 I Just had to play this again, I'm gonna force everyone to watch it cuz it's real funny before I started That shit was funny had to play it Yeah, that's an F.E. Black Beauty with custom pickups and it sounds better. So oh yeah, I need to bring a not so. Let's see. What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? Did you get to hear the, I just want to fit in song again? I did. I did. Yeah. Yeah. I was one of the people you forced to watch it. Yeah. Yeah, I know. It's really good. Yeah. I mean, you've always been fascinated by male bonding rituals. I have. I have. I have. I wish I had more hands. That's all. I mean it, you know, make friends that way. Make better friends. Oh, dammit. Let's see. We're going to get my, trying to get my little skunky guy on. Oh, look at that. Yeah. There he goes. All right. Here we are. Here we are. Okay. Let's see. What are we going to start off with? What do we usually start off with? I mean, we usually start off maybe with like a general overview of like what we're actually going to chat about, I suppose. Okay. You know? So we thought today we would talk about like different parts of growing and flower and like what it means for you. So we'll try to, there'll be times where maybe we'll get a little technical, but we'll try to make it topical and bring it back to stuff that, because there's a lot of different ways of growing. There's a lot of different ways of, you know, there's a lot of methods, right? Yeah. And if there's anything in weed that leads people to religion, it's the way that I grow is the best way. Yeah. And I have the best pot because of this method, right? And so it gets really hard to debate any part about it because there's so much, there's so much pride, I guess. Yeah. I mean, it's like art, you know? They've got ego with their art and if someone tells you that, you know, it could be done a little bit better at first, something, you know? So yeah, definitely. And, you know, there's aspects of two of like, you know, one size fits all in a sense of depending on what your goals are, and we'll talk about, we'll break it down into chunks, whether you're breeding or whether you're growing for pure heads or whether you're trying to grow commercially on a bit larger of a scale, like there's different pros and cons to your approach. They're not all the same. So it's really hard to be like, oh, I just need to learn this one thing. And this method, if I perfect it, will consistently do the best for me no matter what I'm trying to do. Yep. And that's just not the case, you know? No. No. It's just really not the case, you know? And then maybe we could talk a little bit about like what those methods do to the flower. Sure. And some misnomers maybe about how everybody thinks that like nutrition is like the only thing really that messes with it, but there's temperature and there's spectrum and there's how you treat it afterwards and all that that kind of goes into it. Yeah. You know? And so as a result of that, there's a lot of people trying a lot of good ways to grow cannabis that they're not putting all the pieces together. Yeah. You know, one of the most common questions I get in relation to nutrients and feed is when people email me about a specific strain, they'll ask like, hey, how do I feed it? What's it like? And I try to explain to them the difference between like, you know, it depends. It all depends. I don't even know what expression, you know, you're going for. I don't know what expression the plant's going to get in the first place in your environment. So it's really hard to tell people how you're going to feed because it's not just strain dependent. It's individual plant and individual roots dependent. I think it'd be a good way to illustrate it. It matters. It's like trying to be like, well, this, if you just do this, like you can pick up any woman you want. Yeah. You know, this, this, this dating method is just 100% effective. Yeah. And doesn't take the other human being into account, you know? And I also thought like, this is, this is a little esoteric, but there's like a, there's this really cool book by this, he writes in the New York Times or whatever and his name is Michael Pallon and it's called The Botany of Desire. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great book and documentary. And it's a, it's a, you know, it's like a plant's eye view from the world. So I thought maybe two, like we rarely talk about like what cannabis or hemp or whatever wants, like what it's trying to do and what it's going for. Because in order for us to get what we want, right, we have to play with what it's doing to convince it to give us what we're after. Yeah. What it wants isn't necessarily what our end product of smoking it is. No. And I mean, in some cases, you know, like, I mean, basically at its most basic level, the plant wants to mate, create seed, continue the progeny of itself. It has zero interest in creating good smoke for us. Yeah. That's not a goal. Seedless is failure genetically to it. Yeah. And so there's a bunch of stuff that plays into that, you know? We just thought that, you know, like we, you know, we listen to a lot of these things and we hear a lot of discussions and mostly what I see is a bunch of people, no offense, I'm not trying to piss anybody off, but like patting themselves on the back for what method they've chose. Yeah. And that's the superior method and people aren't really interested in hearing different opinions about things too much. Yeah. You know, there's, yeah. So it's very like, it's very clickish. It is very clickish. Whether you're a salt farmer, or you use bottles, you know? I mean, right there, like bottle people, you know, that's kind of faux pas right now, organics away, you know? Not only organics, but no bottles organic. Yes. No bottles. No bottles. KNF, living soil, you know, full salts, synganic, you know, there's all the, I even, you know, all these different things play into it. And then like, and I, you know, I mean, I think that there's, I think that there's a lot of misunderstanding that goes into all of it. Yeah. Right. And so you hear all these, there's all these talks. I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm some, you know, there's other more intelligent people that can talk about like the pure nutrition aspect of it. I can give a general overview that will probably work, but mostly what we're talking about is like end results and how to manipulate your plants to get what you want. Yeah. Right. And there's different goals. And it's not all the same. Yeah. So like, like I've talked about this a lot in the past, choosing for selection. A lot of, when I choose a plant for selection or for keepers, I'm choosing a plant for keepers for breeding, you know, whereas someone, someone else's keeper may not be that because they're looking for an immediate production plant that has all the traits they want right there. I want something that's going to have the traits that it passes down as opposed to what it's showing up in itself, you know. Yeah. Neville and some of the old timers used to talk about that, that sometimes the best breeders were not the plant that they would put into production from that same line. Oh yeah. Yeah. Very different things. There could be, they could be the same and they could also just end up being different. Yeah. We end up breeding with production plants because those are what survived. Yeah. For the most part, you know, trying to, you know, it's not like there's a bunch of, even amongst traders and collectors like ourselves, we're not, you're not trading old males. Yeah. Right? No. No, but you're not getting like, oh, that's the 98th male of this and this, you know? No. No, that doesn't, you're lucky if, you're lucky if like, you know, you get a female from that long ago. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't think I've ever heard of anybody keeping old males like that from the Dutch days. No. I mean, some of you, some of them do, but they're certainly never going to trade them for you. They view them as like the bedrock of their company. Oh, so much G13 Hayes male. That's one, that's one that did make it out now that I think about it. It's not out. I don't know if it's still around. Yeah. But yeah, rare. Yeah. Very rare. Rare. You know? I could think of one example. Now with, with STS and stuff like that, it's even become more rare because they've eliminated the male in a lot of cases. Yeah. So, I don't know, maybe we could give it, we could start because it is a little rambly or whatever, but we could, we could start maybe with like, what's your goal? So, like I was going to break it down basically into like three, like big chunks, right? There's like growing for you, which is basically trying to make it as heady as possible and usually relatively small scale. Then there's growing for seed. And then there's growing at a larger scale for production. And there's various, obvious, there's various grades and levels of that. And that's a lot of what people are faced with today in terms of like how, how do you scale up headies? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's been a major, major problem for people. Yeah. And people are realizing that like, oh, like, you know, this, this method that I've done for 20 years, it's worked great. My two greenhouses. Yeah. Well, now I've got six, 10,000 square foot licenses and my weed's not as nice. Yeah. And I think a lot of people convinced themselves at the beginning of REC that they were totally going to be able to scale up, you know, like it shouldn't be hard, you know, right? And it just didn't work out that way. And not only, not only from a difficulty standpoint, but also certain things that might be perfectly economically feasible at a certain scale, you know, inputs that you might be using or whatever might not scale up. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And the amount of liquid you're going to go through and the amount of this and the amount of that and the amount of labor it might entail. Yeah. You know, and so, and so all those things, all those things play into it, right? So maybe we'll just start real general. And we'll talk about like the difference between like growing good weed and growing for seed. Okay. Right? So, you know, if you're growing, if you're growing, if you're trying to grow for good weed these days, that means seedless. So that means you're going to trick the plant into constantly going, waiting for pollen that never comes. Yes. Right? And so what you're trying to do is you're trying to give it, you know, enough nitrogen enough, veg or boost or whatever and to get it to a certain size, get it to flower set and then grow good flower, harvest it, smoke it. That's your gig. Yeah. Right? And so that requires a certain kind of nutrition, right? Where if you're growing from seed, you're planning on pollinating it, right? And then since it's going to be making babies like seeds inside itself, you'll probably give it a lot more nitrogen and you'll give it a lot more of a mix that is very different than if you'd smoke it. Yeah. I tend to feed heavy nitrogen during flower for seeds. I feed it like tomatoes. A very tomato regimen is great for seeds, keeping them healthy and viable. But I flip out like if people feed since a mill like that because it just, to me, it just ruins it, you know, when you just flood it with nitrogen for the most part. I mean, and so maybe there's an aspect that people should realize here. So one of the interesting things is there's this, I'll give a plug, there's this company called Canna, okay, which is a Dutch company that designed nutrition for cannabis, right? And the reason why they're special is that for a super long time when people were developing nutrition, they couldn't test it on cannabis because it was illegal. But Canna could. So Canna, you know, they, they were able actually to grow different plants, you know, cannabis different ways and then test how the plant actually up took nutrient, right? So they had this method of like, give it just enough and nothing more. Yeah. Right. Where like, I would say American companies are more supersize me like, we'll sell the customer way more than they need. Like advanced the 32 product fucking sweet. Yeah. Or, you know, general hydroponic. You know, I just mean like the usage rates. It's like go heavy, put a bunch in there, right? And so what happens with, you know, from a plant's perspective, right? You know, plants will sit there and what they want to do is they have no idea that there's like humans taking care of them really, right? So they want to soak up as much food as they possibly can within themselves. So