 ready to get started. Welcome everyone. So it's my pleasure to introduce our guest tonight. I'll talk first about his firm. So A.R. St. Gross is known nationally for its innovative design work in higher education. Since its founding and 100 years ago, ASG has grown to 170 employees in three offices. Their team includes architects, landscape architects, urban planners, interior designers, graphic designers, and a technology arm that focuses on space analytics, all supporting their body of collegiate work. As an interesting aside, if any of you have used the rendering software plugin V-Ray for Sketchup or V-Ray for Rhino, you've touched something that came out of their office, actually, in that tech arm. But I digress. The office is best known for its work on buildings and master plans for quite an impressive array of colleges and universities. So these include, among others, Harvard University, Purdue University, Texas A&M, Washington University, St. Louis, University of Notre Dame, Johns Hopkins, Emory, Carnegie Mellon, University of Virginia, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, Georgia, Arizona, Rhode Island, Maryland, Hobart and Williams Smith, etc. You get the idea. And as many of you know, they're currently working on the master plan of our very own campus here at RetroLames. So now on to our guests. Our guest tonight is Adam Gross, who's a principal at ASG and a fellow of the American Institute of Architects. He received his B-Arc from Syracuse University, where impressively, he was on the basketball team. And incidentally, I learned recently that Adam also attended the same high school as our very own Dean White. And that, along with the basketball planning, that makes me wonder, is that a town of tall people? Anyway, Adam was recruited to become a principal at the office at an astonishingly young age. I think he was in his late 20s. Quite remarkable. And over the last four decades or so, he's helped shape and grow ASG into what it is today. He's written and lectured extensively on urban design, collegiate architecture and master planning. And he's taught at several architecture schools. Recently, he was the Fay Jones chair of architecture at the University of Arkansas and distinguished professor of architecture at the University of Maryland. Adam was also, I'm envious, a visiting scholar at the American Academy in Rome in 2014. And to that list, he now adds that he's currently leading a design firm here, sorry, firm and residence graduates studio here at our very own School of Architecture. So with that, please join me in welcoming Adam. Thank you all for coming. I loved putting this talk together. I kind of got obsessed by it. And I'm happy to do it again if there are other students or faculty who'd like to see it if you think it's worthwhile. Because it has been kind of a labor of love for me. So normally when I've given a talk about to an architecture school, it's just been about our work. And I kind of selfishly am doing a talk about my life. And I was saying to Nate that what I'm trying to really impart to the students is that through this talk is that the work that you do in architecture school and before being an architecture school will actually have an extraordinarily profound impact on your success. It's not just kind of fun and games, it will make a huge difference in how you develop into a professional. So Warp and Wefts, I'm turning 64 actually in two weeks. And the subtitle patching weaving and connecting is really what I feel like I've been doing for the last 40 or so years as a professional, but also did prior to that. And the weaving analogy is very sentimental for me because my daughter, this is my daughter Perry with her cat, Natty Bo, she lives in Baltimore along with me, is a weaver and she is an extraordinary artist through her loom. And this is a fabric piece that she did where she hand dyed all those different colors and then has woven this remarkable piece of fabric. And she more recently has been using discarded plastic bags. So like bags that you hopefully will no longer be able to get actually at the grocery, but she takes plastic bags and strips them and then weaves them, in this case, into a purse. And it actually is remarkably soft, this woven plastic material. So what I've learned from her is that weaving is about this idea of warp and weft. And the warp is basically a kind of ordered series of pieces of material all in a line, like almost like a grid. And then the weft is more irregular. So here's another example of one of her pieces with you can see at the bottom the kind of vertical striping of the yarn. And then through that she kind of interweaves a random pattern. And this idea of kind of order and then freedom is really critical to my life. So this is a little diagram showing a town that is ordered by the same kind of grid as the warp. And then objects are placed into it, which are kind of more the weft and irregular. And what this point, this diagram is pointing out that unless you have some kind of structure and some kind of order, or you're making a conscious effort to put in this case objects in a park, you're going to get kind of disorder. So the idea that you could make an entire city of buildings by Zaha Hadid, for instance, who I in many ways respect, I think kind of runs against this idea that there has to be some kind of underlining system to allow for the occasional Guggenheim. And what we talk about a lot in our office is that buildings are, and this is actually from Brian Kelly's mind, a fellow friend and colleague of ours, is that they're buildings that are what we would call good soldiers that are kind of background buildings that define space and make cities and make urbanity. And then buildings that are heroes that are more that could be the town hall or the library or a museum that are shared by the public. And those tend to be the buildings that normally historically have been more exuberant instead of every building being exuberant. It's kind of also analogy of a symphony playing together and then one soloist. If you can't have 20 soloists and have a very beautiful melody. So this idea of Warp and Weft has been with me since the beginning. So I'm going to go through my life starting when I was born in 1955. And I was born in New York City, which is kind of this idea. Did you have a question? Oh, this which is this idea of a grid with with kind of irregular elements that happen within it, whether it's Broadway or Central Park carved out of it. And my parents were both born in New York. My mother always trained as a graphic designer. My father was a book publisher. And I was born there and lived there until I was about three years old. And my parents had an extraordinary collection of friends. So that's my dad in the front and my mom on the left there in the front. And behind them is Arthur and Elaine Cohen. And Elaine Cohen, who's there at a slightly younger age, married to a different husband Alvin Lustig, who died. But Alvin Lustig was one of the great graphic designers of the 20th century. And this spirit of modernism, I was extraordinary lucky to be kind of imbued in it and born into it and spent time with it and saw it in my every waking hours because it's what my parents surrounded themselves with. So we used to, I'm Jewish and this is a poster designed by Elaine Cohen, Hanukkah. And we used to go to Arthur and Elaine's house on the upper east side for Passover. And my sister and I would love going into this one room. Which was the powder room on the ground floor of this row house, because in the powder room were these combs that Elaine had collected. So there's Elaine and these combs, which also have this idea of warp and weft, they have an idea of a grid that can be manipulated, that can have things woven through it to kind of create different visions. So that kind of was my very early years, like five, six, seven years old in this environment and this is all graphic designed by Elaine who died just a few years ago at 96. And the one on the left, she actually was done I think when she was about 94. So she kind of created this incredible collection of work up until the moment she died. So my parents then moved to Southern Connecticut to Westport, Connecticut where Steve and I both went to high school. And in the 60s, a very close friend of ours, there's from New York, moved to Westport. And my family proceeded to spend almost every Thanksgiving at this house. And this was the door to that house. And when you opened that door, you came in and saw these extraordinary things. So on the upper left is a bookcase. Can someone who's not a faculty member