 Welcome everybody back on a new day on Planet Earth, a new week on a Monday here at the Martinis Eagle Theater Center, the Graduate Center CUNY from New York City in Manhattan, at the City University of New York. It's another week and months of confinement. We just learned all stores will keep in closed restaurants because for one more month, everybody is torn between the realities we see outside the uncertainties inside and the spring and early, early, early the messages of a summer, but we really do not know what will be going on. The numbers are still devastating our health care workers who are now at the forefront that people were overlooked by so many, perhaps also by us theater artists. So we think we have to find new ways to reconnect to our audiences and you find them as people and they are worn out. It's really hard time and there's so many questions out there. Will universities open? Will sports event open in Germany? The soccer game started without audiences. Italy slowly opened out. France had the D-Day, the opening of the Deconfinement Day. And so we'll see how it all will go. Latin America has devastating numbers. It seems to slowly arrive that testing is coming out. And so we are continuing our mission now in the eighth weeks of talks with theater artists from around the globe, significant workers in the field of theater. And today we have an extraordinary theater artist from Indonesia, a country we do not know enough about. We don't focus enough about it. We all should. It's the fourth largest country in the world. It has the largest Muslim population in the world, over 15,000 islands as we just learned. So it's a place of great, great tradition of theater and of course of literature and arts in general. And with us, we have the great Maria, or as she likes to be called, Ria, Trey Solistiani from the Paper Moon Puppets Theater Company, the Asia Society, Rachel Cooper said, Frank, you have to have her on. She was supposed to come to New York to Lincoln Center. It didn't work out and they're doing extraordinary work anyway, but also to this time. So welcome, Ria. Where are you right now? What time is it? So I'm, hello everyone. My name is Ria. I'm at my house right now in Yogyakarta, Indonesia. And now it's 11 p.m. actually. It's time to bed, but it's good to have chat. That's good. So do you have your family with you or how is it going? They said, I'll be in your workshop. Where are we? So we're in my house right now. So this is my kingdom actually. My husband and my son is already on bed. They're not sleeping. Stay there. They're not watching the talk. Maybe he's watching it from his phone select only. But yeah, now I'm at my house because it's in the evening. But usually in the morning, I still go to my studio. So what neighborhood do you live in in Yogyakarta? So in Yogyakarta, I live in the center of the city, which is actually inside the palace area. So for your information in Yogyakarta, we still have King, which also run as a governor. And then there is a kind of like the area of his palace, but people are actually live there as well. So it's the palace area. Yeah, but you're not the palace family. We're not the royal family. So they're just sneak inside the housing area. But yeah, I live in the center of the city and our studio is seven kilometers outside the city. So it's surrounded by forest actually and nearby cemetery. Beautiful. So tell us a little bit. What is going on in Indonesia? Are you, we have to stay at home? If so, how many weeks, days, what's going on? So since last, I think maybe the middle of March, people are starting to be asked to stay at home and all schools close. So this is the second month of it, like all closed, like no schools. My son have been, you know, having studied from home since March and then no office. Like most of the office are closed as well. I think this has happened. I couldn't say like for all parts of Indonesia because it's, you say it's 15,000, but it's actually 17,000 islands. 17,000 islands. So it's really big. So, but since most of the people here work in informal section. So some of us kind of like, you know, still try to find the way you can still go to the market, you still can go to kind of like, of course, hospitals or going to pharmacy. But in a way, like, because in Jogja, it's actually quite a tourist city as well. So no, no tourists, no travel around. So it's, for me, it's the best time for Jogja because it's very quiet. But yeah, starting, I think starting this week's people are kind of like starting to go out and then going to the shops. And I think also there's no really clear information from the government of what should we do. And I think also in the other hand, it's the character of the people. So it's kind of like it's very hard to control in a way. No, you don't have to stay at home. The government does not say you have to pay a fine. Do you know how we hear someone suggested now you're not wearing a mask will be three years of prison. I think in Romania, for some minorities, at least they Roma people, we talked about they would have to pay 3000 euros. How is it there? Do you have to wear a mask? Oh, yeah, we do have to wear masks, but there's no fines for that one. So it's kind of like it's a public social kind of like, we can say punishment, but like people are actually telling each other. So what I found it's very interesting is actually starting the first. It's not really locked down, but it's like independent quarantine, I can say, because each people each individual they're doing their own quarantine. And then it's starting that because we know that there is lack in the beginning there is lack of the, what do you call it the clothes for the health workers in the hospitals. Some of our friends or some of the tailors they switch their work and then they help to make those clothes independently, and then people donate some money and make those stuff and also making masks. And then this month it's starting it's, it started to be shifted a little bit because people start to be hand in hand to help each other by some people are, you know, some artists they stop to do their arts of course because of this condition like they're not making performance, but they cook, and then the other friends are buying their foods you know so this kind of situation is happening to help each other basically. But what is the situation with infections and people who died with with COVID-19. How is the situation. The number is not really clear actually that is that was published to the public. I can say that seems like the government is starting to what would love to start the herd herd immunity. But it's kind of like so again like I've told you that it's still a bit unsure in here and there. People were saying like oh yeah most of the people who got the the