 From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Mirantis Launchpad 2020, brought to you by Mirantis. Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE's coverage of Mirantis Launchpad 2020. And always love when we get to be able to talk to the practitioners that are using some of the technologies here. One of the interesting things we've been digging into is Lens, the IDE in this space as it's being referred to. Happy to welcome to the program, Mori Paksula. He is the founder and chief technology officer at Supervisor.com. Mori, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you, thank you. Thank you for having me. So if you could just, you know, help us understand, you know, your company, as I said, Supervisor.com. What's the background as the founder? What was kind of the impetus to creating that business? Sure, so Supervisor is like super simple because we believe and we know that the only way to test websites, if they can handle load, for example, e-commerce sites on Black Friday or when you are just about to make a product launch or that kind of stuff is just by sending real web browsers to the site that's actually click and scroll and do all the same things as a real users will do. But, and like our secret thing is that we can do it like before Black Friday. So if somebody wants to simulate, if they can handle like 2,000 users or 5,000 users, then they can use Supervisor.com to make it happen like today. So I'm just curious, you know, the concern always is about the DDoS attack and the like. Do you help companies along that line too? Or is it more the testing for proper traffic and we leave the security aspect to somebody else? Yeah, well, like with any load testing tool, you have to verify yourself somehow. And with us, it's super easy because we are integrated with Google Analytics and if you authorize us to read your Google Analytics data, then we know that you are allowed to test your site. Wonderful, well, as I said in the lead, you're using Lens, my understanding, you've been using it since the early day. Of course, a technology that closed source, Morantis has acquired that in the team. It's now also open source. So if you could bring us back to, you know, how did you get involved with Lens? What was the, you know, the problem statement that it helped you resolve? Yeah, sure. So the history super briefly is that Lens was developed by this startup called Contana. It's a Finnish startup and they made a couple of attempts in container orchestration like before Kubernetes and then Kubernetes game and they just felt like Kubernetes is super hard to kind of visualize or like understand what's going on because you have these containers flying around, you have nodes going in, going out. So they built this Lens and then since I've been working with those guys from 2015 or so, I was like one of the first outside users or probably the first user outside of the company. So that's pretty neat that you had that, you know, that project that they were doing as an early user, you know, give us a little bit of that journey. What does it enable for your company, you know, how's it expanded from kind of the early use cases to where it is today? Yeah, so if you're using Kubernetes traditionally or like how most of the people who haven't yet heard about Lens use it is by or from the command line. So that's where you use Kube CTL or Kube control. You say Kube CTL, get pod and then you get listing pods. But the problem is that all that data is stale on the screen. So if you train, try to, for example, for example, delete the pod and you issue Kube CTL, delete pod, blah, blah, blah. And then you hit enter and the bot already, it might be gone. So Lens makes like everything real time. And like, if you try to delete something with Lens you move your mouse on top of the pod and if it's getting deleted, you notice it because it just disappears from your screen and like it's not there anymore. And I think that's like huge productivity boost in a way that's how you can like get more and more stuff done every day as this kind of like when you're a developer or CS admin or whatever, you need to kind of like see what's happening in a cluster and how the nodes and pods are doing it and that. So back to your question when you asked like, how has the evolved Lens? It's like nowadays it's super stable. It handles big workloads very well. It went very, very early on. They had some performance issues with like large clusters for example, when Supervisor, when we run a load test with for example, 10,000 concurrent web browsers. So basically what we have in Kubernetes is we have 10,000 pods. And then when you connect something like Lens to it it just like started to spin up my fans on the laptop and eating all the RAM. So I helped them a lot with my special use case of running like super big kind of fMural workloads there. Yeah, it's an interesting discussion. And in the whole container space there's all that discussion of scale. Of course, everybody thinks back to Google and how they used it. So we know it can go really big, but environments I needed to be able to work really small or use cases like yours I needed to be able to first use that usage when you need it and go back on that elasticity that we hope for in cloud. So I'm curious, what's your expectation with it? Going open source, coming into Mirantis as a long time user of it, what do you expect to see? Well, I think like Mirantis offers the right kind of home for the product because they really get what's happening in the space. And I think they're like commercial offering on top of the open source will be around authentication. That's why like kind of understood from the press release. And I think it makes sense because like developers don't want to pay for these kinds of tools. And there are other tools that are commercial. And even if it's like just 100 bucks per year, I think that's not going to work out with most of the developers. And you kind of need this kind of long tail developer adoption for this kind of product to succeed. And I think that kind of like authentication, like centralized auth and like who can see what and that kind of stuff. It doesn't like affect most of the startups or indie devs, but like for any company who's doing like real business, those are the features that are needed. And when you use that the product for business, then I think it makes sense to pay also. Yeah, absolutely. There's always that challenge developers, of course, love open source tools if they can use them. And the packaging, the monetization isn't a question for you, it's for the Mirantis team. What would you say to your peers out there, people that are in the space, what are the areas that they say, oh, if I have this type of environment or if I have this team, this is what Lens will really be awesome for me. What are some of those things that you would recommend to your peers out there from all the usage that you've done? Yeah, so let's say it's three things. The first thing is what I already mentioned, the real-time-ness that everything updates live. The second thing is the integrated metrics. So you can, for example, follow how much memory or CPU something is consuming. It's super helpful when you want to understand what's really going on and how much resources something is taking. And then the 13 is that Lens is great for debugging because once you have deployed something and something is kind of off and it's kind of hard to reproduce locally, especially with this kind of microservice, the architecture, whatever you might have is that you can just like go inside any pod or node instantly from the UI. You don't have to like, again, you don't have to use Qtbl, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you have just like in there also because you are already in the, but it's the fourth thing is that if you manage multiple Kubernetes clusters, it's just super easy to accidentally connect to the wrong cluster. But like if you have this kind of visual tool where you can see in this, I'm in my production cluster or I'm in my staging cluster and you make the selection like visually there, then all the Qtbl and everything works just against that cluster. So I think that's like very helpful so that you don't actually accidentally delete something from production, for example. Wonderful, last question I have for you. Either lend specifically or kind of the ecosystem around it. What would be on your wish list for, as I said, either lend specifically or to manage your environments surrounding that? What would you be asking kind of Mirantis and the broader ecosystem for? I know that, well, let me think. Yeah, okay. First of all, I have like maybe 50, 60 issues still open at GitHub that I have opened there. So that's like my wish list, but like if you take like longer term, I think it would just be great if you could actually like start deployments from Lens. There are a bunch of deployment tools like Customize and Helm, but again, if you just want to get something running quickly, I think integrating that to Lens would be like super good. Just you would just like click like, I want to deploy this app. That's something I'm looking forward to. Yeah, absolutely. Everybody wants that simplicity. All right, well, hey, thank you so much. Great to hear the feedback. I'll always talk about the people that develop code as well as the people that do the beta testing and the feedback so critically important to the maturation development of everything in this space. So thanks so much for joining us. All right, thank you. Stay tuned for more coverage from Morantis Launchpad 2020. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE.