 Hello everyone, this is Steve Brouillet with Studio Brouillet, and we're here for another episode of Livestream with Janice Fiammengel. Just to make sure we got everything in order, I do have my patriarchal cigar in case we need to explode some feminist heads. I have my patriarchal scotch and of course the all-important patriarchal hat. And we have a special guest with us today. It's time we're interviewing somebody on the Livestreams and it's Anthony Dream Johnson who is the organizer of a controversial conference going down in Florida later this year called Make Women Great Again. With the outfurther ado, I'm going to bring them all in. Hello everyone. Hey. Howdy, howdy. Hey there. Hey Anthony. Hey. And just to kick things off here, I do have a graphic showing your... I do hear somebody there here, your convention. So let me see if I can pop that up on the screen. Is this the right convention? That is the correct one, the 22 convention, first one ever. Cool. So to start things off, Anthony, why don't you give us a quick thumbnail of why, how, what inspired you to go down to create this conference and get it going? Yeah, so we've been doing conferences for men since 2006, 2007. The first one was held in 2007 and that was actually the under 21 convention for young men in Orlando, Florida where I'm now actually. I was in college at the time and I was, you know, 17. I just found the Pickup Artist community a few months before, about almost a year before at that point. And I grew up and I was not good with women and I didn't like that. In high school, middle school, things like that. And the Pickup Artist community, I saw as a method to change that. I could, you know, find these ideas, I could apply them to my life and if they were true, if they held, you know, real weight to reality, they would make my life a little better. It'd make my interactions with women better. And then at 17 years old, I had the idea, I was like, well, this is a kind of a slow progress for me. What if I got together with other young men who are better than me, who are further ahead in life than me in this part of life and learn from them, and be able to learn from each other? So my first idea for a conference actually wasn't really so much a conference as it was a meetup group. Very much what you'd see with meetup.com today. Anyway, flash forward, you know, 13 years now, or fast forward. And I've been doing that conference the entire time. We've held 18, 21 conventions at this point. And a couple of years in, I turned 21 years old. So I had to stop calling it the under 21 convention at that point. And that's when it became for all men, rather than just young men. And we also do a fatherhood event. We started last year in 2019 called the 21 convention patriarch edition. It sounds like you're a big fan of patriarchy, given your patriarchal cigar and scotch. But the 22 convention has actually been about the domain. I had the idea back in 2015. So, you know, five, almost five years ago at this point. And basically women had asked rarely, but they would ask, like, why don't you do a conference for women? Are you going to do a conference for women? And at that point, I didn't have too much interest in that other than occasionally come up as an issue. And I was like, yeah, of course, maybe someday we'll do one. I don't know when, probably not next year, even the year after that. Maybe in the 2020s, like we are now. So, for me, the evolution of the brand wouldn't be using 21 convention, which is so heavily associated with men. It would be trying to spin that off into something similar, which would be 22 convention in this case. I also like how it matches up with XXXY, obviously, chromosomes. So, OK, yeah, yeah, I have something, idea, yeah. My philosophic issue, though, back even in 2015 and 2016 and stuff is that I was not a woman. So then and now, I have no idea what it's like to be a woman firsthand. I have observations. I have observations from other men and women in terms of communicating with me, what I could read in books and stuff like that. But the 21 convention, fundamentally, is for men and by men. So we're not ever able to do that for women from the perspective of being female. And philosophically, it's kind of a big issue for me and a big gap, like, how do we bridge that gap? Like, Janice talks about the empathy gap. This, to me, would be almost like that, too. It's like, how do I do that? How can we teach women to be better women if we're not women? So at the end of the day, Make Woman Great Again was the philosophic root that I was missing at that time. It was that thing, like, in the back of my head, I was like, I want to do this someday. People keep asking me for it every few years. All going to that question, the second year. But anyway, the philosophic thrust I was missing was Make Woman Great Again, which I saw on a hat as like a joke hat on Facebook a couple of years ago, back in, let's see, late 2018. And I fell in love with it right away. I was so excited. I was up all night bitching and complaining, so to speak, to my employees and stuff. I was obsessed with this hat and the idea out. It wasn't just the hat, it was the idea. Because I'd never seen it before. I found out later it's to find Molly who had done a video with that title. But it wasn't quite the same philosophic thrust. It was more like politics-based and voting and things like that. It wasn't kind of the grand vision of, like, actually taking it seriously and literally at face value and Make Woman Great Again. Not a pun, not a joke. Like, it's actually a real thing. As outrageous as it might seem to people who don't agree with it. So 22 Convention is a conference for women based on self-improvement. And Make Woman Great Again is the gap that we're using for men to speak to women about how to be better women. From our perspective as men, what we can share, what we can observe and criticize with feminism, things like that. Yeah. Just before we get into that, Anthony, I'm embarrassed to say that I didn't know about any of your 21 conventions, but that's no slur on you that I'm, you know, I'm out of it generally. I just barely keep up with my sort of very narrow domain of interests. But could you tell us a little bit about what sort of speakers, what sort of topics, what would be some of the titles of the talks, what were the, you know, central themes? I'm really interested. I am. Yeah, I heard you earlier on this show with Steve and I think Paul, you mentioned that at an early glance you thought our convention was about entrepreneurship and that's, like, mildly true. That's, like, one topic that we focused on, but it's not, by any means, the actual extent of what we do. The topics in the speakers are extremely diverse and not in a woke, leftist, feminist sense, like diversity, legitimately, genuinely diverse in a, I actually called the event, the 21 convention, as you might see in the banner in the back, you can read it. It's a panorama event for life and earth as a man. And I actually took that from the back cover about the shrug, which had a very similar idea for effectivism as a philosophy for life and earth as a man. And I saw the convention itself, 21 convention, as a very panoramic, wide-angle view of life as a man. All the issues that will face men and even fathers now throughout their life. So that can just be something simple like self-confidence or it can be something more specific like fatherhood where it could be marriage and relationships and dating or health and fitness or entrepreneurship, even self-defense. So we've had clinical psychologist speak at the convention and we've had over half a dozen PhDs including an astrophysicist who taught at Harvard before Harvard went all woke, you know, crazy. FBI agents like Joan of Aro, Ex-Navy Seals, professional architects, civil architects, marriage and family therapist, as well as a litany of expert pickup artists and dating coaches and all kinds of things. And so the actual diversity of the speakers is really, really impressive to the point that it's shocking to people. Like when I invited Paul Ian to speak back in 2013 that he mentioned, I think he was very put off by the pickup artists and he was confused as to why I would even invite him at the conference. For me, he was just a speaker on men's rights and men's issues. And fundamentally to me that wasn't too much different from pickup artists teaching young men how to improve social skills and confidence with meeting women and approaching women. He might not have, obviously, he might have some criticism of that Paul, which I didn't care though. I wasn't inviting him to criticize the pickup artists or fight with them or debate. I care about men's issues fundamentally, whether it's, you know, you're super socially awkward and you can't talk to the opposite sex or you've got a series of failed relationships or toxic relationships with women with personality disorders or men's rights and fathers' rights which were under attack too. And actually part of the community is what led me to the men's rights community back in like 2011 through the spearhead. I was interviewed by the founder, I think Bill Price was his name. And that was my first real engagement with the men's rights community back then. But fundamentally the convention has always been for men and eventually not fathers too and young men. And I see all the issues for men are relevant to me. They're all important. It doesn't mean they're all equally important, you know, every given and every given context or argument. But fundamentally men are important to me and masculinity and these things and the convention and all that. There is some limits like we don't, I mean, not, you know, the convention mostly focuses