COVID-19 it's mostly the one that got a problem first with their lungs. So those kind of you know so that will be fine but we still have to keep our self in distance. You know those kind of very, very variety of of condition, I can say with that. I can say that most of the people hopefully we're still thinking of you know just stay at home and just go out in a very minimum way. But it's not as devastating as in New York City or in New York State. Oh no yeah no not really. So you feel your government did the right thing and and things are working. Well I can say that Indonesian people is quite unique. It's not really easy to control. But you know like I saw some news in United States about there's some you know political situation also involved there and then it makes it very hard. And I can say that people here is kind of like especially in Jogja people are really I can feel like they're taking care of each other. So yeah I can still feel it's safe because of the community itself as well. Especially in the American hospital but also old age homes are hit hard but you don't have that kind of situation at all maybe you also have less old age homes and they're more family structures. Yeah, yeah exactly. So as a theater artist. What did it mean for you are you at all working I do you have things lined up can you go and perform other rehearsals. Well actually all of our because most of paper moons production or tour to internationally. And of course until December we don't have anything happen. Lots of our touring abroad were of course canceled like you say about Lincoln Center we supposed to be performing on May. But of course it was postponed. And then you know this is the time that people of course we couldn't do any stage performance. But we do some stuff actually because starting off the first of April we decided I was just thinking with with paper moons team as an artist what we can do what we can help in this kind of situation. So we decided to can I do the share screen now right. Of course tell us what you what you decided to do. So you're doing, you're not doing puppet shows or online performances what are you doing. So, this is what we did in the big very beginning of the, the, the, what do you call it. Yeah, yeah, the order to stay at home. So starting on the first of April paper moons start to do this in this time. It's exactly like what we are doing right now. The series of talk with puppetry artists around the globe, and then we did it for 18 days actually and every day at 2pm Jogja time, we interviewed lots of artists from around the world basically. So, almost three weeks you had every day an artist. And why we're sorry why we're doing this. It's because we found that we know that lots of our friends who live abroad, got a very different situation with Jogja. I can say here we still have our studio it's still possible for us to go to studio. So you can go in studio in a small group you go and you rehearse. Yeah, exactly we still can do that actually but in a very, very minimum way, because we are taking our own scooter and then go in a very minimum, you know, kind of like amount of people as well. So we found that lots of our friends abroad didn't of course they couldn't get that opportunities at all, even they don't have tools in their house to make puppets or you know making their arts. So by doing this talk we are kind of like saying hi and asking them what have like how are you and and talking about their, their love in puppetry, and we found that it boosts their energy like it gives a really positive energy to them as well. And also to our other people who listen to that we do this through our Instagram. It's very interesting because lots of people are following that and asking questions. So it gives another, you know, feelings it gives another perspective of life in this in this period. When the artists come from the artists you have on your we do have from Thailand, Singapore, Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, United States, Japan, Hawaii as well, Taiwan, Vietnam, French. So yeah, Turkish so it's quite spread around the world. So a fantastic idea what did you learn what do they, what do puppet artists say around the world, how do they deal with the crisis or what did they find that works. This is what we found very interesting because most of them are saying that, of course, this is a very hard time but in another way, we give the space for earth to breathe. This is what we found very interesting that the universe is having a big rest out of the craziness of human being, you know, so, so we found that okay this is the time that we give the space for earth for the universe actually. So yeah, this is what I found very very interesting with this conversation with other artists. And then the other thing that we did actually, we do this as well it called Storyteller in your pocket Storyteller. So we asked people, they can, they can ask us to make whatever performance they want. So they can, I can say they bought a ticket and give us one theme. And then we suit three themes together to make one production, very short performance, but then we will send them directly to their phone cell through their WhatsApp. And then let me get that right so you, instead of artists having an idea and then trying to get the audiences to see the puppet show you ask audiences, send us your ideas you take three ideas, you create an artwork and send it digitally to their phones. Exactly. So we made like around 100 performances because we do have like, maybe 229 audiences buying the tickets for making this happen. And it's, it's been great. I mean, you know, you created over 100 little improvisation shows. Exactly. Exactly. Maybe around 70 to 100 around that kind of and how much do people have to pay to $10. So I could commission you guys. Exactly. Because what we were thinking in this position that lots of people were really struggling with their job, they, many of them they lost, they lose their job, of course, or they got, they don't know what to do. But in the other hand, also everything happened just only on the screen, right. So we found that this is, we could accompany you in a different way because you couldn't see performances. All that you can see is all movies or, or document, documents of performances, but how if someone make a little gift for you that it's made specially for you. So we found that this, this becomes very interesting approach as well for that. And then it can everybody see the shows or is it just those people, the three people who commission only just only those three people who can see the show. So it is very, very special for them because on the day they opened the phone and they said, oh, I got this. Okay, I have to be ready. Some of them say it's great. It's beautiful. Some of them