 This is call number 10, and we're going to talk about how to not only prevent scope creep, but how to eliminate it So first off, let's just start off with what is scope creep and scope The scope of work or the SOW it defines the project requirements and deliverables The scope creep it's a term that is used when projects requirements increases Pass what was initially agreed on and it's often often due to clients request requesting additional work and changes throughout the course of the project So here are a few examples of scope creep and web design projects You know one is clients. They're changing their minds midway through the project Another one is clients. They keep asking for additional work That was not stated at the beginning of the project and that is also not in the contract or agreement Clients they're not providing content and assets on time Causing the project to delay and having updates to their sites at a later time And the reason why I include this in the scope creep right here is because this does add on to the workflow thing is When we schedule a client's project to be done on time and they don't provide us the materials They wait till later, but at a later time most likely we're already working on another project And so now this is adding extra work while we're already working on another project, which is this is scope creep It's adding just more to the work scope and clients not communicating and also again that causes delay and Then the last one clients. They keep requesting multiple revisions so Can you relate? I think we all can I think we have all been there We have felt the pain of scope creep the stress the frustration the burnout But I can tell you it can be cured and the reason why I'm saying that is because I could say to everyone that When I started off my first two years, I don't think I had one project that did not have scope creep in it Every project I dealt with some had little scope creep some had massive scope creep one of the worst cases that I've had We did a site for a non-profit for free And the site lasted over one year. It was supposed to be a really quick simple job And it just got so out of control. We could not stop it and it became a year's worth of a headache but today This doesn't happen anymore, and I'm going to let you know what I've done and I've changed in My workflow with the way we communicate with clients and the processes we have in place in Order to just stop it completely So there's a few elements that you need in order to cut out scope creep One of them is going to be open communication and in fact communication is the key to it It's the most important part of making sure that the project has clear understanding So with the communication this needs to start early on and it has to be clear It should be established as well from both sides and also with the communication You always need to be professional positive helpful, but assertive You need to stand up for your processes and agreements, but just don't do it in a rude way So real quick before we go on to more I'm going to open it up for Q&A We're going to take breaks in between the different elements and just give feedback on you know, maybe your experience with Communication with clients maybe something that you do right now or something that you think that you might should do that could help out He doesn't see the message for like five days or seven days whenever I send the message So we don't chase them anymore I used to chase them But we don't in fact what we do is in the very beginning We have it in our contract. They have three business days to respond and to give feedback and Also in ten business days that they do not respond to us. The project is automatically cancelled Payments are owed and if they want to continue They have to start a brand new agreement and I make sure I communicate this with the client before we even begin And I tell the client that in order for us to have a successful project for me to do my job You have to be available for communication Most definitely yeah, and we also have in our contract deposits are not refundable unless for some reason We cannot hold up our end of the agreement But that deposit is not refundable if you're not putting it in your contract yet Definitely put it in going from now on forward Anyone else have anything any questions any feedback. All right, cool. Let me go ahead and keep it rolling. Oh We're still in screen share See I'm still trying to figure out these zoom settings. I've been doing it for long enough I should know it but We're getting there. All right, so The second one so the first one's communication now the second key to Keeping things within the initial scope is setting expectations Under promise and over deliver and this is where we define the scope We need to be very clear and what you will be delivering The client should have a clear understanding of what will be delivered and this is really important Do not over promise trying to win the project Now when I was new and I wanted to I wanted to really impress the new potential client I really wanted the job. I was just so gung-ho like yeah, we could do that. Yeah, we could do this That's not a problem. Oh, that would be easy No problem as they were just throwing things my way and what that does is we're setting Wild expectations for the client the client then thinks from the very beginning they could do anything They want when we do that so We need to set them lower and we need to be realistic on it But here's a key under promise and over deliver I've used this in my thinking when I'm talking with the client like I'm always thinking this This is like something that's in my mind when I start to like get carried carried away and I start to Talk about all things we could do like I just remember this right here and I ring it back Because I already know that I'm going to go above and beyond for the client I'm know that I'm going to do extra Now when I say we're going to prevent eliminate scope creep that does not mean I'm not going to go above and beyond and do more than what I said I was going to do But I'm going to do that on my as my decision and not from the client's decision so but and I'm doing that too because if If you set the expectations right and then you do more than those expectations without the client asking You're going to make a super happy client But if you do things the other way around you're going to you're going to open up this this this You're just going to open it up for revisions requests all kinds of stuff and you know possibly just trying to please a client That's going to be hard to please So here are the steps that we take in defining the SOW and the SOW is a scope of work First one it comes within the discovery and consultation and this is this is where we're talking with the client Where we have our first call where we're kind of like Where we're getting all the questions out and you can do this on your first call You could also do this with a spec sheet Any way that you're gathering all the information that you're trying to figure out What needs to be done on the website like how many pages does it does there need to be? You know, is there going to be a blog on it? What kind of functionalities are going to have? Like you just want to gather all the information That you're actually going to be