around like dating relationships, health and fitness and then things like self-defense, entrepreneurship and now, you know, feminism, things like that. That's not just like we're not doing like workshops and like how to use a hammer and like nails at your house and like, this isn't like a TV show like Tim Allen thing or something like that. Right, yeah. So Anthony, the title, Make Women Great Again. Okay, obviously we know where that's inspired from. How are women not great now? Oh boy. Well, first of all, some women already are, of course. Janice, for example, is a very wonderful example of a woman. She's dead serious. She's extremely intelligent and smart and has completely retained her femininity in a way that most women today in America and the West have not and that is very sad to me and very unfortunate. At the same time, I look at, I figured Piers Morgan interview would ask me like, are any women great? And he didn't, but I thought he might. I kind of anticipated that. And I was ready to say that in Poland, I think women are very great at a cultural social scale that is not seen in America right now. At least I was in my experience spending a month there last year in the capital of Warsaw, Poland and Krakow, Poland. So it's not like. I'm sorry, Poland is a traditional conservative kind of culture even today, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's a product too. Right, right. So is your movement, your ideas, your convention, is it's a, would you say this is a traditional conservative sort of movement or convention? Excellent question and the answer is no. But I'm not opposed to that and I find a lot of merit in traditional gender roles and things that came before my time, before my generation. So to put this into context, make women great again is not the same thing as make women traditional again. And there are now some like tradwife movements and stuff like that. I think that's why actually Piers Morgan and the UK, they're interested in make women great again. Cause like there's this tradwife thing that's this whole meme in the UK right now going on. But they were really antagonistic to you. Oh, totally. Yeah, they don't like it, but it's going on and they're curious about it but clickbait reasons and ad revenue and stuff like that. It's controversy. And they knew that bringing us on the show it would fit into that narrative for them. Right. Yeah, the tradwife thing, there was just recently an article in the British Daily Mirror, I think, which I had to join, I had to subscribe in order to be able to read the article and I never did get to read the article. So I've only read the first paragraph, but it basically compares the tradwife movement to Isis Brides. Wow. Yeah, they're pretty opposed, I'd say, the mainstream. Yeah, so how would you distinguish then a kind of the traditionalist thrust of some contemporary discourse and movements and your convention? Yeah. So like I was saying, make women great again is not literally the same thing just in writing in words as make women great again to make women traditional again. So what I mean by that is that I think if we want clocks back 50 years, to the 1950s or 60s or whatever, I don't see how we wouldn't end up in the exact same place we are now with this unraveling shit show of the culture with feminism and wokeness and PC and all this Orwellian stuff we have. So as I see it, there's a lot of merit to the way things were and gender roles and gender relations, but they weren't perfect to the point that they were able to be infiltrated and they had weak points that ultimately led them to falling apart. I think it's not a controversial idea to say right now that family values and traditional values are falling apart at the seams today in the West. So I don't see them as perfect. And I think the future, let me say this, the future is built on a backbone of traditional values, but that's not the entirety of it. I think we have to make something more positive and better. And I think that's also why traditional conservatives fail in politics. They're always trying to conserve something rather than build something better for the future. So make women great again, for example, is not, like I said, whining in the clocks back 50 years, it's this positive new movement that I want to use to replace feminism completely. I want to abolish feminism like Piers Morgan said about us as an abolitionist and replace it with something better and more positive. And that is more, in addition to that, more secular too. So I think a lot of, for example, traditional gender roles are based strictly or very hardcore on religions and faiths. And to me, that means that in a secular context and a wider conversation in public, you lose a lot of that argument the minute someone doesn't agree with you in your religion. If your argument for traditional gender roles traces back to your God or your faith, at the end of the day, if they don't agree with you on major philosophical issues like that, then your argument's not gonna win. They're just gonna, they'll find a way to dismiss it because you're asking them for too much. You're asking them to embrace your epistemology, your faith and their God, their metaphysics. So there's a lot of major philosophical components that traditional gender roles I think were built on. And in a wider competing culture of competing ideas and philosophies, it's not gonna work. Like I wanna promote, I wanna use make women great again to promote an American femininity and an American masculinity, like we're doing with the 21 convention, which is not a religious movement. Well, what does that look like? It's not, you're saying it's not winding the clock back to the 1950s and you want to abolish feminism, which by the way is probably the most powerful influential movement in the West around the world possibly of the single movement. But what does the future woman look like? How is it distinguished from the traditional and from the feministic? Yeah. So I think women need to embrace being a feminine, first of all, and they need to choose to do so on their own. They don't need to be yelled at or derided to do it or anything like that. They need to choose that for, and so the other part of it was, what was the other part of your question? And just how that is distinguished from the traditional, like the femininity was a traditional value in the 50s that beauty and sensitivity, compassion, family, all those things. What, and obviously feminism has declared itself to be anti-family. So you're going to get rid of feminism and you don't want to go back to traditional cons. So what, how does your view of the future of feminine nature, female nature, how does that, what does that look like? Well, we have a specific example that I talked about in an interview with Piers Morgan about motherhood first. So I think for example, women should pursue career opportunities and education and things like that, but they should do so much later in life for most women, not all, but most of them. So for example, I think with women peaking in the fertility at like 21, 22 years old, that means that most of them should prioritize and they should be encouraged to prioritize motherhood first and family formation. And then later in the 30s and 40s, they should go ahead and pursue if they want. And I think a lot of them will. You know, advanced education, whatever they want to do, build a business, you know, pursue a life like that, pursue a career, but they're not told to do that now. They have this kind of mix, you know, mixed and matched mismatch of stuff that they do where they pursue higher education immediately out of high school, they leave the home, they get banged out on Tinder, they go to college again into all this student loan debt that they can't get rid of pursuing often very worthless degrees, only to then maybe do something productive with it and then flip it all on its head and cancel it at 30 when they hit the wall and they're freaking out. And now they all of a sudden want to get married, you know, locked down, get a husband, build a family. And then they're supposed to return to that, either do that at the same time and then return to that in their 40s. And I think this is ridiculous. So that's just one example I think and I don't think women were encouraged too much. I think the feminist narrative that they were forbidden to do this is kind of rewriting history, but I do think that women should be able to pursue these things and they probably should just not in the order they're told to now. They're just needing to flip it on its head. Motherhood and family and marriage need to come first and then higher education and career needs to come much later in life, particularly with relevance to the window of fertility that they have to pursue. A lot of women have regretfully regretted putting off motherhood until it was too late. So in that sense, you're really raising a red flag for women rather than telling them what to do. You just want to point out that you could regret that decision. Yeah, and they probably, not only could they, but they probably will. And I think it's hard for young women to understand that there are permanent consequences to delaying motherhood and family formation. Stifan Malini is notorious for talking about the eggs dying off, 90% of them are dead by 30. And, but there's more to it than it's not just eggs dying off, it's at the chance of the problem of pregnancy, a problem in childbirth, birth defects, the rate of that goes up, officially still in medicine. They don't like calling it that now, but you have it past 35, any pregnancy you have is geriatric. It's advanced maternity age. And the rate of birth defects and downturns and all these things, they