 I was on vacation. Chris and I spoke briefly was that Chris was taking the committee through basically line by line the master plan goals and objectives. So I think she's prepared to continue that discussion today for as long as you would like to do that. It appears to be the bulk of your agenda to continue with the master plan today. Chris and I also we have another meeting coming up at four. I can be a few minutes late to it, but she doesn't need to leave probably at five or four to get to that meeting. Okay. Okay. And I'll mention that Pat mentioned we need to talk about process, but I think that I would like to go back to the master plan. And of course, my question really has to do with how we're doing it and what we're doing it and what we're going to come up with. There have there are no minutes available for the last meeting. So if I could ask for a brief review Chris and then with comments from Andy and Pat of what we did discuss at that last meeting, I think that would be very helpful. Oh, thank you. So I can I can kind of summarize my notes. I haven't actually read them since last time, but I can summarize them comments that people made. I tried to write down as much as I could about what you thought about the master plan or where you thought it needed to go. And then I'll talk about the individual items. So Mr. Steinberg commented on a number of things. He wanted to make sure that everybody knew about the housing production plan and housing market study and that they should be incorporated into the master plan. I think that at least the housing market study, I believe has been incorporated by reference by the planning board, but I can check that. I'll check the minutes. He mentioned the fact that the demographics of Amherst have changed since the last since the master plan was written. Master plan was really completed by about 2008. And then it was edited and tweaked until it was finally adopted by the planning board in February of 2010. So certainly our demographics have changed somewhat since 2008. We also have a census that's coming up in 2020. So that's something to keep in mind as we move forward and work on the master plan. Mr. Steinberg mentioned that there was falling school enrollment, which is part of our situation, our new situation that we're going to need to deal with and that the population, the age of our population is increasing. It's also increasingly difficult for families to start here in Amherst owning homes because the price of real estate is so expensive. Mr. Steinberg mentioned climate change as an important issue that probably wasn't as much in the forefront in the 2000s as it is now in almost 2020 and that we really need to incorporate reference to the climate change and what we're going to do about it. And that he mentioned also that some forms of renewables are not clean. And so we have to think about that bio, what do they call it? Biomass? Biomass is something that we could call into question. He mentioned that technology is changing rapidly and that's certainly true. I don't know how if everybody had cell phones back in 2008, 2010, but that's certainly a difference. We have many references to the select board and town meeting in our master plan and those need to be changed to the new form of government. So I guess his final conclusion was that the facts in the master plan need to be made clear and correct. So we need to at least go through and edit the language. Looking at things that Mr. Schreiber said, he also talked about the factual underpinnings of the master plan and that it was important to make sure that everything was brought up to date. Ms. D'Angeles mentioned current information about demographics. I think that our population has changed to be more diverse as time has gone on and that's something that needs to be recognized and we need more affordable as well as market rate housing and moderate rate housing. She mentioned that that was an important factor that sometimes we forget when we're having conversations about housing. How do we address the needs of moderate income families and what can be built for those who have moderate income and that's a question because developers don't generally want to build something for that price range. They don't get any tax incentives for building the low income housing and then they don't make as much money selling or renting. Ms. McGowan mentioned the master plan is really the bulk of it was done in 2006. There was no implementation body set up and we recognized that. The planning board was called upon to have representatives on a master plan implementation committee and they were already working very hard on all their own subcommittees so they declined to participate and the select board didn't assign anyone to an implementation committee so that's potentially something that you want to take on. So parts of the master plan have been implemented and parts haven't and Ms. McGowan mentioned that we didn't implement it in a systematic way which is certainly true. When I go through the items one by one you'll see that most of these items are fairly broad in scope and we have achieved parts of them but not we haven't achieved them completely and she mentioned that inclusionary zoning is not in the master plan. Even though I believe inclusionary zoning had been adopted by the time the master plan was signed but I don't think there's any reference to it in the master plan so that's something that we need to address. Ms. McGowan stated that she feels that we should be requiring 15% of all new developments be affordable. Trying to remember what everybody said. Mr. Steinberg moved that the CRC recommend oh that was about the public way yeah so that was Nate's item on the dog park. So we have a lot of plans that are now considered to be part of the master plan but they're really not I don't believe listed anywhere and those would include the open space and recreation plan, the transportation plan, the housing market study and there are probably other plans out there. They were talked about during planning board meetings and incorporated by a vote of the planning board but I don't think that we have actually listed them so that would be an important thing to do. Mr. Schreiber stated that parts of the master plan were actually old by the time they were written which is also probably true. So our form of government has changed and that's very significant. We need to have an implementation committee to track what has been implemented and what hasn't. Oh the other thing Mr. Schreiber mentioned and I think the planning board is particularly aware of this is that the downtown was very different when the master plan was written. I think the boltwood place was built in 2010 so that was either just being started or you know there was talk about that building back in that era but none of the other big buildings had been built. The development on University Drive and North Hampton Road and all the new things that we're seeing we didn't have any sense that those were coming along back then. Ms. McGowan recommended that there be a low interest loan program available to families who want to buy houses in Amherst and someone else mentioned that two family houses are a good idea and we should allow them in all parts of town. Ms. McGowan mentioned a group called Nestor Lee that has begun in Cambridge where I think it's an online organization that puts students and young people together with empty nesters to make housing more affordable for young people. Someone said I think it was Pat DeAngelis said the core values in the master plan are good so I appreciate that. The basic master plan is good we have to tweak the details. We talked about what the role of the planning board is via the vis-a-vis the master plan because the planning board is designated by state law to create the master plan but our town charter says that the town council will I don't know if it's adopt or approve I can't remember which word was used but certainly the town council has a has a role in this. Is it review and approve is that it? I think it was approve but adopt was the role of the planning board by statute. So Ms. DeAngelis mentioned that she thought it would be good to have working groups that would work on different aspects of the master plan people who are interested in different topics and I think Ms. DeAngelis mentioned that she's particularly interested in housing. Someone else wanted to have a permanent farmers market that may have been Sarah Schwartz and oh we talked about what are the edges of the village centers that's always been kind of a nebulous thing we had a map in here last time I came in and there are circles on the map that show you know what the core of the village center is and then show what I think it's like a 15 minute walk from the center of the village center but that's always been a question where exactly are the village centers and where are we talking about developing more densely and perhaps the land use policy amount needs needs to be adjusted and then someone whose initials are