's been quite a few men found not guilty in these trials as well, yeah? In these grooming trials. So, there's been men discharged, but lots of people would still presume they're guilty, I guess. They've been found not guilty in a court of law, yeah? So, but some people, including myself, probably was still thinking, I think you've done it, yeah? Without knowing every single detail of evidence, because we haven't gone for every detail of evidence, we've just read the headline, not most people do. So, yeah, it's been a, the whole thing was, all I knew, he's a character, he's a lovely man, he's got a lovely family. Right's right and truth's truth. And it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter if I, as I said, I went there with a list of men's names to find dirt on them and dig on them. Yeah, okay. But for sexual exploitation, for sexual exploitation, for rape, for these, yeah, you went to expose them. I went to expose them. How much was your religion used on this case? Not, I won't say much, really. It was in the sense of, not me personally as an adult, but as a general, you mean that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh God, yeah, the Muslim, the Muslim grooming gang. See, that's the thing, isn't it? That gives it, that give attraction. That, you put, there's loads of grooming gangs. There's African grooming gangs, there's white grooming gangs. They're all over. I do believe now, being put into this, before I was a guy that, you know, with something like this, it repulsed me. I've got a daughter, need a 22. I've got 18 nieces. You know, it's, how many? 18. See what I want to buy? Demographics! I've got one! We're reading that rubbish! That's a tear cover! Do you know, double little bit numbers! Do you know what the dangerous thing is? And this is the government's fault, and this is the police's fault. Because of their inability and their unwillingness to deal with real crimes that have been happening for decades, yeah. And what has been a cover-up, that's why everyone believed this is a cover-up. Cover-up, yeah. That's why, everyone didn't trust the police. If you'd have been truthful in your job for the last 30 years in Rotherham, in Telford, in all these towns and cities, and you're just a dealt with criminals as criminals when they're doing these crimes and not covered them up for sake of diversity and not hid these crimes, you, we live in a dangerous time now where no one believes the media, no one believes them on the, on the, I'll say, begins with co and ends in D and you stick it in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we had to bleep. I know, because they'll just get, because they'll delete it. I was an excuse to take it down. But that's an insanity time so we live in here. But no one trusts anything which is dangerous times because innocent people's lives have been destroyed, probably left, right and centre across the country because of everyone's suspicion of what's true because no one knows what's true anymore. They've, they've muddied, dirtied the line so much that you listen to the media, you see the news and I think you're lying. So when you see this, and if it suits people's narrative of what they believe, then it fits it. And that's it, that's it. That's it, that's it. Narrative, narrative. Unfortunately for this, it fitted it. When did you start believing in Tommy and Trostrom because you must have been sceptical especially the work that you've done. 100% like I said, I was one of his fucking... This is a handshake job. Yeah, I was one of, you know, it's like, we're telling him last night and I used to be like, Tommy Robinson, it's this, this, and I'm telling my kids, I'm not even messing with him, just seeing on social media. I was the same mate, I used to follow you on social media. Three, four years ago I wrote my podcast more than fucking anything. Messaging every day, fucking back and on to it. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe he's just fucking brainwashed. I used to do that. Yeah, but then you go media, didn't it? Media there. Yeah. But you know what it was? When he'd gone to that man, come home, we sat down, it's like we say, I haven't even had to shave my head off. I had to look like a thug, meeting Tommy Robinson and be like, I had to go and shave my head. I think I got a bottle, hold me that day. I don't wear a hoodie, this doesn't mean, this is my normal dress sense. I had to go to a meeting Tommy, I had got my hair shaved. They got a whole day, I thought, I love the part. I mean, Trostrom's in that. I was mental. But you know what? It's what you just said earlier. And when he sat in that, my delivery, and he looked over at my kids and everything, and he just, me and, because you were the horses, and when you buy something, you come back and just me and my boys there. They're downstairs, he walks in, we've had that bloody thing at the door, shut me on, shut the kids' hands, and he just looked at her, what's up? First he complimented, and he goes, nice house, man, like it. Very nice, I'm doing teary design on that boy now. And he just stood and looked at my boys. He didn't speak to me, and he just stood and looked at my lads. And this is where I judge from a man's character. When he looked at my lads, I thought, is he wearing your mop? I thought, what the hell is he saying? Is he going to be a scuffle in me? Oh, oh, oh. No, he just looked, and he sits, I won't sit down, sits down, he goes, how's it affected them? That's his first, it's openly lying in my front room, I think it was something along the line. How would they do it? Why? Why? Because I just, because I thought, because I know how it affects mine. So I know how, when people lie about me, I think that's affecting my kids. When the media printed stories, it's bullshit, it's affecting my kids. So I've already known that there's certainly big discrepancies and possibilities that this is a lie. And then you've got a family who's, and then I look and think, how'd you do it as a kid? I probably still don't even know if they know how they've, how they've dealt with it, or really took in the adverse effect of it. Because that's the worst thing you could ever be called. And every young boy looks up to their dads. So to him, that's his hero. Yeah? No matter what, no matter even if you do wrong, you're still, you're your son's hero. So your hero is now being called a nonce by the whole town. Has that stole something you struggle with? To be honest with you, I do. I'm getting back out there. I was a very sociable person. And the thing, the whole thing is, because I was in hospitality. I had restaurants. I had wine