 Yeah, well Anthony if you want you can still log in as he is He's logged in as himself. Oh, he is okay. I see I see that's came back but if you if you log out and log in through the The YouTube event page. Mm-hmm. You should be able to help okay. We don't don't need to do that now, but Should the worst happen? Well good and do that now. It's just in case Now we have one minute will he return That's still going What I Never imagine so I just use that as a reference. I have to imagine still going. I mean Over time you build up an audience for something and there's no obvious sign that like blending technology You know has like declined an interest I See a big red button in front of you. Okay, cool. Yep. I'm on it The most recent will it blend was from July of this year. So yeah, wow, and that was the Amazon echo, right? Was it I thought it wasn't like hmm. I mean, I think the answer is yes, it will It's not so much that it's a question it's more of like, what does it look like afterwards? Yeah, how does it blend? Yeah, let's get into let's dig deeper Does it blend well? What does it blend well with? Does it explode when it blends? All right. Are you guys ready? Yeah, I'm down Yeah Here we go Thanks to everyone who supports daily tech news show directly to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech News show for Monday, August 27th in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt and from studio feline I'm Sarah Lane and welcome to our roundtable show the show We do once a month where we expand the regular show into a full-fledged roundtable discussion a full hour of media discussion between myself Sarah Lane and our guests joining us today Jason howl host of tech news weekly and All about Android and of course musician at yellowgoldmusic.com and so much more Jason How's it going dang it that makes me feel feel way more important than I actually am Very important when I look at that my time spent on things throughout the day I never realized that it would actually make a list of things that I actually do but there you go I'm happy to be here you guys. I love joining you on DTNS Thank you And we are gonna talk music tech today because we also have with us Dale Chase You can find him at dchase.bandcamp.com. He's also a software engineer. How's it going Dale? Great? Thanks for having me guys. I'm really excited to be here to join you guys Our producer Anthony Lamos aka Amos is with us as well. Although Roger isn't quite gone yet Amos, how do you feel? Can you if Roger has to step out mid-show? Are you you're ready, right? I'm gonna try to figure it out All right, while all of our topics today cover cover news of the day in some respect We're gonna start with a few tech things you should know Uber CEO Dara Khazrasha he told the Financial Times that the company plans to shift its focus from cars to bikes and scooters for Inner-city rides Khazrasha. He said quote it's very inefficient for a one ton hulk of metal to take one person ten blocks Acknowledge that it could reduce uber's profits in the short term. However, also the Wall Street Journal says that Toyota plans to invest $500 million into you Uber What a feeling for uber Bloomberg Mark Gurman and Debbie woos Sources say Apple's gonna launch three phones in September not a big surprise there But the details are a 6.5 inch OLED an updated 5.8 inch OLED That's what the iPhone 10 is right now So an update to that a cheaper 6.1 inch phone with an LCD screen and Analyst Min Chi Kuo said his sources indicate the announcement would happen the week of September 9th With the two OLED models available by the end of September and the cheaper model available slightly later due to a production schedule issue Bloomberg's Gurman and we also mentioned that Google plans to announce the Google Pixel 3 and Pixel 3 XL in New York on October 9th According to their sources Previous sources had indicated October 4th for the pixel announcement So gonna have to wait another five days if these sources are correct maybe Microsoft posted an announcement of all access. It actually happened That's the one that lets customers buy an Xbox along with the Xbox game pass and the Xbox live gold Subscriptions all for one low monthly price and after you do it for two years You own the console that you get through this the post detailed that the plan with the Xbox one s as expected cost $22 a month and the Xbox one x plan cost $35 a month Oculus Rift inventor Palmer lucky wrote a criticism of the magic leap on his blog Monday titled magic leap is a tragic heap Lucky focuses on criticizing the controller tracking the UI. He also said the headset is not significantly different from other air headsets He did praise the decision to put the computing in a separate wearable component called the light pack Friday Google researchers published a flaw in the installer for epics fortnight app for Android Users will have to launch the installer or the game itself to get the new patch Because it won't be pushed through the play store since it's not in the play store because of this epic had requested a full 90 days Before public disclosure, but Google's policy is to wait one week after a patch is made broadly available So they stuck to the letter of their policy and in other Google news the company is now rolling out It's time watched YouTube feature helping users keep better track of how much they've watched today Yesterday or over the past seven days. This is according to Google the company first announced the feature at I owe earlier this year Alright Sarah, let's start with our first round table topic. Yes. I'm very excited about this Particularly because we're going to start with you Jason because you are a musician. You're a you know, you compose music You know a lot about how it all works. So What we're going to focus on at the beginning of this round table is a little bit of Why it's rewarding and why it's challenging to be an indie musician these days It's very chat. It's equal parts both I picked this topic because it's something I struggle with continually like I I only really have a couple of albums that I've ever put out there And I always feel like it's it like for myself on a personal level. It's a big accomplishment to like work For X amount of you know months or years however long for in my case a little too long to be honest But then to finally come out the other end and have something to show for it Like that's a big that's a big accomplishment The reality is that anyone can do that right now because we all have technology that allows us to do this Yet there's so many other hurdles that come along with this I feel like people sometimes in these conversations around like You know what how democratic making music is now how anybody can do this and become a overnight success I think what's lost a lot of people at times especially with people who aren't musicians is this idea that Along with this kind of capability having the power and the ability to do all of these things Nowadays that were very hard or very expensive to do 20 years ago Is this idea or this assumption that a musician Also needs to know how to do all of that and needs to be be the executor of doing all of that So kind of kind of my idea here was that there are a lot of things that are super Rewarding about being a musician right and and things that make it super enjoyable We've got social media which basically means that you're constantly connecting with fans and that you have this direct vein into You know into connecting with the people who actually care to listen to your music and reach out and say Hey, I really like what you're doing that feels good as a musician to get that That was kind of hard to get 20 30 years ago to get that direct line crowdfunding. Obviously that's a huge Tool that I've used in in the two albums that I've done is yellow gold crowdfunding was kind of I mean, I actually honestly tom kind of followed in your footsteps in that regard because Years ago you were kind of dipping your toes in Kickstarter and I was like, well What's the thing that I have to kickstart and it ended up being music So, you know big big thanks to you for for setting the example there But having that as a tool having that as a as a an avenue to explore Can be really effective if you have the right pool of like potential backers We've got all sorts of digital tools that that enable so much for so little cost online distribution. It's way easier It's also less expensive and less complicated than say physical distribution And literally anyone can make music and distribute it online and appear in the big store So yes, Sarah if you if you open up your garage band and you make a song you make an album or whatever You can you know use a service like distro kid and they're going to do all the distribution for you And put your music in all of these stores So it's almost like you're surfacing in the places that all of the the pros are You know the the people that have been doing the the career musicians are there right alongside you and that's very empowering So those are some really good avenues for being an independent musician Although doesn't the market being so crowded with people who are you know experimenting? Maybe I can do this. Maybe I can and maybe they you know There's either lose interest or you don't get enough attention or whatever I know on the video side. This is very much true How do you deal with that reality that so many people have these cheap tools? Right. That's a huge challenge. I mean, that's a gigantic challenge, right? It's like on one hand things have