 It's just something right over here in case, okay? No, I can sit here and say, yeah. Yeah, if I feel anything strongly, I'll just pop in like this. Yeah, please do. And do you think that after this, we should read the actual recommendation? Yes. Okay, I do. This is not ours, right? I don't know, I think it was just sitting around. Okay, let's get started. Okay. The commission is made up of volunteers with expertise or interest in historic preservation and design. We generally meet on the second Thursday of the month to review cases. Staff to the commission are our urban designer and historic preservation staff. They are available to answer questions if you have them, but please do not interrupt proceedings if you do indeed need to speak with one of them. The meeting generally proceeds with the staff calling the case and describing it. Excuse me. I will call for the applicant to come forward afterward and add to the basic description of the request if necessary or if the applicant wishes to do so. If so, the applicant should keep the presentation to 10 minutes or less. The commissioners will then have the opportunity to ask questions. At this point, I will ask if there is anyone in the audience who wishes to speak for or against the proposal. Audience comments shall be kept to two minutes per person. If there is, the applicant will have an opportunity to respond. This rebuttal shall not exceed five minutes. In most of the cases, we will make a decision tonight after all information has been presented. If your case is denied or if you feel that our decision was made an error, you and anyone with standing have the opportunity to appeal it within 30 days of the decision. If you plan to speak about a specific project you must have signed in. The sheet is at the back of the room. Also and so that members of the public understand, commissioners are under strict instructions to avoid discussing DDRC meetings and applications with members of the public or with each other outside of these proceedings to avoid ex parte communications. If you wish to speak during the course of these proceedings, please stand and raise your right hand. You have a firm to tell the truth in these proceedings. If staff would please call the roll. Mr. Boknight. Mr. Bram. Mr. Kohn. Ms. Moore. Mr. Saveri. Here. We have quorum. Thank you. Does the agenda still send? We've had a few changes to the agenda since publication. Under the regular agenda, we had deferred 20 Governors Hill. This has been set up for a subcommittee for October 15th from 3 to 5 p.m. just as a note. Also 700 Gervais, 1100 Wayne Street, the request for a certificate of site plan approval only has been deferred until next month. 1917 Pickin Street, request for a certificate of design approval for exterior changes and appeal to staff decision in the Landmark District has been withdrawn. Those are all of the changes. Thank you. The DDRC utilizes a consent agenda for those projects which require DDRC review but which meet the guidelines and typically require no discussion. If anyone wishes to discuss an item on the consent agenda, I will ask that you speak up after the consent agenda is read and we can pull the item for discussion onto the regular agenda. If staff would please read the consent agenda. Our first item is 316 Hayward Street, a request for a certificate of design approval for new construction of an accessory dwelling in the Granby Architectural Conservation District. The next case is 1300-1304 Assembly, 1103-1113 Lady Street, request for a certificate of site plan approval for new construction in the City Center Design Development District. And last is 3204 Klein Street, a request for design approval for exterior changes and addition and new construction of an accessory structure in the Melrose Heights Oakland Architectural Conservation District. Thank you. Is there anyone who wishes to take an item off the consent agenda for discussion? In none, could I have a motion to approve the consent agenda and the meeting minutes from last month? Mr. Chairman, I'll make the motion that we approve the September minutes and the consent agenda as it stands. Is there a second? Second. We have a vote. Mr. Bachmite. Yes. Mr. Brim. Yes. Mr. Cohn. Yes. Ms. Moore. Yes. Mr. Saferi. Yes. Motion passes. Thank you. Could we have the first case on the regular agenda then, please? The first case is 700 Dervais and 1100 Wayne Street. This is a request for a certificate of design approval for new construction. It's in the Innovista Design District and also partly in the West Dervais Street Historic Commercial District. This design before the commission is for an 11-story hotel, which spans both the Innovista Design District and the West Dervais Historic Commercial District. The proposed hotel is set far off Dervais Street, about 450 feet, back behind the historic depot, which is now Wet Willys. While the proposed building falls largely within the Innovista Design District, the front facade and some square footage of the side elevations also fall within the West Dervais Historic District. Therefore, both sets of guidelines apply here and are compatible with one another. Each are reliant upon contextual setting, which in this case is simple and largely streamlined and which happily provides a solid basis for modern architecture in a historic context. The principles of both sets of guidelines largely align. Some examples which staff discussed with the applicants that have been successful are the Convention Center and the Vista Lofts buildings. These buildings are successful contemporary and contextual buildings, which have clear concepts and simple forms. Please note that because the building is set far back from Dervais Street, the first few stories will essentially be hidden from view and do not address the street. Therefore, guidelines addressing storefronts, pedestrian interaction, et cetera, from both sets of guidelines will not apply here. However, because of the building height, the visual impact of the building will be great in both the Innovista District as well as the historic commercial district. And we just picked a couple of the relevant comments out of the evaluation to articulate and then we will let the applicant do a presentation. So under architectural style and theme, this is an opportunity for creative, contextual, new construction in the area and the applicants expressed an interest in a concept that is innovative. The applicants are proposing brick and glass as the major materials, both of which are permitted. The concrete tower on the east elevation is a reference to the more industrial nature of the districts as well as to the adjacent Adlou facility. While neither set of guidelines requires a given architectural style, they do require that the building have a clear style and relate to itself as well as to its context. Given the fact that this building is so much bigger than anything adjacent, the composition of features and materials should be used in a way that helps to visually reduce the scale of the building. Section 2.0.4 of the Innovista guidelines says, architecture should be urban and therefore flexible for various businesses over time. A building should not be so strongly identified with a single business that it cannot reasonably be adapted to another use in the future. Corporate identity should be contained in signage or front displays in our artwork. The prominent guitar reference on the primary facade is directly associated with the themed hotel, contrary to the design guidelines. The architecture should stand alone as a strong example of a well-designed building in a historic context, apart from its branding as a music-themed hotel. There are plenty of opportunities to reference the theme with signage and on the interior of the building and with artwork that is not integrated into the architecture. Likewise, the historic guidelines also advise against exaggerated features. Section 2.0.4 avoid exaggerated features that are out of proportion to the building or that detract from the overall character of the building and district. The proposed guitar head is not compatible with this guideline. It is an exaggerated feature and detracts from the historic character of the district. The staff recommendation says, while there are a number of outstanding concerns with the design, staff would recommend approval conditional upon these items being addressed with some design revisions, then reviewed and approved by staff prior to permitting. The recommendation as follows, to approve the design for 700-Durvay and 1100 Wayne Street based on the pertinent sections as listed in the innovative district and the West-Durvay commercial historic district guidelines conditional upon the following, that the guitar head be removed from the exterior of the building, the angled supports at the roof be removed or simplified to vertical supports, the horizontal projecting windows on the rear facade be removed, the punched-window openings be at least 8 inches deep, the tall vertical window on the north facade be given depth for articulation, the mullion pattern on the punched windows be consistent with the earlier design submitted for the informational presentation, details of the street design and materials to be worked out with staff, signage may be deferred to staff that will require approval by the zoning department as well, and that any other details be deferred to staff. Thank you. Does the applicant wish to present? I believe they have brought a separate power grant, so we might just give a couple of minutes for that to be switched over. All right. Hello, my name is Stephen Knapp. I'm here on behalf of Ben Arnold. He's not here for a religious holiday. Have you been sworn in? Sign in the back. I did. Brian Hustin is our design architect on this project. Commissioner, it's nice to see you again. It's been about a month. Brian Hustin, colonel Tamari Architects out of