 Record on the computer. Welcome everyone to our Thursday, November 16th meeting of the supply chain and trade financing. I'm going to share the agenda into the chat right there. I'm going to really exciting, like a nice. Meaning today where some planning and then we're going to hear from a very special guest Jim Lorenzo Maggio speaking about his European Commission report so Jim Lorenzo welcome officially. Yeah. We have Jeff here we have David here and of course Tom, my name is Alicia Noel and on the agenda today. Got some upcoming events we just want to mention in two weeks. Our meeting, we will be hosting Mario Riegel of PPI coming over from Germany on leveraging ISO 20022. And that meeting is at a special time so that's going to be at 4pm Central European time, 10am Eastern, 7pm Pacific. Sorry, yes, 7am Pacific, thank you. 7am Pacific. We want to make sure that everyone is aware that it's not at our usual 12 noon Eastern 6pm CET time slot. And then in December, on December 4, there's going to be a hyperledger member summit in Tokyo. So if any of you who are in Asia, that's, that would be a good event to attend. As for our, do we have any, before we move on, do we have any announcements to make related to the CIG or hyperledger? If you already have an agenda, the ebook announcement, would you like to talk about that? Our meeting two weeks ago, we officially launched our supply chain and trade finance ebook. The official title is hyperledger in action supply chain and trade finance. So those of you who are interested can go to the agenda from that meeting. And you'll see us discussing each of the profiles in it. It's a great resource because not only does it have information about how supply chain and trade finance are leveraging blockchain, but we have one page profiles on seven different platforms, seven different solutions that are live being used daily by international companies to manage their supply chains and to manage trade finance. So that's really useful. We also have a section where we highlight additional projects that didn't meet the requirements to get a full page full page profile, but we did think we're worth highlighting. And also on the ebook we just learned recently that hyperledger is going to be translating that ebook into both Japanese and Chinese so that's going to help us reach an even wider audience. Very excited about that. And hyperledger is starting to promote that. So hyperledger is going to be much more publicity. Yes, hyperledger channels here over the next two, three weeks. So we'll be in the hyperledger newsletter that you get regularly. There'll be some announcements pushed out so look for that also so multiple places and one one last I guess one thing I'll add to that Alicia is that the we talked about this last time. We're viewing this ebook out, but we're viewing this ebook as a updateable document that will be able to either bring in additional case studies, as we learn about them or the ones that as they progress along and have additional information additional successes would bring bring them along because there's, there's been a lot of waving hands about how great blockchain solutions are out there. And so we spent a lot of time making sure that we had boxing solutions in this ebook that are real real real ones that are actually providing value business value for organizations there. I mean, one of the as you were viewing so many different profiles. A lot of people were suggesting ones where we weren't able to find publicly available information on what the benefits were on savings other efficiencies. And that was one thing we really wanted we we stress so that was important to us for companies that got them a page profile. What's the governance around the ebook right now so we download and give it to somebody can we just reference somebody at BP. That's what I was up to and I said, I like to see that so we get it's just. It's publicly available. It's out there. Okay, okay. Yeah, I mean, we've put it up on LinkedIn as well I shared at the discord trust your supplier has also shared it over their LinkedIn. Okay. Yeah, and I asked, I asked Andrea to to boost the trust your supplier. Post about it as well. Okay. Yeah. That's the White House. Excellent. I don't know why. White House. That's right. I actually did. I sent an email. When the White House website came up back. This is a story of the 90s and when was president. I thought what the hell I'll send a note out there so I had just been in Washington DC and made a comment about how they blocked the roads off around the White House for the security. I still have it. He wrote me a letter back. I hit some nerve. Oh my goodness. Now he may not have written it, but he signed it and it's an actual signature and there's not initials behind it, which means they signed it for him. I still haven't came to speak to me an envelope. It was so new, I think they got something here. Oh, that's probably I hit a nerve for some reason. I got a comment that I'm on how well the economy is doing back then. And then I did a comment about this blocking off around the backside of the White House is kind of confusing. We need all this about reimbursing the District of Columbia and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. And so my kid used to take it to school to show people a letter from board of court. Oh, that's so funny. typed. I would expect it was. Have you framed it? No, no, I got an envelope. I'd say a light greenish envelope. It came in White House stamped on the front. And then something to know about that kind of stuff said he obviously somebody obviously saw it in his staff, thought it was important to address. But I wrote it up, gave it to him. He looked it over. And then he changed it and signed it. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds about right. If you see a signature and then a little slash initials that would be somebody signed it as made for him. No initials. So, no, that was. You know, you knew what was, you knew that this was an important issue. Well done, Jeff. Well, the funniest thing I saw when some work with the government. The royal company was, I sent an electronic. Especially email. It was sent back through written postage. It's that reclined an email. That's what I thought was so funny. Yeah. Anyways, also. Yes. And I'd be curious to see if you, what your responses. So those are your interesting. Yeah, it's up on our LinkedIn. It's up on the wiki from last week and you're going to be getting an email from hyper ledger for those of you who subscribe there. So next. Is it underneath under it? No, if there's a LinkedIn specifically for the hyper ledger supply chain and trade financing. And he usually tags all of us when he posts links. I'm pretty sure he did for that. And then next step. Just let you know, I'm going to post it underneath. There's a supply chain. LinkedIn group underneath this company that has a lot of action underneath it. Great. Great. Yeah, I posted it to one or two supply chain groups on LinkedIn as well. And I posted the discord. I posted it to a couple of we chat groups. Jen Lawrence. Jen Lawrence. I posted the link to the chat. Thank you. And. Okay. Yeah. It's easy for everybody. And then next up, we're in mid November of 2023. So it's time for us to really start talking about what we want to do next year. What's our 2024 planning. This could be speakers. This could be projects. How do people want to get involved? So we have one or two speakers who had to postpone the presentations from this year that are on our list to getting back in touch with in December and January to see when they can speak next year. But we'd love to hear from everybody. Who you'd like to see coming into present. And also we finished the e-book. So yes, we will be taking submissions of additional platforms to add in, but that's probably not, probably not going to do another, do a major edit for another nine months to a year. So what do we want to focus on for the beginning of 2024. David, you've been coming for a few months now. I'm glad to see you coming back. Are there any projects that you think would add value to the community and that you might be interested in being part of? I'm trying to think about it, but some interesting projects have been, I've been seeing how we can build and just trying to extend. I think we had a discussion with the guys from, the guys who are talking about standardizing blockchain and creating both standards and making them available. Standards that we can build on for, for trying to, I would say, standardize supply chain technologies that are being built on the blockchain. It was a very interesting call. We could extend something like that. Okay. Project, yeah. So how about introducing it into trade and revenue for systems that are having, let me say, communities and, for instance, we have the employers and all those, all the companies come together and they achieve, they're allowed by a lot of trade or something. So how about we use, we build something that can compass something like that. I think to be a very, very nice adoption to kind of ease trade. And also we can try to economic growth as well. But it is something that should be on top of trade on top of supply chain and something I've been thinking about. Systems focused on revenue and economic growth. Yeah. Are there any systems you've seen already that you think hit sweet spots around that? Currently, I've not seen any. That's why I've not seen any, maybe they are there and people are just to building them or something, but that's kind of what, what this brings, the value that this brings. So a number of players will come in. These are the countries and they are, they are rights officials and then they will be able to track and monitor how the trade, how the trade, how bilateral trade and maybe international trade is going on. It allows exchange of documents and also taxes can be, can be levied in time and the right amount according to the standards are great. It's kind of, I'm not, I'm not a product manager, but that's how we get into. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we did have UAE trade connect come and speak a few months ago. One of the platforms that we included in the e-book that we just had a blurb about was B Connect out of Brazil. That's working with the Mercersor countries for cross-border trade and that's one of the companies we have on our radar to ask them to come in next year and present on the work they're doing. That's amazing. Yeah. The standards piece, because you mentioned standards at the beginning, the presentation in two weeks with David, sorry, with Mario Reichel, he'll be talking about leveraging ISO 20022 and that's the standard for, that's a standard around cross-border payments. So the full title of this presentation is leveraging ISO 20022 to optimize supply chain and trade finance management platforms, harmonized ISO 20022 for cross-border payments, a data model also for blockchain solutions and logistics. So that, I think that's something you're going to be, that will be interesting for you. Yeah. David, this is Tom, a quick question for you. Are you thinking in terms of monitoring international trade, are you thinking about monitoring at a company level or are you thinking monitoring at a governmental level or are you thinking both? So this can be rolled out. I think adopting governments can take a while, but that will be the right point to plug into this because when you have the government signing up on to this, then the companies will also naturally jump on. So, based on looking at it from a government and more, I don't say political sense, but more administrative sense and extending it downward. Yeah. So you're saying basically, hey, government jumps on it then companies will kind of come along. It's almost a little regulatory thing. Estonia has adopted blockchain for a lot of things, digital identity, a lot of business issues. They've made themselves a huge hub. I'm not sure if they're using something blockchain backed to manage their