been democratized to the point that anybody can do that and so empowering That we have the ability to replicate what used to have been, you know Many hundreds of thousands of dollars in a studio We have that now on a computer that we pick off the shelf when we go into a store And so that means that everybody can get in there They can make music and that's super empowering But you're right the challenge then ends up being wow, there's a lot of noise in here You know what? I mean standing out really reaching that critical mass can be super challenging You you have as a musician you have to then Have sharpened your tools in the other areas you have to be a jack of all trades And that ends up for me on a personal level that ends up being my downfall, right? Like I love making music. I love being a musician I love recording technology and getting in the studio and playing around with things and layering vocals and and even choosing art like You know picking art or creating art for for the packaging even putting together the Kickstarter is a lot of fun It's the longevity of it and and making sure that you maintain that constant kind of presence presence in front of people Beyond because as you know attention fades super quickly right now in so many things not just music online but if you're not keeping super vigilant And keeping connected with those fans in some way then you're going to lose their attention And it's going to become way more difficult to both stand out and continue to be in front of them as you go forward That's a huge like that's a huge fault of mine. I have a really hard time with that Well, I know dale's going to talk We're going to talk with dale in our next topic a little bit about social media and reaching out and engaging the fans Out in the world, but but dale, how do you how do you feel about this other half of what what jason's talking about? Yeah, I you have to do all the work yourself Yeah, I did want to jump off of that point exactly because it's like It was it's great that we have all the technology now and the internet and social media But like all these things are what like your record label used to do for you, right? And now so we've kind of gotten the shackles off of the label But now you're taking on all those responsibilities now. So it's like you've got all this freedom now Uh to do what you want, but yeah, you've got to do it all now The freedom to do what you want means the freedom to do it all Exactly. Yeah I think a lot of you know record labels get a bad rap, you know, they take too much artist money and you know It's sort of an old way of doing things But I think there is something to say about okay, we're going to take care of you. You just be creative Exactly. Yeah, we've got a team and we'll figure it out when you have to do it all yourself A lot of that stuff ends up being You know, it's kind of busy work. It's not that fun Come down to how much you really value that freedom or how much you want to like have someone else take care of that Take take take that on for you, you know Yeah, and no matter what there's always going to be the people out there that as as creatives as digital creatives They love every single step of the process and they've got the time They've got the band within the ambition to really kind of drive all these things You see some of these people that kind of rise up through the ranks of you know Being like a youtube musician or a soundcloud musician or whatever and they you know, they've they've started with nothing They started in the bedroom with with a piece of technology a computer and maybe a couple of musical instruments But they've somehow got the the the long-term vision and I think mostly that drive to stay connected in all of these pieces To make the connections they need to to put you know one foot in front of the other and ultimately build this to become A grander thing than somebody who's just a really great musician But has a hard time managing all of those other things You know like do I as as a person have the time every single day to go on my social media platforms of choice? And broadcast out. Hey, I'm working on this or teasing out a picture of the guitar that I'm using to you know, write the song That I'm working on just designing a cover and absolutely materials and and doing all the things That that maybe you're you're not an expert in because you can't be an expert in everything No, but but I think the tools are so democratizing right now That there are a lot of people who feel they can be an expert in everything and more power to them A lot of people are proving that they just have a great digitally creative mind and that they can go well what I need now is I need a piece of art I'm going to go out you know with my digital camera shoot a bunch of things take it into photoshop And you know like they just they think through Starting to end and they can actually turn that into something really pleasing in the end that does something for them And I'm amazed when people can pull that off Dale, how do you feel about that yourself because I bet there's some musicians out there who think Yeah, that's great if you can do it But I don't want to it sounds like work No, I mean I'm uh, I fall in the camp of like I want to do it all myself and I'm inspired it I've got so many ideas and so many things I want to get done But it's like I've got a song that I just finished really excited about it love it I need to do a music video for it, right? Oh, that that's where I'm like, I need to get with somebody and to come up with an idea You know probably put down some loot for it, you know That gets overwhelming for me like the idea of a music video This is actually a realization that I've had with this this album that I released earlier this year um And and that's that you can only do Okay, let me take a step back the first the the first album that I released on Kickstarter ever won was what four years ago And I think what blows me away between four years ago and now is just how much things have evolved and changed in a single four years time, right? Like four years ago video wasn't as necessary Sure, if you had a music video on youtube to accompany the music on your album that was nice Now it almost feels essential because google is doing a You know taking google as the specific example google's doing all these changes with google play music suddenly is turning into youtube music And there's way more of an emphasis on on video now not to mention youtube as just like a behemoth as a juggernaut So many people are on youtube because that's how you grow your air quotes brand That's how you you know build up this following youtube's a great platform for that So then you're expected as a musician to have some sort of a music video. I've never done a music video I mean aside from I think nsfw on the last album They they did a crowdsourced music video and yeah, that was pretty cool But I mean I I don't even know where to begin on that so then it becomes super overwhelming I'm like, you know what peace out. I got my album. I'm cool with that move on to the next thing Well, there's also the element of if you you know, if it's a song you love the song, you're proud of it Sure, it's a whole other creative thing like how do I make this viral video wise? Which is not really probably what you ever thought about when you thought of this great song Yeah, absolutely trying to try having to think about your music is like a A marketing machine or or you know think of those elements behind it Kind of can also cheapen it a little bit right because I think as a lot of times artists Want to think of the the art that they do as something that's pure and I do it because I love it and I enjoy it And but when it gets down to it Yes, you can do that But if you really want to make a business from it, you also have to monetize it and you have to Put some sort of a marketing mind behind it to take it to that next level and sometimes I can feel Kind of like you're selling your soul. I think if you care so much about what you're doing, you know So it's a challenge. It's hard to promote yourself. I've always found it Totally, you know if you believe in the the work it's it's it's that's it's a whole other thing We haven't even talked about uh the accounting side of it, right? Like on the one hand if you're creative You may be like interested in creating an album cover You may be interested in creating a video and you can find a friend who can help you put a put a video together You probably don't want to deal with taxes Making sure you got paid and which is the best distribution channel to maximize your return and and all of that I mean, where does that fit in for you guys? Ah, I mean, that's that's a hard one too, right? Like I I know broad broad strokes Ideas on on taxes, which is, you know, general in general set aside 30% unless you plan on on spending everything Pay them. Yeah file them and pay them or and and obviously I am not a tax accountant So don't follow my stupid advice here But or you take the money that you make from this endeavor and make sure that it goes back into fund the business, right? And there anything that's spent there is not considered against your taxes And you could essentially spend it all on music related purchases that tie into your business And you won't be liable from them from a tax standpoint But I mean keeping track of that like I mentioned a service a little bit earlier called distro kid Which is an online music distribution It's made by the the same guy that did that fd company website So