Long Beach. We received the staff report comments and kind of went through it, so the staff has been very kind to us so far. What we thought we would like to do is show you some of the changes that have been made since we first presented the project, submitted it and to where it stands today so that you can see the changes. We've been listening. We've been trying to make the project simpler and hopefully we're achieving what you're looking for. Let's see if I can get this to work. A lot of this is familiar from last time. The goals that we're trying to do is create a pedestrian experience in a historic area with an entertainment overlay, trying to create an overall pathway between the arena all the way to the Gervais Street. We noticed the night of our last meeting after the hoodie concert that so many of the attendees were already working their path through the back areas to the various bars on Gervais. The path is already there. We think it can be more pleasant. We would like to draw upon it. This is the first step of a multi-phase project to encourage a zone of pedestrian flow and pedestrian plazas through our project to the rest of Gervais. Again, we're trying to create something that we're very proud of. It becomes a beacon to an entertainment area. That's why we're trying to put a little bit of fun at the top of the tower so it can be seen a little bit further away. As we recall, the property is actually made of two properties, a back railroad area that it will be converted and the existing entertainment center right now. The site plan remains as it is. Let me go a little bit further. This is the end of the building that faces the Adla mill tower right now. These are the changes that have been made since we first submitted. We took two floors out of the tower. One was a meeting room level on level two, and we took out another guest room level. This happened about the same time that we went to the BOSA commission for the height variance, but we didn't pull it out because of height when we came in. We didn't need that much area for this particular component of our project. Two floors came out. The connector that actually is shown in this image connecting to the depot building is no longer going to be a connector. It will be a service yard with a historic facade to try and disguise what might be cooling towers and generators there right now. We have a lot of engineering applications on what that is. Tapestry will always read as a separate building. I'm sorry, you have a question? Yes. No. I'm sorry. That connector piece won't be there. It will be replaced by something about one and a half stories tall. We reduced the amount of pop out bay windows that were on the floor. We simplified the sign element and the structure that was supporting the sign. We were originally taking our inspiration from the chaotic mess on top of the steel going in different directions, the shadow play, the conduits coming down and we're trying to capture that same kind of industrial feel of there. I guess maybe perhaps we went too far. We're trying to get the canopy to something a little bit more straightforward. This is what we are actually proposing. Two stories less, simplified signage, simplified roof structure and you're seeing the kind of element that's between the depot and the tapestry hotel that may be a screen for mechanical equipment on the ground level. Next to it is a small canopy to a new speakeasy lounge that will be in the basement of the project which was new since last time as well. Also the addition of the sculptural guitar head at the top. I think in the review by planning they felt that this element was actually holding up the roof. It is not, it's a free standing element and the idea is to create a look, a vibe that can be seen from far away. Also on the rooftop lounge there it's an opportunity for our celebrities to sign their name and you can get pictures with it if you're at the bar up there. So it's kind of a selfie station, great opportunity to see all of Columbia and downtown and should this project ever become some music theme that we're trying to tell here. So again the initial submittal we had pop out windows on the roof. We brought those in board and recessed that slightly. So here it is a little bit smaller, a little bit tighter. This was the original. I look pretty good at the time. But with your help now it looks a little bit better. And you're seeing the canopy on the lower right hand side going into the speakeasy restaurant. So we'll both have an internal elevator connection and an extension of our lobby lounge and dining area. So that you'll be able to lounge and dine outside on the promenade to the entertainment area. The initial rendering. The revised rendering that we're showing right now. You can see the sign is simplified. You can see the shot here of Adela and the guitar head is almost the same size as the A and Adela. This is where we were before. Where we are now. So I think it's this shot here that really shows the drop down in the taking out of the two floors. And that's kind of where we are. Where we were. Where we are. So as you get on Gervais it's becoming less and less of an impact area. Some of the existing shots. When I was here last time I spoke about this being the first component of a multi-phase project and at that time I wasn't allowed to show you what the next project might look like. So we've discussed it internally and I wanted to show you what that second piece is. So that you kind of understand what we're trying to do here. So the second piece you see tapestry is located in the blue area over where it says existing entertainment area. The next project we're working on is a hotel in what's called the future expansion area directly across the yellow plaza from tapestry. And this is a large convention hotel that will connect directly to the convention center. So what we're trying to do here in the family of components is make sure each component has a personality that can stand on its own. So that we're not trying to morph these all together and figure out why you would stay at one place and not another. Each one has a personality. There's elements that tie things together but we're trying to make a reason why you would want to stay here over another. And in this particular instance for tapestry we're trying to do it was a music theme something a little not normal, something a little bit more bad boy and we're hoping that has appeal to some people. But this is a shot of the next future hotel that we're trying to do a lot more straightforward or hoping it looks great tremendous amount of light and window play and with a direct connection to the convention center with additional ballrooms and meeting rooms. So the entry you can see here about the middle of the shot that faces directly the tapestry hotel. So we just wanted to show you that we've been thinking about the other various components and that in conjunction with what you see in tapestry and hear that there is a personality difference so that people can make a choice but as other components get developed they're much more traditional at least the next one will be. So I don't want to stay on the screen too long but I wanted to share that with you. I'm available for any questions that you might have. Before we move on to hear from any members of the audience who want to speak if there are any points of clarification that we have for the applicant before we move on. Can you go back to a couple of the slides you had that showed the before and after? I don't think those are in our packet are they? Okay. You can just go through that one time briefly one more. Okay. Thanks. Yeah so in reviewing everything the initial submittal this happens to be the west side so a lot more pop outs on here trying to create something chaotic has its own personality stands out it's different from everything around here but we felt it stood up well against ADLAW which is also chaotic we don't ever see that building going away and because it's an industrial element we were kind of inspired by that so something not necessarily ordered not since essentially convention but we back that up with the last hotel that we show you that is a lot more straightforward. So again to try and create a series of personalities and what we're using is the top expression of the building in terms of a cantilevered awning or cantilevered trellis element of the various buildings to try and create a hat gives us the opportunity to bounce light off of these structures at night so far away you can identify the project not necessarily without having to see the sign but kind of identifying there's a fun zone to go to or if you're at the arena I hope light the way towards what you should be walking towards. Anything else? Thank you. This is in regard to the future expansion presentation on the your slide future expansion I was looking at the flood and you said earlier about the high balls for pedestrians whatever is that your proposal what I see in red from Gervais to that yellow area? Yes what we envision is two plazas between the tapestry hotel on the left and the hotel that I showed you at the end is more of a motor court plaza where all the cars come in and drop off at the hotels but the other plaza is a pedestrian plaza where they might have farmers markets many concerts outside or dining areas that would spill out to that and it's a purely a pedestrian zone so the idea is as the red line to the right hand side that connection would continue all the way to the arena and there's bigger plans that I don't feel comfortable discussing right now but there's bigger thoughts involved so again you're seeing the beginnings of hopefully something wonderful but we're trying to set ourselves up that you have a population there at the arena they're either going to an event or coming back we have restaurants we have bars we have entertainment it's a natural to try and