tell me who designed that bookcase, that shelf? Should be easy. So it's all of our all toe. How about the chair on the lower left? Le Corbusier. And then the rest of this is artwork done by the person who lived in this house or in the case of these buoys, things that he collected, which is a guy named Paul Rand, who is the greatest graphic designer of the 20th century without question on the faculty at Yale. But, and this is an ad, he was friends with Steve Jobs. He actually was hired by Steve Jobs when Steve took a break from Apple and created something called the next computer. Paul Rand designed the logo for the next computer. And he was a genius. And he did a lot of children's books and children's toys that I kind of again grew up with. But he also created the logo for the company on the left. Everybody knows what that company is, right? Please tell me, yeah. So, and these, this is just a handful of the other logos that he created. So this again, my sister and I, my sister is a painter, but kind of grew up with this. So, like a lesson is embrace art. And, you know, we've been talking about the lack of, in the campus plan we're doing for Roger Williams, the lack of good facilities for the arts. It's really pretty pitiful what their house did now and how important art is to other disciplines. So speaking of Steve Jobs, he was obsessed with two things. He was obsessed with technology and he was obsessed with design. And if you read his biography by Walter Isaacson, he talks about him obsessing over the curve of the iPhone. So the idea that design and engineering here on this campus should be more integrated, that architecture and art should be more integrated on this campus are all things we're talking about at the campus planning level. So then I went to junior high school and now called middle school and high school. And I was very lucky in my junior high school, in ninth grade, to take a mechanical drawing course with Mr. Day, with John Day. And I remember these drawings. I mean, I found them for this talk and dug them out. And I remember them clearly. And this idea that you could start visualizing things in plan, section, and elevation became, start becoming kind of a part of my DNA. And then, I don't know, Steve, if you had this assignment. But then I went to Staples High School and Steve was a year ahead of me. And we both had this incredible drawing, architectural drawing class with Werner Fries, who used to charge us if we dropped our triangle or our T-square or our scale. You guys know what those are, right? He would charge us 25 cents. Oh, that was a no-no. Yeah, you're right. So he gave us this extraordinary assignment. I hope you got this assignment, which he said, okay, make a house plan from a circle, a square, and a triangle. So here's my drawings from 1972, I think. I don't know if there's a date on there. 1970. Is that what that says? Oh, no. I don't know. Yeah, it's about probably 1972 of trying to, you know, understand how rooms and houses are organized and how circulation works within these different geometries. So Dean White and I were very lucky to go to Architecture School, having this foundation of having worked on architectural design projects in high school. So I then started looking around and I had aspirations to play basketball and looked around at the number of architecture schools that actually had a basketball team. And there was really only a handful, so I applied to Syracuse and I got in and I did play basketball there, which again is a lesson. I mean, I think find something other than architecture that you also love and you want to have as a part of your life, be multi-dimensional, don't just be about one thing. And sports has always been one of the really important parts of my life and I've made huge friends through sports, but I also think the idea of being on a team is really important. So Syracuse at that time was transitioning, but it introduced me in my freshman year to this same idea of warp and weft. So this was a project I loved, which was a nine square grid kind of structure, which we were all given. So everyone had to build like this nine square grid. Then you would take panels and planes and move them around. So again, you were kind of breaking the grid. It's like that warp and weft idea. And this project is like still in my brain. It still it influences the way I think about projects that we are working on in my firm now. So then I was very lucky that Syracuse after my freshman year started initiated a program in Florence. I know you guys have a program in Florence as well, but Syracuse had the first program in Florence I think of any major architecture school. So off I went to Florence with a bunch of my friends and like life changing, right, of going to this incredible place and we were given projects, which I know you guys are also given to analyze this city. So these are my drawings that I did like way back when of like looking at negative space of thinking about how urban design and architecture come together. And all of these diagrams or drawings were leading me to this kind of direction that I've had for most of my profession, which is that there's no difference really between urbanism and architecture. And they're integrated with each other and our success in campus planning is 100% because we approached it from a point of view of urban design and space making and place making and thinking in plan and section not just when you're designing a building, but also when you're laying out a city or you're laying out a campus. And like even this diagram that's that hero and soldier diagram again where these buildings are kind of all the good soldier is creating a space and then there's a heroic building sitting in the middle, which I think is a tempia. No, I don't know what that is. So this influence of being in Europe was extraordinary and I came back from this experience in Florence deciding that I didn't want to go back to Syracuse because it didn't really have a strong Dean. I had had some friends who were working in New York who had gone to Cooper Union. I thought that would be a great place and I was going to transfer there. And so I took a year off and I worked for this architect on the left. Can anyone identify who that is? I'll let faculty guess to you guys know who that is, right? And now defamed. Yeah. So that's Richard Meyer sitting next to a model of students only. What is that building on the upper left? What? Yeah, good. All right. So I was in New York and I discovered this place called the Institute for Architecture and Urban Studies, which was like a salon that was started by this guy right here whose name is Peter Isaman. And here he is with another guy named John Hayduck. Have you heard of the book Five Architects? So this book came out right around that time and the Five Architects were Peter Isaman, John Hayduck, Richard Meyer, Charlie Guathme, and Michael Graves. And they basically was a PR campaign by the five of them to become famous because they had all designed like one house. In the face of Peter Isaman, maybe he had had one building that was John Hayduck had nothing built at that time, but they all became super famous through this place, through this book, but also through the Institute for Architecture and Urban Studies. So I hung out there. I was like super lucky to be in New York, work for Richard Meyer during the day. We'll go at night to all these lectures at this place. And one of the people I met was this guy. Can anybody identify who that is? Rem Coolhouse, now bald, with Walter Harrison. There was an exhibit on Walter Harrison that Rem put together and that's actually Walter Harrison with Rem Coolhouse. They also published this book, the magazine kind of pamphlet called Oppositions, which I'm sure it's in your library, which is an incredible capture of a moment in time of what was going on there. So at the end of this New York experience, I went to a studio at the GSD and I met this guy who was about to become the Dean at Syracuse and I was going to transfer to Cooper Union where this guy, John Haddock, was the Dean. And this guy convinced me to go to Syracuse because he was going to do these amazing things there and his name was Warner Seligman. So that's Warner. And Warner was connected to this guy named Colin Rowe and Fred Coder. And it makes me really, really sad and desperate and unhappy to discover how your generation, maybe it's different at this school because of people like Edgar and Steve and others, don't know who these guys are because these people are as important as Paladio or Vitruvius or Mies van der Rohe or Zaha Hadid or Herzog de