say, oh, thank you. We never know. Some of our listeners, but if they go to the website, Puppet, Paper Moon, Puppet Theater, they could go and commission work. I think it's happened, it's already happened. It already happened. Okay. We made too much for that, like two sessions for that and then it's already finished. Incredible idea. I never heard of that. That's fantastic. Thank you. And then also as an extension of that project StoryTaylor, we decided also to give those performances to the health workers. In our Instagram account, we asked anyone who knows someone who works as a health workers and who you are thinking that they will be happy to receive a little gift from us, which is a tiny, tiny, tiny performances through their phone. Just give us their name and then the reason why we need to send it to them. And then we have plenty of messages came to us to send these photos of those amazing heroes. And then we send our performance to them and they say, like, this is for a company, your break in between your, you know, daily work. Did you get feedback from the health? What did they say? It's really make their heart warm because lots of the time they got, okay, they got gifts from foods, you know, like people are donating foods or coffee or anything, but performance, no, never, they never got that. So this becomes very special for them because they, they can see something that we choose also the theme that it's kind of like lit up their day to make them feel better. What are themes? What are themes you do for health? Like love or, yeah, like, what do you call it? The birth. So it's kind of like some things that give hopes warm. So those kinds of themes that we kind of like suit together. So we send it to them. So these are the photos of those people who receive some of them. Oh, for the healthcare worker around it right now. Yeah, yeah, for that, for the previous photos. But then also we had another project that we did because we know that lots of people keep working through zoom or, or Google Meet always through screen. Yeah, and then we found that, okay, let's make something that they can do something with their hands. So through our Instagram account, we say that we would love to make an online puppet making product workshops. So everyone can make their own puppets from home while we are having, you know, a package to send to them through postal service. So this happened. So we send them a package that contains all the materials because we know that they couldn't go out to buy their materials. So it's paper. Yeah, colors, colors, colors, everything. And then we send it to them. Yeah. And then we do have two sections of class, we can say, so they can try to make Oh, we also send I sent the video tutorial for the puppet making. And then we have the first class to meet when they can, you know, like, say about what is their problems and to know each other, of course. So the second session is the presentation of their puppets. So it's very, that was my very first time to do online workshops actually. What a wonderful idea. So you're sending the packages, you're commissioning ideas from audiences, this is truly a unique approach. Did they also then did the story, right? Do they do the puppet or you also developed stories with them? Do they write little stories? No, we're just making the characters. So they're talking about their characters, who are they and then how they can play around with that. And then we discuss about why this character looks like the maker. So those kind of, because most of them they never make anything like this before. They're, it's very new for them. So the complicated process for making the fingers. So those kind of situation, but not really going to the stories yet. So the finance is that who pays for the packages for the mailage, who, even if people commission you for $10 or for a healthcare worker, certainly that's not enough to keep you working and going. How is that, how does that work? Well, this is the thing about us, I can maybe stop the sharing this thing first. Okay. So what we are, what we found these days is not, it's not about, is it enough or not for us, but at least we can still create something and keep the engine warm. Because I think that this is the most important part, you know, like, keep the engine warm. That's a great idea. Because we found that if you know if we keep being frustrated with the condition, I thought that it won't get better. You know, the thing that can make people feel better is actually to keep spreading the positive energy. And we know that the income that we got from, you know, doing this online workshops or commission the storyteller or everything. It's not the same with what we usually had daily before. But then we found that it's not a big problem because, you know, because this is the most important part is to keep the engines warm. But who pays for it? Or who pays for you? Do you get help from your Indonesian government? Do you have, so you pay out of your own savings? Yes. So for the workshops, actually people pay to join the workshop to get the package. But still it's not most probably not fully covering the cost. Yeah. And also for the performance itself, it's we just running it covered by by those money, but also with paper moon is, I can say we are paying our artists basically. But this is the point that we found that, you know, there is something that more important about about the money in this kind of situation. And that's that's about to support each other. And we found also because for your information in Indonesia we don't have like clear grants, like big grants for artists from our government and like I've told you there are 100 million of people live like million of people live in this country. So we can say that paper moon is an independent puppet theater company. So we survived by selling merchandise and making productions and also running our international Biennale puppet festival. So just merchandise means you have t-shirts or yeah, yeah, you do else. Notebook, tote bags, artworks, many different types of mugs, many things. So you're completely independent artistically operating small enterprise that never expects to get money from a government and but so you had to early on find ways to support your work. And it is truly inspiring and and how are you well known in your in Jakarta in your town to people connect to it. How is it connected to the community what you do. Well, I can say that we are very lucky that we got a big support from our audiences and friends. Paper moon is quite lucky in this condition. That's why we kind of like we keep, we know that the way that we keep to, you know, nurture the communities nurture the audiences or taking care of them. It's really a big point for us because we survived because of them. Well, yeah, I