yes, exactly And I mean there are other services just like this But what what they allow you to do is they allow you to say these are all the music services that my music will appear on Uh, you know in the case of distro kid. It's like a single yearly Cost that's really not that much considering what you get out of it And then all of that money all your album success on all these networks is tracked And then there's like basically a bank through distro kids So they kind of manage that but that leads into another kind of struggle Struggle that I have or and I think a lot of musicians do which is this idea that now Convenience and streaming is so important as compared to the physical sales You know people just aren't buying anymore whether it's physical copies like an actual cd. What is the cd anymore? Versus just going on to Spotify and saying yeah, I'll add that artist and I'll listen to their music Like the amount of money from an artist standpoint that you earn from Straight-up digital streaming versus actually someone buying your product buying your album and and keeping it I mean, it's just miles apart. That's another huge difference between four years ago and now four years ago with ever one Uh, there were there were a still a decent amount of people who missed out on the Kickstarter And bought the album digitally actually bought it didn't just stream it and this time around I think more people are just adding it on their library and streaming it and that's that's awesome I want people to do exactly what they want But it's a consideration as a musician if you want to make you know make money and make a career out of this now That's a really big hurdle. I personally. I don't know how you overcome it It's just what I accept way of thinking about it right with a cd You see a big margin of money from each unit So it feels like you're making money with streaming You see an infinitesimal amount of money from each unit So it feels like you're not making money But there is more money going into streaming from users than was being spent on cds. Yeah, so that money's going somewhere It's a matter of figuring out How do you extract that money as a musician? How do you get your plays up? How do you strike better deals? Whatever Dale, how do you feel about streaming versus product like that? uh Yeah, I I kind of look at it the same way as jason. I I've I'm seeing revenue from stream But yeah, I don't see a lot because I don't have a huge volume when it comes to that But yeah, I I I see that that is where everything is going And it really is about just kind of getting that exposure and having more people listening to it And that's how you gain more fans is through the streaming That's how you get discovered essentially more and more So I'm looking that's why I look at more other venues to kind of promote like youtube and things like that to kind of get My name out there more so people are seeking you out more in other places like streaming services Mm-hmm. All right. Well that brings us right into dale's topic Let's let's move on to topic two how you leverage social media to break into the music scene engage with your fan base Secure gigs and venues, etc. Like all right. We talked a lot about making the music But how do you get people to listen to it? um Well, so this is how I this is why I got stuck on youtube a little bit because that was sort of uh My first success so I had written coda girl and done a video for it, you know in queen's new york And uh tweeted to at the time Gina shrapani um was the editor at lifehacker at the time and was doing grease monkey scripts, you know for gmail And I was watching hack five and seeing shannon morse doing We hacks and between the two of them I was inspired to write the song So after I'd done the video and I was like and I was like, oh, I've got something here, you know and so I tweeted at both of them on a Tuesday afternoon where I figured everyone was in front of their computers um and You know, Gina saw I retweeted it and at the time she had something like 65 000 followers and I think shannon was somewhere around 20 or 25 maybe 20 25 000 and um, but anyway, you know, they retweeted it and um, it's sort of sort of you know Catched and sort of go semi viral, you know, and uh, and so that's why I that's I'm sort of chasing the dragon as far as I'm trying to like recapture that like with with with every release at this point um Um, but but also through that so I had made friends with shannon through that And it was it was something that was relevant to her interest and you know, we connected They started using my music in hack five and I got more fans from that um, you know, uh started going to Conferences and selling my CDs there, you know with them at def con that sort of thing. Um, so Yeah, kind of my thing is, you know find forums Um that are related to what you're doing in some respect I guess with me it's a little easier because my stuff is so like geek centric So like when I do my doctor who songs I go to a doctor who forum and post in there Hey, check out my party anthem, you know set in the world of doctor who Or you know go to some other, you know some some coder forum and say hey, you know check out my song that uses all like, you know Linux references, you know, it's like So it's that kind of thing I kind of find where everyone is that that is that niche that you're looking for And then you know put in front of them So deal, what are some of your I mean, where's the doctor who forum what platform are you? Oh, where do you find you, you know, you get the most interest from Yeah, I know that audience. Yeah, I'm just just looking around I think I was I think it was a doctor who facebook page or something like a fan page that I was posting things in This was like a little while ago. Um, yeah, just um, just be creative and like, you know search and then look for Things like getting a lot of traction that you know forms that are getting a lot of traction I know that uh, I don't want to speak for them. But you know musicians like jonathan colton Uh made their name with with kind of novelty like songs, you know Code monkey and and stuff like that and then created more serious less novelty songs that maybe didn't capture as much attention And and like I said, I don't want to speak for jonathan, but I know if I were a musician I wouldn't want to get pigeonholed and like oh now I always have to have a funny song You know full of references if I if I wanted to get any attention Do you two musicians deal with that as well? Like getting pigeonholed basically That's something that I have been uh cognizant of especially more recently Like with all the political things that have been going on actually wrote like something that was Super political like a few months ago and I didn't really promote it and I just kind of put it out just because I was like This is something I need to get off my chest. Um But and but I'm working on the new project now. I was like, you know, but Well, I I do those songs because that is who I am ultimately, right? So it's not really like I'm pigeon pigeonholed pigeonholing myself But but I do want to branch out and do more things So I feel like I just just do a mix of like things that that kind of run the gamut for me But it is something I do think about Yeah, um thinking about pigeonholing. I I feel like Pigeonholing would imply at least in my mind With the music that I make that there are enough people that are paying attention And that have opinions about something that they have an expectation about what you're doing And uh are willing to express that or maybe you recognize that that might be the case My my whole drive with yellow gold, you know, this started I started yellow gold probably like 25 26 years ago You know when I was in high school My whole drive the entire way along was never This is the type of music that I write is yellow gold But rather I'm just writing music that I enjoy at this moment in time and it's called yellow gold It all falls in the yellow gold bucket. So everyone sounds way different, you know Then fever dreamer, which is the album from this year So I hope to not ever pigeonhol myself because then I feel like I'm Writing to a particular thing as opposed to just kind of writing music because I enjoy it So thankfully I thankfully I mean I don't have the pressure Of having massive amounts of fans that have expectations on the music that I write, right? I can write whatever I want. It doesn't matter But I mean it there, you know artists on all sorts of levels of you know, celebrity and audience numbers you know, if Beyonce puts out an album that's Totally a departure from anything that anybody ever heard from her before everyone's gonna be like what's the risk, right? Yeah, when you get to a certain point, then you know, maybe you're you know, that's considered like creative genius But when you're starting out and someone likes what you're doing and you decide to change course Uh, because again, you're a creative person who just wants to make the music you want to make It can be I would think um for somebody who's building an audience rather than The audience already having been there Uh, that makes the social media aspect of this even more important because you have to communicate what what what is this? What you know, what's going on in your life? What's happening? Why does it sound different? Yeah Yeah, Dale what you were saying as far as like writing for like a tech You know a tech geek geek culture, you know a tech influence songs that sort of thing I think it's brilliant for building