that when the food starts to run low, they have enough left inside themselves to like carry on the process of making seed. Yes. Right. So like back in the day, you see a lot of people that are like, oh, I want to pack on weight on my flower, right? And they would like give boosters or something heavy at the end. Yeah. And then you just, you end up with unused nutrient in your stuff. And what cannot figure it out is that if you gave it at the, at the like early mid part of flower, say like week three on a 10 week strain, right? Then the plant would have the next month to use up that excess. Yeah. And grow all that flower and boost itself. And then it would still be running out, running low towards the end. Yeah. Because what you want is since you're going to trick the plant and you're never going to seed it, you don't want a bunch of that excess stored inside the plant itself. No. In general. No. Right. And so that's what happens sometimes when people like quote unquote, pump it or they ride a high EC or they have a lot of organic nutrition that's like their soil's hot. The plant just soaks up a bunch and it, and it's got a bunch in there because it's trying to make sure when it runs out, it has enough to make seed. Yeah. It doesn't know you're going to make seedless. Yeah. So you have to like plan your nutrition around what you're trying to do. Yeah. If the plant knew that it was going to be seedless, it just, it would probably not put so much energy into making the little hairs, you know? Oh yeah. And I mean, you know, like our buddy, you know, CSI who grows in beds, in his rooms that he makes seed, I mean, he puts enough nutrition in there for six or seven months. Yeah. He mostly feeds water because he's not concerned and it's really high nitrogen. It's not something he would ever do if he was growing for a flower for market. Yeah. It's like a completely different mix and that's why it's so bunk. You know, when he talks about like when it fails, people act like, oh, well, then you just got a bunch of good, heady weed. Yeah. No. And he's like, no, I got a bunch of overly nitrogened, you know, we're not going to burn the right way. Like it's not going to come out heads because it was, it was a mixed for seeds for seed creation. Yeah. You know, and for, to grow heads, you kind of want to give the plan everything that it needs and then ideally let it use up its excess before you're done. Yeah. So it's also why you doesn't show a lot of pictures of the actual seed process making because it's not pretty like to feed it correctly to, to, to have it making healthy seeds. It's not a visually appealing plant, you know, some people and the majority of people wouldn't understand that part. They don't even. It's doing a great job of making thick, healthy, tiger striped seeds that are going to be good for customers, but it's not going to look pretty where if he has different rooms, for instance, that he's growing, he's using to do like seed pops and experiments that he's going to like phenohunt and see what they are. Those soil beds will be mixed at a different ratio. Yeah. You know, it'll be a lot less nitrogen. You know, it'll be a lot more scaled for flower. Yeah. You know, and then, you know, there's, and then there's an, there's, there's other aspects too where it's like plants really are like people in the sense that, you know, you've got your friends that can eat whatever they want. And like, you know, and they stay thin as a rail and you got your plants that like look at a potato chip and get 10, gain 10 pounds. Plants do that same thing. They eat at different rates. Yeah. They have different feeding requirements. They have different root systems. They drink different. And so what becomes, what becomes hard is like, you know, I've always thought when I was doing bigger shit that you're trying to put plants that drink the same and eat the same in the same area. Yeah. Right? Because I've had situations where I'm burning one plant or one line and the other line wants more food. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Any time I have purple in the room, that's going on. Yeah. Or, or, you know, you're trying to grow something that drinks a lot and really fast versus something that like drinks slower like Kush and you don't need to water that thing as much. So you end up over watering it to compensate, you know, and that's what makes like that's honestly like people dish monocropping, but that's why a lot of people like to monocropp. Yeah. Because you can dial in your nutrient regimen or how you're feeding your plant or your style. Right? Yeah. To fit that crop. Like we have a good buddy Pip, a souvenir seed co or whatever. And he talks about, you know, he was at our party one year. Remember, he was, he was blown away by how good that diesel was. Yeah. And he said, you know, it was, you know, the cut was from him at the time. And you know, he was used to putting one or two in the corner. And he couldn't feed it the way he'd feed a whole room of sour. Yeah. So it would come out nice, but not perfect. Yeah. You know, because it's one of those things where it had different requirements than the rest of the stuff he was doing. Yeah. So it wouldn't come out as nice. Yeah. Sour is also one of those where it's like, fucking, you miss it. You miss it. Yeah. It's very easy to miss. You know, it's finicky. And so, you know, there's an aspect to that where people think that there's a one size fits all. There's a one method they can take, they can take the method they know and apply it to anything. I mean, you start to see, there's these like A5 and C5 and the cough and PIF and Cuban black haze are starting to gain in popularity or even GMO, right? Yeah. So you're going to have a plant that takes 12 to 15 weeks. You're going to have to feed it differently than a plant that takes 8 to 10. Yep. You're going, you're going to have to, you're going to have to veg it for longer. You're going to have to give it a different mix. And just so people know, it's not like the mix dictates what happens to the plant. The plant's trying to feed on what it wants. Yeah. And it's either there or it's not. And I think that's a misconception. Like, maybe we could talk about that for a second. Like, the plant absorbs salts. Yes. That's what it absorbs, right? So if you're feeding GH or, you know, I don't know, you know, Eagle or 2020 or, you know, or any kind of salt or liquid chem nutrition, you're giving it like the 17 major and macro elements like, in like an IV basically, right? But if you, if you're fully organic, you're still feeding it those same salts. It's just they're in longer chains. So you have to get various bacteria and fungi and stuff to break it down. Make it available, right? And so like people don't get that. They're like, oh, you know, the plant, and if you break it, if you took a perfectly derived organic salt and a salt that GH you're cutting edge or somebody throws in their mix, you couldn't tell the difference under a microscope. Yeah, I don't even know. Like, even if you were a soil scientist, right? No, that doesn't mean they're the same thing. That's not that's not true. So it's like because like basically, like, you know, chem is like, you know, our understanding of what the plant needs. Organic is more like, if you get it perfect, it gives the plant everything that it needs. And then there's a bunch of like relationships with the with the soil itself that like it likes and we don't really understand. You know, I have a question. I have a question for you. So I am not worldly or knowledgeable about organic feeding. I've always been like a house and garden, can a type dude bottles. Sure. And that's just what I rocked with, you know. So when you want to force the plant to drink what you want it when you're doing organics, do you just do something to lower the pH or raise the pH to know you have to basically when you're doing organics, you was, I mean, there's different approaches. Like there's bottles like, for instance, like to use the same thing, canna bio canna, if you buy organic bottles, you're essentially buying things where like the company has taken the time to sort of like cook it or ferment it or brew it or whatever method. Yeah. And those salts are more available than just adding raw amendments to the earth. Okay. Yeah. So like, for instance, we, you know, if you were, if you're going to be that kind of guy where you're going to get soil and you want to amend it, a lot of times you would get it all you want to do is raw amendments. You'd probably get it, add your raw amendments and let it cook for a month or two before you'd even ever use it. Yeah. You know, um, and then because what you're trying to do is you're trying to like get all those, all that bacteria and fungi and everything time to break down the organic food in there and make it available. Right. Cause that's the issue, right? So the big difference is like when you feed salt, you can guarantee that the plant, the availability is there. Yeah. If the temperature is right and the pH is right and the mix is right in your salt, it's going to get all that food in organics and hoping that food is there. But it has to be at a certain P8 like a certain pH is nitrogen can't be carried, right? Certain P at certain pH chem or organic, the plant has to have that pH to absorb it through its roots. Yeah. And certain ones like nitrogen is more available at certain pH and yeah, there's, there's a range, there's like a chart and that's kind of why people, um, they give you that range for cannabis. Yeah. Is because, you know, you get five and a half versus 5.8 or something. Yeah. There's going to be certain things that are more available than in the mid sixes and vice versa. Right. And it's usually, uh, you start out lower and up higher, right? Yeah. I mean, if you want to do it that way. So, you know, it's, it's, it's one of those things where like if you have a well buffered organic soil, it's probably something you don't have to think about. Okay. If, you know, uh, but it also depends like if you've got a great soil, but your water is pH nine coming out because it's well water, you might need to treat your water to not make the life of the microbial life in your soil harder. Okay. Right. But yeah. So there's an aspect to it where it's like, you know, and I don't think most people, most people look at it as where it's like salts or sort of like a cheat code. You know, where organics is like the pure way to go. Right. And I don't, well, I mean, there's an aspect to that. I, I do think it's true, but I also think that there's some organics that's dirtier than salt. You know, people think that like salt is made in some kind of crazy lab when really it's like mind minerals that are refined to a certain purity. Uh huh. And when you're talking hydroponic purity, that's like one step below like pharmaceutical grade. So it's really, really clean and it's designed to run through air, aerogets, sprayers, drippers, all kinds of shit, not clock for the most part. Yeah. You know, um, and all, and all that. And so, you know, it's, it's low and heavy metals, uh, the good ones, um, you know, and that's another thing too is like when, when people, people started, uh, you know, and then you go organic, right? And so organic is a label, but I don't think most people get that a lot of the organic stuff that you get is byproducts from other industries. I didn't know that. You didn't know that? I don't think I know. If you get, I'll give you a perfect example. Right. If you get bone meal or blood meal. Yeah. Okay. That's organic by law, but it comes from major slaughterhouses. Well, that makes sense. The cows aren't organic. Yeah. They weren't fed organic food. You could be getting McDonald's hamburger cows. Yeah. And your bone and blood burger, Wendy's, right? Think about like the biggest meat buyers and producers and that's all mixed together. And it's all, it's all the same. And there's not actually a way to differentiate unless you're really lucky and you know an organic farm, but it's all certified organic. Right. Is one better than the other though? Like realistically, so bone meal is ground up bones from cows, right? Okay. Blood meal is the juice and the sluice that comes off the slaughterhouse floor. And they collect it and like powderize it. Delicious, right? Feather meal is the same shit. It's a byproduct from the poultry industry. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. That's better sense. Okay. You know, turkey, chickens, you know, all the parts that they can't sell you. Yeah. Ground up and turned into fertilizer. Okay. Right. So you have an aspect where it's like, oh, I'm fully organic. And then you end up like in the, I use bone meal and blood meal and feather meal and this and that. And you're like, holy fuck, you know, yeah, because it's, it's, it's legally organic. It's got the legal label. Yeah. By law, but it doesn't come from organic animals. Blood meal smells like girls periods. It's gross. Yeah, it is. And you know, the issue, the issue used to become to where it's like, you know, when we used to be gorilla and stuff like that or whatever, when I first got to California, you use blood meal or something like that. And all of a sudden you get it wet and the, the, the vulture's smelling. Yeah. And they start slips out and they start circling or the dogs want to get into it or a bear comes and wants to rip your shit up because it's not, you'd go put a bunch of awesome fish emulsion in your shit and then you get a black bear who wants that, who thinks that there's fish and starts digging for it, you know, and then you're, and then you're fucked, you know. And so there's an aspect where it's like people think there's a free lunch and it's like it takes, even if you're using that stuff, it takes it a while for it to break down. Some of it's available quick, some of it not so much. And like fish emulsion and all that, that's all from the, you know, the seafood industry. Yeah. It's all the, it's all the brood bits of the nasty parts that they can't sell you. Some of the, some people like build a soil or whatever, you know, like some people have stopped using bone meal because of the issues with cows and mad cow and just all the chem. Yeah. And they're selling you fish bone meal. Okay. Because, you know, because it's, it's, it's still bones and still calcium and all that, but it comes from the seafood industry because it's not quite as toxic. Yeah. Even though it's organic. So you could have an organic style where you could pick all these inputs where I would rather use canner cutting edge. Yeah. I would think it would, it would be cleaner to me. Yeah. You know, even stuff that's clean like backwondo or seabird guano, right? Or they don't, they're not, there's obviously not like factory backwondo or factory seabird. Yeah. You know, you are destroying habitat to get it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. For bats, they're going into caves and for seabirds, they're going to a lot of habitat and they're scraping the shit off it literally to send it to you. Yeah. And you know, do you know why that shit comes from like Indonesia and Peru and all that, not America? I don't know. Because America has OSHA and you can't send a 10 year old boy with a bucket and a shovel into a cave. That's that's a good point. I have watched inflected water. I'm dead serious. But this shit's fucked up. They do it where it's super cheap and there's not a bunch of labor law and they'll do it industrial style and they'll have a bunch of people with buckets and they'll have like a bunch of bulldozers and they'll be fucking up some huge, we have plenty of bats in America. Yeah. Yeah. It's just cheaper to get it out of Peru or Indonesia and ship it because they don't have to obey labor laws. Yeah. And kids are great workers. They're great. Yeah, you know, and there's not child labor in there. So a kid with a bucket, you know. And so it's good. I'm not, I believe me, I've used tons of backwondo and seabird guano and stuff. So I'm not dissing you. I'm just saying that that's the reality of getting it. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great nutrient. I love plants from I love brewing teas with it and stuff like that. It's like it's good stuff. But it's not exactly harvested environmentally soundly and what happens to the people isn't the greatest thing. I remember the first time I got sent home with tea from the hydroponic store. My very first trip got sent home with compost tea. And I really sat there wondering if I was supposed to drink this like if it was some hippie brew like that I was supposed to drink. I didn't understand it was for the plants. That's all my embarrassing stories. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, back, you know, now we are really in a golden age of teas and compost inputs and availability. I'll say that like, I mean, I used to work in the hydro industry. And so I got to know how they sourced a bunch of amendments. Yeah. What the differences in quality were and why certain companies were cleaner and better. Yeah. Versus other ones that were using cheap inputs and covering it up. Yeah. Right. And now you have a situation that goes on and it's really a bummer, but it's like there's a lot of stuff that's from the ocean that we used to consider super heavy. Right. But now that they test for heavy metals, it's dangerous. Yeah. Because it's got too much lead or too much arsenic or too much cadmium or whatever in it. Yeah. You know, so you could be you could be like, oh, I'm using fish emotion and this and that. And I've got all this amazing stuff and I even have a hook and you're putting all this stuff in there and then you're weed test high for heavy metals. Yeah. I mean, that's why they tell like women, you're only supposed to eat so much tuna and so much big fish when you're pregnant. Oh, yeah, because the mercury is a mercury. Well, that stuff is in, you know, you want to get some amazing crab or shrimp or whatever. Yeah. It's got it in it because they live in a bath of it, right? Yeah. And so in some cases, it's like people are like, oh, you know, salt are the evil bad choice. Yeah. And organics is the smooth, reliable choice. And I think that that there's, you know, there's like it's more complex than that. Yeah. And you can grow good weed with both. You know, there's a lot of organic weed that's grown that I don't consider that's that nice. Yeah. You know, yeah, yeah, I've seen some K and F shit, but he fucking wild. Yeah. And so maybe, maybe, maybe we should like get out of the esoteric for a bit. And I'll tell a story that like, like is pertinent to people smoking, right? So I used to go, I used to go to the Oregon Country Fair, OK, which is right outside Eureka. It's like a famous hippie festival. It still goes on. Got delayed a little bit with COVID or whatever. But so I went up there and I was, I was from Chicago and I lived out in Cali for a few years and all that. But so I was all salt back then, because where I grew up and where I came up, like growing weed, you use salt. I lived in apartments. Like there wasn't, you weren't like grabbing soil. You weren't, you didn't have a backyard, you know, like you was like, so anyway, but you move out to Mendo and it's like a lot more, it's a lot more like back to the earth, back to the land or whatever. So there's a lot of people out here that grow dirt. And I went up there and I had all this salt weed. Okay. And it was like the super skunk and the Chem 91 and the Mendo perps and, you know, sour super dog and stuff like that. And they all loved it. And they were all super prejudiced against chem weed. Yeah. But they loved my chem. Right. Yeah. And then they all grew organic. And I never knew a bunch of cats that grew organic like that. Yeah. And so we were like comparing each other's weed all the time. Yeah. You know, and so we, you know, we, we ended up, you know, we ended up teaching each other a bunch of shit. Yeah. Right. And I ended up, I ended up going and working a little bit for John Jebbins who's written a couple of famous books. He lives up in Willets by me and learning as much as I could about organics. Right. Yeah. At a time when like organics was very, very like do it yourself. Yeah. Not very many online didn't exist really. Like, you know, it was basically you were buying raw amendments and everything you had to do. You had to do the work yourself. Yeah. Maybe there was earth, there was earth juice. Yeah. Earth juice. I remember earth juice. Yeah. Yeah. It's still around. There was very few products. There was very few inoculants. There was very few bacteria. There was very few any. It was very like buy raw ingredients and go for it yourself. Right. Yeah. So I did this project for I don't know, probably four years where I grew my favorite strains in my, in one of my rooms and most of the room was dedicated for flower for medical, right. But yeah, I had a section that side by side and the same two lights, I would grow the best organic weed I could. And I would grow the best salt weed I could. Yeah. Of the same strains over and over and over again, right. And then it was just for head. And so I would pass out a bunch of joints to friends of mine and stuff like that. And it would all be blind testing and they would just smoke and tell me what's up. Yeah. And that started to shock me, right. Yeah. Because sometimes with certain strains, they consistently preferred the salt. Yeah. Right. And then the salt was so much easier. I didn't have to put all that. I mean, people should know back then it's like we made the people that taught me like we made our own soil in like concrete in like those concrete tumblers, you know, you'd buy one of those, you know, you buy, you know, you buy your own concrete tumbler and you put all your elements and you put everything in it and you'd stir it up and then you pour it out and you're wearing a mask. And I mean, I had multiple friends go to the hospital for fungus infections in their lungs. I bet. From breathing guano. Yeah. So it was actually kind of dangerous. You kind of had to like eye and mask and glove up to be because you're working with a bunch of shit and a bunch of animal byproducts and all this different stuff. Right. Yeah. And so I would try to make the headiest mix I could. Yeah. And I learned that like some strains consistently people like the organic one better. Mm hmm. And some strains people some consistently like the salt without knowing which was what. Do you remember? Do you remember which strains? Yeah, 100%. Strain the the the chems and the sours typically like were easier with salt. Yeah. The Mendo perps the the super skunk a few different ones would come out really nice organic. Yeah. Right. And it's not like you couldn't it's not like they weren't good. It was just like what you preferred back to back. And I think that's really important for people. People have been asking me a bunch because I've been making some posts about various historical strains. Yeah. Really the only way to have like an effective comparison is for you to grow it yourself in your environment in your room. Same time. OK, I'm going to get these four sour plants. Yeah. I'm going to grow them at the same time under the same environment. Right. I'm not going to get it from my buddy who grows a totally different style in his rooms different temperature. Yeah. I'm going to like it doesn't you just have to be able to see it in the same event. Right. So you can see these plants all these plants for three four years were all treated the same way. Every time. Yeah. You know. And and you know it was and and and so you know and I have a bunch of obviously you have a bunch of friends that smoke weed. So you're giving out AB joints. Yeah. Right. And and and trying to get feedback and I don't think most people ever compare styles. They're doing one style at a time. Yeah. Right. So how do you know what's different. Right. And so we were trying to figure out like me and a few friends we were trying to figure out well what is better. Yeah. What is what is and it was surprising in the sense that you know and there's another aspect to where it's like you start to realize once you start to get a little bit more educated about it. But indoor organic is almost never like outdoor organic. Yeah. I wouldn't know. So well I mean I'll give you a perfect example to make a total sense right. So indoor organic is almost 100 percent organic. Right. It's like a mixture of peat moss and perlite and you know or or cocoa or different things where outside maybe like 10 percent of the medium is organic. Yeah. And the rest of it is clay or or crushed rocks. Minerals are like almost 45 percent of most soils. So like that's why they talk about like there's a six inch layer of topsoil in a lot of places. And that's like your organic matter and then underneath that it's a bunch of rock basically it might be porous rock but crushed rock. But that's what most earth is. So like most people's organic inside is like soilless with added amendments. Yeah. Like you'd never find like if you took say like sunshine number four or something and rice holes and other shit and you add all your amendments and you make the super heady mix. Yeah. It wouldn't exist in nature anywhere. Your mix. Yeah. It's like a cannabis specific mix basically for an indoor