doing those are going to be your deliverables Now once you have all those the next step is you want to jump into the proposal and you want to list all The deliverables that you're going to give inside a proposal. You want to be detailed with your scope inside there After you send the proposal to the client you give them a chance to over to check it out Get their feedback ask them is this is this okay? Is there anything else we need to add in here? Is there anything else we need to take away? What's what's make sure we we got the list down right of what we need to do and Once you guys have agreed on that then you make the contract and in your contract you write down that exact list That you guys agreed on just as detail and that's going to be your agreement. That's what you hold on to throughout the whole project That's it. That's something you could always go back to but the whole process starts in the very beginning being able to define that scope The next thing you also want to do inside of it is you want to detail your process You want to define your process to the client and let them know how the project will flow and these are what steps You will take and the timeline for each step this should go into the proposal and should be discussed and get the client's Confirmation that they approve and then add it to the contract now what I mean by the process We want the client to know step-by-step what we're going to do We want them to know like okay like this is this is like a typical process for us We let them know that okay this first week. We're going to do We're going to do our Discovery we want to do our research and we're going to start doing our wireframes and getting the design going the second week We're going to go ahead and we're going to finish a design send it out for review and finish a revision within that week The second and third week We're going to be working on development on the fourth week. You'll be able to have a revision for For the develop site, you know and give us a feedback on the fifth week We'll complete that revision do testing and go live When you lay everything out like that and you add it to a timeline you have created the structure of the project You have put the project into a form that there is substance throughout the whole thing There's a step-by-step guide on how you're going to work this and the client is going to take you more serious as well They're going to see that this had this is something that is built in a certain way and to deviate from that way That that'll mess up the process so Detailing your work outside of the scope now first off If a client wants to ask for more work, that is totally fine Don't push back. I do I don't push back on clients when a client starts to like Want to like, you know in midway through the project when they come and they're like, you know what? We thought that we might want to add this or we might want to change this So we might want to do something if they want to do it like my reaction to them is hey, do you know? I think that's a good idea Sure, why do you want to do that? Okay, cool. No problem. We can go ahead and do that for you, but this is what it's going to take so What we do is we create a process for the client a system for them to have this extra work So from the very beginning, there is something ready for them. So we don't want to limit them It is their business and their website empathize with them, you know Like I work hard on my business just like everyone here does and if you're paying a lot of money for something That you feel is important for your business You don't want to be limited if you feel like you have something else you want to do You want to be helped with it. So our job is to help with it But have something in place and ready in the contract and in the agreement So the client they understand what defines out of the scope Work is and what the cost will be create a process for this and Just to give you an example. Here's our process that we use currently So this is for us Develop your own process figure out your own Unfortunately, you're probably going to have to go through quite a few Scope creep and really difficult projects to learn but the more you go through them You could take away from them and add that to your process and find a way to prevent it later So our process is we set an hourly rate for small changes are estimated around 10 to 15 hours underneath that so if they want something small change is like Okay, that's fine. No problem But this is outside of the scope of work from our agreement. So we're gonna have to build extra hourly on that Are you okay with that? And then, you know, they either gonna agree or they're gonna say, you know, I know What's what's just keep things as a way they are and if they come for larger changes So if it's a large change like they need a very big function coming in say they need to change like They want everything multi-language and wanted to be in four different languages all of a sudden It's already a big site. Well, that's a big change right there. We can't really do that one hourly So what we need to do at that point is we need to pause a project and we need to give an additional quote and The timeline we also need to update the timeline It needs to be updated and also additional charges will need to be paid in advance. So If the client comes and they say, you know what we just thought of something we feel is absolutely necessary We have to have this done on our site right now and it's pretty big What we do is we go ahead and halt the project. We say sure. Let's go ahead and pause the project We'll have to readjust the timeline and let me give you a quote for that and I'll come back and I'll give them a quote I'll be like, okay, we could do that, but it's gonna be like a thousand dollars if they agree on it That's fine, but you also need to pay that thousand dollars up front Anything any of those addition chunks because we don't want to be out of pocket one thing we want to be careful of is that the client doesn't owe too much money and Also found out to do this to learning the hard way By collecting the money up front Because it makes them think twice again on the second one from my experience when I did this and I try to put the money At the end like pay us at the end with the final bill It was a lot easier for them to keep adding stuff and then the bill was overwhelming for them we would get paid but It was a challenge, you know for for both of us for us and the client So we do this for us to protect us, but we're also trying to protect the client Another thing is we have to consider the timeline change in the charges since this may interfere with projects later on So if the client asks for a big change It's going to probably cost a little bit more than we normally would do because we have to figure in those extra charges When we're already on track we have a defined timeline first off It took my time to put that together and we have other projects too as well We have to manage so now we got to rearrange everything over here We have to change up the schedule We got to change up how we're running everything and that has to be considered in the extra cost as well So let's go ahead and take another break do a Q&A. I'm gonna stop the screen share so everyone can see each other and Yeah, feel free to