exports and imports though. That's a good question. I haven't heard anything really on Estonia recently and what they're up to. Yeah. Maybe worth investigating. We could even ask how much they're using hyper ledger as opposed to something else. I did see something this morning about JPM coin and how it's actually now being used effectively. It's actually based on private Ethereum. So basically it would be the linkage there, but they actually got people doing settlements using that blockchain now. So, yeah. So it's similar to the, I think UAE trade connect and probably the mercury sir, the B connect. Right. I can't remember. So that was JP Morgan point when we got out of that and it's sold to somebody who, you know, Tom, who runs it. I was looking at it. Coin still exists. So that's, that's a JP Morgan. They had. They had their own version of Ethereum called quorum that they sold. They saw the consensus because they didn't want to be. Building the building blocks and then the enterprise Ethereum alliance. Right. Kind of took over the overall, Hey, here's, here's, here's how we're going to do private theory, which is similar to, you know, what you can do with fabric, right. Hyper ledger products. So they saw what we've seen with hyper ledger, the ability within an enterprise to have a system. That can make it much more powerful and much more adoptable. Right. Yeah, I could figure out what they were doing with it because it's almost like they didn't understand what they were doing. It's kind of like a Facebook was calling me. I don't think they understood the points of four. Yeah. It comes down to it. They're, they're used to run block chains. They're the gas behind it. Fundamentally, that's what they are. We're going to see a block chain and the rewards. And if they have a private blockchain on fabric, they're going to be able to do that. So, yeah, Yeah. Well, the article. Yeah. Maybe David and Alicia, I'll let you go a little bit. I'll try to find the article here and all this place into the chat. That's interesting. Yeah. That'd be great. Thank you. It came in the new, it came in the fortune newsletter this morning. Here. It's easy to be affordable to everybody. So I'll put it in the chat. Okay. Thank you. I mean, we can also forward things over the list of emails so that people who aren't here in real time, but do watch it with a video, do watch it on YouTube. Get access to it as well. Yeah. Yeah. So. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I think moving on. Just want to say if anyone has ideas on potential speakers, but projects. And wants to get more involved, please come to a meeting person and or send us an email. And we can, we can talk about different ways for people to get involved. And. Yes, I. Since our budgets are limited. When you think about it. Budget. So I've been trying to think on what things like a really different people. I don't know. I don't know. I'm going to say for. I don't know something like that. I was going to come up with six. What's the, what's the. What's the flavor of projects that we're looking for is it. Presentations is it. The book was really great. What if it was anything deeper that. You know, I was always wondering how supply chain. Supply chain software. The specific fabric fits into systems and companies like. Their ancient SDP systems. Or trading desks where you've got. Unability, which is big. Which you really think that our voting. But none of my on that. But we're trading desks that sit there and page. We've got lots of other stuff. In the past. But we're taking the information. Hopefully that's been information in the homes in places. It's blown out during their transportation. I'm not. I worked with trade for five years. On the phone. Trading logistics. I'm not expert on it, but I do know that they send it for opportunities. Traders and look for opportunities. When it says play. I'm going to start with one section. I think traders make a lot of things smooth in our world. The tanker gets stuck on the ocean, the refineries waiting for them, they have an against these shortage in the Chicago and New York area. They swap fuels and everything stuff in right away to take care of that for a profit. They hedge stuff and so that's all supply chain stuff. But our traders out there using blockchain, say with the IoT data, new internal data, mutable data, which is really key because when you're a trader, all your stuff is tracked. Things you say on the phone, things that you type on a monitor, a screen. That stuff is T. When you say trader, it sounds like you're specifically meaning investment trading. I'm a week trader or commodities trader and I'm sitting there and how do you make money, Jeff? Well, I look out for opportunities about climate and for what's going on in the supply chain role, what's the harvest looking like? There are the silos in the farm area plugged up for some reason because they can't. This is wrong with the railroads and this kind of stuff happens. So my silos, my farm co-op are filled. And so that affects prices and they sit in the middle of this thing and they figure out ways to smooth that out. And I'll give you this and I'll take care of this for you. I'll take care of this for you in the hedges of prices and then make lots of money out of it. To give you an example, when I was at BP in COVID, they were paying people to take crude oil. Remember that? Pardon? They were paying people to take crude oil. And so you're buying it. They were paying people because the tanks were being filled, probably shut everything down. And the supply was just pouring in. And so BP had an empty tanker that had loaded out in the Gulf, Mexico. And so they were paid $100 million to take crude off people's hands. And they turned around the helding port and when they sold it off, they made another couple hundred million dollars. The traders did that. It was all about supply chain. They knew where things were at the right time. Right. I mean, is there any interest in digging into stuff like that to see how