garden. Yeah. So you never actually really like any kind of organic inside is like a series of compromises to begin with because you're not like scraping up a bunch of native earth. Yeah. And then using that. Yeah. I mean it's not really organic is it. Well I mean you can't call it organic anyway. Organic is like a federal term. Yeah that's what I mean it's like I don't even think they believe I don't even think legal weed you're allowed to use the term organic yet. Interesting. I don't think so because because organic is actually you have to you have to meet federal criteria. Yeah. In order to get the organic label and not be lying. Right. Yeah. But you can't get federal approval for cannabis because they still think it's it's it's funky. Yeah. You know people saying we're getting artificial light is an organic right. So you know and then there's a thing to where people talk about this is like a big keyword and by no means am I trying to diss anybody. But what is living soil mean. I you know I was assumed it meant to have a fucking worms and microbial life. A bunch of that shit. Right. But almost all organic if it's active has a bunch of microbial life. Sure. You know if you if you take home a well made tea from your hydro store that they brewed fresh or you make tea yourself you're putting in trillions of living organisms into your soil. It's alive. Now it typically means when people talk about living soil they're basically talking about usually like some kind of no till method or some shit like that right. Yeah. But you know but even that is like do you know why most people use no till. I have no clue. To prevent erosion dude. There's a lot of because if you don't till the earth then when the rain comes it's not going to wash away into the river bank. OK. Does that make sense. No. No. OK. So imagine imagine like you're on a factory farm in fucking you know somewhere like Iowa. OK. And you're tilling the earth like a foot deep you're fluffing it up and you're making it all loose. And then there's a torrential rain that comes in. OK. And in that runoff a bunch of earth washes away into the Mississippi. Yeah that makes sense. Right. OK. So that's how that's where most of our top soil went when they talk about the dust bowl. In in in Oklahoma. Yeah they tilled up all the earth and the wind came up and it blew all the fucking earth away. It did. There was like yeah because of the buffalo and shit there was like 10 feet of topsoil in Oklahoma. Yeah. And they didn't know what they were doing with with farming and they got a drought and they tilled it all up and then all these huge winds came in and they and it washed it all fucking away. So I had no idea that's what the dust bowl meant. That's what the dust bowl was. It was literally it was literally people tilling farmland and then the farm land blowing away in the fucking storms. So weird. So no till is basically like this thing where in conventional agriculture they don't want to till the earth and have it blow away or rinse away in rain. So they don't they don't till the earth. They leave it right and they just dig a hole for for the plant. But a lot of them use conventional herbicides and kill all the weeds. OK. So no till inside is like this guy just commented I thought no till was like not disturbing the microbial content. Well that's what we'd people say for no for no till outside. It's that but it's also a huge amount of erosion control. But you don't have erosion problems indoors. Yeah. You could till all you want. It's not like you're going to get a windstorm. It's going to blow away your shit. You know. Yeah that's why I was confused when you're talking about a windstorm. I'm wondering how that applies to indoor for no till. But that's what I mean. But like no till was designed so the soil doesn't fly away. Yeah. And then it gets applied to an indoor environment where there's no wind. Yeah. That's yeah. Right. Yeah. And then you know there's people and when I'm talking about nutrition I'm sure I'm going to people are going to get all upset because I'm going to you're going to start stepping on toes and they're going to say oh well no it's about the layers of microbial and fungal and this and that not disturbing them or whatever you know. But to be honest like cannabis is a shallow root growth plant that likes to grow wider than it does deep. Yeah. And so basically what you're trying to do with cannabis is give it a not some kind of aerated good amount of air and water and the ability for the roots to freely go where they want. Yeah. You know so a hard compact soil that's not that's not a good job. I've also been I've also been accused of being wider than deep this this is wider than deep. Yeah. A few times. Yeah. Shallow even. Shallow some say shallow. Someone say shallow. Why does all in perspective. Someone say so getting back so you know getting back to like what all this means is that. You know I was reading some comments from some people of the other day where they were talking about like their friends that do no till. It works amazing for certain strains. Yeah. And then other strains they do don't respond very well to it. Or you know you have a situation like we have a buddy up in Trinity and it's like if you're going to do depths organically. Yeah. That's a lot harder than a single season where you can give it you know a food designed for vegetative growth for a series of months. Yeah. And then food designed for bloom for a series of months. It's not as easy organically to like get two or three rips out of the same thing a year. No yeah that makes sense. You know and time it perfectly for what you're trying to do so it's like I don't don't get me wrong I think organic quality weed is like can be better than any salt to be honest. But I think a lot of people don't get there. Like salt has a way higher floor. There's a lot of really grown organic weed. Yeah. You know and it's not like they're messing up it's more just like the availability of the food isn't there when the plant needs it. Yeah. So that was like that. It took me years years and years and years to finally smoke organic weed that was really grown well organic. And to me was as well grown as anything grown bad ass and salt and that was from Matt elite that do kills it organic and changed a lot of my own ego with like thinking fuck salts are so much better so much easier why why waste the time because it was it was really special. I mean it all it also depends you know like so you know you've got to fit and this is kind of like what I said in the beginning where it's it's like you know you've got to fit your growing style for what you're trying to do. Yeah of course right and that's important because they don't all fit you know and you know if let's face it like in today's economy with weed prices so cheap and you know no matter whether you're whether you're in the traditional market or you're in the fully legal market you know times are tough right and so people are trying to get X amount of weight per greenhouse or per outdoor patch or per grow room right and so you're trying to get as much pretty weed because people are visual as possible. Yeah right and that's not necessarily heads I mean even back in the old traditional days a lot of the guys I knew they were running 50 or 100 lighters would get their heads from people that were growing six or eight lighters. Yeah yeah that's a pretty common thing even now. Yeah well the other part of it too is like back in the two 15 days when anybody with a two 15 card could go to a like a dispensary excuse me legally sell their earth to that dispensary right. Yeah think about that dispensary there was no regulations there was no cost of entry that they bought so much garage weed. Oh yeah tons here and they could just pick based on quality. Yeah and guys are bringing in weed that's like you know it was cut two weeks ago it's fresh it's still in the perfect form it's in turkey bags it's like not very regulated and they just pick the best and ditch the rest. Yeah now with all this legality you know a lot of time some of that weed doesn't hit the shelf for two or three months. Yeah and it's being grown in these big salt factories or it's being grown at a scale where like all the little things that the eight the eight lighter guy could do they can't. So you. Huh. You you've actually experienced scaling up major right. Oh yeah talk about that I've never done the except with the big big reversal and having to save those dummies fucking already flowering crop for a reversal I had never done major major scale as far as feeding and all that stuff it was it was significantly different especially re-vegging at that scale was any any you know and there's a there's an aspect to where you can talk about this is pretty funny because you know there was these people that just opened up like whatever it is like a hundred and twenty six acres and in fucking so Cal and they're calling craft right yeah yeah everybody agrees that there's a difference between craft and commercial. Yeah the difference is that people get high fee about like when does that where is that line. Yeah you know and like I said before I used to never see the people that would do a great growers and doing a great job they still would not get the same quality weed of their fifty or a hundred lighter that we would get out of a garage size scene. Yeah for the most part they just wouldn't they had way less time per plant they weren't doing quite as many little things that made the plants happy you know like it was a little bit more commercial and yeah you know and then there's an aspect to where it's like they so scaling becomes hard and a lot of times when people scale they lose quality. So we could talk about that for a minute too and I'm not trying to diss them but you look at like the the jungle boys right or some of these big you know Rockwell factory farms. Yeah they're doing that because they have all these different rooms and relying on a bunch of hippies and weirdos to like hand water everything right every day is problematic. Yeah so you know they're trying to automate all this different shit and then just like work on looking at the data and then messing with the the settings and the data and not looking each individual plant right yeah and so what they're doing is that there's a lot of technology from northern Europe that basically is the basis of all hydroponics. Yeah grow Dan all that they all learned how to do all this growing tomatoes and peppers and cucumbers and all these vegetables for places that are shitty like northern Europe but have money yeah yeah and you can go there and you can see hot houses greenhouses that have tens of thousands of plants tens of thousands of lights. Yeah right so you see these trick systems that they're installing they're all based on that yeah right yeah so they get all these things and they're looking at graphs right and they've got they've got like the moisture meter and they're perfectly planning the wet and dry cycles and they're and they're you know dialing in their their salts and everything and it's like even the setup itself is like a plumbing nightmare it's so intense and then people call their weed cardboard. Yeah right because what happens is that you're trying to do a one size fits all and cannabis actually it turns out it doesn't like being fed perfectly its whole life. No like they've done studies where they've shown that certain amounts of drought stress or certain amounts of stress to the plant actually creates more terpenes and more crystal. Yeah I'm going to say beat the hell out of your plant. No I've seen it firsthand those straights stress like where did I first learn that about it was it had to do with bugs attacking the plant and and that's why the trichomes are there. Yeah bugs like yeah signal you know they signal a thing to the plant where I need to make more THC I need to make it harder for them to crawl on me I need to make it harder for them to bite me you know and so you get these perfect rooms and everything's perfect and everything's everything's dialed in and they're like fine tuning stuff and they have control over all their parameters right and then their weed comes up not that good you know and the guy that like you know like if they got a little dry and a little will to you a few times and they stressed here in there a little bit like that we was happy yeah there was it was better but they're trying to grow like a reasonably good looking product at scale. Yeah and they can't have fucking you know three dozen rooms and treat it like you have a garage or treat it like you have one greenhouse and no job. Yeah you know you know you have a situation