an audience and it ties right into kind of the power and the effectiveness of using And leveraging social media to build your audience because because it is possible to find those people right like if you're making just You know If you're making music that's that's rock music and you're like, you know what my music is going to appeal to a fan of radio head All right How many people are there are are making music that they think will appeal to fans of radio head and this rock music It's such a wide pool that again it goes back to what we're talking about earlier Just this the the struggle of being you know in this in this pool of music surrounded by so many other people that So much noise you never stand out at least if you're able to pick and this is probably why it worked really well for jonathan colton You're able to pick out of your own passion. Hopefully A particular niche that you can write to that Let's hope hasn't really experienced that in such a way before they haven't really had their anthem If you can write to that and you write something that's really going to catch Their attention because they don't have much music written for them. That's a fantastic way to stand out, you know And but hopefully somewhere along the line You know tying back with what you were saying tom you can do this in a way that doesn't doesn't like narrow you into only writing Those those anthems you can brawl the next yellow gold album will not be called side loading fortnight No, that if I wanted to catch that wave that was like a month ago or a couple of weeks ago You laid on that one. Maybe it's going to be artificial intelligence robots or I don't know Yes, but I think I think you're on to something Well, and I think if you're if you're a front man, right? If you're a vocalist who loves to be on stage and perform or even a guitarist A bassist, whatever, you know, then the social media game Is natural you want to play to the audience you want to communicate with the audience You might even want to be combative with the audience Depending on your style. Well, what if you're the drummer though? Or what if you're the guy who's you know, just who turns around away from the audience and that's wants to make the music But has a hard time Reaching out and being public when that's you know, this ties us back to what we're talking about in our first topic You know, it's it's hard to promote yourself Yeah, I mean it's it's hard when um When you When your purpose is to write music And your purpose is not to do all those other things you enjoy being part of the process But you don't necessarily enjoy directing the process. I'm sure there's a lot of people Let's say you even love the accounting part of it. You're fine with everything. You just don't want to talk to people Well, I mean to a certain degree you gotta gotta get over that part I guess like well, that's probably why we all know like a few drummers who are really good And you're like, why aren't you in a band and they're like, oh Yeah I was a drummer in high school So I feel like I was speaking on behalf of myself not all drummers hashtag right there Or or maybe we have like uh enough kind of avenues now though Then maybe they're really good at taking pictures this drummer like maybe you can just get on instagram and take pictures of their drums, you know Yeah, right, right. No, that's a really good point. Like what are the various outlets? You know, it's not just twitter and facebook anymore. What are the effective places to to promote your music? Actually instagram has become very popular for promoting music I think uh people are kind of sliding away from soundcloud a little bit more even though it's super popular, but um Um, like I'm not really on instagram, but I it looks like like people are you know going there for promotion and all that now instagram just feels like Like a really big destination It has been for a while for for a number of reasons and I think you're probably exactly right and that's such a man That's such a hurdle for me. I am not my My habit is not instagram You know what I mean? Like I think if of social media habits that I have the only one that I have anymore is is probably twitter and twitter's actually have In in many ways a very ineffective promotional platform, right? Because it's so it's such a drop in the bucket you put out an announcement you say hey I've got a blog post that's on the music production process of this album Whatever and unless someone happens to be there at that very moment to spot it To click through and then you know a handful of replies, whatever Like it's it's just going to fade away. So some of these other networks instagram I think is better at that instagram is so visual that it's easy to catch someone's attention Just pure you know instead of just being a wall of text But but it's so far outside of my own personal habit that it feels like such a Mountain to climb to get into the instagram habit, you know, I mean obviously instagram has a huge user base But dale, why do you think that people would be turning away from soundcloud? I can think of a few artists that I know from soundcloud That got you know, they they they were very successful hip-hop artists, especially from starting on soundcloud. I mean is it just Going where the people are going or yeah, maybe your personal preference. I mean it just seems like you know with These sites these services in general like they have like their their high moments and people kind of like slide to something new whatever the new thing is So if instagram if I could speak in 90s terms if instagram is the flyer And soundcloud's the cassette tape then like bandcamp is the stepping up to cds from soundcloud um, well, I mean I see bandcamp more of uh, a way for me to kind of Sell my music or or kind of make it available for people that's the merch table. Yeah, that's exactly Yeah Yeah, I love that because like people can pay I let people pay what they want on there You know, so you know a lot of people pick it up for free and some people will pick up like my whole catalog for like, you know 50 bucks, you know, it's like, uh, it's I like I like giving people that freedom Do you think uh dale just a curious question Do you think that being a musician now? Being an independent musician at this point in time means you have to be okay with the fact You have to accept the fact that that your music is only as value as someone ever feels like it is You know, I mean like in the in the old in the old guard your music was as valuable as whatever you charge for it People paid paid it or they didn't now it feels like and I'm totally happy to do this I've always operated under this assumption that like my music is free But if you want to give me some money great go for it. Do you do you think that's more important now than ever? um, well I look at it more as like I still feel like I haven't like arrived yet, right? So Uh, I I still feel like I want as many people to experience it as possible right Yeah, yeah, that's kind of a become become a A rule of thumb which is give away your music until you're so big that you can afford to not give away your music Yeah, uh, yeah very well put at what point do you feel like it is worth it to to sign a contract with a label Knowing you're you're getting the benefits of helping out with all of the business side of things and distribution sides of things But giving up a little bit of freedom That's a good. That's actually something I haven't really given a lot of thought to Um, I would think that if I had you know achieved what I thought was a certain level of success And they came to me with something where I was like, yeah, this uh looks really good to me um Then I think I'd think about it a little bit harder that I just actually signing with label I'm sorry. No, sorry. No, sorry. Plus I've I had gone through like that kind of stuff when I was younger And had a had developed a bad taste of my mouth a little bit And I just and it was just like, you know, I just landed with the wrong people, you know at that time And uh, I wasn't like mature enough to kind of like work my way through it And how I just kind of just like, you know, I'm gonna just like do my thing on my own for a while Makes you wary, right? Yeah. Yeah, and I kind of just stuck with it Yeah, I mean I feel like um, I like like you Dale I don't know what point that level would be that I would have to cross where I'm like, you know what? I'm willing to do this. I do know that if it's not apparent by now There are certain things that I know I'm not very good at If someone was to come along and say, hey, you know what? We'll take that off your shoulders We take a cut But we'll go ahead and do that and and they would have to be able to actually prove that they could they could do that Successfully, you know, I wouldn't just it wouldn't just be snake oil and that hopefully Um, hi, I'm bob from snake oil record I'm totally gonna make music Explode on the scene. Um, yeah, I don't know. I would have to feel comfortable with it But I feel like there's absolute value for some people out there Um, that you know for someone else to take a cut because they're good at that aspect and you are not But then again, there are also people out there that do not mind doing the whole thing They got it nailed and they're gonna, you know reap maximum rewards as a resort to that I look at book publishing is similar to this and Even the most successful independent artists there like Hugh Howie or someone Eventually take a publishing deal. No, I think publishing is a little more