supply chain software can be or is being used in trade desks? More detailed. Is there any interesting right now? But it's more than the, it's a little bit deeper than the ego. Right. It's a lot deeper. Yeah, business-wise and technically. Right. It says I have a lot of time. So much time on my hands. I'm trying to think about stuff to do in 24. Really dig my teeth into. Yeah. That's interesting from a finance perspective. I'm. I think there are projects that are using hyper ledger for that. I think it's worthwhile to have them come speak and to document them. Put them in. We have people and if that's not, you know, it's, it's, if that's not out there today, who takes that information and goes to those, goes to trading companies. And you can do that. I think that's the key. Because somebody at some point brought that stuff to those companies and say, here's what you can do with hyper, the fabric and supply chain. We adopted it. Right. It does that. It's who investigates to see what use cases. Different. Things out there are equitable. Somebody does that. Yeah, some of the consulting firms do. I bet some of the insurance firms do. I'm sure the insurance firms right now are doing a lot with AI. I know they've been doing a lot in prior years with remote sense and data with data coming from satellites, especially around weather, weather events, drought. Tracking ships. Both for. Tracking how commodities are moving, but even. Remote sensing data has been leveraged. For tracking human trafficking. It's already interesting. There's something again, these are things that I tend a lot of these things. That's a lot of stuff is used case, but it's also. Here's what our software can do. So. Can. I wonder if supply chain using fabric and AI be about the band just as hard to think this would work because enough of the solution is out there, but it's all slides aren't interested in spending time digging down into stuff that our group presents as. I'm not saying experts, but information around those topics. Words. This could be. Let's go now with supply chain and AI anything. I think that's one of the most important questions actually I've seen. We have. Documents of our presentations and we can do the show what can be done. Not what's being done, but what can be done. I know corporations are really struggling with AI because they're forced to invest in it. I want to do it. I think, I think there's still a lot of issues around some of the AI platforms, accuracy of data. Accuracy, there's, and there's a monster sitting out there. There's a monster on AI that will be plots about rights that have to be addressed. AI that the amount of computing power that is required to run AI is immense. I mean, it's immense. And the greenhouse gas emissions and so forth. The vectorized data. That's really AI. Data to do that work. I heard stuff like everyone uses enough power to. The same amount of power that 100,000 homes is a whole year. There's not enough energy. Massive adoption. Yes. That brings up something interesting. I remember a couple of years ago, some governments were banning token mining because of the energy. I wonder at what point we're going to see governments banning, hosting AI servers. Yeah. Also because of the power use. Yeah, I think. The way, the way some countries are doing it now is the transitioning into. Large solar, solar farm. So it's in Kenya. They, they open the large, they, they open the large mining farm and it's, it's basically powered by solar, which is natural energy. I've also seen a lot of risk in the time as well. In that. Like, like Jeff say, it's really immense. The computing power you need. So how, how, how can, how is, how reliable is it? Is there going to be the, the dominance factor that you see? Because of those costs? I see a lot of, a lot of cloud providers right now. The ones providing computing power for that. But isn't the cost being driven there as well? Well, Google was on TV saying they're a real pickle because they've got an AI. They've got a good AI. And for the same time, they have a net zero commitment of 2050. And as they push AI, they're going in the wrong directions. Yeah. It's, it's, because I know, you know, in the US, I think the windmill consortium have said if they don't get $4.8 billion government subsidies then our windmill infrastructure in the United States is going to shut off. How much of our power comes from windmills in the US? It's tiny, but again, it's, it loses lots of money. And they're finding out that some of the, not that they've been running a lot of the parts are reliable. There's a lot more names than they thought. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's off. You guys off topic, but um, I think I'm always interested in researching stuff that we can see what we can do. I did for the, for the climate accounting sake, I did it out of the blue. Climate accounting sake doesn't have a solution. They sit and say adopters they have. How fast can be used to. The carbon economy, the different phases of carbon economy. And so I went on to do a comparative study of offers that are out there. And so I did it out of the blue. So I did that kind of stuff, but the climate accounting stick does a lot of stuff where. Here's our software fabric and all the different projects around it. Here's how we can use this for climate economy. We want to do some of that stuff in supply chain. I think this is something we're going to have to continue the discussion next meeting. Being mindful of time. It's 35 after the hour 36 after the hour and we had asked Jean Lorenzo is here to present right. So let's continue the discussion probably not next meeting, but in January. Make sense. I think we're going to be meeting some of the ideas around this. And might be worth sending some of that out over the listserv email so that people who aren't at the meeting and don't watch it know that the discussion is being had. And other people can chime in. Thank you. That said, Jean Lorenzo. Thank you so much for joining us today. For those