jump in if you have any questions or any feedback or comments What's up Rajov? You've been quiet. How you doing that? Listening to your valuable information I remember it because Some certain kind of information I asked you personally When we started these calls when I was making my initial scope of work So I'm trying to match it with It's a PDF sheet and it's more useful in a detail way now So I was just going through it not being too quiet. I just had my dog around. I was playing She just came back there sleeping Yeah, it's like Your I couldn't see yours because your setup is changing Nice But one thing I want to add up here I was paying attention what you were saying that his scope of work is a place a very important role Because that's why we are having this call because and it's always nicer to put it in your contracts and proposals because It's better if it is written In somewhere, you know as a contract so that it doesn't keep some creeping on to you otherwise sometimes as we have discussed before that Customers think that it's a small change to just add their things But it takes a certain number of hours and you can't keep keeping it, you know Taking all those scope creeps in between the project and One of the scoop creeps very popular one is like when the customer disappears. I was listening to Minju I think she just said what you do in this situation and you quite answered her in the best way possible that you know You don't need to chase them because in the way you want Your things to be completed. They also want their website to be completed and not hanging But it's always better to Put it in the contract. I think and I have started doing that, you know, I mean just make a one-page contract about The content and how soon they get back to you and be ready to call up the contract if they are not able to work as per time lines I think Last week we did talk about this Timelines are important not only for you Don't be an order taker as we said in the last call But being in a partnership and when you are in the partnership, it's a both person job Not only you being the web designer or developer. So and it's always a ideal to keep those Fine line of difference between taking an order and being in a partnership. So it works out greatly like that and I Do have an example. I have been working with a short example I've been working with the client for last three months, you know and The last few days when this lockdowns and things started I wanted to take some time off for myself. This was me putting up the project She wanted to get some things done But I told her that you know, I'm gonna go on a break for like 10 days And I hope it's not a problem for you and everything and she was happy to accept it not like no You know people should realize that when they can go on a break. There is a possibility I might need some time for myself maybe to work on a different project Or maybe you just work on myself. So if you are taking the expectations right, I think shouldn't be for anyone involved in the process You know, it's all about the expectations and not taking the orders that you said the last call Cool, man, you caught it. You caught it like actually Like these calls right now. I'm trying to do certain things in order right now So they kind of flow into each other, you know for to get things started right here Because and the thing is like these right here are things I wish I knew when I started It took me it took me a couple years of You know the headaches and and going through the experiences and I really feel like sharing experiences can help someone else Avoid that and go quicker go faster on it Insights coming from you because you have been in this for a while and for anyone new I Personally want to say that whatever I have learned over these calls starting from the month of February when we started on late January. I think it's been everything I have been able to put into this is being like helped me a lot on my initial journey and you know to make my mark not only just to grab the project as People are going on platforms like fever and freelancer, but just to Get into the market by giving yourself respect as well and not making websites for 15 hours Just to get the project they will do everything for you But it's about time. So I have personally have gained a lot of experience Today, man, I was not willing to get down the call. I mean I Didn't remember today's the call. I was eating my lunch and I was like I saw your notification call in half an hour, and I was like Well, thank you, I appreciate that Rajab, but definitely don't turn down calls for clients Don't don't lose a project Don't lose your project That's nice to gain insights. I just told the potential client hours do and she was okay with it priorities, you know Cool, man, I'm really glad to hear I'm really glad to hear man Alright, does anybody have any questions before we continue with the slide? All right, cool. I'm gonna go Yeah, for sure This is not related to the project, and I'm sorry if I'm taking a lot of time in the call This is I think I'm seeing you the first time without the cap and your head Thanks man, thanks I was just saying I Get that a lot a lot of people What's that? I Man you gotta know how to do things I got fine connections Yeah, yeah, so I found one to come over Well, thank you. I appreciate it. I'm starting to get a little blushing now. I'm not used to Compliments and stuff, but all right. All right, cool. Let's go ahead with the slide Let me show the screen again All right, can you guys see okay? All right, cool. So let's go ahead to the next the next important part of Managing the project and keeping the scope creep Down to none. All right, so We've already talked about communication Setting expectations and now the next part is going to be project management And now it's up to the designer and the server's responsibility to keep the project on track as defined in the proposal Contract and agreement So the project management you have to have a defined timeline Have a defined design and development process Outline the steps you will take and to make sure you are following those steps and staying within those timelines and This is so important. This is why in the very beginning We let the client know this is our process and this is how we're going to achieve what you hired us to do and This is a time that it's going to take Now that you have that already there It's up to you to stay within this time frame because the thing that'll happen is if you let this slide if you for some reason you know, maybe get busy on another job or Something else comes in the way and you fall behind on the project and you try to play catch-up It's going to open up doors to to scope creep and once you open up those It's really hard to close and that's when the project starts to go wrong So this is a real this is an important skill to develop and it takes a little bit time like it's a skill in its own to learn project management You know, there's just ways of Organizing yourself and ways of using processes and systems and if you're new You're probably already looking at building those and refining them And I could let you know that right now. I'm still refining mine. It's a constant It's a constant process of refining processes and getting them more streamlined So those are those are the