Muren or Big or Dillerscafidio in terms of the impact that they had on architecture. And so Warner kind of got me to go back to Syracuse. I completed my work there, which I'm really happy I did. And part of that was another just stroke of luck that they had a relationship with the architectural association in London. So I had gone to Florence, then I go to New York, and then I got to go to London. And lo and behold, believe it or not, my studio critic, my studio teacher in London, I'll come back to that, was Rem Kuhlhaus. He was much younger than this picture. And his teaching assistant was Zaha Hadid. And I went there with kind of this understanding of cities that I had gotten from being in Florence and being around Warner Seligman and Fred Coder. But I kind of got this other view from going to London. And there was a movement at that time by a firm called Arcagram. And Peter Cook and they were doing like really crazy, like walking cities like gigantic animals and really unusual stuff. And so Rem was also doing amazing things as well. So I got kind of confused, I have to say, because it was this like traditional grounding that I had in traditional cities and traditional urbanism and then modern architecture. So I started doing drawings that were like, what should I do? How do I deal with the past and the present with old and new, with solid and clear. And I started doing these diagrams of buildings that I became obsessed by of things like interlocking and intertwisting. And I did a competition and the same kind of idea. And it really was all okay, because it kind of created, again, the person I am, which is a believer in urbanism and modernism at the same time, that you can do urbanism and modernism at the same time. And like at Seaside that Andrea Swani did, there's a building by Tony Ames, there's a building by Stephen Hall, there's a building by hyper modern architects within a setting that's more traditional urbanism of placemaking and spacemaking. So I then got out of school and after London and there was a huge recession. So I looked around at who I wanted to work for and I was really enamored by this guy, Mario Boda. I loved his work, I was obsessed by his work and I wrote him a letter and he wrote me back. And I had a friend of mine translate the letter into Italian. He's Swiss but kind of lives near Italy so he speaks Italian. And so I got this letter back and I couldn't understand it and I'm frantically like trying to find out where he told me, yes, get on a plane and come over and start working with me. And then I saw this line, recessione economica, meaning there's a recession here and I can't hire you. So I kept looking around and I found this building which is the Wellesley Science Center, which was built at the exact same time that the Pompey Duce Center was built and designed by Renzo Piano and Richard Rogers. But this was designed by a friend called Peridian Rogers and a guy named Charlie Rogers. So I applied to a job there and I waited two years and I did a couple of like moonlighting jobs and they hired me and it was like the first person they had hired in three years. And then we came out of the recession and started doing work again. And the first big project I worked on was at Wesleyan University where we took this old McKimmy and White Library which was T-shaped and wrapped it with this new addition. This was done again in like 1979, 1980. And it started getting me into kind of a way of thinking of how do you deal with context, how do you deal with trying to do more modern things in a historic setting. It really introduced me to college campuses in the first time. And then one of the partners got a phone call from a little firm in Baltimore, eight-person firm in Baltimore to do a project in Baltimore. And he came over to my desk and said, we're going to go after this job. We just got this job. I want you to work on it with me. We're going to Baltimore next week. So I started going to Baltimore and I'd never been there before. That was 1984. And I discovered this really amazing city kind of carved in a way out of the Chesapeake Bay and adjacent to the Chesapeake Bay with all kinds of a magic wonderment in it. And it's like a really cool, funky, interesting place now without its problems. And the firm at that time was run by these three gentlemen. There I am. I was 28, 29 years old. So that's Kelsey St. And that's Richard Ayers. And they went to Yale together. And Richard Ayers was the designer and Kelsey St. was the technician. Kelsey St. invented, created the CSI format, the construction specifications institute format. He was like a genius. And he did the most beautiful working drawings by hand on vellum like incredible drawings. And his son, Richard Ayers, his son, Richard Ayers Jr. had just graduated from Penn. He's a few years older than me. And he and I became friends. And they made me this offer. I was 29 years old to join the firm as a partner. But I was very sneaky. I told my friends, I'm only staying in Baltimore for a couple of years. I'm going to learn how to run a firm. And then I'm coming back to Boston. I'm not staying in Baltimore. I would go back to Boston to get my haircut. I was dating a girl in Boston. But one thing led to another. And I ended up sticking around. So a few years later, we started getting more work. And I kind of didn't know what I didn't know. And I was very brash. And I got to go after every project. And we'd win like 50% of them. And so we ended up kind of growing the firm around that guy, Richard Ayers. The original Mr. Ayers and Kelsey St. retired. They were both, in this picture, they were, you know, you can see they're pretty old. They were both in their 80s. So a few years later, they retired. And this kind of formed the structure of our firm. So this guy, Glenn Berks, was there before me. He was one of the eight employees. And he is an amazing technician. He is a fellow at the AIA through his leadership at BIM. He's one of the real leaders in the country on building information modeling. He also does all of our contracts. He does all of our quality control. Richard was the managing partner. So he worried about paying the rent, running the firm, managing the firm. And then this guy joined us from HOK named Jim Wheeler. And he was a business development guy. He was a business development genius, marketing genius. And then I was the head of design for the firm for many years. And you can see in the background our university work that we started doing around this time. That's University of Georgia. This is University of North Carolina. I'll show you in a minute. So through my father, who ended up going from New York City publishing to Boston University, we got a connection to a guy named Steve Trachtenberg who had just become the president at George Washington University. And I was with him at a conference. And I was walking down the street and it had really nice trash cans and light fixtures and paving. And he said, this is what I want to do to my campus, George Washington University. He had just been named president. Can you help me? I said, sure, of course. We had never done a campus plan. I had never done a campus plan. I had no idea what a campus plan was. So we went down and this was the campus. This is Pennsylvania Avenue. The White House is right here. This is 23rd Street which comes up to Washington Circle. This is where Reagan, President Reagan was shot when he was brought to the hospital right here. But the campus had no, it was never designed as a campus. It was just a series of city blocks that had been purchased incrementally over time by George Washington University. So we kind of started by stripping it back to the kind of warp to this simple grid. And we said the campus wanted to be better defined. And if you could start with just better defining the streets and the kind of urbanistic systems of the campus and then overlay that with the spaces that exist on campus and this more, this is like the weft, more informal weaving, you could create a re-envisioned campus. So the red kind of tart and grid were all rethought streetscapes. The pink are all proposed new buildings, all of which have now been built and more than is shown here. So we came up with this kind of kit of parts like a Swiss army knife. These are all hand drawings, including an idea about consistent paving, consistent tree planting, a series of pylon, signage, wayfinding. And we kind of came up with this idea. So there is Pennsylvania Avenue. Here's 23rd Street. The Watergate is like right over here. Of dropping on top of the grid, dropping like ribbons from the sky, this infrastructure of