 We're trying to do a hybrid. People have wanted us to have new persons meetings so we could come. And also, if people want to attend via Zoom, we tried it two weeks ago, trying to work the bugs. We're still trying to work the bugs out. So we have one person on Zoom who's being checking it out to see how the volume, how they can follow along, OK? OK, great. So first on the agenda is to approve the agenda. For anything that needs to be amended, you're padded to the agenda tonight? Here and on, just need a motion to accept the agenda. OK, all in favor? All right. First up, we have Alex. Alex is looking for some permission for a snowmobile. Yep. Alex, please do it. Rambler's just looking to get permissions for the Class 4 roads, all the sections that are on file from last year. Everything's the same, nothing's changed, just for the use for the upcoming season. You're asking the Class 3 road, do you use a little bit of it? A little bit, it's here and there, yeah. I just want to make sure she puts that in minutes. Yeah, I guess there are short sections, mostly crossings, but there is a section of Finley Bridge we use over the interstate on Christian Hill. We use that a little bit there, too. Other than that, I think that's it. Hooper Hollow, yeah. Same sections we've been using for years. And part of Finley Bridge, because we're part of my house, they're very nice. Put up signage. Yep, I live in a house with a blue house, the blue roof. Yeah. Yeah, that's where it goes up into the field there. Did you and Ken from the ATV, you guys were going to look at that little piece on, isn't it Hooper Hollow? By where it came down from the property that Jack Cowdrey owns, you guys were going to look at the water coming off that road, did you guys have a chance to do that? And I think the biggest issue there is that the riprap on that whole side of the road is higher than the road. So I don't think it's anything really coming out of that section of trail. If you go up there and look at the riprap that's done on that whole, basically from the intersection of Camp Rook, all the way down, it sticks up four inches out of the higher than the road. Because we're looking at the side of Jack Cowdrey because Chris and I did go look at it. And you could see the water coming down that little piece where Jack Cowdrey, do you know what I mean? Where he drove up, you're going down a new car, it was on the left. So we did go and look at it. And so we were just curious. Yeah, I haven't really done anything with it. I drove through there and we actually were up there not too long ago. And I kind of looked at the whole thing. And anything that comes down out of that should go into that uphill side of the ditch and then through a culvert underneath. But there's no real culvert under that curb cut. And then the whole section, if you go up through there and look at that riprap job, it's all higher than the road bed, which. What's the look at? Yeah, I mean, normally they're not too picky, but that axis piece, it's all ledgerate on that axis piece, so there's no way to ditch it. Well, one side just dropped off the bank. The other side, it's ledged, so you can't ditch it. But when you get through the freezing thought cycles, the water literally comes right down that and then it comes right across, super hollow. So then it makes it icy right in the bottom of that bowl there. I don't know, we just thought maybe at some point, installing a water bar or something like that might slow some of it down. It gets so much truck and wheeler traffic. That's the biggest thing. So much many vehicles go through there. Because we've had some complaints from super hollow residents in the past on it being icy right in the bottom there. I think we kind of hear that, but we were just, yeah. So that's fine. We'll take, Chris and I can take a little look at it too in the spring, but if you're just up there, we're going to be doing a little bit more trail work here and there and signing and all that here pretty soon. So we'll have a little bit more to look at it. I don't know. Might be something we can hand shovel a little bit of attention. In the maps that we have, Alex, are all up to date. You said there wasn't any changes. So in the maps that we got last year, are all up to date on now. The only, and I have to talk with Jordan a little bit, Jordan Garrow, about the property, right, by Christian Hillbridge Crossing. He was planning on pasturing and leaving some fencing up. We're trying to come up with a workaround where we go out further behind his place or what. But he said that shouldn't be a problem. Certainly never. My couple of years, I've never had a complaint about ever, about snowmobiling or anything. Not usually. Not usually. Every once in a while, I'll get a call that somebody, whether the groom or dragon will snow out through the road or something like that. Yeah. Usually we can't shovel it off as soon as we do. Yeah. Do it, but every now and then they don't. Every now and then. Sometimes you don't see it. Yeah. Anybody, anything else from the board? Or just need a motion to allow the White River Valley Rambler's permission for the trails for this winter? So moved. Sorry. Okay, all in favor? Aye. Aye. All right. Anything else, Alex? You all set? Good. That's it. Alex, next year can we get you guys to come back through burgers and fries at the Ford Festival? Maybe. We'll see. All right. I tell you, it's hard to get anybody to do anything with it, but the club, you know, we do trail days. We actually had more people active this year than we've had in a long time. You know, a couple of years ago, we did a bridge re-decking up off Charlie Wilson Road and warned it for weeks and weeks and weeks. Three of us showed up and it just, you know. But we did just have a trail maintenance day down near Rue 100 and Stockbridge and we had five people show up, which is sadly a record number for the last bunch of years. But hopefully we're kind of pulling some young kids in. My kids are going to slowly getting all I'm told to show up and do some work on some stuff. Couple of the other guys have some kids as well that are kind of getting up into that age where they want to do some work. So we're trying. We're trying. Doug's retired now. He can get himself a snowmobile. What's that? I said Doug's retired now. He can get himself a snowmobile. Oh yeah. We can use another groomer operator to walk. I'm trying to stay out in the snow. All right, thanks Alex. Thank you. All right, then we have next, we have public comments. So if there's anything that's not on the agenda this evening that anybody would like to bring up. And I know Rick that's not on the agenda. So. No, I'm just saying one of the other questions that anybody has. Okay. But we should look to the one of Doug Goldman we should talk about that. Cause some stuff has come up out that I had a conversation today about. I mean, obviously you've had the letters about that we've sent that I've sent and that Derek is certainly aware of. And then I gave you the report that had gone today and our enforcement agent Dan Mason. Nice guy. And that's in your packet. And then the class four road committee went to look at the road bed on Saturday. And we'll say right out of the gate, made a mistake. I thought that this road was a class four road and Carl Russell, I bless him who said, Teresa, it's and I brought the map. It's actually a class three. And the state actually has a category for it. And we have two roads in Bethel that are like, is their class three but they're not up to standard. So the state considers them functionally class four roads. But I had no idea that and so that's my mistake. But the class four road committee did go and meet and look at the road bed cell on Saturday. And I talked to Carl today and he said, they're meeting on November 3rd to talk about what they had and they'll have a report for the select board on November 8th. In the meantime, I wrote today to Dan Mason who's the enforcement officer for A&R and said, is there somebody at A&R who can help who can come down and talk to us about the proper way to get to deal with water runoff so that we're not violating any of the water quality standards. It's my recommendation that we go up as soon as Allen can and fill in any of the water bars or gullies that were made and smooth them out. And until we have somebody from A&R, I also wrote to Two Rivers tonight and to get us help to say, okay, look, how can we properly deal with a runoff so that we're not forcing our stormwater runoff onto somebody's private property which may cause them damage in which case leads us open for problems down the road. So I think that we need to go in and put the road back to the condition it was before because work was done on that road without a permit to work in the right way and without a permit to work in the right way. And after we sent letters, work was continued to be done. So at least, yes, I realized that the water would stay in the road which is not ideal but it currently goes down the road into an existing culvert but I think we need proper guidance from A&R and Two Rivers to come in and say, look, what are you gonna do to this road? We need to put some money into it. We have class four money that we've set aside or in this case, class three, money that we have to do some maintenance but I think that we need professional guidance A&R, Two Rivers to come in and say, look, here's the best way to deal with this. But I think that in the meantime, I think the select board needs to authorize the, us to put the road back to the way it was prior to the condition prior to work done without permit to work in the right way. And then it gives us the winter to make a plan at least to try to get A&R, Two Rivers to come in and say in the spring, if there's some work that needs to be done, then at least we have some time to make a plan on how to properly deal with runoff from that road so that we're not diverting it and causing damage from roads. It's a tough road because there's stone walls, so it's hard. You don't necessarily want to break through a stone wall to divert water. So it was kind of trying to figure it out. This road goes to a home in Rochester. So it's not like it, but Rochester goes to a real public road. So it's not like this is a road we would use during high reading hour or something else to get out. That's so- What is the road we mainly use for now? And it's great news. I think it gives access to the homeowner. I think is it Sedgwick? Is that the right name? Sedgwick in Rochester. And it allows Derrick and Beverly access to their fields. And so do you have cows or corn? Hey, what you got? Hey, you got a factory called. Mostly a hay field. Yeah. And when we're talking water bears, I mean, how many water bears are in the road that were installed that shouldn't be? Or maybe talking like one or two, or is this a thousand or longer? Alex, do you know? Four, five. And then we'd have to go back and look. That's very important to gravel and grade. It wouldn't take a lot. It's a small amount, a small amount of gravel filled. Yeah. We were gonna do it on Thursday, but I had thought we were gonna be able to just put gravel in them. And then it was, but it was still gonna cause runoff on the property. So it wasn't the solution that we needed. I thought it was going to work to help slow down any water, kind of filter it. Sometimes we use that situation elsewhere and it's not gonna work. So it wouldn't be a ton of material for us, but there's the material at the road, so great. When was the last time that road was ever like really maintained by? I can't remember it in the last four, almost 40 years or so. You know, a grader put out on it or anything like that. 40? Or almost 40 years. I don't wanna say, I've wondered. So we could bring in a little bit of material and deal with it and... Cause usually the functions stop at the last house on the hill there. Which is also Derek's experience. Yeah, that's usually where everything comes from. Sunny. The road is actually used quite a little bit. It goes out to Rochester, four corners. It's where you can go up over the hill to Mount Cushman and into Rochester. To the left, to the Charlie Wilson Road. To the right, you go down to School Street Extension. The road, once you get past the Sedwick Place, the Sedwick Camping, that's just over the line in Rochester, the road gets very, it's very bad. You can get over there with a four-wheel