CS I can't remember who that is I probably should but I said that we should connect transportation with village center planning oh that's Kathy Shane thank you she spoke from the audience yes why I was not remembering she attends all CRC meetings so that's that was an important item I thought yeah repeat please Kathy Shane said we needed to connect transportation with village center planning and I do think that's very important of course we have a lot of transportation options in the downtown but that's not necessarily true of some of our village centers so I don't know if any of you have had a chance to do more reading if you have more questions about the master plan or if you just want me to launch into continuing on with what I was talking about last time I have a couple of questions the master plan mentions sustainability but it is not clear to me what it means by that yeah I think that's a good question I think that was something that was a it's a popular word that's kind of tossed around and it means a lot of different things we have now a sustainability coordinator Stephanie Ciccarello and Stephanie was she was working on alternative energy sources back at the time the master plan was done but I don't know if her focus was so much on sustainability in general but now it is so it is going to become more of a topic and I think what it means is that we don't want to use our resources glibly we want to preserve our resources use them in a way that is the least destructive to the environment and there are probably ways that we need to do that that we don't know about and and perhaps you would want to speak to Stephanie at some point about what efforts she's making I think she's the staff person for the energy and ecac is that what you call it ecac so she's the person who would be most knowledgeable about that topic if that's something that you wanted to hear more about well I know that we have net zero for town built buildings and we have no requirements for privately built buildings and as Andy points out it has to be economically viable for them to do it so there may be that and this is you know just off the top of my head but some town structure of incentives to the private developers to include you know solar power or whatever to to think about and maybe spend some extra money maybe heat exchange pumps or some of the things that are really reducing energy use since we don't really I don't there may be federal programs but I don't even know what programs are left anymore but I see Dave looking I've got a hand there sure so I think this is an excellent question and you know pausing here for a minute to say when we move into revisions of the current master plan clearly this section and anything related to sustainability needs to be expanded greatly it's fascinating to me to think that back in 2010 to be honest we weren't a lot of the general public was not talking about global climate change back in 2010 there were many researchers and people who were well well advanced of of the rest of the world saying wow we've got a problem but look at how far we've come in nine or ten years and now it is on the forefront of everyone's consciousness so clearly this document the original master plan didn't speak to that and I think there's ways working with Stephanie and the ECAC that we can bring much more into a revised revised document and we're looking at its sustainability across the board as Chris said we're looking at we're looking at energy consumption we're looking at carbon footprint we're even looking at runoff and pollution and you know many people might think in in today's Amherst that we have a handle on on stormwater and that we're doing a good job with stormwater we're you know I might I don't want a hazard to guess as to how we're doing on stormwater what I would give us for a grade we're not failing but we're not getting an a and most communities aren't so what's going into every time it rains where does that stormwater go what does it contribute to pollution in the middle river Fort River and the Connecticut River so there's a lot we can do in terms of sustainability agriculture and how much food and resiliency is all part of that sustainability how much food do we grow in Amherst how much food can we grow in Amherst we have over 2,000 acres of farmland protected in Amherst how much of that farmland is actually growing food as opposed to growing some of it might grow tobacco or trees or shrubs or other non non food related items so anyway there's lots that we can do in this that category I have one small thing are we supposed to be recording it we are recording it says the recording on it oh great time's moving thank you excellent so I wanted to mention the fact that even though there's not a net zero requirement for new buildings in town many of the developers are choosing to develop their buildings and try to achieve lead certification and various levels of lead certification so that is really in the forefront of many people's minds and often when you see an architect's name they prominently display that they're a member of the AIA American Institute of Architects and that they have lead certification so that is becoming a very hot topic okay so I think we left off oh sorry yeah so just to answer one question and then get back to one small piece just to give the record complete section 9.8 I'm looking at the charter 9.8c no b is adoption the master plan or any amendments there too shall be approved by the planning board and then be submitted by the town manager to the town council which will shall hold at least one public hearing there on the town council shall adopt master plan with or without amendments so it arises from the planning board but it adoption so it's Charter Section 9.8b and the other thing that I was I when Mr. Shriver brought up the question about the historic nature of downtown and it coincided with the note that I had in when I did my review of the plan and when you're looking on page under land use 3.3 I think it's a emphasize preservation historic areas of downtown village centers and other specific districts and residential areas key resource areas what my note that I wrote next to that is what are significant historical aspects of downtown because it says emphasize preservation of the historic areas of downtown I think that we recognize that some things may be viewed as historic and some things not as historic and that that was a piece that might benefit from more exploration yes so we do have a new local historic district that is to the west of downtown and that was established in order to protect the historic character of that neighborhood I understand that the local historic district commission is interested in exploring other areas of town to establish as local historic district so perhaps they would want to look at the downtown and see what historic aspects of the downtown they would want to preserve it's called the Lincoln Sunset local historic district so it's in the Lincoln Sunset neighborhood I think it stretches up to Fearing Street and down to Amity Street roughly there is one problem with that the group wanted to include the west side of North Pleasant Street and we're not able to get that done and that's one of the areas when we talk about where is the edge of the downtown center it's kind of a I believe that street is zoned like business at this time and it's one of these things that the local history district was in terms of not every house is a historic house but it was to do with the character of the neighborhood and the history of the neighborhood and when you look at that stretch of houses not all of them are absolutely beautiful but the stretch is very New England and at this moment that may be the only thing that would be left to denote oh this is an old New England town down here so that is one of the areas of concern right now that that that particular stretch and I know that it's a place of possible development I'm going to give up my seat oh no well I'll let you get yourself settled but the other thing that I had brought up last time was that as a way of an example the historic commission had had a debate about whether it was the most recently the Bertucci's restaurant that was really a building built as a 1950s era Chrysler dealership was really an historic building or not and what constitutes an historic building is therefore what the question is is a 1950s or a car dealership historic and that was the piece that we were that I was thinking about that we need to have dialogue yes yes I just wanted to say that um technically or the way we observe things is that anything that's over 50 years old is considered to be historic so pretty much all of Echo Hill would be considered to be historic which I think is funny because I live in a 1960s you know Cape and Echo Hill I don't think of it as historic but anyway that's the technical definitions as of today more than 50 years old so 50 years anything that's more than 50 years old and the historical commission has talked about changing that policy