important elements right there the project management the setting expectations and most definitely the communication now what happens if the client fails to provide content images or assets or Communications on the time agreed So it's all good now We can we could write a contract and we could talk with the client and we could get them to understand from the very beginning that This is how the project is going to go. This is the scope of work. This is what we agreed on But thing is the clients are still going to push. They're still going to try They still might start to fall short on their responsibilities It's part of the nature. I mean and we can't really like Point fingers because people get busy and we can't really you know See how to say it we can't like Get upset at them when that happens we have to expect it Expecting it to happen and being prepared and that is how you're going to save yourself inside these situations Now you want to have a process in place for the clients that don't communicate well or follow the timeline on content So for content You give the client the options and the responsibility First first off making it clear of their responsibility and letting them know about other clients difficulties with content and images I let our clients know from the very beginning. I let them know that you know content and images are your responsibility We need to get them really soon and if not, you know, this could This could make your project go on really long This could prevent you from having what you hired us to do and I let them know too. I'm like I let our clients know Collecting content is one of the hardest things one of the biggest challenges we get from other clients But we have some things we could do to help. Would you like us to help out with that? So we give them options And here's a few options examples of what you could do to help out with content with your clients First option Uh, you can let them know to provide their own content and images Uh, but give them a deadline. They have a date. They have to deliver this by and again that goes back to the timeline If it isn't delivered by a set date that they will need to add it themselves at a later time Or they'll have to be build additional charges for us to add it later After the project So we could let them know they have these options. Now first off, we're using Elementor here. So I really feel Content shouldn't be the biggest headache when we're using Elementor Because it's not that difficult to add and you could always let the clients know Look at we need it by this date if you don't We'll have to have extra charges because it's going to cost us to rearrange our schedule and everything But if you want you could go ahead and add it yourself whenever you're ready Option number two We could offer content writing and photography as a service and charge it for them Now this is only if you're comfortable doing this You could always hire a freelance copywriter and photography is a little tricky It it could work out if you're working locally with someone if you're working with the business close by It might be tricky if they're remote But still you could go ahead and offer it to them or see if they could hire someone for it But definitely I would offer content writing services There's a lot of resources out there to get this done And it could be a good way for you to make extra money on it You know, like if we do hire content writing What's to say an example we hire a content writer for a project? The project is a 10 page website. The content writer wants to charge $1,000 for the 10 page website We would charge a client $1,500 or $2,000 because we need to first manage that content writer And we also need to we're also taking the risk on it So, you know, if it all goes well the content writer does their job well It's a good way to earn extra profit on the project And then option number three is This is one that works very well for us Especially using element score We prepare the site to have content added And then we just do a training session You could do one you could pay for the training session charge them for the training session And let them go and add it on their own With Elementor, I feel like it's really made To update content and images easily And I don't think that there's any reason to hold a client back from updating it themselves Now I have to say though. I feel it is a responsibility for a web designer To be able to place the content in the sections Now as a web designer, I'm not just making the website look good There's other things that I have to consider I have to consider The title tag structure for SEO So most of the time I'm already doing title tags for clients Because that's part of the design Another part of the design is content placement and content strategy So we're already placing Okay, right here. This is where we need to talk about this right here We need to put the features and we need to talk about this right here Right here, we'll put the title. We'll put a block of text and say right here We need to describe this in this way And usually what I do is I'll go ahead and put the content everywhere needs to go And just add a line or two of text in it Giving directions on what to add inside of it and then we can let the client do it on their own So this is what you need to make clear inside your contract inside your discussions You need to set terms and conditions In the contract and what will happen if the client fails to provide materials and does not communicate Acceptably So number one the communication Going back to what you know, I mentioned earlier was that clients this is in our contracts Clients have three business days to respond and give feedback And the client does not respond within 10 business days The contract is canceled and a new agreement is needed to start the work over again Also anything owed must be paid Now we got this we started doing this and found out that this is what the big agencies do Big agencies, they're not chasing people down and they don't tolerate people disappearing They just don't do it. So why should a freelancer that is new do it? So that's where we adopted this terms and conditions Number two for content images and assets We give clients a set date to provide these If not, they're responsible to either add it themselves or to pay the late fee for us to add it later And then three the timeline This is super important right here We set timelines for the projects and the deliverables and the payments also And this includes a completion date and a final payment date We have a date from the very beginning of the project We say this date this is a date that your project is going to be finished And this is also the date when the final payment needs to come through So if the client doesn't want to give content If they are too busy to focus on their website or the project right now like it was a good idea before but now They're too busy. That's totally fine It's like I don't fault the client for that. I understand that things come up And maybe they'll have to come back to it later. And that's how I treat it I let the client know like that's totally fine. If you're not ready right now But we did all of our part Everything is done on our end on there. And here's our final invoice This is a date that it's due by so we already