bars. I had nightclubs in Barrow. You know, in the town centre. And I was always out. I was, you know, we used to go out three, four times a day. Then obviously you've self-imprisoned ourselves. And now getting out of that, for me in Barrow, I find it difficult. I do find it difficult. Even though I've got good staunch mates there, as well, English lads. And you know what? They're exactly going through the same thing. Ross, Rick Wilson, everything. You know, one of them is even sons. Even one of their lads, Rick Wilson's Frankie, weren't it? A mate of mine, right? And he stood up for me. And he knew what was happening with me. And at the age of 13, that kid has been called. Oh, your Paki lovers. Attacks. In school, man. Oh, your dad supports Peter Files. Paki Peter Files. Now, Frankie, that lad was going through that. And then Rick contacted me one day. And he goes, I'm me. I'm... He stands up for the right things. And he goes, it's pissed me off. But you know, my kid's getting bullied now. But I just want you to know, if I can't, I'm not going to say. But I'm always on your sport. I'm here for you. But I'm not going to be on the social media thing. Because he's getting attacked. I thought, which is fair enough. I understand that. But Rick, thank you very much. You've done that. But how shits that though, man? That these people with now sending their kids. So anybody that spoke up to me to pick on their kids. And then two of the lads. And they go, well, they've got... They've got... They were very sociable. Did loads of events and stuff. And they feel like disconnected with Barrow now. And it's not nice, is it? It's the whole thing of it. And everyone can say now, oh, you know, oh, we're sorry. Or, you know, now all the friend requests are coming back. And you know, I'd like two and a half thousand, three thousand people on my Facebook. Which I was not as big as him. Like a band. And you're my... I ain't got any. But it was... Then you just watch it. Everybody coming, declining, declining, declining. And you're thinking, I'm gone. You're going to Tesco. Just to wind it up. When I used to go to Congo. But I go and get a couple of things. If I'm going to the big Tesco. You just wind it up. Because I won't be back for about an hour. Every aisle I'll stop and talk to somebody. And I'm going in and nobody's looking at me. Everybody's just looking at me. And I'm just thinking. I thought, this is... Nick, this isn't right. What the hell's happening here? You know, there could be even the people that you're looking at. I'm letting on. They have an eye contact like that. And then you're thinking, oh, are they out? But it is big accusations. So people are apologising, protecting themselves. If you've got somebody's back, man, you don't turn on them. Like I say, if they get a gulp and then you go, you know, what the fuck, I'm sorry. But when it's those accusations, man, let... Everyone's doing it now, isn't it? Everyone's doing it now over a certain time. Andrew Tate, we've been at the forefront. We've kind of had these back and... People are hammering me. Even my own supporters are hammering me. And I'm saying, especially with this case. You cannot judge what's gone on until you see every bit of evidence. And I'm sorry. But so far, everything don't end up with this case. So you want me to what? And I said to my own supporters in the comments, I lost so many. We had monthly subscribers. They all cancelled. And I said, you want me to hang them, man? Based on what? The media are telling me. You want me to hang someone, based on what the media are telling you about sexual allegations? It's not happening, man. It's not happening. Oh, not just proofs are not there. You can't do it until the proof's not there. And when it's the proofs there, then, okay. It's not. But like I said, I spoke to his lawyer then, as well a couple of days ago. There's no evidence whatsoever. People have came forward and said, the girls who got jailed that day, they were all partying in the house. There's videos of them all partying in the house. Yeah. And the police took the CCTV for the last five months. Someone give it back. Yeah. So. And the Romanian police. Unless they're keeping them to try and find something. They're trying to get something to stick. They're trying to get together. Because if they let them out without any charges, he's going to become so big. He's going to be 10 times bigger than what he is. Yeah. But he'll struggle. Will he struggle with his character? But these are the worst kind of accusations. And again, it's like, again, I just think that when I spoke to yourself, I spoke to Jordan, I said, how do you stop this happening to another man? How do you stop it happening to another man? Because it doesn't matter if you've been found not guilty. You might stick. Now, hopefully most cases have gone that big that everyone gets to see the evidence that's gone on and get to see that this was a lie. But in other towns to see, when a man's accused of rape, it doesn't matter if he gets off. He's still viewed as rapist. Rapist. People say, well, yeah, okay. They still believe it. So there has to be some sort of, something has to be put in to protect men from having to go through. Any of these families have had to go through? Yeah. What was your friends seeing when you started teaming up with Tommy? Oh, it's a mix. It's a mix. My majority of my real friends, close friends, and then the associates, they let me, mentally-wide, they, we have the similar kind of intelligence. And they were like, open view, go with an open, open thingy and have a sit down and discuss. And, you know, you're both sensible. You'll know. They'll always like, you'll know. Over some of my mates have actually, they love him. Well, you don't be able to, but some of them got a billion, all them. They're like, they love him. They've always loved him. And we're like, you know, we're having arguments with that. We're all, it's Tommy Robinson. He's done this. He's done that. Well, he was like, no, you niggas, you don't know what he's doing. We have get some support. I look at the comments. It's 95% love from every background, every religion. Like, it's not a case of, when the first podcast we done three years ago, it was kind of, I've seen the people who were supporting it. Now it's changed, man. Like, it genuinely has. Like, I think people question everything now, since I can't say the word. Yeah. Since that. Since that, since Ukraine, since all the, I think like, I said myself, I'd say, look at the world differently now. Just think you're lying to us about everything. So what changes then for you going forward for