drive Jeep or something like that, but you can't get over it with a pleasure car or even a regular-sized four-wheel drive truck. Is worse than our section? Pardon me? Worse than our section? Much worse. So basically it gives Mr. Sedwick access to his property. That's right. But that's about it. That's the only access I've ever known he's had. Yeah. So just out of curiosity, does he have an easement from you or just over the town? No, it's just the last three roads. I know you two also have an easement. Just the town highway. So yeah, so I, like I said, I emailed Dan Mason, I emailed two rivers and I think that in the meantime, we need to fix the work that was done without a right-of-way permit to work in the right-of-way permission to work in the right-of-way was not granted. And then let's figure out how to deal with it correctly. Has a letter been sent to the landowner that's been installing the... Both, yeah, it was in your packet. It was in your packet last week. Yep. Yes, there was and Derek knows because he had one. I sent the same. Well, I'm just thinking, you know, if we go out and fix it and all of a sudden, well, Dan, there's four new water bars put in there. Yeah, kind of a problem. Yeah, exactly. So I think what would happen is... Should we send him some sort of letter saying... Yes. That, you know, the town heard, the decision has been decided to do this and... Yep. And this is the deal. The work will be done within this amount of time. Anything after that needs a permit or something. Yeah, which is known already, yeah. But you may want to put something on land or that, you know, they go out there and they go out the road again that it may be at their cost to put it back. Well, I think that's it. I think I'll have to send it. You can't have them continue to do it. That's a good idea. I think we need to send a letter to Mr. Sedgwick as well, since if somebody is maintaining the road on Mr. Sedgwick's behalf, then we'll send the letter to both... Well, just easily, you know... Yeah, I'm not just waiting to do it. Fix it. Yeah. But if they continue to do that, then there would be some recourse there once the town could take. And I think we just need to... We're not being unfair by saying you need to go fix it. We're saying... That's a question that I had is, you know, who's nickel, but what you're saying, Chris, is we fix it at our nickel at this point. And if there is further encroachment, we would ask the landowner to... Yeah, well, yeah, I think it gives us the opportunity to say that we have notified the landowner, right? Yeah. And we're not unfairly... Because, well, the landowner is... But if they do it again... Derrick and Beverly phone on both sides of that road, so... It's not the landowner. No, it's not the landowner. And so Derrick and Beverly phone on both sides of the class III road. So, but I think that a letter to Mr. Sedgwick as well as his caretaker, and just let all parties involved just send the blanket letter that the select board talked about it. We've reached out to A&R. We've reached out to two rivers. The class IV road committee, look at the roadbed. We'll have their report on the eighth, but in the meantime, we are again saying there's no work to be done. We're gonna fix it within the next two weeks, bring it back to pre... You know, I'm not gonna say any good standard, but condition prior to work without work in the right-of-way permit. Well, we continue. Well, we continue to investigate and make a plan, a proper plan. And then once that's done, we can inform everybody. Look at this. This is what A&R and everybody has said. And so here's the proper solution. It's a 10. You know, we're the ones who are gonna put money into it, so I only want to do this once, so we don't throw good money after that, as they say. So board, and if they have concerns that there is water drainage that needs to be addressed the way we had it before, just let us know what they are so that we can include those concerns in whatever planning takes place. Yeah. That's not a say, we'll do it your way. I'm just saying. No, no. With planning considerations. Well, with planning considerations, yeah, because they're concerned that the water currently runs, because it's like a riverbed now. I think it's sort of, I mean, the water just goes down the road. I think eventually it hits the midgills and it's that. It doesn't go that far. There's a culvert at the top of the hill before it pitches down to Mitchell's Drive. All right, so if the slide board's good or bad, it's about the consensus. Do we get a motion or do you see the consensus from the board that? Consensus is something. Yeah, I think so. You okay with that? I mean, it's like everybody else on the board. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, yeah, not right road. It's still Gilead. Is it Batwood? That's not Batwood. That's not Gilead at all. Yeah. Right, yeah. Yeah, it's the tail end of Gilead there. Yeah. Well, the road it goes over through Randall, not the road it goes up by Mitchell's. Yeah. Not the one that goes by the clock. No, that's right road. Yeah, so we're still at the end of Gilead. I'm sorry, I should have been clear. I forgot he lives in a fork of two. I should have said that. Okay, sounds like the consensus of the board is to do as described by trees. So we will get working on that. And sure, Teresa will give you some updates so when we'll get the work done. Yeah. I would imagine that any of the drainage work, any of the final drainage work probably wouldn't have until the spring of next year. Yeah, and then, yeah. I'm nervous. Okay, and we'll get all right to Mr. Sedgwick and we'll get input from them as well. And we know there might be logging out there, possibly this winter, if they're gonna log, then that means that somebody's gonna help take care of some issues with that road anyways, which will be nice. We'll make sure of that because they'll be going out on that road. So that could help our problem too, actually, so. All right. All right. So I don't know about Doug, he might have a list. Hold that. No. I knew it. Right, I was, I'm not interested. Still, you're on the development review board now. Yeah, we just elected you. We just like to go on the development review board. You didn't say no. Thank you, Doug. But we don't need it yet. We get your white's permission. She said sign them out. Was there any other public comment, anything that's not on the agenda that anybody would like to bring out? Comment on. Now's the time to do it. Or else? You have to wait two more weeks. Okay, so we'll move on. Now we just need signature for the municipal resolution for the bylaws. So we did this one before and it has to be Trevor's name on here because the Randolph town manager, Randolph has agreed to deal with the money. And I had had you guys sign it thinking you signed first, but actually planning commission had to sign first. So the good news, this is the grant that is for bylaw modernization. There will be no match matching funds required. Two rivers is putting up the match. And this is to help us create housing friendly zoning bylaws to address the housing shortage. And I did put in the one statistic or two statistics I thought were interesting. 14% of households in Bethel pay more than 50% of their income towards housing. And there is also an estimated need of over 4,000 more units by 2030 to meet expected demand in Vermont. So that's just, that's crazy. Seems just so, like so many. So we just need a motion for to approve your signature again. Motion to allow myself to sign. So moved. Second. Okay, moved by Paul, second by Linley, all in favor. That's 50% figure is why I sent the link. About housing for those who are least able to afford it. Yeah, that's Bethel. Yeah, it's bagging. Well, yeah, it's 50, yeah, 14%. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, a lot of communities in Vermont, especially now after a lot of the real estate just got bought up and everything else, Sam. You know, we have to be aware. Yeah. So does that include rental tenants too? Yes. Or homeowners. Rental tenants. Yeah, it includes anybody here. That's gonna be. All of those rents are considerably higher than they have been short in the past, so that would account for it. I think that you're gonna. Pressure. That's gonna be the push, is to find, create housing opportunities, multi-use housing opportunities. And they're trying to do it within almost from, you know, Mary Elm Bachelors for starters, past the school. That area may be up to the end of South Maine. They're trying to find it so that it's pedestrian-friendly so that people can walk, bike from in these certain areas. So it's hard for Bethel because what isn't in the floodplain or the river corridor, or yeah, conservation easements was out by uning flats. All the conservation easements for that land was gone a while ago, so the developable area is tricky for Bethel. And that's one thing that the Planning Commission is currently working on, looking at aerial photos, topographical maps, trying to figure out to do growth. But it's hard to. And one of the interesting things that came up was in the meeting, couple meetings I've had with two rivers about this, is even looking at third stories, which is if you can't go out, go up. So it'll be interesting to see. The other thing that came up in the meeting the other night was, do we want to consider changing the acreage limit, lower, reducing the acreage limit in certain sectors so that we can have more developable properties than what we currently have? Which is exactly what the Planning Commission is working on. That's part of it, is changing zoning districts. So that maybe instead of four acre, it's two acre, one acre. And it's interesting, Rick Benson had looked at the town surrounding us, so Royalton doesn't have zoning unless you're triggered into Act 250. Some places have, their entire town's all one acre zoning. So it's interesting, he was looking to see if there was some consensus among the surrounding towns for zoning. And currently, he said Randolph is probably the closest. But that is something that we're looking at, Mary Floyd and Farron Griffin of the Conservation Commission came and talked to the Planning Commission. And just to see what we were, what were we talking about, what were we, and assuring obviously, there's some sections in resource conservation that are 20 acres that you wouldn't want to talk about. There are also, there are a few sites here in the village area that could accommodate multiple housing. But the problem that owners are having is that these structures are old and they, like the gentleman that was here last time, they put so much into it to then not make it feasible to rent it even out. Yeah, that's true. So maybe in some ways instead of maybe building if the state would partnership or grant money to allow some of these individuals to fix up these multi-unit places. Like, you know, we have two places right down here. I mean, we have the burned out structure here that's doing nothing. I mean, there are structures around here that could do something with some help. But I mean, it just doesn't make financial sense to spend $400,000 straight up something. You're only gonna get back $1,200 a month. Like a wheelhouse. I mean, they've put a lot of money into the wheelhouse. But still would have to throw tremendous amount more into it just to get it up to code. You know, we already have the pieces of the, the structures right down here in Blossom Block. Those ones, you know, there's opportunities to house people. We have an apartment in the honor block that we are legally not allowed to rent. I could live there as an owner, but we can't rent it legally. Yeah. Because it's a third story? Yeah. Because off the backside of the building, it's a good story. So even though it's technically only the second story, the drop off, and that's where the bedroom is, is three stories off the ground. So it'd be nice that, you know. So you can jump, but your tenants aren't. Right. Yeah. Don't let you jump. Yeah. We have a ladder, but 25 feet, it doesn't even make it one floor. It's like, yeah, you're in trouble. It felt like a joke, couldn't it? Yeah, exactly. But I mean, we do have structures that are available in town. They just, they're going to consume a lot of money. Yeah. Spaces, I mean, even above Richardson's, the Wheeler Palace, like there's tons of spaces that could be developed. I think it really is