pull them back in this area so that's what we're trying to do in an environment that's nicer than what it is right now it's a little industrial feeling back there people may not have great lighting but we're trying to create a pathway to come to our development well today they're walking on the brick pavement to the back yes the planning comments indicate that we were removing the brick and replacing with asphalt that is not our case the brick entry drive that's right in there we love it it's been beaten up by the delivery trucks that go to the adela flour mill so what we're trying to do in this development also is get the adela delivery trucks to come in another way and that we use that kind of extension of gattison cross-survey as our main entry to our two hotels so we kind of want to bring that back and we're going to be hiring a landscape designer to help us with that so maybe a combination of concrete paving with brick infill but we want to capture that feeling that's there now because it's really quite nice I was going to bring that up about creating a strip to commemorate what's there now not go away completely we hope to use everything that's available that's still functional we're hoping to use everything that's still functional to use it somewhere else in the project whether it be planter boxes, strips and the concrete whatever we can use we want to use again thank you good I think for the moment we're good thank you very much thank you at this point I'm going to ask for anybody in the audience who wishes to speak for or against the project I'm going to ask for those who wish to speak for the project first and I assume the applicant won't have any rebuttals to those who want to speak for but if you do as we go through it for the sake of time just raise your hand and I'll let you come up and speak and the other thing I would like to say again in the interest of time is please be mindful when you come to the podium of our purview we're not about economic development we are only about the exterior appearance of the building as it pertains to the design guidelines so I would very much appreciate if folks would keep their comments to that narrow purview and so with that is there anyone who wishes to speak for the project have you been sworn in state your name my name is Bart Walrath I'm a resident of the Vista and president of the Vista neighborhood association the Vista neighborhood association approves and is excited about the boutique full service tapestry hotel and affiliated food and beverage venues including the rooftop bar I applaud the unique music theme design features in the plan these features give the hotel character and certainly are in tune with the arts and entertainment designated cultural district that is the Vista I encourage the DDRC to endorse these design features thank you anyone else who wishes to speak for the application sir and you've been sworn in and state your name please thank you Mr. chairman members of the commission I am Matt kennel I represent the city center partnership the main street district but we are really excited about this hotel in the adjacent Vista district I think Mr. Arnold and his company have done a wonderful job of addressing the design guidelines for a project that not only fits with the existing Vista neighborhood but also relates to the total redevelopment of downtown Colombia in particular I like the musical elements of the building I think that as was stated earlier by Bart I think that adds to the project it fully represents the Vista entertainment district there I know there was some concern by staff which I respect very much about making the building stand out for future uses but in its future uses whether it be residential or commercial it's in the Vista entertainment district and I think those elements would continue to be integral in the future so for those reasons we very much support this project as presented thank you anyone else who wishes to speak for the applicant application I'm sorry I can't hear you sure this is from Ben Arnold I truly believe that this conversation piece meaning the guitar head alone will bring more people to downtown to see what it is all about we can't let guidelines interfere with the vibrancy and economic benefit of this hotel as well as future projects and then he goes on to say that one of the edicts of the DDRC is to promote the pedestrian interaction and he feels that this is does that thank you anyone else who wishes to speak for the project I'm Craig Otto I'm not only a local resident so I have great interest in this project I have a lot of appreciation for what the Vista does the Vista Guilds website says that among other things that they're charged with seeing that Columbia's Vista is an official South Carolina cultural district a vibrant symbol of our progressive southern city and dedicated to making the Vista a place of choice for shopping, dining and entertainment also a high energy urban environment to live and grow businesses I believe the architecture should reflect that dedication as well the guitar head is a very prominent part of the hotel obviously to reflect the entertainment part of the Vista it actually reflects the personality of the Vista very well being arts and entertainment staff mentioned that in their report that the guitar head was a guitar sculpture I believe they're perfectly correct in referring it to that as the element does appear to me as a piece of sculpture a form of art which of course is fully representative of the entertainment and arts district that we have in the Vista and it's high place and prominent location above is very easy to see and to me is almost a display of art so I actually think that it's a very exciting potential piece to fit into the Vista although the developers may not like that I have this to say I think that the staff's point of the angled supports for the cantilevered roof I think that the building might be improved without those as the roofline would be much more dramatic with the large overhangs without the visible supports and that would make the guitar stand out even better and I think it would be more representative of the district so thank you I'm in support of the guitar head thank you I was not last meeting do you promise to tell the truth in these proceedings excuse me I'm sorry I asked you if you've been sworn in I was not sworn in do you promise to tell the truth in these proceedings I do thank you and Fred Delcum the executive director of the Columbia Development Corporation we work with economic development projects in the Vista area not here to speak about the specifics of the design feature that's your job and that staff's job and I really truly appreciate your help in doing that just wanted to mention as we've heard this appears to be the first of a new spurt of growth in the Vista I've experienced a couple of those and it feels like we're getting ready to start a new probably hundred million dollar growth spurt in the area around this hotel with this being the first project and it was nice to see the preview of the second project unique features in the neighborhood tend to be a positive thing and love having the idea of having hundreds of additional overnight residents in the area with their credit cards spending money I think this is going to be a wonderful thing for our neighborhood thank you is there anyone else who wishes to speak for the project is there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to the project okay then at this point we are ready to deliberate among ourselves I would love to encourage anybody on the commission to speak up I would say that I've been very excited to see the amount of attention that's been paid to the surrounding area particularly what the fabric of the Vista represents haven't been a business there for a decade I'd like to give the architect kudos for really trying to pull at the neighboring buildings and think this is a really good thing for the Vista that said I think the guitar head really is a feature that I would like to see on the building I think it really is a detail that kind of fits with the theme and what they're trying to achieve I do not like the angle supports I do think it would be better if the canopy was out self-supported without them I know we spoke last time about the windows being recessed deeper I'm not sure I can tell from here if that was actually done or not but I think that would be something that would add a lot of value to the exterior of it and I would agree with I would agree with the other comments on here but that's just kind of my take Thank you Anyone else I more or let's agree with Commissioner Cohn's comments with the exception of the guitar head I have to say and I may be outnumbered by the other members of the commission I agree with I agree with all of staff's comments my concern about the guitar head when you all were here for the informational session I remember saying that I wasn't convinced by the I wasn't convinced by the musical metaphor as it pertains to actually architectural features it seemed to direct and I did not expect it would go in the opposite direction that it would actually be a multi-story guitar neck with a giant guitar head on top which to me seems more in keeping with something that you might expect to see in Myrtle Beach or Las Vegas I think that the building has tremendous character I think it's an exciting building I actually like the pop-out windows I would like to see and I certainly hope that it makes it into the motion for the other windows to have that eight inch recess I think that depth is very very important I don't I think that the angled supports are actually I would agree with another comment that was made earlier taking away from the drama of the potential floating roof all of those comments I agree with and I think that the lower building it's going to be extremely prominent as it is and I think that