of you who haven't yet looked at the profile Jean Lorenzo Medio is a PhD fellow at the European training network for industrial digit digital transformation across innovation ecosystems. I think it's kind of Einstein. And he's great. Thank you. We're going to be discussing report you're preparing for the European Commission so Jean Lorenzo I'm going to hand this over to you. Thank you for my pleasure being here and thanks for giving me the time to present I'm going to pull up the PowerPoint so hopefully you can see the screen full screen, right. Yes, we can see it. Perfect. So. So, yeah, just gonna start by briefly presenting the project on myself and then I'm going to quickly move to the report which is the main content and the while so I'm presented it today here. So I'm, I'm PhD fellow this. Well, first that's all seniority so I'm based in Denmark, but at the same time I have this affiliation with UC Berkeley which is why also I get to know people from hyper ledger. So I met Daniela and then Tomash just online but still, we had to speak to speak a couple of times. And I'm part of this European project called Einstein. So perfect pronunciation. It wasn't easy. It's very long. And I'm based in Denmark, as I was telling you before but there are 15 PhD students across the world studying different kind of perspectives on industrial transformation. And I'm mainly focusing on blockchain. Why because I actually started collaborating with the hyper ledger foundation which is one of the partners of this project. So this is like the background in terms of of the project and myself and feel free to like stop me or if you have any questions just to to let me know when I will stop talking. Yeah, just real fast on the previous chart. I didn't see Moby on there. Is there, have you talked with Moby or are you going to talk about that in a little bit later. Yeah, actually, I haven't in, let's say in the pipeline to some extent. So I was thinking to speak with them. But that's great. And I also actually I didn't mention it before but first I watched the recording of last session. And I think this kind of reports could be a nice extension and deep dive in terms of focusing on the batteries and supply chain implementation for blockchain. Good. Yeah, because we had Moby on early this year talking the early list, maybe last year about digital battery passports and their standards there. So no said, I'll let you continue. That's great. No, thanks for mentioning actually I saw that they spoke a couple of times. So one should be this year and previous one last year. But I never actually had the chance to get in contact with them. So, again, we'll get back to it in a few slides anyway. Yeah, okay. So current research, I started focusing on blockchain voting in the US election. So there is especially one startup that has been using hyper ledger and building a platform on the ledger for us elections they've been quite successful. And then they started also working outside the US, the same time up with with Einstein so with the project. We run this blockchain webinar, a few months ago, and there was involving Daniela, Marin Yovanovich, who was professor at Copenhagen Business School and also died from from circular. So, since I wanted to focus more on the, let's say the success cases, and what could be a good implementation case a good story for reports with Daniela in April back in April we started to think about well perhaps we could do something on supply chain. And why because there is this deadline for for the project. So for the Einstein project to develop a report by January 2024. And this should be a, this should, let's say, present a framework on how to manage emerging technologies to make it easier. And so, there was this, this webinar as well, and that we run in June. And then again, when I spoke with with Daniela and Tomasz, well, they told me the, the, the supply chain trade finance interest group has been finalizing has been working and finalizing an ebook. So perhaps there is there is room for some synergies here. And that's why I also reach out to you guys. So, very briefly, the focus would be on implementations in for digital passports, or anyway for blockchain implementations to track and trace EV batteries and the materials that are used. Why, because of course there are some challenges, and also some new regulations that are coming up, and especially you set officially set one in in June, if I'm correct, if I recall correctly this year. So, again, if you have any questions so far, let me know. Otherwise, I will just go on. And I was thinking to, to structure the reports around free cases. So I already mentioned circular already seen that you also included it in the additional projects for in the ebook. And same goes for mobile, if I recall correctly. I seen that you excluded ever ledger. As far as I know, and that's also what Daniela told me. Ever ledger is still actually going on. So there was a subsidiary that had financial issues. Shia Lian, who's the CEO of ever ledger also published a blog post on hyper ledger website in September. So, it should still be a good at good case anyway to learn from again. Why, because I think what the ebook tells us is what has been working. So, what has been the benefits that this kind of cases shows. The same time, I think that what the report could complement is a perspective on what are the challenges anyway to scale it for example, but anyway, in the implementation in and high volumes of these kind of solutions. So this is like the take that I would like to give to the reports. And maybe she learns as you're speaking. We included circular as you notice mobius in there also. One of the things that we've, we struggled with is getting numeric benefit from circular solutions. So dollars and cents euros and cents right in some way shape or form. I mean, yeah, there's 10,000 users or, you know, we have 5,000 skews that we're tracking or something like that. And those are, those are good. But what's been challenging though