just the capital. So we might be looking at some of the little niches on, you know, like the Arnold Block and other ones like that of, that could turn into something, but can't do the current setup. Well, but that's not, we're not zoning isn't stopping her. The fire safety or somebody is to, but so where's the Wheeler House? I'm sorry. It's the big White House. Across from Central Park. Yeah. The big White House. Oh, oh. Yeah. Yes. Oh, yep. Sally and Derek. But there's a couple of them right on that stretch, that side of the road that are. So there's three or four units in there. We lived in there the first time in town. Yeah. That's right. And between those, they would house what? Five? It was five in there. I mean, between just those two buildings, there was what nine potential? I wonder what. Apartments or whatnot. Housing and conservation. Like the Agency of Housing and Conservation. Like, if there's somewhere where we could approach them to say, here's, here's what we're seeing. We're hearing the state saying, there's this need for housing. We can meet it. We can actually, we have spaces. What we need is money to do the renovations needed to bring older buildings up. Up the code. Yeah. Supposedly that is a push of Governor Scott's. She's got a ton of money to upgrade that house. It just didn't get done well. Yeah. And I. The wheeler house. She got it like a quarter million dollars to upgrade. Wow. And they just didn't do it right. I think that. The Nancy, Nancy, girl, you mean? Go back to the. Going back. Yeah. Not the current orders. They got the historical money. Yeah, yeah. We moved there right after Nancy finished the renovation. And they were, they were active. You know, the units were running and the life was full. And then she sold it and then it started to go downhill. Yeah. So I think. I mean, there are some, you know, it'd be interesting to do a study on how many structures we do have inside the village. That could be something that maybe need. I also. Well, come to a planning commission meeting. Well, we'll listen to you. What the plan could be with the, the Bethel for all for the better connections because so much of that is about accessibility and developing in a walkable downtown district. I mean, I wonder if the state would kind of favor that. And I know that would be in the subsequent phases after that grant, but. I don't know. And currently too, it's hard for us too because it's private property. So that's the other trick for us is to help people going to do it. But it has been a push of Governor Scott's and there was talk that there was money coming down the pike to help, to help developers and help people that own, you know, to develop this. So I, I don't know what that mechanism is currently, but there's been talk about that. So hopefully the governor, you know, is a legislator. They pass some money along for development. There's got to have to be rules, regulations and standards, but it's hard for us to promote growth on, you know, in private property, but, but certainly. Anyway, so that's what the planning commission is working on and. Not to mention they've made it so difficult in the state to even rent out your piece now. I mean, it's not like the old days where it was easy just to rent to people and now it's, they make it so hard. Like especially after, you know, going through right now with, you know, I mean, how many landowners have not even had rental income in certain places for so long? I mean, how can we expect them to continue using their buildings like that, you know? No, it's a difficult. I mean, they haven't made it easy for anybody to own anything. No, it's true. It's been, and certainly with COVID it's been difficult. But anyways, that's what's going on with this grant. That's what's going on with the planning commission. The same things we've been talking about, but I did think those were a couple of interesting statistics that to think about as far as housing. Okay. We had the emergency shelter storage replacement. So this, so Cindy Matt Kauff is now the chair of the emergency management committee. The trailer that we have now is eight by eight by 20. And I guess the floor's rotting out, the, that's leaking. And there's, she said, what we need is, and this is Joanne Marshall. Also I spoke to Joanne today. What we need to house are two pallets four foot high. The school has said that there's no room in the school. Joanne followed up today with John Hubble. And John said that the room that was vacant that they moved a teacher into. So what we need to do is to purchase either something half that size, four by four by 10, or could we build something? You know, someone had asked if the, if Lindley's going to, could her kids build a shed? I'm like, I don't know. Do you want something that is moving? I don't know. That's the bigger question. Well, that's it. I'm thinking, wow, these are metals. But I also said, what about a metal shed? You know, so I'm not really sure. I do have. How accessible does it need to be? Like, I mean, I just gotta think there's places in town where. Well, it needs to be moved. I mean, we have the whole, you know, the old, you know, Vermont stove place down there. I mean, that's just. Well, I think. I think that's. That's not going to be used. What I didn't have there was because the school was the emergency shed. Yeah. Yeah. So having a supplies registration to the building makes it real easy. Is that or maybe the ability to rent or own a small connex box or something, you know? I would talk to Dave, I was getting, see if there's room at the top of the fire station. Up above? Yeah. Oh, in that room, are you guys do training sometimes? Yeah. There's a tunnel for us to crawl through, but there's plenty of room up there. I don't know. Dave feels the same space at the FD. That would kind of be a good central spot for it. Yeah, because you're not that far from the school because that was the thing I was trying to figure out a price for one of these. And then I spoke to, I called, well, Lucky is sold to Big Tex Trailer World. So I called down there, Big Texas, and they said I could check with pack van, but anything that they owned was 20 feet long. Like we don't need. And they sold small trucks to Big Tex Trailer World. Yeah, all right, yeah. So I did call down there and then, but 20 feet, we just don't need it for two pallets. So I wasn't sure, because that was my question, was how, you know, we have $725 in the emergency shelter budget, which has been there for a long time. I don't know where it came from originally, but that isn't gonna buy us anything. So I wasn't sure if a slipboard member wants to spearhead this project and try to figure out what our options are and what we can do. Yeah, I'll tell you what then. I think we also talked with Cindy there at Fort Fest. I think she also had some concerns in regards to some of the supplies themselves that we may need to take a look at and acquire over time. Yeah, so she said we also need to tear down some of those, both she and Joanne Marshall had said, they need to go into some plastic totes so that they're, you know, that way it's, because the critters have access, so whatever's in the pallet now that's wrapped, whether it's blankets or whatever. There's also some things in the school, I believe, Paul, that I thought that someone said there were blankets in the school. All right, maybe they're in the, I misunderstood that. So it would be something about breaking it down. The existing trailer, could that be sold for scrap metal and bring in some revenue that should then go into that budget? Yep, yeah, absolutely, yeah. So we would probably have, well, we'll have to, we'll see how much is left as we have to get somebody to take it down and haul it off, but yeah, we could find someone who'll scrap it. I don't want to take a look at it and see if there's any chance of repair. I mean, we could look into the fire department's option. It's a pretty steep staircase and whatnot going up there. We'd have to do something to round it to both sides. Yeah. But if you had it, it was a totes and it was a little more. Yeah, I mean, we could get it to the point where it was still functional. I mean, I haven't been in it. Well, the only reason why I was saying it, it sounded like we were gonna need to acquire additional supplies, which could then we need additional room, you know? True, right. So if we're just thinking two pallets now that two really might be four. Yeah, because that doesn't sound like enough supplies to do the type of Irene. Right. Yeah, I will say that Cindy said we'd be only needed half the space. So do we have an invention that currently about two pallets four feet high? And I know that, and that's what she said was, you know, something half the size of the existing was Cindy's comment. So like you, I've never been inside of it. But also Joanne made a good point, too, is obviously, thank God, knock on wood, that we haven't had a big, you know, another, I mean, it's gonna be hard to prep for something as big as Irene, right? But that'd be great, Paul, if you're willing to take a look at that view. Well, we talked about that. Actually, I mentioned that today, since now that we've had it all spray-phoned, we could store, but Joanne kind of felt maybe that was too far away from the school and it's not easy when it snows to get in. It's a trick to get in down there. If something happens, you get to be able to jump on it quick. Yeah, and it would be in the winter, you know, we don't obviously don't keep that path clear. It's narrow to get in and out of there. It's a little trick, so. So you're gonna be able to do something long-term? Yeah. I didn't know if maybe even Jen Bartleman or something, you know, does she know someone who might have a smaller, you know, something, I don't know. I think ideally it'd be nice to have a smaller one. When Lee's could build one with her crew of middle schoolers. Tim Murphy at the RTCC, the Disconstruction Traits there, maybe his kids could do it, it probably wouldn't be within this year, but to get into his business. There's also a cement slab at the father station, that would accumulate to build the shed. Right, that something could go on. So we can see, we'll look at some options. In the meantime, I hope we just have to target what we have to do for the matter of fact. If you had to do something neat, maybe it would be worth a phone call to, you know, the valley motor's sitting empty. They haven't got a date for tearing that down yet. That's fine, they told us it was. I thought they were supposed to do it in November. Exactly, we were in November, yeah, October November, yeah, now. They're working in there, doing their mediation. And just this week? No, no, they've been, they've been in and out of there for about a month and a half. Yeah, but they're kicking on supply though, they're redoing bathrooms in the main building. They're just storing all their stuff in there. I've seen the engineering company that came and talked to us, they've been in there. Oh, okay. The ones, maybe it was a meeting you missed at, you know, they came and reported about them. Yeah, you tell us, yeah. Because they talked about it. I know, of course, no. Exactly. They're doing work and they keep all the stuff in there. All right, any other further discussion on that? So we'll look at at least something short term, look at, and then on the longer term, we'll be finding a longer term structure as well as maybe taking an inventory on what supplies we may need to purchase over a period of time. Yeah. Okay. Sure, he's talking. Yeah, because, and that's something that's indeed been working on, but. Yeah. Well, thank you, Paul. All right, and just touching base on some of the, starting some of our budget discussions. So yeah, as I said, I, the only solid numbers I have are from the Lister's office. I know that Gary Kugler and Dave Altredetti are working on their numbers. Deetree's working on hers currently. I just had a conversation with Alan and I gave my, gave some preliminary information to Ryan. So we should have some better information because once I have a couple hours, it's easier to kick out. But in the meantime, there were a couple things that I wanted to talk about to see what, what, how you felt about it. One of them is, I know it's a big price tag, but it's 8,800 for a speed cart. Now we had 7,400 in the Constables which purchased our two new lights. So we already have a baseline