 these are exciting times and it turns out that what we're doing right now is like what everybody's gonna be doing for the indefinite future. Man I owned a lot of Zoom stock and wow did it freak it's been too great. Well done. Is there maybe you were gonna say something? I'm always gonna say something. I know I know you look like you were just on that moment. Probably. By the way, regarding the markets, fire. Fire. Fire? They're on fire. Everything is okay. Fire. Fire. Get the hell out of the building. Get the hell out of the markets. It's okay. Like is this a moment to go to cash? Just like. Yes. And gold. All right. Oh and I'm not being as doomed as this. The reason I want to go in the gold is because the dollar's falling. Yeah. A lot. When Oakley did that thing, buy-buy dollar. Like this is the end of the Imperium's dollar. It's really steady. That's okay. That's a different conversation but let me let me just say that this is the Rex monthly check and call for March. What the hell day is it today? Wednesday March. Wednesday March 11th 2020. I don't know how we got there. And I have a poem for us titled Choices by Nicky Giovanni and it goes like this. If I can't do what I want to do then my job is to not do what I don't want to do. It's not the same thing but it's the best I can do. If I can't have what I want then my job is to want what I've got and be satisfied that at least there's something more to want. Since I can't go where I need to go then I must go where the signs point. Though always understanding parallel movement isn't lateral. When I can't express what I really feel I practice feeling what I can express and none of it is equal. I know but that's why mankind alone among the animals learns to cry. Yeah. Zoom video is up 3.8 today in the down market. Oh God. Yeah if you had sold everything and only bought Zoom you'd be doing great. Yeah. And it's been up seven percent some days. Yeah. So what you're saying what you're saying Bo is that while Jerry was reading his very meaningful and deep felt poem you were looking at the stock market. Something like that. Yeah. Maybe I'm an addict. The green one. Yeah. The green one. The green one is Zoom. That's very funny. And if you guys want me to talk about I've been just I've been reading I've probably read a hundred hours last week. And though I know that's not unusual for me I've actually switched from Hegel a little bit to more of the stock market. So I think you know I wasn't worried until the bond market crashed. The bond market is actually a much better signal of the economy than the stock market is. So you're saying gold gold is the only safe thing right now or are there other harbors. Oh you know cash is fine. It's just if you want a productive asset have 5% gold 3 to 5% cigarette packs. Yeah. I'm not talking about doomsday preppercraft because I'm talking about investment because remember I think gold in a real doomsday prepper situation will probably just get you killed A and B. You can't eat gold. Yeah exactly. I mean you can't eat it. So it's about the dollar going down. And what I think part of what's behind what rushes in this conflict in OPEC which by the way OPEC's dead too. I need to put that on Twitter but that day that happened. That's the end of OPEC. I mean the shell may remain but its power is over. The other powers been over a while. Yeah. Realistically. Yeah. We're definitely calling it on a body that's a little bit of a corpse for a while. It's been moldering. But I think that another thing behind this actually doesn't isn't key to my thesis but I think Russia you know Russia really wants to destroy the dollar because this you know petro dollar thing this having to do every transaction the dollars worldwide. Yeah. It gives the America a great deal of power. We can essentially mess with anybody. And I've been wondering years ago I was wondering why China didn't just stop buying our T-bills. Like like if they decided tomorrow to just not buy up all the T-bills we'd be screwed. But then they'd be screwed too. But they're screwed right but they're screwed right now anyway. So why not take advantage of the moment I don't know. They screwed themselves. But foreigners have already been retreated from the charging market already for quite some time. Yeah. So this conversation is why men alone among the animals knows how to cry. Which isn't true by the way. Darn it. Who else cries? Bonobos chimps. Bonobos I think. All right. Damn it. They're all so close to us. We don't even realize it. Oh no. Come on. We're special Jerry. We're special. Yeah. Alone among the animals we can ruin the planet. So the stock the bond market is really calling it and that when the bond markets went down that below 1% thing. So why is the bond market a better measure than the stock market? Because the stock market is more prone to bubbles and the stock and the bond markets rate of return is a very great measure, good measure of the expected rate of return on the economy. And when that rate of return gets below 1% that's a prediction about the economy. Yeah. The German benchmark is like negative 1%. Yes. Many countries have been in negative interest rate territory for a while. Japan, you know, almost us. We've been an outlier. Our stock market's been doing great. You know, yes. Negative interest rates in Europe and in Japan. Come on. Japan hasn't come back since when the market went down a long time ago. In fact, economists stale at night worrying about us catching the Japanese disease. Anyway, so yeah. I think the buy and hold thing is not exactly and I don't really give advice. I'll just tell you what I'm doing. I was liquidating like crazy yesterday. And I think that it's gonna, it's a wiggle on up days. I'll just be selling more. I'd say like an 80% probability that the the bull market is over. And it's felt like I've been dancing on a bubble for a while anyway. I've been living a greater fool theory. And but you know, and I'm saying this when I know that we have a president who will do anything to make sure this economy just go down. Look for him to look for him to sell his children now because we'll do anything. Yeah. But this is, I've been reading a lot of Ray Dalio and it's not a dummy. Yeah, it's not a dummy. It's degree in my economics study for ever since the 80s. You know, academic and otherwise. I've been reading, I bought this, you know, debt book and I just been reading it like a nut. And it's really good stuff. That guy, this is not bull. This is like, hmm, this is excellent. And the one he describes the way debt cycles work, we're, that's one of the reasons interest rates have to go so low. We have to like pay off the debt and the way to do that is to cheapen the currency. And it's always worked that way. And another way that currency is being cheapened is, you know, the strong dollar. The strong dollar. Are you a fan of MMT? Because I find MMT to be crazy making. MMT for everybody is modern monetary theory. And it basically says, as far as I understand it, I'm an amateur here, that debt doesn't matter. Really doesn't matter. What matters is sort of keeping the economy going, everything else. So just forget about the deficit. Well, you know, I love the way to read down that talks about debt. So MMT, most of us are, what we're, we're okay with it, because actually that's the government did it in World War Two. World War Two is a little special, I will say. And, but what we worry about is it gives carp lost to politicians. Yes, exactly. MMT is the perfect way to say, it lets you like triple the military budget and not worry about it. Like insane. Yeah, so you would find, we have comms just sitting there in the corner like, yeah, you'd get away with it a long time. But the kind of society you're going to build is going to be frightening. The risk of MMT is that it's a moral hazard. Correct. Yeah, absolutely. You got it. Well, I mean, it's funny because as you know, if you've watched The Big Shorter, read the book, both of which I recommend, you know, the instruments that everybody was investing in were crazy making instruments. And so the explosion was predictable if you've been sort of sniffing the air as the six or eight people that that a profile in the books kind of did. But, but I'll just note that the market exploded, things went way down. And if you had bought at that low, they just went chugga chugga chugga chugga chugga chugga chugga chugga work, work their way back up to right now to the peak that that you know, that is being popped right now. But, but there was this brief interim where, where things went down and they were cheap to buy. And I, you know, I wish I'd sold everything and just bought Amazon at that low. That would have been great. Would have been pretty useful. But who does and who thinks that, you know, who thinks about these things? But, but the cycles are that the crashes are short and sharp and the booms tend, I think to be longer. The danger is like this horrible Japan situation where you have stagnation. We had, we had briefly stagflation, right? Or we sort of couldn't, couldn't get out from under inflation plus no growth, broke that Reagan sort of breaks that. But I don't know. I'm interested in whether we're catalyzing our way into a really different scenario. So first of all, this thing about buying low, I'm really glad everyone else has that orthodox here right now and I'm fully going to take advance if you're not eating. It can take you up to 10 to 12 years or longer to get your money back and whatever you may think how strong your fortitude is, when your portfolio is down 50% and you've got to wait, you can end up waiting almost two decades. So be careful about that. Can I ask a question? Cause I don't want to, if the group wants to talk about personal stock investment strategies, I'll check out, I'll go somewhere else. That's not why I got on the call today. I, you know, not everybody plays the market in any serious way. So no disrespect intended, but I'm happy to pull out or, you know, steer the conversation. No, we're not going to keep going on my office. And I was, and I was happy. I was letting this play out a little bit because it's like pent up, but I would love to go to other topics like how we're, how everybody's dealing with coronavirus and whatever else. This is a second call. This was before we got an absolute dread. Yeah. Yeah. This is the happy part of the conversation. So as Jamay, it may amuse you that I was in a conversation maybe a month ago with a woman and she said, you know, you'd be a good doomsayer. And the doomsaying is kind of sexy these days. I'm like, oh, Jamay, right. Good point. And so, and so I bought the domain, thedoomslayer.com. Yeah. So, so I think I'm going to do a little bit of, of like video or something or other as the doomslayer and see how that feels. But, but I just got off a call this morning. This is, this is me by way of checking in. I just got off a call this morning with a couple people that I may be doing more stuff with that made me realize that my, probably my big umbrella is open global mind, which is always been my own sort of code name for what's after the brain. Like the brain is a proprietary tool. I'm their lead user and their most frustrated user. I've been envisioning like how could we make sense of the world together? You know, what would be marginally one millimeter more difficult than Pinterest and Instagram and Snapchat that would let us express what we believe to each other and have better, you know, make more sense of the world together. And that was for quite a while, mostly a techie vision of some, some new app or suite of apps or platform for apps or whatever. But I then realized recently that really it's all about norms and social change and the conversation I just got off was, was about all of that and more and felt really, really, really aligning and good for me. So I need to chew on that and sort of put it in motion. But I think that maybe for me, for a while, the tent, the big tent for what everything I want to do is called open global mind. And it's, it's sort of a convening place. So you can also expect invites to, to join stuff that sounds like open global mind. And I like the language partly because it's about being open minded. It's about acting openly. It's sort of global. It's got a whole bunch of virtues that I, that I like. Ken Homer pointed out that global sounds like globalization or globalism. And he prefers planetary. And I don't know, open planetary mind doesn't roll off my tongue very well. So that was an interesting, interesting bit of feedback. Hey, Susan and SD, we think is on the call, but we don't see or hear her. She's muted, but is there anyway. So that by way of very brief check-in for me. There's that thing. Hi, SD. So why don't we actually do a little, a little check-in, just go around and see where we are. And then we can go into coronavirus or whatever else who would like to jump in next. I'm happy to jump in. Hi, Mika Sifri, working for my home office in Hastings on Hudson in New York. I'm the co-founder of Civic Hall, which is a five year old collaborative community center in Manhattan dedicated to the use of tech, the public good. And so my check-in is we just decided in consultation with our staff that we would close our physical space starting tomorrow night for at least the next two weeks, cancel all face-to-face events. Our staff is going to work from home. We're going to, the good news is that the people whose jobs normally are to work with our members and, and, you know, support collaborative events and workshops and so on are leaning into learning more about how you can do that virtually and do it well. There seems to be a lot of pent up demand for that all of a sudden. And the bad news is that I live about, I think, four miles away from the containment zone that our very, very on the ball governor has announced around this synagogue in New Rochelle, which apparently is an epicenter of spread. I don't really understand any of the public authorities' behaviors or actions so far because they're, they're so sort of internally contradictory. But it's good that he's a man of action, I guess. So what the fuck? I'm seeing reports of National Guard being called out in New York. Have you heard that? Yeah, no, that's the containment. The idea is that they're creating a one mile radius around this synagogue because there have been such a cluster of cases. And so what they're trying to do is require people basically to avoid any large gathering. So schools are being closed, you know, big shopping centers, I think, are being closed. Though the places to get food and groceries, they say are open. They're also saying the National Guard is going to deliver food to people. No idea how that's going to work. But it's not a travel restriction. So you can get in and out. Yeah. And they're saying it's not like Milan or now all of it, it's not like China. They're not blocking the roads. They're just trying to discourage mass meetings and, you know, movement in and out. Yeah. So I would call this a half measure on the way to something more serious. The other thing that's going on here that's really interesting. My wife works at one of the City University of New York colleges. There are 23 of them and the students at these, you know, colleges are typically working class and immigrant and they are all freaking out because all the private schools are closing and they're like, what about us? Why aren't you taking care of us? So, you know, things are heating up and I and then the last thing is is that our stupid mayor seems to think that we should still have the St. Patrick's Day parade next week, which typically gets two million drunk people. I mean, I can't imagine that. We can just deliver green beer to people's homes instead. Yeah, exactly. Party at home, man. Come on. Here's a six pack of green beer. Go to it. Green beer. And then here's a punch in the nose. Yeah, since we sort of thought, yeah, something Micah said made me think of this, you know, at the discourse at a high level, as we know, it doesn't really helping much, but there's been a lot of talk about moving from saying we can no longer treat it, at least in terms of the metrics, in terms of contagion, because we can't follow it anymore. Right. And but the response of and and the and the next step, I guess, if it is one is to think in terms of mitigation, like are we going to take care of people who are sick? That being that being the place to put our energies and that being a very local, a local need. So all this energy that's going into shutting things down is going to flip the economy into complete chaos. And nobody's talking about that either. But I'd be interested to hear what, okay, Jerry, I'd be interested to hear what people think about that high level contagion versus mitigation thing and where is the discourse in the country if there is one and what implications for what to do are there if we can't. Yeah. Yeah. I'll say three quick things about that. One is the danger appears to be that we flood the health care system and therefore people can't actually get treatment because it looks like 10 to 20 percent of people need intensive treatment, intensive