 Yn y bwysig, yn plus, Cyfraffwyr, yna'n ystod i'ch gwneud y ddylunio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r dynol, yna'n ei ddweud o'r ffons, a'r ysgolwch yn bwysig, byddwch i'r gerau gyda Gerafffyrw, yng Nghymru, 10.9 bilionariad yw 13 bilionariad Cwilu. Dwi'n cael ei gwaith o'r ddweud. Jaffaru Mohammad hwnnw telifau'r cymhiliadau mewn cyflawni, ac yn gwneud yn y cyfrannu gwahanol o ffynissiaeth i gyr melodyg hái. Dyna hwnnw, y EFCC wedi mewn cyrraedd ddommeun o'r dynod y 20 o ffordd ynion 10.9 miliwn bwysigol fath o y Ffedderwg. Does ycia wneud fairwyr gwahawdd yn Nesaf, a yna unig i'r cyfrannu a'r gyflawni'n gwneud er mwynhau s הנrhyw, chuckwys y hoffydd, herfodd am munnwys i Mohamed. Yr ydych chi'n gweithio hanfosig ar y bank accounts operated by Nigerians foreign intelligence service. The recovered loot made of 43.5 million dollars. We're talking about £27,800 and £23.2 million was found hidden inside an apartment at the tower in Iqoi by operators of the EFCC in April. Now it explains the decision to get an interim for future order to seize the eight-choice landed property allegedly owned by the director of finance and accounts of the national security advisor talking about Janar Muhammad. Well, we have to head straight to the conversation. I mean, the story is almost endless, but let's look at how all of this because it's quite confusing. And we have talked about, you remember very well, that this administration has been very strong with a fight against corruption. And it's part of the premise that led them to win the selection. Of course, the campaign has been strong on the fight against corruption. We do have guests joining the conversation. Piyadu Shumumi is a public affairs analyst. It's good to have you join us this morning. Good morning. We also have Abdulahi, Mohammed Abdulahi is a public affairs analyst as well. And he will be helping us to make sense of all of this. Thank you very much, Sean. Good morning, Nigeria. Okay, so I'm going to put out this question and he would be directed to Biyadu Shumumi and Abdulahi Mohammed. The question is, how can this happen without being noticed? Should we blame this on the accounting system of the Government? I mean, the funds that were looted being relooted. In the first instance, you know, the amazing thing about this is no one has proved that the 13 billion NIA funds were looted funds to start with, because by the nature of the way intelligence agency, particularly ones dealing with external issues operate, is that they hardly keep money in the bank because they don't want those money to be traced of people they are funding for one external activity in defence of a country to be traced by foreign countries. Yes, the money was kept in a flat in the country, but nobody has proved till now that that money, you know, was actually looted. Nobody has been processed through the emergency system, you know, for that to one goes a month of money found kept in a flat. That is the first interest and go to this. But the agency responsible for prosecuting people for financial crimes actually took to control of this money and only for the same agency to loot the whole money, you know, almost the whole money. I mean, you're talking of about 11 billion out of 13 billion. So what is left? Then you ask yourself that, look, when you take over an exhibit, which is what the money is, is an exhibit, why or how is it possible that it is only one person that will be in custody of that without the knowledge of other people? For me, that is very curious. It's like going to a police station and claiming that it's only the desk officer that knows about what is in the exhibit room or the lack of accounting for things in the exhibit room. That is not correct. We know that the area commander will know about it. The DPO will know about it. The desk officer on each shift will know about it because a hand of the valve will be done. So now you ask yourself, this money is not kept in his own personal house. It's kept in the custody of the FCC, whether in the bank or in the safe house. So how could it be that gyfarwm may be the only one with access to it, even though other people have knowledge of it? It's just a tip of the iceberg. I don't think we've gotten to the end of this and there are, obviously, there may be other people copy people in the heart of Luton this point. Well, how would gyfarwm be able to move the overwhelming just like that if they are not getting the bank? If they are getting the bank, how come that the banks fail to report that a large amount of money is being, you know, when the law actually provides that, it should be reported to the same FCC? And how come the FCC investigator, you know, failed to pick up on this or the chief executive of the FCC itself called the chairman? How come they failed to pick up on this term? You cannot have custody of 13 billion naira and then not know anything about his movement. I think all that people needs to be called in, including my good appointed general, including the current chief executive director of operations. They need to explain what they are about it. It is impossible for one person, you know, to