artist friendly sometimes the music but Uh, there there comes a point where everybody can see that benefit if they get big enough like, yeah Yeah, all right. Let's move on to the next one. Sarah. Oh This is gotta be my favorite part because I want to know what dale and jason use for gear these days Gear is cheaper. There's a lot more of it a lot more accessible. So What what who wants to go first jason? Let's start with you. Okay. Uh, I can go for sure my, uh My gear setup hasn't really changed a whole lot in that however many years because so much of it has been As they say in the box, uh in my mac pro. I think my mac pro is like 2009 I mean, it's it's an old machine at this point 2008 2009. I decked it out You know maxed out the network didn't see that when you bought your mac pro Yes, actually I posted a blog post. Yeah, I received that mac pro Um, and you know what it's still going strong. I think I think probably whenever I start actively working on the next album I'll probably have to upgrade because it's it's getting a little long on the tooth at this point But it was well, it was good enough to get me through fever dreamer and I'm happy about that Um, I think the thing that's changed over the last couple of years There's a piece of hardware that uh, if if you follow me on twit You're probably sick of hearing me talk about but it's called the spire studio that I absolutely Love it's this little like Eight track in a box digital eight track in a box It's by the folks at isotope and it's just a tiny compact thing with a battery that you can basically power on And do overdubs. It's basically I use it for prototyping songs So if I have an idea in my head and I'm like, oh, I wonder what this actually sounds like I'll sit down pull out my guitar throw that on do a layer Then just start layering and in 15 minutes I've got I've taken what I had in here in my head and I've got something that I can actually listen to and go That's an idea that I want to spend more time on later. So that's been like a godsend I absolutely love that thing. Some people think think that it's expensive I think it's like 300 bucks But it is amazing if you use it the way it's intended and the only other thing that's that's really changed in my setup You know, I'm using pro tools to produce music Is there's a company called universal audio and they have hardware Hardware dsp that you can you can plug into your computer and then they have a whole lineup of plugins that are basically their own modeled versions of classic studio hardware So all of these compressors and everything that would cost you thousands of dollars to get And everybody, you know, there are tons of plug-in makers that are actually doing this I just find that the uad ones are super like they're really well done And because they rely on the dsp and the breakout hardware that you plug into your your mac It doesn't steal any of the resources from your computer. So it kind of frees your computer up Especially when your computer is as old as mine for other things and uh, I just get really great sound out of them I've gotten really accustomed to using them Uh, I love it. I keep things pretty simple outside of that. It's just my instruments, you know A couple of guitars a couple of basses and my voice And what kind of microphone do you use for that for music? Actually the microphone I use happens to be the microphone that I'm I mean not this same one But the the brand the hyal pr 40 is a pr 40 for music too See, I I know a lot of people who love the pr 40 for voice But then when it comes to recording song, maybe they like a different kind of mic I'm not I'm not saying that it's the best microphone in the world for things like recording guitar You know like acoustic guitar or whatever. I definitely use it on my voice I I do use it to record guitar, uh, you know a lot of the stuff though that I do is in the box It's you know an electric guitar plugged into Um, you know some sort of a preamp that goes direct directly into the computer And I do guitar amp modeling inside the computer a lot of times So using the mic to do analog recordings of things It's maybe not as as much used for that but I use it on tambourine shakers I use it on anything that I need to that's physical That's an analog audio source and I I don't know I've used it for a long time So I guess I'm just used to using it for those things and I can get good sound out of it Dale, what about you? Um, I'm using a mac mini that I think's from 2012 Nice But similar to Jason I am using Pro Tools In conjunction with Reason I'm using Reason essentially for all my instruments. I use it as my sampler Um, I kind of model that out off of like the hardware samples samplers. I used to use I kind of have like modeled inside of Reason in some of their instruments Um, I'm using uh at TLM 103 For my microphone. Um, that's a really big voice over microphone for like tv Um, I had been using it, you know, I had a previous job when I was actually recording voiceovers And just fell in love with it. It just sounded great on me. I was like, all right This this is my microphone for recording Jason. I imagine that's why you got to use the pr 40 because you were using it for podcasting, right? So that's exactly it. Yeah, I used you had with the microphone that I had. Yeah This I hate the Neumann TLM 103 that looks like a pretty sweet mic. I have to say Yeah, yeah, I love it Yeah, I use Pro Tools essentially as a sequencer along with Reason And then once I've got like my beats kind of like the way I like them I'll track them back into Reason just like do all my editing and recording and in Pro Tools I mean, sorry back back into Pro Tools rather Yeah, Reason's a powerhouse. Uh, I I use that for quite a long time I don't know why I fell I fell out of the habit of that but Reason's amazing Like there's so many tools within that software. I love it What about headphones? What about headphones? I think the headphones that I'm using right now hi-fi man What's that you have special headphones for listening to your own music back? I well, I have I definitely have studio headphones because Okay, so I've got Mackie hra24. Those are my studio monitors Those are my like my in studio loud monitors that I mix on and I kind of mix as I go So I don't necessarily have like all right. Here's all my rough, you know lay Tracks all laid out. It's time for the mixing Session or whatever I mix as I write over the course of months or years or however long it takes me So and much of that is done in headphones because it's late at night because I just I enjoy getting into the mood of you know a nice dark room Maybe a little soft like red light in the corner and throwing on some really nice headphones and doing it all in headphones So the the headphones that I use are hi-fi man's their planner Their their planner magnetic headphones. I kept suddenly blanking on the actual Label of them. I can put it in the show notes afterwards But you know, they're like three four hundred dollar headphones that I just really enjoy the sound of Like if you're going to be listening through headphones to your own music and using this for hours on end You want it to sound good. You don't want it to be uncomfortable and uh, I just I really have enjoyed those headphones And they were primarily what I used on on the last album Yeah, for me monitor wise. I'm using the yamaha with the hsn 50s. I think they are um, they're like uh, the yamaha and s10 sort of like um A knock-offs, but they're powered. Um, and I love you. I love the way those sounds And I think I'm I'm we're I'm using a pair of like a hundred dollar audio technica It's like not too dissimilar to what you're wearing or jason Um, and yeah, I I guess I I've been using them so long I'm just accustomed to the way they sound even though they're not the greatest So they they work for me in that respect Never feel like you're missing anything in the audio profile. Well, you know, I picked up a couple of uh Headphone pairs that were supposed to be really like audio filie and like I just didn't like the way They they they didn't I don't know. I wasn't getting what I wanted out of them You know, they just didn't sound right for me. Um, but I but I should try like something upwards of like a three or four hundred dollar pair which I haven't It really depends on what you're using the headphones for right like, um to be honest the so the hi-fi Hi-fi man h e 400 i those are the headphones that I that I'm using at home right now And they're really great for mixing because they're comfortable because to my ears like they're they're inspiring to me because they They sound the way I want them to but they're really bad for tracking because they're an open ear design, right? So if I'm wearing these and I'm recording vocals All the music that's being mixed into my headphones is also coming out of the back of the headphones right into the microphone And let's just say that's that's probably pretty frowned upon when you're talking about recording music because that adds extra noise Sometimes you can do some really interesting things with that but um that adds extra noise so they're probably not good for tracking but My main point there is like use headphones different headphones for different things You might have a pair of really crappy headphones But they seal really well and they make great tracking headphones because it doesn't need to sound amazing You just have to be able to hear what you're singing over in that example And make sure that that sound doesn't leak back into the microphone use your great Headphones