care. And I was just watching a video this morning. It's like, holy crap, that's what happens. So they actually do need gear and devices and treatment and so forth. There's a bunch of things that have to happen in a hospital for at least 10 percent of the cases, two percent of which are under two percent of which will probably die. So the best advice I've heard so far is let's flatten the curve, which means let's not create a spike of cases because a nihilistic friend of mine just yesterday said, let's just have a chicken pox party. Let's just get everybody together, like mingle a lot, we'll call the herd, like the people who are going to get it and die are just going to get it and die and then we're done. Then we all have like antibodies or immune. I'm like, oh, Jesus. But it was done with a bit of tongue and a bit of cheek. The guy who said that first is the guy who also kicked off the tea party. Yeah, pretty much. Oh, interesting, interesting. And then, and so flatten the curve basically means let's do social isolation and let's do a bunch of measures so that we can reduce the contagion rate so that we don't overwhelm the system. But the third thing I'll say, and then I'll step away, is that this appears to be headed to being an endemic disease as opposed to just a momentary pandemic. An endemic disease is anything that just becomes part of what everybody gets and has and we deal with. And then we wind up getting vaccines and treatment and all of that. But this becomes just like the seasonal flu. There'll be this, you know, the seasonal coronavirus will be there as well. If, in fact, the thing is seasonal. Yeah, but this, this, I mean, the university is shutting down. I mean, Harvard just shut down for the rest of the year, for instance. And Stanford's following suit, I guess. And when you think of the, okay, well, maybe this is a question for both. So when I think about this, I start to think, Oh, my God, think of the imbalance between the rich and the poor, that whole thing. And we have 44% of the people living hand to mouth in this country. And if they can't work, which many of them will not, because everything that they do is being shut down. And I'm not, I'm exaggerating, but what would should, what are the alternative things that we should be doing about that? So our big, big, big problem is this charging for testing it? That next problem, people can't stay home. Like there's something like 12 states actually have like you get sick leave. The rest don't. Most of these Americans have three days of sick leave. And believe me, you're right, Susan, the economists, the financial times, that's all we're talking about is my God, how can we mitigate when these people don't have the money to do it? And so that, you know, the, and it's going to be very soon, right? Ironically, the moment when Bernie, it looks like Bernie needs to drop out of the race is the moment we need Medicare for all, et cetera, because everything goes to getting it go up without Bernie in the race. Yes. Oh, really? Yeah. Please repeat that. The odds of us getting this go getting Medicare for all go up without Bernie in the race. That's true. And why don't we stop using that word? What? Which were great. All Medicare for all. Which one? Yeah. So as far as economic growth this year, I'm not going to be much of it. And I don't think anyone's actually even concerned that much. And I hope everyone really understands what the Chinese did. It wasn't just locking down a city. They tested, tested, tested, isolated, tested, tested, tested, isolated. And it's just, it's embarrassing that the CDC's first test didn't even work. Yeah. I mean, wow. And then they then they said they couldn't. Well, we've been even decimating all these services, haven't we? Yes. Nobody, nobody respects expertise. So the pandemic emergency group was shut down by Trump. Yeah, about six months ago. So just to ask, is there anyone thought that this might happen? Of course not. Well, Obama thought it might happen. So that's a bad thing. Well, the people who did the simulation of District 201 or whatever it's called or Event 201, where they pretty much simulated what's happening today right now. Transmissible disease in a simulation a couple of years ago. Let me ask. Does this spiraling downward doom Trump's reelection? Yes. Yes. Because people vote their people because because people vote their pocketbooks or because people will discover that, oh, damn, we actually needed the health care system that is crazy because half those voters are going to die off. Oh, good. Remember, Susan, you missed it. I think the economy is fairly weakened and the bond market has signaled that we're going to go into a recession highly likely. And that is not going to be good for Mr. Trump's election. Be very bad. And it will go fast enough. This is gone really fast. Does it count if it's not if there's no election? Hey, Todd. Yeah, there might not be one. That's true. Well, imagine imagine a Trump campaign with no rallies. No, but he's going out and shaking hands with everybody. Well, we can only hope. Yeah, he's probably going to get sick as well, Mike Biden and, you know, yeah, house. Yeah. Let's see. What is the most vulnerable age segment? Oh, right. People run for office. Oh, white guys. That's. Oh, like guys running. That's it. I think it sticks members of Congress of quarantining. It's not funny. Yeah. And you. You. So we were doing a brief check in and we made it as far as Mika. Anybody else want to go? Me and Mika and I both went. Who else would like to jump in just like where are you and what's up for you and how is all this affecting you? Well, I'll jump in. I'm still at home. I work at home. So this is actually in terms of my day to day life. Hasn't really been a big, a big modification. Janice works at UC Berkeley in the biosciences library, appropriately enough. And UC Berkeley has has not shut down, but has converted to all classes that can be virtual in any way, now or now virtual. There are some labs and any kind of athletics that's still done in person with some modification. But they're now talking about essentially shutting the libraries down to students, but the library staff will still have to come in. So, well, there's not a lot of stuff you can do as a library worker. And there's remotely and there's a lot of stuff they can get done and they don't have the detail with students at the same time. So she's not entirely miffed at that. And the commutes a lot better now. Yeah, one of the one of the benefits of the apocalypse, the commute, the commute is great. The parking is so easy now. Yeah, exactly. I think the only difference is that it's given a kind of a more of a biological twist to my to my apocalyptic conversations. You know, I'm not. And what can be wrong about that? Oh, no. Everyone needs a little biology now and then. Yeah. No, it's just for me, it's been kind of fascinating watching a scenario play out. You may, Jerry, you may remember that in 2008 IFTF did something called Superstruct. I love that. It was Jane McGonigal's design game. It was brilliant. Jane McGonigal and me. Oh, that's right. I wrote the scenarios for it and yeah. So and it was all about a global pandemic called we called it Reds respiratory distress syndrome. Exactly. And it was a high point for IFTF, I think. Yeah. You know, Jane's talking about doing a new one, which is, you know, obviously good. But it's something that you you mentioned other people doing workshop and scenarios about pandemic. This is something we have been thinking about. And so when I say it's a scenario playing out, I'm not being entirely facetious. Yeah. Facetious, really. But one of the things about scenario thinking is it's always about looking down the road of what happens if what happens next and how do these things combine. You know, so that's where I get worried about things like election election delays. And at the same time, recognizing that there's a there remains a the deep state such as it is the the permanent the permanent state remains and will not there's a strong resistance to the idea of the idea of the idea of making kind of major changes non-constitutional changes within the government itself. So this actually when I talk about the idea of an effort to delay the election, what that's talking about is the potential for an internal war within the government. Oh, wow. Yeah, internal war within the military. And I learned recently that actually the president, despite being commander-in-chief, cannot fire a general. What? Actually, it's he can reassign a general. Really? But it's actually