placemaking and urbanism. And we did that with a kind of new introduction to my understanding of architecture and urbanism, which is landscape architecture and how you make streets and how you make street trees and how you can, the most important thing you can do for a city is healthy street trees and how you make street trees has become an obsession of mine. And this is a sketch by a really close colleague and friend named Michael Virgus and a really great landscape architect who we worked with this project. And Michael came up with this idea of a braid of tree types. So you'd have different flowering trees and different trees of different colored leaves in the fall along these kind of crossbrades of the city grid. And then we focused on these gateways and developed this whole kit of parts of gateways that could adjust on campus, whether you're next to a limestone building or next to a brick building. We came up with this motif of an open book on the top. And this was a copper light fixture, which ended up all getting built. I mean, it was extraordinary. And we are still working for, we've almost we have never been off George Washington University's payroll since we did this project through multiple presidents, you know, doing buildings, doing landscape stuff. These are two buildings that we designed a couple years later. And at this point in time, we opened an office in D.C. So we had started with just the office in Baltimore. We were about 25 or 30 people. And then we opened this office in D.C. We now have 110 people in Baltimore and about 50 people in Washington. So both of these buildings are designed. These were done in about 2000 or around 2000. So, but keeping in the flow of my life, since we had that one master plan, we said, well, we can go after more master plans. And we need to add more partners. So we added a bunch of new partners, including, amazingly, two women. And it was, we had one of the only firms, certainly in Baltimore, if not in the whole Mid-Atlantic that actually had women as partners, Luanne Green and Sandra Viccio, Sandra unfortunately is no longer with us. Luanne came to us from a guy named Jack Robertson. He used to be the Dean at University of Virginia. And he went to New York with a guy named Alex Cooper and formed a firm called Cooper Robertson. He's a great urban design firm. And Jack Robertson called me one day and he said, Adam, for some unforeseen reason, I can't understand this woman. Luanne is moving to Baltimore. You need to hire her, which was the best thing I ever did. Luanne is now our president. And at the large-firm roundtable, which is the collection of all big firms, there are only two women presidents of, I don't know, like over, like 80 firms. Luanne is one of them. The other is Carol Wedge at Sheppley-Bulfinch. So with this kind of enhanced firm, we started going after more work. And Luanne went to University of Virginia. And University of Virginia had a request for proposals to do a master plan. And as my students in my studio know, the lawn at UVA was designed by Thomas Jefferson around a whole narrative of American education at that time, which had been buildings that contained everything. So at most, like at Harvard, you had one building that had student housing in it and classrooms in it and administration. And Jefferson exploded that into what he called an academic village, where each pavilion was lived in by a different dean. And the classes occurred on the ground floor of these pavilions. Each pavilion was a narrative about architectural style. And they were connected by student residences creating this lawn, which is 200 feet wide, which is about the same scale of almost every quadrangle in America on every campus. And at the head of the composition was the library. And Jefferson designed this open to the west. And right at this moment, he was sending Lewis and Clark, if you haven't read on Don DeCourage, read on Don DeCourage, he sent Lewis and Clark out to find the other end of America. So he said, the openness of the quad is evocative of the openness of the human mind. And the sun was setting on the west and then Stanford White came along and built a building at the end of this quad. But what's amazing about Jefferson is he didn't do this alone. So this is actually his first sketch for what the lawn might be. And he sent it to a guy named Benjamin La Trobe. And La Trobe said, you know, I think this space is too big. You should narrow it. This is the kind of dog leg that they had back and forth. So anyway, we were hired to do this plan. And there's the lawn open to the west. And there's an expression, damned if you do, damned if you don't, which supposedly came from McKim, Mead, and White Charles McKim when he was asked to design this building, Cabell Hall, which ended up blocking the view. And so no longer do you have this view to the west. But he said, damned if I do, damned if I don't. Like someone's going to design it. It might as well be me. So here's the lawn as Jefferson originally envisioned it. And if you just keep your eye on this little white composition, this is the campus today. A total sprawl. So this is a theme you're going to see through almost all the projects I'm going to quickly go through here. So we were hired to kind of come up with a new master plan. And our whole idea was to better connect the university in these areas that had sprawled around issues of transportation and parking, but better connect the grounds and better connect the buildings. And so this is Luann. I just found this picture to preparing this talk. I love this photograph. In the basement of the Rotunda, where the university architect's office was, where we would camp out and draw. And what we drew was this very simple idea, this very simple diagram. And I showed this to some of you guys yesterday. There's the lawn. There's the where the Rotunda and Jefferson's original lawn is. And this is the area that it kind of sprawled to the north and the south. And it also is along a stream valley, which had all been put into pipes, was all in culverts. So we came up with this idea of what we called the grounds walk, which was this big swoosh that connects the professional schools, lawn business through a series of athletic facilities across the street, down around to the southern part of campus where there's more residential. And there you see the lawn again. And then we started to think about what could happen along that path, how that braid could be interconnected. A lot of people started talking about this grounds walk. We had a presentation to their board of visitors and we put it on a t-shirt and put it at each one of their chairs and kind of tried to brand this idea of the grounds walk and then filled it in with the new buildings that were being thought of at that time to kind of reinforce those connections. And the first project we were asked to do out of this was, I'm just going to skip through this, was to deal with the entrance and arrival to campus. So this was the way it used to look when you came down route 29 into Charlottesville, you'd be greeted by the O'Connell Lodge on the left there. And so this is right where the grounds walk kind of goes across the street. So we conceptualized this bridge which we actually were then hired to do. So an unintended consequence of our success in master planning was that it led to buildings and led to other projects. So here's, as you kind of came in further into the campus, as it used to look, it will soon look more like this. These projects are now actually finally underway. We're not the architects, but that's okay. But you can see just kind of the difference in trying to create a place that's more central to Jefferson's original ideas. And then, as I mentioned, all the water had been put in pipes. So this used to be a stream valley and there was a woman on their landscape architecture staff named Kathy Poole. And she said, you don't value what you don't see. And so she worked with us to locate all the water. And we came up with this idea to daylight these streams. And then we worked with a firm called Biohabitats to do it. So this is one of those pieces of the puzzle where we've daylight, this is called the Dell, daylight streams throughout the campus and kind of gotten the water back out of the ground. And then we're also doing, oh, this is ongoing work at UVA. This is a new study we have finished for their engineering school. Through that connection to Jefferson, we were asked to submit our qualifications to do a new visitor center for Thomas Jefferson's home at Monticello. And I've had like five successes of winning projects that have been like