the future with everything that you've done in the past? For me, I'd continue my journalism. People trust what I say, more than any other journalist in this country, I believe, I believe that the public trust in what I'm saying. So if I put science together and say, this is how this is what I found, then people trust it. I've got two, two episodes to finish. One, I'm going to absolutely ruin the council in Telford, expose them so bad with what I've got, which shows why it was allowed to happen in Telford when you see at the top, there's allegations going all the way to the top. But I just want to continue to my work and my journalism. So somebody who's came at the forefront and stood by your side when everybody turned their back that, when you see Tommy getting attacked, but how do you feel? I know when the people call him racist, I stand up for that. I'll challenge that. I question it. And anybody that I know, and I've said like I said, I will stand up anywhere and say, Tommy's not racist. Don't say that. It's not true. And he's got his views on the Islam thing. That's, that's, that's what we're still talking about. Maybe I might, might persuade him to change certain views. Certain views. I'll make you an apostate for what happens. It's true. What happens if you, if I'm, if I'm asking it, I'm going to have to back up with Andrew Tate. I know, I'm waiting for that. That's what I was lining up. Andrew Tate, her clash. But no, that's his, that's his thingy. I don't think he's, if you understand what he goes against it when he talks about Islam and Muslims, he goes about the radicals. He ain't talking about a Muslim like me. He ain't talking about a Muslim like my son. He ain't talking about us normal, real Muslims. He's talking about the radical Muslims. And that I would stand with him if he was doing going there. You know, as long as he doesn't go to the degree of writing your Quran or anything, then you know what I mean? That's, it's wrong. You know what I mean? That, but it's just having respect. And I think it's like I watched his video the other day. And I think Tommy's maturing himself with his, where he used to handle his campaigns and go and deal with them. And that's him now going in. He's, he's becoming more professional. Yeah, I used to deal with things through anger, Tommy. If I'm honest like, I watched you down at the weekend and you are more professional. You are more, your energy's changed. You've not got the, it's like you could tell with your presence you were there to cause trouble. No matter what way you may have looked at it then, but then your Muslim men are actually speaking to you now. Do you know when I went to Barrow, there's only 170, I'll check the consensus in 2011. There's 172 Muslims in Barrow. Believe now 400. About 400 now. Every family I approached let me in the house and spoke to me. It was very nice. One family actually come and give me information on certain men that they alleged committing these sorts of crimes. There wasn't anyone that wasn't willing to talk. When I went, I went to the Koran burning on Saturday. So the Koran burning has been in Sweden and in Denmark and there was a demonstration outside the Swedish embassy. And I went and it was a Kurdish-Iraqi group who were very different to the, the light has always been given to Angem Charity's group in these demonstrations, which is what I expected to see. And when I turned up, it was lots of smiling Muslim faces who were shaking my hands saying, hello Tommy, how are you and wanting to talk? And then, yeah, I had conversations with plenty of them. But I disagreed with them on lots of things. And what I said is, because they burnt the Swedish flag, I said, do you not realize like for me, like I'm not saying stand here and burn the Koran. I don't think there should be laws that prevent people from doing it. I don't think it's that wise of an idea, but if someone does, does do it, I don't think they should be punished by the state for it. So I said, you're angry because someone's burned the Koran and you're angry with the whole of Sweden. You've just set fire to a Swedish flag. It's got the cross in it. You're gonna upset a lot of people with that. It's the total same as you're upset about this. You're gonna upset a whole country now. And it's people. Because if that was my flag, I'd be pissed off and stopping you doing that. The same way you'd be wanting to stop me burning the Koran. I said, so what you're saying is, this is wrong. So then you've burned the Swedish flag, the Danish flag, you've cheered all this stuff. I said, you've absolutely undone. For me, I went to see the argument and I said, this is your right, lads. When I went there, I said, what's going on? We're angry. I said, okay. And I asked all of them, what do you think should happen to the protestor? Yeah, and I'm challenging that. I would say, he needs to be killed. And they said, nothing should happen. But we're angry about what's going on. I said that and that's your right, lads. Yeah. So there was a very, there was a sound. There was two. I find it strange about Denmark, because I lived in Denmark at the age of 15 till about the age of 17s, 18. I lived in Denmark on and off. I used to come back home with my brothers were there. We had shops there. I mean, Nices, you're going Denmark. Er, I have a cousin. No, but honestly, I always thought that they would do, I never, it's one dude, it's one dude doing a stunt. Yeah, one dude. Yeah, I suppose it is because that's what I'm saying. In Denmark, I would say they're really nice people. You know, there's no derogative swear in Denmark. Even the worst thing that Danish would say to you as a foreigner, they don't find my provider. Right. That means you're dumb foreigner. Right. Right. That's, that's the racist swear. If somebody said that, that's the classic. There's calling somebody a packy, monkey, whatever you know. That's, that's the equivalent of that. They don't find my provider. And, and you, I think, and they'll, you know, you never worried growing up in the Baltic and Manchester then, you know, if there was like a group of 20 lads and you're on your own at night, you'll, you'll take across the road or something. There, you know, the lads would move out the way for you. And it's, and I just found it very strange that Denmark and Sweden is now, and there's a big Muslim community there. It's just one. So what's going on there? It's one dude pushing the boundaries on free speech. That's what he's challenging. He's, he's, he's a far right activist, isn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I don't know him. I don't know him. Do you know