is, hey, by using circular aka also, you know, blockchain underneath the covers, we've been able to save X number of dollars or we've been able to increase revenue because now we do it so easily. The customer believes in it and says, okay, now I understand how you as an organization are actually doing that work. Right. And so I trust it more and so now I'm going to buy more from you as opposed to somebody else. So we have not gotten that kind of information from circular. Jeff, you're probably smiling because you did a lot of work trying to figure that out and couldn't figure it out. Well, there's a couple of problems with the main one was when you're doing ESG and you come back and say, you know, sourcing as possible sourcing and then they come back and say now we're doing this possible sourcing right using child slave labor and all we can track to make sure they're not doing that. And you come back, well, what's the benefit you must have been using say there before, right? I'm going to admit that, you know, we couldn't track it before and that was going on. Now we can track it, make sure that it's not going on. But how do you go back and say, we do slightly like 50%. And so the thing that you pressed on Tom, though, is there's no, in my mind, what I've seen, there's no doubt that there are some of these folks that were using this technology to say we can really track this and so that you know, there's supplying, but also that materials we have, we have confirmation that we're not using environmentally sound and so it was in that nature and so we're getting a customer from somebody else that can't. Yeah, it's hard to get that maybe it's too early. Yeah, it may. But Jim Lawrence, I just wanted to bring up that point that I mean, we want these things to be real solid. There's plenty of hand waving and using blockchain, plenty of hand waving. And the more solid we can make it and that was one of our very key aspects of how we chose who was going to be in here who wasn't going to be in here. So we'll leave it at that and let you continue here. I just do want to add one comment on Everled jury. Yes. Thank you for bringing up the financial issue that there was the bankruptcy. We didn't see anything from third party talking about new clients or anything like that. So it was hard to see if the company's continuing operation is that true. Are they truly an ongoing company or is this just something that they're that they're saying in order to continue waving their hands saying we're here. And we didn't want to include anything that we weren't confident about. And when you do invite them to come and speak in January, February. Yeah, I mean I did try reaching out to them a few years ago. When I was working on something and couldn't even get an email response. So, yeah, so I'll be interested in seeing what you're able to bring bring to the conversation about them and what they're offering you. And just to clarify, these are examples. So I mentioned Everled jury and Silk Road because I had the chance to speak with both of them once. So I had like a call with them with Doug and young some few months ago. But again, might be that other cases are, are, let's say more fitting or more ready, whatever. So just that, as I already had some contacts, I thought that these ones are the ones that I could actually go go for. And in case if something didn't go well in one of these cases, learn from it. So, if, if something didn't go well, why. Again, in this view of like also understanding what are the challenges that compiles. Are you really focused on hyper ledger platforms or are you also looking at non hyper ledger platforms for this. No, I would like to focus on hyper ledger because because of this partnership with projects. Okay, very good. That makes sense. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. So, again, thanks for the, for the feedback on this. And I think that makes sense. The kind of rational drivers that you that follows the book. Just to give you a, an overview of the structure that we had in mind. What's what could be the first few sections are in the technical and business review on blockchain and blockchain and ecosystems platforms. The first one I already done it. Second one is something that I'm going to do. There is this kind of focus on on the case studies. And, and finally on the framework so as you may see it's like, it should be like some, some brief reports and nothing, nothing too long. Here an example that's the type that I share here, just in terms of like the cover. This one was on the key ecosystem legendage legitimization attributes, and there were a few people collaborating. How to, how to, let's say put it in in practice and in terms of timeline. The first things the main priority would be to have this kind of desk research, or perhaps also scheduling an interview with, for example, someone from circular and and have a ledger and movie as well. If possible, within, let's say mid December early December, and in the meantime start writing something about the cases based on what's online. And, and then finalizing the, the, this framework that I was talking to you before about and, and this would be the deadline would be 10th of January in terms of the first full draft should be shared. With the consortium and the consortium means all the industrial partners that I showed you before, plus the, the universities. In the meantime, again, it's not just me there are other people involved and our people from this working package. For example, here are people from the other working package, we have other five to six people, mainly professors and PhD students involved in my working package. And so we can get some some feedback from from them as well. So, bottom line. Last, last question last slide. As you may, oops, as you may be actually more expert than me so I'm a researcher I started focusing on blockchain and and studying this this case is one year ago. You may have contacts or data about, for example, these cases or other cases in, in this, in