there's people that you that are IG that are quite popular and they don't have that many plants and they have a greenhouse. Yeah and that's their job and you can go out there and you can baby them and you can give them every little thing but then you join a legal scene and like you're working I don't talk very much about what I was doing but like you try to develop some things at scale and you've got to water some acreage and it's a whole different thing. Yeah and it's not that easy to do. No I can't imagine you know it's so much to go wrong. A lot of people messed up even just going from how big they were doing just to like two or three or four ten thousand square foot. Yeah like and they started really and they started you know really messing you know they started really messing up. Yeah you know and and so like a lot of and that's why because because like dispensaries can't just buy the best weed from whoever walks in with a duffel bag anymore. Yeah they were able to buy from like a lot of small time local gardeners. You know and the Bay would get tons of people from even a land Alain San Diego were flooded with weed from Humboldt and Lake. Oh yeah Mendo all that there was people that would drive up to my area every week to get to bring it down to the dispensaries that was their entire gig was to flow it right into dispensaries. And so they could they could say yes or no to any wheat that walked through their door. Right. And now there's all this regulation and there's all this thing and all this packaging and there's all this testing and there's all this time and people are trying to learn how to grow on a lot bigger scale and their weed is like. Yeah way down. Way down in quality in my opinion you know and people are going to learn they're going to get better over time. But right now customers are fucked because they're paying more than they used to and the availability is shittier. But at least it looks good on I.G. It was and that and that's another thing I.G. fucked it all up. Yeah. Because you couldn't sniff it or smell it or anything like that like you you know you could just see it. And so cookies cookies was perfectly timed for the social media wave. Yeah because it was unusually visually attractive. And very unique looking at it definitely just stand out from what was out there. Yeah and now there's a whole thing where you see so many of these different strains and a lot of them I think have been chosen based on looks and testing. And they can be like not to judge it but oh look here's Apple fritter and it tested 33 percent and look how fire it looks. And then it fucking is the worst term bomb on the face of the earth for breeding. Are you smoking and everyone's all excited because the people that they respect are hyping it and then six months later you know you're like I don't think I'm going to buy that seventy dollar eight. Yeah it just didn't it just didn't hit it for me. You know what before before we school far too far along I do remember there's one thing that I wanted to talk about and when it's feeding for breeding as far as vegetative stuff one thing that I find a lot of bridges do when I talk to him and it's totally counterproductive is when you are running cycles of different rooms in different different strains you're trying to do multiple projects and they're one after the other after the other. You start learning to feed differently to slow down the growth to try to make room and that's not something that's totally counterproductive and counterintuitive but some of us have learned how to stunt our plants and bring them out of being stunted because it's just there's no way to constantly have that room to feed in new cycles. So you know there's things you'll do when breeding that you would never do for production because it would absolutely just but fuck you for for great flower. Well yeah I mean if you've got if you've got a big collection of mom's and stock then very likely what you're doing is you're keeping a bunch at moderate small size under enough light to like keep them going and happy but nothing too vigorous and then you've got moderate health and then you're planting you're planning on putting some plants in like a vigorous very well lit spot to get them going because you have projects in mind for them and you want to get very vigorous cuttings and small plants going off and so there's a rotation there that goes in where it's like a fine balance. Yeah it's hurting to to not you know if you're someone like you know like CSI or whatever and you've got 150 different plants in moms and then you've got a bunch of stuff you're keeping for phenol hunting and all of a sudden you've got hundreds of different strains and you might want to slow things down on a bunch of it. Yeah a phenol hunt you might want to keep it going really slow. Yeah you know and even starve it somewhat until you see what you have because if you start pumping it like you're trying to pump it to get ready to bloom a room all of a sudden you've got jungle growth and where do you put it all. Yeah. Yep especially keeping some of the older lines in all five phases and stuff like that. You get it gets jungly so fucking fast. Yeah I guess we're jungling you know and then you know and and so you have an aspect where it's like I just thought we could talk about it from a flower perspective too because you try to talk to people and like the thing that I get the most when we try to talk nutrition is like smugness like they were people people are smug. Oh yeah yeah like they want they want to know that I'm growing the better way this way works you know what the fuck you talking about I get two and a half pounds of light everybody thinks my meat is fire you know and I'm not dissing anybody I'm not like that's not what I'm trying to say I'm just trying to say that like very few people are doing side by sides to try to see what methods are giving them better weed. Yeah they're growing the same style at one time and if they change styles they change it over entirely. Yeah you know and so you're not really comparing you're just and you know most people's goals are just to sell it right so yeah there's things with organic like when I first moved here there was people that have been using their beds or using their holes in the in the hills or whatever for 10 or 15, 20 years and every year those things got better and better right because they were able to add amendments they were able to add you know bacteria and various things it was alive it was like old and aged and fully functional and work and going good to go. If you're going to grow organic the first rip or two probably isn't going to be as nice as the fifth or sixth one. Okay that makes sense because it take like you know you've heard about green sand you've heard about green sand green sand doesn't even become bio available for two years after you put it in. Yeah same with normal silica you know it's like one year I think. There's things that are on that are fairly immediate there's things that take two or three months there's things that take a year you know and so if you have aged if you have aged stuff you know like a lot of that breaking down on availability has happened. Yeah and the natural cycle is doing it for you but if you're starting a fresh facility. You're going to get a bunch of wrong ingredients or whatever like you know tossed together and you're going to have to amend. Yeah. You know and so if you're like if you probably another thing is that like if you're a small tent farmer or you're a small garage farmer and you're just trying to grow the best you can. Don't try to copy some giant scene. Yeah they are not the way for you they are not growing as good a weed as you could on a smaller scale. You're like you're like a hobbyist slash farmer. Right yeah if you're going to grow at scale you're going to try to have to figure out how can I take the methods that I like and scale them up. Yeah probably going to sacrifice some quality at scale. You know and you know if you're if you're trying to grow for seed then you know then definitely you're not growing for flower. You're probably going to want to add more nitrogen you're probably going to want to top dress with some different things. You know I also like to use a and I'm I'm a sucker for power SI just because I used you know regular silica for so long and didn't understand that it wasn't really very bio available for the plant and when I started using the power SI stuff because someone was asking about feeding for veg moms and stuff like that that's probably when one of the biggest game-changers for me was that specific additive monosalicylic acid or orthosalicylic acid because it makes it makes everything so readily bio available it's just so fast how quick it up takes nitrogen and everything that goes along with it. I should also say something to right like so whether you're organic or salt. One of the big reasons why things don't grow in winter is that the roots get too cold. Yeah and then the poor shrink and when the poor shrink and the and the relationship between the pressure both in the roots and within the the soil itself changes they can't uptake salt. So if you're feeding with 50 degree water and you've got and you're growing with like canna or you know or Athena or any of these things people are mentioning and it's too cold your plants are all going to suffer because the plants not going to suck up the nutrition. Your pH can be perfect. Right. But the temperatures too much for it. It needs a certain temperature range. Yeah. And there's also a thing too where it's like water in the 80s holds like half the oxygen that water in the 60s holds. So there's actually like a window there. Yeah. Where like mid 60s to low 70s is probably the best ratio of like absorbability versus like oxygen ratio because the only place your plant really absorbs oxygen is through its roots. Yeah. It takes CO2 and through the leaves and it takes O2 and through the roots. You know. And when people over water that's what fucks the plant up is there's no oxygen in there. Yeah. That's our roots. Yeah. The roots can't breathe so they drown. Right. And so you know there's an aspect where it's like if you're growing indoor and you want to be organic there's trade offs like you see these people that are like oh there I'm on the 26th cycle. Yeah. I just add various amendments over time the I just water it the bio you know the the organic does what it needs to do the plant absorbs what it wants when it wants. But then I have people that grow organic that grow in pots and their whole goal is to give it enough food to veg and bloom to where they want and then run out of food towards the end. So that the plant starts to starve itself for nutrition and you start getting all those beautiful autumn colors on the plant. Yeah. And then when you harvest it it's used up all of its excess because if you're growing K and F style or you're growing like stuff that's amended that you just you know you're no till and you're never changing it. Well then you're never flushing for instance. Yeah. And so some people are a big believer in flush. Mm hmm. You know whether you even salt or organic some people want to give it just the amount of food it needs and then starve it. Yeah. And some people give it chock full food right up until the end of flower. Yeah. And a lot of times when you're growing for production. You know like people the other thing is is like when you're growing for flour and this always is to make me laugh right is that people want the best weed. But one yellow leaf and you fucked up. You know they're looking at a bag and they're like oh there's a little bit of there's a bit of brown in there. Yeah there's a tiny little bit of yellow you should give me a deal. Yeah this is some fucked up weed and you're like no I flushed it for two weeks it's perfect. Yeah that's supposed to look. And they're like no no it's got some funk in it. So a lot of people will just pump it right up until the day of harvest. Because it looks better because it looks better to the broker. It's not gonna smoke as good. Yeah but it looks better to the broker. Yeah and that's what they care about they don't want the broker to bitch and start kicking the tires and try to knock points off. Yeah. Right and so then people don't grow as nice a weed. I mean there's even a thing where like you know I'll say this about the chems where it's like if you grow the dog or what people call the chem ninety one now and you take it what we all use to take it which is about seventy ish days. It usually tests between eighteen and twenty two percent. Yeah and it knocks your head off. Right but if you take it fifty three