the house representatives has the authority to hire and fire generals. I did not know that. Okay. So I was before I have to double check that, but that's always formed by somebody I usually trust for these kinds of things. Interesting. And so, you know, the Trump reassigning generals that have been the joint chiefs and have been the leaders of major bases there is a trying to bring in the loyalists. There's a real potential for an internal conflict. Yeah. Hopefully just administrative and, you know, strongly worded the entire breadth of government in the US. And that's kind of terrifying. Well, it's so I guess my question is something like the military used to do tremendous planning and tremendous scenario. You know, very, very, very big, big things. Where are they on things like this? Like an endemic or pandemic situation like this? Anybody know? I don't know for certain. I do know that a lot of the scenario and wargaming work around the military. And I think that's something that's been around. Controversial topics has been have been shut down. Yeah. Things like gave me out. Climate change related stuff, for example. I'm not I'm not up to speed on what the military is thinking now, but I've occasionally been through different projects and from my experience, military intelligence, take that phrase for whatever you want it to be goes up and down to really brilliant things. And they're like completely on top of their game. And sometimes they're stupid like rocks. And so one example of this is a John Boyd, one of my favorite military minds who was who invented the OODA loop and a bunch of other stuff. And is the reason we invented the F-16 jet fighter, which is basically a rocket with a human sitting on top. And what we have now in the raptor like the F-22 and the F-35 Boyd must be spinning in his grave because these are stupid, expensive aircraft like insanely expensive aircraft. And Jermaine may have a different, I'm interested in your opinion on these things because they seem as non-Boyd as I can imagine, like vertical takeoff seriously. Yeah. There is, they're too expensive to be to be useful in an actual conflict because you can't, you don't want to lose that much money by having one blown out of the sky. And as we learned got in the Balkan, in the Balkan intervention, just because it still doesn't mean it's invisible. Right. Right. So, and we're digressing from a check-in round, but I just want to say that the military occasionally is brilliant and occasionally is dumb like rocks. Small thing, at the beginning of World War II the US military is almost worthless. It's terrible. It's completely hierarchical and blind like a blind animal. And the German military that Hitler inherits is one of the world's best militaries ever. Like, like the reconstituted German military after World War I is very, very, very intelligent. And so he gets, he picks up brilliant military minds. Anyway, let's go back to the check-in round already in progress. Esti, we see your silhouette. You've adopted a very generic kind of shape. Yes, I've decided to experiment with perhaps being genderless. Oh, I like it. It is kind of a gender fluid avatar. Good point. Gender fluid visual. Yes. That and the fact that I'm in PJs and etc. I think some of the, you know, I can echo a few things. One is Micah, I think, I want to talk about the real, what we're really learning about social systems in this regard and realizing that you're in New York and in that whole area. So I'm posting that I want to hear us on that. Like Jermay, my life hasn't changed all that much, except that I believe that I'm in the highest risk group. And what I'm hearing from, because of underlying, because my mom smoked like a fiend, prenatal and for the first eight years of my life, so it's, it's interesting. And what I'm hearing is that those who get sick, get really sick, really quick about two weeks post, up to two weeks post infection. So it's, it's interesting. Nothing's happened. I think two weeks from now we're going to be in an entirely different shit show. Right. Certainly in the Bay Area, Seattle, where my son lives and in New York, in Virens, right? And we don't even know what's coming. And then I would just point out that a lot of what we've been quote, discovering, it's really about viruses is the way viruses are. And before this particular virus showed up, the whole fear of novel coronaviruses is that there is no immunity. And, and so it has to, it will go everywhere and, and etc. So bottom line, I feel like we are seeing in the starkest possible terms the effect of the idiot in chief in, in office. So I can't, I, I feel like I and several other people, including the doctor with whom I had an appointment yesterday, I don't know how many of you are going to be out. Don't worry, I'll you see really how these things will generally lose all faith in our system if he gets real. Because yeah, anyway, so that's since we're doing views of the situation. Those are mine. And I will kick off synagogue in New York happens to be a modern Orthodox synagogue. I happened to be at Shabbat dinner last Friday with a family that belongs to the Palo Alto modern Orthodox synagogue. Mostly people I didn't know but at the table there were 20 people which included a bunch of kids. One was like went to high school with the patient zero in that community and you know two others etc and the point is a dinner for 20 right and and these things happen this is a community that actually is a community of this sort that many of us in this group have become infamous for promoting right or and and anyway so we're seeing we're we're revealing a lot of social patterns not just return to zoom right and so all that's interesting period carers return new paragraph I can say that to this group right with the appropriate clunky noises then you get into you know people being terrified of Asians and other forms of ethnic objection oh and there there's just so much on the table here it's really like like this conversation is turning over stuff that I hadn't quite thought about for example as you were talking the pandemic everybody is going back to to compare this one to is the 1918 Spanish flu which was pretty lethal partly because it was very contagious blah blah blah blah however I read an article a couple days ago where it was listing sort of ancient pandemics and different kinds of things and it included something that I had I knew about but what mentally I was not including it in that list which is when Europeans hit north and south america and when europeans hit australia the the native populations by some estimates are reduced by 80 or 90 percent exactly 90 percent 80 or 90 percent die off of low of indigenous americans and indigenous australians which is worse than the spanish flu by a lot worse than the bubonic plague bubonic plague gets rid of a third of europeans and there's a really nice book the years of rice and salt in which the premise is what if the bubonic plague had killed off all europeans then then leaving only asia islam et cetera an interesting piece of science fiction by kim sanley robinson um anyway I had never mentally put but do we know that there wasn't plague all over the world I don't know I don't know how far it reached I haven't come back but but I'm just saying that I had not put those particular biological incidents in the same list as these influences this is immunology right 101 right and and so really what we're dealing with here is an ignorance and a denial of biologic fundamental physiology right equivalent to the denial of climate science I mean there isn't there there isn't anything surprising in what's what's happening here except the complete unpreparedness of and lack of lack of belief or agreement or cooperation among multiple parties so lack of imagination to that end a question what will I would disagree because dismantling the preparedness put in place right which happened as far as I'm told the dismantling of the federal ecosystem happened three years ago as trump came in right that's uh people knew and there were you know issues of how how the US economy hopes with economic fallout right aside right the fundamental what what will happen what does it mean how do you prepare for it has been known for actually for decades there's not even right you don't even need 21st century immunology right to immune science to understand what's going on here and yet we're just beginning you know I don't know how many people saw the curve of delaying incidents versus allowing it to right rise yeah right the fact that it took someone I mean it's lovely