the most monumental. This may have been the most, like we competed against some very good firms and somehow won this project and then got to do this project in the shadow of Thomas Jefferson. So it was an amazing experience for us. So there's his house at the top of this hill, little mountain, Monticello's little mountain. And they had a really pitiful existing visitor center that didn't tell any kind of story. It was just like a shed where you go buy a ticket and you get on a bus and go to the top of the hill. So we began by kind of thinking about who this guy was and how we could use the building to tell the story of who he was. And when I was putting this talk together again, I mean this whole idea of how do you honor the object of one's admiration? And we really asked ourselves during that process if Jefferson were alive today, what would he do? But if he were alive in the 20th century, like understanding modern architecture and people that came before him. So we began by creating a series of project goals and kind of diagramming the house, diagramming Jefferson's house, which is this kind of beautiful pavilion surrounded by these colonnades that are supported underneath by the slaves quarters. And this was right when Jefferson's there to fore unknown story of his relationship with Sally Hemings, one of the African American servants, slaves who was in and there's a slave cemetery that we tied the project into. So by taking this, we really tried to start understanding the distinctive qualities of Monticello, the distinctive qualities of Jefferson and came up with this concept that we were not going to design a building, but we were going to design a series of buildings and that it was not going to be the destination, but it was really going to be the threshold to the mountaintop. And so their curator Susan Klein and I became very good friends and she turned me on to this idea of Jefferson again, opening up to the West and then also to the East. So she said that's Roman antiquity and this was the wilderness. And so we had this kind of same idea in our diagram. It's kind of a pinwheel down here. So this is way down the hill. Jefferson designed these roundabouts that go around this hill of these four or five, four pavilions around a courtyard opening to the wilderness, opening to the world, the present and the past. And that became the diagram exploded here in a similar way to the house exploded here. And basically it was a series of these pavilions one, two, three, four around this courtyard, which terraced down the hill underneath the courtyard was a lot of other functions. So this is actually a green roof, which you see here in section. So we had kind of three terraces. One where you would get on the bus to go up to the house and then you could walk back down the main terrace, which was kind of the public level, which includes a interpretive theater and then classrooms and support down below. So there's that courtyard sitting on structured space below. And then here's the final building. And you know, everybody who I would say we're designing, we're working on this visitor center at Monticello will say is it going to be brick with white trim? And you know, we thought about that, but we basically tried instead to get the essence of the kind of character of these buildings that Jefferson designed at the top of the hill. So these are Jefferson's buildings, but not but using more natural materials, we basically did the new buildings in three materials. So this is our new ticketing pavilion, which as you can see similar proportions to Jefferson's little pavilions, but done in a kind of cleaner, crisper, more modern way, mostly glass. And there are basically three materials, stone, red cedar and copper. And that's it. So you can see we kind of tried to take everything and just thin it down and make it more crisp, make it more contemporary. And then here's the final result. So this is the drop off and you can go park, you come back, you get ticketed, you go into this courtyard, you go to a film room, a cafe, then you go into this museum, you go up to the top of the stairs, you go see the house, you come back down through a gift shop, and then you come back out to a plant sales area. So a really monumental project for us and it led to a lot of other cultural work that we've done in addition to our university work. So moving along with just a couple more campuses. So once we got UVA under our belt and a couple other campuses, we really started competing at a larger scale. So this is UNC Chapel Hill. And this is so typical of so many campuses and cities where there was an original historic core that was compact and tight like that warp and weft again and had a direct relationship to their town. And then as they grew over time and really influenced by modernist planning and our friend Le Corbusier and sprawl like these are Villaradus just kind of landed here. Same thing he suggested in France, picked up by architects in the 60s. So again, you can see this very tight knit system here and then the sprawl. And so and this is the medical center residential down here, the Dean Smith Dome or the basketball team plays. So our diagram basically said, let's take the characteristics of the northern part of campus and extend them down as a system. Let's take the arboretum, which is this beautiful pine pine item forest and bring it into the campus and then let's reinforce Franklin Street and I can't remember the street Columbia Street as the other two borders of the campus. And that became the diagram that has guided this university for 20 years. And people thought there's no way you can take the character of the north and bring it to the south, but we did it. And we did it by starting with open space. So this is where you walked on campus. So look at this rich incredible warp and weft kind of variation of pathways. And as soon as you got south of that and this is accurate, these are the only places you could really walk. And our vision was to do this was to take this kind of rich network of circulation and extend it all the way down with new open spaces, move most of the parking off of asphalt and put it into structures or remote or organize it remotely off campus with shuttle buses. And then around that you'd kind of organize the buildings. I'm a little embarrassed by this drawing because it looks kind of 80s, but it was the moment when we did it. So it would look a little different today. But this shows in black 12 million square feet of existing space. And the red buildings here are another 11 million square feet. So we're almost doubling the size of the campus. And since we did the plan, UNC has built around 8 million square feet. And so this is the campus as it looked today, the kind of more northern, more tight, beautiful part of the campus and then the sprawl. And we suggested that all that parking be put into structures, that we introduce some pedestrian bridges to deal with top topography. Most of this has been built. One of these buildings is actually by SOM. The garage is now in a lot of the stuff is built. Doesn't look exactly like this, but the general concept has been followed. This is the other residential side. Almost all of this has been built. So all of these residence halls have been put in place. We're now still working on this area over here, which includes a new train line that will come into the medical center back across here. And we're looking at a new home for the Smith Center also. So this is what was built in the first few years, about 6.8 million square feet since 1996. And then what's either an in design or under construction since that plan was done. And one of the key lynch points of this plan was these two areas. You just saw an aerial of one of them. And then this is the other where the campus sloped way down. And the stadium was planted was cited here because it was a stream valley and it was a low so that was already kind of a natural amphitheater. And it created this disconnection between the northern part of the campus and the south. So we tried to link through here with the project that you just saw. And then another project we were told, you guys came up with this idea. We want you to figure out how to do it over here. So we are hired as the architects for this other site, which was a 700 car parking lot. And the grade sloped down about 20 feet, 30 feet from here to here. And then you have to go back up about another 20 or 30 feet. So you'd walk through a parking lot up and down the hill. And we came up with this concept of building a parking garage on that site. And then putting a green roof on top of the garage