or fifty four days it'll still have white hairs all over it. But it'll test twenty eight to thirty two percent. Yeah and so a lot of people that like put it on the market they take it early. Right get that high percentage because the the shop and the and the distro or whatever like it's one they don't want to give you for a nineteen or twenty one percent weed they don't want to give you the price point. That's so fucking but if it's thirty one percent so you'll you'll see weed and you're like I'll look at this week and I'll be like that dog is like two weeks preemie. Yeah but it tested thirty percent. And the shop is happy. Yeah the distro is happy and they'll give you your price. Yeah and it's not as good for the smoker. Right but yeah a lot in a lot of cases like these regulations and these new rules. Are not taking the smoker into account. I mean it in some sense though like I think smokers may have priced themselves out just by. Just by. Absorbing things like cookies things things that are you know cardboardy with high T. H. C. stuff and they were happy with it despite most people like when you really ask them like do you really like like that you know the form cut do you really like getting high off that like to be like. Oh it's okay you know for twenty minutes or ten minutes and then it's you know whatever but. Yeah they kind of let themselves be told what to buy. You know they do and this is where we ended up. They so there's an aspect one of the things is interesting. And it's something I mentioned before but it bears repeating I guess is like the first four or five years that. They published like the Emerald Cup and like some high times entries for T. H. C. and you were able to see. Like you know before people were breeding by numbers. Before a lot of breeders were getting data on like what you know what the what the T. H. C. content was almost everything that was winning was between twenty two and twenty six percent. Yeah there was like four or five things. In the first five years. Like that ever tested in the upper twenties or hit thirty. Yeah yeah right I can like in two of them were Kim ninety one there was a strawberry cough there was another weird one you remember how rare the thirty percent club used to be. Yeah yeah it was unheard of until like two thousand nine ten people started claiming the thirties thirty percent right and so now you have this so basically all the favorite lead that people were paying good digits for. Was coming in and the low to mid twenties at best. Yeah so it basically means as soon as you hit high teens to mid twenties that's where almost all the elites were falling. Yeah everything that everybody fucking drills over from back then cushions hours fucking all the shit was all hitting that range. Yeah and then people started growing because shops were like I'll pay you more for higher THC. Yeah so they start selecting cuts that test better. Yeah not necessarily ones that smoke better. And start selecting the labs that test. So now that's why I say breeding by numbers. Yeah so you're kind of breeding by smoke testing and what your friends think. And how long lasting the high is like you were mentioning. Or how intense it might be. They start being like oh well this one tests at thirty two and four percent terpenes. There's no such thing as a fucking high thirty yet is there. I mean are we at the high there's now. So I mean there's there's a lot of things that people do like like. You know CSI have talked about this a bunch where there's a lot of labs that over test. Sure because it's good for the distro it's good for the store it makes an easy sale everybody likes it. And so he's done experiments where he's sent things off to commercial labs. And the same bud to a friend who he knows is going to do an accurate test. And it might be as much as five or eight percent different. Oh yeah I've seen it much different vastly different it's insane but the thing is is now you've got five or six or seven or eight years ten years or whatever breeding by numbers. And there's a huge thirty plus percent club. Oh good it's going to master flex posted something it's forty percent. Well there we go. So you start getting higher and higher right. And but then the effect sucks. Yeah. So then what does it matter. Yeah I mean. I had a blueberry purple punch tested thirty four so you know anything's possible. You can't even pull those numbers out of individually you know. And what's crazy about that is when you think about thirty or thirty five or forty like Matt was just laughing about. That's the percentage of T. H. C. by weight on the flower. Yes. So yes it's crazy because you start getting these numbers and it's like is it just going to be like. You know how much T. H. C. can you pack on a plant. Yeah and how much is left for cannabinoids and other cannabinoids and yeah and it's not obviously like alcohol where ever clear is stronger than vodka which is stronger than wine which is stronger than beer it doesn't work like that. Like there is there is a certain situation where like you know CSI and I see Fletcher on that there's some old school strains that only test like eight ten twelve percent. Yeah and they don't hit that hard. But once you get up to eighteen twenty to twenty two to twenty four. That's where like all the elites and the old best weed faults. You know where most of the skunky stuff is falling right now that we've been looking at. Low teens. No. Four to eight. Four to eight for the most skunky stuff. I mean you know the the Mendo perps is supposedly you know seed from the late seventies or whatever yeah I'm going to test you know eight or ten percent at best. Yeah some of the S. Ones can get up into the high teens. Yeah but the mom cut itself is pretty low. You know and I think that used to be super common like I think even like old school skunk one right. Yeah was four thirteen to fifteen back then. Yeah when they could get testing done. You know and so we've gone from like the start of everything where things were you know low to you know single high single digits to low teens to mid teens to upper teens low twenties. Yeah and now it's all maybe it's all fake or whatever but it doesn't seem like after a certain point there's a big correlation between high numbers and best effect. No not at all. Because my friend would get all pissed off because they'd be like dude I don't know if I can get your weed for the right price this dog is only this can ninety one only testing an eighteen percent. But it took your head off. Yeah. You know but they would rather take two week pre knee can ninety one because it tested twenty nine. Yeah. Right and so I just I just think that like people started rather the only thing that matters is like how how it affects you. Yes the more people get away with effects and like not testing stuff like by smoking it with a variety of humans. Yeah. Because even one person two people like some of my favorite weed is stuff that Matt doesn't like at all. Yes just not that he doesn't appreciate it it just doesn't make him feel good. Yeah yeah some of it just fucked me up like paranoid or anxiety or yeah. Yeah some people get some people get weirded out some people love a buzz some people like sativa I mean there's a range of effect. Yeah. And so I think if you get away from like I don't think a bunch of people are doing smoke testing. Yeah they're trying to find something that looks impressive and tests impressive. Yeah. Right and then all of a sudden now we have a bunch of like midsy elites. Yeah. Right. We have a bunch of elites where it's like people were saying oh I hate Fritter you know like well there was a minute there where like and people are growing stuff because they're like oh this weed gets this amount of pound. Yeah it's an elite. So I'm going to grow lemon cherry gelato or I'm going to grow this runs by this or I'm going to grow this jealousy cut because my buddies can get top dollar for it and I'm not trying to call it mids but it's probably not going to stand the test of time. No you know like like right now sour is coming back around diesels. Yeah. Why because it's fire weed and it works and it smokes and it tastes great. Yeah. You know and that weed that works is always going to have a popularity basis. Yeah. Where weed that doesn't work you know like you can only the hype boys can only hype it for so long. I mean Burner can obviously sell the shit out of anything. Yeah yeah. You know he's great at promotion he's great at getting hip hop and rat and various stars smoking his weed and exclusive spots and building up but he's a horrible horrible kisser. I have no idea. You know don't let him lie to you he's a liar about that shit. But there's an aspect where it's like you can only promote something for you can only force people to like something for so long. Yeah. Before they make their own decision. Yeah. Right. And so that's why that's why you have all this shit that like gets like flashing the pan that gets popular for eight or ten months or a year a year and a half. Yeah and then it's gone it's replaced by some new hype. Yeah where things that used to get popular before like the purples or the cushes or the Sours or whatever the Skittles when they become organically popular. Right where it's like grass roots popularity drives it. They're a lot more lasting. Yeah then when it's hyped. You know yeah as hype has become marketing cannabis weed wasn't weed wasn't ready for modern marketing. No we weren't ready for it at all we were so right to be abused by modern advertising techniques. Yeah then like you know it just got overwhelmed and people realized oh I don't even need to have good weed to make money. Ten years ago that shit wouldn't have worked everybody would have laughed at a motherfucker for trying to front that hard. You know but nowadays it just flies. Ten years ago the only way something became elite was when enough people that were respected decided it was good. Yeah. And like or you know the market demand or the market demanded it. Yeah. And the market really when it boils down to it when you have stuff like the purple wave with the urkel and the Mendo P and the grape ape and all those and granddaddy and all that or you have the Kush wave in Southern California the sour thing that happened for 10 years that was market dictated a bunch of a bunch of people wanted to get as much of it as they could. Yeah because they knew that the customers would endlessly buy it and they didn't get burned out. Yeah that's why you can have 40 different fucking named cushes and so Cal. Yeah I was trying to name them all the other day and it like maybe want to pound my head against that because there's literally like you could walk into and you know 2010 you could walk into a dispensary in L.A. and they would literally have like two dozen kinds of Kush. Oh easily some of them have like 50 60 different types of OG's. Yeah. All these different names on some of them were repeated and just some of course. Yeah. They just had different names. Yeah. But yeah like the entire dispensary was one family a week and slight variations. Yeah. You know and you know from the East Coast and different things come into California sour was like endless. Yeah. There was endless demand for gas. You know and now instead of seeing endless demand for one or two things that people can focus on a lot of growers like what the fuck do I even grow. Yeah. Because if you're in the legal market you don't have a direct connection with your consumer. You have to get a distro and unless you own them you have to get a distro and then a dispensary to buy it. I remember red up in Canada talking about that with the Canadian legal stuff about now they have the buyers are people that aren't even from cannabis now and they are who determine what value you're getting for your weed non smoking. Oh yeah. Corporate people. Honestly that was a depressing part of that. I really liked that interview he was super personable. Yeah. That was hard to listen to. Just there just the reality of what matters and what doesn't. Yeah. And him looking at testing and paperwork. Yeah. Deciding what to do without even seeing the weed because if it didn't have the testing and the paperwork right it was irrelevant. Yeah. It just matters. And so a lot of times. OK. There's a lot of stuff out there that's really fire weed and the reason why you can't get it is because it doesn't make financial sense for the grower to grow it because the people that are in between him and you don't want to do it. Yeah. So you get fucked. Yeah. You personally out there you get fucked because the growers friends get to have it sometimes. You know it gets traded amongst each