this area, or might you be, or you may even be willing to contribute writing wise, what does it mean, for example, writing a few pages on on on circular on what they've been doing and perhaps helping me in in contacting the interview, which I think could be just one which if one with each of them. Again, the main focus of the of the of the interview might be some numerical benefits. But might be even more actually what are the challenges that are facing in in implementing and scaling this this solutions. So, if you have any other feedbacks or if you're interested in contributing, just let me know and in case of course this would be reflected in the auto ship of the of the reports. I just want to make the suggestion if you go to our wiki on the left hand side of the page there was something the ebook. It was a working page on the ebook, and that includes early drafts of profiles, not just the ones that ended up in the book but a number of other ones as well. So you'll be able to see who, who wrote what. If there's anything you have questions about in our ebook, you'll be able to see from that, who was working on it so that you can reach out directly. Perfect. Yeah, a lot of them were were Tom Jeff me but also Ned Thompson wrote some Daniela wrote one. There are some other people who submitted different ideas. There's a conversation at the bottom of the page about a lot of things as well. That's a good resource. Yeah. And with the, with each of the key ones, the primary ones, let's put it that that way. Where we felt like we had numeric benefit it was a production, etc, etc. There's also a additional additional material, whether that they came and presented to the SIG, or in a couple cases there's a Harvard business review link that was done. Or, you know, we try not to do press releases, because we wanted to be a little bit more factual as opposed to, you know, hey, we have the greatest thing since sliced bread here. You know, they have their place and they're needed, definitely. I had looked at Everledger quite a bit when we started this. And somebody told me that they had gone out of business. They were their big thing they were into reducing forgery about cosmetic lines and very high end items like horses that cost those courses I guess that cost thousands of dollars. And so it was an verification system to show that this is not a forgery that was made by dollars. They were big into that night. Back in 2016 2017 they launched the chai wine vault, which was collection collectible grape wines and, and I think they've been got involved in some liquors. But for that, they, they were, they were also working with IOT devices to ensure that the bottles themselves hadn't been compromised. Yeah. Then they were working with it. Cha Tai Fook are one of the other big Hong Kong jewelry companies as well. So there have been a lot of great projects that were announced. And if it hadn't been for the announcement earlier this year about the bankruptcy. Like, I would have been like we were, it would have made a great case study but the bankruptcy caused some concern. Yeah. So I finished your company, I finished your turn around. I don't know if it's related but then they put in after circle and it's coincidence, but they're not a business. That's what I'm going to share with you and say about the wines. They attract these wines, temperature and pressure. I did find out why they, they use pressure by the way. This is what you touched on Alicia. Why, if somebody opens a wine bottle, you're changing the pressure in that wine bottle with the more the corks can open. That makes sense. That makes sense. So Jean Lorenzo, are you getting what you look for? I'd be happy to provide feedback at, you know, to a draft copy or something like that. And that could definitely be something here. And we have lots of material clearly available. I would do the same. It's all open source so you can use it. Right. That's the part why I wanted to suggest looking at that page, because you'll see a lot of things that that were shared already so that you're not reinventing the wheel. Exactly. And a couple of follow up questions. One, one concerns the suggestions that you may have concerning other cases, for example. And I was speaking about EV batteries, passports, let's call it that way, this way, because of the regulation. Even though they might not be, let's say, profitable or whatever. Someone has to help companies to to get this kind of passports because this is what regulation is going to is going to require actually is the rate requiring. So this just to explain better why why this case or why this specific deep time. But again, do you have any kind of names in mind or contacts in case. For batteries I think of Moby and trample. I mean, if you want to send me an email specifically with what you're doing, I can then send it over to Moby and ask about introducing you. So, so rather than use case topic, there's something that I've been being ahead with a little bit. I'm using the SAP model. SAP was sold on the concept of we could put this system on which make possible as well as dollars you're going to eliminate all this applications out and reduce our costs as early as anybody with that use a fabric for supply chain and so forth and does it Washington as a service or actually running a company. What happens, does it reduce the IT footprint corporations, those are being used cases because there's a lot of maintenance and a lot of manual costs supporting applications and companies are always looking to use that footprint. Full idea of the cloud the whole idea of a lot of stuff is learning out there I search hyper ledger website pages left and right to find out are there any use case examples of somebody bringing in. I should say bring it using blockchain. And also now we can cost 20 apps, but do this work. I haven't seen anything on about it. It makes sense. Those are big companies see that kind of stuff and they jump all over that stuff and SAP was sold on that concept that exists on that