and then two new buildings on top of the green roof, which is a dining hall and a rec center. So that's what the site used to look like where you'd walk down the hill through the parking lot back up the hill. This is what it looks like today. This project is about 12 years old. So it's now 800 cars of parking, totally invisible, a green roof, and these two new student life buildings. So guys, we were talking about like garages the other day and what do you do with garages? Right around that time, we were working with a lot of different consultants and we said, why are we giving all this work away? Why don't we take the design elements we're subbing out like landscape architecture, graphic design and bring them into the office and build little mini studios. So we added landscape architecture, we added graphic design, we added more people in planning, more people in tears and then space analytics, which is a whole other story I won't go into today. So we're now really an interdisciplinary design firm. And it was right around that time that we started saying, we have this body of knowledge and work, let's share it. So we developed this poster. And the first time we did it in 1998, where we took figure grounds, we created figure ground growings of all these different campuses, there's UVA all at the same scale. And then we also collected data like how many acres, how many beds, how many square feet. And we started bringing this to a series of conferences and giving them away and people then we'd like go to a client's office and they'd be on the wall, we're like, oh, this is a pretty good idea. So we've done that since then. Ever since 1998, we've done, I don't know how many, but whatever 98 to, I guess 20 years have done these posters. So back to the work. So while we have done mostly college university work, we've also done a lot of urban design in the city. And Baltimore City itself is on the Chesapeake Bay. And this is what it used to look like. This is what downtown Baltimore looked like before, you know, man came and started building buildings. And this is what it looked like once the grid of the city was put down. It was a working harbor. It was an extraordinary kind of ecosystem of bringing goods in and then taking them to what is now cabin yards where the Orioles play, which is this incredibly long warehouse. That's where the stuff was stored. Then they'd be put on a train on the B&O railroad and they'd be shipped out to the United States. So over time, that beautiful grid of the city and its working harbor, much like Back Bay, was infilled. So this is now the shape of the harbor today. And the grid of the city was eroded and kind of broken by well-intentioned but poorly informed series of mayors and this guy, Jim Rouse, who created Harbor Place. And they did that by kind of blocking the streets and turning the water, the buildings on the waterfront, turning their backs on the city and focusing on the water. So that's what it looks like today with this kind of cut through here that is an impossible intersection in Baltimore. So we were hired to do a master plan for this entire area, for the entire inner harbor. And so we started off by saying, where are the good areas, just like we did at UNC Chapel Hill? And where are the bad areas? And can we use the good areas to inform the bad areas? So we came up with these broad ideas that are almost all of these are now in some shape or form being implemented of reconnecting the grid back to the water, of creating this loop system, including a pedestrian bridge across the harbor, of creating a series of places with new green infrastructure throughout that loop system, and then a series of places and activities, kind of social places around that loop. So this is what that intersection looks like today and what our proposal, oops, that slide disappeared, it's okay. So this shows that pedestrian bridge that we've proposed in a new arena, which is in the works right now, which we are working on, kind of, conceptual designs with a firm called Populus. The idea of that arena is that it would open to the harbor and you'd be able to look out and see the skyline of Baltimore. And then another big project we've been working on is this old industrial site, which was the home of Allied chemical. And this master plan is also now being built in it. It's a kind of simple idea, again, of extending the grid of the city, creating civic spaces, creating a series of kind of background buildings around those civic spaces, with in this case one honorific building, which is the U.S. La Crosse Hall of Fame. So this is achieved by one big parking garage at grade and then these streets ramp up. So these all slope up to a new ground plane that gets reconstituted and it all slopes back down. So that's that site today. About half these buildings are now built, including this one, which we were the architects for, which is an office building and a new housing tower, which we also were the architects for. And then we're also doing, as a party in our harbor work, a project for the National Aquarium to try to create a new natural wetland adjacent to the National Aquarium. So the National Aquarium are these triangular buildings designed by Cambridge 7, a great Boston firm. And so we're kind of reclaiming the waterfront through new constructed wetlands, which is also underway, kind of an amazing project. And our landscape architecture group just got a National ASLA, American Society of Landscape Architecture Award for this project. I'm almost done. So the other thing that has been extraordinary to watch is the growth of our firm, not only in terms of just people but diversity. And we also, in 2016, transferred all of our ownership from about five people to all of these people. So we became something called an ESOP, which is an employee stock-owned company. So I'm no longer an owner. I now work for everybody else. And all of these people are owners at different levels and at different scales, depending on how long they've been with the firm. So there's Luann, who was doing that drawing in the basement of the Rotunda. But it's been just a wonderful experience for me and my greatest joy is working with people a lot younger than I am. So a couple more projects quickly, including a project we just are finishing up and moving on to the next phase of in China. So we do have a fair amount of work overseas these days. And through our relationship with Johns Hopkins, we were introduced to a client, which is this person right here, whose name is Selena. And she's a billionaire. She has about eight different companies in China. She's a member of the Communist Party, but she is an amazing person. She was just, she actually is still in Baltimore. This is her drawing. She's an artist also. This is her partner. And these are Chinese architects that are our partners that we're working with who are out of Shanghai. So we've been working on this project for a new hospital in Xi'an. And Xi'an was the capital of China before Beijing. It's famous for the terracotta warriors, these thousands of terracotta warriors that were buried by an emperor. But it is a beautiful city unto itself. It's also the birthplace of the Silk Road. It's where all the trading out of China emanated from. So it's a really important city. It has amazing artifacts and traditions. Our site is located about seven and a half kilometers along this kind of beltway from the old historic city in an area of residential high rises. If you are a normal Chinese person right now and you want to see a doctor, this is a hospital project, you go to the hospital in the morning and get on a big line. And when the door opens, like Black Friday, you run in and get a number. And then you wait. And you may not see a doctor that day. This hospital will be different. This hospital will have actual private rooms, of which there are none right now, all because of this woman, Selena. And the government is helping to make it happen. So it'll be very unusual hospital in China. And it'll have a relationship with Johns Hopkins University. So just like you guys are doing in our studio, we started off by doing these diagrams, like different diagrams, and named them. We then started looking at precedents for these diagrams. And in each case, we would show our client both historical precedents, like for this one, the loop of Piazza Navona. And then this is this incredible building in Hong Kong. This is a Cohen-Peterson Fox building, financial center in Hong Kong. The ribbon with the bath of Crescent and this beautiful building by Vignoli. And then the jewel box, the tempietto in the Apple store. And then