a little bit lower is probably more sensitive I don't believe that the some of the other features like the guitar neck and head need to be there to distinguish it from the next hotel that's coming along by virtue of having seen a sneak preview of the next hotel they're going to be extremely different from each other I don't think that they need further differentiation and my concern is if the guitar head which is again my concern about it is the sheer scale I mean it's clearly there as a guitar neck and a guitar head and if you take the head off then the neck just becomes I think that facade becomes the least successful facade of all for the facades if we could go back to that I really feel as if this is the sort of thing that in architecture school the professors would have said well if you're dependent upon something like a guitar head to make the design work then you probably need to rethink the design because if you take that thing off and you look at that strip of glass and those mullions that are spaced a couple of feet apart in order to represent guitar strings you don't have a very strong facade it depends on that head and I think that the building itself is spectacular I think that actually is a very superficial gesture that isn't necessary on the building so I if you think of it as just fenestration and you don't think of it as a gigantic guitar neck and you think of those mullions there and you think of this as some future use it doesn't make any sense as fenestration so I've said my piece about the guitar neck and the guitar head I would get back to the other comments that I think the building really does need recess the glazing recessed it needs those punches for the texture for the size and scale of the building and other than what I just mentioned I think that I'm very excited about the building coming I think it's going to be a fantastic addition to the Vista I think that you know I would back up and say the one thing about the guitar head which seems to be the big thing that everybody's talking about it's only showing up at the very last minute we've seen three iterations before we got to the guitar head so I don't think that the design depends upon the guitar head or the guitar neck I think it stands very well without that and I think it actually is a better design without it I think it's stronger and will stand the test of time better so that's my point of view I don't know how the rest of the commission feels about that but the applicant is welcome to respond if you'd like to any of what we're saying up here on behalf of Ben again one of the things that we were trying to do and may not be showing up properly in this rendering we wanted to keep the curtain wall kind of similar to the backside have it have it actually pop out we actually recessed it because of our last kind of informational meeting to have less pop outs on the front side our ideal way to do this would be to have the curtain wall pop out have the mullions similar to actually I found two other buildings in downtown Columbia that have a similar mullion to where whether the heads on there or not it still is going to give us the effect that we want and we can still put the head on if you mind if I show you those there's actually the main one you guys are probably all know is the main and lady at that building you're referring to the first citizens building that mullion pattern is consistent around the building so it's part and parcel of the overall design of the building it would be a similar pattern on the backside as well the one on the backside is a little bit fatter but we could we could do something similar on the front side so it still flows and then whether the heads there or not it still works it's still functional an architectural feature but doesn't make it look just like guitar strings this is the idea that we're going with the rendering probably didn't show that properly okay well yeah I would say that to be the litmus test would be does the design survive without the guitar head and if the answer is maybe maybe not that it may be to revisit any other questions please I really am impressed with the effort that you all put into making the building connect with everything else in the vista and abide by the guidelines I think the guitar head creates a disconnect from the rest of the buildings in the vista and it takes away in my opinion from the aesthetics of the beautiful building you've designed any other comments can I go back to the the front elevation from last time I almost like that better I think this is all on the record so what he said was I don't feel as strongly for as you feel against any more comments that said Mr. Cohen would you please make a motion sure I would like to make the motion that we approve the applicant's request for a certificate of design approval for the new construction at 700 Jervais and 1100 Wayne Street in the Inna Vista Design and West Jervais Street Historic District with the following conditions that the guitar head be removed from the exterior of the building the angled supports at the roof be removed or simplified to vertical supports or removed altogether the horizontal projecting windows on the rear facade be removed punch window openings be at least 8 inches deep the tall vertical window on the north facade be given depth for articulation the mullion pattern on the punch windows be consistent with the earlier design provided for the informational presentation designs of the of the street details of the street design and materials to be worked out with staff signage may be deferred to staff but will require approval by the zoning department as well and all other details referred to staff second we have a vote please Mr. Bach Knight Mr. Bram yes Mr. Savery yes motion passes thank you can I have any questions thank you next case please the next case is under the historic part of the agenda it is 808 Sims Avenue this is a request for a certificate of design approval exterior changes in the Oakwood Court Architectural Conservation District Rachel Walling is here to present the case no wait for our our point to come back up I'll just get started we have the images in your packet so this is a request for certificate of design approval to paint brick this is a circa 1930s two-story brick veneer colonial revival house clad and variegated brick hand mortar the windows have brick cells with soldier course headers exterior chimneys also have soldier course detailing at their tops so it's being reloaded it's going to take a few minutes so generally the house is fairly minimal in terms of detailing the variegated brick veneer being one highly visible historic detail the applicant has listed out reasons for requesting painting the brick which is included in your packets some of those reasons some of those reasons include damaged brick cracks from settling incompatible repair jobs as well as a couple areas that will require some brick infill on the side and the rear of the house see that now so the guidelines state to identify, retain and preserve masonry features that are important to defining a historic character such as walls, joint unit size tooling, bonding patterns, coatings and colors and to repair a place where necessary deteriorated material duplicating in size, shape, texture as the original as closely as possible so while staff would recommend cleaning the brick to better fully assess the condition staff has not observed any brick damage or deterioration beyond common and easily repairable brick maintenance issues there are the couple areas that would require brick infill and staff suggest finding a brick to match or using these stairs here which they have already indicated will likely need to be replaced these stairs are on the back of the porch so they're not visible from the street and wouldn't require staff review to remove so for staff recommendation staff finds that the proposed exterior change of painting the brick veneer at 808 Sims is not in keeping with section 8-4 of the Oakwood Court Architectural Conservation District design guidelines and recommends denial thank you the applicant here wish to speak Travis Blayton with preferred asset management and you have been sworn in yes I have we signed it in and back I would like to hand out as well we went and used the plat map to the neighborhood to count the houses that have already been painted versus those that are not and also have a letter from a resident stating that they would be in support of the painting as well due to the appearance of the property staff seen this material no and so to be quick there are 51 homes Oakwood Court area 8 of which are have siding 29 of which are unpainted 9 of which have painted brick and 5 houses that have siding with brick that is also painted as well gives us 38 all brick homes 24% of those have been painted either a yellow cream color or gray and 43 homes with some sort of brick feature in which 34% have been painted and so that is kind of the dynamic of the neighborhood there and it is going to be impossible for us to do repairs where we install new brick that matches just due to the age of the property we can find the style but the coloration that it has been there while weathered it is not going to match we also brought our contractor as well Jeff Boland to kind of go over any contractor stuff on that I don't do that for a living so he can answer any questions and if Jeff has anything as well I am done if you all have any questions for me if not I'll let Jeff come up any questions for the applicant sir are you a resident of this house? I am not we purchased a house to renovate it and resell so there is not a resident? I am not a resident have you been sworn in? Jeff Boland JB construction working with these guys to renovate this home not really hiding anything here you saw the pictures the house is struggling as it is looks wise this investment group is investing it is