tend to go way, way up at that age. And a lot of women too, like I even, this one is not quite as hard science on it, but a lot of older women that hear about these women having children they're late 30s and 40s, older women in their 60s and 70s are kind of appalled by that, just by the fact that having a young child in your 40s, like say you have a three year old, 41 years old, not just time intensive, but it's exhausting. It's a lot easier to chase a two year old around your house when you're 22 rather than 42. I was 41 with a three year old. Yeah, I was. And that's an issue for men too, no doubt. The issue for you though, is that you have a much wider fertility window and window reproduction that is not anywhere near, one of my good friends, one of our speakers and architect, he had his first child at 48 years old, which is really late. But he was able to do that and a child's healthy and everything's fine. A woman having a child at that age is almost impossible. And if you were to do it, the chance of a birth defect is very, very high. So that comes back to men and women are, in the monastery we say men and women are different, and I believe that totally, that we are fundamentally vastly different, even with consideration to ways that were similar that obviously are both human. So feminism I think has been trying to erase that, and that's part of the future too, is that that gets back to being culturally normal, that it's okay for men and women to be different. It's okay for those differences to be celebrated, not ignored or neutralized or stigmatized and stuff like that. Men and women are different and that's fun. So far you're sounding like a fairly conventional anti-feminist, counteracting the feminist claims that you can do things like put off your child bearing years forever, there's no consequences, feminist claims that men and women are basically the same. Things like this. Janice, do you have any question along those lines? Well, I wanted to ask also, if you could maybe describe the ideal person who might be interested in your conference, and maybe even you could tell us a little bit about the women that you're in touch with who are planning to attend or who have expressed interest, what tends to be the age, background, interest, what kind of things do they say about what they're hoping to get out of the conference, that kind of thing, anything you can tell us would be interesting. Yeah, so you're focused mostly on the 22 convention there, right? Yeah, the 22 convention, yeah, yeah. So most of the women I've talked to, I haven't talked to all the attendees yet, but they seem to be in the 30s, which is kind of what I figure, 30s and 40s, some of them are wives of the men attending the 21 convention at the same time. Some of them are not. They're just single women in the 30s that have an interest in going to the conference and have the financial means to do so. I kind of figured that we wouldn't have a lot of 20-somethings and I continued to hold that opinion that we're not gonna have many 20-somethings to attend the conference, if any. Why would you say that? Why do you think? Well, even the best price for a night to get on the conference, if you bring a friend, it's $500, but on top of that, you have to buy, they're probably not gonna live in Florida, so you have to buy a flight, hotel, take time off work in school, or whatever they're doing, and then on top of that, still pay for the ticket, which if they really finagled it right, it's 500 bucks. So that's just a financial roadblock that a lot of young women are just not gonna spend. They will spend plenty of money doing things, unfortunately, today, they'll buy a Louis Vuitton handbag, so God knows what. But investing that much in a conference is just, it's unusual for them. There are some conferences out there for women, like one of our speakers back in the day, Matthew Hussie. He's a big speaker to women. He does some improvement for women, different from how we're doing it, obviously. But he has millions of followers on YouTube, for example. His conferences and his business model, those are a lot different than ours. So they host conferences for women, and they're like one day, and they're like really inexpensive, like $30, $40 or something like that. The issue is on the back end, this is very common for conferences, is that they upsell to this huge retreat or workshop. So he has his conference for women, they pay 40 bucks to attend, 500 of them show up, and then they offer a retreat in Florida, nearby, actually, in Kissimmee, Florida, about 40 minutes from me. And that's like $10,000 for some weekend retreat. Kind of like a semi-robbin cell phone. If we don't do, conference is very intellectual, and it's very like action-based, action-based. Like the reason, one of the reasons the ticket's costly to do is because we do- We're losing your audio, I think, somehow. Are you hearing him okay, Janice? No, no, it just started to dim. Test, test. Okay, here we go, here we go. That's better, yeah. Okay. Anyway, so one of the reasons the tickets to our conference is costly to do is because we spend a lot of money on filming. I hire professional video and photography teams because I care a lot about that for many reasons. One of which is that years down the road, no one's even gonna remember who attended the conference and what it was like very much, unless you record it. Recording it is where I think the, not just the positivity, but the positive impact is at. Because you can watch these videos for years and years and years. We have conferences, for example, from 2011 and 2012 and stuff like that, that are viewed thousands of times a day on YouTube and things like that. So we spend a lot of money on that and a lot of people don't. They'll host a conference and they won't film it or they'll use very cheap filming, they'll film it on phones and stuff like that, or very inexpensive equipment. We use professional teams, the professional gear, TV studio stuff. And then we put that out free to the world to make an impact and actually make change. Last year alone, we reached about 10 million members of our videos. And this year we hope to reach even more than that. And now women too. A lot of that will be through outrage and a lot of anger and stuff like that off the bat. But I don't care. As long as they watch it and they get and they're curious about it, that's what matters to me. Long term, I think that we'll just overwhelm them with so much media that we'll eventually kind of break through just by repetition alone. Does that get at your question, Janice? Do you want to follow up to that? Well, tell us some of the topics that will be presented at the 22 convention. Yeah, so one of them is by Noah Ravoy. He's been huge on this. He talks a lot about female agency or agency in general for men and women. So taking responsibility and I mean, his old talks gonna be literally, I think on taking female agency for women. What was his name again? Noah Ravoy. Yeah. I'm just gonna write that in the comments here. Noah, how do you spell his last name? R-E-V-O-Y. He spoke for us last year in Poland for the first time in our Polish convention. Other topics will be, my topic's gonna be motherhood first and I'm gonna do an entire presentation on that it elaborates on what I was talking about earlier in the show here. That women, like America first, as a political saying, so it's building off that it's a playoff that, right? Like a meme. But I really believe in motherhood first for most women. That's to me what makes sense. Like if I was a young woman, that's what I would want to do. Knowing what I'd do as a young man today. That makes common sense and it makes biological sense unless you're going to take the high risk route of that's what that is. It's like when women delay these things by 10, 15 years. You know, there's all kinds of problems from them at the end of the day. Like we talked about with biology and eggs and birth defects and things like that. So, and they're lied to you about this. They're told to just kind of put that off, ignore it, it's not a big deal. You know, you can have it all, be whatever you want. You go girl, girl power all the crap. I'm gonna kind of collect all the lies and the means that women are told and then illustrate this out in a PowerPoint and presentation and advocate for motherhood first. And then most women are gonna be a lot happier and it's a more rational decision in my view of it. Unless you have the ability to be a genocide mango or an island and you want to live that life. There's a, your audio is going all weird again. I don't know what's up with that. It just kind of goes all like really a muffledy. But I'm gonna say just while you look at that there's, I have three good friends from university. All three of them put off motherhood and all three of them were unable to, well, one particular tried to even do vitro fertilization and that failed in two occasions. Two of them adopted from outside of the country and the other never did have children. But there was a, I have to concur that in my experience, the three close friends, female friends I had from university who did put off motherhood, all three of them, it was very distressed for them. How's my audio now, any different? It's worse now. The volume's gone way down. The volume's way down. How about now? Yeah, that's good. Yeah. What about now? That's good. That's good. Sounds better. Yeah. Give me posted. Sorry about that. There's one thing you might check if you get it, if we have this problem again, is that there's a setting to turn off the automatic audio processing in StreamYard. Oh yeah. If you go into the audio settings and click it off, it might be StreamYard that's kind of, you