took someone drawing that curve right to everybody going all the educated people I know including my kids going of course now I get it right yeah this happened last week right um I'm sorry so may you we're going to jump in there I was just wondering what the anti-vax movement how how that group is going to respond are they doing if and when and the vaccine becomes available a year out year and a half out from now uh will the anti-vaxers refuse it or will because of the threat you know the evident threat of that is of COVID will they essentially hand wave away and say well this is this one is okay right um conversant what should what should our policies be should we say should we take advantage of that and say only people who have demonstrated a willingness to get vaccinations previously right um get they get first first pass at the COVID vaccination you're reminding me of that that tweet that went around virally from the Flat Earth Society saying blankly blank is a global phenomenon and somebody had circled global and said aha see yes and I think one of the the outcomes that could have could happen also as long as we're talking about those is the um is the fact that the virus itself could mutate yes and and and become more or less innocuous in some places um in which case and if that happens before November well yeah I had not been contemplating the idea that the November election might be postponed that had not entered my brain yet and that scares me a bit like oh crap you're right there could be a civil war within the government and a civil war all over this country or we say or we say uh congress uh mandate vote by mail now uh the existing frameworks exist in every state to do it because we already deliver absentee ballots to people who request them so Oregon is a vote by mail state I love it yeah no problem with it so the answer to that problem is move to vote by mail um this is not a hard one love that thank you it is if you don't want to if you want to make sure that the vote is limited to people that only the people that you want to vote oh sure except well there is that protecting hey Dave yeah sorry um preventing certain groups from voting has been part of the republican um we have traditions for years this is america um we're slowly making our way through a check out check in round use your legitimacy if you don't have an election you don't think they still want even if it's an elect they want an election that they know they're gonna win not the failure to have an election at all yeah that's true um but but I don't know that they're I think I think Trump is ballsy enough to slip into the limbo land of we're postponing the election I think he's that's that's that's a that's the thing he's perfectly happy to do yeah although I agree with what you just said but I mean everybody heard the term illiberal democracy yeah so we think we live in a liberal democracy illiberal democracy looks like democracy smells like it but in fact is not a functional democracy because elections in Russia right great exactly because the north korea has elections exactly uh and they have judicial systems and they have the press it's just that none of them are actually functioning the way they're supposed to uh who else would like to check in please susan I would like to I'll try to make a choice um yes well in a in a um in a fit of civic um something or rather I I signed up to be an enumerator in the census excellent and um and then I thought oh my god I probably should write about that as that i'm doing it but I think it's it's a very interesting time to be doing it um is it actually going to happen are you going to be walking door to door because given coronavirus are they gonna is it going to dent the census I don't know I don't know I mean they have to be thinking about it and it will be interesting right for sure so I mean they have moved to get try to get everybody as many people as possible to do it online yep and only go see those people who haven't and um I have digital security digital security people are terrified by that yeah yeah this is a it's a weird moment and um well it wouldn't make voting any easier either would it so um anyway I just wanted to say I did that so um and um the other thing is I have been following this whole thing for a couple of years on conversation conversational interfaces for lack of a better term and or conversational informed as I would say interface design um and wanting it to become more informed by the by all of the work that's going on in all the various disciplines um and suddenly in the world I'm thinking well is this really important to do now I think that's the kind of reaction it's so strong what's going on that one has to ask oneself you know where do I put my energies in my time yeah the um anyway so I had had uncovered and have been invited to join something called seed token.io or seed itself which is a startup which I think since they well never mind I won't tell you what I think um as to build a community of people who would would actually sort of host that kind of information and have those kinds of conversation because it really is being kind of run by techies it's a it's a open source open source kind of an effort to to collect up the various um bots in particular that people are designing and to try to you know build it it's everything in one bucket build a blockchain setting so tokens things people will exchange tokens blah blah blah and and I can understand how it's supposed to work but it's unclear to me that they have a value proposition for the people who the people are actually writing these things which is what they desperately need then so um I just wanted to put that out on the table but it's an interesting play and and absolutely worthwhile to try so I can keep you posted would love to would love to know more about that over time sounds really interesting I'll go look okay and uh the other thing is well that's it I mean I have I have uh a woman here who's from originally from Russia so she's known to my Russian renters and she's um I'm learning a lot from these people I have to tell you um and it's like I don't have to travel it's a world comes to me that's nice it is it really is true so uh anyway we have a young woman who is stranded here had come back from China where she was working to marry her husband who was uh who's Austrian but lives in Canada and she's Russian and then got stuck because she couldn't go back to China and so she's here um and uh you know life goes on somehow life goes on it's like um Shakespeare in love is one of my favorite movies and when the owner of the globe is caught you know has his feet over the coals or whatever and he's asked like what's how's it gonna work I don't know it's a miracle yeah somehow it happens the show goes on uh Todd Dave bow want to check in oh yeah yo hey Todd check in man it's been a long time yeah all right yeah I'll do it I was supposed to be traveling right now I didn't think I would be on this call this afternoon but as has been happening everything is getting canceled left and right um so it's it's an interesting predicament um because on one hand I feel the the social distancing can actually create more intimacy uh we're in this together um people seem to be reaching out with need to connect uh people are looking for community for security right now and a lot of people I know uh including myself are wondering huh could our income look like three or six months from now and so that is um you know from everything from my my daughter who waits tables at a high-end restaurant um to people who own their their own small business and perhaps a lot of that is is done in person or it's retail so that's been on my heart the other thing I'll mention but this group is after working for about six months with a small group officially launched a nonprofit last week called the fierce ability project and hopefully we'll have a website up here uh by tax day by April 15 and I I feel very strongly as as a you know I'm further left than progressives are and it comes back around to a an ability to suspend our points of view and have conversations and see the humanity in each other and so our hope is that with this nonprofit uh we're going to build alliances with other nonprofits that are also doing bridge building work and offer tools and experiences uh for people to see the humanity on the other side and some of you know having grown up in a republican family and having been a a college libertarian I just laugh when I think about all this uh and my own migration of my belief system over years uh I I can