important to know they are investing as much as they bought the property for and painting is part of that the original proposal if we can go to the front you may have seen it when it first came up but there has obviously been repairs throughout time if you look below the triple window there on the front you see a gray mortar diagonal if you look above the triple window you will see what I can only guess was a canopy at some time that has been repaired with a gable there you see the awning on the left side of the porch there left elevation has been removed and was approved in the office there is anchors there there is chip bricks where that was attached those things will have to be repaired there is chip bricks more on the rear side which is not what we are necessarily looking at but there are cracks crevices throughout the building if you had a close up you would see four different mortar colors from over the years repairs have been made we would be the fifth we can match the color all we want to but the age is going to be different you do see where vines this is the cleaned up version of this house you do see where vines were growing around the porch fireplaces you can't see but with what these guys are investing with the neighborhood houses that are painted we are not asking to be the first we are just asking to be another I think it would greatly increase the value of the home would fit in with the neighborhood obviously with some landscaping shutters that kind of stuff I think they deserve the return on their investment I don't think it will be a hindrance to the neighborhood there was some discussion on the mortar joints the mortar joints are tooled vertically or horizontally one of the vertical I think is a tooled joint and the horizontal horizontal is just a straight joint which is pretty neat we would preserve that it would just be covered in paint we are not redoing thinking we are looking at a white cream color with a different color shutter obviously repairing the front porch that has some right and I will also note the windows will remain original we would paint those to fit the color scheme of the house in this picture you can also see the soffits which are a brown almost a garnet if you see them in person we have removed all that we intend to preserve and redo crown molding that is rotten after taking that off we noticed holes where squirrels were getting in and that was the whole purpose of that metal being placed there I don't know if that was ever approved or how that was permitted or if it was permitted but the soffits will be drastically improved as far as looks go as that I think my biggest point is with the money being spent on a project that if you would have seen it before the trees were cleared you could barely see the house and now that you can see the house it lacks a little bit of character so I guess what I'm saying is I think these guys deserve the ability to regain on their investment while improving the neighborhood thank you thank you is there anyone here who wishes to speak for or against this project any comments from sir go ahead have you been sworn in have you been sworn in okay state your name I'm Kimberly Flicker I am the adjacent neighbor to this property recent very recent neighbor I'm not actually sure if I'm for or against the painting of this I'm actually here more on just learning this process myself I would actually be curious if houses were painted prior to or after the architectural design went into place because there are quite a few houses that have that and our house was I think part of a group of houses that were flipped as part of this not through your company as my understanding but what I can say is that as you've already said there were a lot of trees they were beautiful actually the adjacent lot next to this even further had more trees and there's another development project going there but lots of people have commented to me I'm not the owner of this house wow you're doing some really great work and the work that has been done has been very impressive to a lot of people it's my understanding that our neighborhood has a lot of history I'm honest, I love the brown I don't know how hard it is I'm not a contractor how to fix any of that but I would say the part of the reason we had these design rules was to stick to that plan our house had an addition put on with all these rules as well I just, I don't know I want to say help it be beautiful and thank you for considering their proposal I don't know that added any information but thank you anyone else sir I just want to make clear I've heard a couple times that trees were removed we have not removed trees there was shrub brushes and weeds that were about five and a half feet tall and you could not see the house from the road so we pulled that back and down we will go back with side and mature bushes up against the house and things like that to keep the look of the neighborhood the same trees are not our purview thank you I just wanted to say thank you for your comments and I'm not sure which neighborhood you are but there is an adjacent house to the left of this that was recently remodeled and it has hardy plank which is a beautiful house looks good, hardy plank new faux shutters that kind of stuff I would just make the comment that I'm pretty sure when this house was built or these houses were built hardy plank was not a building material so there are some changes to the additions and changes to as we respect the historical guidelines in this instance we are just asking to beautify a project while preserving what we can furnaces doors windows that kind of stuff and as he said obviously there is a landscape plan that would come later thank you I have a couple of questions please so the guidelines about not painting were in place when you purchased the house or had the house a long time I mean we have owned the house since February of this year so they would have been in place so what were your plans when you purchased the house if you were not going to be able to paint the house we don't currently have a plan for that so we will have to go back to the road and see what we need to repair and hopefully we can make it look seamless and match what's there to the best of our ability if we can then it's going to be an eyesore but we will try to the best of our abilities to match what's there the review process is here for this the microphone please the review process is here for that reason and that's why we are here today if you tell us no no is no but I mean I think I just didn't know how long you had owned it I'm sorry I just didn't know how long you had owned it that's all thank you I have a question for you I'm looking at the front elevation double windows at the top and triple windows down below did you repoint that brick to make it look like it's been a year or was it like that when you bought it I'm sorry say it one more time who repointed the brick you didn't do it you haven't done anything yet that is how the exterior looked they haven't done any work yet so do you see any evidence of settlement in that brick been there any evidence of what I'm sorry sir any separation there are places that need to be pointed at that means you got to repoint it yes sir that means the mortar is not going to match not necessarily that was what I was saying I've counted four different mortars that have been used over the years we would be the fifth and she's got a picture up there some of the some of the spots that would need to be done thank you you're talking about matching brick and this is a good slide to speak to because obviously there's a quite a variety of different bricks in this facade so I mean I know I've done brick repair to billions that are in much worse shape and much older than this and you know where it's not variegated in this case you've got in this photograph it looks like there are one two four or five different different bricks randomly assorted in the in the facade so it's not one brick that you're trying to match perfectly I'm not sure do you know where that picture was taken because there's been several additions to this project on the rear I'm not so certain that the right side porch that was shown on the front elevation was not added at some point so I hear what you're saying completely and that may be the case the majority of the field of view the field brick seems to be consistent as you see on my left I guess it would be your left if you're looking the same with the texture brick that's not something that I can run down to lows or run down to bore oil or whatever and pick up but it's available you can get it I guess my challenge in all this is I commend the effort I think what you're doing is great but we're really tasked with upholding these guidelines that were put here for a purpose and just saying you can paint it because other people did really establish as a poor precedent and as much as I love painted houses I also find that this is beautiful too and that we're preserving something instead of just painting over it I have a specific question to staff because this other lady spoke asked the question I think it's a question I wanted to ask are there other contributing structures in the neighborhood that since the guidelines were in place the ERC has allowed to be painted that you know of I'm not aware of any I'm aware of some requests that have come through that word didn't I this has come before us a few times where I think we're not here to give a pass because people didn't know the guidelines when they purchased the property and the neighbors that conformed to the guidelines when they were put in place have us here entrusted in the fact that we'll remember that I personally know these could be pointed up with the right amount of effort and attention and had to do it plenty of time so I think just going to Lowe's or hiring a Mason that's not very qualified it's not going to