him? I don't know him. It's my uncle. Check his one side. Check his one side. It's my uncle. Do you know what, mate? Because I've got... When you're next to him. Yeah. I've got... Well, that's a good side of the Scottish side of the Irish side. Because I've got many Muslim friends, and I love them a bit. I know how fucking crazy they are. They're just as mad as me. But can you see what Tommy's trying to expose as well with the grooming gangs and the connections? Yeah. Can you see that? Because a lot of people, it's good that we used to adhere as well to discuss that. Because a lot of people just, ah, you're racist, you're this, you're... Like, can you see what he does as well as the right thing? No, yeah, he does definitely. That, it takes, you know what, it takes a certain man to do that work. And like I was saying earlier, you know what, I would watch or news, and I find it disgusting. And you don't want to be linked or do it. And then having, him going out and actually having to process all that stuff in your head, it's fucking crazy. I'm frying my last one. You know what I mean? So I need to just get these next two finished. It's dark. It's a dark world there. And then me getting thrown into it, then I've been working with the, I'm sure he won't mind, Joseph Cusack. We got really close with him. He's done the Charlene's Down documentary. He's a ghost writer. He's done 14 odd books. And he's spent a lot of time. And he, when the thick of all this, like when Tommy's come and gone, right at the beginning, right? And he was always with me. And he, in advisement, what to speak to if not to. And he, as always said, he goes, I think if you can relate to Tommy, it's a good thing. Because he will take the trouble off you. I always did. And I've got to be honest with you, when they was going on and that phone, after he phoned me, put the phone down, I had DCI John Robinson. Amazing guy. The guys that did this investigation, Dougie Marsh, Andrew Hill, and Gary Humes, right? I really, really am grateful to them men. They were very thorough. They were very good men. Anytime they were there. And the pick of a phone call, man, the guy, they were there. They were really good. And that DCI John Robinson, they were all scared that, like everybody, like I was, you know, what's Tommy's agenda? What's Tommy going to do? Which is why they nick me. Right. Why they give me conditions. It's like, I think they believed the hype. Yeah. And you know what? And I said to John Robinson that day, on the four driving up from Bolton, I said, look, I think I want to meet him. And he goes, but you think so. You can handle it. You don't feel pressured or don't feel thingy or anything. I said, no, he hasn't pressured me. I don't feel anything. I said, we've had a little crack on the phone. He's been outside of the house. And I want to see him. I want to see him because I know I'm innocent. Why shouldn't I see him? Why shouldn't I see him? I'm innocent. You're not mainstream media is not putting it out there. But there's been years of history going on. If you look at the evening mill, Peter Slur schools have named my businesses. I've got loads of stuff going on. Barrow police didn't protect me. Barrow council didn't protect me. So you know what? If Tommy Robinson is coming to me home and he's saying to me, I'm going to here to look into the case and get to the bottom of the truth. More than welcome me. It's 100% easy. Well, thank you. Somebody that wants to get to the bottom of it. If he wants to spin it, then it's a different story, isn't it? But I recorded him. When he came to me house, we recorded, you recorded. I got cameras and the police asked for it. I didn't give it to anybody. I said, why should I? That's what you mean. That's what you mean to me and Tommy. And that's for my safety. In case, you know, because I'm paranoid at the time as well thinking, is he going to spin it? You could so easy. He could have done it. He said the following and Tommy's got, man. He says people follow. Follow, yeah. And it was, it was, it was, it was the height of things then when it was like 2000. Like you can tell me they're 2000 people turned up. Cars. Cars, you know. And then when he got arrested and then do circling me home, circling cars, beeping and circling me home. I'm getting shot a shout, rapist. I'm stood next to him, walked out and I said to him, you're all right. So I'm going to smuggle him out. Place around. So he's like, I'll get you out of the back. Get in the boot. Get, get, get, get, get. Because the ice cream man's like jumping straight through the hatch. I don't know if we go. See your religion as well. More like, what's, what's the positives from it? Because there's negatives and positives in every religion. There's some dark, satanic shitting. I don't know every religion, but I know people who die for their profit like, but what's the positives in, because I've seen Andrew Tate with the Quran like yourself. Like what was the benefits and the positives with? One word, what did I used to say my love? Sabar, the Arabic word. What does that mean? Sabar means patience. This is my test. This is our test as a family. And we've been put into the worst of it. Allah has put me in it. And I'm going to, I'm going to be patient. Let everything take its course. We know we're innocent. We know we've not done anything. We know we've got Tommy in board. Tommy's been, he's looked at it. Tommy's as a man to man. He said it straight to man. He had done a little bit of research. He had done that. He went and looked further in as well. Even though he was, he was convinced. He still wasn't convinced. I've got to be. And he was telling me through the day, he goes, you know, bro, I didn't even know. But I still carried on. That's what I'm talking about. Thanks for that. He knew it. Obviously, I know you're at the book, Tommy, about the Quran, but do you see good things in it as well that people can actually, because I've got friends who've went to Christ, been in the meetings. It is, it is. And they've changed their life. But can you see that some people actually believe that it is a good thing to actually make someone a better person? I believe some people, if you treat it like a buffet and you take these parts and leave these parts, there's some great parts in it, yeah? If you, if you want to take, it gives people, I've seen it in jail. It gives people a sense of identity, a strong identity. It gives them a sense of belonging, a sense of brotherhood, a sense of community, which at times we could feel jealous off of the community they have. Because our community is broken. It's a mess, yeah? Families