don't know if you're famous or not because we're not in big TV shows or but yeah, we got in, we got in, you know, like, kind of like have a quite big audiences if we do performances. So you're well known also here internationally and there so that's incredible. And also, you know, for our audiences, I mean, especially in the US, there are cases that people break into hospitals, deal disinfectant and mass to resell them on the black market. This is a company of artists, performance and theater artists who take their own savings their own time and work to make the world a better place. And this is what's theater and makes theater and performance people and those in the field we work in so special they're very generous they're open and we really keep the world. We live in in mind and so do you feel some of the things you do now came out because of COVID did you had new ideas or is it things you already did before mail in puppets commissioning place did you do these things before or is it. What's up with this now. So for the story Taylor we did this production live in live performance actually we have a little 10 only for people to, they can come and see the performance they can commission us with any kind of themes we did as part of improvisation. Exactly. Exactly. But then when we shift the medium then it changed, you know, like how we will make it happen. But then right now because we are actually keep thinking about should be, you know, screen our documentation of our last or previous production. In the way of you know moving from live performance to digital, but we found that no it's not like what we would love to do so these days, we are actually doing some experiments for our new productions. So we thought that it would be just only be fit if it's if people see it online. So, so yeah we are still cooking this ideas and hopefully after the idol fit three the big rum, the big Muslim day, we could start to produce that one. I know you're still in the last week of Ramadan. Yeah, do you do you do any artwork in this period. Do you do performances or these days because it will be a week before the Ramadan we are not really making productions this time because all of our team starting to have break and go back to their families because some of them there's quite far so they have to reunite again. Thank God it's happened. So, yeah, for this time we're kind of like cooking some ideas but the production will be happen maybe around June. And it's remarkable we had Lula Arias who is a filmmaker and playwright and director from Argentina who has something completely different but somehow similar. And they are similar because they are so different. We had performing knowledge sessions you ask writers is there something you work about something you, you keep on your mind somewhere in your archives on your hard drive but you have never really shared it. Do that and she used to do that live in a small theater people would come and talk about something they're obsessed. They can do that but she said why not doing that online so she's creating a series of artists who then do that talk online and the same was you did you said we did these kind of stories on demand with audience as kind of improvisational theater practice that one knows from stand up comedy but also here you do the puppet work. And then you say why not commission work but it's a complete change or reversal almost and you'll do get commissions by the audiences without curators in between or be out. People saying you get a grant for this or that it's kind of a direct democrat democratization. Yeah, exactly. And do you think you will continue doing this 100 is a large number you did it some time, but do you think it's a new form you invented and will continue or do you think it's just something one idea we tried out to encode it. No, I think this is really interesting ideas to be deaf loop as well. So we love. I mean our connection with our audience is really close. I would say, for example, like every time we finish our production on theater stage like live performance. We always always invited audiences to come on stage and to talk to us touch our every performance, every single performances. So that's how, how we actually really feel like audiences are really big part of our hearts. So, yeah, through this story Taylor we found that oh my gosh, the reaction or really interesting because you couldn't get the direct reaction in the same time Frank, because it's very different right like what do we do the storyteller inside the tent for people in front of us they can, we can definitely see their reaction and how they see the puppets alive it's very different with when you see the live on screen. So we found that it's always some things that you couldn't replace with screen. But that's why we found that oh maybe we have to try to find another way that makes this production is exactly just only for screen so we don't know yet. Yeah, we're still cooking that ideas but I'm very excited with these new ideas it's actually based on the story Taylor and we develop it again. Maybe one day you combine you send packages people make their puppets, then you get ideas for stories you from them and you write us with them or do something and that's a good idea. Yeah, and it will be a new way that technology helps you to connect that couldn't be done before but it's an ancient technology to bake puppets I mean the great French philosopher said that if you're an ancient traditional form of art meets a new technology something interesting happens takes a while, but this is one of the innovative models we heard about our talk and I'm sure inspiring for everybody who is who is listening tell us a little bit about making theater and performance in Indonesia is that easy is it complicated to audience enjoy do you have restrictions there's censorship fine you already said there's no financial support you have to raise all the money by yourself so tell us a little bit about the realities of making theater. So in this very fast big huge countries each places has its own a very different ecosystem for arts itself. I can say for the contemporary arts it's there only they're very very few big cities that kind of like you can say it represent the contemporary arts these days in Indonesia. So the lack of facilities of in the countries within the countries itself it's also give a big impact to that developing development of contemporary arts. So of course in Indonesia you know like the traditional arts is just happens everywhere. So it means that all of the people, they have that you know like it's in the genes, arts is in our genes. So I can say that even they're not going to like a conventional theater like black box theater production, but performances happen a lot on the streets or tell us a bit well tell us