established a final date For everything and this is why project management is so important because if you If you slip up in the project management part of the project and you start to fall late Then it just messes everything up. But if you can be on top of it, you can manage the project accordingly Then then you then you're going to be straight right here. You're going to have everything in order For you to prevent scope creep Another thing too. I'm going to go right back to that Under promise and over deliver When you are giving timelines Don't go too fast. Don't set them too slow. Give yourself a little bit of room You don't want to put yourself under too much pressure You want to make it reasonable and that's you know, you don't want to like over promise it You don't want to say like you got finished this project in two weeks when it might take you three I would give myself four give yourself a little bit of extra time and then finish early. That's the That's the over delivering part right there all right, so Main thing is be prepared have a process with terms and conditions in place This allows you to complete projects on time and even if the client doesn't follow through on their end, they're still happy We still get paid. There's a final payment date Now what about the nightmare clients, you know, what do you do with those clients that are pushing back? There are clients and and we get clients I have clients right now And they like to push every time they get a chance any time They have a chance to try to ask for more. They're doing it You know, what do you do with them? So when you get clients, I like to push the scope a lot Now if you have communicated well There is a clear understanding of expectations and everything has been detailed your proposal and contract And you have done your part as a professional and an expert Stay friendly. Stay positive. Stay professional and assertive and go back to that agreement every single time Every time the client asks for work outside of the scope Just take it back to the agreement and let them know their options and what the cost and process will be for the extra work When a client wants to push out a scope with me, I don't resist I don't push back That I used to I used to do it a lot. I used to cringe and in the inside I'm like, oh my god like my my I feel the burning in my chest, you know, like when they start asking for additional work And the reason why I was so upset was because I wasn't getting paid for it I think anybody would be upset to do more work and not get paid for it because the more work we do without getting paid You know, the less value it's like the less we're being valued and and it's just I mean, it's We're making less. It's not okay I mean, I've worked jobs with scope creepers so crazy when we looked at the hours and put it together I mean like less than a dollar an hour, you know, and that does not feel good. It's not sustainable And it's not a way to build a career or a business But if you got something in place for you to get paid for then why not do it Why limit a client? Or push back on them or resist when they want to ask for more instead you have something in place for them So when a client now comes and says we want to add something else You know, my my response is really okay. That's great. So what what should we do? Okay, no problem So we could go ahead and do that. This is what it's going to take So, you know, are you okay with that? You okay with these extra charges? Are you okay with uh with this and this new timeline? Yeah, you are fine. Go. Okay. We're going ahead and add it to our workflow and take care of it So we don't push back anymore because we know we're getting paid for Now communication is key if the project goes out of scope Most likely it was due to miscommunication unclear deliverables Lack of details in the contract and poor project management. And this is the hard truth right here We talk about nightmare clients. We talk about bad clients. We talk about all this stuff But the thing is us the designers the developers We need to take accountability. We can't always blame the clients for everything Thing is we're still learning How to manage projects correctly how to communicate the scope how not to get too excited for a project We're still learning how to talk to a client We can't put it on the clients because the clients they're hiring us because they need our help We're new it's going to happen But the longer we're doing it the more we deal with the situations The more we realize that we could prevent it in other ways and another thing too. I didn't put inside here is How many times do we take a job from a client that we knew we should enough that we saw red flags That the client says something like we really don't have that much money That they said something like I would do it myself, but I really don't have the time I just want to get it done cheaply Or they they just we just felt it wasn't the right fit But we took it anyways because we needed the work and then the project of course Go sideways and it becomes a headache So the thing is I really feel this this is my personal belief and I'm only going off of my experience That 95 percent of the time when a project went wrong. It was on me I I have to take the accountability for that. I have to learn from it and I have to grow from it Another side thing just away from the business side. This is my own Personal belief on difficult situations that every time I'm in one It's an opportunity for me to grow and so when I take that belief and I apply it Into my business and we have a difficult situation with a client If I were to take a step back and I were to look at my side What could I have done differently in this project? There's always something that I could have done to made have gone better And then I could take that to the next one So Preventing scope creep. I'm here to tell you absolutely 100 percent with full just Proof just proof of it that it is possible to complete a project within the initial scope agreement And keep the client happy it is possible to cut it out of your work Completely and to keep everything within the scope of work And that is it for the slideshow open for q&a And thank you everyone. I'm so grateful for everyone that was here for this call. I really hope it helps And now let's go ahead and open it up for open discussion questions Any kind of feedback Okay Okay, all money's all must be paid. So let's say, uh, you've already got your down payment Uh, and you've already like Okay, she should have your project broken up in milestones. First of all, and let's say the first milestone is This one and you got the second one and the third one Depending on what milestone you're at and how far they're alone that you got first off the deposit is forfeited And second whatever work that you've done is is yours. I mean you can even put it in your contract that the entire project is oh You can't do that In fact, I mean think about it when you go buy a cell phone And you sign up for a plan to get your discount on the cell phone And you cancel your plan. They're not going to say, okay, just pay us for the months that you use it They're going to say no, give us our money. You agreed to this You know, like we're a business your business. This is your responsibility So you are right you are In the