 We're here at CBS 2016 in Nairobi, Kenya and I'm very pleased to be joined today by Dr Win Mlambo, who is Deputy Minister for the Ministry of ICT, Postal and Courier Services for Zimbabwe. Deputy Minister, thank you very much for being with us today. Thank you very much, Max. Now this conference is focusing on capacity building, very much in a connected world. I wanted to find out from you, what are the challenges of capacity building in this day and age? As I was saying, Max, I'm passionately concerned about the disjointed things which I seem to observe in an important aspect of capacity building. But my comments are going to be focused more on developing countries rather than developed countries. I seem to see that while the world is making, especially ITU, making effort in trying to build capacities, but on the other hand, the way it is being done doesn't reach out to the people who are responsible or who must be affected or who must imbibe this knowledge and the skills. Let me talk specifically and passionately about those who are responsible, SMEs, that is more to me, enterprises, who in Zimbabwe, for example, form about 64 percent or contribute 64 percent to the GDP and to the fiscal. But these people are so informal that they are not being catered for when we talk about capacity building. We focus on the private sector, which is very organized. They mount programs on building capacities in a very, very systematic way. The public sector is something, though not as organized as the private sector, but they also mount capacity building programs. But then excluded are what we seem to think are key in building the economy. These are SMEs. So the question is, how then do we reach out to these people who are so informal in the sector? I seem to see a disconnect between the two. Just before I came here, we were talking about universities without walls. And I said, perhaps this can provide a solution to this important sector, which is excluded. I also see that the policies themselves don't quite reach out to what we think must happen. For example, if we are, say, we have to develop ICT skills, that assumes a certain level of literacy, which in developing countries is not there. So I'm saying when it comes to policy level, there has to be a policy that everybody must attain a certain minimum level, like in Zimbabwe, or level perhaps, or A level. Only then can we start teaching such people about web surfing, internet use, social networks, and so forth. Before they reach that level, there's no way they can understand such concepts. E-development and the I-development and the distinction between these are concepts which are too deep, which requires a minimum level of education as a policy. And beyond that, in terms of policy, perhaps funding, because after we have done everything, we must think of funding. How do we cater for capacity building? Where do we get the money? Because we must come in with specific policies to set aside some funds, Max. What about rural areas? How can we ensure that they reach and achieve the sustainable development goals? Is it a matter of connectivity? Is it a matter of investment, infrastructure? What is it in your opinion that we can do there? Max, this is another very, very difficult area, especially in the developing countries. In rural areas, again, people live in not in too organized fashions like urban areas. So it's difficult to institute these programs, which in the private sector, as I said earlier on, are very easy to do. Now, take for example, people in one kilometer square, they're about as few people as just two families. How then do you go there and organize a training program? We talk passionately about the attaining sustainable development goals, the 17 of them and 169 targets. But then, how do you do so when people can't have access to infrastructure, when people cannot use the internet? If we say internet of things and of lately internet of everything, that assumes that then internet must become a right or connectivity must become a right. In other words, people who don't have access to internet, it becomes a human rights issue. The same with access to infrastructure. If you're talking about attaining those sustainable development goals and by the targets we are talking about, then it must mean that the infrastructure must be there. People must be taught to use the internet. People must be taught to use social networks, because internet has become everything, must. So in your opinion, is there a disconnect between policy formulation and implementation? Yes, indeed. There is a big one. Firstly, let me go back to what I said. In quite a number of developing countries, it's not yet mandatory that everybody must have a minimum level of education. It's not mandatory. So if we start talking about attaining sustainable goals before that becomes a policy, then there's a disconnect. It's disjoint and we will not be able to attain those 17 goals, no? It becomes a mirage, a moving target as far as developing countries are concerned. In developed world, yes, it's very easy to realize that because of mature democracies and the level of development in those countries. But in developing countries, it's still a pipe dream. I was disturbed when I looked at the distinction between e-development and i-development, otherwise electronic development and information development, that these two are distinct concepts. But who then in the rural areas understand that? Are governments in developing countries really know the distinction? Shouldn't we focus on decision makers to first understand themselves? What do you hope will be the outcome from this particular symposium? It's an eye-opener to quite a number of people. It must, it provides an opportunity for people to start thinking about the missing links in terms of attaining sustainable goals and building capacities in different countries. Dr. William Lambert, thank you very much for keeping me this today. Thank you very much, Max. I hope it's okay.