about those performances. For example I can say I can just say about the contemporary production for example, we have very very few black box theater in Indonesia, very few in this city in Georgia itself, we can just only say one or two. And it's not how many people live in your city. Oh, I'm not really counting it more or less more or less. Quite. I don't know like a million I don't know I'm so bad. So it's one one black box per a million people, but theater happens outside but now so many theaters are trying in Europe say we should leave the black box to go outside you have been doing this for centuries. Exactly. What do you what does it work with that with that situation there are lots of artists actually build their own spaces or react give a reaction on that art scene so they can do performances anywhere you know. Of course we do have like concert hall here in Georgia, but not really in a good facilities with the lighting and the sound system and everything. It's run by the government. I can say but yeah well they're like just only very small piece of cake for so many people. Yeah, so I can say that for paper moon it ourselves we do lots of performances in site specific play as well. Like we do performances in antique shops or of course still in a black box theater, but then we try to explore spaces. So what's what spaces like I've told you we did performance in antique shops or library or people's houses. So yeah it's kind of like, and also we also there are some kind of like alternative spaces like coffee shops they kind of like could be collaborate together with artists. For example, every two years we host International Biennale Papa festival that run by and initiated by paper moon since 2008. So this year supposed to be the seventh edition of it on October 2020. Last two years we had 75 artists from 16 countries came independently with their own money. And then we make the production, the presentation of their works in black box theater in coffee shops in the garden in and also in the village. So we bring them to paddy fields, make performance in paddy fields and in people's houses or under the shades. So those kind of really mix of variety. Fantastic actually kind of theater. If New York theater restarts it will be I spoke with Marvin Carlson yesterday the great historian of theater. He will most probably start again in small spaces you know what you you'll be doing now and he said might be also a good thing it might be some reflect for us. Because it's a tremendous loss in the industry all the people who are out of work, Broadway is a big employer of technicians positions actors. And so it's an incredible loss for city like New York that also defines itself through the arts and through this theater. So these are changing times and and so it's important to hear you know what works so you so do people like cafe houses do they pay you do they commission you do you pay to be there. They just say okay come tomorrow at 2pm and build the show. It depends it depends on how the you know the collaboration happened but most of the places here we kind of like, you know, okay you can use our space for free for example but your guests need to buy some drinks from us you know this. I think in off off Broadway situation it's also maybe happen. Almost the same thing kind of like off off off off off Broadway. And then also some spaces we need to pay but still with kind of like reasonable price. So that's why and there are plenty of festival happen in the city Frank. Like I can say, I think some people ever counted like some organization ever counted in Georgia itself we do have three around 350 festivals in a year. Really at one per day. Crazy isn't it crazy. And it's mostly our independent festival. That's incredible and people go enjoy it. Oh yeah. And this functions all without state government funding. Yeah, yeah, so some of them they got supported by the government, but also lots of them they just supported by the communities or they just do it because they've thought this is, this is their passion. You know, this is like some of the people are still thinking that making art is actually part of their religious spiritual spiritual process. So I found that this is yeah, it's how art is part of the, the everyday life there's not a strong separation that you work now and live and then you go see that you feel it's, it is a connected. So some of them are still like that, especially those who are kind of I can say that lots of artists are still doing that stuff like that. And tell us a little bit why, why do you do theater what is your idea why do you, why did you decide to do theater in Indonesia or your country. Honestly, I was graduated from social politics communication studies. I never learned theater in a formal way, and puppetry is something that I found along the way. But living in Jogja it's kind of like being artists is contagious I can say, like, you know you have plenty of friends and they're artists they're doing art activities. You know, Johnette right like you say it about, and he's one of my former director few years back like long, long time ago. So we kind of like got influenced by each other. And then for me in the beginning I love I love making performance because for me it's kind of like making magic. I joined a theater company for four years, and then I decided, Oh, maybe this is enough for me. I love, I love the performing arts production, but not as an actress. So I moved out I teach I thought in kindergarten I work in a ceramic studio so I jump around and try many different things. And then I end up with with my husband because he is a visual artist so we decided to combine performing and visual art, and we found that puppetry is the thing. And I found that, especially with puppetry I found that this is such a magic it's a bridge to communicate between people, because sometimes people couldn't talk to each other they need something in between them. And we found that with puppetry we can really say about really really sensitive issue with even with non verbal performance because paper moves production are non verbal. So, no words. No words. Why. In the beginning we tried to make performances with verbal performance with puppetry, but then on the on a long way to go and actually it was found on 2008 and I found that. Wait a minute, all of these words spoken by the puppeteers, it's not the puppets language it's the puppeteers language. So I found that maybe we have to reduce the words slowly by slowly, but then on 2009 until 2010 me and you and Fendi my husband the co-artistic director of paper moon. We got grant by the Asian cultural council to state for six months in New York to do research about puppetry. So it's actually giving us like really big brainwashed to our mind. And we found that. Okay, let's just