to be anything that's older than 75 years old but they haven't actually changed the policy so do you um I was interested in Ms. Pam's comments about the west side of Kendrick park which is also the west side of North Pleasant Street and the fact that that was not included in the local historic district and I think that the intent there was that um people wanted to have some flexibility to perhaps develop that area it is some of it is in the limited business district and I think some of it might be in the RG but the feeling was that that was so close to the center of town that they didn't want to you know completely rule out the development of some of those properties so I just wanted to mention that because Mr. Schreiber is here and he was probably part of that conversation when it was before the planning board and Janet McGowan has her hand up and knows a lot more about this so I was in town meeting during that vote and had talked to some people who worked spent hours and hours doing all the research on those houses they wanted to include those houses and they couldn't do it politically and get support for the districts they dropped them out and so that was set on the floor of town meeting they wanted to put it in but they couldn't get it and then even it was in the historic district it doesn't mean that those houses can't be touched and so they just any any changes to them would have to go through the historic commission and it could you know keep the look of it so they could get bigger they could get taller they might have to keep the facades or the materials that are used would have to be in conformity with the look of it but the houses themselves were considered a part of the district also Kendrick Park had a whole bunch of houses on it and so you know when you look at the edge of downtown or that question is you know those used to be residential houses there too so I think that was a political decision not a historic or you know history decision and so that doesn't have to stay so yeah but it also is true that changes to historical districts further political ends so I think that we need to know what we're going for I think anything can be used in both directions okay the language that Janet McGowan was using is really interesting and I would kind of like to see some of that in the plan that when we're talking about preserving the character of a New England town it doesn't always have to be the exact old buildings but the character can mean houses made out of some made out of wood or some of the because there are there's one or two houses in that strip that I think are newer but are done beautifully it could be two family but not things that are totally alien to the character of a New England town I think it's really important and I think it was an intent it's in the master plan many times retaining character that is there so I think that we have to figure out how to do that it's it's really complex we're not going to be doing it on the other side of the park that is not going to look like a New England town no matter what it turns out to be in the space between the two new buildings it's not going to and there's no that's no point in fighting for that because it wouldn't fit but it is the edge of a local history district so it seems an appropriate place to at least be a transitional in some way area Dave small related point but one could argue a planner could argue that the east side of north pleasant street perhaps many parts of it even before the larger taller buildings didn't look like a traditional New England town because much of it is or was one story 1950s construction even up through the Zana block one could argue you know before Kendrick Park in one of these so it's interesting that clearly the the look and feel of the west side of north pleasant is dramatically and has been you know very different for many many years so the history sometimes gets in the way of desire sometimes yeah if we probably lost the east side when the tannery there was a tannery there hence the name Tan Brook and I don't Jonathan Tucker might have remembered that building I don't remember that building being there but there was a couple of buildings where where Kendrick Park is now Kendrick Place is now there is there's been some talk that there needs to be a reinvestigation of the water levels behind the buildings there because of the tanbrook and that it may not in fact be suitable for large development because of the water there and there's if you look at the maps there's weird squiggles and kind of vague areas behind that row of houses yes we're pretty aware of where the tanbrook is there it's all under grounded from almost almost strong street much of the tanbrook has been been put underground and piped but um it's all there right because there is a stream where some students drowned a few years ago that it's called an intermittent stream but the people who live near there say it is not intermittent it's over over near mclellan where tanbrook daylights probably yeah these are things that people have been telling me in the last couple months so you know a lot more than i do i'm not aware that anybody is drowned in that yeah so i'm a student it that way so anyway do you want to continue kris go ahead yeah so as far as i know we ended on page 3.9 of the text of the master plan in the land use section and i think we were about to start talking about objective lu.3 which is preserve key undeveloped lands and so amherst i think is doing a really good job at preserving key undeveloped lands maybe mr schreiber has something to say about that no i'm sorry i'm trying to catch up so you were we're in this land use section of the text we had started going through the chart at the end the matrix but it proved to be that the matrix didn't exactly match the text of the of the master plan so we shifted back to the text so where i have a note that we stopped the last time was on page 3.9 of the text and in the middle of the page there's objective 3 sorry that was and it's there's a big bold note there preserve key undeveloped lands yep so as we all know amherst does place a high value on unique landscapes and natural resources and i'm glad that mr zomek is here to talk about that we did have a lot of mention about various lands in amherst in the open space and recreation plan lands that were already preserved and lands that are being contemplated to be preserved and the conservation department in combination with the planning department usually applies for some c-pack funds every year and also funds from the state to preserve lands and i don't know if you want to go through each of these items but i believe that an inventory was done as part of the open space and recreation plan so that would be lu.3.a and evaluation of resource lands on the basis of environmental quality risk and connectivity that's probably been done to some degree but perhaps not thoroughly identify areas to preserve areas where a varying combination of preservation and development should occur and areas to allow development with only modest controls so this is something that we don't always know when lands are going to be coming along for instance the hickory ridge country club we didn't really have any reason to believe that that was going to be a piece of land that was available to the town for acquisition say 10 years ago when the master plan was put together now we understand that because of some environmental issues climate change as well as a lack of interest in golfing or a lowered interest in golfing that golf course has not been as successful as the owners hoped and so the town is actually doing just this trying to purchase that property for preservation of part of the land for development of part of it for solar panels and then perhaps allowing some other uses to occur along the frontage and i don't know if you want to hear anymore about that but that is being done. So this is the section that always fires me up so um i wanted to know like when i read this section i would think that you would inventory all the natural areas open land and make an assessment of them and then decide okay how do they need to be protected do we need to you know if it's if it's zoned for too intensively should we change the zoning should we put these these lands you know high risk or high priority for acquisition um so that's like a big management thing and so has that been done that would be a question to ask mr zomek but i think it has been at least partially done in the open space and recreation plan so yeah i'd be happy to address that if it's okay with the chair or the vice chair yes totally so yeah i think a lot of this is is referenced in the open space and recreation plan and and has been for many years um different parts of town have been assessed over the last 50 years for their environmental resources for their sensitivity um i'll give a couple of quick examples because i know at one of your previous meetings i went through kind of the open space section of the master plan in a little more detail but