are broken. That's not happening in the Muslim community. Old age pensioners getting put in care homes. It's not happening in the Muslim community. There's a lot of things, there's a lot of goods that you can look and think that's good, but there's also for me, a lot of negatives, yeah? But these people who just take these bits can go and live a great life and live a very positive life because they're not following every word as a literal interpretation to follow, yeah? So yeah, there's a lot that, Islam is filling a void in the UK. It's why you're seeing large numbers of conversions. It's why you're seeing people adapt to it. It's why you're seeing people. It's very strong. It's a fucking strong ideology in the sense of it will not budge. It's like your laws will budge before Islam budges. Your everything will budge before the principles. Oh, that's why they say Muhammad, mountain, mountain, Muhammad. He's on top of the mountain, wouldn't he? But it's like, so on this LGBTQ plus, I've said this many times recently, Islam's not going to budge, man. The Muslim community ain't going to budge. You see your little mafia, the LGBTQ plus mafia, and you're pushing of the sexual gender on children. Sam Smith and all this nonsense in his latest video. Hold it by. That's my life. That's my life. I don't like it. I don't like it at all. Do you think there's going to be a room full of Muslim children being read nursery rhymes by a drag queen? Well, there ain't, yeah? But currently, every library across this country is getting booked out as they do this tour of men dressed as women reading nursery rhymes to kids, like, leave the children alone. Out of it. Leave them alone, yeah? Leave them alone. And so there's issues like that. And I see a lot of men are looking for something strong. A lot of men are looking for something that is going to rebel this, yeah? Because this is part of what I'd say is the conspiracy of the new world order. It is the new world order, yeah? It's weak men, feminized men. It's the breakdown of the family, purposely orchestrated in the black community and every community, yeah? They don't want you having a strong dad figure, yeah? They don't want a father figure. They want the state control. State will bring up your children. You know, they're now bringing in the law that you will not be able to take your child out as a sexual education. Part of the sexual education from the age of six or seven, they were introducing self-love. Teaching children about masturbation. That's like, leave the children alone. You're sick fuckers, yeah? And if you look at how, whether it be Pi with the Labour Party, you look at a lot of these top politicians and the lobbyist groups that they've been involved with over the years. It's all about lowering the age of consent. It's all about just breaking down the barriers of men and women, boys and girls. What is a boy? What is a girl? It's all this confusion of the next generation. I just read today. I don't know. I need to check the statistic. But 300,000 children now in America are trans. Like, you are messing, even my children... What, what age? My children, just in my children's school, yeah? In my children's school, there's quite a lot, yeah? In older schools now, like, you are confusing these kids and then you're giving them drugs. You're giving them hormonal drugs, yeah? As children. And then you're taking away the father and the parents' right to prevent this to happen. They want to bring your kids up, basically. And they want you at work every hour of the sun. They want you in bed every hour of the sun. You want everyone on an antipresence. They want you all fat. They want you all in a mess, yeah? Because they don't want a strong population that's there to resist what they want. And as I said, I've said this many times, so many Muslims may be upset. I understand why Muslims get upset when I'm talking about Islam, yeah? And a different tack. Because it's part of our identity, yeah? Strongly, it's part of my identity. Being from Luton. You want to slag Luton off? You upset me, yeah? It's part of their identity. It's being Muslim. Now, and so when I'm... They'd say attacking Islam, but when I'm bringing up negative flaws within Islam, they feel like I'm sort of attacking them. Or I can see where they see it, but I'm not. I said, I'm just talking about this. I'm separating you from it, yeah? That's the passion of us. Yeah. That's the passion we have towards religion and you're 100% there. That's nobody at the time when you talk about Islam, nobody computes it. It's just stand up. It's just stand up. Give it two minutes. Compute what he's saying and then have the conversation. It isn't. And that's the love we have for the religion. Yeah, I get it. That's the... You know what I mean? Like, you... And it's taught within it to defend it. You're... The teachings of... It is partly to defend if you attack them. Mohammed, we're coming for you. What happens if you try and relieve? The religion knows it not. There. I... I say... In certain countries it is. Yes. So it's... Yeah. So there's six Adif's... Sahih... The six Sahih Adif's or Fentac Adif's in the... Al-Sahi Bukhari. Bukhari says kill them. Yeah. Muslim says kill them. Four out of the six make it very specific multiple times. If you leave Islam, you'll be killed. Which is why lots of Islamic countries is punishable by death. Now, my thing is that you might stop the average Muslim in the UK. I bet if you ask Moe, if someone changes their mind and wants to leave Islam, he don't want to kill them. Yeah, I don't know. You know what I'm saying? No, I don't have a right to take anybody's life. No, that's it. So there's lots of... Which then... There's lots of challenges, but I talk about them. Yeah? I talk about them because as we have growing numbers, there's a culture shift and it's like a minority of extremists always rule. I think 10% of Germany was Nazis. 