understand the principles on which real other belief systems exist what I don't have a tolerance for is uh despotic misdirection power grabs that it's not about principles whatsoever uh so that's that's the short of it for me here in in michigan where um you know we had our first two cases of COVID-19 declared overnight there's nothing in west michigan and its life is normal except I was at city hall to vote yesterday and I was at city hall this morning to protest a tax assessment and there's no handshaking going on anywhere uh so interesting that that even comes here into rural America in which you know we're we're far we're at least 200 200 miles from the nearest known liberal so what's your favorite alternative to handshaking yeah I've discovered that finger guns actually work really well finger guns I like it it's a little it's a little military but I like it yeah I've been doing jazz hands um the kids a little a little but yeah oh that's that's creative the kids um just watching the kids walk around town here they're doing the uh the ankle the hokey pokey they're doing the hokey pokey do they turn themselves around it's cute it's adorable at the dinner I mentioned everyone was already doing the Japanese bow namaste also yeah exactly with with hands yes either just about where the namaste is nice or there's the Ebola the Ebola elbow bump yeah it's kind of crazy times thank you Todd that's can you keep us informed and send us links when you do the Fierce Ability Project and all that that sounds awesome yeah yeah that sounds great uh Dave do you want to check in hi everybody I'm sorry I'm so late um it's my well that's my check-in is I've been spending a lot of time on David Hodgson's latest gig of the global regeneration co-lab and so you know it's like this whole coronavirus thing gets me I'm just like stay at home doing exactly what I've always done so it works perfectly for me um but uh you know it's really interesting to me to play with this idea like what does it mean to have a social network and you know is there a is there a network of networks and how does you know how do you make that work um that kind of an infrastructure layer but then also just exciting about to see people working on genuinely regenerative projects that have scale and potential and you know they're optimistic and you know so I'm spending a lot of my day on very very positive kinds of things that have a lot of uh you know it's like the world could look like that and it would be much better so uh so today's call was you know a guy that's trying to get funding for a project in Mexico that would take a you know a seaside desert and turn it into mangrove plantations and you know food forests and things it's like so yeah that would be better so yeah let's do that and that's fun fun working for these times so it's good work for these times yeah exactly that's lovely and the whole regenerative everything world I like how do we draw more attention to it how do we you know make people figure this out I was at uh visioneering last year Novemberish which is the X prizes annual conference where they basically they get a lot of wealthy people to go brainstorm how to save the world and create new X prizes then they get them to commit a bunch of money to fund those X prizes which is basically X prizes business model they like they live off off those funds it's pretty interesting but what really grabbed me was that the runner up project the one that I wish had won was totally about regenerative ag and it um I was part of the birth of that that particular idea but but it was um it got me thinking hard that regenerative ag fixes so many things right it has all these positive side effects that it should be on everybody's lips everybody should be out there trying to implement it wherever they can and they're not because the first thing that's going to happen is you're going to make enemies of the fertilizer and pesticide sales guy who's your neighbor uh you know downtown and all that kind of stuff but uh yeah the grazing the grazing people and the vegans are already having fights in the street so yeah awesome I thought we'd be able to avoid all the battles but it doesn't work that way it doesn't work that way yeah you know I did read I did read through Hirsch's book on political hobbyism and and I um you know totally self-identified as a hobbyist you know oh that's exactly what I do I'm totally useless in politics and follow it like a sport and then it's like you get to the end of the book and it's like he gives these recommendations it's like these are useless recommendations you know it's like he's kind of saying he's saying like we we watch we do politics like we're watching football and so we should actually go play he's like well maybe go play fucking football you know it's kind of like and if I did I'd be like water boy or something this is a lousy anyway so I that which led me to the idea that there must be some concept of regenerative politics that we need to inject in our system but you know he can't going to play the game as it's played today doesn't make sense so you have to change so so mika is there a regenerative politics politics dave sorry again i couldn't disagree with you more i think gaitan's book is excellent and the advice it gives which is to which is to organize locally uh and organize people which is the thing that's been hollowed out for the last couple of decades um is great advice and yeah but it doesn't suit me and I don't think I mean he was right that there's a group of people that are hobbyists but telling them they shouldn't be hobbyists isn't enough actually a bigger menu of political interventions in fairness to the book because I really like it I have a review of it coming out soon in the american prospect um he did a survey of americans uh in 2018 one third of whom said yeah I'm politically active and then when he asked them well how would you describe how you're politically active 80 of them said well I spend uh between an hour or two a day uh keeping up with the news and commenting and sharing about it and so what he is trying to say is that's not going to change anything if you're interested in change you actually have to be serious about organizing and having a strategy for winning power the people who are serious about winning power actually they've been doing that for the last couple of decades really well virtually and and I would argue Mika that that may be defined as hypothetically right that's extracted politics right it's non regenerative politics so what would regenerate the politics fine organize for that um the it's the these these two parties are uh pretty uh open for grabs as trump just showed us and Dave I love your question I think we can sort of go with that maybe in a future call but what would a regenerative politics look like because for me politics has become a consumer mass marketing exercise that's sort of all it is we consumerized it and and and when I talk about this I usually talk about big g government and small g governance and big g government has become politics it's become very politically driven and it's it's again a consumerized game little g governance is maybe maybe what you're talking about about regenerative politics so for me regenerative politics is an oxymoron but regenerative governance is what I wish we all were doing which is a polycentric governance at all you know devolving power as close to commons as possible blah blah blah blah and I'm not even I haven't begun to think through what the implications of it are I would love to think through what the implications of that are I think and go ahead no no it's to say that one way of cutting through that knot is to recognize that what we call politics tends to be partisan disagreements or partisanship politics is the essentially the the practice of resolving disagreements or broadly you have you have limited resources limited limited set of power and you have multiple people who want that those resources or want that power the way the way in which you figure out how that gets shared or not that's politics yeah so maybe so maybe I need to maybe I need to add to my thesis what would a little p politics look like right but would not part what would non-partisan politics look like yeah well in the regenerative world the thing that I get the most excited about is is you know negative sum versus positive sum or zero sum versus you feel like most of our politics is zero sum at best oh value capturing so it's it's a political structure trying to capture value how do you change that yeah I was just wanting to point out