i know we're going through the goals and objectives but for instance you know the mount hoyoke range has for many years been identified as a priority because for a number of reasons it's uh contiguous with other state lands it's of high scenic value it's of high rare and endangered species value um recreational value for trails and running and hiking etc etc likewise lauren swamp was a high priority because it is the source of much of our drinking water so the open space and recreation plan basically draws big large blocks around different parts of town agricultural land for instance so some more current if you will and and kind of speaking to to what's changed as christ just did about since 2010 so one of the areas that's identified in our open space and recreation plan are the agricultural lands associated with hampshire college so when the master plan was finished in 2010 and the open space plan was updated in 2017-18 we really didn't know much at all about hampshire's situation fast forward to today well clearly the agricultural lands hampshire is the holder of about 650 acres of land in amherst and those lands much of them are farmed so they are of a high priority for preservation not the core campus not the residential areas but the agricultural lands so i think in answer to janet's question all over town we have identified resource areas um that we believe should be protected now i will put this in the context that amherst has been and continues to be a leader in open space preservation so realistically and i've said this at many meetings our acquisition of open space i think our program is going to be ramping down over the next call it five to ten years i don't see us you know purchasing another 1500 acres of open space there frankly there just isn't that much land left to protect than amherst if you take out the land of umass of amherst college hampshire college again i've identified some of the farmland but we've protected thousands of acres of open space for water supply for trails for places like pufferspond we've protected most of the farmland that needs to be protecting protected so we're going to be ramping down our acquisition program and ramping up our management program we do need to do a better job at managing our conservation lands we need more resources we have bridges we have trails we have a habitat that we want to manage we have dams we own dams we need to maintain those dams and dikes so all of that needs to happen so so i think i think we've done a lot of that janet i think the we've also identified the village centers as places for growth and density to happen um are there lands that are in private hands that the zoning of it threatens the land they use the protection on the land um i guess before chris speaks i guess i would say that in general i think our zoning for the most part has been developed to complement and and work in concert with open space efforts so there are places for instance that are zoned outlying residential low density and have a farmland overlay so clearly that's an indication that the town thought that farmland should as much of that farmland should be protected as possible there may be some houses developed on that parcel parcel a b or c in that area but um to do that you're going to need to protect some of that land does that mean we need to buy that land to protect it probably not so so chris can speak more to the zoning piece than i can but pat did you still have your question i do have the follow-up to uh that it's because i wrote down in my notes here under areas for development are there any areas for development besides the village centers because we've talked about moderate income housing we've talked about the need for some moderate homes that people can buy um and we talked about cluster zoning and there's been some informal conversations about that but one of the questions i have is is there any land that would be suitable for that or any land say even that the town owned that they could give to as a way of helping pay for and courage such a development well a couple of thoughts on that one is that we are right before the select board um wrote off into the sunset they adopted a policy a real surplus property policy which i think you all may have gotten copies of so that policy calls for the town manager to pull together a group of staff to look at all the town property everything we own in amherst and assess its value to the town conservation land watershed land right of ways parks commons schools everything the town owns not the region that's the region's property but wildwood crocker farm fort river southeast streets campus the south amherst campus all of those are part of this inventory that we have and this surplus real property group would then assess and say well this 20 acre parcel in in loren swamp is is providing clean water we're not about to put anything on it in our lifetime maybe beyond because it's helping us to produce sustainable water source but what about the let's take um east street school that property has been owned by the town for a long time the schools surplus did to the town and so the affordable housing trust approached the select board before the select board wrote off into the sunset and said boy we'd really like to look at that property for dense affordable housing at the time the select board said yes so now it's incumbent upon this group that includes myself and chris and and gilford mooring and jeff cravitz and and we'll be at the you know we'll be working at the direction of the town manager our goal our job is to look at all the property the town owns and say are there properties that could be used for something else affordable housing could any of those properties be sold to get back on the tax roll so i guess that's the long way of answering your question yes we may have property that could provide affordable housing i will tell you this the town doesn't own a lot of land that is just doing nothing and is unencumbered we're not like a big city springfield waster boston chicabee they often have these lands in village centers that can they may have derelict houses on them that can be demoed and new housing can be built we're not that but we're going to do the best we can to look at that so i just brought the land use policy map in here so that you get a sense of where everything is in relation to each other i'm going to bring it over here and try to use the microphone while i'm pointing to the map just a minute please you can see the downtown and the village centers and the developed parts of town are colored yellow on this map so those are the places where we already have development there's a lot of green on the map in outlying areas particularly on the the east side of town and in the southern part of town some of that is already protected by agricultural protection restrictions etc but much of that land is also zoned for development and a question came up at last i think it was last year's 2018 rather uh town meeting whether we should look at certain parts of north amherst that are zoned for 30 000 square foot lots and consider upzoning that land to or downzoning it i guess to 80 000 square foot lots so that's something that the planning board has on its list of things to do and the reason it was brought to the planning board's attention was because of um a particular development that was proposed up there that was proposing wells and septic systems on the same lots and so the question was is 30 000 square feet big enough to have both a well and a septic system so that's something that it's on the list of the planning board to look at and that's in response to miss uh miss pam's question about whether there are lands out there that are developable those lands are developable but people are kind of pushing them to be developed in a less dense manner than in a more dense manner so there's a kind of push pull here we know we need more housing we know we want to have housing close to itself but there are potentially environmental reasons or other reasons why we don't want to have that in our outlying areas so that's a conversation that we're going to have to have as we go along and look at start to look at zoning in a sense what i hear you saying and i do is that in the areas that can be developed need to be looked at very individualistically to determine and then zoning changes would be made to address that that makes good sense go forward shall we continue yes so on the next page i think it's page 3.10 we talk about purchasing the most critical natural resource properties so miss mcgallon brought that topic up prior to our looking at this particular item and i think mr zomek has responded to it that we do have critical resource areas on our list of places to purchase but there aren't that many of them left however when areas do become available like hickory rich country club golf club we do move to try to preserve them the next one is revised growth management regulations zoning subdivision regulations health regulations to protect environmental resources and scenic view shits so that's something that we do need to do i don't think we've looked at the subdivision regulations since the late 90s we've been meaning to do that but we just haven't gotten around to it there are particular things that we can do to protect some of our environmental resources by shifting our zoning just like i was talking about earlier but that needs to be studied the next one is revise zoning overlay districts for aquifer watershed and farmland resources create a zoning overlay district for critical forest resource areas and we do have zoning overlay districts for the aquifer we have an aquifer recharge district down in south amherst we do have watershed a watershed district up in north amherst around the atkins reservoir and we do have a farmland conservation overlay district that's been established over a lot of the ro and rld properties in the outlying areas so i think we have accomplished that we have not as far as i know done anything with zoning with a zoning overlay to preserve forest resources so that's potentially something that we've gone to work on moving along on page 3.11 there's an objective that states protect key farmland and farming in amherst and i think we have made a lot of strides to protect farmland and farming we have huge swaths of land along both northeast and southeast street that have been protected with agricultural preservation restrictions there was one that was recently added at the hurl farm in south amherst it's on the east side of southeast street it's where the big yellow house and yellow barn are and i think there's about 62 acres of of preserved land there so we're continuing to work with the state to protect farmland a strategy that's listed under this objective is to provide incentives to encourage sustainable or green farming and forestry practices again probably mr zomek would be better able to speak to that particular item if he chooses to speak and if he's recognized yes please mr zomek i don't have a lot to say on that i think i think we have a long way to go to help amherst farmers be more profitable and greener i've said this for a number of years and it's really just a question of time and energy and resources but you know we we have a wonderful land base of protected farmland but there are agricultural properties that are protected that are probably not performing at their highest level and there's a number of reasons for that um some of our farms are actually that were protected early in the apr's history our apr program history i don't have the greatest soils um for growing things that are needed today and and valued like vegetables vegetable crops are very high value right now and many of our aprs were dairy farms and so as dairy went out um there it's hard to kind of backfill and replace those lost dairy farms with other things particularly if the soil isn't quite right so i think there's a bottom line is there's a lot we could do to more to support our amherst farms through farmers markets csa's um i will say one thing the town did do recently and i'm not going to get the verbiage on this right but the town did work with farmers to create and andy may recall this the select board work on this to create a split rate for um water use and allow a meter to be used for the home lots or the home um building and then allow a separate meter for um four um and i think it was more metering than rate but allow a different meter if you're going to irrigate your crops so there's some things we can do to help farmers be more profitable you have to be real quick in supplementing that what it was about is that the way that um sewer rates are charged to customers it's dependent upon water usage um the agricultural commission was raising the question on behalf of some growers that use significant water that when you're watering for crop purposes it's not water that returns to the therefore to be charged for the sewer cost of it was something that they were raising in the purpose of allowing a split so that water that goes into a farm could be divided and between the agricultural and non-agricultural uses was to differentiate the water that was ultimately going back into the sewer system that would be charged the sewer fees and in order to exempt the water that was being used for agricultural purposes from having that additional charge yeah and i i think that this could be a place where we could clarify what we mean by farming so like what are the priority farming so you had mentioned what was it that you said about vegetables well um what we see happening in the valley is that vegetable farming um boutique vegetable farming for instance growing greens year-round in in high tunnels essentially greenhouses is getting more and more profitable as as restaurants and we all try to eat more organic organically grown vegetables that's a a kind of a booming part of the agricultural side of things whereas dairy although at one time we had 55 dairy farms in Amherst we really only have one left so i don't see dairy coming back into Amherst but helping farmers to really work within the niches that they they are profitable in because that's what's going to drive uh uh successful farmers is is is profit so so we have somebody with a farming mother a farming mother yes but so food security is sort of should be part of this conversation should sustainability so we know that you know basically um animal farming is a contributor to global warming growing vegetables helps reduce the you know issues of food security so i went to i've never been to the actual NOVA northeast organic farming association meeting until this year and i went to one of the sessions on vegetable i want to become a vegetable farmer now and i went to one of the sessions on that he talked about the profitability of that in part because vegetable farming is not as it's kind of um how did he explain this that everyone wants good vegetables and they're willing to pay a premium for that as opposed to say milk or meat or something like that which is really sort of controlled at a national scale but vegetable it's much more of a local scale so your most many people are willing to buy tomatoes that they know where they're grown and how they're grown at a much higher price than say supermarket tomatoes that are coming from a farm far away but i also during that same week went to a hemp tour hemp farming tour so i did not know how much hemp is being grown in this area versus marijuana but but hemp farming is you know taking over a lot of crops and that you could argue that it's a good thing right because it's making small farms giving them a base of stability a cash flow but you can also argue that it might be a bad thing because that same hemp might be replacing tomatoes or carrots or the the food security issues so i do think we have to be careful about not supporting farming for farming's sake but but particular kinds of farming that we think contribute to the good of good of animals yes i have two things to add i had a long talk with a person who's running a composting farm and he said a lot of the soils um are depleted because they were farmed for years and that part of his effort is to compost food to to you know reinvigorate and strengthen soils which actually what grazing animals you know you know how a brookfield farm they move their animals across their fields to basically improve the soils but it was also one to mention that the harvard forest kestrel trust and a group of land trusts are in this huge effort in new england to kind of help reforest new england which is happening naturally maintaining areas for development and limiting that and at the same time looking to maybe do 30 to 40 percent of new england's food supply locally and so it's kind of this whole effort um they're putting together that maybe someone could do a presentation from maybe um christin deboer or the guy who's the head of the harvard forest but it's a it's a region-wide effort to sort of you know reduce carbon emissions you know concentrate development you know enhance forest because the new england forest is like takes as much carbon dioxide up as um the amazon and so it does that in the spring because it's a very young forest and so there's sort of this we could maybe kind of glue into that really exciting idea of you know really managing our lands and thinking about it sustainably. I just wanted to build on what Steve said and what Dave was saying one thing that and we've mentioned this before and Sarah's mentioned and agreed with it that to encourage farming to be profitable is we need to build our own commercial kitchen for our local farmers to use they have one in franklin county and it is so densely booked that my daughter has just made her own commercial kitchen which they're working on there's still some kinks that are working on and they think they will use most of the time because there's this huge growth now in preserving locally grown products and there's this just pickles in greenfield so the farmers locally are growing tons and tons of