for for the mixing process or whatever however you want to do it Also as far as like the mixing process, it's also a good idea to listen to your stuff on crappy speakers or headphones to see how it will sound on those things Your website in i.e with the resolution turned way down Run it through the real player I always have a zoom around Like 10 years ago No, that's a great tip like you want to you want to not only use different headphones for different things But it sounds like you want to listen to your music back on different playback scenarios It might be a good way of putting it. Absolutely throw it in the car You know listen to it in the car listen to it I mean we joke about listening to it through through a laptop speaker, but so many people that's how they listen to music You know, it's it's a very casual listening experience let's say but if you as a musician kind of uh Approximate and average out You know the ideas that you get from you know the educational listening experience of listening to it on your studio speakers Which are amazing versus your your stereo speakers in the living room Which are hyped on the low end to your car stereo speakers Which are very used to because you listen to it every day to your laptop speakers Which are super crappy But you know reflect what a lot of people hear if you actually use all those things take notes And then kind of approximate between them you can end up with a pretty great sound It's sometimes takes a while I am really quick Sorry, I used to work at a studio that actually built a van room in the studio like there was a room Like a van but speakers like a approximated like a van so you could well go in that room and listen to your mix That's awesome. Was it in a conoline simulated? I think it was like a team style. Yeah, yeah Well, and it makes me wonder if you could make us an album that that is designed to sound entirely different in a car Than it is on a laptop than it is somewhere else That's like that's a good thought. Yeah, I'm curious about that like how that would because every listening environment every Speaker that you listen to they're all different. They all have different characteristics So they're all going to pull something different out. Yeah, so even if you did that That would work on the select few things that you tested it on You never know what you get on the rest of them and that's where the mastering process really comes into play Right like in a in a true mastering process your music goes to a mastering engineer in a studio that is built you know with sound dampening and diffraction and very accurate speakers and and you know Analysis hardware that can allow them to say given what this music is This is as true as this music can sound on the best possible speakers And if you and they they understand their room so well that if they can get it within that range where they Where they know instinctively this is going to sound good It's probably going to translate pretty well to the majority of speakers that it ends up getting played on Yeah, otherwise you're in a yanny laurel situation. Yes I don't know that's that's no one needs that. Yeah, I don't know Last last thing before we move on from this topic I know there's probably a lot of budding musicians out there who are eating up all of this This recommendations for gear and recording situations. What do y'all have to say about The situation in which you record do you need to have a lot of baffling? You know put a sheet over your head like how do you feel about that aspect of it? uh I'll go first. Um, I My recording situation is the the room that I recorded this last album on is in our new house, right? And we moved here and then I think I started recording the tracks for fever dreamer Here, you know in over the last three years the room that I use is so super not ideal It's not an enclosed room. It's connected with this very big portal into the kitchen It's this what big wide open space. I had a couple of you know, um Sound panels that I pulled from my my old house into the new place But no matter how I sliced it like I could I could treat three of the walls But the fourth wall just wasn't there and it's hardwood floors And so, you know echoing through there I mean, I think ultimately as as an independent musician, obviously you you just work as best as you can to to treat the sound Given what you have a lot of people will just take a a comforter, you know A down comforter and hang it on the wall right behind the microphone So that there isn't a reflection of sound into the microphone Um, or maybe you know get under get under the desk and surround yourself with pillows and and record down there I mean you can play around with it Every every weird situation that you do like that is going to have its own kind of sound fingerprint to it But you do what you can like my room is is super echoey But in some ways like I you know, I have hardware and and some wall treatment That gets me close enough and I don't know if it's perfect, but it's but it's close enough There's a lot of ways that you can treat that stuff though and you can do it very diy if you want You could you could build them yourself out of out of uh, you know, what is it insulation and a couple of boards? I mean, it's really not that difficult if you got a lot of books the bookshelf sometimes sure Yeah, a nice a nice size closet. I'll do it too in a situation That's what I did at a previous apartment I had a sort of a walk through closet from one room to another and I just like took half of it It made it a vocal booth like putting down like, uh, What a kind of blankets like kind of like on the side, you know, it's kind of dead in a little bit But now in my new place like I just like kind of close to mic myself And I don't have any treatment at all and I just realized like I just rely on my mixing skills to to get it the way I like and I kind of like that sort of like I usually add a ton of reverb anyway, so That's helping you That's funny. Yeah, I mean mics are getting good enough now that if you can afford something even, you know Ohio PR 40 it'll cost you a few hundred dollars, but it's not crazy It's not thousands of dollars and those are those will cut out a lot of the need to to worry about that Although, yeah, the old the old put in the quilts over your head in the closet I mean, I know a lot of podcasters do that too, so That's the hooks coming out Let's uh, let's get into our final uh discussion topic This one was voted on by the patrons at the advisor level Uh, and it is how has technology changed your relationship with music over the last 10 years Both as a producer and as a consumer And Dale, let's start with you like the how how how is technology? We've been talking about all this gear We've been talking about all these approaches and distribution channels But how has that changed your relationship with music if it if it has well, I mean I guess it's the way it's affected I guess a lot of people even yourself as well like I used to buy Albums like I used to go to the store buy albums go online amazon itunes buy an entire album Now I am A member of google's all access streaming service I haven't bought an album. Well, that's not sure I did buy an album the other day But there was something that was super rare from like the 70s that like no one's heard of so I couldn't get it anywhere else But but like I haven't bought an album quite crap. I just bought one But uh, but yeah, and uh, so so I you know, I come from I'm surrounded by vinyl here You know and I have like, you know, I used to love artwork and all that stuff And so I It's it's it's not as important in releases these days now. I mean people, you know, have album covers, you know, but like it's not It it doesn't lend to like the character of the project as much as it used to I don't think Um, but and but on the other hand, it's made my listening Being able to listen to whatever I want just so convenient, you know And I get in my car and I tell my phone what I want to listen to and and I'm off, you know, it's like Hey, that's that's something that tom and I kind of talk about because tom is he likes to own his music I mean, I know streaming works for you as well But you have that feeling of like no that actually makes me feel better where I'm like, I don't even want it Where am I gonna put it? You know, so it why do you think that some people still hold on to the I want it to be a tangible thing that I can find locally On my, you know, whatever device it is rather than someone like me who's like, I'm leasing the music Well, for one reason it still comes and goes right? So like you get all these rights issues with artists and labels or whatever Like the album that you were listening to yesterday isn't there today or like half of the songs are missing You know and this way you can buy it and upload it yourself and you've got it, you know Yeah, and and there are a lot of situations where it's something that I don't trust will ever be on streaming Maybe it's maybe it's an oddity or some old like digitization of a 78 or something like that So I like to have the mix, but I'll tell you what Sarah I am I am loosening up on that and it's it's funny as I've been preparing for the move. I'm moving into a new house in in little less than a month now Uh, I've been going through my albums I've been going through my cds and my criterion for keeping something has changed drastically just in the last five years Since I moved last Uh anything where I'm like, you know what this is always gonna this this record is always going to