right to collect what you're owed for the project now You could be fair and you could feel like, okay Like we'll just charge for whatever work that we've done or you could feel like, you know, like we need to charge this amount But definitely put in your contract I put it in ours like the final payment that payment the date That we agreed on like that date the money is owed like, I don't you know I might make an exception depending on the circumstance You know, maybe they went through something difficult, but they just flaked out. Nah, not yours Yo Don't go on you ask the question Uh, how about the contract? Is it you have default contract that the customer Choose the option or You give the customer already customized Contract, uh, wait, what do you mean? Can you ask that again? Not the contract The contract is already default I mean, uh, you already give the option because you give some option by option one two three And then they choose the option on the contract or when Before you give the contract Before you give the contract you already set the contract customized contract according to They choose before Yeah, so we choose it before I give them the options and the proposal So on the proposal where we're defining exactly what the scope is and what we're going to agree to Once we have all that agreed Then we add that into the contract Okay, so the process is discovery call the proposal And then the contract Yes, yeah Okay, thank you And uh in our next call we're going to be going through that in fact the onboarding process So next week we're going to be talking about onboarding and getting a client from Lead to contract a down payment as quickly as possible And with doing everything we've talked in this call and the last call I know i'm jumping ahead right now, but yeah, that's that's the plan for the next one Cool rush off. What's up, man? You had something? Just wanted to Add something on what came and asked the question I think It's always I mean I am yet to experiment with this, but I think it's a nice idea to Write straight up in the contract that even if you know, you Kind of don't respond or be a non-responding client You still owe the money because and if you mention in the contract you still owe all of it It will be in the mind of the customer that they cannot just disappear like this I mean at the time of asking the payment. Yes, I as a You know, I will not charge them for the things I have not done But at least I can mention them to prevent them to disappear and In the situation if it comes up that they did disappear Then at least I can say that look you owe me for the whole project as per the contract But I am on a goodwill gesture I'm just asking you for what I have done and that's where you end things, you know But you can always mention that you are liable to pay all the work of the total project if you disappear, but you can always Just ask for the work you have done, but that happens later But at least it will cut out the customer disappearing Thinking in mind that he might have to pay and he will not get anything out of it. So, you know like that True if I if I knew I was going to have to pay regardless I'm going to want to make sure I follow through with it You know, but if I knew like a like, you know, like order like we order on lazada here You know we buy stuff and sometimes I'll get cash on delivery because I know I could just say no If I don't want it, but you know, if I purchase it with my card There's no refund, you know, like you got to get it. So I make sure it's like really what I want I just do want to point out something though Don't feel bad for charging the client for the full project Don't feel bad for it because the thing is if they disappear or if they cancel it They're actually costing you more money Because at time you're working on the project, you could have been working on another lead You could have been working for someone else You know, there's another way in your business that that will suffer That will you that you'll lose out on it. So really the money is owed for a reason what you just said as you know, I have a project with my friend who is a She has a one company on restaurant income the restaurant they kind of shut down And they knew they were gonna shut down because of their pay rent was like rising up. So they wanted to shut down But they are when they we decided Design, they didn't tell me They're gonna shut down their their one of business. So we made the design for restaurant and coffee And then now they tell me that oh we shut down the restaurant and then like I asked them like when did you know about it? Like how for a year ago and then like when did you why you didn't tell me up when we designed it and then they said like oh because I don't know and then like yeah, it could change design only for the coffee Like coffee specialty my specialty coffee Website buffet something like that That is fairly frustrating to ask about like Anymore because even they knew they're going to shut down their one of their business and then but they just didn't tell me and they like Ever like or energy to put down everything with the organic food restaurant with the specialty coffee Making together in the one website And it's one part. It's gone. Actually, which is making me easy to make a website true because I can't focus And anyway, just like in this case I I feel like I have to charge about Like what I've spent time to like you know brainstorm me and designing about this and I actually made like two page It's like six page website. I made already two Like front page and the middle page and then but like I feel like this is a friend So I know that they don't have money enough. That's why they close another, you know, like restaurant I kind of feel like what I what I need to do and then I also The contract about like if I if you want me to do extra work. I need you need to pay the extra charge per hour and then I don't know it's kind of a sympathy going on and then like It's a friend and then I also went I lose my time I had to be designing the website as well. That's another thing was like I didn't tell me saying You're a half way or go and then like that happened and then Yeah, I just frustrated very And it's time started kind of letting you Did they uh Did they tell you that they wanted the website to have both the restaurant and coffee side in the beginning? Did they tell you specifically like this is what we want We want one side to focus on the restaurant. We want one side to focus on this One side of it or make it too separate website and they said no no no we're going to put it together because we were like the same You know like they're a couple and you're going to the same company And then like we have to think about how to make organic restaurant and the specialty coffee put it together in the website and then that was Among them like five weeks ago and then It closed there were there a restaurant two weeks ago I was potato dying It's a tough one though too right now. I mean I have to admit I have to admit like you know like You know like I I know like I might sound like I'm firm on scope and stuff like that, but I'm really I stay flexible too and I try to be understanding You know, I I do up to a point. I mean I I still have my own business. You have your own business You have your own rent and livelihood and everything, you know, so you can't keep working for free You know, but I mean we are like our clients right now are going through a bit of a crisis. We have to take care of them, but What what could have you tried maybe setting an end point to the project like Like the fun because it sounds like the project already went haywire. It sounds it's already it's already messed up It's already like a mess Maybe to help you out to get it back on track is To create the process and not like not much. It's like what's the end point we finish this this and this And before working get the client to agree on that and then maybe ask them like You know ask them like we could do this this and this are you okay with this to finish it? And then anything else we could do we could we could talk about you know, what it will take extra But you know, I have to move on as well. I have other work to do They their decoration of the cafe they just made at least not finished So also they are not opening because of the restriction of talent that we cannot take access So it's also difficult to find the timeline. Like it's also like relying the government situation so I will see I'm with them like in few weeks and then the restriction on probably finishing like middle of May or something that most of the The place going to open and they're like people can do no more thing and they can take a picture with the people And yeah, but yeah, I think I have to do something and then I I also feel like very sorry for their just What happened in Thailand in the business itself that like they don't have a client that's why they have to close and they cannot pay for the rent of the restaurant And yeah, but just it was very frustrating for me like why you didn't tell me like Tell me you're going to Yeah, it could be changed and then another thing I had another client Who doesn't have any idea of SEO or the good design eyes for Pictures so they gave me shake pictures to put it on my left side This is not what I want to do and but this is not what I want to put on the front page But that's only they gave me what would you do? How would you just say that like your your your picture shit and you'd have to take picture with the Also Some people doesn't know what it's all about SEO and how it back to your their business only sell and trying to like, you know Do the basic SEO at least like Google search console and like And a meta text and those things but some of people doesn't know what it is And I always tell I always like trying to educate them what it is and then but they still give me the shit About their like website front page And what would you do in this kind of case? Do you tell them the truth like your picture shit like in a kind way? I Tell them like yeah, I tell them just honestly well First off I find out about that before the job Like I find out, you know, like what kind of images are you going to use like, you know, like I want to know are you guys having a photographer? Are you doing an in-house or are you just doing it with you know an old android phone? And how are you how are you taking your pictures? And uh, then I also give them requirements for pictures for images as well Like the sizes I want full ones. We'll do the compressing and image optimization And if they can't provide images, that's fine. I'll just put in fillers I'll even put in their bad images. Look at not everything is not every project you do is going to be a portfolio piece And you can't treat it like that. That was one of my mistakes. I did in the beginning I was designing for myself And when I did that I took on too much My ego got in the way when I was doing that and then it caused frustration. It's not my site. I could give my advice I could put in their shit pictures and just tell them advise them You're going to do a whole lot better if you you know invest in proper photography Or we could even put other filler images right now, you know to help out with that Here's the crazy thing sometimes shit pictures performs well I Don't know some bad sites some bad websites bad designs get leads It just works like that. It's crazy, you know and for the seo part Uh Like what do you mean? Do you mean like for like the title tag like the tag line of the website like that? title tag and the tag lines or like meta tags and then uh With the right team right just depends on the people and then but they like also suggesting just like Like feels like making the text like pushing the people to do something on my website Right, you have to present your website more likely smoothly or even you're selling the stuff like you can just say nicely on a website or like What they what they like write down The contents like say like bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. And then like I don't want to put those kind of texts on the website And then I and also it doesn't match with the design And also it doesn't really appealing to the people like who visit your website and then also You know the meta tag is only short one two or three sentences. You can see on the uh Google search and then that's really important to like Track attract the client's eyes, but they don't understand how How much you have to think about to the meta to put the meta tag to just like grab one attention from the You know like searchers and then Yeah, and if they just gave me like shit code and like I don't want to put this on the Their side if they want that on there, it's okay We do offer sco opposite like a sco setup service If they want to pay if they want to pay us for the setup service and we already have it ready We have a price for it. We give them the option to set a proposal They want to go for it. We'll write the tagline. We'll write the meta We'll find the keywords. We'll do the you know, we'll set up We use sco press And I'll set that up for them. But if they don't pay for it, it's you know, it's up to them We let them know they need it and when they're ready for it to invest in it, you know, they can't You know, like you're you're going to all you could do is try to explain it to them But the more you go on you're going to start to find more quality clients that will look and that will be ready I know at first at first like this is me I I attracted a lot of clients that they they didn't understand They weren't ready to listen and no matter what I said to them They they just did whatever they wanted to do, you know, and And it it was a good learning experience, you know It taught me it was all part of the process a learning But then you will the more quality clients will come along and they'll see the value because if you already have that inside yourself Where your main goals that help them succeed where it's frustrating you that They won't do what they need to do and you know, this is what they need to succeed Hold on to that because the clients will come and they'll see that value and you'll really be able to help them They're coming they're coming Hey, Lauren, what's up? It's all good But we have a client who's just been a nightmare already and they haven't even signed the contracts And you just have that gut feeling of like, oh man, this is like we haven't even been paid yet This is not going to go well. What is your experience on kind of bowing out and saving face and Because we have already sent the contracts. We have