of 7,400 in there. I'm hoping that, no, Doug, what's the word? What do you put, what's the word? It's not chucks. What do you put behind the wheels of a truck so they don't- Chucks. Chucks, thank you. So I know we need chucks. That's something we were gonna take out of the VLCT passive grant. If there was a little bit of money, usually you can write to 5,000, maybe trying to put some towards this. And to see if there was any, I was gonna write to Natalie. I'm sorry, I'll write to Natalie at the state and see if there's any money. But we've had a lot of complaints about speeding on Church Street. And I tried, I borrowed from Loretta, Chief Stollnicker and Royalten, their speed cart for a couple of weeks. I asked the state if they had one that we could borrow and they couldn't find theirs. They said they sent it out for repair and weren't sure they ever got it back. I talked to the repair shop and he said, yeah, we'll send it back. But I don't know where that is. So anyways, it would be useful if we had our own because we could move it. When we've had targeted patrol done on Christian Hill, when we've had issues on Camp Brook or Gilead or, you know, so 8,800 when I wrote to the Lady at Worksafe and Barry, I was, that was painful. Have we seen significant decrease in speed and we have results that show that this is a valuable tool? Well, I think it would be because it records its speeds. So I'm still having complaints. I talked to Dominic Rantis. He was in this week or at the end of last week and he's one of the people. We have people who work, who walk on Church Street a lot and are just commenting about the speed. Talked to the people at the credit union and they said, people are coming barreling off Church Street down the bridge. And they said, sit here. I've been during the day and look out. So the heart, that's what would collect the data would be a cart like that. And we could, you know, I think once you have one of you maintain it, you know, we would be able to have it for a while. But I don't know what else to do, frankly. We have two constables that we're lucky if we get, you know, 10, 15 hours a week because Justin works weekend nights. So it's hard for us. When we talked about putting this out and not having constables but contracting with the state police, that was 40 plus thousand a year that the state police wanted. We figured we'd be looking at similar numbers for the sheriff's department. So an $8,800 speed car looks pretty good. So I just am not sure. We could throw it in the budget and see how it goes. But I think at that point we're just kind of, you know, treating the symptom rather than the problem. The problem is at this point is we haven't found the right fit of a constable to give us the hours of the day of trolling that we would see some of these speeds coming down. You know what I mean? I mean, I know it's hard for us to find anybody, but it just seems like that the hours that are being worked right now are, I want to say are worth nothing, but you know, they're being done in hours that people don't see out there. The last couple of day periods, I think it's been one with 16 hours and you know those 13 hours, over a two week day period. Right, yeah. And it's hard too because I think, you know, Chris Jarvis was talking about this before either. Oh, I guess when we went to that breakfast meeting the other day, you know, if a police officer picks somebody up for a DUI, there's easily 10 hours. And if we only have them in the budget for 20 anyways, that's it. I mean, you know, the majority of the work and paperwork is tricky. If we were going to hire someone full-time, full-time, full-benties, we could find somebody. But because we're only trying to do 20 hours, these police officer constables now have to be certified. They have to be part-time certified. And these guys all have full-time jobs. They need to work full-time. So we were lucky in the past because people were constables, maybe they put together Rochester, Hancock, Bethel, and kind of made a living that way. But it's a trick to do because people want retirement. They want health insurance. They want that. So if you were going to bring, have one person full-time, we could find somebody. There was no doubt about it. And officers that we had and see why, why they're working for world and part-time or 30 hours a week and why they're doing what they're doing to make a living. Well, they're working both of them work full-time, 40 hours a week. One is a Rutland County Sheriff's Deputy and one is a police officer in Royalton. And they're both working full-time. And that's why, because they have families and they need, like all of us, need to work full-time and they need the bennies. Well, I wonder if, Emmy, I know it seemed like, or at least what I was told like 10 plus years ago is that people didn't want to see a police department in Bethel, that we were comfortable with the constable role. But the issue that has evolved over the last five to 10 years is that that simple come on for 10 or 20 hours of patrol time. Again, all it takes is to pull over a DUI or drug offense or something like that. And there goes your whole like 20 hours with all the, between going to court and doing the paperwork and this and that. And I wonder if the time is for us, maybe as a board and a town, to explore maybe the full-time officer thing. I could put some numbers in the budget with... Not to say that that's the way we're going, but it just, we can't find the right person because we can't offer full-time. And right now, whatever little bit of time we are getting out of constables, is it really valuable time that we're getting? And I would argue that it's probably not. And it's actually a travel time for people to both live and we're on the inside of the hill. And it's travel time that gets taken out of the time. Yeah, so if you had one full-time and you still kept one part-timer for a few hours a week, it might see something there. I don't know. I could run the numbers in the budget. Maybe you could get some information from Royalton on what, you know, a full-time. Sure, I can do that. If it's only a part-man, just a full-time individual. Right, no, I mean that I could do. All I need is an hourly rate. I can calculate all the bennies myself. So that's easy enough. If it's only for, well, the conversations come up because of traffic control. Now that's a, is this the only way to deal with traffic control or speed control? I'm not saying we shouldn't think about full-time, but are there other possibilities? For example, cameras on those radar units that can literally take a picture of somebody doing 35 in a 25-zone. Yeah, but we only have two of those in town and that's strapped for like Christian Hill and I'm not sure what this, these could, I don't know if these could do it. I mean, I'm just, I'm doing it. I'm just trying to think, what's the problem we're trying to solve so that they're accurate and you know, I'm not holding it so that we can force them. The other thing too is if you look at, which you guys haven't gotten a long time, which actually just reminds me, is you don't have any reports from Oscar. But the other thing that we were missing is, I mean, the traffic enforcement pieces is probably the piece that people complain about the most, right? But the piece that we're missing that we haven't had for some time now is being able to partner with the school and being out and about and seeing that the events, if it's either sporting events or Ford Festival or whatever, or the other stuff that comes up and some of the issues that we have at some of the parks and what activities are going on there. Yeah, dogs and drugs and I mean, we're getting a lot of calls about it. We're getting a lot of calls about it. I know that there's a lot more to it. But I just want to be clear. What's the problem we're trying to solve? I think it's several. I mean, we get a lot of calls for sure dogs because they're also the dog warden, but also on drugs. I mean, we've had, that's been a real uptick in the last month, people calling the office and I'm trying to refer them to VSP, or I am referring to VSP, Oscar's been in a loop some. You're right. Trust people living at Pevine and camping and all that sort of stuff. So we've had issues all over the map. I mean, I think Chris is right. It may be the time to explore more options for policing. And even if we, I think the 40 to 43,000 that we looked at not last year, but the year before that was only gonna get us 20 hours of the VSP. Right. So 40,000. If that could get rolled into a full time. Right. It would be a lot more. So do you think that I actually do appreciate that they've been doing patrolling at night as somebody who walks this corridor at night quite frequently. I appreciate seeing them on, you know, at night just both for drivers that just speed through town recklessly because there aren't cars parked so you can. Yeah. But I think there's also an increased drug activity. And so having that presence there is I think a good shift, but that means we're sacrificing the daytime and just being a presence both of them. And if we also had a full time individual that was, you know, they could do some day and night, move their schedules around to, you know. Absolutely. It just seems like we're missing a lot of the community pieces of it. You know, that community touch. And you're also. Because nobody even knows who the new constable is. You know, like, you don't see him. He's not around. You know, he is around, but he's not there. Right, because he's there at nights. And the other thing too is. This may be the time to think about something more, partly because the community think we need more attention to something, to one facet of the position. Yeah. That's a good point. I mean, and not like we want to push quotas, but obviously there's some of the budget could be offset by an increase in police fines. I know the state keeps, I don't know, 80, I bet they keep 80, 85% of the ticket at this point, but still, at least, right? Yeah, you get like a lesson. I know, it's crazy. But I mean, still there isn't, you know, there is some offset there. I mean, it wouldn't be bad to just. I could throw the numbers in the budget. Throw the numbers together and see what that looks like. How that would look like. Absolutely. Complete with retirement home. And I mean. Do you then provide housing or facility? I mean, that's another, if we have our own quote, officer, where is that person, that office? You still in the town. You still in the town. Well, pretty much there, I mean, they're mobile. Next to trees. Well, yeah, but. Good. Oh. It's just another, it's just another. Exactly, regarding the two towns, the trouble. The issue with police officers now is they're mobile. They pretty much all do everything by their MDTs, their mobile data terminals. Sure, would they be, you know, would they, you know, need access to stuff? Yeah, they were in the town office before where we have a little bit of, where we now put the postage machine, all that. We did have somebody in there. There's, if they were going to be in an office, when we, well, we'll find somebody. Hey, the basement. Well, we'll find a place. Is it where the living would be all the time? No, because they'll work with these people. Because if they ever arrest anyone, like a DUI, which they have done, they go to VSP or they would go to Royalton. The other thing we had talked about was even contracting with Royalton. Once we saw, you know, the price with VSP and not that the VSP is not worth every dollar because they, I'm certain, you know, they, they certainly are. Well, 43,000 or whatever, two years ago for 20 hours was rough. And be more, it probably would be just, it would be Jesse's expense. And that's what we've seen, after you just contract a part-time person, you're paying a full-time, almost a full-time wage for it, you know what I mean? So it's, but it just seems like we're not gonna find anybody unless we're ready to. I think that's true. But there's some opportunities. I mean, with the law enforcement community in the shakeup that they're in right now, there are individuals that are looking for starting new routes and, you know, you know. I think that's true. Would this be worth having as a discussion at a meeting? It may be. We'll see. And having those numbers of, this is what it would look like to have a full-time person. And then have it as a discussion and see