know, mucking up your audio. Yeah. I just turned it off, so we'll see what that is. Okay. And now turn it up a bit. Turn the volume up a bit on your input device there. That's about all I can get. That's good. That's good. Yeah, that's pretty good. I think if you stay close to the mic, you'll be fine. Okay. Yeah. Other topics at the conference will be, some of them will just be helping fitness-based. You know, for young women, I believe firmly in a paleo diet or a paleo-ish diet. So looking at our evolutionary history as men and women as a species and doing your best to respect that and to align yourself with that. I've had a lot of success with that throughout my life and so has my sister. One of my sisters anyway, my older one, was very, for years, she would watch me eat this diet and she was as baffled that I would eat this way. And finally, when I moved back to Orlando four years ago, she decided to listen to me and just take my advice with it and just kind of roll with it. And she immediately lost 40 pounds in three months. Her friends were shocked. They thought she was lying about how she was doing it. She didn't work out a single time, which I did not tell her to do. She just didn't do it. So her fur to lose all this weight and now keep it off for years and years and years has been really, really amazing for her. It also helped her cure, like permanently cure now, it seems. I think it's called peace socks, polyvistics or something like that. No, it's a pretty serious condition. It's a pretty serious condition. It's like PCOS. And it's a pretty serious condition for women that can affect their fertility and very negatively and other kind of cancer issues and things like that. So that'll be just part of it, just health and fitness and women being lean and healthy. Like when I was in Poland, men and women both, but particularly with women, you didn't see overweight women like anywhere. I saw, I think one, the entire time I was in Poland and I'm pretty sure she was a tourist in Krakow. And I think it's good for men and women to be healthy and to pursue health. And today that's for women that's being negated with body positivity and all the stuff, whether it's a very negative development for health and for beauty. Being sick and obese is not beautiful. It's not attractive. It's not empowering. It's not empowering. Now some guys might, I mean, look, some people like things, like some guys like fat women and stuff and that's fine. But I think they're not healthy. It's just not healthy. Whether you like it beautifully as an aesthetic or not doesn't change the fact that it's physically quite unhealthy. Exactly. And it's bad, I mean, it's bad for your life. It's bad for you. It's bad for your children. It's not good for anyone. So your conference has nothing out of bounds, basically. It's focused on doing, counteracting some of the negative cultural narratives that are coming from feminism, but also including anything else that you think of that could be related to improving a woman's life. Yeah, we'll get marriage and dating advice and things like that too, relationship advice, very much like the men do. I want to make just a quick shout out to the viewers here that I am going to post a few comments fairly shortly. We're in 30 minutes here already and Janice, how is your time looking? Oh, yeah, fine, yeah. Fine, yeah. Let's keep going, yeah. So I'm gonna keep an eye on shortly. Let's have a couple of, what I'd like to do if you're okay with this is I'd like to give Anthony a chance to comment on some of his more outrageous tweets that I've come across, some that probably drew fire and criticism for you personally and your movement. So if I can flash a few of those up here in a second. And then after that, I'll try to get to some of the questions in the chat here. Yeah, so I'm happy to do this. Yeah, I've got a few put to the side here. So folks, give us about 10 minutes before we start to look at your questions and start to think about your questions as we just get through this next section. Janice, I'm gonna look for some of his tweets. If you wanna ask Anthony a question while I find an appropriate tweet. I did want, I'm really curious, Anthony, as I think I mentioned to you just earlier today, I wonder if you could say a few things about your experience as a boy and a young man. You did already mention that you were uncomfortable interacting with women. So that was one of the things you wanted to talk with guys about techniques for being with women. But what was your experience more generally as a young man growing up in a post-feminist or feminist culture? Because you're quite a bit younger than Steve and I are. We're the generation that kind of came of age in the early 1970s. Feminism did exist then, but it wasn't the dominant ideology of the culture. You came of age much later than that when feminism was the dominant ideology. Could you talk about that a little bit? What that was like for you? And obviously you're not a feminist man. So at a pretty young age, you decided I'm not going to toe this line. This doesn't work for me. Could you say a bit about that? Yeah. Yeah, so I don't know too much about childhood. I haven't thought too much about that. I mean, I grew up a lot in the 90s. I was born in 1988. So in the 90s, I feel like feminism wasn't quite, had not quite infiltrated the school system to the extent it does today. Like I'm wondering here today about children in schools really horrifies me. There was some of it looking back on it, but it wasn't the ridiculously, outraged stuff we see today. I didn't have any drag queen story time, for example. I've grown up. I felt I was treated pretty fairly as a young boy, first grade, fifth grade, stuff like that. But today I hear stories and I see things in the news that are not like that. And none of my classmates are conditioning two girls. Their mothers were not taking them to the doctor to get hormone blockers and all kinds of weird stuff. So I grew up in a little bit, even without the internet when I was young. We didn't get our first computer until 1998. So as young as I am, I'm not that young. But more of my experience I can speak to was going out to bars and clubs and learning how to communicate with women, interact. Having grown up, you know, in a, I did grow up in like a, I don't recall, like a blue pill kind of Disney childhood. So I believed a lot of stuff about how to interact with women that I was taught on TV and things like that. And it's not healthy. A lot of it teaches men to be young boys, to be not masculine, to reject their masculinity and to not embrace it. And that wasn't good. And that I think is central to why it was hard for me to interact with women that I liked. You know, young, feminine women like young masculine men. And feminism I think is the opposite of that. Like we're seeing today more explicitly with toxic masculinity. This is kind of like proto-toxic masculinity being taught not to embrace it, being taught to be excessively vulnerable and excessively emotional and in touch with your emotions and all this stuff. So do you remember kind of getting those messages that you needed to be able to open up? You needed to be able to talk about your feelings, you know, you needed to be empathic in that way. And do you explicitly remember that that didn't work, you know, that young women didn't find that attractive? Yeah. And it was confusing. Like I could see even before I found the manosphere and the Pickup Artist Community and stuff, I would see guys that would act in way, including some of my friends, that would act in ways that would fly in the face of this stuff. They were a lot more cocky, they were self-assured, they were more dismissive of women who didn't, who weren't telling what they wanted to do. So they were more the kind of Chad types. So I would see that and it was very confusing because that was not what I was taught that would be attractive to women being excessively nice and things like this. And so I was curious, but I didn't have enough knowledge or I couldn't read the situation enough to do anything about it. I would just see it and I would kind of take a note of it. And it wasn't until I found the Pickup Artist Community and things like that that I started being able to unravel a little bit of this. I will say though that in my late teens and 20s and stuff like that, going out to bars and nightclubs and things like that, that was pretty eye-opening. That was the, that was hookup culture and that eventually led to things like Tinder and stuff. So just seeing a lot of toxic relationships and just shenanigans out at bars and clubs. It's really getting nuts out there. Like at this point, it's just nuts. Like it's way different from a place like Poland. When I went to a place like, when I went to Poland and met women there, there was a lot more benevolence between men and women. There was a lot more clear expectations of how to be a man and what that meant. Women acted like women. They were curious about my hat that would wear, but they weren't combative about it. They were just wanting to ask questions about it, things like that. So speaking of that. This might be a good time to jump in on this particular tweet you made here. Okay. Let's just have at it. Everything is black and white 100% of the time. Yeah. Do you believe that? Absolutely. So there's no gray areas in anything ever. Never, never, ever, ever. No, I guess I would have to really disagree with that. But why would you say there's no black and white? Everything, everything is a lot, okay? Everything is everything in the universe. Nothing, it's always black and white. And it's never anything but black and white. Okay, do elaborate, please. So that's actually a point from