cucumbers they're going to greenfield they're becoming pickles and there's this whole move towards fermentation and kimchi so it's a very active food scene which has been nurtured by our local educational institutions Hampshire and UMass have had a big part in it and I think it's an area of really good possible growth but if we had somehow maybe Hampshire county and maybe could work on getting a commercial kitchen that would be more closer and would be accessible because the the need is there and the farmers are being very creative they're branching out into new products as we speak forward right so the next item that we would talk about would be on again on page 3.11 revise and expand farming overlay districts and create new forestry districts so we do have pretty extensive farmland conservation overlay districts as I mentioned they cover a lot of the land that is zoned RO and RLD in town we do not have any forestry districts so that's potentially something that we might want to work on I'm not exactly sure how that would work the way that farmland conservation works is that you can't develop in farmland conservation districts with a subdivision unless you build a cluster subdivision so the idea is that you would preserve a large portion of the land and cluster the houses closer together the next one on page 3.12 create regulations that protect and support farmers interests this is something that comes to our attention periodically because many farmers in town would like to be able to have events on their farms they'd like to be able to have weddings and parties and different things like that occasionally right now our zoning doesn't allow that and so it's hard for them to manage I mean they can't really manage to do that unless it's a one-time event so that might be something that we'd like to look into in our zoning to try to make it easier for farmers to hold these events on their property okay that's all I have to say about that one then yeah the farm that is out on Route 9 is you're going towards Belcher Town that had the restaurant on it for a while that was an accessory use but it's zoned agriculture which is why I think that building never has been able to be reused for anything so that one zoned RN residential neighborhood and that makes it very difficult for any kind of commercial operation to happen there and the and the gentleman who developed that property claimed that much of well I think he had to have most of his produce grown on his land and then sold in his restaurant and for some reason he just couldn't make that happen I think he also had a brewery in that location but it just it didn't come together very well and there hasn't been anyone who's been interested in taking over that property but that's an example of how our zoning doesn't promote businesses for farmers but then the other question is do people along northeast street and southeast street and places that are very rural and beautiful want to have larger places like restaurants on their in their neighborhood or is there a way that I think mad woman farm was one that came to us at one point and they have a big barn in the back of their house and they wanted to be able to hold events there educational events seminars things like that perhaps dances once in a while weddings but that wasn't something that fit in with the with our zoning and so we couldn't figure out how to allow that to happen and in that particular location it could possibly happen without much interruption with with the neighbors although you would still have traffic you probably have signs you probably have no decorations and things that would make it a visible event happening so we have to figure out a way of balancing the desires of farmers to hold these events with the needs of neighbors who might not want to be accosted by noise and traffic and things like that I have a question I live on southeast street and buy mad woman's farms fields are behind me and a real jerk knocked on my door one day and said do you want to buy this field and I said well not really because it's permanently protected so I get all the advantages without any work and then he said well if you buy this field you could you know basically open a brewery or in a brew pub if you know this whole thing and I was I mean I wasn't interested in doing that either but is that possible so if I owned farmland and an rn that I could develop a farm related business yes there is something called a farm restaurant farm I forget exactly what the it's in section five of the zoning by-law it's an accessory use it is very hard to qualify for that it and I think that was one of the things that the maple wood farm suffered from they couldn't make the product that they were selling match the percentage that was required to be grown on their property and it just didn't come together so that could be that we look at the farmland restaurant section of the by-law and try to loosen it up a bit to allow more things to happen so I think that's really something that we could do to help farmers to survive I suggest that an information process be done with local farmers and the zoning planning board and because right now there's a lot of creativity going on all over the place and new ideas coming up and find out what they're doing what they want to do what they might want to do in the future because I don't think that we most of us really imagine what they're up to but they're up to a lot because I think we should encourage I think it makes an interesting town an interesting place if there are events happening all over the place and you know so I would be really for it Steve yeah so anything to make the act of farming more sustainable I think we should support so if it's an accessory use that can bring in cash some way without displacing the actual farming we should try to support it so across the river there are a number of farms at least I can think of two that's a number or three actually that are also active wedding posters of weddings and those kinds of events and some of them are booked out five years so I don't know who plans a wedding five years from now but apparently somebody is so and these are great cash flow for these farms and they're great you know economic stability and so the caveat is so you don't want the parking or the event space to displace the actual farm production I think Dave you had to hand up I know we don't want to get it too far into the weeds and I agree with everything this really falls into that what I was saying earlier is we need to work creatively with the farming community to help them be more prosperous more successful I like what you said there Steve find ways to encourage more creative uses without displacing anything happening on tillable land and that goes to back to what you asked about that realtor Janet and I always take almost everything realtors say with a little bit of a grain of salt because they're trying to sell a property or help help somebody buy it and so their every APR is unique in the Commonwealth and many of them had exclusions where the farmstead is excluded from the actual protected land I know that the former mad woman farm there may even be a house lot associated with it I can't remember but what can happen on the APR is very specific it's less control what can happen on the the excluded portion that really falls to zoning I would add one thing to what Steve said is I do think there is a it's an art and and it's more of an art than science but what is the right amount of creative other uses on a farm for instance let me compare mad woman's location with maple wood farm maybe wood farm is on a state road with probably 30 to 40 000 cars that come into our community every day adding traffic to route nine probably isn't going to affect the neighbors much you know although they should have a say in that on route nine however you know mad woman farm on southeast street adding more traffic to southeast street adding concentrated for say weddings or kind of like what they've done up in Sunderland the maize you know the Mike's maize clearly adds value to the farm and helps those farmers be profitable but I do think there is an art to in a sweet spot there how much is enough how much is too much so I think I need that's what we have great planners for that's what we have a planning board and zoning board that's what we can all do is put our heads together and help farmers be more successful and help our community it enhances our community all these wonderful neat attributes like mazes and hay rides and and breweries breweries are cropping up all over when in fact maple wood farm was one of the first breweries in new england and certainly in massachusetts and here it sits vacant for how many years I guess I'm curious and again I'm taking us off but why has it why haven't these changes been made even if it were a special permit for that particular farm what it's it's a long story that we may want to do that one offline and we have tried the planning department and we've we've we spent many many hours trying to get that going and we can fill you in on that and we're we're still open to trying we want to activate that property with of course because the beer was good and the duck was wonderful yeah when you're talking about mikes maize in sunderland that the farmland that's a row of beautiful old houses and the farms are in back and my daughter does chili fest at mikes maize every year and at the chili fest there are every year more and more local breweries with their own stands selling beer I mean it's it's where you come and see all kinds of things that are happening including young musical acts so somehow it is in a very beautiful residential neighborhood I mean I was just thinking about that when you're talking about how it is a displace the residential and I guess nobody minds maybe because it is basically a farming community I don't know I'm sure people mind but they've come to get to know it and again if it was 10,000 people coming on a weekend that might tip the scales but mikes maize is open all throughout the fall and I think people come to realize the value of of supporting local businesses and I I agree with lots of kernels pieces of what everybody has said here I think we've we've just got to roll up our sleeves and and try to work with the farming community even more to do that I would did want to mention also the select board in 2015-16 made some adjustments to their approval to the farmers market because for many years what we heard from Amherst farmers is they were reporting to us and the agricultural commission that they couldn't get into the Amherst farmers market that and if you notice the composition of the Amherst farmers market is still probably 80% non Amherst farmers however the select board in their approval back a few years ago and and Andy was was an important part of that said you need to make sure that Amherst farmers have the right any legitimate Amherst farmers should be able to get into our Amherst farmers market on town property in our town center so steps like that are really well received by the farming community finding this conversation really rich and interesting and I'm so happy to hear from you about what you think but I suggest that we just do one more item here and then I need to go to my four o'clock meeting and but I'll be happy to come back at a future date and continue on in whatever format you think would be useful so the next one has to do with APRs continue to acquire APRs agricultural preservation restrictions and by development rights on critical farmland so we have bought a lot of APRs with the help of the state I think the state pays most of the amount and the town pays I don't know 10 20 percent something like that again Mr. Zomick would be more conversant on this but we do have a lot of APR land in town and in some cases it's actually not worked in the benefit of the landowner because it is the APR is so restricted that they can't really do much beyond their little excluded area and in some early APRs they didn't even exclude the farmhouse so they're they're very limited about what they can do but perhaps Mr. Zomick can talk about that a little more. Do you have anything more to add on that one? I don't give him the time I think you know moving through these items okay and there's no there's no retroactive excluding the farmhouse for the earlier APRs. You have to go through it in a process with the state and it involves the legislature and it involves trading I think it's two for one you have to find property elsewhere that you put under APR to accommodate the or you know to mitigate against the impact of the what you're taking out of APR so so I will be happy to come back and continue to talk to you about this when when you're ready. Well I really appreciate what you're doing and I understand Pat's comment but if this document is to become what we want it to become it may in fact be a long slow process because we don't want to just skim over things. Right and Christine is right that it was it is a rich conversation that we were having but I think then we have to look at how often we're meeting and other things to make this process a viable process so that we can then begin. Well I think at this point I'd really like to turn the meeting over to the chair because we're talking about meeting times and I think that is a good segue because we want to finish up because I know that Darcy's waiting for the room. Thank you. I wanted to thank you Chris for the notes that you took from the last meeting in the thorough way that you're going through this I think what we need to do is a process but not right now because you're leaving just think about how we're going to go and capture all of the thinking and discussion that is going on on each of the pieces of the master plan so that it can be cataloged and then presented back to the councilor wherever it is appropriate to go so that they get benefit of our thinking and our discussion that has taken place really has been very valuable and since Darcy is here I'll mention that I'd spoken with her on the subject that we discussed very much at the beginning of this meeting about the need to be thinking about those portions of the master plan that overlap in this case with ECAC but that was by way of example to others because I think we also need to think then about how we involve other boards and committees and commissions like ECAC so that we have the best thinking going into each of the sections thank you can I just yes I wonder if you want someone from the planning board or a few people from the planning board to sit with you too I'm just here in my new and overeager capacity I'm not here in an official capacity but it just seems like you know we're going through the master plan and there's a you know wealth of information and exchange I really appreciated your comments so thank you you're not being overeager you may be eager but not overeager maybe in two years I'll be like and I'm here in my old and tired capacity so yeah so that wraps up for today the discussion of the master plan I think it would be helpful if we could just keep working our way through at you know at future meetings so regarding future agenda items Wayling Greeny had contacted both of us regarding discussing the Amherst community connection I believe right and the homelessness problem the homelessness problem yeah and I had thought she had wanted to speak today so I quickly put that onto the agenda under the wrong I messed up a bunch of things but we I'd like to invite her to come to our next meeting which we have inside you know when that is so I'm getting into a period where you know school is starting for me it's starting for Dorothy yeah starting back up so I can no longer meet in this time slot I teach on Monday Wednesday one to Monday Wednesday so are you are in the morning before class you really don't want to have a meeting do you I could certainly meet Wednesday mornings but we already have gol Wednesday mornings okay then what about Monday morning see I'm teaching Tuesday Thursday 9 32 about two so I think Monday mornings would work for you no no good yeah okay we don't have Siri here so how should we should do a doodle how about if I try the definitely doodle poll as to what are are Fridays possible for people okay which gol starts at gol starts at 10 30 what about a what about Thursday Thursday's could be possible the other one I was going to suggest is Wednesday or even before gol yeah e 30 to 10 30 Thursday I'm teaching from 9 30 to 2 yeah so it's what about Wednesday morning Wednesday mornings didn't you just say you didn't have Wednesday morning Steven I like the idea of a doodle poll just because then it gives people time to look at their schedules and it really becomes crystal clear who overlaps where and having Sarah you know right do the doodle I'll generate a doodle poll and I'll start with my own restrictions and I'll try to find two our blocks responding to what Pat said first of all she wanted to talk about the process and we we've talked about how long is it going to take us to the master plan is it possible to meet more than twice a month I just feel that this is so important but it takes time and and just keep learning things out it's what else we have to do and moving forward yeah so we know we have the percent for art by law we have the housing product the housing study that will be referred to us so we're gonna start to get other things referred to us in the fall we're expecting some zoning bylaw changes from the planning board so every week is really hard for me so I should just flat out say that just because of other committees plus other jobs so I would prefer a longer twice a month okay I might suggest something in the way we structure the meetings um Steven and clearly there are things that are going to be referred by the council to the CRC and maybe it makes sense for us to kind of break up the agenda into kind of action items versus ongoing so master plan review is going to be kind of an ongoing thing we know there will be action needed on it but it won't be for