10%. All right? Look what they've done. Yeah? When you have a small, very dedicated group who are active and committed, it's powerful. Yeah? That's power. I'm not saying the vast majority of Muslims don't have to agree with it. Yeah? All you need is a really fucking strong push, push, whether it be the Taliban in Afghanistan or whatever it is, it's very committed. They're more committed than anyone else. So that's why I say it's dangerous, which is when I talk about it, I try and say, like, we've got to look at this. In case some deflective switch and say, do you know what to do with that? So that then people would follow. Yeah? When the numbers become... When the demographic changes that big, then what are we going to do? That's what... So that's what I talk about and it's just exploring. Can we talk about it? Can we say, okay, so Luton is now a minority. Luton is a majority Muslim town. Yeah? I've seen that change. Okay? I've seen the change, which I believe is problematic for freedom. I believe there's lots of issues that come with it. I believe there's lots of issues where it'd be to do with certain crimes, this, this, this. Things that... Things that actually if the government has done their job and the police done their job, we probably won't feel half as worried. Yeah? Haven't tackled grooming, haven't tackled FGM, been scared to deal with all these issues due to cultural sensitivities, rather than just enforcing the law that's there. Yeah? There's so many problems and... And then there's the political correctness problem where people end up self-censoring their views and scared to, scared to air their views and then you have all these NGO organisations. But then I also believe where I'm looking at is that the Islamic community have been, are being used as well by these globalists who want to cause breakdown of society. I've played my part in that. Yeah? When I look at it, Black Lives Matter has been used as an organisation to cause further divide. So whilst they've got the Black Lives Matter divide going on, they've got the racist divide going on, they've got the Muslim community, they've got all these clashes going on where they're funding all of them to for all these clashes. You've got all these different groups. Whilst they're doing that, these fuckers, yeah, are just taking every bit of our freedom, bit by bit by bit, whether it be through terrorism legislation that affects all of us once they bring these laws in. Like I said, these stop oil protesters now, they shut the bridges, they shut the motorways, they do all of this. They're funded by the globalists. So the people who want all this are funding them, yeah? Then Rishi Sinak just passed new laws to deal with them, yeah? But it's not dealing with them, it's going to deal with all of us. They bring in more lockdowns for... Lockdowns. They're bringing in the climate change lockdowns like they're doing now these 20-minute zones. They start bringing all that in. Well, they've passed these new laws. Whereas really, these stop oil protesters were blocking roads over Corson Mayhem that you already had the laws to deal with them. You didn't need new laws, but you stood the police down. You actually see them stand the police down. The police were feeding them fucking sandwiches and giving them bottles of water while they're blocking roads. There's been an ambulance where people dying in the back. You're shutting down bridges Corson Mayhem, yeah? But they were allowed to... And it was facilitated, it was all planned. So then they bring in these new laws and these new laws take part of our freedoms away and when we try and protest what's coming next and I know people... Some people who haven't looked into this probably think he's mad, yeah? They're going to be doing these 20-minute zones that they're trying now. You see, they're trying in Bath and they're trying in Oxford. Trust them to choose two middle-class places, yeah? You start trying to do that crap in the council stage. You can have a problem. But that's what they're bringing in, these zones where you'll need permits to leave the zones. It's all going to be due to the carbon footprint to save the planet. The planet. It's bullshit. What makes a good Muslim man more? What makes a good Muslim man is a person that doesn't judge, right? Keeps... It's about just doing what's right. Being a good person. Like in English they say it's nice to be nice. Man is kos note. Man is mekataman. Right? It's just them fundamentals of it and that makes a good Muslim man. It's a very simple religion. You follow it to the simple basis of it and it makes life easy. If you'd like to think. They're making that easy for you, Buff. Hello. Like I said, that was my test. That was my test there. You passed it. Yeah, passed it. You passed it. And it didn't. It makes you stronger. And you know, it's... Islam is now portrayed like it's such a big... It's demonised. It's, you know, we go out. We bomb. We do this. We do that. Not really, no. They're the radicals. They're the wrong ones. The majority of them are funded by the CIA here in America. ISIS is gone. We've got this. Taliban. Osama bin Laden. Why was he put in there? Why was he put in Afghanistan? By the Americans. I think Trump released the new leader of the Taliban. Trump released just before he left. And then they took over as the Taliban. Yeah. And they would look... They'd leave their weapons and everything and say, oh, sorry, we're going now. And you have this. I get... I mean, recently, I've fought deeply about it. It's like when the invasion of Afghanistan or the invasion of Iraq, the illegal and lawful evasion of those countries, yeah? And then when they're blind, all these bombs are just saying it's against insurgents. If you come into my country, I'm an insurgent, mate, yeah? You bring a military force into this country, I'm an insurgent. So these people who are in Afghanistan and Iraq, they're going to resist you. You're bringing an invading army, yeah? To overthrow, like, in each of these countries, to rob the countries, basically. And all of that. So when... Even the terrorists, like, when I hear, like, their arguments, and I hear their arguments and it's disgusting what they've done and it's barbaric what they've done. They're right about the British government. They're right to be enemies with the British government for what they've done because currently, the government are all of our enemies. Government affairs, I can understand, but not be the enemy of the government, the British population. No, yeah, the government... The government, this is the way we think people are different. They're understanding the government's strategic policies and people. Yeah, yeah. And that's what we've got to all get a balance of. It's find out who's causing the issues and who's not. And what we do is they set the issues. They set everything up and we're just like sheep, aren't we? We're just following it. We're just following it because, oh, it's on news. Oh, it's on that. It should be. It's correct. BCC, sir. Yeah. When's that ghetto up for sentencing? And do you think she'll get present time or do you think it will just be community service? No, no. She's already demanded. So do you think she'll get... Well, she got out. She got out, didn't she? Yes, because when she first got arrested and she was... I think it was for about eight