Objectivism. It's also a point that Anne Renn was very consistent on throughout her whole life. And I believe it, I agree with her on that. And so I get your skepticism and your criticism of it with there's no gray areas, there's no nothing like that. So one of the ways this was put by Dr. Nathaniel Brandon, also a major figure in Objectivism for a long time, someone I got to meet when I was younger, is that even things that exist on in a continuum in a spectrum or like in a gray area, when you say that you're saying they don't exist as a binary, it's a simple yes and no. So that in itself is a black and white issue you've made it. It is this thing. It is a gray area. It is not black and white, which is in itself, I think philosophically still black and white. And I think if no matter how far down this rabbit hole you go, there's always a way to eventually divide it into black and white thinking like that. So it doesn't mean that though everything in the world is a binary. Things do exist on spectrums and continuums and you know, in degrees and stuff like that. And that's fine. I just don't find a philosophic opposition to the idea that things are still black and white when people say that. And I think this is actually like a major way philosophically that people are able to sneak, you know, I ran an objectivism called a package of dealing. They would package, this is what feminism does a lot of. They package up these nice things like equality. They had this, you know, this package of equality and they pack all this really toxic crap into it. They sneak it into culture, into cultural memes and hashtags and all that stuff. And then young women buy this stuff wholesale. They don't just pick a little bit of it. They buy the whole thing, the whole package. So that's how things get snuck in like that. But yeah, if things exist on a continuum, on a spectrum or in a gray area and not something else like a simple binary that's still a black and white issue, you've just expanded it to be a little more complex. Well, I do have something to say about that later, but I'm going to give Janice a chance to chime in here. Oh, geez, I don't want to get into a big philosophical discussion about black and white. Okay, well. You can start with I agree or disagree. I don't want to talk about that. I want to talk about something else. And that is that I would assume that the biggest response you're getting in terms of negative, you know, outcry is that somehow, no matter what you say about what you're trying to do at the 22 convention, this is really about misogyny. This is about men wanting to control women. This is about men telling women how dare you, what women should be. This is about men telling women that they have to exist primarily for men rather than for themselves. And that, you know, there's nothing else to this, but a kind of denigration of women. How, I mean, I don't think that's true, but how do you respond to that kind of criticism? Yeah, yeah, that is like one of the main things we've gotten obviously. Yeah, first of all for me, it's just a bunch of nonsense. Like when I look at the page and this, if you look at the criticism usually when they say this, they're not usually not citing anything specific. This is kind of vague generalized knee jerk response to it. And to me, that means a lot of it's very mindless. It's not very thoughtful. They didn't really come to that conclusion. That's something they were taught and kind of force fed through culture. They think that not because they thought that they came to that conclusion independently. They think that because they were told to think that by celebrities they follow in media and movies for decades of their life. They've been kind of fed this feminist narrative. So it isn't that surprising that they think that. As far as the hatred of women or misogyny, yeah, it's all a bunch of nonsense. It's built off love. Like I don't like seeing women do bad. I'm an American, so just even in that context, I don't like seeing American women be fat and miserable and depressed and take psychiatric medications and end up single mothers and broken families and drinking alcoholism and things like this. For example, I saw a study about a year ago that showed that American women in their 50s alcoholism was skyrocketing. And that's just like one micro example of what's happening to women today. So I like seeing women do well and they're not doing well. And in many ways, feminists don't even disagree with us on that. They call it the paradox of female happiness, the decline in female happiness since the 1970s. Yeah, I think you did a female file on that, didn't you, Jen? Yeah, I know it's amazing. And the number of women on anti-depressants, the number of women who will outright say they're not satisfied with their lives, they're not happy with their lives even though they have more choices, they have more economic power. Just materially, women are actually doing much better than men are in terms of real wages, entry into the workforce, job status. Obviously, in terms of higher education, women are massively outpacing men, but still cry that more needs to be done for women. And yet despite all those measurable markers of success, every survey that's done shows women expressing less life satisfaction. Well, meanwhile, guys are often reporting that they're doing all well, okay, despite all the very measurable injustices that men are experiencing. So yeah, it's hard to argue about that. Definitely, I recommend you viewers look at the Femengo file on the state of female happiness. Do you remember the number of that by any chance, Janice? No, I don't. It's a very good one though, and it's well researched and well presented. So have a look at that on that topic. We got a few more tweets to get to. I want Anthony to respond to it. I just wanted to say one thing about the everything black and white thing is that the Heisenberg uncertainty principle has something to say about that. And that's all I'm going to say. If you're interested in another comment about what black and white means, but anyways, let's carry on to another tweet, which may be a little bit more controversial. Women are peak sexy when they are submissive and obedient. Where is that coming from? Well, first of all, it reminds me of what Janice brought up a minute ago with the misogyny stuff and sexist stuff. And that's that, how dare men have any opinion in public about what women should do. Exactly. Which they want a package deal in with being dictatorial and controlling, which I'm not. I don't think men should be that way. I don't believe in being domineering, which I view as fundamentally different from being dominant and assertive and things like that. So this to me, this is my opinion. This is what I think is an assertive, masculine young man. This is what I like. I don't think this is a universal application to all women. So this is a personal statement of what you're attracted to? It's a personal one, but I also believe it's very normal for young men who are masculine, have high testosterone, who are legitimately masculine, today would be called toxically masculine. So to me, this is just fairly normal for a cisgendered heterosexual young American man and for any Canadian man or whatever. It's okay if people think differently than me on that. Unlike the feminists and things like that, I'm not a dictatorial control freak. I don't want to silence people who think differently than me. I'm not opposed to people having different opinions than me, but this is my opinion. And I think it's very sexy when women embrace this. I think it's a natural part of being feminine and being a woman. It's one major path in life that women are gonna take. And yeah, I think it's wonderful. And there's nothing, what do you call it? Dismissive about it, it doesn't make you weak. It doesn't make you a low person. I think it's very wonderful. This is very attractive. The same way women, like a strong, confident man, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's very feminine for women to want that in their life and to pursue that. And this is the inverse of that, but we're not allowed to say this today, which is one of the reasons I said it. This is the one of the- It's a bit of an inverse, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Janice, what do you think about that? Well, I have no problem with somebody saying this and I think it's true too. I mean, come on. Every movie, even in this woke world that shows very attractive men and women interacting, aside from the ones where they have women as superheroes, but even there, yes, I think that we see that women are attracted to a certain kind of traditionally masculine behavior in men and vice versa for men and women. So that, I mean, honestly, I just, I don't see this as particularly controversial at all. Did you get negative feedback from this comment, Anthony? I mean, apparently I got some laugh faces and some hearts, so it looks pretty good. Yeah, you got that. And my Facebook has a more mixed following too, so I post different content to Twitter and Facebook. Twitter, it's almost all men with a few women. Facebook is much more personal for me and I've, you know, high school people and things like that. So when I post things there, it's to kind of test, engage what the average person's gonna say in response to it. Unlike my Twitter, which is much more managerial following and things like that. But to your point too, I was gonna say with this, I lost trying to thought, but I'll let you know if I remember it. All right, I'll move on to the next tweet here because we don't wanna get to some of the user, the viewer questions as well. So here's another tweet and this isn't really related to make women