that sitting here where I do in between Silicon Valley and the ocean um I've been interested in watching the the local stuff play out and I mean hyper local right like you know the school in Halfman Bay and uh other other things around around the neighborhood as it were and fire fire prevention on your hill and fire prevention oh yeah oh god like that we're so we're getting very organized that this or this hyper local organization seems to me to be expanding quite rapidly and uh it's pretty much self organization and I I think some you know I don't know how we how we track it but my my sense is it's just gone up um and the level of discourse about well I really appreciated the COVID discourse on Jerry's retreat which seems to be one of that one of the more long lasting and more thoughtful ones that we've had um the but but here in you know where everybody things online and I do read all the little local little local rags that I can um and I'm hooked into two of the communities three of the communities here I just want to reiterate that it's it's people are talking about it you go into the grocery store the other day I was in the grocery store and there were people standing there looking at the the piles of you know hydrogen hydrogen peroxide and they say oh they're out of a sanitizer and then somebody says well we're supposed to make our own well how do you do that and it's just that and I'm not surprised that you know in western Michigan I'm not surprised that in western Michigan people are are not shaking hands I mean this stuff spreads even to even to the hinterlands very very quickly um it's small in small group theory or whatever it's called small world theory I guess like one person touching another group is like is enough to sort of include that group so so you only need you only need a little bit of and something that that incubates for a long time because if it immediately kills you it kills its host and you're done if it has a nice long incubation period where you can't tell somebody is contagious that is the worst possible kind of of of fiend of biological fiend to to encounter and this seems to be what we've got here well all the kids who are being sent home from college now yeah they're gonna yeah exactly take it back to back home vectors interesting and the republicans are 10 less likely to believe the public health authorities and democrats right now according to a poll they came out a few days ago right likely to wash their hands all that shit well you know that the this whole thing coronavirus is just impeachment part two right mm-hmm yeah there was a fox news host just said that you know i saw i saw the same articles really oh yes yeah one of the hosts on fox news said this is basically a liberal plot to impeach the you know if this is a follow-on from impeachment this is an attempt to remove donald trump that's what this is a lot of old white republicans are gonna die you know that sounds awful yeah let's come on everybody let's keep our humanity i'm trying to i'm struggling to hold back the tears i did not respond to that and i certainly thought of that exactly exactly uh um bo do you want to check in are you sort of checked into the start like you you you yeah but we weren't here um yeah i put some stuff in the chat um the the bond market going down uh the fed out of ammunition i think we have like an 80% likelihood that the that the recession is happening blah blah blah a lot of what i put in chat from rata fu fuhr f t just great article read that okay that will be my update for the economy uh this is this thing is sort of a perfect storm the way we've structured our health care system this is a perfect storm to improve how ineffective ineffectual and horrible this whole thing is uh the biggest thing i'm concerned about are all these gig workers all these service workers you wouldn't believe how many people are cashiers in america and the fact that most states don't even have a mandatory um sick leave i mean yes the perfect storm to hit us yeah the the health care systems of like france and britain are going to do great they're going to ask could is not going to be more apparent yeah i don't know about great bro i think they're not they're all i think they're all going to struggle look like look at idly right now um but still go ahead the italians are distinctly undisciplined individuals just put the whole fricking country um so i'm just reading uh i've philosophy as usual i'm into hegel right now the phenomenology of spirit so like david and james i'll be home i'm gonna looking out my window uh i'm very happy to be at portland i think we're at a great i love the i think this town can handle just about anything and we'll handle it well so much stability so much you know i maybe in portland but yeah this whole thing me too um quick poll uh one to five hold up fingers if you think that we're gonna be that most major cities will be in a lockdown pretty soon like five means yep definite one means no don't think so lockdown means uh companies uh all companies can't convene uh all meetings are canceled schools are closed and people are encouraged to stay home but not enforced like you can still go shopping yeah encourage but not enforced yeah exactly that that's my definition of lockdown so and pretty soon means next couple months san francisco already there i don't know so santa claire just did it yesterday yeah how many fingers are you holding up yours too close to the camera is that four or five santa claire did it susan really five five four five david are you holding your thumb out i don't see your thumb no thumb four good yeah well they did some version of it but it's it's fairly tight um and uh it forbade gatherings of more than some number of people um again voluntary but um what's interesting to me is the the governmental levels at which this is being decided the city's playing a big role yeah you can find in italy uh that so it's it's different there it's actually much more mandatory yeah yeah by the way from an economic perspective like tomorrow we should be telling businesses oh yeah if you don't have the money for for sick leave yet we're going to cover that uh tomorrow tests should be absolutely free tomorrow and this is not my opinion this is the economist the financial times i had the waltz journal i don't know but i mean this is what we're all just terrified about like yeah this our system is this perfect storm of i'm sorry you don't have the money for the test what yeah so this this really is going to show the flaws of our shareholder capitalism uh our health our for-profit health care and expertise you find odd little things poking up about um some football player did you see that it kind of went viral football player football uh coach who said look i'm not i'm i shouldn't be saying anything saying anything about the covid virus i'm not an expert i don't know you know why don't we ask them and it was like okay good so may you were gonna say something oh you know the the commentator farad manju just recently said a pandemic makes everyone a socialist well bernie must be in tears yeah the timing is terrible right yeah timing is terrible for him i look i i don't think bernie would have made a very good president but he's a terrific uh propagandist and um his ideas are way more popular now than he is so uh him getting out of the way will let those ideas actually yeah yeah he just announced he's not i literally in the last five minutes he announced he's not getting out of the way oh interesting yeah so mika what's what's what's your hunch on what the bernie's followers are going to do how does that play out because the worst possible fate is that the bernie people feel that they all feel jilted yet again that they feel that that the democratic party is against them in some organized way and that they all run over to trump yeah well can i just point out one thing there that the dynamics of inside and outside are far more powerful than democrat and republican and that's gonna drive that's gonna drive it yeah i'd be really worried if they actually voted pardon i'd be really worried about them voting for trump if they actually voted i think most apparently they don't most of them are vote for the democrat the same way that last time around most of them voted for the democrat i think the third party threat uh is going to be a lot smaller than it was jill stein or whoever the guy was who ran for the libertarians gary whatever um and i think that the democrats are going to be a hundred times smarter about investing in the swing states uh compared to what hillary did last