other. It gets survived and all that. You know. But the consumer doesn't get to see it. Yeah. You know. And we were joking. I'll mention it one more time because there's there's this you know huge grow that's getting set up in SoCal it's like over a hundred acres and everybody was ragging on them or whatever because it's like another big corporate takeover type thing. Right. Yeah. And you look at their clone list and they're getting a bunch of gelato hybrids and Skittles hybrids. Right. Like the market is underserved right now with gelato and Skittles. Yeah. They really got to fill that niche. Yeah. Course not. You know. And so and you know if customers could buy straight from the farm or straight from cooperatives or whatever. You know then cooperatives would be able to grow more niche weed. You know and be like oh I'll do some trying to get some real Bubba Kush. Yeah. Try to find some real sour diesel. Try to find some Urkel. Try to find you know there should be with legality. All the classics you should be able to buy Led Zeppelin. In the in the in the record store. Oh I was like what they got. Led Zeppelin. I just mean imagine like you're like oh that's not popular anymore you weren't around the 70s you can't buy. Oh yeah yeah like legal weed there should be a thing where it's like all the hits. If we're going to compare it to music right. You can go get all kinds of punk that's like way out of date. Yeah. But you can't get Acapulco Gold. Yeah. Get Urkel. You can't get you know G 13 and L2 you can't get you can't get the classics of weed. Right. And so right now California itself is a wash and all this candy named bullshit. Right which is fine if people want to buy that stuff it's fine I'm not I'm not trying to throw it out there but you can't you know like you know it's it can't all be Sherbal Otto. Why can't I hit is though. It is why can't why can't I get real sour diesel why can't I get real push why can't I get Trinity why can't I get Bubba kush yeah why can't I get granddaddy purple. Yeah you know because because there's there's like you know consumers don't have power to demand they have to go to the store and they have to buy what the store wants to put in their store. Yeah. You know and that that might be getting chosen based on their margin. There's this company up by me fucking Flo Khanna right there they blew through a shit ton of money. Do you know I don't know if people know this but like there's a lot of big companies that pay dispensaries for shelf space. Yeah. Straight self space shelf space like you know and that and that's a profit they make just to put the fucking the weed on the shelf so the consumer can see it. You know in the 50s or in the 60s or whatever there was that huge record scandal because everybody all the DJs disc jockeys it was paid to play. Oh yeah to pay all that. Yeah. So how does how does your how does your hit get popular if you can't get a radio station to play it so people hear it and they want to go buy your album. Yeah. And there's people that were getting bribed to play certain things and not play others. Yeah. I'm connecting it to music again but it's the same fucking thing these dispensaries because there's not enough of them. They're deciding what gets on their shelf and not and they're deciding it what's based on what's good for them. Yeah. Not what's good for the consumer out there what's good for them. Yeah. You know so choice has actually gone down. Quite a bit. Quite a bit. Expenses up quality is down choices down and how do you how do you like let's say that that you know CSI or somebody like or me or whoever Fletch comes up with an amazing new hybrid. Yeah. Right. Unless you're vertically integrated and you can control the supply chain you can't even guarantee you're going to get it in a shop. Oh yeah. You can't guarantee at all that a bud tender will give a shit. Yeah. You know so it's like a whole stiluge of like everything that's already pop already popular. And variations on that theme. You know and it gets controlled and so the reason why I think that all these elites from I always talk about like the 90s and the early 2000s are still my favorite era a weed is it's because the best weed from then was consumer choice. Sorry I just read that question popped up after everything we said. Anyway yeah anyway but you know yeah that you know it all the you know sour became popular Kush became popular because people wanted it they were willing to spend a bunch of money on it there was demand and yeah you know and people wanted to fill that demand. Yeah. And now it's like oh it's you know it's here's a bunch of here's a bunch of weed and with nurseries people might not know this but most most like cultivators they don't even get to keep their own mom house they have to get it from a nursery. That's a wild and then the nursery might offer 10 or 15 different things for this season. They might have a hundred things but they're only they only momed up enough to do like a lot of certain stuff. Yeah. So then you're forced to operate off their menu. So it's like the nursery limits you. Right like when I was working in a big scene a couple of years ago I was trying to find some some some real sour diesel like on the legal market metric. Yeah. And I couldn't find it pure. Of course I think I could find was spy rock sour which was some sour across the some Kush. I couldn't find it pure to grow on the farm I was consulting at. Yeah. You know but back in the day in two fifteen you could be like oh we're going to fill these four greenhouses with this. Yeah. And then we're going to take duffel bags of the dispensary and then you're going to buy it. People are going to be stoked. Sixty four ruin the fucking world. I'm most of most of most of most of the good cushion a lot of the good Kush that was in LA came from my neck of the woods. Yeah. There was constantly brokers coming up that their entire job was just to grab excess capacity from up here and bring it down to the the SoCal you know dispensaries. Yeah. You know and and so people could go hunt the best weed. And then go and then the and then the you know the the dispensaries could pick the best week if they wanted to. Yeah now it's like they have to buy it from a dispensary they have to buy it from a distro and the distros to buy it from a farmer and it just turned everything into like a commodity. Yeah. You know and so as a result of that everybody I never thought I was worried about a bunch of shit with legalization. I never thought that like we would accept way higher prices than the black market or the gray market and shittier quality. Yeah. But so far that's what we've gotten. Yeah sure is. You know that's what we've gotten. And so you know we started off talking about and the reason why we've gotten that is because you have all these commercial farms that have intense pressure with taxes and overhead and regulations and paying out all this fucking money right. And quality and consumer happiness is like they do the best they can in some instances but it's not that great. But they're doing the best they can with the constraints they're put under. Yeah. And a lot of little things that used to get done to make weed nice is getting eliminated. Yeah. And so your weed isn't as nice. You know when people talk about all the time your weed is fire your weeds not fire. Yeah. You know and a lot of times it's like some of these things like the Emerald Cup and all this different shit you know like and I'm not saying this I've known Tim for a long time so this isn't a diss at him and on any level. But when you're forced to basically like for the most part only except from like licensed buyers people aren't entering the best weed in California anymore. No no. Because you have to cut off this large segment of the population that used to win fucking cups. Yeah. They used to be able to come there with their perfectly grown greenhouse weed from their little greenhouse that they treated perfect and they got to give two four two to four ounces to the testing. And then they placed third. Yeah. Oh but you know but but the thing is the difference Fletcher's like stop shitting on my weed. The difference between Fletcher from what it like from archive from what I understand is that they have a dispensary. Yes. They have control. Archive can make a choice to I'm like I'm going to take the moonbow I'm going to take this that I love and I'm going to make sure consumers get it. Yeah. Right. So but most farmers most farmers in California aren't vertically integrated. Yeah. Now have to sell their they have to sell their week. You know and so if you're vertically integrated then you can have some uniqueness and you can choose like he could choose to take things that he doesn't want to share and you can only come to his stores to get them. It's no fair motherfucker. You know and a lot of people are cut off and a lot of people's top shelf. Dispensary top shelf used to be six to 20 lighters. Yeah. You know done by small scale people. And that was constantly filling the top shelf because that was the top shelf. Yep. Now all those people are fucking cut off. And what used to be the midsy shelf is now top shelf for more money. Well those people are looking for new fucking jobs. And you know and so a lot of the best weed got cut off from consumers. Yeah. You know before they could even smoke it. You know you can't like I don't know you can't you can't get real haze in California. Yeah. No. You can't get real sour diesel. It's starting to make a comeback. Maybe it'll start forcing itself on some shelves. Hey yeah. But there's only but then there's all this stuff too where it's like these vertically integrated companies like if you're going to get from Jungle Boys or whoever you're probably going to get mostly their weed that they're growing because they want to sell their weed through their outlet. Yeah. Two. So then you know you get the selection from them. You know and a lot of these dispensaries have captured markets. So what you're getting is you're getting a lot of commercially grown weed that they're trying to grow for cheap and get a minimum level of quality. And then you're trapped because you can own there's only you know seven hundred stores in California. You got to buy one of them and you can't really get great deals. So you end up like getting a bunch of expensive commercial. Yeah. And that access to that actual top shelf top shelf that actual fire that was treated deliciously and grown perfectly with organic or salt or whatever and all the little things done the right way. Yeah. You don't even get to see that anymore. Yeah. Like you know what's funny is all these American beer companies were never winning any any beer awards. Did you know that. Right. No. So these all these like international competitions obviously like Mikalov and Milwaukee's best and Budweiser and all that were never winning any gold medals at any of these at any of these competitions. The beast wasn't winning medals. No. So they made their own. They made their own category American Lager. Oh no. So now a bunch of these companies have gold medals because they were only fucking competing against themselves. Yeah. Right. When they were competing against other micro breweries and places from Belgium and Germany and all that shit they had no chance. Yeah. Their beer wasn't as good. Yeah. Right. So now you're getting the same thing here where you're getting all these big factory farms and they're like do you want old style. Do you want old Milwaukee. Do you want Mikalov. Do you want Budweiser. Do you want Coors. Yeah. You know like oh you want some heady. How about some Heineken. Yeah. Oh what it's maybe some Amstel light get an import. Right. And that's what you're competing against. You'd actually can't get these little you can't get these little things where the quality really matters and until they open that stuff up. So if you're growing for yourself I said it before don't emulate some big farm. Yeah. They're cutting corners. They're doing things that only work at scale. Mm hmm. You know. And all that right. Like do things there's there's a there's a I mean it's I don't want to get too technical because I'm trying to keep it general. Enough that like you know it stays fairly popular because I don't know how many people are actual growers on this thing versus just smokers or whatever but yeah. But yeah it's it's it's there's an aspect where it's like plants don't drink the same. It's really hard to like just automate everything. And there is microclimates even like in a real in this and reversing a shit load how how one clone to the next clone won't reverse the same way even if they're two feet apart