great again or maybe it is related in a sense. It's, but is, you saying racism or you posted this, sorry, this isn't your comment. This is from PragerU. Racism isn't the biggest issue for black Americans, father absences. Yeah. We could talk about it. It's not your quote, but if we want to, we could comment on this. Yeah. Make it quick so we can get to your other tweets. Sure. So I think I found this from one of our black speakers. He shared it from not mistaken us from him. And it says, you know, it's an article by PragerU about racism and the black culture or community and things like that. I've seen this argument presented before too. It wasn't the first time I'd seen this that a single motherhood is particularly high in the black community and things like that. So it was just compelling to me and interesting and I shared it. I didn't even, you know, I didn't read the article like a word for word. I just kind of skimmed in. I found it interesting and shared it. Yeah. It is an interesting insight and I would tend to agree with it. Hugh Janus, anything to say on that? Absolutely. I've heard a lot of advocates, men's issues advocates make the same point. Black men in particular, the last ICMI one advocate there was talking about that problem in the black community and how devastating it is, particularly for young black men. So for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's move along then. Feminists smashed the old patriarchy. So we're building a new one in May. Yeah. A new patriarchy. So as you've heard, feminists, they smashed the patriarchy. Apparently they're still smashing whatever bits of it are left. They keep smashing it. I don't know when that's gonna end. They've been smashing it for a hundred something years now. I actually say that feminists, I say today that when patriarchy or feminists scream about patriarchy like today, it's delusional. They're seeing ghosts. We haven't had a patriarchy in America in decades upon decades. So when they say that today, it's really bizarre and they think it's still an issue and that all this stuff nonsense. Well, I think thinkers like Warren Farrell will claim or I think I've heard Warren argue that there never really was a patriarchy. Not in the, there never was a patriarchy in the sense that feminists describe patriarchy. And I think Peterson's made the same argument and we touch on that in the birth of feminism as well. Yeah. Janice, do you have anything to add? Sorry, go ahead. Go ahead, Anthony. Oh yeah, they're making like a boogeyman out of it. It's a straw man. Yeah, they make this. So I've heard that argument too and I'm not, I haven't dove into that too deep but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case too. So what does the new patriarchy look like? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So the new patriarchy, when I actually say that I'm speaking more specifically to men being the leaders in their homes and their families and their relationships, which I think is very natural and very healthy for men and women who are heterosexual. So, you know, we call the 21 convention patriarch edition, I almost call it the fatherhood edition and we still do sometimes because that's really its focus. But I call the patriarch edition number one because it triggers people and arranges them. But number two, I really do believe in, you know, man led relationships and father led homes. And to me, that's, you know, you know, patriarchy at a micro, you know, family scale. And that to me is a very healthy, positive thing. And I think that's what people should choose. They shouldn't be forced to adopt. This is what they should genuinely come to a conclusion as in terms of an actual decision in their life. And so in that sense, that is the new patriarchy where men lead their families. And there's not this co-equal kind of three hands on a steering wheel relationship for a family, but tends to result, I think, in a depolarized mess that ends in divorce and broken families. Anthony, there's a strong parallel with religious philosophy here through a lot of what you're saying. So is there a religious component or religious Christian religious inspiration to your movement? Well, I will say that I'm very interested sometimes in religious texts like the Bible and the way they talk about masculinity and femininity and men and women, all these things. But I myself, I'm completely secular. I'm an objectivist. I was raised Catholic and then I abandoned that when I was like 17. And I've been an objectivist now for over 10 years. So my conference is not a religious conference. None of them are. None of the speeches are, I don't think we've ever had a religious speech at the conference, as far as I know, and over 10 years and 18 events. So it's a very secular conference where all races, religions are welcome. And we have Mormon speak of the conference, Catholics, Baptists, Jews, Muslim maybe? Maybe. I know there's some Muslim attendees. So it's a super diverse, and it's diverse to the point that, feminist and woke culture should be jealous of us. We've been able to organize and amalgamize, I guess it might be the word, so many different cultures and races together. It's really amazing seeing the conference. We blur all the faces out. Can't really see the attendees for privacy, but actual diversity of people, the conference and demographics and races and religions is seriously impressive because what binds us together is a pursuit of masculinity and femininity and positive relationships and healthy relationships and things like that, which to me comes from focusing on reality, rationality. I'm an objectivist. I care about objective reality. That is my God, so to speak. And the reason is my God's doing it for pursuing that. And I think that even highly religious people, they still have a high respect for reason and these things, logic and things like this. And that's why, for example, a lot of Christians do like Einrend, especially her views on politics and economics. Oh yeah, they do, absolutely. Yeah, and that's the thing. I mean, you are, it seems to me, you are attempting to forge relationships across a whole bunch of different subcultures. And I think your premise that relations between men and women now have never been lower at a lower ebb, have never been more broken. And that what good people of good faith should want is amity, love, mutual respect, empathy, mutual support between men and women. Lots of different people can agree on that. And it's very clear that feminism is not the way to that. And so, let's start talking about different ways that men and women can work together to achieve that. I think that's a wonderful idea. There might be disagreements about what specifically that's gonna look like. And obviously it's impossible to map it because it's a work in progress. But I think it's a wonderful idea. Thanks. And the secular element too is really important to me because I think secular arguments are the most durable in public. And that's why even, you know, some of our speakers are very deeply religious. They're very committed to their faith. I can imagine. The fact that they associate with me as an atheist and objective is startling to a lot of Christians until they talk to me and they get to know what I'm about and that I'm very serious about advocating for these values that they support strongly but from a secular position so that anyone can embrace them. Like I mentioned earlier, I wanna see, I wanna defend American masculinity and I wanna promote American femininity. Just for, you know, as an American, I wanna be able to see a young American like my little nephew was born recently a few months ago. He's four months old now. I wanna see that he can embrace no matter what faith he's taught by my little sister and her husband that he can embrace a masculinity growing up just based on being an American. Like what's that like? And for young women too, regardless of what faith or creed they're taught growing up, how can they embrace being a woman and becoming a mother and pursuing family independent of what they're taught maybe alongside it but otherwise independent too alongside what they're raised as whatever faith. That's a terrific Anthony and I think if we have one time for one more of these tweets and then we should get to some questions what do you guys think? You got anything? Can we move ahead with that? I'm good to go. Okay, here's one last tweet. Healthy women hate equality and relationships hate it even more in marriage and despise it with a burning passion in the bedroom. There's a little more to it too if you scroll down. I know, I deliberately put that part out because I know darn well that that will get us fully demonetized. Oh jeez. So if you noticed in my Piers Morgan interview I was very, he kept talking about gender equality, gender equality and I don't think he listened to what I said specifically which is that I absolutely support equality before the law for men and women for everyone and I mean that and obviously today I think that men are not treated equally before the law and we're treated like second class citizens and that's a big problem and feminists don't care about that because they don't care about equality before the law but in terms of the equality in the home and in a relationship and in the bedroom I think it's a very bad thing. I think this for example, I think equality is the opposite of polarity of differences between the sex is being magnified including when they're compliment or complimentary there should be a play and like a back and forth and a good interplay like that. So I don't think it's good. I think equality in a relationship means there's no leader. It means that if you look at it as a car as an analogy