some months is all likely whereas the council is going to be looking for a recommendation on percent for art any zoning that comes their way the council's way um what was the other one you just mentioned the housing study what's that the new affordable housing oh okay we just got this funding um there may be some additional there may be other asks related to parking parking or um there may be some other funding requests that we all know might be coming down the way so those will be action items and then and those will need to be addressed quickly efficiently and sent back up to the council and and maybe we look at the agenda that way and have the action items we might even front load the agenda items so we know we get them done and then have these ongoing discussions be the second half of the meeting or something like that I like that idea because I don't want to lose the conversation that's the hard part about saying let's move on um there's one other possibility I'll just throw it out there um three meetings a month one one that's specific not that we wouldn't look at the master plan in the way that we're talking you know after action items but that we had one meeting a month that was only the master plan possibility temporarily and it would be a temporary thing it I I could handle it because the craziness of this last semester is over where now it's a big slog we're in right now but we know what we're doing so I'm feeling more confident and I'm doing a masterful job I believe of organizing my class work ahead of time so that I can you know getting all my materials ready everything so but yeah I think what's critical for us is to figure out what to do with all of this review of the master plan so right now we're really it's a conversation but the expectation is that we will be taking a lead or at least advising the council on how it wants to you know get involved with the master plan review so in a way what we're doing is that we move to a bigger conversation that will involve more of us three times a week is hard but it's not all about me but now but we don't have to have all of us here all the time so if I simply can't do it like so I mean we're actually many of the committees are starting to operate without perfect attendance so we could certainly do that if we if we're okay with not perfect attendance well put that on the doodle poll not that I know how to design a doodle poll I have learned how to answer a doodle poll that's that's about where I am now I was just thinking what we really need is a scribe for all of our master plan discussion and where the notes are all I mean I have my notes each of us has their notes but if we just had some good yeah Dave I'm trying not to take on too much but I'm trying to relieve a little bit of I I sense and I appreciate your stress about the master plan I do I really firmly believe that if we restructure the meetings a little bit you are and we are going to be able to respond to what the council needs your action on immediately by their next meeting or by two meetings from there I will say that I think Chris and her staff their Chris takes copious notes on the master plan in this discussion so I think it's incumbent upon me and with Chris's help to propose to you a spreadsheet or something on the master plan to say here you know it might be you know here's goal goal one from 2010 no action needed you know whatever it might be action needed no action needed what that action is and come back to you so I think it's incumbent upon staff to come to you with the master plan all the feedback you give us and if you would let us organize it and present it to you and say is this what you meant by you wanted changes to this goal sustainability we need sustainability infused throughout the document you tell us where you'd like it and we will we will note that in a new kind of a master plan action document whatever that might be so I don't know exactly how this is going to take shape but I want to I want to allay some of your fears about who's going to take all that in I think Chris will take it in we'll give it back to you ultimately it's up to you to then say where is this going is it going to the ultimately it goes to the council so and I think it's really important that you know Steve last night we were talking about the the dog bark and so the council referred that to you it came to you I think you did your your thing it went back up I think the only thing and again I was on vacation they wanted something written so every time they want something a memo from the committee back up to them is is my guess that's what they want so if that's helpful I think we can take on some of that and and present it to you in your own words as to what what you wanted on section x y or z I think that sounds wonderful that sounds good to everybody else yeah and we'd have a chance to see it printed so we could go run through our notes and say yeah yeah yeah oh they've got this yeah I think that really gives us a better sense of control because it's it is overwhelming it's overwhelming but I don't want to slight I don't want to slight what we're doing because I think it's it's really crucial and let's all keep in mind I think over 600 people participated in the meetings for the master plan it took years to put together and this isn't going to happen overnight a rewrite or an update it's a lot of work for all of us so we're going to all need to be a little patient on how we get there is there anything else for the to go to the group so I guess I should say we have no more meeting scheduled right now and so the next meeting will be in September on a date and I would assume in the first week in September on a date that we can agree on be a dootable or you all could meet the first Wednesday so we've been on this first and the third Wednesday you all could meet on the first Wednesday of September without so the the Wednesdays are the fourth 11th 18th and 25th of September yeah that's what she's saying switch the week so that it's not the same week as the GOL meeting yeah yeah 930 I think it's a it's a it's a good time to start so you're just and this is before the poll you're thinking it might be the 28th and then then the 11th possibly so were you proposing to meet next week which is the 28th or or would we yeah no the problem that I have is I have a bunch of travel dates that coincide with Wednesdays during the next month and that's a rare circumstance and so the question is coming to a long-term resolution in the principal meeting on Wednesday mornings in general terms other than the travel conflicts is fine so are you saying that that perhaps for the next month a Monday morning or some other time would be better because you're going to be busy you're not going to be able to make Wednesday mornings most of them is that it well once we're out of town amount of town so it's sort of requires a week by week presentation and I don't want to do that okay okay so that's fine we could put in the finance is going to be maybe at 2 30 on Tuesdays or 2 or 2 30 on Tuesdays so then Thursday might have a 2 or 2 30 possibility for a meeting for CRC Thursday so I go out of town okay so Thursdays Sunday yeah okay so that's not good but okay one of the one of the hopes with meeting Wednesday afternoons was that we would mesh with the planning boards zoning subcommittee which means Wednesdays at five so ending our meetings at 4 30 seem like a segue to those for who wanted to attend yeah I think that is a good point yeah well let's we might have to think we're going to have to do the doodle poll plus another conversation yeah I but I think that you need to think about how to construct the doodle poll because it's a question also short-term and long-term you know if you're asking for people to come up with a good what is a good long-term time and then the second question is during the next month because yeah people have made commitments for the next month are there any exceptions that you just want to note and we'll just have to do the best we can but we've sort of been meeting with only four people here for a while and the five person committee that's right on the edge then I want to touch on minutes for one of the things one of us so the other thing I was going to then changing subject is that I had sent out that one set of minutes there was another set of minutes that I didn't send to you Steve and that would nothing happen with them I don't know how we're dealing with minutes to make sure that they get approved and then get posted but you as chair could approve the minutes without bringing them back to the committee so our our I think we approve the practice that I sent out the draft minutes and all of you can comment and if you don't comment they're automatically approved and then I've got to stop being a let it here I'm a let it I'm a share point let it Dave we need some help on SharePoint we will have trouble with it we don't we don't want to post on minutes to share a point Sarah knows we can but we can choose on the committee so let's ask her okay