where it goes. Could be, if you were. Also, some information about, this is what it really means in terms of workload for catching that speeding person. It's not just a 20-minute, you got the person pulled over. But what does that mean in terms of? Well, versus the difference of a speeding or a DUI. Or a DUI, and maybe. And I think that's why, I mean, when we had, when Oscar first came to town, right? You know, he was devoting. He was doing 20 hours. Most of his time here, we had a combination of the speed signs and Oscar. So we had the, you know, the attention that the, they would get as they're coming through town, but they also knew that somebody was sitting somewhere, right? And now it's almost like, it's kind of like going through a construction zone. You see the blue light, like, you know, you just zoom right by him, right? Cause you know they got going anywhere. So it's kind of the same thing. The speed signs are saying you're doing 35, but they go through downtown. They haven't seen anybody get pulled over in a long time. I think to Lindley's point, that the select board would have to make, if you wanted something to be able to start in July, then you would have to, we would have to put the numbers in the budget and you guys would have to go to the town meeting with the numbers in the budget. If somebody wanted to make a motion at town meeting to remove an amount from the budget, obviously they can't tell you where, but they could make a recommendation and then you guys could go from there. But I think, let's just put the number in there and see what it looks like. The other things I had on here were, obviously now that we're ensuring the shooting range, quickly before we move on from the budget, is there any chance that the new speed sign by the school could be moved so it's not blocked by the telephone? It's going to be moved. Yep, I asked Richard to move it. It feels like a joke when you're climbing up. It's like, I know it's there, but you can't see it until you're right at it. I asked Richard to get it moved before snow flies. And he said that they... I mentioned that. I keep heading to bring it up. Well, Richard, yeah, he came up right away. So he knows and he offered to, or I asked him to please do it before snow flies. So I'll double check with him. So the other things I had, obviously, was the $1,400 a year of shooting range insurance. So we paid that this year, so that will be added to the upcoming budget. If people want to see a redesign of the website, then we need to put in more money than what's already in the budget. Do you have an estimate for what's? I have no idea. I didn't see anything. Any idea what they want to do? Well, I think people just have felt, my understanding is people just think the website's too clumsy or too much. But I did ask Kelly to spend some time, and she did over the last few months, pairing it back. But it's a difficult beast in the sense that people want access to everything, but God forbid they got to click three times to find it. So it's tough. We've looked at other websites and Bethel did theirs the same time that a majority of municipalities did the same one. The Snelling Center got a grant from somebody and they came in and helped people design the website because all of us had the same base website design weight page look out. So she did pair down, she took some stuff off, tried to combine community links, make it a little more accessible so that it wasn't, it was just in one page, so there was a little more viewer friendly. But my understanding is people just feel like they have to go too far to find things. So we have tried to put more things right on the announcement page on the front. We've used Gene or Paul's suggestion of connecting things to the calendar. I don't know what people want to have, obviously more than our website offers. And, you know, we're just maintaining it in the office. None of, you know, nobody's designed to do that. Do you have any computer, like higher computer classes at the high school level or any kids like that that would be? Not that I'm aware of. You're too busy acting. Could use that as a, could use it as a project or, you know, community service hours of, you know, towards something. It could be a college. I mean, there's obviously kids, there's obviously web design programs at different, at different, you know, I'm just concerned that I don't care what you do. These people will be happy that these people are going to be pissed off. You do not change, well, these are happy, these are happy, these people now they're pissed off. Yeah. You've got to come up with something. And you'll be called, you need some help. I'm going to run you through it once, please. Then it's up to you. Three times, you have to punch three keys. I'm sorry. Something else to factor in is not just the initial rework of the website, but depending on how you do it, if you have to have a second party that does your maintenance and any updates. And so that's just something to keep in mind. I know currently we're doing them because when you bought it, they're not you person. When Bethel bought this thing, she's been doing the updates. She said originally she wasn't even hired to do that. It just was given to her to do. And she's currently been the one who continues to do it for us. But we can't control the look of it. Like right now the majority of the top of the screen is a picture. We can't even shrink that to which we would like to so that the website is a little, more information shows up on your screen so you wouldn't have to scroll down. To do that we would have to buy another platform. And we don't have the manpower to move from the current platform to another. So I have no idea. I was just gonna see if the select board was open to it. I asked Vermont Digital. They do our other technology and they don't do websites. So I'm not sure if it would cost 2,500, five grand. I look at quite a bit of different towns websites for collecting bid results and stuff through work. And for the size town that we have ours is actually decent compared to a majority of them that I go to. Some of them I go to and I can't find. Meeting minutes, I can't find. You really have to drill down and find anything. Or just the common information that we expect to see. Let's say the bylaws or something. They don't have it on there. So I think that we are doing well. I think to Dave's point maybe no matter what we do it's probably not ever gonna be up to everybody's standards. But for a town of our size I think ours is pretty decent. I think people forget too. Pam is the town court treasurer. She works full-time. Kelly works full-time. She manages, she does the majority of the zoning. She takes people's money. She deals with that. De-treat only works part-time. And she does the finding, the billing, the collections. It is that in me. So it's not like we have 15 people running around either. So we're all trying to do it. And, but, so, you know, you don't. How good? Put a suggestions tab on there. If you've got it. Way to the far right. There you go, yeah. Make it hard for me. Make him drill down a few times. I find it again. Contact us. I'm just gonna say that. But yeah. I got what you're saying. Yes. I just found it very quite clunky. And hard to find information. And I do think that it could be significantly streamlined. Now, I'm not a web designer. But I would like to know what it would cost. Okay. To have somebody take a look at it in terms of making it more accessible for the kind of information people want when they're going there. That's not to say we aren't doing well compared to others. It's simply to say, it's an accessibility issue. Just like so many other things. The easier it is, the fewer clicks, the more accessible we are. Well, it's difficult for us to know what people are looking for when they get on the bus. I'm assuming it's zoning, which is easy to find me. But I think so. So that's what I look for. I'm looking at other people's websites, town's websites, which I do frequently if I hate to reinvent the wheel. I'm always looking for their second ordinance or zoning regulation, something like that. For example, I was looking for my property. Yeah. Tax statement. You were looking for your what? My taxes. We don't have that on the website. Why? Because, well, I'll list of reasons. But it's public information. Well, actually it's not. That's where the trick lies because where people's state payment is not. So what you put out there is difficult. And don't forget, because Vermont is Vermont, we get, like today, we issued eight revised hacks though. So you have home residential home decorations. What's the word I want? All right, so let me back up. I was trying to find my school tax number, which is related and my homestead status. I'm not talking about the specific number of dollars. I'm talking about a property report. Right. And which is available if I go to the courthouse. Yeah. All right. But it's information that in other communities I found readily available on my town website. Yeah. Now, that's one thing this guy was looking for. Yeah, that's my point is I don't know what everybody's looking for, but that's interesting to know. We also have to. And so I'm looking for public information about the property I own. And at a place where I would think it would be available. That's interesting. I never. And so that's people would, well, I would like to know. Well, that's interesting though, but that's good, yeah. Even if it's a what's the kind of information that people might be looking for. Right. And how do we accommodate that? How do we know? Yeah. What's the best first button menus list? Yeah. But I think you also have the combination of what would it take to bring our website up to more modern and terms usable. But I think also Theresa touched base on it is once it is there, then how do we keep it there? Right. And right now we don't have the hours budgeted. Right. We don't have the people budgeted to have someone maybe have eyes on it more than probably needs to be. So maybe at the same time. Yeah. If you're talking about, I'll just throw it out there. If it costs $5,000 to redesign it, let's say, but then it's gonna take, I don't know, five hours a week, what would that number look like? But the web designer is going to know that, hey, this is already in your computer system. So it's a question of how do we make that available to the website? So that an update in the property, for example, just automatically happens. You don't have to update the website just because you made a change and somebody bought it. That's assuming the state's software is amenable. But we're dealing with this in the transportation side that we can't get the state's software to speak with any modern technology. And so it seems like it should be simple, but it's actually, it's causing it's huge headache. Okay. I don't know. Yeah, I know. I don't know. It's like the police officer thinks, I would like more information. So we can make an informed decision rather than this guy thinks it's easy and this guy thinks it's... Yeah, no, I'll get a couple of numbers. But we should probably also have what it's gonna cost to update the website, but also what would it cost for maintenance? If that's either internal or external. Right, we can do stuff. We put up our agenda. Or what we think it might be a year. We do agendas and it's basic stuff, but... Because again, we used to have one extra person in that office that we don't have anymore. So we're doing things with one less person. So any questions on the website? I guess for my experience, just today, I couldn't figure out how to find the agenda for today's meeting or even if there was a Zoom link for it. I'm not saying that the information isn't there somewhere, but it was very, I couldn't find it. Okay. And yeah, there wasn't. Okay. Rita, the bloutier mask is Rita. And this Zoom link was private. We did it last time for us. So we're trying to work out the hybrid option. So we haven't released the link yet because we're trying to make sure the laptops, the projector, everything works well. So we're still in the figure it out phase. But yeah, I'll ask Kelly, it should have been, you should have been able to go to the calendar and clicked right on the calendar for today and it should have brought you to that. So I apologize that it was difficult for you to find. I'll take a look. I mean, it's here. So it's in government meetings and