try because we found that puppetry has its mother language which is the gesture. So, since then we decided not using words. And then the first production that we tried to make that with complete no words and no gibberish as well was a production about the 1965 tragedy of Indonesia. So it's a silent history. So we found that it becomes a very primary reason for not using words because it's a silent history. So it was the history of Indonesia. Tell us about themes, other themes of your work. What are the plays about. So for that piece it called Muatirika so that piece was actually tour to United States as well to seven cities under the center stage program and that's where actually Rachel Cooper also saw our live production. And it's about because in 1965 there is a big tragedy about the killing of the communists people after the 1965 to 1969, and also lots of communist people were taken to jail without going to the court. And then, until today it's still kind of like a very sensitive thing to be to be spoken to be discussed. In 2010 we found that oh, we have to just do this because we know that the younger generation getting less and less understand about that history. It was not in the history book. And of course if it's written it was written by the, by the power by the big power, the winner. And we found that, you know, it's not true. It's not completely true. So we tried to, you know, and we understand that this could be happened again, if we don't understand about what happened in that past. So that's why we found that it's very important for us to make the show about that piece. That's incredible. That was you said people cannot talk about it. So you make a silent piece about it with puppets, you know, who in a way don't have an actor, they don't have a political agenda. You know, they have pieces of what Basil Jones talked about this how that helped him in in South Africa, he felt they could messages across because of puppet. You know, it's all it's not objective could say things they do of course used words, but it can do things you makes you think and yeah, that's right. And it's also very interesting when we perform that piece in United States there are a couple of people came to like I've told you because we always invited audience to come on stage and they say like I remember that was in Pennsylvania there is a German lady old lady she came to me and she cried so hard and she said like, what happened with my family when the West German and East German separation. So this is like puppetry with non football performance it becomes very wide, you know, because you can project your story to that stage, and you can build your own narration. And there's another Japanese Filipino lady actually came to me and said like this is what happened with my family, when the Japanese soldier came to my house. So this is kind of like oh my gosh this is not only talking about Indonesia it talk about, you know, many different political turmoil that happened around the world. Yeah, so it gives people space to create their own imagination and and the representation on stage just get an open in an open way what are other themes you focus on in your puppet work. It's very interesting because we kind of like always go to the last kind of like theme. So the latest production stage production that we did was the title is Puno Letters to the Sky. This piece supposed to be traveled to Japan actually on May as well. Say the title again I didn't fully hear it. Puno Letters to the Sky. So for this piece it's dedicated for the children that lost their parents. We found that in Indonesia we've faced lots of loss of parents and they have still have little kids because of the health problems you know those kind of or accident. And it's also happened with my family I lost my brother and I have my niece and my nephew as well. So I found that what should we say to this little kids about the loss of their parents. So in that piece we actually asking people through our social media before our production happened. We asked them to send us letters we say to them. If you miss your beloved one who already passed away whoever they are send them letters and write them letters and send it to us and we promise to send it to the sky. We receive hundreds of letters with so many different languages and we wrote it on paper boats and we install it to the ceiling of the theater and by the end of the show all of these letters coming down. And then it's kind of like rain of paper boats with handwritten letters on it. And then people can read one by one of those letters after the show. For this kind of situation we found that my gosh we travel with that piece and every time we finish the production I mean finish the performance. It feels like we're in a we're in a room that people are grieving together and they have the chance to just cry and admit that they're not okay. But then they know that they're not alone. So in that kind of situation we found that well this is sometimes what arts can do to people. And it's very interesting because we perform in three cities in Indonesia and there is a lady that keep watching all production. So she's following us to these three cities. And by the end like the last city she finally came to us came to me and say thank you Riya I've been following this production in three cities and I said wow she's a big fan I mean in the beginning like oh thank you so much. But then she said because this is the promise that I made to my late husband. He died before we managed to see your production. And he's like oh my gosh or a mother said two weeks ago my son passed away and thank you because of this piece I feel like I can speak to him. So yeah those kind of. Yeah, so we really have such a strong connection to your audience what you do is meaningful it helps to understand life go through life. And to come to terms with what we are facing in this for you personally as an artist human being this COVID crisis that it did something change inside you how are you experienced this. I appreciate the smallest thing these days. Like I go gardening and you know I have times to do that and then I got cough a little bit and we got you know stress with the little cough just only about oh my gosh I got cough. So having no having this breathing normally it's a blast because of the situation so I found that. Yeah in this situation I really appreciate teeny tiny things that being founded people that you love it's the most important thing. And then sharing positive energy it's it's a cure that us that's what I learned a lot from this situation. But first with you know we kind of like we kind of like forced to stop and slow down. And I think this is, this is really strong for, for me, basically, it's hard, hard to do to slow down. It's beautiful to slow down beautiful