actually move this kind of money through a system or out of any building, you know, without the other organs of them, other operatives of them, the agency knowing about it. So, we have not seen the end of it. And I don't believe that the FCC should be allowed to investigate this matter because otherwise they will be investigating themselves. You know, it's like asking, you know, somebody are led to a committed law, you know, to investigate itself. The either special front unit of the Nigerian police force or the ICPC should be mandated, you know, to investigate this very alleged theft of a humongous amount of it. It shouldn't be ESCC that should be investigating themselves. Okay, so let's also have Mohammed Abdulahi share his thoughts on this. And although we also know that the reports are saying that the ESCC name Jafaru, as they're, you know, involved them in all of this, that's what the reports are saying. But the question that we're asking now is if this is anything to go by, how do we, how did this happen without being unnoticed? And how do we blame this? Who should we blame this on? Should it be on the system of government, the accounting system? I mean, where funds we say that we have looted funds that have been recovered? Is the system really, really that bad? Should we blame it on the government? Should we blame it on the entire process? Let's share your thoughts on that, Mohammed Abdulahi. Thank you for the question. I think while Mr Bieldo has laid a very good foundation on the story, I will also include that for the stories I've seen emanated from the AFCC, there was no particular officer. It was just stated that a serving military officer is alleged to have stolen 10.9 billion nera in which properties have been recovered. So I think we should understand that a serving military officer, which beholds the question, why is Nigerian state, that is my opinion, why is the Nigerian state aiding and abating corruption? Because like I mentioned earlier, the AFCC failed to mention this particular officer, this particular serving officer. Probably the journalists have done their investigative work on the ground and are coming out to say, is one Brigadier General Jaffer Mohammed, which is fine. But I'm saying the messages from the AFCC itself shows that it is a serving military officer. Now, going back to the question specifically, talking about our system, now when 43.7 million dollars and other foreign currencies were discovered in Iqoli as far back as 2017, that is like five years ago now. What did our law say? What did our law say? How did AFCC took out the custody of the money without returning the money to the military treasury? Is a big question for everyone to answer. You understand? And for a whole looping five years, one man or like Mr Beaudou rightly said, people must have the knowledge of siphoning this money. Definitely not one serving military officer. It is never possible that with our kind of system, just one serving military officer, we still such humongous sum. It is a collaborative effort of those people within that offices or even outside that offices. And I also agree with what Mr Beaudou suggested that the EFCC, because this is the case of like, like he mentioned, you, the EFCC, this case is embroiled in EFCC's staff, accomplices, taking out this money. So it is not, I don't think it is wise for EFCC to be investigating itself. There should be an outside independent body that should come out, investigate this issue and tell Nigerians what really happened and the people who are involved in this. We need to start naming and shaming people who are involved in outright theft of national treasury. I was so disappointed by what the EFCC put out last week, mentioned on Monday or Tuesday, mentioned the fact that a serving military officer, that was the term they used, a serving military officer stored so-so-so and this so-so-so has been recovered. That is so, so shameful. So I think it is very important that at this moment we have an independent investigation that tells us the real deal, the real issues, those people culpable and the fact that they will face justice. Okay. I'd like to point out, gentlemen, just like you said, Mohammed, the EFCC hasn't named anyone. They have not taken anyone to court. No one has been convicted yet. So it's a report that we have gotten from a media outlet that has said that from their findings, they are linking, they have found out that the name of the person, the named military officer by the EFCC is Shafaro. But we are aware, of course, that we have been in public glare, the back-and-forth between Shafaro seizing his properties, sitting off his buildings and all that before now, and looking at getting a court order and Shafaro complaining that it is a witch hunt against him. However, bearing in mind that we have this cycle of security agencies, the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission, you have the National Intelligence Agency, who the money was set to be long. Don't forget the courts were asking the owners of the money to come forward, and later we heard Mago is saying what the NIA has, that money is their money, to use it for an