agendas. Okay. And that's it. It's in the lineup below that. Is it in the calendar? Yeah. Because it's close to me. The calendar is right to the dock as well. Okay, good. I just want to make sure. I do want to say this because I'm one of the people who was frustrated by our website. I think that what really has done on this actually does make it more. Okay, yeah. I've been saying it while we are talking, just navigating to things that I would commonly look for and finding it easier and some of the issues that I've had before have been resolved. So I think that it might be a mix of both of, like they're saying that having the numbers and looking at what that costs is going to be and weighing that out. But also, I think doing more regular maintenance and hearing the public comment more frequently about it because as all able-minded people, we don't know what an accessibility issue looks like from somebody until they bring it up to us. Yeah. Right, and so. Yeah, so that's a good point. And also too, that's a good point about putting something on the website or if they have problems on problems using the website, they can email somebody. All right, so that was in the budget. My, let's see what it says. So you're thinking that the next meeting we'll start to get? Yeah, so I'm trying to, yeah. That's my plan. We'll start getting. This is my vacation actually, that's the plan. We'll start getting some. Well, I'd like to. Just a budget leave as I go. Well, I'd like to do, yeah, because actually I'm going to be on vacation, believe it or not, but my plan is if I can get fire department numbers, roads I can do, listers I have. City edge listers, yeah. Deed trees is working on hers this week. I mean, if I sat down uninterrupted, I can. Everything about P.W. for now? Well, I want to do theirs too. So I mean, I can do the entire budget once I have a little more feedback from a couple people. And oh, the good news was too is I also found out as far as the budget for public works is just information in general. The state finally caught on to the shortage of people with CDLs. And apparently a lot of the people working for the state highway just went up four pay grades. So a lot of the people just got a $4 an hour raise. And then, so I did get a peek at that schedule so we can see what that looks like. And so apparently they realized that how hard it is to find people. Then I was going to ask you guys, okay, Janice Punger had talked to you guys about the $15,000 social services coordinator. I don't know if you want to see that in the budget. And I also updated you a little bit about ERAF for Pinello Bridge that we've picked up some of it. And so there'll still be a little bit more ERAF in the next budget, but then that'll take care of, should be all of our FEMA projects. But I didn't know how you felt about the social service coordinator position. If that's something I should also put in the mix or... Okay. I say no. Okay. I thought I said before, I don't think that we are in a position to do that. We don't, we can't afford $15,000 if we're not coming anywhere near paying somebody who's qualified to do that. Well, I mean, again, it doesn't necessarily have to mean it's $15,000 either, you know. I mean, I think it's a good, you know, in a more perfect world. I think it's a great service to provide to the community. If we did have, you know, somebody that the community knew they could go to to find information or link to information when it comes to public service, I think, you know, that was just that one individual is what they wanted to do the job. I think there's also maybe a more regional approach to that, you know, rather than more just a faffle. Maybe it was a combination of a couple of towns approach where, you know, maybe we all could share into something, but... And I wonder how much that already exists, maybe not in exactly the way she was saying, but Capstone is an example. I feel like there are social service entities and maybe it's, Beth, we're talking to them about how can we, how can we better funnel people to you when we get asked that are outside of our realm? How do we put you on our new website? Yeah, how do we put you on the website? How do we put you on the website? We also support a lot of the services, through the human services appropriations too. I mean, I think it's always something to, you know, keep the idea of flowing, but maybe the time will come and we'll have more flexibility in our budget, but... I was in a meeting the other day with Randolph Fogh looking at housing issues, and we talked with Capstone and Randolph area, some Randolph network, and frankly, they do that already, and so it may simply be that we need more, we need to know who it is that may be doing that already so that we can take advantage of stuff that is already in the system. It's not necessarily as bare in a landscape, maybe. So if somebody called you, Teresa, at the office, or called somebody at the office in regards to an issue like that, do you have a list of all the places where you can point them instantly and say, this is where you need to go? Yeah, and we refer them to Capstone and we created, I actually went online and got a bunch of links and information and put it in. We did a flyer or in one of the water bills, we split a piece of paper in half and we sent people a bunch of information and that a while ago, and then we just did it again so if people are having a hard time with making their utility payments, property taxes, we have a link of a whole bunch of things, whether it was VCAP from the COVID money for utilities, places you can go to get a reduced rate for your electric, food shelf, so we do distribute that information, certainly Capstone is one of the places and of course any social service-appropriate nation that we already give out, we tell people to look at, you know, either in town report and see what agencies are out there, so. Sure. So under the budget, I just wanted some good news is, you know, we started the year, I think we came in looking for about $30,000 since the state moved in the whole, since the state changed us from our 13.64% to 19.5, but with some savings in the health insurance line, one of the bigger sections I had to pick up to find was in public work, so it looks like we're gonna be able to cover public works with where we had budgeted for maybe a couple of family plans, we have some savings, so I think it'll pick that up, so. That's good news. You're talking about the current budget. The current budget, it's a piece of it. Is the state gonna give us any information to how they're gonna screw up retirement for this current budget season before we actually approve it like last time? No. I mean, should we, I mean, are we looking at another? I don't know. 19% or something bigger or smaller? Well, that's what I wanted, because we'd been budgeting 15, because we'd seen an increase in the past, and we had gone, let's see, we'd budgeted 15% instead of the 13.84, thinking because we'd seen an increase a few years ago when I was here and it came in October, like, you know, obviously the state's on the same schedule we are, but we'd had, but we picked that up, to go from that to 19 and a half, I don't know. My contact at the state tells me good luck, Teresa. She was like, I have no idea what to tell you. I could ask her if he's heard, but we, I don't know. I mean. It's scary to know that, right? Right. Yeah. You had asked us if there was something we wanted to talk about in the budget, that sticks out in every. I know. Item. Oh, retirement. Everything is normal. It's somewhere between 22 and 26% of money expended and every single one, retirement's 46, 47, 46, 47. And that's a lot more than 13 to 19. Yeah. Well, some of it could be if one of the things that happens is there's certain people that we have a couple of employees where they're split between, I have three employees that are split between different departments, so payroll can only pick up one code. So their retirement all goes to say all public works when in fact it needs to be split between water and parks. So I make that journal entry quarterly. So it runs high and then I, you'll see a reduction like in public works because then that money is expended to parks and water or in Deedre's case, some is at the town manager's office, some goes to recreation. So I make those entries quarterly. So I can also look and see. Now I'll go back and look and see when it's high. I went in, I was going through it, it's like stuck out. Yeah, I'll make a note. I'm not sure, Dave, that's my... 46 and 47. Oh, that is interesting. I mean, because we haven't prepaid. So I'll have to go in and take a look. Retirement question mark. Yeah, just... Look at budget status. But that's... Trying to figure out where we need to be on that. I mean, $30,000, for instance, is one and a half pennies on the tax rate. I know. So it's not like it's a... And we picked up... For our size town, it's a significant deal. Because I can cover it. I can, and the transfer station is the transfer station. That's their issue. Water sewer, I can pick it up with, obviously with cost cutting. Now I can pick it up out of the public works with that, that was tough. The part that's going to be harder is the manager like government budget right there because that's tight. I can't make up the difference of mine, Pam's, Kelly's. I don't have those kind of expenses. Am I going to cut off the supplies? You know, I mean, it's really tight there. The fact that we could save it out of... Well, it's not just... Public works was terrific. That was a big boon. But so I'll look at that, Dave. I'm not sure, I don't know why it's running that high. I'll take a peek, but... Well, this is not the savings right now in this current budget, but when we're building this next budget... I know. I don't know what to put in there. Where do we put it? Because if we, I'll say, estimate high and it doesn't come in, it comes in lower, that's great. But then we missed out on opportunities where we could have done something somewhere else. Put money aside or whatever. And lost time around. Miss it again, which isn't really our issue. But if we miss it again, then we have to chase through the budget trying to sacrifice something else. To find it. Yeah, so it's kind of... And it's hard because last I knew there was a committee, you know, the treasurer, Beth Pierce, made a recommendation. Nobody liked it. So then they had a committee that was supposed to discuss the issue. And last I knew that's where it stuck. But if we used to budget 15, I mean, we budgeted a little bit of an increase. Who was gonna budget that? I can't imagine we're gonna see that big of a hit again. We could ask Kurt. I could email Kurt and see if he's heard rumor about... Of course, he doesn't go back in the session until January, right? Exactly, but has he heard anything coming out of those, you know, those meetings? But my guess is, I mean, we could... I mean, if we've done 13.84 to 15, we weren't going for a big increase, but maybe... I think they're all just putting their heads in the sand. Really? Maybe we need to go for... Unfortunately. 