to be slow down, beautiful to be slow down and to appreciate life to to be care to each other, you know and to help each other with what we can do. That's the most important thing that we need to have today, basically. So how do you spend your day? How does it look like a day in the life of a puppeteer in Jakarta? In Jog Jakarta. Jakarta is our capital city. So in the morning I go to watering my plants I started to grow our foods, like plant some veggie tables. And then I'm really into I'm really into plants so these days it's just like heaven for me to just do stuff with that. I play around with my son a lot, like because he's schooling from home so yeah I play around with him. And actually my husband started to create his printmaking studio because he's supposed to do a solo exhibition in New York as well on April. Where? In Sapa contemporary in Chelsea. Oh, Tribeca, in Tribeca. So he's supposed to, he already packed all of his works but he didn't, he couldn't go so. But yeah we keep like it's very interesting because every morning it's all the coffee time for me and my husband. And we discuss a lot about artistic, aesthetic, like ideas. So this is really magical in, because you know as an, like I've told you we have scheduled like a year before planning of months all the calendar are full with colors but suddenly it's all white and blank. So this is for us in a way that we are very lucky that we can still say that this is precious time for us to stop. Because some of other people they don't know what to deal with this blank calendars right but we found that, wow this is amazing this is kind of like this is precious. So it's built more energy to make works in a way. So do you read things or do you listen to different things? What are your, how do you keep your engine warm as you call it? I started to take online classes. On what? Online classes. Yeah, with what? Like storytelling, really get back to the basic storytelling or I just bought an online classes of making children picture your books. And I will start it tomorrow. I'm so excited with that. You know, like lots of long dreams like all making books like okay maybe this is the time to start. So yeah, I'm reading books, children books mostly because I would love to get more inspired to start like maybe I need to start to draw again. So yeah. We don't have TV at home so you're not watching TV at all. So maybe it will be the beginning of the Paper Moon publishing house. Oh, we do have it. How you do. So this is from the. Oh, I see. This is from the letters to the sky production and I made the script into picture your books basically. Now it's actually we are also preparing for a book of Paper Moon. It is written by 25 people from around the world as well. Writing article about Paper Moon puppet theater. And we're now on process on layout thing that and start to print it and it will be published also in English version, hopefully. Fantastic. Very near future. We are back to you one day you come to the Segal Center and you present your work. So do you think Indonesia will will change or your city will change through COVID is your relation to the city and your work. Do you think there will be a difference. Well, I'm not well with Paper Moon's work as soon as we start our work maybe like what you said before, a teeny tiny intimate production will be the best choice for that one to start with. And then we love intimate productions and it's what we've been making actually the production that we did in antique shop it was just contained 25 people. So that will be like that, in my opinion. Also, how about the cities this is very interesting Frank, because in Jogja we got a big, very active volcano mountain. And we got hit by earthquake very big earthquake on 2006. So people in Jogja I can say that's why we kind of like very fast to support each other, because I can say we kind of like get in use to disaster. So, this is what we found very interesting because in the time that it passed then people come back to their life again, like normal life. I don't know what will be the new normal for this time. It definitely will change something to the city especially because this is a tourist and very tourism city, touristic city. So it will change, definitely, but I don't know in which direction. Yeah, that is, that is quite something and for your fellow artists or theater artists, do you think they have, if you say you have 300 festivals and which is just incredible but do you feel till next December till the time. Will they be able to feed themselves to work to be able to survive in a way that is respectful to the contribution they make to the society and the city and the community. So this is what I found very interesting that for our festival itself on October we are trying hard to still keep it, keep it happen but virtually. I know that it cut lots of the team that's supposed to you know set up the lightings and they won't work. So in this way we kind of like there's some festivals starting to support those workers, art workers. Again it's initiated by independent like communities of artists. So, yeah we can say that how will they survive it's how we can just live in an enough for now I think, you know not really like you said about asking about did you get paid well with that, I don't know but maybe this is enough for now. And to make sure this is how to make sure that everyone are in the same loop. And this is our big homework today. I mean, you know, I keep asking questions to our friends, our technical manager, because you're not doing performances with them right like, are you okay can we just discuss to make something. And even like okay let's make a package of hampers for idol fit three and then we'll sell it to support you guys, you know those kind of situation. It's the way that we really try to kind of like. You produce things I mean we heard devastating account just now also from Brazil. Last week where they say it's really about existential survival life here there's no support actually the guy from this openly hostile. The Ministry of Culture was completely shut down. As you know Anna Rupa Roy from India said you know hundreds and thousands of people out there's an artistic village of artists of 1000 or 1000 800 families she helps to support. And they don't have enough to but you feel Indonesia in a way as a society will be able to provide in some way that people come out of this. I can feel that because I don't know about the other cities, because I think it's quite different in many different places, but in Georgia I can just say in in our city itself like for example I just saw my friend posted on Instagram, or in Facebook they in their street, they start to put foods like vegetables or whatever rice outside their gates so anyone who feel they need it they can just