from each other or a foot apart from each other getting the same exact feet microclimates are a real thing too. So yeah and some of those big rooms the microclimates are really different. Yeah. You know and I mean we haven't even talked about spectrum but yeah that has a big if you're not growing with with the sun one of the best lights to this day is still the single-ended old school Hordelux thousand. A lot of these grown under double-endeds and stuff like that like a lot of them people are choosing spectrums that give the most weight. Yeah. And not blends that give a better quality. Yeah. You know. And because because we're not in a position yet it's like such a regulated and taxed industry that the best isn't allowed to bubble to the top. Yeah. It's controlled by dispensaries by disposed by burner by people popularizing things by celebrities stepping in and people throwing their money around. And so that's why that's why if you're if you're bummed at how you're the weed sucks in clubs that's why. Yeah. Because consumer choice has gone way down since two fifteen. We are at an hour and a half right now. Dang. People want to get down. We could start doing the shit. You want to take some questions or I could take some questions. I mean I could talk to maybe I'll talk for five or ten minutes even though we're winding it down because I haven't I haven't talked about it but. Aside from nutrition and environment which we kind of talked about a little bit before. The spectrum that the plants grow under makes a big difference. Yeah. And that could probably be its own whole show. But just in general plants developed underneath the sun which has all the spectrum all the time everything from UV to you know every color huge where most indoor lights are approximations of that and they have relatively narrow spectrums. Yeah. Right. And you put plants underneath them and they grow vastly differently depending on what kind of light they're exposed to. Yeah. We used to twenty years ago when there wasn't all these other lights we would grow one light of metal halide. And the buds would come out half the size. But they would burn better and they'd be way frostier than the HPS stuff. Yeah. Now you see all this stuff with ceramics and LEDs and this and that and everything else. And it's like different plants some plants respond to like a different different types of light and do well regardless. Some plants do phenomenal under one type of light and then like you move them and you think oh I'm going to put them under this and it's going to do great and then they hate it. Yeah. Because they're not getting sometimes you'd see people where they were growing all these straight HPS's and then they'd have straight up old school metal halides like hanging from the ceiling. Yeah. Are you mean the vertical ones. Yeah vertical just just to give but I just mean I still got scars from those fuckers but just just to give a different spectrum like not to be the majority of it but just to shine some blue. Yeah. So the plants had that to use and you remember like the crusty buckets. Yeah. That guy's that guy swore if you didn't have twenty five percent metal halide light you couldn't get those kind of huge plants. Yeah. He swore if you if you had all HPS you get you get shittier weed. Yeah. In order to get the size and the frost you needed some blue. Yeah. And that's partially why the old HPS single ended a lot of people considered them to be the best all around light and they were the standard because they had twenty five percent more blue. Yeah. You look at their spectrum versus like a double ended right now that's HPS and the HPS is almost all orange and red. Yeah. Very little UV very little and so I have a bunch of plants like my headband and my sours and dog and stuff. You know and you grow them under different lights. I grew that I grew the dog once under pure ceramic. Yeah. I cut it at eighty five days and it still had white hairs. Yeah. And you know what's weird is that I grew the dog shit under that same light and it finished two weeks earlier than it normally would. With a different spectrum. Yeah. With the CM normally the dog shit would go twelve or thirteen weeks. Yeah. I grew it under pure thirty one hundred ceramic metal halides. It was done in seventy days every hair turned fully ripened. I've got beautiful pics of it. It shaved two weeks off but the same spectrum. Yeah. The dog go two weeks longer than I've ever taken. Yeah. That's funny. I've never taken the dog eighty five days in my life. Yeah. You know she's she's sixty she's sixty three to seventy and she's pretty done. Yeah. And when I finally cut her and I gave up tons of white hairs all over. Yeah. So you know maybe like as a as a final thing if you're trying to grow heads spectrum plays a big deal. Food plays a big deal. Your style definitely helps and like less is more. Yeah. In a lot of ways like just enough and nothing more is a better style than like let's give it way too much and pop it. Let's supersize it let's get hot you know let's run hot. You know I don't that's not going to that might give you better weight but I doubt it will give you better week better week. Yeah. You know and so and that's a lot of times like what what it happens is like like whether it's drying or curing or growing or your nutrition or your environment like growing the same strains over and over that your favorites and learning why some rips they come out amazing. Yeah. And some rips you're like you know yeah because even good growers get they get the anthrax. Oh yeah. Oh yeah yeah I mean honestly people people are still using shit other than LEDs. I think LEDs have come a long way. I'm still not convinced they're better than a blend of other light. I still have never even tried LED lights. So if any LED light sponsors want to sponsor I'll give it a fucking try but I tend to like CMH quite a bit. Do I think that LEDs are great for for various aspects of heat and do I like do I how I started seeing a lot of nice weed under them and do they have good applications. I do. But I still think some of the best heads you can ever grow are often old school hordilocks single ended bulk. Yeah. You know a lot of award winning weed and a lot of fire came out of that. Yeah. The whole indoor sour era the whole indoor kush era the whole indoor purple era all grown under those bulbs. You know I always hated fucking hordilocks that is they had a chick that was running it and they were so anti fucking cannabis it was retarded how anti cannabis that company wasn't how much money they made off cannabis growers. Yeah I mean it's well you know there's prohibition it's it's it's dangerous. There's a like we could wind it down but I'll tell a story so I live in Mendo and one time I was friends with the I was friends with the produce guy at our safeway and there was one point in Willets where that safeway sold more organic produce than any safeway in the country. Yeah because there was so many fucking of us right it was just unbelievable so this guy he tells me it's funny story of this guy from Reynolds comes in right because this safeway was the number one selling turkey bag store for Reynolds turkey bags in the entire country. We were number one he couldn't believe it. They came out there to figure out what the hell is going on. Why are people cooking so many fucking turkeys why are people cooking they had no idea they were like this zone. We have more like can we spread what we're doing here to other parts because our sales are through the fucking roof you know yeah and when they found out it was all for weed like the dude's face just you know he was just so bummed right yeah but it was it was like because back then you couldn't get like turkey bags and 50 or 100 packs like you can today. Yeah you would have to go to the store and like the turkey turkey they came in like two or three packs. Yeah yeah so if you had you know an indoor and 20 pound you had to buy 10 back 10 boxes. Yeah and you're at the store you know it's like buying like lube or something like that you're like you want to get other shit. Why I never got the turkey bag fucking thing because it's not like it really kept smells. It was the standard it was it was a bag that fit a pound. You can tie it and like the thing is with fluffy weed if you didn't get the bigger turkey bag you could not have enough of a tail to make a knot and seal it off of off a full pound. So like where do you get a bag that can fit a pound. Yeah that's a good point. That's a very good point you know. And it's like you grow Kush or something or you know Urkel you're going to get a tight pound. Yeah you grow diesel and it's going to be like a tall pound. Yeah. You know so there's an aspect to it where it's like it just became the standard. And what days of fighting over fucking sizes of bags and weight. Yeah. And and so the amount what's crazy is that like will the will it's safe way learned. And they just had I mean they would just they would they would just buy immense amounts of the shit. All the time it was like such a huge seller for so long because there wasn't. Eventually companies started making where you could go to the hydro store and you could buy like twenty five or fifty or a hundred and it was like something you could purchase there and not be so embarrassed. But you had to but back in the day you had to just go into the grocery store. Yeah that's where you fucking got it you know. Yeah. And that's how it fit so. So yeah I guess we've been on I mean we've been. The reason why we wanted to chat about this is because we thought that and we could get deeper into it so you can always reach out to us on our Discord which metal plug or you can reach out to us on IG or whatever but there's a lot of different strategies I didn't want to nerd out too hard. But there's a lot of depth to what kind of weed you're trying to grow and what your goals are for it right and how you want to feed it and how you want to treat it and it matters you know and so don't just look online at someone you think is killing it and just feel like oh I figured it all out enough to ask me more questions I'm good I'll just replicate this one method I know all I need to know. Yeah because a lot of times there's a lot of issues with them you know so you know. So yeah I mean Matt I'm not very good at doing the plugs Matt do the plug on the Discord and the what not. You've got it so our Discord you have to go to Google type in Breeders Syndicate Patreon and that's how you find us. We have our Discord we have all kinds of additional features at the Discord that we can enjoy together we're always there shooting the shit talking fucking around posting pics just being obnoxious I mean I'm being obnoxious on there I try to be as obnoxious as I can't be. And we have rightcco.com I promise I'm going to get the Hawaiian lights hybrids up there's only three up right now we're having problems figuring out why they weren't displaying and hopefully though that's fixed I think so hopefully those will be up there and you can grab this weekend my apologies for being late a week or two weeks maybe I think. What else is there. Speak easy seatbake all of our friends are on there to check it out the support and I'll plug to after years of not dealing with it I my follower list. And I accepted thousands of new people I also rejected a shit ton of people so if you got rejected maybe who knows maybe I was in a bad mood maybe you didn't have enough posts maybe whatever you can always message me and say hey dude I listen at me. You know I'll try to keep up on it from now on we're going to try to create more content. Basically we're just trying to shoot the shit about culture history and growing better wheat. Yeah and so you can always ask us questions you can always hit us up on IG if you have ideas for shows that you might want to talk about maybe it takes us a while to get them but you know we want to talk about what you want to hear you know and and so you know some of it will be can be user generated you can always ask us longer questions and get better responses on the discourse you know and we talk about various subjects and things like that and it's easier it's easy to get there so you know we're trying to do our best we're trying to do a little different podcast than most or you know live or whatever and just basically like you know just have it be like a little bit about culture and life and growing in a mix so yep you know thank everyone for listening on their Friday night we'll be back again same time same place all that yep and you have anything to add no I think that's it well everyone have a great Friday night thank you so much enjoy your evening