5 or 6% this time. I mean, if we don't use it, we won't spend it, but you're right. It's a missed opportunity. It is. It's true, but I don't... I mean, I never would have guessed they would have gone that high in one hit. So I don't know what to tell you, but we'll throw that in there and take a peek. So thank you for that. I appreciate the thinking about those things anyways. All right. Anything left on the town manager before they didn't get to? Tomorrow is the Bethel for All ages, you know, Bethel for All, we're doing that grant ages 8 to 80. So tomorrow there's gonna be a luncheon from noon to 1 if you wanna meet with Steve, Steven, and to have lunch here. Obviously, people have to bring their own meal. You could sit here and talk to Steven. He's the one doing the accessibility portion of the walk. The audit they had been doing has been here for a couple of days. Then from 1 to 3 tomorrow, we're supposed to walk from the town hall to I think the town office, then back here, then from here to the school. I don't know if it's pouring rain if we're gonna do the whole thing or not. It's gonna rain. Yeah, I know it's gonna be lovely. But that's part of the walk audit. There's gonna be state representatives here. Du Bois and King will be here. I'm not sure if everybody on the steering committee will be there. I'll be there, Nicole, Rebecca. So see what information comes from that. Then next week, Tim, myself, Du Bois and King will have a, and the state are gonna have a Zoom meeting because $30,000 of the $97,000 grant is stormwater. So then Tim and I will do that meeting with the state to see what we're looking at there. And I'm sure they've already, the state and Du Bois and King. And of course, a lot of the data's already out there. Because Jim P's at the state of Vermont mapped a bunch of stuff many years ago. Of course, any information that Bethel had in prior reviews of your stormwater system that's out there that they have. So that is going on tomorrow. And Dave Bergeron, sadly is not coming back as our seasonal snowplow operator. And Gabriel Finney's last day was October 21st. So Alan and I are in the process of interviewing replacement candidates. We'll make some hires hopefully this week. Keep you in the loop on that. And as I said in here, work is just continuing on better connections. That's tomorrow. The VoleWreck grant, $500,000 that we wrote for, it is not going to include the pavilion. They have asked that when we submit our full application that we do not include the pavilion. So it's really gonna be trails, benches, kiosks, trail markers, that sort of thing. I think too, they're obviously hoping that we all drop how much we want because there's still a lot of competition out there for the grant. That was my conversation with Jackie Dagger of that one. Closed out the paving grant, Sanders Road grant, the structures grant is kind of wrapping up the contractor that's doing the watershed bridge. Hopefully get to that in the next few days. Wrapping up Gilead, which was our ditching bid, and he's gonna do some work on Brink. So, and I submitted our final DWSRF reimbursement for our 2.8 water for that loan. That was like 379,000, so that stuff's up to date. I heard from the auditors last week I got some journal entries from Jordan. He sent me one today. I updated him on the trial balance. I know Rick is coming back to finish up the BRTS, the transfer station audit. And the transfer station still needs to put out an RFP to find their own auditors. It won't be Sullivan Empowers next year, which they're aware of, but, and I think we're still gonna have a single audit because of the drinking water state revolving loan fund and some FEMA expenses. So, Rick will be back, but so far it looks good. And I know they were happy. If they're happy, I'm happy. So, also I'm going to be going on vacation. So, I'm also gonna take Friday off and hopefully Tuesday through Friday next week. I do have Teams meeting and some other meetings next week, but I'll just do them remotely. So, we'll see. So, we'll see how it all pans out. That's the plan. I'll ask her out on the time limits and you'll love me a lot. That's right, that's right. That's what we'll do. So, that's it for me. Oh, wait, no, that's not it for me. I'm sorry, talk sale update. 10, we have 10 properties going up for talk sale. We did the first round letters. The first stage letter goes out. We include a, it's a wide swath. We do it the first time. And we have received $20 plus thousand dollars with it. As soon as the first stage letter goes out, we receive a lot of payments. Banks, people coming in. So, we did that. Some people that had been sent that were just delinquent in utilities. If their amount is too low or not sending them to tax sale, so we'll shut their water off and get a payment plan that way. So, currently we have 10 properties that are headed for the next stage of tax sale. Two of those I'm pretty sure are going to end up paying hopefully in the next three weeks. So, that would leave us possibly eight properties right now that may go all the way for tax sale. But sometimes when you get into the second letter, people realize you really mean business and will either a bank will redeem or if they don't have one, maybe they'll work to get a mortgage or something. But it is never something that I recommend a town ever by anything at tax sale unless it helps us out, unless it gives us a property. Do we already have infrastructure on that property? Is there a strategic reason that we have one? I know that there's been a couple properties in particular in Bethel that people have been very upset about and said, why does the town continue to let people incur taxes or water to the tune of you know, 10 or 18 to $20,000. But we have sold properties at tax sale and they haven't sold. So, if a property goes for tax sale and it doesn't sell, that's it unless the town wants to buy it. Then I understand that there's a couple properties where people continue to live there and they're just getting deeper and deeper. They have, they're always given the information to go to request an abatement. So, I just really want to say to people publicly, it's difficult for a town because if you go out and you lay out just for, say you have to pay 20 to $25,000 at a tax sale. That pays off somebody's water, sewer, taxes. Then you have to wait a year and then maybe you have to evict people. That's gonna be what, five to $7,000 and then maybe you have a cleanup of a property. So now you own a property, you've evicted people, you've cleaned it up, you're now in it possibly for another year of taxes on top of the delinquency. And now, now what? Now you've cleaned it. You have all this money wrapped into it to do what? To try to sell it. And then we don't know what the market has done. So, I just want people to understand people get frustrated and call the town and say, you're letting so-and-so live there for free. I'm not, if we don't have a bid or a tax sale, I think people, it's difficult because what does the town do? What does the town of Bethel do? Do you, people have to understand when you purchase a property like that what you're getting into. And sometimes the BCA, the best option is for the BCA to abate some, maybe interest and penalty or some of it so that maybe the owner has a chance to, maybe you have a chance to make a payment arrangement with somebody to pick some of that up. So, I just think that you have a couple of properties and I've called people and said, hey, I'm another property for sale. And a lot of people don't want to pick them up because maybe there's somebody already in there or there's a lot of garbage or things out. There may be some cases where you have properties that are back on their payments by a lot that have gone through multiple tax sales that haven't done that maybe at that point, the town does look at taking it over and maybe you never are a whole lot of it but you're gonna continue to be, to get nothing out of it anyways. So, I mean, if they're continuing to not pay and not pay and not pay, I mean, you may have to go in and take it to sell it for pennies on the dollar to at least be able to put it back onto it so that you can collect taxes in water and sewer because if they're not paying taxes in water and sewer, I mean, that burden goes on to others as well. And it's hard to know too eventually if you get into a property where the property, once you finally evict and you actually have, so there's a one year redemption period which means delinquencies grow and then however long it takes you to evict somebody, takes a while, so then you evict them and then you find out, so now what are you dealing with? What's the structural situation of it? Can we, you know, we could sell it then and recoup or are now are you at the point where okay, now we have to go tear it down and now it's just a long demo. I mean, you could still sell a lot but I guess that what I'm saying is you will have two properties that we tried to sell at Taxail. One of them didn't go, I don't think it'll go this year. So there may be two that you guys have to decide and say, okay, what are we gonna do here? Are we going to hope these people go to the BCA and get an abatement and then we set up a payment plan and we play catch-up or? You know, the BCA is receptive to do that if they've made some kind of effort but a lot of times they've come to the BCA and they haven't set up a payment plan or they've bypassed the payment plan or whatever. So that's another, you know, stickler spot. It is. And then if the town does take over a property, let's remember what happened on Sugar Hill. Right. Exactly. It is and well in the end, and that's exactly it because even if the town owns it, we can't make a profit. So even if we go through all this process and we spend 20,000 at Taxail and then we evict someone, so there's another say five, I'm just guessing, I'm sure it's not cheap, another five grand to evict somebody. Then we do another amount to clean it up and then you sell it. So by the time you sell it, the only thing we could recoup what we have in it, but that's it. Anything else that we make over that goes back to the person we... That last one, then we cut them in check. It's like, oh, ooh. Yeah. Like after all that, like how do you... I know. How do you... And this could be bigger. So anyway, so that's, I just want you to be aware, there's a couple out there that you're looking at. If they go at Taxail, it's the perfect thing for us because somebody else buys it. But I think I know one of the problems and that amount of money is getting fairly high. Yeah. Now, is it something we should consider in preface to the Taxail to let you as the seller if someone makes a big profit? Oh, that's a good question. Rather than we only... That's... Someone might... You may have paid the taxes down to a reasonable level where somebody will... Well, there's some... ...acquirements out here talking about. I see what you're saying. I can ask the town attorney that. That's a good question. He's gonna maintain the Taxail. I see what you're saying is if somebody buys it, the town will do X. Basically an incentive for someone to buy it. Yeah, something like if it's $20,000 of the taxes, you know you're gonna get 60 grand in it and maybe nothing bad, you can say, okay, I'll bid $5,000. But I'm the only big one. And you haven't had it better for three years. Okay, so can we... Maybe it's time to say... Can't you just do like a minimum? That doesn't make the whole... For a reserve amount or something like that? I don't know because normally it's the... What somebody owes in delinquent taxes or utilities, you can legally charge up to 15% of what they own legal fees. Any legal fees incurred after that, the town eats. There's usually like a $30 levy fee. There's publication fees. So all that goes back on it. So what your question is, can we accept less? I don't know. Can we accept less than what is... There might be like one or two cases where maybe the board ahead of time... This one I'm thinking, this one I'm thinking of. I think you're gonna have to... The minimum reserve is lowered. Right. Like the full... Yeah, because it's already on your... Basically, I consider it uncollectable. So when we go, when the otters come, I'm like, you know, if we see this, I'm gonna be dancing on Main Street. We'll probably tell you no. But you know, they might not. No, you can't. The other thing is too, is then... Correct me if I'm wrong, Paul. But the select board makes up part of the board of abatement. Yeah. So, right? Because it's the board of abatement. It's the justice of the piece. The state fees and the... Select board and the listers. And the listers around the payment board. So the other thing too is if the property goes for... If the select board was on there, the five of you obviously hold... Not the majority, but a good chunk of whoever at the board of abatement. So you could also push it your way by voting to abate some of it. Because you're already eating it and you haven't got it. But it's hard too, because you don't want to set a precedent that, oh, don't pay your bill. Eventually the town hall. Well, it'd be nice to know what other... Yeah, I'll find out. Like they was saying, if we did have an option to make it more lucrative for somebody to want to invest in that property. You just thought it was a bid kind of thing and without a necessary required minimum. Well, usually no, usually what it's put up for is, like I said, the ongoing publication, all that. Because you don't... I don't sell a property at tax sale if it doesn't have enough owed because it costs us too much money. But once the list comes and I hit the ground running, I try to find buyers. If your property is going up for sale, I probably