pick it up. You know those are very very simple very basic, but it's such a big gesture for me. Yeah, yeah, so like there is a school in for what you call it like street children. They're making farm, and then they're open if people would love to donate some money, you can get some vegetables but these other veggies will go to another community that will need it. So I found that this is very big happen and we're not that kind of like lock lock lock down like Italy, you know, so we still can, we can still go and you know it's not that really not really stressful in that way, you know because other countries you really couldn't go like thinking about India oh my gosh yeah I'm a good friend of Anurupa as well so it just like couldn't imagine that it's very, very hard situation. Yeah, and to you we are coming closer to the do you feel there's something that you wish would change or what a government could do or should make your work easier is there something you feel you can you can ask for what you would dream of that would make your work easier. Wow, this is a bit it's a very hard situation I think because no government already with this situation, like no one in this whole world already with this situation. The thing I don't know I couldn't say anything to maybe this is we're getting used to work with ourselves so thinking of asking the government to do something it's, you know, as long as they just provide the good health care and facilities. It's amazing, you know, and I really wish for the people that can help hand in hand it's I think the people powers is what really we really really need today. It's not just only hang on you know the government or the rich people or whatever, but all hand in hands I think it's it's it's the time for that. So everybody is called to action to participate to be exactly involved and and make the world a better place I since you also teach and give seminars. What do you say to young artists who are coming out whether it's Indonesia people who listen to us, also our viewers what do you think is the important thing to focus about what to keep in mind in this time of corona and this time of lockdown. Keep your engine warm. So that's, that's the first thing like you just need for me for us in Paper Moon we have this in the COVID-19 era we have this statement of imagination is much more bigger rather than space. So, even our body is locked, you know, our imagination snits to be, you know, going somewhere else, it can go further and bigger. So I hope that each, each of us can can help each other to keep that alive because that is what we really really need these days Frank. Like, you know, if you don't have more, you know, clear ideas or imagination or positive energy in your life, it's all go very very dark and very hard and it's, I can say like, let's try to make a little lights in this foggy night. So I think that's what we can do together. We need to do together to pass this. No, this is a wonderful symbol to create light in the fog of life we live in and to keep the engine warm and to participate and to, you know, make this world a place that is accessible for everyone and then to also think about everyone. This is a wonderful, inspiring conversations. Thank you so much for staying up so late. It's almost midnight. I've got pumped out. My battery is on. Yeah, I see your light is on, your lantern and in the very back, it's a beautiful space you have there. So really, really thank you and I hope you will be back to New York and also shows the significance of institutions like the Asian Cultural Council Asia Society, you know, to help us to connect to be together and to influence that you came to New York and something happened in your work and then New York artists travel and go go around so thank you really this was an important update and I hope that everything will work out as planned and that it will be time soon that go back to to sharing life together with everyone and we will go on this week with our talks tomorrow we have Pamela. Pamela Rezzi from Italy an actor director who runs this theater in Palermo in Sicily, that will be on the and she will come to us this. Orlando, the mayor, the great mayor of Palermo, we hope refugees to get up for those with permissions who really took a stand that his city is a city of theater and the significance of cooperating including engaging with the refugee community Palermo of course in Sicily is much closer to the front lines in Europe and that's idea so it's an important update and to hear about the revitalization of that town and the great Richard the great master of theater experimental theater in theater in general will join us on Wednesday and talk what's on his mind which is always enlightening and significant Thomas over and from Berlin and the Berlin festival who runs the Corpus Valle the immersion festival, the theater treffen, the theater meeting in Berlin and overlooks the film festival as well as the jazz festival he is one of the minds that observe the landscape in Europe and in Germany and it's the first time we also will see the curators now joining us we slowly opening up to curators thinkers, philosophers others, so I will be interesting to hear his take what the ramifications will be and how he is experiencing this from his from his home and on Friday we have a New York artists with us Philip how will come and and talk to us and and give an update to how he experiences as a as a playwright and he will be joined by two other guests I don't see not all fully clear who it will be but it will be the insight into the New York theater community so thank you really for joining us thanks to our listeners for taking the time out of the busy days we all experience how fast the day passes even with this strange to think that it's been two months now and how often how fast two months past two months past in our normal lives we don't even recognize it on the way it kind of slowed us all down but made us reflect but it also moved fast and is a significant time an important time in life as you said the universe wants to breathe as some people say maybe the world is a dream by a God and he takes he takes a break and we are experiencing that so we look forward to our upcoming talks and thanks to how well and again see our travels for for hosting us and DJ the seagull team some young and a great Andy who just joined us he said goodbye to Jackie and Jackie who went on different different past so thank you all for coming I hope you will join in tomorrow and stay safe stay tuned all the talks can be accessed on how around just going to how long to how long and the artists on the seagull center YouTube side again thank you so much this is being an honor to talk to you and I look forward to meeting you in New York one day thank you so much Frank for having