be available in streaming The artwork isn't that great. I'm gonna get rid of it cds is even easier Like if I think I can find this digitally I probably don't need that cd unless it's super rare So I've gotten rid of almost all of the cds I owned and the records I've I cut my record collection in half Because so much of it I was like, oh, but you know what like this this album This cover is in really crappy shape. It doesn't even look nice and I can easily find this music So the prevalence of popular music has meant that it's only the niche stuff only the stuff that I'm not confident You know the the temple kazoo orchestra. I want to have that album, right? Um, but we all yeah Well, I do so Another thing that I've found with streaming and this is just this is definitely as a consumer because I don't produce music at all Is because I have access to You know 10 new albums a week type thing I tend to listen to stuff that I really like Much less because there's just so much of it Uh, you know, I could listen to an album front to back and be like this was great And I kind of forget about it because of the way that you know, a lot of the stuff is set up where they want to You know push new music towards you As a music Producer creator, I would assume that that would be really frustrating Or could be Dale Um, it's so frustrating neither one of them can even form And it kind of goes back to our earlier conversation about there just being you know The market is flooded with a lot of people who want to make music But yeah, I do I do find that it has changed my listening habits even though I still like what I like I don't listen to the same stuff over and over Because I almost feel like and that complicates the standard to the streaming the streaming payment model, right? Yeah, well, I mean, I mean that's that's my fault then right? I mean that I that if you're not listening to what I did, you know over and over I didn't do a good job by producing the song Well, I mean, I don't know. I think if I had your cd and I loved it and it was in my car I'd listen to it over and over Because I tend to do that But is that a lack of options in other words when you're in your car You're like well, I can only listen to the radio or the cds I brought with me Exactly. I think yeah, I think the mentality was way different Back, you know in the 90s when we had a single cd player in our car And we're heading to our car because we got a 20 minute drive and we grab that cd and bring it in there And then it gets left in there for five days and we forget to bring anything else So, you know, we just become experts on that album for five days like that doesn't happen anymore The the unlimited choice that we have from streaming gives us the opposite problem Gives us the opposite challenge of well, what do I even want to listen to like now? You know so much of my my music listening is very passive Like it's not something that I sit down and listen to in a focused sense anymore I'm just as happy nowadays to say hey g google You know play music and just listen to whatever it happens to give me because you know Google kind of analyzes what you listen to and it matches it with your voice and then it says Well, here's a playlist we think you might like and a lot of times, you know, it sucks But a lot of times it's fine and it's good enough and I didn't have an idea of what I actually wanted to listen to Anyways, so great. I'll go for that. Um, so I just think our our the technology has allowed us To form different habits around how we enjoy music We don't and maybe I'm speaking only for myself But we don't obsess about one particular thing even the most amazing album that comes out now I will still concede that it's an amazing album and I will still probably only listen to it a couple of times And then forget about it for a couple of months and then go back to it again You know what I mean? It's just the way it is now Well, it's it's not just you but like I mean my own personal experience like there is a little brother album separate but equal drama free edition I've had that I've listened to that not stopped in my car. I've got a ton of options But I just love that album so much that I discovered it like a month ago I still rock it all the time because it just sounds so great in my car I'll do it too, right like if you've got the perfect environment for that type of album then that that helps as well Like, you know what? It's a sunny day. I'm bumping this This is perfect Looking looking at my to kind of address the question of you know, how our relationship changed with music 10 years ago To now like when I look at at my music habits 10 years ago Like I was a collector. I was an owner of music I loved going into music stores and sampling at the time I think it was dj and so, you know There was also that going in there and like grabbing a stack of records and sitting down at a turntable and dropping the needle On random points like that whole like talking about it. I'm getting a little goosebumps because it was it was such a I don't know. It was such an Exploration and you really never knew what you were going to come up It come out of that experience with it was a journey It was a destination where you walked down the street to into the store And you knew that you were going to spend the next hour Like going down this rabbit hole and hopefully at the other end you were going to emerge with this very small but selective Um, you know sampling of music that you worked for and now you're going to obsess over and until the next obsession comes along Like I don't do that anymore. I miss it But there there is no like no amount of like unlimited catalog and a streaming service Gives me that feeling. It's just it's a very passive thing now and I realize it's just what the technology allows us to do On one hand, it's amazing that we have access to unlimited amounts of music 20 years ago me would have killed for this and actually dreamed about the day the day of having it But there's a little bit of magic lost Right. No, no, no, definitely don't don't look at the books Yeah, he has not been convicted. Don't look too deeply into that one. Um, you know, I miss that. That's all I'm saying Yeah, yeah, no, I get you because uh, I the exception that proves the rule for me Most recently was logics, uh, bobby's tarantino 2 where Justin robert young Messaged me because they had a rick and morty track at the beginning of the album, uh, or he did and and and and that made me go Well, let me investigate this album and then I started listening to the album and that was An old-fashioned feeling of a friend recommending an album listening to the album and liking it and playing it a few times And then adding it into my playlist Most of the time if I add something into my playlist It's I read about the artist on like the bbc and one of their weekend music profiles Or I heard about it on a television show or or even a commercial and you're like, oh, who's that and I look I'm up that way Probably the biggest source of music for me is is eileen my wife playing stuff in the house and me going Oh, I like that one, uh, but you know Yeah, I guess that's uh Ariana grande for example. Yeah, no tears left to cry that girl her thing Uh, well, I you know what I guess that's uh gonna bring us to an end So thank you all for being with us Thank you guys a lot of fun. Yeah Really appreciate it. Thanks for thanking of me. Yeah Um, let's talk about where folks can keep up with all your music and other work. Jason will start with you Uh, well if you want to find my music just go to my site. It's yellow gold music dot com You'll find, um, you know, there's there's a little music tab there with Three albums that I've released in any sort of a public sense and then fever dreamers kind of the the album that released earlier this year Um, and I don't know. You can follow me on twitter twitter.com slash jason howell or at jason howell I don't know. I decided to give you the full url. You already know that Uh, and then of course I do tech podcast for twit twit dot tv. I'm there talking technology Pretty much every day of the week Yes, of course. It was so great to see you again. Yeah, great to see you too Dale chase what's been going on with you and how can people keep up with all your fine work? Um, yeah, I've just been working on some new music I'm finally getting back into writing some things that I really like you can catch all my stuff on d chase dot bandcamp dot com Um, like type def love plus plus Um, am I super political? Where's the bottom? Um And you can also catch me on twitter at dale o chase Excellent folks if you'd like more of these round table shows if you like the feel of us Just letting loose and chatting like this join in on the fun or up your pledge And get some of our cool perks like good day internet exclusive columns and more at patreon.com slash d t n s If you want to send us feedback, we would love it our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're also live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern. That's 20 30 utc Find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live back tomorrow with justin robert young talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frog pants dot com The best diamond club tag ever It just wouldn't play I kept hitting it. I'm like come on. Uh, I'm like I can do it Heard it. Oh, I don't know hundreds of times Oh, sorry, I cut out a couple times guys my logitech. I use this uh logitech gaming software and it wasn't the camera, but it was My software kept just like it was