 A big theme today was people and peat because sometimes we look at peat as just an ecosystem for biodiversity or conservation aspect. What about the people on it? Tell me about the connection. Okay, yeah, that's exactly what the session was about. It's about the other relevance of peatland in Indonesia, especially in Indonesia. We have a large peatland area of 15 million hectares and some of them, perhaps I can quote some of the literature saying that between 10 to 25 percent have been occupied by local people, by communities and it has happened since 1970, so it's been like 40, 50 years. So the relevance of people in the peat ecosystem is very high and I think that is why it has to be part of the equation in dealing with the most recent emerging issues of conservation and sustainability. Do you think this connection sometimes is overlooked? I think, yeah, well, actually before the big fire event of 2015, it was not in the radar, in the discussion of sustainability of peatland discussion radar. So it used to be overlooked, but it survived, you know, I mean, these local people, they managed the land in a small-scale fashion, they managed to plan some, you know, commodities and sustain livelihoods, but they also had problems and it was sort of overlooked, although in other, on the other side, they survived their way, yeah. So but, you know, towards recently after this becomes a massive issues of fire and then of utilization by large scale, for example, the intersections or sort of the links came up. And you know, this 2015 environmental crisis, fire and haze in Indonesia was really a big event and it became a local issue that became projected on national, even international scale. How did that incident and this crisis change policy in Indonesia towards peatland management and also did it wake up communities or change communities' actions? It definitely, you know, woke people up, sorry, I mean, the policy makers up. So, of course, you know, our presidents sort of established the peatland resolution agency and I think what has been the progress so far compared to what happened before 2015 is also the fact that many actors, stakeholders, they try to have the willingness to cooperate, yeah. Some obstacles are still there, but policies have been established, but especially the policies are mostly for the protection, for the rehabilitation, for the restoration. But not so much, perhaps I actually now talk about the challenge already, not so much policies that are aligned with the livelihoods of the local people, but at least, you know, people join forces. Can you touch on this slightly? There are some challenges in terms of integrating livelihoods into the equation. Can you expand a bit on that? In terms of practices, there have been good practices, yes, but making it sustainable for the livelihoods to continue, you know, it needs a list of enabling conditions like market, like certain policies to ask private sectors to involve, for example, to be committed, you know, and different actors and those are still challenging at this point in time, I think. At the small scale level, I think they survive, you know, but then if these small scale people have to comply with restoration approaches like rewetting, re-vegetation, polydiculture approach, there need to be other enablers or other enabling conditions for them to also sustain. You know, so that's, yeah, I think that's still, it shows some progress, but there's still bottlenecks. What do you think is the next step in terms of research into the connection between livelihoods and peat, whether your own research or for policymakers and other scientists? Yeah. Well, I think there are a whole long list of, you know, potential research for that. But one thing is indeed to see which species that can be incorporated in which type of restoration and how they can be sort of domesticated and adopted by farmers, not only from the biophysical perspectives but as well as from the livelihoods, markets, you know, this type of economic return perspectives. I think that type of research and assessments that produce concrete recommendation based on lessons learned, but then to be applicable for larger audience, for upscaling to different contexts, I think that would be really needed and, yeah, hopefully the research communities respond to that type of needs. Thank you so much for your time today. Okay, thank you so much.