months she was in originally or six months and then they couldn't keep her any longer due to trial work going to take place. Because of COVID? Because, yeah, that's the excuse. Because it was delayed. Oh, what gets me is now if you look at the Bradford agreement in Green Cases, took place in the COVID. And yeah. I've got lots of friends who have been on my mind the whole way through COVID. How much? How much? How much? When in contact with this girl, this agent girl, because of all this I've got, I'm honest to God, my life's kind of changing. I'm getting people reaching out to me and I've been sharing some of these stories with Tommy as well. This woman reached out to me. Her husband was putting Bradford's agreement and she's got paperwork. We need, she goes, I want you to look at all this. I'm thinking, I'm no lawyer, I'm no brief, I just stood me ground and did what I did. But it's... And she's now comes and... But she tells me everything about her husband getting sentenced and the way they put him into the Bradford ring and his, yeah, he was getting done for a little silly bit of weed here and there. That's it he was known for. And they basically picked him up, put him into this, into this ring and he's been sentenced for 19 odd years. And she goes, he isn't that. He goes, I know. And the girl that she... And she's been talking to the girl that was saying that's been the victim. And she's actually said, no, he hasn't done it. And she said to the police, no, he hasn't done it. They said, no, just sign here. Where do you go forward for a future and more before us? You know what? It's not something I ever thought I would do or be but I just, it's now because of the passion. It's like when I did the restaurants, I was the best ones. I did the ice creaming. I did it the best, right? It's true. And I know what's happened and what's... As a family, what we've gone through and what we've been through. And people coming to me, I think I can see me kind of being in a place where I want to make change. I want to make help. I don't want this to happen again. I don't want anybody to be wrongly accused, whether it's a rape, whether it's some drug dealing, whether it's a fraud, whether it's a money laundering, whether or anything. You cannot just throw somebody's life away and just, you know, the way they did. You know, come in and how many times, I got searched, how many times I got stopped. You know, then I went to the holdering. I got arrested again after, I mean, they were thick of all this. And then they come, like on force. There's about 15 officers come from home to arrest me. They got to Barrow Police Station but it's obviously good to show them the warrants and everything and do the legal work and get their uniform with them to escort. They thought, you know, can't... Then this is the Inspector Paul, something he was called. That's the main investigator of the whole grooming scandal. And he looked at it and he goes, we have to stay the night. So how much is this cost? It's costing more tax-based money. Like, it's staying a night in a hotel. Why did we structure how they were going to come and raid, man? And two of them went to, basically, they went half of me, sent his office force home. I'm not even there for my own safety. I don't know the dangers of what I'm going through. And I'm not even there. So they come and raided the house. Again, we're used to it. It's for us that it became normal. Now, believe me, we can't read it. It's all right. Let me, it's normal. It's disgusting. Again, all devices or bank cards. And this is the thing that keeps getting me. All bank cards. Always, every time we're thinking, disclaimers into your banks. Disclaimers into my banks. That's into it, right? They want to look at other crimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And this is now knowing, working with other people. And you know, that was sent to you out. You know, you remember that comment. Every time they made a comment, his paperwork is too tidy. His paperwork is too tidy. You know, oh, it makes our job easier. And everything I've got, I'm quite OCD when it comes to my paperwork. I like to keep. One thing my father taught me in England, this country, you need paperwork. That's all you need in this country. Back home, you're tidy now. Back home, you're taking his name. So, one of the things, as a kid, he told us, right? In this country, those days, you needed a good bank manager. You needed a driving license and a good accountant. And you're set for life, if you have them. And so that was part of it. You know, and it's just, all the work they did, and it was just, it was to me, then, there's just some of dark here. There's some of more, some of more, some of more. And I'll never get to the bottom of it. It's like you're turning into a conspiracy nut as well, then you're thinking, I ain't got my overthinking thing. But you know, you're going through this, you're going through this major, major pressure. Especially given it so much energy. Yeah. You don't want to keep giving it energy. Do you think you'll get to the bottom of it, Tommy? Have you kind of flipped a chapter on it? I'm not going to let him. You get to flick a chapter, that's it. Something has to have gone on in our life. I think something's gone on in Barrow. Do you feel sorry for that? I think there's something. I've been looking for a few things recently. Yeah. Barrow seems like, you saw the Liverpool scandal, yeah? But in the Labour Party, the Mayor and all that were at it. Yeah, yeah, backhanders. It's all kept in house. It looks like something like that's been going on in Barrow for a long time. No outsiders are wanted in there. They've got it on lock within the council. Council, yeah. For all sorts of stuff. Is that why they wanted you, you think? Probably why they wanted me out. Probably why they didn't want a new man coming in and finding themselves around. Yeah. Well, do you go forward for the future, Tommy? Because now I know you're kind of open-minded. People are starting to see you in a different light. Like, where do you go? I've just got more documentaries to make. More stories to come. Yeah, well, I said to Nicola last night. Go on. I said, Nicola, what do I see? I said, 25 years time. 20 to 25 years time. I can see him being prime minister. I won't be here for you. A Labour. A Labour. Which I ain't inverted. I don't mean it. I'll be your chancellor then. We're four wives. Let's take for it. Yeah, and I love more. Because that's what I see in your comments. He's going to convert soon. He's going to convert soon. He's out of his. Because at the minute, people... It's nothing I