time um so i i actually think uh you know and i think also biden uh and the people around him are the people around him are pretty smart um i would be surprised if they pick a tim kane you know another old white guy um and uh so i think that uh you know trump uh could win only because of those swing state problems that we we saw last time i saw the idea floated that michelle obama might be the deep which i would love which i would love that's not a serious idea no she's not well she said she's basically not in not into the idea at all not interested i would totally love that well she's the most sensible member of that administration yeah ain't gonna happen damn it but i i think the problem of the dissident you know the the angry bernie bro uh you know bernie or bust all of that shit uh most of it is going to be dwarfed by uh what's coming and the you know seeing the health care catastrophe yeah that's coming um and you know people are going you know a lot of people are going to grow up um in the next few months as they lose family members so i i don't you know i do think the demand for uh significant public health uh investments is going to rise dramatically um when even conservative members of congress say that we should be paying for free testing like that so that's why i say you know his he's not going to win but his ideas very well uh will um him getting out of the way would help yeah okay whenever burning even gets a sniffle the stock market just goes crazy and happiness they are terrified of burning yeah they are they are the smartest the only signal we should be watching here no i'm not saying that but yeah so is any is any of us of the point of view that this is just going to blow over in a couple weeks or a month and that we're all going to be like man everybody was really panicked does anybody think that there's a there's a likelihood that in a month this is all just out of our minds and uh just a bad blip and the market's back to chug chug chug i wouldn't rule it out i don't think it's very likely at all yeah but i i'm i try to be careful about making those kinds of definitive statements yeah me too me too i'm i'm trying not to freak out at all i have to say i'm really trying just not to freak out you look very calm bow your demeanor your external demeanor is working just fine go ahead i unfortunately have to jump on but so great to connect and jerry do this more often thank you thank you very much i'm glad to have you here and we're about to wrap we're 10 minutes away from from i got another call in 10 minutes and i gotta get ready for it go go go everybody be safe and and i didn't say that april is basically has been on the road for three weeks uh in asia of all places i don't know some of you follow her on facebook or whatever but she went to malaysia to give a talk in some workshops when this was starting uh then she went from there to uh singapore for a couple days from there to hanoi uh from there to the philippines and she just let she's just about to land in no she is landed in belgium uh so she's in brussels now we're going to visit the little company called next works that um she's done some speeches for uh they're very sweet and gint and then she comes home this saturday and she's been as careful as she could be although maybe not as careful as somebody more anal retentive would have been i don't know um and we'll see what happens but she's you know coming home saturday night i was hoping she was going to be on the call i mean she must have some great insights about them or handling it so could you give us the briefing um so it's funny like in the philippines it was kind of life as usual in a lot of ways and the philippines was their most recent stop and uh people were aware but not a lot of outdoor external activity was being shifted changed or whatever that said the event she was going there for basically people started canceling showing up so it got downgraded didn't happen um but in the philippines not so much in hanoi i think there was some probably best to hear this from her next time but uh in hanoi there was some dent but hanoi is like uh you know scooter city like there's there's insane scooter traffic everywhere scooters parked on all the sidewalks and i'm not sure that that was being dented uh so i think she's seen some weariness uh and there were some of her travel got shifted around like they canceled her trip to hanoi without without telling her so she had to she had to rebook and go through saigon to get to hanoi blah blah blah but there've been some inconveniences and a bunch of events being changed but i don't know that the cultural stuff on the ground was that deeply affected um and again she didn't touch china you know so she didn't didn't hit south korea so she wasn't in the places that have really or japan that have really been affected and have changed everything and jerry could you briefly summarize all the stuff that's been going on the jerry's retreat email list like what are the findings versus what the uh god if only pds talking about so p keminsky put out kind of a covet primer uh a couple weeks ago i guess and that has that has just been a thread that's just kept going and going and going as everybody keeps piling on what they're seeing um the best videos the resources over here and over there a bunch of stuff going on so it's it's been really fruitful uh i've been harvesting some of the links and putting them in my brain so there's an inside jerry's brain called this friday at i think 10 i have to check again but i'm doing an inside jerry's brain call about co vid and all this so if you want to catch up join that call uh and we'll we'll you know be more specific about it um anybody else want to jump in about what what's been on the list i mean what's cool on the list is that some of the people who are on the list are like social networking experts like baldus crebs who's been sharing here's here's how contention works look here's some maps i did for cdc a couple years ago um and so forth top you want to jump in yeah i was just going to say it's interesting to see the precautions that some people are taking um buying devices that that measured the amount of oxygen um pulse oximeters yeah yeah yeah is isabel asked uh basically uh so what are you all doing like what what mitigating strategies are each of you taking and a bunch of people have written back saying i'm not really stockpiling but i'm like you know if on sunday the markets are still open i'm going to stockpile on sunday and and that kind of thing i like that there was the red yellow green uh system that tom monarchy was was labeling like the dog the dog is green because the dog you know the dog is hostile to other dogs so it's probably not a contagion vector the grandkids were like yellow i think the grandkids are yellow it's not red i mean i think i think children are a huge contagion uh vector here huge huge huge i'm staying away from all parents man um cool any last thoughts before we wrap the call no well david didn't check in david didn't check in david a bit i did my yeah i did my my g rc plug yeah thanks bro yeah thank you um i get to track the cruise ship by watching the helicopters over the port man yeah um it's you know it's swinging close to everybody in different ways and uh so use the rex list if you want um for you know communicating more stuff about this as it goes we'll we'll see how it uh how it plays up it's gonna be interesting we live in interesting times yeah the curse has come true well i hope to see the rest of you in a month me too me i was thinking of saying that but i didn't want to do it it's so dark oh you just have to let jamae do that you knew he was going to jump in yeah if i record jamae's voice making my startup sound on my doomed could you want to get the end my my kid works for uh uber and he's having he's moving to work out of the new york office and so his mom was saying are you sure you want to do this he said yeah mom i'm going to new york so he asked me if he went to new york but the fun the fun little bit that he added on to it was he took the uber doctor from uh kennedy to doing that sweet and then and then the question is whether or not he'll be able to expensive so we all take a solemn oath to take our ipads phones um with us to the er and henceforth so we will all see each other excellent and you know what this is a non-contagious practice what we're doing right here so we're good you're making me confess it's green all right gentle people thank you very very much child babies child babies 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