have someone who's willing to buy it. Because that's, for me, that's the big thing. But last year I had two, one right down to the wire. I thought I had a buyer. And then in the end they couldn't. And the other one I tried hard, but I couldn't find a buyer. Because that's the leverage you have. If someone calls and says, hey, you put my property up for tax sale and you say, yes, and I have a buyer. That's motivation. People go to the bank and make things happen and you get your money back. So, anyways, that's where the tax sale updates. So, well, thank you. Sorry about that. Anything else? Nope. I promise. All right. We had the select board meeting minutes from the 11th of October. It's, wait. It's where? Wait, what? Last sentence. Okay. I see that package is in the package. Under climate action? Oh, wait, I'm sorry. Those are the energy committee meetings. Sorry. I was reading the long minutes. The name is correct at the top of that paragraph. In the, down to the bottom of the text. Last sentence. I'm just trying to find your minutes. Hang on a second. They're in my packet. I'm a lot better from that page. No, I'm just trying to find the minutes in my packet. Hall Valley. Under minutes and communications? No. Oh, I'm sorry. First, second page. Top of the second page. First page. Appointments. Patrick Redman. All right. Paul Redman. Okay, got you. Thank you. Hey, anything else? Yeah, I have a couple of comments on the Bethel Climate Action piece. I wanted to make sure, because the minutes are used from now, somebody goes back and wants to look and see what we did. The minutes are the real record of these meetings. I think it's important that we have the entire statement of what we voted on in the minutes. Okay. And the last page of the packet, Jean has, somebody had furnished the actual statement that went to the Climate Council public input form. I did it. And that is correctly worded as to what we did. So you want this with the minutes. Yeah, I think this should be in the minutes. Any kind of a non-binding resolution or statement of fact or whatever I think should be in the minutes. All right, I can have Kelly, when she puts them in the book, I can have her copy this and put it on the next page. Or do you want to say? Well, I'd like to see something in the actual minutes that refers, because this doesn't say anything about non-binding. Okay. Doesn't this other sheet really states what we're referring to items one, two, and three doesn't make sense without any context. Yeah, because you're right, someone would have to pull up the packet. So I'll add the 10, 12, 21 submission wording to the minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to make sure that it's on the record. Thank you. Yeah. Sure. Anything else? Just need a motion to accept the meeting minutes as amended. No move. Is that Paul and Dave? Paul and Dave? Dave, Dave moved it. One more second. All in favor? Aye. There were quite a bit of other communications in the packet. Hopefully, everybody had an opportunity to go through all those. The bigger one was the municipal round table discussion from the cannabis control board. I got the information. I just thought it would be interesting for you guys to see where they stand and the municipality, everybody, they'd asked people to do a survey, which we did, so I thought it would be good to have additional, just to see for you guys to see what the cannabis control board is saying. Okay. I had a couple of questions in regards to the budget status report. Okay. Couple questions, a couple concerns. So on the town owner equipment piece, so we're a third of the, well, we're 33% of the way through our budget. But we've already consumed two of 14. Not, yeah. Okay. But we've already consumed. Hired services? No, under the repairs, parts, and tires. We've already consumed 46% of our allotted budget and typically history serves me right. The winter time is when we consume a large amount of that and we've already spent half of our budgetary. So I'm a little. Yeah, I have to see what's in there. Now, if you said, hey, we just bought a bunch of tires or whatever. Well, we did. Did that make sense? Well, and he did. Using the winter time is when we have a lot of breakdowns and. And he did just buy tires. So I mean, that was one of the things. It may be an item we might want to really take a look at. That's a category that's kind of a catch-all. But at the same time. A lot of different things. Well, we added 10 to that. I noticed that nothing has hit diesel fuel yet. No. So did any of that money get put in the wrong basket or? Because I noticed no diesel fuel had been put in there. Well, this is also the end of September. So yeah, so I'm not, I think diesel, so I didn't know maybe like it got coated wrong or something. I can look at the detail and but I do not. You would have thought we would have spent probably $15,000 or 10 at least on diesel fuel. And there's been nothing. No, well, and he comes and fills us up. And I think it was in the last one that I saw, which would have been in October. Yeah, so would be in this budget. And I also think he came in in June and topped them off because he thought the price was going to go up. And he did just buy tires. So I'll have to look at the detail. They didn't get a chance to go up there today, but have we hauled any sand in yet? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He just, yeah, he just hasn't built up. Because I just noticed there was nothing in the sand. I was like, well, I hope we've hauled sand in. Oh, we have. I think that Dylan will probably build it when you're done. And what about, usually we don't haul salt until it's time. We don't haul salt. And we did just get a price and we just signed an agreement and it's a dollar less than per ton that we paid last year. So, so we just figured that out today because even the state was struggling with salt. Yeah. So far. Well, I caught, no, I mean buying. I called or I emailed the guy to figure out what the state contract price was for salt. So those are the big ones that I had, but. So I'm not sure about the other one I wanted to tell you is hired services or equipment. Hired services. Yeah, there's also a revenue to offset that because we had to, there's a grant in there to offset some of that expense. So there's a revenue. Not yet because it's a reimbursable. Yeah. So we have to pay up front and then get the money later as the state likes to do. Okay. There's a police department labor number. I know. 9.4. I know. Exactly. Let me see detail on P.O.V. Look at that little closure. Well, exactly. I mean, that's it. Some of this year, if they don't pick up speed then frankly, some of that would be used to offset our expense and our retirement that the state, you know, hit us with. So we'll be looking for that. Do we have a certain time of year where we get, where we receive more town clerk's fees than another? Like, is it the first quarter when you see a lot more clerk fees or? Well, Pam. Is that why it's off right now? Pam keeps her own checkbook. So if she gives them to Kelly to ring up, then we see that. But if she doesn't, then she only pays you, I don't know if she does it quarterly or twice a year even. She ends up, she collects the money and then writes check. And I know she had been doing, she'd been really busy doing recordings, but as the inventory of properties to sell has gotten lower, I think she said she had four property transfers to record that she had in the last, that she gathered in the last maybe 10 days. And before that, there'd been a lot more, so. Yep. A few. You can leave them at the town office or you can just leave them at the town office. So there's no drop place for them right now, currently, that I'm aware of. Are you? When? Yeah. And I think we had talked about putting some out in the water bills in November. I'm not sure we're still doing that. Yes, you did. And so anyway, so for people at home, yeah, there's other people at home. For Julie, the only person at home is, but people in the audience, they're Bethel Fraul. This is a postcard that's going out to help with the accessibility ages eight to 80. So there's a couple here. We're looking for people to fill in this statement. I want blank in Bethel Village, whether you want more accessibility, you want to see more trees, you want more pedestrian crossing signs. You want, you know, some people will write something like I want Bethel to be more affordable. Well, be a little more specific, you know? I mean, that's a thing, you know? We all want Bethel to be more affordable, but if there's something there, it's nice if it's something we can understand or a goal that we really can read something into. So these are, I think, in businesses, they're supposed to be in businesses around town. And so people that stop by could pick them up and either leave them there or drop them off at the town office. Anything else to come before the board? One other question. So I know that Tatro painted the parking on one side of the road. Is there a chance of painting the parking on the other side of the road? Not right now, no. They were, that was in their contract. They were to do one side of the road. And it took us a while to get there because they were looking for paint. They had a shortage, so not alone, other towns in the state, it is not going to happen. No, they did what was in their contract. So are we going to do it? No, but I did talk to Alan. I have agreement now that the crosswalks, everything will be painted twice a year, before Memorial Day and before Labor Day. And that's the reminiscence, the winter, to get us sprayer fixed. But that was actually his suggestion, and I said it's a good one. So no, the other side's not going to get done. Sorry. We'd hoped. Not to mention you probably won't even get it done now, even if you wanted to. Well, I figured it might be too late, but just do you know that it happens in spring? At least they did the crosswalks. I mean, we got the bigger stuff on our side. But I had hoped we could maybe make a deal with them at the last minute. Well, even right now with all non-essential roads are not getting paint right now in Vermont, because Vermont is saying there's a paint shortage, and so they're dictating which jobs get paint which they're doing right now, because it's gotten so bad. It's true. I had to submit RAs, and they were like, hmm, we'll see. There's a lot of, like the statewide markings that you just see that they normally come through, they didn't even start doing those until a few weeks ago, because there's just no paint out there. So, yep. Or there's paint, but there's one of the additives to the paint isn't available right now. Did you all see that the graffiti got painted though? Yeah, look nice. Do you know how many years that took? Yes, I do. But it's finally done. We did it. The road crew did it after we made, we had, at midway under the, yeah. No, no, that does not happen. We did it legitimately. In between trains. Yeah, after striking a deal, basically, we ended up going to the state. Don't ask, it's just done. We went to the state because it was going to cost us several thousand dollars if we went through the railroad to take a class to permit to do this, to do that, and we finally went to the state. They reached out to somebody at the railroad, and they agreed that they could, quote unquote, make it happen so that they were doing maintenance in our area so that we could paint it, because without that there was a list of things with a big price tag. I'm not gonna pay you five grand to go over something. I told Alan, I said, leave a sticky note. So at least it says we like landscapes or something so. No, please get a permit. Yeah. Leave a note right now. No tagging unless you have a permit. Yeah, so they were, yeah, so no, so they actually did it a month ago? Yeah, I don't know when it was, but a couple of weeks ago I was like. I was working with them. Whoa, that's nice. Some folks go down there and look good. It was Ford Festival when I noticed it. Yeah, it was done before that, so it was almost an act of Congress, but at least now we know the right people to call at the railroad so that they can schedule maintenance because they're very clear on what they're gonna let you do near the railroad. Anything else to come before the board? What'd you say? Needles to board. Yeah, I know. It's follow-up rules. Just need a motion to adjourn. All right, win landing. Thank you.