get the work the way you want but there are a lot of guys out there that can do this I've had the same experience on the other side of our architectural construction industry any other comments can I say one thing I'm also one of the owners of the property are there any instances where you've approved the brick in addition to adding other things to preserve the historic feel of the neighborhood where we could add something else in order to make that work I don't know the answer it's a hypothetical question but I don't think any of us know the answer any other comments before we move I ask for a motion could I, would somebody care to make a motion yeah I'll make the motion at 808 Sims Avenue that the request for a certificate a design approval for exterior changes be denied based on the painting of the brick not being in keeping with section 8 section 8 4 of the Oakwood Court architectural conservation district guidelines thank you and is there a second we have a vote please Mr. Bach Knight Mr. Brown Mr. Cone Ms. Moore Mr. Savry the motion passes next case please this is 1229 made in Lane this is a request for certificate of design approval for new construction of a single family home a vacant lot within the Melrose Heights Oak Lawn architectural conservation district the proposal also includes a one and a half storey garage at the rear of the property generally the proposal meets the guidelines for height size and scale and setback staff recommendations focused primarily on overall detailing details are consistent within the property and compatible with the neighborhood and related to the massing of the front elevation and dormers on the house and garage relating to the massing and details of the front elevation while it's broken up into varied forms the elements of the front elevation appear disconnected from one another staff recommendations include changing the shed dormer into a gable dormer to balance the gable on the left with the gable on the right bringing the roof line on the left side of the house down allowing the massing of the main roof to become more united with the massing of the front gable roof staff also recommends adjusting the windows within the right gable front projections excuse me to better fill the space which may be as simple as moving the windows closer to one another which I've shown here staff recommends using brick detailing all the way down around the arched entry to emphasize that entry and using brick detailing or some type of vent detail in the front gable to break up the expansive brick this is just a very rough illustration of that on the side elevations staff has found that the massing and most details comply with the guidelines however staff recommends adjusting the side dormers to be more consistent with historic dormer detailing by eliminating the wider panels on either side of the windows and bringing the roof line down closer to the top of the windows overall details staff also recommends using 6 over 6 or 6 over 1 windows to remain consistent with nearby houses or 1 over 1 which would also be acceptable as this is new construction also staff recommends eliminating the use of rafter tails on all portions of the house there's a few details going on with the brick corbels the flared eaves it's just a little bit too much as far as detail with similar styled houses in the neighborhood and staff also recommends using a consistent eave depth for all sides of the house lastly on the garage staff recommends adjusting the detailing and proportions of the garage roof to lessen the appearance that the second floor is larger than the first and eliminating the shingle panels on either side of the dormer windows extra info has been provided by the applicant which addresses staff recommendations I've given you a copy of those this shows some of my recommendations for the garage as well and I believe the applicant addressed the fact that the roof may have been drawn a little bit taller than it's supposed to be so that might take care of that so I'm not going to re-read my recommendations because that's basically it but if you have any questions can I speak I just want to make sure if you want to absorb this additional information first since it's new before is everybody ready for the applicant I know there was a lot in this staff comments I'm ready if everyone else is okay I think we're ready and you've been sworn in yes I'm Robin Brackett I'm the architect for the project and this is the owner and he's been sworn in too we have any questions for him we are excited to be here and appreciate what you do and looking forward to I think you probably need to get a little closer to the microphone sorry that's good don't do this often anyway have been working with Rachel and appreciate all the help that she has given us I think you have in front of you some revisions that have been made to improve the house and to you know reflect some of her suggestions for making the house reflect more the character of the neighborhood we think it does that it has a lot of the design elements that exist in the neighborhood it's basically one half-story house with painted bricks flared eaves double hung windows it's similar in scale very similar in scale to the adjacent house that went through this process and is under construction right now so I just wanted to I guess give an overview and see what questions you have again thinking that what you have in front of you answers the suggestions that came from staff level I think they clarify your responses where is this house it was a picture that the client found on the internet not in the neighborhood but there are you know there are a lot of sweeping and flared eaves throughout Melrose Heights does anybody, any commissioners does anyone have a question any questions or comments for the applicant I wanted to say that this is a big improvement from what I'm looking at on the screen thank you sometimes you're meeting a deadline and trying to get something and then you know you keep working on it and working on it where I appreciate your comments I have a question for staff on the front elevation the recommendation to go through a gable that was not because shed dormers don't are inappropriate to the neighborhood it was just a compositional comment correct okay yeah I concur I think it's definitely improved I think it's a good testimony to the dialogue between the preservation staff and the architect and the architect's client I presume my question to the planning is this going to be an exhibit to this agenda the regular I mean how you treat this versus this the agenda we would just add it to the packet this would be a supplement I think the question is for instance if you were to make a motion to yeah if you wanted to approve as revised you would just make reference to this I have a similar question to Mr. Saveries with respect to the dormers in regard to the rafter tails was that specific to same kind of question my comment on the rafter tails was related to the fact that there was a lot of details going on the example that they provided to I'm not sure that those are rafter tails more decorative we thought the comment was to either use the rafter tails or not use the rafter tails again that there was a lot of mixing going on and we were even maybe now that the rafter tails have been placed you know on the whole project we were thinking that it might look better without the rafter tails and you know just to have a covered sloped eave I think too on similar houses in the neighborhood it's more consistent not to have the rafter tails so yes we're very open to that okay so it would look different from what you've submitted in other words you chose to do the rafter tails but you would go back to the corbel yes and again just it's a timing thing on our end you know now that the rafter tails have been drawn yesterday or you know we're like we might not we like it may prefer it without the rafter tails so you would go back to the corbel design the corbels the brick corbels still with a closed sloped eave right okay okay I think I would be more comfortable with that and especially if you kind of feel that way anyway thanks anyone else does anybody care to make a motion right he thought a little well actually before I do just because I guess that's the only thing on this list I'm just looking because a lot to read through with regard to the rafter tails my comment will be to go to a closed sloped eave is there anything else on here that we need to discuss I think that it doesn't I think that you probably are going to get a better motion out of this if you don't read these but you go through these as the in other words I would not say anything about that you see what I'm going to do that's I was in the same okay okay and I would refer to this I would refer to this email and refer to what it is okay does anyone have any other comments okay I'll make the motion that we approve the applicants request for certificate of design approval at 1229 Maiden Lane with the following conditions that and these are in reference to an email from Miss Robin Brackett to Miss Rachel Walling as well as in accordance with consideration to staff findings that the side dormers be revised to include a triple window unit wider side panels will be eliminated and the roof line will be lowered that the eave will become a closed sloped eave without rafter tails being exposed the roof overhang will be consistent with an eight inch minimum the front roof line on the left will remain as drawn in the applicant submittal with a natural eave height the front right gable windows will be revised to a triple unit the brick detailing at the front entry will not be painted so the opening will be emphasized the front gable will have an arched added the garage roof will be drawn as built as revised in the drawing the garage dormer will use a triple window unit which the front door design will be submitted