not sent the deposit But we have sent like hey, let's get started and it's been just Bad already, you know like in another facebook group. I mean somebody asked that question right there About that like how to say no and the power that you feel when you say no What helps me right now is I've taken so many of those projects I should have said no and gone through so many stressful situations and pain that I remember it And when I'm getting ready to go for it and like part of me wants the money part of me feels like But it's money, you know, it's good amount I start to look forward to the frustration the stress and ultimately every single time I take one on I end up losing because it takes it deviates me from my own business It'll take me months away from my and spending months away from building on our business and our brand Is is uh, it's really impactful in our growth So if you've already gone like yeah, sure. Okay, sure and then now it's like, you know Like please don't sign Oh, I don't know. I mean you could always say You could always I mean, I don't want to say lie, you know, be honest, but you could just be honest Just say look it. We're really excited about it. But you know as we're preparing for the project We just don't think this is going to be a right fit and I feel like you would be better off With someone else. Let us refer you to somebody And then refer him to us Communication in the beginning and they had to hire a California based company And I'm not California based So there might be a chance I can use that as an excuse but I was just curious like If you've gone too far, how have you stepped out so that other people could maybe I've done it once. I've done it once. I've done it once And I don't know if it was the right thing when I did it actually and uh And uh, I think I talked to you also when I was going through it It was when we took on a job with the client. He had too small the budget We were really slow at the time. I wanted something new but something told me I should not take on this job That he kept asking for more and more stuff. I saw it as becoming a problem But yet we went forth with it and we got into week one Finish the design send him the design and then he came back and just changed everything and he just changed it I was like, oh, this is going to be a headache. You know what? I don't want this job I'm gonna give him all this money back and I did that I gave him all this money back And I told him straight up like I just don't think this is going to work out Now, I don't know if what I did was right And I actually felt bad about it because I have this thing of integrity and I want to make sure that I keep my side of the street clean So I ended up reaching out to him after a few months after that And I told him truthfully. I said look it I went and saw your old website is up and his old website is horrible. It's not responsive anything You know, it's one of those ones that fits on the page. That's that big with all the content squished up And I told him I'm like, you know what? I want to make this right. Let me at least rebuild what you have in your site at no cost And I I think it was stupid I ended up charging him 500 bucks on top of like a deposit and stuff you know, but uh I don't know. I just wanted to keep my side of the street clean. I wanted to make sure I don't do anything wrong uh, but then I have as I'm doing this this new one like it's coming up again Like I remember why I said no and it just makes me it just Makes me be more cautious on the jobs I take going forward because I don't want to go through that again So but but you haven't started yet though So if you haven't started jay, you haven't taken their money yet Um, you still got I think you can still bow out without you know, without doing anything unethical Yeah, I think so. I think it's just a little bit of that lingering like COVID-19 is going on should I take everything that comes even though my gut like wants to vomit Yes, I thought of this project. So it's a little like I think that's why I'm saying sure sure But now I don't know if the money's worth it. Like you said, it could be a loss of money as well You could trust your grand life, that's really like the keeping up to freedom. So I think it's true. It's a good point. All right, I find my way out. Thank you And right now with COVID-19 going on it's getting busy for web design It is about to get really busy out there Like I've never gotten to so many leads. It's like I'm getting Leads almost on a daily basis. It's crazy. Like it is about to get busy because I really feel like Uh The value of online business taking the business online is going to go up I really I just feel that way like because it is important. We already knew it Like us as designers and developers, we know the value of having a properly done website clients don't always know that value, but I think that Because of the situation that that That that uh, awareness is about to come up Cool. Any uh questions? All right guys. Well, it's It's been real I hope this helped Again, you don't have to do scope creep. Trust me. You can prevent it. You could eliminate it And you could also make sure you're getting paid for what you're supposed to get paid for and being treated right With value. I hope this helps out Next week we are going to do we're going to continue kind of the flow in the direction We're going and we're going to talk about onboarding and about the onboarding process and putting a process into place Because I mean it's like we talk about putting proposals. We talk about doing proposals We talk about contracts But how to put that all in a process to streamline it in order to onboard a client Get all that information out and quickly get them from lead to deposit And then get the project going For me as uh starting your business as a as um agency How is there any how do you have any recommendation to get How can my proposal template contract can play after my death then we just customize the content How to get a proposal template Oh, I use a template that we use here like it's already built out And so in the template is we just change information inside of it online Uh, there's one that's paid. That's really good. It's with the future. I could go ahead and send the link to you Or I could put it in the group Also, I'm polishing up our proposals. I plan on adding our proposals to uh the bbe resource page So I'm going to try to get those up there soon. That's going to be the next Uh thing that I put up is going to be a template for it for the proposals that others can use as well So I'll do that as quickly as possible. But for the time being Go through go through a bunch of them. I mean you could you could search and gather a bunch of them, man There's one that's really good. It's a paid one It's like 60 dollars. It's so worth it because they it goes more into learning about proposals Okay Last last last Do you send online proposal or Send the physical proposal to sign Oh, no online. Yeah Yeah, we do a pdf and we only have them send the contract. They don't have to send the proposal So we just send a pdf over. Yeah Yeah, cool All right guys, it was this is awesome I'm really glad that everyone was here and I look forward to seeing everyone next week Again, I'm so bad with goodbyes All right Thank you. All right. Bye everyone