concept consolidation of your application never really turned out there, all the way but that's a monster that's still a monster. Why don't you why does the shift to the cloud structure reduction things like that so bring in blockchain software for supply chain. A couple of years ago, there was a GS one trial with data being exchanged between IBM food trust and ripe.io, and I think SAP their blockchain and food logic, I think was food logic from their platform which was not blockchain, showing that the data could be transferred between these different platforms. I suspect that for four companies that worry about losing market share to these newer blockchain platform, blockchain platforms, showing that they can be interoperable is important. So that they don't like this. I looked at this if you like change for the climate economy. Really, they do not have a blockchain. No, who doesn't know SAP. Oh, they're touting. They do not have a lot that we sued for using that word. Well, they're promoting out there is not they're trying to retrofit that ridiculous system of theirs into that concept. It's a joke. If you're thinking about it technically they can't put themselves out of business. Yeah. So do you any of your use case thoughts or looks in your work around displacement or rationalization of applications reducing applications when they utilize blockchain or fabric for supply chains or anything else. Again, in terms of supply chain sector, I basically just started looking into it. So I know quite a lot in terms of like voting implementations but much less on supply chain. Yeah. When I work at VP there's only just a school massive or they still is. They have supply chain software all over the place. Tons of acts. And different parts of supply chain, which is just truck truck management, rail management system system for those things. Time trying to time all the other report out of a matter of massive challenge. Maybe. Yeah. Sorry, I need to leave guys after the hour. Thank you. I'll let you continue here. And then we'll look to hear certainly willing to provide feedback for my personal self here. And thanks. So, thank you. Thank you. Okay. Bye. Yeah, we are a couple of minutes after the hour. So we do want to. Yeah. Okay. So, just want to tell that there might be actually an article written by Tomash. On a similar topic. And very last, last thing I'm sharing the, the link where there are other deliverables that might be interesting for anyone who could be interested. Online now, or from the community. And there are some examples of previous deliverables. That's it. Thank you. Yeah. Are you comfortable with my putting the link to that in the page for, for today on the wiki. Yeah, sure. Thank you. I'll share it there as well. This sounds like a really interesting project. I'm looking forward to reading it. I just want to echo Tom sentiments about I'd be happy to look at a draft and make comments. Like I said, send me an email with a brief description of what you're, what you're working on and what you're looking for. And I can forward that over to Moby and ask permission to enter you. That would be great. Thank you. I'm going to, I'm going to, some ideas that I'm going to put for 2024 things to work on or stuff that I was actually just looking at. Because of my interest as well as some of the stuff I was putting on spreadsheet. Okay, that's a good idea. I'm just going to listen. Why don't we put it on the wiki so that people can access it and so that people can can see that we are talking about and we're looking at different ideas. So you had a, when you were showing the table contents you had one about a technical overview. On that deliverables that you had listed in your agenda or started table contents on the presentation just for I think number two is technical overview. Oh yeah, yeah, that's the one that was that deep technical overview was more of a when I, you know, you invite deep in other words, the software now verifies this information the software consists in the certain memory pools. It's always a question around transaction speed on private blockchains but you get into that kind of stuff where there's no, what's the speed that it comes through on, how does it get, how does consensus work. It's always a question people always have interest in how does consensus work in a private blockchain. Since there's no, there's no gas rewards there's no partners. I briefly touched upon this. It's more like an introduction so what are the main feature. Well, first what is the definition, what are the definitions of each in the definition of blockchain, then also some a few words on consensus mechanisms on the type of blockchains. And that's it. Okay. Yeah, I, I know people work with companies who are blockchain and they come out and they see the stuff in the media and they say yeah that's so complicated. We've got these coins and we've got miners and no no no that's public. There's a private blockchain like your private software point. What is that there's confusion about and I wonder how high that goes up in companies like I'm not going to do that and see what it says there about the value of coins and they're issuing coinage and electricity usage and consensus about I'll get like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, there's two that's private public. Right. It's never discussed that. I just wonder how you touched on that. Yeah, David, David's laughing. A friend of mine at a Canadian company asked me to create a class to present to some of his clients, helping them understand the different blockchain issues and why it might be helpful to their company so I sent him a syllabus for like a two hour intro to this stuff to help the executives understand. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that said, it's eight after the hour I want to be mindful of everyone's time. Jim Lorenzo thank you so much for coming and presenting. Thank you. My pleasure. Right with that I'm gonna I'm gonna end the recording. Thank you everybody for watching.