for review of staff and the columns will be wood or fiberglass excellent is there a second second any discussion do we have a vote please Mr. Bocknight Mr. Bram Mr. Cohn Mr. Savery thank you next case please this is a request for a certificate of design approval for new construction in the four and five hundred blocks of Hayward street opposite the Grandby and Olympia mills this area of land is rather unusual in Grandby as it lacks a precedent for what should be constructed in this location as historically it was the site of small dependencies for the mills in the neighborhood it is most appropriate to replicate historic styles identically however in this case staff finds that doing so would create an ahistorical sense of development as a result the applicant has worked extensively with staff on the design that takes clues from the immediate context including the former mill office building and the mills themselves the proposed new construction mirrors the historic office building but does not replicate the historic design this identifies the project as new construction but does not create an ahistorical sense of development the primary reason that this project is on the regular agenda is that the proposed new construction is a variation from the traditional residential projects in the district staff does however find that the project meets section five of the guidelines and recommends granting a certificate of design approval with the following conditions the final door design be submitted to and approved by staff the applicant work with staff on the overall design for the roofs for the rear porches the profile of the standing seen metal be approved by staff parking areas visible from the public right of way be screened and all other details deferred to staff and the applicant is here and has brought a sample of the brick as well as the mortar that's proposed for the project thank you the applicant wish to present and you've been sworn in my name is Andrew Rogers I'm the architect for this project and I have brought samples just for review if staff or the panel is interested and I'll just echo Megan's comments that I think we work together to come up with this plan and there's no conditions I think in that summary that we're opposed to so we're open everything that any comments that you have in addition and free to answer any questions that you might have I'll say that I think it's I really like the project and I commend the simplicity and understatement I would like to see a lot more of that come to the DDRC everything doesn't have to be a bold stroke and I think it's very nice I echo the exact same sentiments any questions for the applicant this might be quick thank you anyone here to speak for or against the project you've been sworn in I'm Daniel Weeder I'm in the Grammy village also a member of the Mill District Alliance and this is the second incarnation of what they presented to the staff and we worked with the staff to try to create more of a flow from the 612 Whaley to the Mill Office Building and this is just perfect so the first thing I didn't know it was kind of squatty and they just gave it a little more height and it's really perfect so we're very happy with PMC and with Garvin and Andrew and very pleased with the outcome and we're looking forward to our beautiful brick Hayward Street corridor thank you anyone else okay um any comments? would you like to make a motion? sure I'll make the motion that we approve the applicant's request for certificate of design approval at lots 400 and 500 on the block of Hayward Street um in the Grambi architectural conservation district and finding that the applicant complies and with section 5 of the district guidelines and that we're granting it with the following conditions that the applicant work on the final door design to submit and approve by staff the applicant work with staff on the overall design for the roofs and the porches on the porches the profile for the standing seam metal be approved by staff the parking areas are visible from the public right away will be screened and any other details to be deferred to staff second second we have a vote please Mr. Bach Knight Mr. Broom Mr. Cone Mr. Moore Mr. Savery next case please this next request is for a certificate of design design approval for new construction also in the Grambi architectural conservation district in the 500 block of Whaley street the applicant is proposing to construct three new buildings to replace the Type C supervisor housing that once stood in this location similar to the Type A saltbox houses that characterize the district the Type C structures are distinguished immediately by several features including their two-story porches single door generally the plans that have been submitted by the applicant are consistent with the historic examples of the structures left however the dimensions of the proposed new construction are not consistent with these historic examples although visually similar to the saltbox houses the historic examples of the Type C houses are six feet wider on their facade and six feet shorter in length essentially resulting in dimensions that are flipped the applicant is requesting to use the dimensions of the Type A saltbox style homes rather than the dimensions of the Type C structures which will result in a facade that is larger than historic examples in a district that is characterized by its rigid consistency not only in design but also in size varying dimensions by six feet is significant and a noticeable change variations in this district where they occur come down to less than a quarter of an inch staff finds that varying the dimensions is not in keeping with the guidelines in section 5 in size and scale as the structures with dimensions that match historic examples can be accommodated on these lots the new construction that has previously been approved in this district applicants have been required to match the dimensions of historic examples exactly because varying the dimensions of new construction from historic examples creates an ahistorical variation in the streetscape that is not consistent with the guidelines staff does find that the proposal is generally in keeping with the guidelines and recommends approval with the following conditions the dimensions of the house be flipped so that the facade is 36 feet in width and side elevations are 30 feet in length without the rear lean to the tops of the windows on the first story aligned with the top of the transom above the door final window and door design be submitted to and approved by staff the structures match the setback of the adjacent type C supervisor housing wood fencing six feet in height and consistent with the guidelines be added to screen any parking that is desired between the structures and the house access easement be recorded for the shared driveway and all other details deferred to staff thank you is the applicant here and wish to speak and Ms. foreman I have been I'm Josh Harding I'm the applicant all the points I agree with the only thing that I'd really like to have have a little sort of I guess evaluation on is I think overall the style of house is more indicative of I'd say a type A house and really there's only I think there's two left in the immediate area which are heavily altered so I think what we've created is a reflection of what is left in the whole mill district and we kept consistent with the upper porch and the windows and door downs there so I think everything else is fine what is it that you would in terms of the size so right now as we have it designed it's 30 feet wide by 36 feet deep which I believe that Megan should be flipped that's really it okay any questions for the applicant understand and you'll get a chance in just a second okay so anyone here who wishes to speak for or against the project I think that's did you want to speak and have you been sworn in raise your right hand I'll tell the truth in these proceedings and if you would state your name please to the microphone Julia Clark Spone spelled C-L-A-R-K hyphen S-P-O-H-N and we live at 123 Church Street so first of all I want to say thank you for giving us this opportunity to be involved with the planning and design of the homes at the 500 block of Whaley my husband and I live with our baby our one year old son my husband's mom and two cats on the church street the lot that directly but the 508 Whaley plot so we very much appreciate the consideration that has gone into the design of the new houses however my primary concerns are of course the safety and well-being of my family and unfortunately the plans as presented this evening put my family's safety and well-being at risk specifically as both a daughter to an elderly mother-in-law and as a mother with a very curious baby I see a variety of problems with the proposed parking arrangement my husband's mother is nearing her 80th year she suffers from scoliosis and asthma in fact it's so severe that she can't walk very far without her oxygen tank and I fear that the plans that we've seen tonight would negatively impact her in two ways one by exposing her to exhaust and possibly dust from cars coming and going in such close proximity to our property and two and that would exacerbate her asthma and two by creating a dearth of safe and convenient parking on our street as the 12 new parking spots around the houses fill up there will undoubtedly be spillover onto surrounding streets the spillover will reduce the on-street parking available to residents possibly forcing us to park further away from our own home this may seem like a mere inconvenience but for our mom it is extremely taxing physically and from my perspective as a mother I find the prospect of parking further from our home frightening since I'm essentially forced to walk in the road with my baby given that there are no sidewalks in our neighborhood to return to the problem the