haven't said. It's nothing I haven't said, yeah. I do see negatives. I do see positives, yeah. But I'll see a lot of problems. And I like to see a lot of problems that no one's... I'm in a position where most people aren't willing to talk about these problems. Most people too scared to talk about them problems. Most people don't want to lose their jobs or their careers. Someone's got to talk about them. Someone's got to highlight them. Someone's got to explore them. Someone's got to do that. And I'm in that position and people... And people have... I think a lot of people have a faith in what I'm saying. So I just want to continue to shed a shine of light on corruption wherever it is. Fair play. For anybody that's watching, that's maybe went against you, spoke out against you, deleted you, what would you say to them who never believed in you? Never judge a book by its cover, is it? No. No, maybe that won't fit. It's just, let's not be so judgmental, right? And people that know you know. You just don't... And it's the gravest of accusations this was. And for people to just make assumptions and jump on it or give it support or pump it, it's wrong. It's wrong. We know it shouldn't be like that. Either go and seek knowledge of it, get information about it, and then come and speak. It's like, as I say, when it all went up, I started doing lives. When it blew up and I thought, you know what, and everyone's thinking, you're going crazy, what are you doing? You're thinking more traction. I'm like, no. Fuck him, man. Fuck him. I'm not going to sit down. I'm not going to let them beat me like this. This is wrong. I'm being stitched up more than one way. I'm not going to let it happen. And so I just... Didn't really think of that in my lives and everything. I said, anybody's more than welcome. Anybody wants to come and sit down and have a discussion like a man. Come. Or if you want one on one, even I said that, I said, tell me, I'll tell you where I am. I'll fucking come. I'm not scared. But don't be doing that. And it went down to the town. Even I did one of my very first videos. I did this guy called Andy Bickle. And he was friends of friends, close circles, and they were like, he's the type of person next to you. And he's like, yeah, I know he's a nuns. I thought, so I did a video of walking. We were walking to go and muck out the horses. And I'm walking down the promenade. And I went, there are everybody. Andy Bickle's done this. This is saying, everybody do me a favor. If they see him, give him a hug. And when you give him a hug, I'll donate a pound to a charity. And that's how I started taking your mom. And then basically, some people, they were like, oh, yeah, it's cocky. Look how cocky he is. And yeah, I'm an over day. I'm a little man in the Embaro, doing his own minding his day-to-day life and just going on with the mundane tasks of life, just getting on with it. And the crap we got, it was just unbelievable. So I thought, I'm not having it. I'm not having it. Not my watch. What did you MP say to you last? Oh, God. About me? Yeah, we're talking about that now. So I went down to the MP and he put a conversation about Tommy Robinson. And I even said to him, I said, I'm a closet Tory. And he was like, what's your relationship with Tommy? I said, I think, I said, Tommy's going to expose a lot more things. I was like, and basically, they weren't happy, was it? They weren't happy with it. And I said, you know, I'm going to invite Tommy to my house. The assignment fell. They just put his hand. I said, I'm going to invite him to my house. And nobody could talk. And he was like, why do you go Facebook? So now this is the app. I mean, I've been exonerated and everything's out there is clear. The advice I was given is go Facebook, stay away from Tommy. Now he's got agendas. And just carry on. So what do you mean? So go off Facebook. I have to be told by you who I can go to. Shut up and be quiet, basically. Yeah, shut up and be quiet. And why? I just thought, you know, I'm wasting my time here. Absolutely wasting my time. Quite a stand-up and fight. Tommy, what's all your social media links now? I know you're back on Twitter. Twitter, Tommy Robinson. Tommy Robinson, NS on Twitter. And then official Tommy Robinson, Tommy Robinson official on Rambo. They're the only ones I'm allowed on. So far. So far, mate. So far. What are you going to do? For anybody that's watching, it's maybe going through something like you. People are pointing their fingers and you don't see a way out that everybody's turned against them. What advice would you have for them? Stay strong. And if you know you're innocent then you've got nothing to worry about. If you know you're innocent you've got nothing to worry about. And then just contact Tommy. Would you like to finish up on anything, Tommy? No, mate. No, it's good. I'll just, as I said, just for his family, it was good to know that they're in a different place. Must have been for real. Mo, yourself, do you like to finish up on anything, brother? Well, moving forward, what we're doing is, Nick and our friends have set up the whole trust. Because the way Maggie Oliver helps, and there's not much people out there, really, going through this with the support for the wrongly accused and the abuse victims. And if you put them two together, there's mental health, the biggest of it. Nobody's focusing on all three. And we're quite fortunate that we've got a lot of doctors within the culture, within the family, friends and everything. We've had long chats with them. We've got legal teams that are now jumping on board. Friends that are Barista Supreme, Woodford Green is in, and he's a Supreme Court Barista, Bahid al-Rahman, and Mia, and he's jumping on with us. We've got doctors side. We've got creatives as a bubble, creative support. Jason, they're all coming together. So we're all building a network and an organisation. And these people that are reaching out to us, and like you're just saying, if there isn't a genuine victim there are the wrongly accused of anything. And you don't know what to do, advice, anything. Right, once that we are officially going to be launching in about 14 days, I think, and it's going to be the HALP Trust. And please get behind that, support us and follow us and see what we do for the people. Last thing, fair play for Matt Bowen Dowling, standing up for what he's believed in. Fair play for standing up for this man, Tommy. You could have walked away at any time. But coming on today, guys, healthy discussion management. I wish you all the best for the future and hopefully everything works out. Take care, lads. Cheers, Matt.