lastly, the circle, which is the scheme we ended up on. And hospital design is all about patient experience, which relates to how you get there and are dropped off. And there are two pieces to hospitals. There are the inpatient beds where you're getting a serious operation and staying in a bed in the hospital for a while. And there's outpatient where you're coming back to see your doctor, get some chemotherapy, whatever it might be. So this is all the inpatient drop-off in here and then the outpatient drop-off on the outer edge. So there is the final design. And we also organized it around a whole series of ideas that came out of the Chinese culture. I don't really have time to go into all those. But one major one was going back to the original way the city was organized. This is this incredible walled city. And kind of this simple biaxial symmetry is something that you see a lot in Xi'an. So the way this building is organized is one gigantic level of four stories below ground of all underground parking, which is under construction right now. They're actually digging the hole. And then on top of that purple is where the operating rooms are and the technical floors. This is a research building. This is an outpatient building. And then the bed towers sit on top. And that's what it's going to look like. And we're now designing this building like for real instead of at a master plan level. And then our Chinese partners are doing the rest of this. Lastly is a project that we're doing on Providence, so a little closer to home. So I know many of you remember when 95 came up from Connecticut and either went to Boston or went right through downtown Providence and cut off the jewelry district from downtown Providence and from Brown and RISD and Johnson and Wales. And then through miraculous work, the government with federal and state funding moved 95 off of that path over here, which created this big brownfield site, which is now managed by something called the I-95 commission. So the I-95 commission hired a developer that we do a lot of work with called Wexford Science and Technology, who just do buildings at the edge of college campuses and hired us to plan this area. So this is our master plan. And we did this actually initially in concert with Tim Love, who's a great urban designer in Boston. So this is a mixed-use project of primarily speculative buildings for technical companies and startup companies right adjacent to Brown. So this is Brown's medical school. The Rhode Island hospitals are right down here. This is a new where a new power plant that's old power plant has been renovated by the same developer for Brown and RISD. RISD school of nursing is in here. So this is Dyer Street, if you know downtown. This is right where I-95 used to come. So they're using the abutments from the old highway to create this pedestrian bridge, which is almost finished. This will become a new park. So that you can see that's where the bridge is now finished. This is where the park will go. And this is our kind of system of new streets and open spaces. There are all kinds of reasons why the buildings look the way they do. This is a new hotel that's just about to start construction. So the first building is this building which we were lucky to design for Wexford. Its tenants are something called the Cambridge Innovation Center, which is an incubator space for startup companies on the ground floor. Brown's continuing studies on the second floor and then Johnson and Johnson is going to be on the third floor. And this building is kind of like the town hall for the innovation district. It's something called District Hall, which is a part of the Cambridge Innovation Center's brand. So this is almost finished. It's a building that was very much influenced by solar orientation. So the building gets glassier to all glass as it moves to the north face. And then I'm going to end. So that's kind of the story. And I'm just going to end with some eye candy, just like really fast. Just some projects we just got photographed. So this is a new art building. We just finished at Eckhart College in Tampa, Florida. I showed this this morning to Michael Rich and Ann, who was in our meeting earlier. Yeah, saying this is what Roger Williams' art program should be and something like this that takes advantage of the water that is appropriately proper for a really great art department. This is a new student union and dining facility we just finished for Clemson in South Carolina. This is a project that's almost finished. It's actually a renovation in addition for a science building in Washington University. This is a goucher college, a new dining facility at goucher. And these are all kind of buildings that we now have in our mind for like helping to solve Roger, you know, suggesting elements that might relate to solutions for Roger, as you guys call it. This is a new STEM building for a community college, actually called Howard Community College. And a project at University of Maryland that we won with an all glass design. At our interview, this whole thing was glass and like flat roofs, and then there was a donor named Ed St. John, and we were in the middle of schematic design. And they said, oh, we should probably go show this to the donor. And he like blew up and started yelling at us. And he said, this is, I won't, I'm not going to support this building. It needs to be related to the campus. It needs to be a brick. So this is what we ended up with. But this is the inside. So the inside is still quite, I think quite wonderful. It's a general classroom building. This is a new science building at University of Delaware engineering building. And then this is the second to last image, but this is a building I'm really excited about, which is a living building challenge for a little school in Maryland called Washington College that will be net zero building. So that's it. But I did want to end with just the wonderful news that this guy Arado Isosaki at Google them. I think he's like 88. He's old. Just got the Pritzker Prize. And this was another one of the architects that was very influential to me back in those very early days. An hour. Okay, that's not so bad. So that's it for me. I'm happy to take questions. Yeah. I had no idea that that exists. That this existed in Switzerland. I really, I was literally visiting my daughter. And she was at her loom. And I was like, this is a good idea for my talk I'm going to give. So I didn't, that's wonderful for me to hear that I might in some way be connected to that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'd love to learn more about that. And maybe we can reconnect. Any other questions? So no previews of your thinking about Broadway? So we, we're just about a quarter of the way through. And, and all we've done for this, this first like 60 days is meet with people and ask them questions. So I can tell you the results of that. But we haven't started drawing yet. When we do start drawing, I'm, I'm hoping we can enlist, enlist some of the faculty here to sit in the room with us. And I mentioned this to Steve earlier today, mentioned you Edgar. I mean, I think it would be great if when we get into drawing, you guys could pick up the pencils with us and come into the room and roll up our sleeves together. So we shared with our steering committee, which Steve is on and Edgar has also been in that meeting today, the kind of top 10 things we've heard, and they're not all positive. I can share some of them with you if you'd like. Um, so one is that Roger Williams is a very unique and extraordinary place with remarkably unusual and unique programs. And it has an intimacy of scale in terms of class size. And it has these interprofessional schools that are supported by an arts and humanities foundation. And it has incredible outreach into the community and internship programs in the community. It has all these things, none of which are embodied in the way the campus looks. So if Jefferson, we, you know, we always talk about Jefferson talked about the reciprocity between the academic mission and the physical plan of UVA so that the plan would mirror his ideas about American education. So you're, you got Roger Williams also the histories of this place is fascinating, but it is evolved to where it is right now through the leadership of many people. But the facilities have not reflected that. In fact, I would say that the facilities have almost thumbed their nose or gone in the opposite direction like this, the site for the new engineering building. So that's like one big observation, but I think there are a lot of things that are a parable that we