not playing nice with hangouts. So Hopefully I didn't It was gracefully done sarah. Well, I'm glad to hear that Good show. Yeah, thank you. That was a lot of fun. This was awesome. Yeah, that was great. Um, What do you think of the great gig in the cloud? Sounds so fatal does kind of but I like it Where did that the where did that reference originate? gig in the sky gig in the sky isn't that uh, that might be um Um, why am I suddenly blanking the the band the Grateful Dead? Isn't that Grateful Dead? Oh, is it? Or Pink Floyd it's Grateful Dead or Pink Floyd gig in the sky Uh, let's just Pink Floyd Pink Floyd great gig in the sky it itself is a song lyric by the way Which one's pink? also Great gig in the cloud then sure sure. Yeah, I like that. All right. Love it Love it copy Cool. Well, yeah, uh, I know roger probably told you this already But we just kind of sit around and chill on the stream while we publish after the show So come and go as you please if you want to hang around you're more than welcome to if you need to get going That's great. No problem. It's very casual. I would love. Yeah, I would love to hang out. Unfortunately I have to go pick up my kids from school Unfortunately, oh kids. They'll be fine. Sadly. I'm a dad, you know I would just make them walk home, but they're five and eight and that would somebody I'll take them All right, thanks Jason. Thank you guys. This was so much fun. I really appreciate it Good to see you guys. We'll talk to you soon. Okay. Bye I hope his kids are fine Yeah, just ask a nice stranger To give you a ride. It's all town. It'll be good Who is the most fit day? Who's the most famous person you've ever met because of your music? Like, oh my god This is like because of my music Like like some relation like you either you were at an event because of your music like roger chang Uh, I don't think I've met anyone because of my music I mean as I was like coming up and working in studios and and that sort of thing. I met some some famous people Um, like I actually smoked a blunt with buster rimes once Oh, all right. That would be fun That's yeah. Yeah. Um, of course, like I don't remember the conversation really. Uh, I mean His stuff is really good Of course kids. He's talking about tobacco. Oh, I didn't realize we were still on the air. Yeah I'm sorry No, don't don't don't it's like on california now. So only out of the age though Sorry, I told you I told you I didn't realize we were still on there. Um No, otherwise, um, no, I don't think I've I'm trying to remember I don't think I've really met anyone famous because of my music like actually like My recordings like all just like through like all my like engineering work is where I've met people Yeah, I'm like, um, I mean the buster rimes story is a pretty good one Well, the one that I will the one that blew my mind the most though I'm probably not familiar. You might not be familiar, but this is engineer bob power Who worked on a lot of the um like early tripod quest stuff Um, uh, who else? Um, michelle and digga shallow Um The roots, uh, there's a few albums And so like I knew who he was at this point in time and I was like, um, just like a general assistant in the studio Like stocking the tape closet at least we still had tape. That's how long ago this was and uh And uh, I kind of catch him coming out of the room. He's like going to the bathroom or something and uh Or maybe he was coming back from from the bathroom and uh, I I because I could hear what they were doing through the closet You know, he was working with michelle and digga shallow and I could hear I was like, wow What you guys are doing? I sent something along the lines of like, you know What she was working on just sounded amazing and he said that yeah, it kind of reminds me of um Oh that myles davis album not not live evil the other one and I'm like, oh, bitch is brew and he's like, yeah And I'm you started talking about like myles davis and I'm like, I can't believe I'm having a conversation While they was about power right now The the modern day version of that story what starts with I was cleaning out the company drop box On my laptop and he walked I don't know. I don't know how that works now. There's no tape closet That's amazing though, I the It makes you like I would think if I were in your shoes like is he trying to trick me about my knowledge Like how does he not remember but then like I've been on the other end of that conversation where it's like Yeah, this guy thinks I'm an idiot because you know, I can't remember the name of this tech product or whatever in my case Uh, because you know, sometimes your brain just fails you Um, yeah By the way, I did I kept all my myles davis records when I went through and got rid of half my my album Huge fan. Good man. I kept almost all my jazz. I don't think I got rid of any Jazz unless it was just in real bad shape got rid of a lot of my vocalist stuff like sinatra and things I kept some of it, but I uh, I used to have a sinatra 78 around but that wasn't pretty bad shape I have I have a 78. I have a few 78s. I have a bin Crosby 78 too. Nice I even have over here on the shelf. I have an Edison flat not a cylinder Um, let me go to my magical bookcase One of these days I'll pull out a copy of the Magna Carta. It's an Edison Record look how thick that thing. Wow Wow cylinder. Yeah That's amazing. I don't remember. It's uh, it's a classical. It's a bach String quartet air. Wow, and then tremeri from schumann on the back That's awesome. That's great audio That's awesome I keep that wedged in between a couple books over there so that it doesn't get crack. Actually, what am I talking about? I met, um What's his name? Miles Davis bitches Whitey cracker I I I performed with him at a gig at yahoo of several years ago. Oh, wow. Yeah And uh, he's a celebrity of my book for sure. Oh, yeah for sure I think I've seen him In in the east bay once or something Uh Who's the most famous person you met roger? Uh through my music no one But in terms of like like just work career work, um So I did all those like celebrity house calls. So it was like ed mcman. Um Sheila e What's her name? She was a nine to five Holly parton lily tomlin lily tomlin Uh, I've met, um when I was doing that bit for iosc. I met, uh Crap, um, it's a guy from black flag Henry rollins. Henry rollins. I met him. He was pretty cool. He was actually really nice guy And I had uh, I had him sign something for patrick because I know patrick is like a big fan Yeah, and then uh Oh, yeah, patrick normie likes black flag That makes sense Never, I know it's totally just totally had a character for it um Then I met, uh elicia uh, uh felicia day through tom and uh, veronica Uh, I've met um levar burton Hmm Then uh garret wang through veronica And veronica, there's a lot of them. I think they're all star trek people And that's the conference circuit I I I remember the garret wanga. Was I there? Was that? It's like, oh, I got sorry I didn't mean to stop you so hard. I was like, no, you can't walk by. You're gonna be excited That was a good time And then uh, I met um, I didn't solely meet but I got stared at with uh, very uh, glowering eyes by, um Man, I wish I'm really bad with names when you put me on the spot hot tub time machine rob cordy hmm You got stared at by rob cordy. So you didn't meet him. No okay, uh And I almost ran into um the guy from castle Nathan fillion Like I was walking on the streets and this is starting to sound like me When I talk about the famous people who've stepped on my feet, but I've never met I had a fat joe give me a dirty look They give you a dirty look fat joe. Yeah. Oh Oh, you know, I I literally ran physically ran into um Uh, uh, what's that Jeremy? Ron Jeremy I If he was not not even not even just just move on I physically ran into Ron Jeremy's all you need to say that story just told itself Uh, and if forever will be um, uh, remembered by the internet, but I don't know it's Do you find your music a really good social outreach? For for you in general like, you know, because you play gigs or because you're going to events You're meeting people or like you would have not otherwise met Oh, absolutely. Um Yeah, also through like my collaborating which I I forgot to touch on Um, that was how I connected with uh dual core and you guys you remember those guys Um, you know, I was working on my first album and uh, I had I knew them through their relationship with hack five But I didn't actually I knew of them, but I didn't really know them Um, but I had completed half a song And I was like, oh, you know who like oh 80 would sound great on this And I just sent him like the half of saw half the song like hey, you want to get down on this And he was with it and um, he's rocked it and then met him for the first time Um at a show that we booked together in new york And like men for the first time that night perform the song together with him and like just killed it That's amazing. And we were like fast friends ever since That's great Well, folks, uh, we're gonna wrap up the video here. Um, what we're gonna say amos I was gonna I was just gonna say that uh, we had an 80 on on our podcast and he Basically his whole social channel is reddit Going through and finding new groups and spreading his like all the all the music and everything else He loves he loves the reddit Nice Reddit's got a little of everything for everyone If you can think of it, there's a subreddit All right, uh, like I said, uh, wrapping up the video. Thanks everybody for watching Audio people stick around we're still gonna have more to come