it's like three hands on the steering wheel. Someone in the passenger seat is grabbing onto and trying to drive it as well and I don't think that works and I don't think women like it. I don't think it's passionate. I don't think it's romantic. I think it's very negative and very bad thing. Like feminists I think are pursuing like what I and Rand would call the philosophy the zero. We're trying to zero everything out. They want to zero out masculinity to nothing. They want it or invert it. They want to zero out femininity so that women are not feminine. Like they don't even know what that means today. And like that feminist on that show, Piers Morgan he asked her name one good thing about masculinity. She had nothing to say. I've never heard feminists say anything good. Yeah. He went beyond that though. He said name one positive thing about femininity. I think it was exact question and she had nothing to say. I mean they have erased all meaning biological meaning for being a man or being a woman, which is as nuts. Yeah, she said that it was all, they were all just, that was gender stereotyping. Which is the typical feminist answer. I thought that was actually a fascinating moment and although I was so frustrated with Piers Morgan for the way he treated you, I have to give him credit that, obviously that's just his MO. And he did a pretty good job because that woman, she right away said, nothing wrong with the phrase toxic masculinity because we know that there are traits that are toxic in masculinity and she started reaming them off. I forget what she said. And then he allowed her to say that and then he said, okay, what are some of the positive aspects of masculinity? She couldn't say. So that's feminism in a nutshell, brilliant. It has everything to say about masculinity and can say nothing positive or indeed about femininity. Well, how can you have both? I agree strongly that having those feminists in the show is actually brilliant for them for a number of reasons to get the controversy and the combativeness going and all that. But those feminist boilerplates spit out what feminists today believe. I mean, she just like a robot, she just spit that stuff out. And she sincerely believed I think that was very sincere. She didn't, to her there was no difference between femininity and masculinity. The idea doesn't even make sense to her. That's all just gender stereotyping. Everything is social. Yeah. I wanna touch on your, yeah, sorry, go ahead, go ahead. So yeah, on this tweet, I believe it's firmly and I think that healthy women who are in touch with their femininity, they don't like equal relationships. They want a man to lead, they want a man to be strong. I don't think they wanna be in a dominant, most of them anyway, they don't wanna be in a domineering control freak relationship. It doesn't need to be 50 shades of gray up in here with whips and butt plugs and whatever else. I mean, if you like that, I mean, do your thing. But yeah, women, they want a, they want a relationship where a man is leading and he's dominant and he's confident in his ability to lead the relationship and to lead her and to guide her. And it's very normal and natural for women to wanna pursue that and they feel really good, I think. And in my experience, and my friends I've talked to. Well, what about your idea, your metaphor of the driver? I mean, you're driving along a trip. You change drivers. I mean, there's no reason why both women and men can't lead at different times or in different ways in a relationship and in a family. Can you comment on that? Can you give me a specific context where a woman would wanna lead something in a family? I mean, I think, for example, Sharpe. Okay, sure. She might lead the kids in getting ready for bed or she might lead the family and choose in what kind of vacation they make or even a choice of house to live in. You know, there's all kinds of different moments and issues that come up in a relationship and marriage in which, and she might lead when the man's just too tired. You know, I don't bother me now, you know? I don't wanna deal with that. Then that issue is gonna have to be dealt with by some form of leadership. I'm speaking of it more from a fundamental perspective and I don't see a big problem right off the bat with what you're saying. That in a specific context, like interacting with young children and things like that, women I've read are a lot better at understanding young kids, especially before they can talk. For example, navigating what different cries mean and things like that. Things that to men just don't make sense. We're not able to navigate it as well. But so for me, it's like, who is the leader in the home at the end of the day? Who is the leader in the relationship at the end of the day? Who has the final say on things? And so if push comes to shove, it needs to be the man's decision, the man's leadership. But I don't see a problem in the short term in delegating something like that. I think that to me is that would be very rational thing to do to lead your family. If you read a book by that book by Esther Viller, Esther Viller might say that women have manipulated men into that role and it was women's decision that men believe that they are leading the family. Maybe they aren't exactly leading the family. Yeah, she wrote The Manipulated Man, yeah, yeah. It's a fun book, it's a fun book. Yeah, yeah, it's quite interesting. It's a good debate, I'm just speaking from a generalized fundamental perspective on it and without getting into these very fun debates like that, that is a fun book for sure. Okay, I think that's all the comments we need to, your tweets that we need to go to but let's get to some of the comments in the, whoops, what did I get here? Smash you up, we already did that, right? Let me get us out of this mode here. Janice, go ahead and ask him a question. Anthony, a question while I look up these questions that I, Oh, Anthony, okay. I'm running out of questions. Is there anything more that you'd like to say about? You asked me one Janice over text earlier today and it was about brainwashing and how you were doing it. Oh, yes, okay, yeah. Yeah, how did you, I mean a lot of young guys, I think, have been brow beaten, I think, is maybe a not unfair characterization. I mean, a lot of guys that feel, if they dissent in any way from feminist orthodoxy, if they speak at a turn, that they're gonna be exiled from the human community, certainly exiled from the community of women and they have sort of taken on the guilt of being male, the notion that it's women's turn now, all that stuff, you mentioned this on the Pierce Morgan show. The future is female, men should lean in or men should lean out or they should just vote for female candidates, feminist candidates. They should step down from positions of power, give them over to women, all that kind of stuff. And I do meet a number of men who are quite sincere in saying they think society will be better off when women have more power and occupy more positions of power. Now, did you ever feel that or how did you get the strength and the conviction to dissent from that? Yeah, so I was never at a point in my life where I was a feminist. Even in my teens, I was more indifferent to it, kind of like politics. I just wasn't interested in politics until probably 2009, 2010. It just wasn't a thing for me that I was interested in. And feminism was kind of the same way. And had you asked me about it, I wouldn't have really had an opinion on it either way. As far as strength and conviction, it's just always, oh, let me put it this way. I could call it weaponized autism. So I don't think I'm actually autistic, but I've seen Peter Thiel, the co-founder of PayPal, talk about this in public speeches on entrepreneurship, things like that. And he talks about it today that a lot of Silicon Valley, these tech entrepreneurs and stuff that become millionaires, a lot of them seem to have autism or have developed it on purpose. And he's been trying to navigate like whether that's the market attracting that or whether actually entrepreneurs are developing these behavioral traits on purpose to have the resilience and the strength and conviction to pursue radical ideas that are not, they'll be heavily criticized and things like that. So I have had to develop that, maybe not in childhoods. Well, I don't know about childhoods so much, I haven't thought about that. But as a young entrepreneur, I know that I had to develop that pretty quickly. I know that right off the bat, I had a lot of enthusiasm for my first convention, but still some pushback. There was some fighting going on even at the very beginning, people trying to take over it, control it and stuff. And so as every year that's gone by in my life as an entrepreneur, I've had to develop more and more thick skin and resilience to the kind of public backlash I'll get even if it's within a smaller community or a larger community or even the whole world now. So yeah, it's been an incremental thing I've developed over time. And but I think it's also, it's been very natural to me even as young, my grandma, who I love very, very much, my maternal grandma would say I was very stubborn, held like a thick head. But she would say like with a smile, it was a very positive thing. And I think she saw the toxic masculinity in me kind of bubbling and where she came from in Croatia, she was born and raised in Croatia in Susak a long time ago. And I think she saw it as a very positive thing. She probably wouldn't be able to articulate it like that back in the day, but it felt like I was doing something very positive and she was nurturing that in me. You had a Croatian grandmother. Yeah. Oh my goodness. My background on my