collectively could do to reflect more of the ethos of this place. Another is just the first year experience here. It causes you guys as freshmen to live in some of the worst student housing I've ever seen and take classes in some of the worst classrooms I've ever seen. So your first year experience is really crappy. We always say we're like shrinks like we're like psychiatrists and we're holding up a mirror. This is who you are. People are like, no, that's not who I am. But yeah, we tend not to pull punches. I mean, there are people in the room today in this committee that we potentially were insulting. Yeah, that's good. Well, we've heard the same, like we've had, I don't know how many meetings we've had a lot with hundreds of people and we've heard the same things from faculty, staff, students, the town, even we had a crazy meeting with the town this morning, which is a really, it's a whole another series of issues. So those are, but those are like two examples. And so we'll be coming back with a summary of all these observations in the next few weeks. We're also analyzing all the space on campus, how it's being utilized now, what kind of condition it's in, how it could be utilized better, which programs need what kind of space. And that'll all be in a kind of summary report. And then based on that, we'll try to develop some planning principles. And then we'll start drawing in about four weeks. And we'll do it around probably, I'm sensing from our meeting today, we'll do it around maybe two or three big themes. So we might spend one two or three day workshop just on teaching and research space, one just on student life space, maybe one on the grounds and parking and circulation and athletics. And we do what we call paper dolls, where we just test options, usually hand drawn, and then pick the best ideas that everybody thinks are reasonable and that are achievable. I worry that we're going to come up with some ideas that are really expensive. And this institution doesn't have tons of money. I go, no, here's another thing we've heard from almost everyone. Like, why did you come here? I love the new Englandiness of the campus. I love the fact that we're on the water dot, dot, dot, but you can't really see the water. And so this incredible asset like a really amazing site is not taken full advantage of. So that's another thing we're going to try to like blast a hole somewhere, like Seattle, like Olmsteads University of Washington that has that red square that looks towards Mount Rainier or something like that. What do you think should go there? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that idea. I mean, the issue would be just crossing the road and making that a safer circulation. Two of our, so my studio friends over here, two of the schemes we looked at yesterday are suggesting a bridge. Yeah, a circle has been proposed. Yeah, that's a great, I think that's a great suggestion. We've also thought, I've heard it's been suggested, you could create a kind of interdisciplinary program around like global warming and sea change and that could be an institute where you could have people from the sciences and engineering and architecture all together on trying to solve a problem and maybe five years from now you get morphs into another kind of institute. Another was a conference center or hotel, which seems kind of boring to me, but. One of the things I just like to say about Olmsteads is I remember when those posters started coming. I don't know how many mailboxes, I always worried that I was stealing answers and I heard it was getting one because I figured it might be on the mailbox. But those comparative, you know, all the campuses on the same scale and so I appreciated that and it had an enormous impact across the country without just thinking about architecture, urbanism and more campuses. Another thing that I really appreciate is the way you value not just the physical form of the values of the campus idealism in the United States. It's so great to have you in front of everybody because that it's hard to underestimate how essential you've been in this whole field and in appreciating extensive landscapes and design and bringing architecture and landscape and urbanism all together. Well, it's because of Werner Seligman and Fred Coder and Rem Koolhaus. Yeah, I was really lucky. But I'll tell you my students, who I'm proud to call my students, the work they did. So we started off analyzing a bunch of different campuses. Harvard, MIT, Northeastern, UMass, Amherst and then there was a group that did small residential liberal arts colleges. So what were those? Swarthmore, no, Smith, yeah. And they were like far better than anything we've done. I'm serious. Like you guys that did UMass, Amherst did this amazing sociological analysis of Lincoln creating land grant. Will you walk through it? I'll screw it up. Then the World War II, I think maybe. The GI Bill. Yeah, Title IX maybe at some point. Yeah and then they showed how the campus changed and morphed because of these different influences. It was really powerful. All of them work. So the section, did you send that to me, didn't you? This section? I'm not going to be able to find it. Can you describe it? It's amazing. When did you send it last night? Don't read my email. Close your eyes. If someone has another question while I'm looking for this, I can search by name. Remind me of your last name. Oh, she's, well, the two things Haley sent me. Isn't that amazing? It's worth it. Well, it's Roger Williamson. It's the peninsula, so like the campus, there. And why we didn't tell Haley to do this? How'd you figure this out? Or did David tell you actually? The other thing that we were looking at yesterday that Haley sent me is this drawing by Edward Larry B. Barnes of Haystack, Hinkley. Crazy. Any other questions? A what? For Roger Williams? No. I'm so grateful for you for bringing this up because we've talked a lot about Rich White University, Roger Williams University. And we've talked in our studio, we were just talking yesterday about what it's like to be having your family of origin being speaking Spanish and growing up in a Spanish community. We were just talking about it yesterday and coming here and just waiting six months before you found another person who spoke Spanish. And so how can this campus become more diverse, more welcoming to a more diverse community? It's something we've been talking about, but no one's mentioned religion. And the idea that you could have like, there's this beautiful chapel that Moshe Safti designed at the Harvard Business School. That's a non-denominational chapel. And having something here as a part of the student union or a student center is a wonderful idea, particularly given Roger Williams the person. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. You guys have looked at that, hasn't someone looked at that? I think I missed that studio, but yeah, I mean, we'll look at it. And yeah, I have a house in Tiverton, and I know about the wind. It's really windy. Any other questions, thoughts? Yeah, Alameda and Bay Point are both included. Empire. What's empire? Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. And the programs in Providence are incredible. This woman, Jamie, who runs those programs, I've never seen anything like on a college campus where it's all about reaching out to guys that are coming out of prison, and it's fantastic. But yeah, I mean, Alameda is clear that it's outlived its useful life. I mean, my sense right now is we're going to definitely do a scheme that puts all the housing on this campus and suggests doing something else at Bay Point and Alameda. Even though I know people like Bay Point, but I think it's a crappy way to be a student. Our kind of unscientific research says that the campuses with the highest percentage of on-campus housing combined with the lowest percentage of on-campus cars are the highest ranked in U.S. News and World Report. So it's unfair in a way because like Princeton, 100% of the students live there and have the dinky so you can get right into Manhattan. But like Swarthmore and Haverford, they house 100% of their students and they house 80% of their faculty in little wood-frame shingle style houses on the campus. What do you guys think of the lawn, whatever it's called, the space between the architecture school and the road? People like that space. You think it's a good kind of thing to see as you arrive on campus or arrive into Bristol? Right. Yeah, there's a giant snowball out there right now. All right, well if there are no other questions, thank you all again very much. Thanks for inviting me.