operation. Now you gentlemen, both of you are saying the EFCC shouldn't be investigating this. So the question is who in particular should take up this case? I'll come back to you and be able to show me. Yeah, we have different options in this matter, but if you will permit me, let me just highlight one important fact. Yes, the EFCC may or may not have mentioned with you that they are trying to power Muhammad, but as the Director of Finance of the EFCC, there is no way he will not be capable in the custody or the movement of the firms. That can never be done. But all this is down to subject to being convicted by a court to say the man stole is a court who has to say guilty. So all we're doing now is conjecturing all in the realm of speculation or allegations. No, the issue is not even about stealing. The issue is about the safe custody of the alleged missing firms. There is no way the Director of Finance of the EFCC will not know where this money is stored. You know, that is a fact. It does not mean he is the one that actually stole the money. But he should know where the money is stored. He should know about the good bank of such firms. And we should never forget that there is also the ferragumentarity, you know, that firms should be kept with CBN under the single treasury system. No, the single agency is allowed to keep funds. So therefore, as Director of Finance, he has some explanations. It does not mean he is the one that actually looted or no one can prove that until processed through the criminal justice system. But now back to your question on who should investigate this. We have three options. One is to ensure that this investigation is carried out by a panel of private investigators. We should include, you know, PTA judges, members of the Nigerian Bar Association, including journalists. They should have a role in investigating that. That would be a very, very independent investigation panel. But if we don't want to do that, we have two other options. There are other two anti-fraud agencies in Nigeria. One is ICPC, which can also be mandated to do that. The other is the Serious Fraud, Special Fraud Unit, based at Milvetine Rolicoe of the Nigerian Police Force. They could also be made to investigate that. I understand some people may be concerned by using the asset, knowing that the pool of officers working in the ESCC were actually from the Nigerian Police Force. So that is why I'll be suggesting even a panel of independent retired judges, reputed judges, lawyers and journalists, you know, to be constituted. We've seen what was done in the case of the panel set up in Degos to look at the end of protest in Degos. We've seen that they've done justice to it significantly. So I don't think ESCC should be allowed to investigate itself. And by extension, if we want, we may even exclude the Special Fraud Unit because it's from the Nigerian Police Force. We may consider either ICPC or independent panel. I don't think the National Assembly itself should be allowed to investigate it because they have failed in their oversight functions. So, therefore, if they have failed in their oversight functions over ESCC on this matter, what should they be made to look... Okay, we have to pull the plugs at this time. But quickly, Mr Mohamed, it was really public, you know, the ongoing, the back and forth between the two groups, the ESCC recovered property, the seized property from this man, you know, the civil office, his properties, and he wrote to Aboka Malami Esi and the Attorney General of the Federation alleging a witch hunt. Now, why, if the ESCC, if this report is true, the report that we are citing, that this man is the one they are talking about, why didn't they just mention his name? Very quickly, in one sentence, please. Yes, that is what I mentioned earlier in my statement of the fact that the Nigerian system and the Nigerian state as a whole is aiding and abating criminal activities. Now, if you are sealing someone's property and you have the fact that these properties are proceeds of looted funds, why are you not naming the person? You know, why are you using the term a seven military officer? That's like taking Nigerians for a ride, taking Nigerians for foods, seriously. So, you know, we have to ensure that our system is rigid enough to withstand and say the fact as it is. Okay, we have to go. It seems to be aiding and abating criminals. We have to go. We have to go. Thank you very much, gentlemen, but it's also important to point out that, plus, if we have guys citing a report that is alleging that the military officer being referred to by the ESCC in this 13, missing 13 billionaire loot is Jafar Muhammad, and of course, we'll be waiting for the agency to officially announce, to verify and to confirm that that report is true. Gentlemen, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate you joining us. Well, that's the size of the conversation. If you may start on any part of it, it's all right to follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, and you subscribe to YouTube channels of possibly Africa and possibly Africa, I understand. I am cofibartels. See you on Monday. Good morning.