parking itself for the new building in addition to the issues I raise regarding my mother-in-law the configuration as it stands poses a major safety threat to my child again due to its close proximity to our property the thought of my little boy playing in a yard that is mere feet away from cars that are being driven by people who may not know that there's a small child in the vicinity terrifies me if there were ever an accident involving my baby we would be devastated I would like to propose that the developer are building a fence to serve as a buffer between their property and ours I think this would solve many of the problems I've outlined I'd like to add a slight aside I know this isn't... you guys don't control this but the volume and the speed of traffic on Church Street has increased exponentially in the past 10 years our little street is never intended to accommodate the number and tremendous size of the vehicles that we see today we've asked the city multiple times to explore ways to slow traffic down whether it be through speed humps or other proven methods of traffic calming with the traffic that will be generated by this new construction we implore you but the council and PMC management to also urge the city to make our streets safer for current and future residents finally I ask that you keep my loved ones whose cares in my hands in mind as you proceed with construction in our neighborhood unfortunately most of that's outside of our purview we're just looking at the design we're not city council but I appreciate your comments have you been sworn in? if you could get to the microphone and state your name please my name is Kevin Byrd one of the things I see when your design parameters is I see the easement they have put in over here and that easement actually encroaches that is an X city property used to be a service driveway for the coal trucks they used to service the houses the city has abandoned this alleyway as it were they don't maintain it there's no upkeep at all and so that has been a de facto driveway I guess and what the easement that they are proposing here is actually encroaches over to the property line actually only gives us about 11 feet between our house and the property line actually we could still park there except the problem is once you park your car there you can no longer get around your car on our property line in case a fence or something had to be installed or something like that and so that's my main thing about the design really I think the design steps at the house I can live with that I think the parking in the back is not very aesthetically pleasing at all but I understand your parameters you know what the parking in the back as opposed to the facade of the houses and also the limitations of the road they can't really pull into the houses off of Whaley Street I'm just not sure if we need one thing I see is it 12 cars there one thing to consider is those 12 cars also have 12 friends that also show up that's 24 more cars on a one lane street as a one lane street the fire trucks can't even get down the road there's more apartments at Hayward Street would those be even more parking that will be actually taken away and it seems like there's no infrastructure thoughts going on about how all the vehicles and stuff are going in and then these houses are going to exacerbate that that's my main concern thank you just as a point of clarity for the commission this proposal does not incorporate the existing alleyway that's behind these lots you can see on the aerial image here it is still there it will be maintained the applicant is not proposing to touch that alleyway in any shape or form okay so I have a question the driveway that we're seeing behind them three homes or buildings that's on their property next to this alleyway yes that's correct it is on the applicant's property and not in that alleyway okay thank you does the applicant wish to respond to anything that's been said that as well obviously with Megan's approval okay certainly that's I'm a dad too so I get it let me ask a question about the because I was under the impression somehow when I read through the material that you were open to flipping that's correct you are open to that well it's designed right now I guess opposite of what a type C house was the argument that I would make is that there really isn't a true type C house that's left and the majority of houses that are in this neighborhood now are type A which is as we have decided with the exception of the one door downstairs and the upstairs porch which is what a type C house is is the A was reflected on the site layout in A or C that's in A with the upper porch and the exterior facade of a type C so the only thing that's really adjusted is is the size okay so I guess I need to understand so my first question is you have the ability on the site to flip the dimensions it would be tighter it would work it would work and I guess the question is to staff I need a little bit more explanation about type A versus type C why it follows it appears that it should follow one and not the other one I know you wrote it but I'm a little confused so the type A style house is probably what's more familiar in this district single story porch, two doors on the facade but the dimensions of the type A houses are slightly different the facade is six feet narrower and they're slightly deeper than the type C houses the type C houses feature a wider facade in shorter depth but they're essentially the same dimensions is just that the dimensions across the facade are wider than the type A and the design of this is emulating the type A therefore the narrower facade would be preferable is that the wider facade is what would be preferable this is reflecting the type C design with a single door on the first story, single door on the second story, two story porch those are features that are more consistent with the type C and they're historic right okay is everybody clean on that sure top view picture again please one other concern there are four substantial trees upon that properly line and I think they add value to the historic quality there's a few of those trees I'm in the tree business my guess is they've been around as long as that neighborhood is and it would be a shame also where their driveway is going to cut across the drip line of those trees that will cause their decline they will die and that would be another concern about the parking ingress of where they have them mapped out so that was just another concern of mine thanks I'm Bob Gild with the Granby Neighborhood Association and we're supportive of the staff's comments the flipping of the footprint of the design as an effort at trying to replicate the type C houses that are lost on those lots before the design guidelines became effective one of the major setbacks probably the most significant setback that had occurred in the over a hundred year history of the mill neighborhood was the loss of these three supervisor houses and they were lost to demolition the city required them to be demolished because the owner had left them in a half completed condition so it was a major setback for us in the fabric of the community I want to commend the staff and also PMC and Josh Harding his colleagues for working with the neighborhood and the staff at trying to fill these missing teeth in the neighborhood and we do think that they ought to honestly replicate the type C and that's a minor change that staff has proposed so with that condition we are very supportive it's part of the larger effort by PMC to be good neighbors and to fill in the missing pieces in the neighborhood with the project that you just approved on Whaley street and so we commend them and the staff and ask you to support this project with the conditions staff proposes anyone else who wishes to speak any questions or comments from commissioners would anyone care to make a motion you're limber all right I'll make the motion that we approve the applicant's request for a certificate of design approval on the vacant lots of the 500 block of Whaley street and generally keeping with section five of the grand B architectural conservation district guidelines with the following conditions that the dimensions of the house be flipped so that the facade is 36 feet in width and the side elevations are 30 feet in length the rear lean twos the tops of the windows on the first story align with the top of the transom above the door final window and door designs will be submitted to and approved by staff the structures match the setback of the adjacent type C supervisor housing wood fencing six feet in height and consistent with the guidelines to be added to screen any parking that is desired between structures across access easement will be recorded for the shared driveway and with the dimension changes if any accommodations can be made to preserve any grand trees those be tried and then accounted for and any other details defer to staff there a second second I have one point of discussion if we could add to that motion that the applicant work as he's indicated he's willing to work with the neighbor to discuss any additional fencing that might address their concerns is that acceptable I'll second that okay I guess then we just need to have a vote then I think he's seconded that I'll take a second again okay vote please yes yes yes yes thank you I think that's the end of our cases before I ask for a motion to go into executive session is there any other business then in that case could I have a motion to go into executive session I move that we go into executive session I'll second all those in favor can I have a motion to come out of executive session please second all in favor aye and let the record state that no action was taken in executive session with that could I have a motion to adjourn I move we adjourn is there a second all those in favor aye I I I I I I I I I I I I I I