father's side is Croatian. Nice. Yeah. No wonder. No wonder I like you. My grandma, she actually escaped, you know, communism in Yugoslavia back then twice. The first time she got captured and they could have killed her in Mount Go, but they didn't. And she finally escaped to Italy and she was there like for a year in a concentration camp. And then eventually she came to New York and there's this huge deal in the New York Times and stuff. She had escaped all that. Okay, let's, I'm sorry. Hey, speaking of- Look at her a couple of comments. Mess of wives. I've got to get going. I promised my husband that we'd get to some of the stuff he wanted to do this afternoon. So I'm gonna have to duck out, but this has been great. Thank you so much, Anthony, for talking to us and clearing up some misconceptions about your great conference. And I wish you all the best. Thank you. Yeah, it's been awesome getting to know you and I appreciate your time. Janice, before you do jump out, let me just pop this quest, this little comment up by Julian who donated us $10 here. Thank you very much, Julian. You're a hero, Janice. You're a hero. You're one who has helped me considerably. Thank you for standing by men in our time of need. We are stronger together and must cherish one another. God bless you. Absolutely. Lovely comment. Very nice. Thank you so much, Julian. Thank you. And thank you for your generous donation. And on that note, we'll say goodbye to Janice. Yeah. Say Janice. God bless. See ya. Thanks for joining us, Janice. Talk to you soon. You bet. And Anthony, why don't we respond to a couple of questions if you've got a few more minutes? Yep. Okay. And let me pull up one right here. Audio's still going good, by the way. Yeah, audio's been steady. I mean, it could stand to be a little bit louder, which you might be able to adjust in the stream yard, but it's perfectly understandable and hearable and clear since we made that change. Okay, question for Anthony. Since some men's rights activists disagree with your arguments and tactics, would you consider yourself an MRA in spite of that? Interesting. I mean, on a regular basis, I'll say that I usually don't identify as an MRA, the same way I don't identify as a pickup artist or anything like that. I used to a long time ago when I was very young. My, I don't know, license tag, even license plate that had that in it. But I could say that I'm definitely not opposed to the men's rights activists community. I do have some disagreements with them as they would with me, for sure. But I do say that the men's rights activists, their whole community is part of the larger hemisphere. And of that, I'm very supportive of that. And I love what they're doing, especially in that I view the men's rights communities fundamentally as advocating for individual rights on behalf of men, boys, and fathers. And to that, I support it a million percent. And if that is to be taken as the definition of a men's rights activists, then I definitely am a men's rights activist. The first and foremost, I would see myself as an advocate of individual rights on behalf of everyone. And that to me is very, very important fundamentally. Cool. Okay, let me get you another comment up here and you can just speak to this. Any man who engages in marriage in 2020 is an absolute fool. It's not about whether or not the woman will screw him over. It's about that she can. Any comments on that? I do. So yeah, first of all, it is a problem, even in the best case scenario, in the case of you picked, you're an amazing dude. You've got your shit figured out inside. You happen to find or, you know, whatever, marry this amazing woman. Even if things work out perfectly the rest of your lives together, it's not healthy for your relationship that she has so much power in the relationship to destroy it. Like Janice has talked about, like a loaded gun. So like the comment was saying too, that she can, that's not healthy and your relationship would be better if you were treated equally as a man before the law as she would in the case of say, a domestic violence issue or any kind of divorce issue or things like that, which men are not treated fairly before that stuff. I 100% agree on that. Then I've mentioned that too in different videos myself. As far as the marriage though, I'm fiercely opposed to legal marriage today in the West. Opposed to what? Legal, legally recognized marriage. Okay. So I was married years ago, so to speak but I did not get a marriage certificate in the state of Florida or in Nevada. So this is something that I concocted because of my experiences in the hemisphere. Seeing the men's rights activists talk about how unfair marriage was for men and even men in the pickup artist community that would come there after a really nasty divorce trying to get back in the dating market and understand the modern dating marketplace. I'd just seen a horror story after horror story. So my experience with that marriage and what I'll do in the future is we had a wedding, we had vows, we had family come out, we had an officiator, so to speak. Rings, we had a honeymoon in Hawaii. She even took my last name legally. Went to the courthouse in Florida, went through this whole process, had a new passport, a new driver's license and all that. So we had all the functions of a marriage minus the government getting involved. So I am firmly opposed to any man today unless and until things dramatically change to getting a legally recognized marriage, including common law marriage, if you can avoid it. I know in Canada that's a lot harder. Yeah, I don't think you can avoid it in Canada. And even in the US, are you not considered common law after a period of time living together? In most states you are not. Is that right? That's right. I think it actually has been getting better, believe it or not, over time, which is strange. Like in Florida we had common law marriage, I think, until 1986, and then they got rid of it. Now they'll recognize it from a state that does have it, like Texas. Texas, for example, still has it under certain conditions. I think one of them is, you know, you live together for a certain period of time. Another one, though, is you have to officially announce that you're married in some way, like a newspaper. And if you don't meet these conditions and you're not common law married, in Florida though, in Nevada, where I got married, there is no common law marriage that will actually, that will exist if you do anything. Even if you announce you're married, they won't recognize it like I did. So yeah, fortunately, most US states don't have common law marriage. And if you are gonna do what I did, private marriage, you know, speak with an attorney first in your state, but most states don't have common law marriage, and it's a good way to evade, behold, disaster or divorce or a divorce court and things like that. So my divorce, so to speak, I lost nothing, which is pretty good for a man today. Yeah, excellent. Let's get another comment up here. How do you prevent a woman who understands the red pill and how feminism is destroying relationships, but her parents are liberal and just don't get it? I'm not sure what the question is here. How do you prevent a woman? I should have read that before popping it up because I'm not really, if, Carl, if you can explain a little more detail, what is the question here? Yeah, it's kind of like a half-finished thought. Yeah, it's kind of a half-finished thought, yeah. So Carl, will I be happy to look your question up if you can put it in the form of a question? Let's see if we get another comment on here. There was another one here. You can just comment on that on this statement. Toxic, stoic, these, oh, toxic, stoic, these kinds of men will bring everybody else down. Oh crap, I didn't really read that properly either. So it doesn't, as part of a conversation they were having, so it doesn't fit, I don't understand the context, so we'll have to forego that. I think they're talking about us, but screw them. Toxic, stoic is one of the guys, one of the viewers' screen name there. So I'm not sure what they were talking about. So Black Knight Fool says, so don't get married. Can't argue with that. In the state of marriage today, it's a one-sided bad deal for men. So if we don't have any more questions, then Anthony, did you have anything else you thought you want to leave us with here tonight? I just want to say I appreciate the depth of the questions you've asked. They're a lot better than what I got in Piers Morgan. And yeah, it really is going to have me think about these issues, especially if it comes up in even larger interviews in the future, I'll have to have zingers in response, just to kind of iron things out. The difference between traditionalism and a more positive future for women, make them regret again, things like that. So I enjoy the questions I'm getting with you here. It's been awesome. Well, thank you very much, Anthony. Yeah. And thank you for sharp as steel. Steel, sharp and steel, is what I'd like to say. Steel, sharp and steel. Yep. Okay, cool. Well, thank you very much for joining us. It's been a very interesting conversation. And I wish you all the best with the conference organization success there. Thanks. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It'll be a good time. Awesome. And thank you viewers for joining us and look for us again next week with Janice Fiamengo. And if you're up during the day and you want to have a join me for a coffee break with Steve on Studio Berlet, where I just go over quickly some of the things that come across my desk over the past since the last coffee break and it's a very informal conversation. So have a good night and thanks again for joining us.